TX 130 southern extension to open in October

[wxfree]

According to this page: http://www.txtag.org/sh_130.php Sections 5 and 6 of Highway 130 are scheduled to open October 24.  They plan to have free trial from then until November 10.  I plan to make my way south sometime during the free period to get a feel for the road.  I have a TxTag and reluctantly use toll roads when they seem to be a good value (which isn't often), but I'm not eager to support this for-profit road.  As far as I can tell, toll rates have yet to be determined.

[wxfree]

http://www.mysh130.com/segments-5-6/toll-rates/

When they start charging the toll, it'll cost $6.17 to drive a car the length of the road, which comes to about 15 cents per mile.  Without a tag, it'll cost $8.51.  This is about the same rate as the northern 4 sections after the increase next year. A regular 18-wheeler will cost $24.58, $28.32 without a tag.

This appears to be just about the maximum rate allowed under the contract, 12.5 cents per mile adjusted for 2006 dollars.  I'm surprised they're going for such a high rate right from the start, since this road has no user base.  It's almost like they don't want people driving on it.

[Chris]

France has some interesting test cases which make clear that high tolls on rural routes do not attract much traffic, even if it is a time-saver. 15 cents per mile for a rural freeway is quite high compared to the older turnpikes in Oklahoma for example.

[wxfree]

France has some interesting test cases which make clear that high tolls on rural routes do not attract much traffic, even if it is a time-saver. 15 cents per mile for a rural freeway is quite high compared to the older turnpikes in Oklahoma for example.

I have no problem stopping on the H. E. Bailey to throw six quarters in the basket on the way to the Wichita Mountains, even though it involves stopping.  I find it to be a reasonable cost.  I even use some NTTA roads at 15.3 cents per mile, for short distances that add up to low totals, as well as MoPac in Austin.

When the CTTS tolls increase next year, the biggest increase will be on 45N and Loop 1, the short roads.  The increase will be 50%.  SH 130 tolls will increase only 25%.  This is a step in the right direction, with longer sections having lower rates.  But 15 cents per mile is too much for 90 miles of rural road with limited short-trip potential.

[texaskdog]

I tried "pay by mail" and they charged me $24 instead of the $1.25 it should have been so I'm done with toll roads.

[rte66man]

I tried "pay by mail" and they charged me $24 instead of the $1.25 it should have been so I'm done with toll roads.

Am I understanding you correctly that it was $1.25 for the toll and 22.75 for a "service charge"?

rte66man

[InterstateNG]

Or 22.75 for a late fee.

[kphoger]

I tried "pay by mail" and they charged me $24 instead of the $1.25 it should have been so I'm done with toll roads.

Am I understanding you correctly that it was $1.25 for the toll and 22.75 for a "service charge"?

rte66man

Or 22.75 for a late fee.

Either way, it just adds credence to my distrust of pay-by-mail.  I go cash whenever possible.
It's for this reason that I still take I-35 straight through Austin.

[wxfree]

Either way, it just adds credence to my distrust of pay-by-mail.  I go cash whenever possible.
It's for this reason that I still take I-35 straight through Austin.

I wonder if they'll lose any business by raising rates (which were already too high on 130) and eliminating cash payment.  Before I had a TxTag (I'm cheap, and I prefer to save the 15 cents), I paid in cash because I also distrust pay-by-mail.  The number of people choosing cash payment is highest on 130, close to 10%, and I think 5 to 7 percent on 45 and MoPac.  Some will either get tags or bills, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few percent just stop driving on the roads.

[InterstateNG]

Either way, it just adds credence to my distrust of pay-by-mail.  I go cash whenever possible.
It's for this reason that I still take I-35 straight through Austin.

Let's go with the scenario that it was late, and so late that it caused collections to get involved, thus incurring the large late fee.  That's the toll company's fault?  And if its a clerical error, it's an easy fix, particularly with a paper trail.  How about some effort or responsibility?

Whatever, let whatever conspiracy theories one may have about paying by mail or transponders keep you choked in traffic on 35.  You'll be out of my way.

[Road Hog]

NTTA won't even mess with sending out a bill lower than $10. They'll wait until you build up enough of a charge to make mailing a bill worth it. I drove on the Dallas North Tollway in June, for instance, and I had unbilled tolls from two previous trips on the statement.

[texaskdog]

I tried "pay by mail" and they charged me $24 instead of the $1.25 it should have been so I'm done with toll roads.

Am I understanding you correctly that it was $1.25 for the toll and 22.75 for a "service charge"?

rte66man

Yes they said if your tag doesn't have money you can pay by mail and I guess I went over.  I paid the 25 cents then got another bill for $24.  Last toll road I ever drive on.

[InterstateNG]

Should have had auto pay.

[texaskdog]

Should have had auto pay.

I just didn't have auto reload.  If you drop below $10 they take another $20.  So if you're at $9.99 they then have $29.99 of your money tied up.  I lived on the south end of the toll road that heads north out of town, and then we moved to Central Austin so was going to let it go anyway.  Went through the pay by mail lane too.  They won't talk to you as they treat you like bill collectors do.

[kphoger]

Either way, it just adds credence to my distrust of pay-by-mail.  I go cash whenever possible.
It's for this reason that I still take I-35 straight through Austin.

Let's go with the scenario that it was late, and so late that it caused collections to get involved, thus incurring the large late fee.  That's the toll company's fault?  And if its a clerical error, it's an easy fix, particularly with a paper trail.  How about some effort or responsibility?

Whatever, let whatever conspiracy theories one may have about paying by mail or transponders keep you choked in traffic on 35.  You'll be out of my way.

Conspiracy theory?  The toll road authority gets your information from the DMV, right?  This past year, Kansas' DMV switched computer programs and caused a huge mess.  My notice to renew my tags was sent to a house I haven't lived at since 2009; the only reason I even got it is because my parents still live there.  If I were to use pay-by-mail, who knows where that bill will end up?

[InterstateNG]

Presumably at your parents house.

[kphoger]

Presumably at your parents house.

Well, yeah, for me, but what about for other people?
What if my parents didn't still live there?
What if the DMV had had the address I lived at in between instead of my folks'?

No thanks, I'd rather not leave it to the DMV to have my correct information; I said that before this year's debacle, and it was just all the more reinforced.

[Chris]

What is the expected AADT on SH 130? It's rural, it connects no large cities directly, so I presume it would be used mostly by traffic avoiding I-35 and the occasional thrill-seeker to drive NASCAR speeds - as some media outlets put it. I don't think this part of SH 130 will see a lot of traffic until Austin's suburbs will grow to the southeast.

[wxfree]

What is the expected AADT on SH 130? It's rural, it connects no large cities directly, so I presume it would be used mostly by traffic avoiding I-35 and the occasional thrill-seeker to drive NASCAR speeds - as some media outlets put it. I don't think this part of SH 130 will see a lot of traffic until Austin's suburbs will grow to the southeast.

I'd like to know that, too.  The section from Lockhart northward has continuous frontage roads on US 183.  Unless they intentionally foul the traffic flow, the frontage roads have no stops, so there's no reason to pay for that section of toll road.  Of course, eventually the area will develop, but who knows how long that'll take?

From what I understand, this road was intended to connect to the Trans-Texas Corridor, facilitating a connection between I-10 and TTC-35, or possibly becoming part of TTC-35.  Since the corridor's been cancelled, it's now just part of a bypass.  The southern portion doesn't even bypass Austin, which is where the real traffic problems are.

I've wondered if Cintra wasn't eager to get this deal in order to get their foot in the door developing the TTC.  With the cancellation, they're left with this one pointless-looking road out there.  I'd rather have the northern section of 130 that bypasses Austin, and even that was funded partially with fuel taxes and requires massive fuel tax subsidies.  The projections don't even call for it to ever pay for itself; TxDOT built it because of a dedication to toll roads, even if they waste money.

On a broader scale, I wonder about the sanity of the people who proposed the corridor, with hundreds of miles of toll roads costing 20 cents per mile.  The tolls would have to be high to pay for the massive project, but they'd be so high as to be prohibitively expensive.  I'd follow the FM roads before paying $40 to go 200 miles.  Those tolls would end up being twice what the fuel would cost.

[InterstateNG]

Doesn't bypass Austin?  What are you talking about?  Coming from the south, using 45SE to 130 to bypass the city only adds 20 miles or so.  Don't let the maps fool you, there is jack shit on 130 south of Pflugerville.  You wouldn't even know you were anywhere close to a city of 800,000.  The idea that this road takes you incredibly far out of the way is preposterous.

I know that when the road is complete, if I'm leaving for a Spurs game from my office in North Austin, I'm using 130.  35 sucks all the way from Downtown Austin to Buda, and then sucks again in Schertz at that time of day.  No thanks, the time savings and less stressful drive is totally worth it.

Not to say there isn't some shady shit going on.  US 183, which was 65mph with no stop lights will now be 55mph with stop lights and signs.  Caldwell County is not at all pleased about it, either.

[wxfree]

Doesn't bypass Austin?  What are you talking about?  Coming from the south, using 45SE to 130 to bypass the city only adds 20 miles or so.  Don't let the maps fool you, there is jack shit on 130 south of Pflugerville.  You wouldn't even know you were anywhere close to a city of 800,000.  The idea that this road takes you incredibly far out of the way is preposterous.

What I mean is that the southern portion, south of 45SE, doesn't bypass Austin.  It bypasses 35 between Austin and San Antonio.  If I were to build a private toll road, I'd rather have it along the northern portion, which bypasses Austin.  The southern portion, or the complete highway, will be worthwhile for some people during limited times, but the southern portion is worthwhile less of the time.

Bypassing Austin outside of rush hour, I get good results on MoPac and 290, paying a small toll for the north end and saving fuel with a shorter distance.  If I had to go to the other side of Austin during rush hour, I'd have to pay, either money or time.  I don't stress in traffic, so I'd look strictly at time and cost.  The southern section is harder to justify paying for.

[InterstateNG]

Doesn't bypass Austin?  What are you talking about?  Coming from the south, using 45SE to 130 to bypass the city only adds 20 miles or so.  Don't let the maps fool you, there is jack shit on 130 south of Pflugerville.  You wouldn't even know you were anywhere close to a city of 800,000.  The idea that this road takes you incredibly far out of the way is preposterous.

What I mean is that the southern portion, south of 45SE, doesn't bypass Austin.  It bypasses 35 between Austin and San Antonio.  If I were to build a private toll road, I'd rather have it along the northern portion, which bypasses Austin.  The southern portion, or the complete highway, will be worthwhile for some people during limited times, but the southern portion is worthwhile less of the time.

Bypassing Austin outside of rush hour, I get good results on MoPac and 290, paying a small toll for the north end and saving fuel with a shorter distance.  If I had to go to the other side of Austin during rush hour, I'd have to pay, either money or time.  I don't stress in traffic, so I'd look strictly at time and cost.  The southern section is harder to justify paying for.

To each their own.  Again, to not deal with the hellish drive on 35 between the two cities and not sitting in the mess that's 35/1604 on the north side of SA (which is only going to get worse with the construction that's about to start down there) makes 130 an appealing option if I'm in a part of town where I need to use it and spend the 10 bucks.  Otherwise, I'll use 290 to 281.

Cintra doesn't make a profit on their operations anyways, so I don't think they care.  If sprawl follows that corridor as some predict, they'll be fine.

[mgk920]

What is the expected AADT on SH 130? It's rural, it connects no large cities directly, so I presume it would be used mostly by traffic avoiding I-35 and the occasional thrill-seeker to drive NASCAR speeds - as some media outlets put it. I don't think this part of SH 130 will see a lot of traffic until Austin's suburbs will grow to the southeast.

Well, it might get a smidgeon of traffic from the upcoming Formula 1 race (Circuit of the Americas is located just off of TX 130).

http://goo.gl/maps/bB46j



Mike

[The High Plains Traveler]

I just happened to be staying in New Braunfels the past two days so I got to drive a short piece today. As we came across I-10 from Houston yesterday the onramps to TX-130 were still blocked even though VMS along the route said it was open.

After spending some time in San Antonio today, we got on the south end. If the plan is to divert I-35 traffic to it, they had better add a third lane to I-10. I don't know if it is so on the existing segment around Austin and has been reported here, but the road has mileposts and exit numbers that decrease going north. They appear to be based on the typical Texas reference marker system which is mileage relative to the north or west border.

And to prove speed kills, there was a wreck southbound. Maybe that was the first for the new segment. Lots of troopers and an ambulance.

[agentsteel53]

I have photographic evidence that the speed limit is, indeed, 85mph.  first of its kind in the nation.  second only to 140km/h in Poland and Bulgaria as highest posted speed limit in the world.

(Italy has legal provisions for a speed limit of 150km/h but has not implemented it on any road, as far as I know.)