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I-45 south of Houston expansion plans

Started by MaxConcrete, October 24, 2015, 03:27:39 PM

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TXtoNJ

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 06, 2018, 09:40:02 PM
Sorry, I'm not familiar with Houston much, why is the Pierce removal bad?

It's not, but roadgeeks.


Bobby5280

Removing the Pierce Elevated structure on the Southwest side of Downtown Houston would make it easier to revitalize run down parts of the Midtown district. When you get on the other side of the Pierce Elevated from downtown there is a fair amount of run down property.

Maybe one of the long term goals is for Downtown Houston to grow to the Southwest toward Museum Park and the Medical Center district with its own collection of skyscrapers. Of course I can predict anti-freeway types to start campaigning for the removal of the aging I-69 elevated freeway from West of the TX-288 interchange to the TX-527 spur. But that particular freeway segment needs to be expanded rather than deleted.

TXtoNJ

Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 08, 2018, 12:41:16 PM
Removing the Pierce Elevated structure on the Southwest side of Downtown Houston would make it easier to revitalize run down parts of the Midtown district. When you get on the other side of the Pierce Elevated from downtown there is a fair amount of run down property.

Maybe one of the long term goals is for Downtown Houston to grow to the Southwest toward Museum Park and the Medical Center district with its own collection of skyscrapers. Of course I can predict anti-freeway types to start campaigning for the removal of the aging I-69 elevated freeway from West of the TX-288 interchange to the TX-527 spur. But that particular freeway segment needs to be expanded rather than deleted.

It's being sunk below grade as part of this project. Long term, it will likely have a cap put on it. But I don't think any expansion will ever happen. Urban freeways are congested; that's just how it is.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: TXtoNJ on June 07, 2018, 02:21:59 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 06, 2018, 09:40:02 PM
Sorry, I'm not familiar with Houston much, why is the Pierce removal bad?

It's not, but roadgeeks.
Looking at streetview and the plans to accommodate more traffic on existing freeways, this seems like a good plan and could help expand Houston's CBD to have a larger footprint.

Bobby5280

Quote from: TXtoNJIt's being sunk below grade as part of this project. Long term, it will likely have a cap put on it. But I don't think any expansion will ever happen. Urban freeways are congested; that's just how it is.

That's the first I've heard of that section of I-69 being included in the massive I-45 re-routing project downtown. I thought that project started in the vicinity of the I-45/I-69/TX-288 interchange on the South corner of downtown and then going around the East and North sides of downtown.

The current elevated section of I-69 from the TX-527 split to the TX-288 interchange is only 3 lanes in each direction. It's a fairly serious bottleneck. Just West of the TX-527 split I-69 expands out to 5 lanes in each direction, plus a reversible HOV Lane (in a trench for about a mile).

If they do put that 6-lane section of I-69 into a trench I hope they can make the road at least 4 or 5 lanes wide in each direction. I'm sure such a road would still be congested. But it would be stupidly ridiculous for TX DOT to rebuild that section of freeway in a trench and still make it only 6 lanes wide. They should add at least some additional traffic capacity for all that effort. I think it's completely possible such a road could have a decorative cap with green space and even some buildings built over the top of it. That could set up a long term situation for Houston's downtown to grow Southwest all the way to the Astrodome and NRG Stadium.

The only thing I don't like about freeways in trenches in the Houston area: flooding potential.

TXtoNJ

Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 09, 2018, 12:48:00 PM
Quote from: TXtoNJIt's being sunk below grade as part of this project. Long term, it will likely have a cap put on it. But I don't think any expansion will ever happen. Urban freeways are congested; that's just how it is.

That's the first I've heard of that section of I-69 being included in the massive I-45 re-routing project downtown. I thought that project started in the vicinity of the I-45/I-69/TX-288 interchange on the South corner of downtown and then going around the East and North sides of downtown.

The current elevated section of I-69 from the TX-527 split to the TX-288 interchange is only 3 lanes in each direction. It's a fairly serious bottleneck. Just West of the TX-527 split I-69 expands out to 5 lanes in each direction, plus a reversible HOV Lane (in a trench for about a mile).

If they do put that 6-lane section of I-69 into a trench I hope they can make the road at least 4 or 5 lanes wide in each direction. I'm sure such a road would still be congested. But it would be stupidly ridiculous for TX DOT to rebuild that section of freeway in a trench and still make it only 6 lanes wide. They should add at least some additional traffic capacity for all that effort. I think it's completely possible such a road could have a decorative cap with green space and even some buildings built over the top of it. That could set up a long term situation for Houston's downtown to grow Southwest all the way to the Astrodome and NRG Stadium.

The only thing I don't like about freeways in trenches in the Houston area: flooding potential.

The below grade portion will have five lanes in each direction: http://ih45northandmore.com/docs9/20180521_NHHIP_Seg3_Overview_Layout_PH_1-1.pdf

As stated before, after this project, I don't see there being any further expansion.

MaxConcrete

The new connection ramp at 45 and IH 69 on the southeast side of downtown is proceeding well. It will be a long, high-flying ramp.
Photo taken 9-June-2018
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

US 89

Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 09, 2018, 12:48:00 PM
The only thing I don't like about freeways in trenches in the Houston area: flooding potential.

That's done on purpose. If it's going to rain a lot, you'd rather it flood a freeway than somebody's house.

nolia_boi504

As much of a pain it was for the Beltway to be shutdown after nearly a month Harvey due to drainage and repairs, imagine how many homes were saved because this massive volume of water was retained! IIRC, homes in this area still had about 3-4ft of water inside!

The parks and highways here are made to hold water. I don't understand why the media doesn't get that. I can't imagine any other city handling this much rain better than Houston did the last 3 major rain events. Sandy? Katrina? Neither we're nearly as much rain in such a short period...

Nexus 5X


TXtoNJ

The media doesn't get that because they're in the business of drawing your attention, and seeing your daily commute blocked by millions of gallons of water gets a whole lot of people's attention.

nolia_boi504



Quote from: MaxConcrete on June 10, 2018, 11:50:14 PM
The new connection ramp at 45 and IH 69 on the southeast side of downtown is proceeding well. It will be a long, high-flying ramp.
Photo taken 9-June-2018


The Swamplot article below has some more photos and gives some details on the ramp. It also mentions a "glimpse" of the 45 downtown rebuild. How does this ramp fit into the total rebuild? Will this become the northbound connector to the new configuration parallel to 59/69?

http://swamplot.com/new-northbound-45-flyover-to-59-portends-east-side-future/2018-06-11/

Nexus 5X


MaxConcrete

#36
Quote from: nolia_boi504 on June 11, 2018, 05:30:37 PM
How does this ramp fit into the total rebuild? Will this become the northbound connector to the new configuration parallel to 59/69?

I was told that it is designed to be compatible with the overall rebuild plan. The only potential non-compatible part is the end which dips into IH-69 trench. It may need to be razed to be repositioned.

Looking at the schematic and the existing design, it does appear that the current ramp lands too close to the middle of the trench, and the the landing position will need to be shifted westward. The schematic does not appear to indicate a radius change, so it is unclear how much of the west end would need to be rebuilt, but it will probably be between 500 and 1000 feet.
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

MaxConcrete

The ramp shown in the foreground of the photo below is now open, Tweet is shown.

https://twitter.com/TxDOTHoustonPIO/status/1023592507035328513


Quote from: MaxConcrete on June 10, 2018, 11:50:14 PM
The new connection ramp at 45 and IH 69 on the southeast side of downtown is proceeding well. It will be a long, high-flying ramp.
Photo taken 9-June-2018

www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

nolia_boi504

#38
Connection to I-69SB to start soon...expected completion March 2019

http://abc13.com/traffic/txdot-connector-ramp-from-gulf-fwy-to-i-69-northbound-open/3658062/

MaxConcrete

#39
Bids were opened today for the next segment in the ongoing widening to 4x4 between Houston and Galveston. This segment is south of Texas City, and will take the widening to within 6.5 miles of the Galveston Causeway.

The bid opening says it is for 6.79 miles, but looking at the plans online and plotting in Google maps shows the limits are only 3.4 miles, which makes the cost $43 million per mile, just about the same as the recently-awarded adjacent section. Unfortunately the bid is 12.4% above estimate, an overrun which seems to be expected lately and also indicative of more inflation, which will reduce the amount of projects which can be built. This is actually one of the lower overruns percent-wise this month, for example see http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/08073202.htm

Since Williams Brothers is already working on the adjacent segments, it appears that none of the other bidders attempted to submit a competitive bid, with all other bids way above the estimate.

County:   GALVESTON   Let Date:   08/07/19
Type:   WIDEN FREEWAY   Seq No:   3201
Time:   1500 WORKING DAYS   Project ID:   NH 1902(105)
Highway:   IH 45   Contract #:   08193201
Length:   6.790   CCSJ:   0500-04-105
Limits:   
From:   SOUTH OF FM 1764   Check:   $100,000
To:   NORTH OF FM 519   Misc Cost:   $855,000.00
Estimate   $147,513,606.06   % Over/Under   Company
Bidder 1   $165,825,006.99   +12.41%   WILLIAMS BROTHERS CONSTRUCTION CO., INC.
Bidder 2   $197,995,615.66   +34.22%   JOHNSON BROS. CORPORATION, A SOUTHLAND COMPANY
Bidder 3   $211,258,240.34   +43.21%   BALFOUR BEATTY INFRASTRUCTURE, INC.
Bidder 4   $243,651,855.95   +65.17%   FLUOR HEAVY CIVIL, LLC[/size]

www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

MaxConcrete

#40
Update on the upper-level ramp shown in this photo: the ramp opened to traffic around around June 16.

www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

longhorn

What was the point behind the rebuild?


thisdj78

#42
Quote from: longhorn on August 08, 2019, 10:57:30 AM
What was the point behind the rebuild?

Looks like it was to create a better traffic flow. That area was always bottlenecked from people trying to merge and exit to 59/69 south or north. Now that the exit is much further south, it reduces that congestion (in theory)


thisdj78

Quote from: longhorn on August 08, 2019, 02:41:25 PM
Quote from: MaxConcrete on March 07, 2018, 11:26:54 AM
Work is proceeding on the new connection ramps at IH 610(s) and IH 45. These ramps will be very long.

http://dallasfreeways.com/dfwfreeways/AARoads/20180306_288_45-0042_1600.jpg


http://dallasfreeways.com/dfwfreeways/AARoads/20180306_288_45-0049_1600.jpg


http://dallasfreeways.com/dfwfreeways/AARoads/20180306_288_45-0045_1600.jpg

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.703523,-95.2976729,3a,75y,307.55h,95.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sy4FvP5w7EiWjDJ5hmWXoGw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Wow, thats long, would love to know what computer modeling shows this eases congestion.

I was referring to the 45/59 interchange earlier. Were you asking about the new ramps being built at 610/45? I think they are long for similar reasons, to create a merge point further north to eliminate a bottleneck. Also, it's a tight turn from 610 east to 45N...a longer ramp is probably needed for safety.

jlwm

Quote from: thisdj78 on August 08, 2019, 12:43:45 PM
Quote from: longhorn on August 08, 2019, 10:57:30 AM
What was the point behind the rebuild?

Looks like it was to create a better traffic flow. That area was always bottlenecked from people trying to merge and exit to 59/69 south or north. Now that the exit is much further south, it reduces that congestion (in theory)

There's still some congestion in that area where the old ramps used to be. But now, it's caused by I-45 going from 3 to 2 mainlanes just past the Downtown exit instead of it being caused by drivers weaving to get over to the now moved US59/I-69/SH288 South exit. The new ramps do make it easier to get to US59/I-69 and 288 from I-45 NB though, which I suppose may have been the main goal.

MaxConcrete

The new connection ramp from eastbound 610 to northbound IH 45 is now open. This is the super-long ramp. I'll check it out this weekend and get the length.
It appears that the southbound IH 45 to westbound IH 610 is not yet open. The article says the project will be complete in Q2 2021, which seems somewhat far in the future since the SB-WB ramp looked close to completion when I was there about a month ago.

https://houston.culturemap.com/news/city-life/06-02-20-610-south-loop-45-gulf-freeway-interchange-connecter-eastbound-complete-txdot/

www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

Chris

That ramp appears to be around 9,400 ft / 1.78 miles long. It makes you wonder if this is the longest ramp in Texas.


longhorn

Isn't the whole south I-45/610 stack due for replacement?

MaxConcrete

Quote from: longhorn on June 05, 2020, 09:48:28 AM
Isn't the whole south I-45/610 stack due for replacement?

TxDOT has just launched a new study of the IH-45 corridor section which includes this interchange, and the first round of input took place in July. This study will likely determine if this interchange will be improved. Since it is probably infeasible to widen the corridor right-of-way, interchange and intersection improvements are likely candidates for being recommended.

https://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/get-involved/about/hearings-meetings/houston/071620.html

I submitted comments in favor of elevated express lanes through the congested areas around the Loop 610 interchange, and also improvements to congested connections at the interchange, especially 610 EB to 45 SB.
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com



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