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Should discussion about now-banned users occur?

Started by PNWRoadgeek, December 11, 2024, 08:29:32 PM

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Molandfreak

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2024, 01:49:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 01:23:00 PMWhat about discussions about annoying as heck users that haven't been banned but we all wish left the forum? Particularly one living in Phoenix?

We generally only ban someone for violating something on this list. We can't make a rule against people being annoying, because then I'd be banned.
So what about the constant abuse that I bring up? The user in question has not shown any indication of interest in changing his behavior, and even directly blames Rothman for the abusive things he does. IMO, that isn't a sign of someone worth keeping around.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PMAASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.


Scott5114

#51
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 13, 2024, 02:01:37 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2024, 01:49:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 01:23:00 PMWhat about discussions about annoying as heck users that haven't been banned but we all wish left the forum? Particularly one living in Phoenix?

We generally only ban someone for violating something on this list. We can't make a rule against people being annoying, because then I'd be banned.
So what about the constant abuse that I bring up? The user in question has not shown any indication of interest in changing his behavior, and even directly blames Rothman for the abusive things he does. IMO, that isn't a sign of someone worth keeping around.

We do address rules violations by means more fine-grained than a permanent ban. These measures are not publicly viewable because, in our experience, it generally leads to a better outcome when addressed privately.

Other means of enforcement available include warnings (which remain permanently attached to the user's account, so as to establish a pattern of behavior), requiring administrator approval of each post before it is publicly viewable, and muting (where the user is allowed to log in and view the forum but cannot post), and temporary bans. These give no indication that they have been enacted to anyone other than staff and the affected user.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 13, 2024, 02:01:01 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 01:55:17 PMIt's funny. Despite the discouragement of political content it's very clear how like most of the regular users on the forum voted.

How so?  Would you assume to know how I voted by how I reply to things? 
Not you but a lot of the ahem, more partisan posters.
My username has been outdated since August 2023 but I'm too lazy to change it

formulanone

Quote from: hbelkins on December 12, 2024, 11:31:29 AMAlso, quoting a Wikipedia item instead of an AA Road Wiki item? For shame...  :pan:  :bigass:

I suppose our NO TROLLS signage should have a black border and be sure to have a white background, but perhaps we need a Vienna Convention version, as well.

Scott5114

Quote from: formulanone on December 13, 2024, 02:07:41 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 12, 2024, 11:31:29 AMAlso, quoting a Wikipedia item instead of an AA Road Wiki item? For shame...  :pan:  :bigass:

I suppose our NO TROLLS signage should have a black border and be sure to have a white background, but perhaps we need a Vienna Convention version, as well.

You'll be happy to know that AARoads Wiki policies follow the Standard/Support/Guidance format used by the MUTCD.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Molandfreak

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2024, 02:06:00 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 13, 2024, 02:01:37 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2024, 01:49:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 01:23:00 PMWhat about discussions about annoying as heck users that haven't been banned but we all wish left the forum? Particularly one living in Phoenix?

We generally only ban someone for violating something on this list. We can't make a rule against people being annoying, because then I'd be banned.
So what about the constant abuse that I bring up? The user in question has not shown any indication of interest in changing his behavior, and even directly blames Rothman for the abusive things he does. IMO, that isn't a sign of someone worth keeping around.

We do address rules violations by means more fine-grained than a permanent ban. These measures are not publicly viewable because, in our experience, it generally leads to a better outcome when addressed privately.
What outcome was achieved from it then? He only posts less frequently. No apology or recognition of the problematic behavior that occurred.

SPUI was post restricted at the level of needing mod approval for each post just for calling someone "extremely dense." I would say that calling someone a tyrant and telling them to get a lobotomy is more abusive than that, but there was no indication that he received any level of post restriction for behavior like this. Just "problems with the moderation here."
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PMAASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

formulanone

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2024, 02:12:18 PM
Quote from: formulanone on December 13, 2024, 02:07:41 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 12, 2024, 11:31:29 AMAlso, quoting a Wikipedia item instead of an AA Road Wiki item? For shame...  :pan:  :bigass:

I suppose our NO TROLLS signage should have a black border and be sure to have a white background, but perhaps we need a Vienna Convention version, as well.

You'll be happy to know that AARoads Wiki policies follow the Standard/Support/Guidance format used by the MUTCD.

(Privately, I'm hoping it's ocassionally to an Oklahoman standard for those needing particular concessıo∩s.)

hbelkins

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 12, 2024, 04:20:39 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 12, 2024, 11:31:29 AMAlso, quoting a Wikipedia item instead of an AA Road Wiki item? For shame...

Part of our management strategy on AARW is to run it as rules-light as we feel like we can get away with. (Given your personal preferences in that regard, I'm sure you understand and could probably state good reasons for doing so far more eloquently than I could.) As a result, there was a lot of backend governance cruft we intentionally didn't copy over from Wikipedia. Unfortunately, that does mean we also didn't copy over the more philosophical stuff either.

I know. Just giving you a hard time.  :-D

Quote from: TheStranger on December 12, 2024, 04:51:11 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 12, 2024, 04:42:06 PMIt seems that the definitions of what boards are private are inconsistent. It doesn't make much sense for sports to be publicly available, but urban planning isn't. Urban planning seems more on the topic of a board than sports.

if I'm not mistaken, this is specifically to make sure most of the people who are coming here actually are interested in the roads part of the AARoads forum culture.

I used to be on the USENET misc.transport.road newsgroup many years ago and there were times urban planning debates would take over that particular discussion venue like crazy.

A lot of stuff got crossposted, leading to a lot of bleedover. MTR wasn't the target audience. Same for rec.autos.driving.
Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Rothman

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 13, 2024, 02:01:01 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 01:55:17 PMIt's funny. Despite the discouragement of political content it's very clear how like most of the regular users on the forum voted.

How so?  Would you assume to know how I voted by how I reply to things? 

You're totally a LaRouche supporter.  Every.  Single.  Election.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

hotdogPi

I still think my favorite banned user is a spambot that offered services to take the GRE for you, listing about 20 countries. Neither the US nor Canada was on the list.
Clinched

Traveled, plus
US 13, 50
MA 22, 35, 40, 53, 107, 109, 126, 141, 159
NH 27, 78, 111A(E); CA 90; NY 366; GA 42, 140; FL A1A, 7; CT 32, 320; VT 2A, 5A; PA 3, 51, 60, WA 202; QC 162, 165, 263; 🇬🇧A100, A3211, A3213, A3215, A4222; 🇫🇷95 D316

Lowest untraveled: 36

hbelkins

Quote from: Molandfreak on December 13, 2024, 01:34:35 PMOr users in Michigan who feel the need to call others tyrants, tell others to gouge out their frontal lobes, say that users from outside the Great Lakes/Ohio Valley region shouldn't be allowed to comment in that board, and spread unhelpful conspiracy theories about roundabouts being a government ploy to purposely waste taxpayer money.

I missed all this. Although I agree about roundabouts.  :D
Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

1995hoo

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 02:07:18 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 13, 2024, 02:01:01 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 13, 2024, 01:55:17 PMIt's funny. Despite the discouragement of political content it's very clear how like most of the regular users on the forum voted.

How so?  Would you assume to know how I voted by how I reply to things? 
Not you but a lot of the ahem, more partisan posters.

I'll ask the same question about myself. If you do make a guess, I'll be reluctant to explain why I voted the way I did—that would be political discussion—but I'll tell you whether you guessed correctly.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Scott5114

Quote from: Molandfreak on December 13, 2024, 02:16:34 PMWhat outcome was achieved from it then? He only posts less frequently. No apology or recognition of the problematic behavior that occurred.

We generally don't make those conditions of remaining in good standing because they are too readily faked. Instead, our goal is to simply curb the behavior from happening again.

I don't recall the particulars of how we resolved the situation at hand (as it took place in one of the boards I'm not regularly active in, I wasn't the point person on it), but looking into the documentation shows that it was indeed addressed. I won't give any further details because, as stated upthread, our general policy is to not discuss enforcement actions taken against any member with anyone other than staff and the member concerned.

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 13, 2024, 03:12:23 PMI'll be reluctant to explain why I voted the way I did—that would be political discussion—but I'll tell you whether you guessed correctly.

Oh God, you voted for Alan Dunes-Flamingo, didn't you? Was it the jacket? It was the jacket, wasn't it?
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Max Rockatansky

I hate Alan Dunes-Flamingo.  That said, how can I as person of reason be expected to vote against that ballin pink blazer?

Scott5114

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 13, 2024, 05:45:05 PMI hate Alan Dunes-Flamingo.  That said, how can I as person of reason be expected to vote against that ballin pink blazer?

A question we will all be asking ourselves as we see rattlesnake registration fees skyrocket in the new year, I'm sure.  :rolleyes:
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

formulanone

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2024, 05:53:08 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 13, 2024, 05:45:05 PMI hate Alan Dunes-Flamingo.  That said, how can I as person of reason be expected to vote against that ballin pink blazer?

A question we will all be asking ourselves as we see rattlesnake registration fees skyrocket in the new year, I'm sure.  :rolleyes:

Yeah, but the plans to repeal the Lawn Ornament Act trended popularly with a broad spectrum of age groups...until that incident with the dumbwaiter buzzer.

Scott5114

Quote from: formulanone on December 13, 2024, 06:12:43 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2024, 05:53:08 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 13, 2024, 05:45:05 PMI hate Alan Dunes-Flamingo.  That said, how can I as person of reason be expected to vote against that ballin pink blazer?

A question we will all be asking ourselves as we see rattlesnake registration fees skyrocket in the new year, I'm sure.  :rolleyes:

Yeah, but the plans to repeal the Lawn Ornament Act trended popularly with a broad spectrum of age groups...until that incident with the dumbwaiter buzzer.

I thought for sure his candidacy was sunk at that point. But I guess he actually was already here the entire time, after all.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Molandfreak

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2024, 05:37:52 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 13, 2024, 02:16:34 PMWhat outcome was achieved from it then? He only posts less frequently. No apology or recognition of the problematic behavior that occurred.

We generally don't make those conditions of remaining in good standing because they are too readily faked. Instead, our goal is to simply curb the behavior from happening again.

I don't recall the particulars of how we resolved the situation at hand (as it took place in one of the boards I'm not regularly active in, I wasn't the point person on it), but looking into the documentation shows that it was indeed addressed. I won't give any further details because, as stated upthread, our general policy is to not discuss enforcement actions taken against any member with anyone other than staff and the member concerned.
The problem is that according to the linked post, he gives no indication of understanding that his own behavior led to sanctions against him. He goes out of his way to blame the user he has a history of blowing disagreements way out of proportion with for his own actions. That level of tone deafness is unmatched by anyone else I have ever seen here. It's reasonable to conclude that he is chronically unable to participate in civil discussions or respectfully disagree with someone.

Anyway, this is the last post I'm going to make on the matter since the level of disclosure I had hoped to achieve was achieved. So thank you for the confirmation that this wasn't just swept under the rug.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PMAASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

PNWRoadgeek

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 13, 2024, 05:45:05 PMI hate Alan Dunes-Flamingo.  That said, how can I as person of reason be expected to vote against that ballin pink blazer?
I agree with you on that, I voted for Merritt again. Alan Merritt has been Grand Alan for as long as I can remember, and he's generally so much cooler of a person that Dunes-Flamingo.

Also, that pink suit. COME ON!
Applying for new Grand Alan.

Voyager

Quote from: PNWRoadgeek on December 13, 2024, 06:49:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 13, 2024, 05:45:05 PMI hate Alan Dunes-Flamingo.  That said, how can I as person of reason be expected to vote against that ballin pink blazer?
I agree with you on that, I voted for Merritt again. Alan Merritt has been Grand Alan for as long as I can remember, and he's generally so much cooler of a person that Dunes-Flamingo.

Also, that pink suit. COME ON!

Man...I missed ALL the inside jokes here.
AARoads Forum Original

kphoger

Quote from: Voyager on December 13, 2024, 07:07:18 PMMan...I missed ALL the inside jokes here.

To many professional pundits and armchair experts on the politics of Alanland, the meteoric rise of Grand Unified Alan Alan Dunes-Flamingo (F-UN) has been both surprising and refreshing.  His appearance on the political scene and the general tone of his candidacy have both been unlike those of any Grand Unified Alan in history.  It is therefore appropriate, as he was recently inaugurated less than a fortnight ago, to take a look back and ask oneself, 'How did we get here?'

Alan's father, Brady R. Dunes, was, to put it mildly, an eccentric person.  In the early 1970s, during the early days of the Eastern Unrest but before the Great Reluctance had gained any traction beyond far eastern Glenn Oaks Oblast, Brady was living in the now-infamous Shiratora House.  He had been shunned by his parents at age thirteen with no money or possessions to his name and, along with Felix Flood (cross-cousin of Sir Douglas Flood), was one of the original members of the first Shiratora Commune.  During the eight or nine years he lived there, Brady fathered eleven children by at least nine young women in the commune;  Alan Dunes was the oldest of those eleven, born in the basement of Shiratora House to Clara Browne when she was just fifteen years old.


Shiratora House, pre-renovation


Brady R. Dunes, age 24

As soon as Alan Dunes was old enough to legally enter the workforce, he spent nearly every waking moment working at whatever passion was filling his mind that particular month—or that particular week, or day.  Music composition, cobbling, fashion design, pastry, cabinetry, pottery, interpretive dance, vegetable gardening, confectionery, even competitive nose whistling:  wholeheartedly he threw himself at seemingly every lucrative pursuit known to man, and he failed miserably at them all.  On his thirty-fifth birthday, Alan fell into a state of deep depression.  As he told Alan Place during an APR interview in November, on that day he walked out of the flophouse apartment he was then living in, with the intent of committing suicide, but then he impulsively decided to walk into the Unerien Temple Hall—drawn by the soft glow of candles and the scent of Karo-drenched cinnamon rolls through the open door as he walked by.  He was immediately greeted by the temple Father, who recognized him by his trademark hot pink sport coat.  Alan confessed to the Father how all of his pursuits had ended in failure, that he didn't see any way forward in life, and that he had come to believe the world would be a better place if he were dead.  The Father placed his hand on Alan's shoulder and said, 'Those who cannot, supervise;  those who cannot supervise, go into politics."  And with that, he applied a Goat Jesus sticker to Alan's forehead and turned him back out onto the street.


Temple Hall, Shiratora, Unerie Oblast

Amazingly, Dunes took the Father's insensitive and inappropriate remark as genuine advice, and he immediately made it his life's ambition to become the next Grand Unified Alan.  With no clear reform agenda (as Alan Corcoran had had), with no success in the world of business (as Alan Torrington had achieved) and with no experience serving in the 3.14 Houses of Parliament (as Alan Register had done), Alan Dunes decided to run on a campaign unlike any before:  a campaign of kitsch.  Being initially ridiculed by all sides for his hot pink sport coat as 'Alan Flamingo', he immediately leaned in to embrace the moniker as his own.  He legally changed his name to Alan Dunes-Flamingo, ordered 500 plastic lawn flamingos, bought six more hot pink sport coats and neckties, and adopted the slogan Let's Go, Flamingo! for his campaign.  The following week, he purchased a sizeable collection of gold jewelry from various late-night TV ads, filed to register four separate pairs of rattlesnake boots, and commissioned the first official bobblehead in Grand Unified Alan campaign history.

Dunes-Flamingo eschewed live debates, as he has a mild phobia of public speaking and does not consider himself to be very eloquent anyway, and so he instead focused his energy and capital on what might best be described as campaign pranks.  He had a fleet of private couriers distribute the 500 lawn flamingos throughout Alanland's largest cities, along with a few goat-cartloads each of playground sand.  In a coordinated effort on October 4¾nd, 2024, under cover of darkness, 500 piles of sand were dumped into the middle of 500 intersections, and 500 pink plastic flamingos were installed in those sand piles along with signs proclaiming 'He Is Already Here!' in shadowed Curlz MT or Brush Script MT fonts.  This caper was reported by media outlets to have caused 'massive traffic jams throughout the country', but such was a gross exaggeration:  in reality, it was no more than a minor inconvenience, and the flamingo-topped 'sand dunes' were quickly and easily removed.  However, it was the reported chaos—overexaggerated or not—that actually propelled Dunes-Flamingo's campaign to the top.  For, seething just below the surface of millions of middle-aged housewives and ambitionless youth all across Alanland, there has existed a subconscious, unspoken, bitter rancor against the professional class—that is, against just the type of person who might get stuck in a morning traffic jam.  And a bunch of tacky lawn art was all it had taken to disrupt the world of that 'other half' against whom they held their simmering grudge.  Alan Dunes-Flamingo was now their man.  No boring politician was he, no modest star of the business world, but a man with a gold bracelet and rattlesnake boots and a cheesy Wednesday midmorning TV smile.  And, you know, 'He Is Already Here!"  Several segments of the population who had previously been unengaged in politics, who had previously turned out to vote in very low numbers, who had previously never had a candidate to call their own:  these suddenly became a democratic force—one that Dunes-Flamingo's rivals had no clue how to reckon with.


goat cart filled with sand, Pfpfafafpfpffflapfhaflesbororuouuuugghh, Pfafpff Oblast

So far, Dunes-Flamingo's campaign promises have very closely aligned with his constituents' values and priorities.  Price caps on staple items at Pfangle, abolishing tariffs on polyester and rayon, reinstating Thursdays, repealing Merritt's Lawn Ornament Act, and the legalization of sequins:  these early campaign promises have all cemented his popularity among both ends of the so-called Kitsch Klass.  Meanwhile, he hasn't once brought up the previously-all-consuming debate over mandating a 1½π-day workweek.  The only hiccup for him so far has been what APR cheekily refers to as the Dumb Dumb Event.  As readers will no doubt recall, this is when Alan Dunes-Flamingo allegedly used campaign funds to install an electric motor and automatic buzzer in the dumbwaiter at his half-sister Margaret's house.  Not only was the alleged act seen as a misuse of campaign funds, but, more importantly, it allowed his rivals to portray him as a rich boy whose family is too good to do any real domestic labor—even such a simple task as pulling on a dumbwaiter's rope.  Alan Corcoran, as he was heard muttering from inside his box, summed up the common sentiment fairly well:  "Dude, seriously, for real?"  Of course, Dunes-Flamingo's rivals quickly walked back their criticism when it came to light that Margaret is wheelchair-bound with limited use of  her arms, but analysts still worried that the damage to Dunes-Flamingo's reputation among his supporters would be too much to recover from.  Now that all legal charges have been dropped, though, and only the most conspiracy-happy Merrittites ever bring up the incident anymore, the general sense among political buffs is that the Dumb Dumb Event will come to be seen as nothing more than a bump in the road to Dunes-Flamingo's otherwise-untarnished widespread popularity and success.

And so the age of Tasteful Beige has, at least for now, given way to the age of hot pink.  After all, what slogan could possibly be more different from Beige Is Better than Let's Go, Flamingo!  By any metric, the pink tide shows no sign of turning anytime soon.  His constituent base is numerous, his appeal to them is unassailable, and he can seemingly do no wrong in their eyes.  Pink and flamingo-themed apparel and household items are filling Pfangle store shelves, and rattlesnake registration applications for the year have already exceeded the previous three years combined.  No matter what happens from here, one thing is certain:  a new day has dawned on Quindaro.  And to those conservatives who have been holding out hope that Alanland will return to the good old Beige Age, there is one clear and resounding message:  He Is Already Here!  Let's Go, Flamingo!
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

webny99

Wow. Welcome back, kphoger!

Back with a bang, but I wouldn't have expected anything less.  :biggrin:

Max Rockatansky

Karo-drenched cinnamon rolls always brighten my day.  No wonder the Dunes-Flamingo campaign had so much personal appeal.

Scott5114

Take notes, folks, that's how you make an entrance to the forum.

Welcome back, @kphoger , and well done.  :D
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

PNWRoadgeek

New Alanland Lore! What a way to come back to the forum!
Applying for new Grand Alan.



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