Virginia

[Alps]

The Blue Line is back in service along its full route as of today.

Just managed to catch one.

Here's some of the signage I was talking about. Only what I could reach on foot:

The top line (including the numerics) look like Frutiger, which resembles in some ways Clearview.

The middle and bottom lines appear to be NPS Rawlinson.

That's not Frutiger. I work with Frutiger.

[cpzilliacus]

That's not Frutiger. I work with Frutiger.

Clearview?  NPS Rawlinson is the "main" font for NPS application, but Frutiger is also approved for NPS sign application.

[Alps]

That's not Frutiger. I work with Frutiger.

Clearview?  NPS Rawlinson is the "main" font for NPS application, but Frutiger is also approved for NPS sign application.

I guess I should clarify that it's not in the Frutiger family I'm familiar with. It's such a large family I can't say for certain. On Frutiger 1s, the numeral terminates vertically, not perpendicular to the top stroke. This could be a cheaper knockoff. Clearview is a distinct possibility though.

[jakeroot]

For me, the difference between Clearview and Frutiger 1's is the length of the top stroke. Frutiger's seem shorter. The photo I posted above (and the one on the last page) seems to have a longer top stroke, equal to that of Clearview.

[cpzilliacus]

That's not Frutiger. I work with Frutiger.

Clearview?  NPS Rawlinson is the "main" font for NPS application, but Frutiger is also approved for NPS sign application.

I guess I should clarify that it's not in the Frutiger family I'm familiar with. It's such a large family I can't say for certain. On Frutiger 1s, the numeral terminates vertically, not perpendicular to the top stroke. This could be a cheaper knockoff. Clearview is a distinct possibility though.

According to the NPS Web site (here), they use Adobe Frutiger Std (maybe not the same Frutiger version that you have worked with?) in addition to NPS Rawlinson. 

And NPS still uses FHWA at places where there are direct interchanges between parkways and Interstates - and regulatory  signs (such as speed limits and most others defined by the MUTCD) also use FHWA.

[VTGoose]

The Salem District has a new representative on the Commonwealth Transportation Board (may he be more responsive that Rosen, whom he replaced). Ray Smoot was appointed to the seat vacated by Court Rosen of Roanoke, who resigned from the board after an Aug. 5 drunken-driving arrest. Blacksburg and Montgomery County residents were quite unhappy with Rosen (who was an at-large member of the CTB at the time) and William Fralin (Salem District rep at the time) for pretty much ignoring them and their concerns over the controversial R-cut project at N. Main St. and U.S. 460. Smoot (who is an acquaintance) is retired from Virginia Tech and is an advocate for extending Amtrak service to Christiansburg from its current terminus in Roanoke. He is also aware of the transportation needs of Southwest Virginia, especially I-81, and for the rest of the state.

See https://www.roanoke.com/business/news/smoot-picked-for-former-rosen-slot-on-state-transportation-board/article_d574c4ab-f43f-5823-ba16-34da5c776dca.html

[hbelkins]

In my travels through Virginia last week, I noticed more and more extruded-panel guide signs have been installed. Is VDOT giving contractors the option of installing extruded-panel or the piece-together type of signs?

[cpzilliacus]

In my travels through Virginia last week, I noticed more and more extruded-panel guide signs have been installed. Is VDOT giving contractors the option of installing extruded-panel or the piece-together type of signs?

Northern Virginia District (where I log most of my miles on the Commonwealth's highways) has installed a lot of Maryland-style extruded over the past 5 to 10 years.  It was a shock to see that style of panel in Virginia the first time (on northbound I-395 (Shirley Highway) near the Pentagon in Arlington County).

I do not know if the contract documents called for that style or if the contractor was able to make the choice.

[Old Dominionite]

Most of the extruded signs I see in Virginia are related to the HOT lanes, although - like you - I've seen more of them appear on other state roads.

The use of extruded signs in Virginia doesn't bother me.  I grew up in Connecticut where they were (and remain) ubiquitous.  What does bother me in Virginia is the Clearview vomit across the Commonwealth, and how it will take many years to "clean up."

[Beltway]

I see more and more extruded sign panels in the Richmond area.  My weekly walk across the Potterfield Bridge takes me across the Downtown Expressway and a few feet from one as I walk across an overpass.

[hbelkins]

Most of the extruded signs I see in Virginia are related to the HOT lanes, although - like you - I've seen more of them appear on other state roads.

The use of extruded signs in Virginia doesn't bother me.  I grew up in Connecticut where they were (and remain) ubiquitous.  What does bother me in Virginia is the Clearview vomit across the Commonwealth, and how it will take many years to "clean up."

Now that Clearview is approved again, it may start reappearing.

[jakeroot]

In driving around the last week, my opinion so far is that Clearview is pretty well used in VA. Very few signs where the typeface was poorly sized, etc.

[WillWeaverRVA]

Virginia generally does a pretty good job with Clearview signage nowadays - or at least, in the most recent signage they've posted since the approval was initially rescinded and they reverted to FHWA. It really doesn't look bad at all.

[D-Dey65]

I just thought of something this morning. Was there ever a proposal to add some extra ramps at Exit 41 on I-95?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/37°04'54.0%22N+77°21'17.0%22W/@37.0829007,-77.3602565,2987m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d37.081667!4d-77.354722?hl=en

I'm looking above at the interchange, and it seems like the could've added some extra south to north off and on-ramps but strictly for the northbound lanes. There seems to be some extra room for a loop ramp from southbound VA 35 to northbound I-95, but considering the angle of the US 301/VA 35 overlap there, the loop ramp would still probably require too sharp of a turn.

An on-ramp from US 301/VA 156 to the existing northbound on-ramp looks like it could've been possible though.

[Beltway]

I just thought of something this morning. Was there ever a proposal to add some extra ramps at Exit 41 on I-95?

Not that I ever heard.  Presumably the reason for building the loop ramp was because the original US-301 passed in front of the motels and an I-95 finger ramp would have gone right thru the motels.  Traffic volumes are low on those ramps.

[D-Dey65]

Traffic volumes are low on those ramps.

Yes, I see that.


In the meantime, one exit north, I see that VDOT is building a traffic circle at the southbound off-ramp and US 301.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.1436655,-77.3578945,741m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

[Beltway]

Traffic volumes are low on those ramps.

Yes, I see that.
In the meantime, one exit north, I see that VDOT is building a traffic circle at the southbound off-ramp and US 301.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.1436655,-77.3578945,741m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

Good place.  I don't know the traffic volumes, but that seems to be approaching traffic signal warrants.  There are 13 businesses including 7 motels right near the interchange.

[Mapmikey]

I just thought of something this morning. Was there ever a proposal to add some extra ramps at Exit 41 on I-95?

Not that I ever heard.  Presumably the reason for building the loop ramp was because the original US-301 passed in front of the motels and an I-95 finger ramp would have gone right thru the motels.  Traffic volumes are low on those ramps.

By the time I-95 came along, 301 was using what is now the I-95 carriageway through the interchange, while the original 301 became VA 35Y, which is mostly to the left of the I-95 NB off-ramp (easily seen in 1968 aerials).  The constructed loop ramp was probably to avoid having to tear down the motel in the NW quadrant of that interchange whereas a loop on either quadrant across the interstate would've required tearing down homes/row of hotels.


1963 Prince George County map

[Beltway]

By the time I-95 came along, 301 was using what is now the I-95 carriageway through the interchange, while the original 301 became VA 35Y, which is mostly to the left of the I-95 NB off-ramp (easily seen in 1968 aerials).  The constructed loop ramp was probably to avoid having to tear down the motel in the NW quadrant of that interchange whereas a loop on either quadrant across the interstate would've required tearing down homes/row of hotels.

Thanks, I hadn't seen that map before, but from looking at how I-95 and the interchange is designed, that former segment of US-301 is exactly what I had surmised.  I also had no direct knowledge that the motels were there when I-95 was built 1959-1962.

[jakeroot]

Did we come to a conclusion whether or not the signs above were Clearview or Frutiger? Too many weights of Frutiger to be 100% certain it isn't it, however, it seems to bear more resemblance to Clearview.

[Mapmikey]

 

By the time I-95 came along, 301 was using what is now the I-95 carriageway through the interchange, while the original 301 became VA 35Y, which is mostly to the left of the I-95 NB off-ramp (easily seen in 1968 aerials).  The constructed loop ramp was probably to avoid having to tear down the motel in the NW quadrant of that interchange whereas a loop on either quadrant across the interstate would've required tearing down homes/row of hotels.

Thanks, I hadn't seen that map before, but from looking at how I-95 and the interchange is designed, that former segment of US-301 is exactly what I had surmised.  I also had no direct knowledge that the motels were there when I-95 was built 1959-1962.

I forgot I had this picture below which is from the Virginia Highway Bulletin in the mid-late 1950s.  The advert sign on the far left I believe says RESTAURANT within a left arrow which could mean the NW quadrant facility which would be just around the bend.  On the right hand side it is vague whether there are properties already present.  It appears in the distance up VA 35Y there is some stuff built already...

[Takumi]

For what it's worth, one of the hotels (the one closer to the intersection) was demolished earlier this year.

[D-Dey65]

For what it's worth, one of the hotels (the one closer to the intersection) was demolished earlier this year.

Really? Because Google Maps still has links letting you book rooms in them.

[Takumi]

The one next to the southbound lanes (the old Knights Inn) was demolished. The one next to the northbound lanes is still there.

[jakeroot]

Sorry to jump backwards a bit.

Here's a highway sign in WA which is in Frutiger. No idea why they used the typeface (not an NPS sign), but it's definitely not the same as Clearview.



There's also this sign for VA-123, from eastbound GW Memorial Pkwy in Arlington, where the highway shield uses a non-standard typeface that might be Helvetica. Further proof that the NPS signs around Arlington could all very well be in Clearview (and many almost certainly are...the resemblance to Clearview is uncanny); the NPS clearly has no issue using fonts other than Frutiger and NPS Rawlinson.



Also, there's several exit signs which use FHWA: https://goo.gl/ux1b3K