I-344 I-240 I-335 Signage

[jdingus]

Have they begun to put up the new signs?

[FakeMikeMorgan]

Not yet

[halork]

Anybody seen any of this new signage yet? Or are there any plans to get it done?

[Bobby5280]

Haven't seen anything. Considering the blatantly idiotic official ends of I-240 and I-335 at a friggin' partial exit to a surface street, I hope the routes don't get signed any time soon -if ever at all. I don't agree with the route number choices (344 and 335 are stupid) either.

[SoonerCowboy]

Haven't seen anything. Considering the blatantly idiotic official ends of I-240 and I-335 at a friggin' partial exit to a surface street, I hope the routes don't get signed any time soon -if ever at all. I don't agree with the route number choices (344 and 335 are stupid) either.

I agree. I think that I-240 should end where it currently ends, I-344 should be saved for Lawton or Tulsa, and I-335 should not be used until the Kickapoo connects with I-35 through the south extension.

[Scott5114]

Haven't seen anything. Considering the blatantly idiotic official ends of I-240 and I-335 at a friggin' partial exit to a surface street, I hope the routes don't get signed any time soon -if ever at all. I don't agree with the route number choices (344 and 335 are stupid) either.

I agree. I think that I-240 should end where it currently ends, I-344 should be saved for Lawton or Tulsa, and I-335 should not be used until the Kickapoo connects with I-35 through the south extension.

Why stop there? I-240 is redundant to OK-3 so it should be saved for Memphis, I-235 and I-35 are redundant to US-77 so they should be saved for Wichita, and I-40 and I-44 should be US-66 and US-266.

[Bobby5280]

Why stop there? I-240 is redundant to OK-3 so it should be saved for Memphis, I-235 and I-35 are redundant to US-77 so they should be saved for Wichita, and I-40 and I-44 should be US-66 and US-266.

Uh, ha ha.

My complaint is still valid. We already have an OK-344 route assigned to the Gilcrease Turnpike. That is what should have ended up being I-344. Instead they're doing this duplicate nonsense, allowing a 344 turnpike route in Tulsa and a 344 turnpike route in OKC.

Again, this theme of using 3xx numbers for turnpike designations is very short-sighted. And if they were going to use Interstate numbers in this scheme it would have been better to use an I-340 number in OKC rather than "burn" the only designation Tulsa could have used. Or does the OTA think they'll be able to get designations like "I-364" and "I-351" approved? I don't even know how they're going to get the Tri-City Connector and East-West Connector signed (unless they want to route I-344 over both of them).

I don't mind the I-335 designation on the Kickapoo Turnpike as much as I dislike I-344 on the Kilpatrick. Still, it should have been an even-numbered route. "I-440" would have made perfect sense for the Kilpatrick (since it connects to both I-44 and I-40).

[english si]

the only designation Tulsa could have used.

I-342 is available...

Though I agree with the general principle that the 3xx numbers for toll roads in Oklahoma was not a good idea, and has been executed even more terribly.

[jdingus]

I drove the Creek Turnpike the other day (SH-364) shouldn't it have an I-XXX designation?

[english si]

I drove the Creek Turnpike the other day (SH-364) shouldn't it have an I-XXX designation?

The 64 is from US64, it links to I-44 at both ends, I-644 would be perfect as it has both numbers involved. However it's got to be 3xx as OK is strange about its non I-44 Turnpikes and their numbers.

(It doesn't have to have an I-xxx designation, but as Oklahoma is going for blue-and-white shields on most of the other Turnpikes, its strange that the Creek Turnpike isn't getting them)

[Scott5114]

Again, this theme of using 3xx numbers for turnpike designations is very short-sighted.

I think it's fine, as Oklahoma only has, what, 12, 13 turnpikes, so they'd still have eighty-odd 3xx numbers to use. It's maybe a bit silly to involve Interstates in it, but whatever, it's far from the largest numbering atrocities ODOT has committed (I'm far more okay with that than whatever the hell is going on with OK-77S, OK-77D, and OK-63A, burning two-digit routes on things like OK-96 and OK-42, and so on).

Still, it should have been an even-numbered route.

The first-digit even/odd rule for 3dis has gotten to be interpreted so many different ways by so many different DOTs that at this point I feel like it's lost all meaning.

[Bobby5280]

I drove the Creek Turnpike the other day (SH-364) shouldn't it have an I-XXX designation?

It might be able to use the "I-342" designation if/when I-42 is signed over portions of US-412 in Oklahoma. No other possible Interstate number designations would be available as long as OTA sticks to that I-3XX scheme. Can't use "I-340" in the Tulsa metro.

I think it's fine, as Oklahoma only has, what, 12, 13 turnpikes, so they'd still have eighty-odd 3xx numbers to use.

There wouldn't be a problem IF they had restricted that 3xx numbering theme to State highway numbers. Their act of including Interstate numbers in the scheme is what makes it so idiotic. The sheer idiocy is doubled having separate OK-344 and I-344 routes little more than an hour's drive apart along I-44.

The first-digit even/odd rule for 3dis has gotten to be interpreted so many different ways by so many different DOTs that at this point I feel like it's lost all meaning.

Even though the "rule" has been compromised more than a few times the even/odd rule still maintains a general understanding. Either way, "I-440" would have made infinitely more logical sense being applied to the Kilpatrick Turnpike than I-344. The strange numbering choice just smells like political malfeasance. I can easily imagine it being some jerk politician in the OKC region taking the I-344 number just to keep the Tulsa area from having it, despite the Gilcrease Expressway already being signed as OK-344.

[Scott5114]

Their act of including Interstate numbers in the scheme is what makes it so idiotic.

Explain how. They are all just numbers.

Even though the "rule" has been compromised more than a few times the even/odd rule still maintains a general understanding.

So is the reason I don't understand it because I'm not a general? Does a captain understand it? How about a major?

In any event, there are enough exceptions to the rule that it imparts no useful knowledge. That makes it not really much of a rule.

[Bobby5280]

Explain how. They are all just numbers.

The problem is pretty easy to understand. There are currently only 3 possible, plausible Interstate 3XX routes for turnpikes in Oklahoma (4 if the I-42 thing actually happens). Oklahoma has considerably more turnpikes that can potentially be signed as Interstates than that. If the ACCESS Oklahoma program is completed the state will have even more.

Even just sticking to the "I-3XX" theme it would have made more sense to use "I-340" in the OKC metro and leave "I-344" for Tulsa. The "deciders" can't even manage something logical like that. Probably some guy in the state government had to exercise his inner-asshole and stick it to the Tulsa area by stealing that number for OKC.

With as stupid as Oklahoma's state lawmakers can be I would not be surprised if they made OTA reps apply to the federal government to get designations like "I-364" or "I-375."

[The Ghostbuster]

I am surprised that the state went the Interstate route for the John Kilpatrick and Kickapoo Turnpikes instead of giving them state highway designations like they recently gave the other toll roads in the state. The John Kilpatrick could have been OK 335 or OK 352, and the Kickapoo could have been OK 340. I am okay with the Kickapoo being Interstate 335 assuming the extension to Interstate 35 is eventually constructed, although my preferred numbers for Interstate 344 would have been Interstate 440 or Interstate 644. Alas, the Interstate 240 extension, and the Interstate 335 and Interstate 344 designations are set in stone, so we'll have to accept that those are now their designations.

[Henry]

Explain how. They are all just numbers.

The problem is pretty easy to understand. There are currently only 3 possible, plausible Interstate 3XX routes for turnpikes in Oklahoma (4 if the I-42 thing actually happens). Oklahoma has considerably more turnpikes that can potentially be signed as Interstates than that. If the ACCESS Oklahoma program is completed the state will have even more.

Even just sticking to the "I-3XX" theme it would have made more sense to use "I-340" in the OKC metro and leave "I-344" for Tulsa. The "deciders" can't even manage something logical like that. Probably some guy in the state government had to exercise his inner-asshole and stick it to the Tulsa area by stealing that number for OKC.

With as stupid as Oklahoma's state lawmakers can be I would not be surprised if they made OTA reps apply to the federal government to get designations like "I-364" or "I-375."

That's not surprising, considering that they have the worst-looking signs in the field (especially the nightmarishly terrible text, shield and arrow placement). Now they have to make equally bad numbering schemes too? I can see how they want to reserve 300-series numbers for their toll roads, but this is irresponsible thinking on their part.

(In a perfect world, Tulsa would get an I-350 spur off I-50; however, that may never be realized, especially now that I-42 is going to take over the US 412 corridor one day.)

[Molandfreak]

Can't use "I-340" in the Tulsa metro.

They could renumber the Muskogee Turnpike

[Scott5114]

The problem is pretty easy to understand. There are currently only 3 possible, plausible Interstate 3XX routes for turnpikes in Oklahoma (4 if the I-42 thing actually happens). Oklahoma has considerably more turnpikes that can potentially be signed as Interstates than that. If the ACCESS Oklahoma program is completed the state will have even more.

So why do all of the turnpikes need Interstate designations if some of them do? After all, for decades Oklahoma had three turnpikes with Interstate designations and seven without and that worked just fine.

[Bobby5280]

I'm not saying all of Oklahoma's turnpikes need Interstate designations. What I'm talking about is the "theme" ODOT and OTA is apparently trying to apply with 3-digit routes only starting in the number 3. It's just stupid. Using state highway numbers wasn't a problem since there are 99 potential route numbers that can be used.

Even though the turnpikes don't really need Interstate numbers the act of OTA placing Interstate designations on a couple turnpikes (Kilpatrick, Kickapoo) certainly does open the door of possibility for it to happen with other turnpikes. Why should the Kilpatrick Turnpike be given an Interstate number, but not the East-West Connector Turnpike? It can go on and on from there since Interstate routes are seen as "superior" to state highway routes. If OTA has to apply Interstate labels to more turnpikes they're going to be trapped since they painted themselves into a corner with the "I-3XX" template.

Interstate route numbers in Oklahoma should not be following that "I-3XX" model. They're going to have to be more flexible. Otherwise we could get crazy shit like "I-3344" applied to the East-West Connector Turnpike.

[Scott5114]

I'm not saying all of Oklahoma's turnpikes need Interstate designations. What I'm talking about is the "theme" ODOT and OTA is apparently trying to apply with 3-digit routes only starting in the number 3. It's just stupid. Using state highway numbers wasn't a problem since there are 99 potential route numbers that can be used.

Even though the turnpikes don't really need Interstate numbers the act of OTA placing Interstate designations on a couple turnpikes (Kilpatrick, Kickapoo) certainly does open the door of possibility for it to happen with other turnpikes. Why should the Kilpatrick Turnpike be given an Interstate number, but not the East-West Connector Turnpike? It can go on and on from there since Interstate routes are seen as "superior" to state highway routes. If OTA has to apply Interstate labels to more turnpikes they're going to be trapped since they painted themselves into a corner with the "I-3XX" template.

Interstate route numbers in Oklahoma should not be following that "I-3XX" model. They're going to have to be more flexible. Otherwise we could get crazy shit like "I-3344" applied to the East-West Connector Turnpike.

I am not seeing any reason why all of the turnpikes can't have 3xx numbers, some of which are interstates and the rest of which are state highways, though. It is not as though using I-335 for the Kickapoo Turnpike means that the east-west connector cannot be OK-337.

Presumably the reason why I-344 and I-335 got Interstate numbers is because someone thought they were more important. Or because Richard was responsible for coming up with the Tulsa area numbers and Clark was responsible for the OKC numbers. Or whatever.

I sort of hope we somehow get a US-362 out of this just because it seems like it would annoy everyone.

[The Ghostbuster]

I would have been okay with the John Kilpatrick and the Kickapoo Turnpikes remaining unnumbered. However, it appears the days of Oklahoma's toll roads having no State or Interstate Highway designations have passed. We will just have to accept the designations each tollroad has been given, even if it personally gives us indigestion. At least they're not as bad as Interstates 99 and 238.

[abqtraveler]

Why stop there? I-240 is redundant to OK-3 so it should be saved for Memphis, I-235 and I-35 are redundant to US-77 so they should be saved for Wichita, and I-40 and I-44 should be US-66 and US-266.

Uh, ha ha.

My complaint is still valid. We already have an OK-344 route assigned to the Gilcrease Turnpike. That is what should have ended up being I-344. Instead they're doing this duplicate nonsense, allowing a 344 turnpike route in Tulsa and a 344 turnpike route in OKC.

Again, this theme of using 3xx numbers for turnpike designations is very short-sighted. And if they were going to use Interstate numbers in this scheme it would have been better to use an I-340 number in OKC rather than "burn" the only designation Tulsa could have used. Or does the OTA think they'll be able to get designations like "I-364" and "I-351" approved? I don't even know how they're going to get the Tri-City Connector and East-West Connector signed (unless they want to route I-344 over both of them).

I don't mind the I-335 designation on the Kickapoo Turnpike as much as I dislike I-344 on the Kilpatrick. Still, it should have been an even-numbered route. "I-440" would have made perfect sense for the Kilpatrick (since it connects to both I-44 and I-40).

It would have been more logical to make the Kilpatrick a continuation of I-240, since it would become a three-quarter loop around Oklahoma City.

[Bobby5280]

Initially they were going to sign the Kilpatrick Turnpike as I-240. But then they went too far, wanting I-240 to overlap parts of I-44 and I-40 so it could also be signed onto the Kickapoo Turnpike as well. While that idea was silly, it wasn't as bad as this current I-344/I-240 setup.

[US75A]

I noticed I-344 signs at the Northwest Expressway/JKT "intersection" this evening.   

 

[The Ghostbuster]

Keep us posted if any of you see any more new Interstate 240/335/344 signs.