I was driving from DC back to the Carolinas a few days ago and noticed something different about the sign bridges for the I-85/95 split. The Durham/Atlanta sign was still there for I-85, but the I-95 signs only listed Rocky Mount NC. I know that Miami used to be on this sign and that it was one of the better known signs in the interstate world. But I thought that maybe because I was driving too fast or because there were some big trucks on the road that maybe I simply missed the Miami part.
So then I drove back up to DC and when I merged onto I-95 from 85, I looked in my rearview mirror and sure enough, Miami was not listed on the sign bridge anymore! I couldn't tell if it was a brand new sign or if it had been patched over. Either way, I was very disappointed by this and don't see why VDOT would remove Miami after all these years. I think it's very useful for long-distance travelers who might not be familiar with this stretch of road and I think it makes a great conversation piece for families in the SUV or minivan or something. Anybody know why Miami was removed, especially since Atlanta is still listed albeit on a separate sign?
Speaking of Atlanta, many Virginians choose to take the I-95/I-20 route instead of I-85, probably to avoid the rush hour traffic on I-85 through North Carolina's urban areas. Is I-85 really the main route that most Virginians take to go to Atlanta? I don't see why Atlanta would be included on I-85 signage but Miami wouldn't be included on I-95 signage.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 19, 2015, 09:20:37 PM
Speaking of Atlanta, many Virginians choose to take the I-95/I-20 route instead of I-85, probably to avoid the rush hour traffic on I-85 through North Carolina's urban areas. Is I-85 really the main route that most Virginians take to go to Atlanta? I don't see why Atlanta would be included on I-85 signage but Miami wouldn't be included on I-95 signage.
From Hampton Roads, they're about the same. I personally prefer 85 because of the fact that much of it in NC and SC has been upgraded to 6+ lanes, plus the fact that most of I-20 east of Atlanta is quite boring. Rush hour traffic in the NC cities really isn't a problem unless you leave particularly late. Traffic around Greenville can be a bit messy, however.
Yep, the Miami signs have been replaced within the last month (the one near exit 52 was just last week) with new diagrammatic signs. The only Miami sign left is past I-85 at exit 50, while the only Atlanta sign is between exits 54 and 53.
I'd like to see a photo of these new signs! And I still think I-85 is the better route to Atlanta, despite it going through major cities along the way (Durham, Greensboro, Charlotte, Spartanburg and Greenville). This is true especially if you come from Washington and points north (Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York, etc.).
Then again, you also have to go through other major cities along I-95 (Savannah, Jacksonville, Daytona Beach, West Palm Beach) before ending up in Miami.
I have a photo of the one at the split. I'll get around to uploading it soon, just been busy lately.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 19, 2015, 09:20:37 PM
Speaking of Atlanta, many Virginians choose to take the I-95/I-20 route instead of I-85, probably to avoid the rush hour traffic on I-85 through North Carolina's urban areas. Is I-85 really the main route that most Virginians take to go to Atlanta? I don't see why Atlanta would be included on I-85 signage but Miami wouldn't be included on I-95 signage.
I-85 traffic in North Carolina is generally not a problem. From the Virginia line to Durham, traffic is very light. Durham itself has at least 4 lanes in each direction. Then there's a very short segment between Durham and the I-40/85 concurrency that has 2 lanes each way, which is totally bearable. The concurrency itself is 4 lanes wide on both sides and traffic flows quite easily there. Then after the split, I-85 is 3 lanes each way for most of the route with a new 4-lane section towards Charlotte. This is where the road runs into problems though because you go from 4 lanes to 2 lanes for about 10 miles. Traffic here can be pretty bad. Once you pass Kannapolis and reach Concord, things open up again. Yeah, Charlotte's traffic can be annoying, but I-77 is much worse than I-85 in that city. Things tend to lighten up a bit going from Charlotte to the SC line. And I-85 through Greenville and Spartanburg is 4 lanes wide on each side.
The problem with I-95 in NC is that it's 2 lanes wide the whole way through the state even though the traffic counts warrant more than that. So it's an unpleasant drive if you get stuck behind a semi or a slow minivan or something and can't pass. The scenery is also much less interesting and there are no towns of significance to speak of.
I can understand taking I-95/20 to Columbia, but taking I-95/20 to Atlanta seems unnecessarily far out of the way. I-85 is a much more enjoyable drive though NC.
Does anyone have a photo of this sign? I've heard about it before, but can't say I've seen it online.
Quote from: formulanone on April 21, 2015, 10:16:22 PM
Does anyone have a photo of this sign? I've heard about it before, but can't say I've seen it online.
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/virginia095/i-095_sb_exit_051_02.jpg)
From https://www.aaroads.com/guide.php?page=i0095sfva
I think that's probably the single most popular or best known sign among all roadgeeks.
The new sign only says Rocky Mount NC and has some long directional arrows.
Quote from: Zzonkmiles on April 22, 2015, 07:29:19 PM
The new sign only says Rocky Mount NC and has some long directional arrows.
So that applies to I-95 only, or the whole sign (in which case there's nothing listed for I-85)?
I have a picture of the new sign, but it's on my smartphone. I want to post it here, but am unsure how.
Occasionally, I've e-mailed a pic from my phone to myself. The phone e-mail was (I think) my 10-digit numbermms.att.net (example: 1234567890mms@att.net sent to my Yahoo! e-mail address). I didn't know how else to send it. I only have a NET-10 phone.
(_8(I) - D'oh!
Quote from: Zzonkmiles on April 27, 2015, 12:06:58 AM
I have a picture of the new sign, but it's on my smartphone. I want to post it here, but am unsure how.
You can insert a photo from your phone into the forum via the Tapatalk mobile app.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F15%2F04%2F29%2F5a52ca703a33ed77d22fce7ecb2ab3c4.jpg&hash=1b3ada36754cc9b3c6a84a769b130e52adf17859)
Apologies for the picture quality, but it was drizzling. But here you go! And thanks for the Tapatalk suggestion!
Is VDOT starting to use Clearview properly? I saw series D gothic at the Woodbridge interchange (Exit 161 off I-95 Southbound)
And now this. My hopes are up.
Where's US 460 East? Doesn't it still follow I-95 south from here?
Quote from: OracleUsr on April 29, 2015, 10:37:25 PM
Is VDOT starting to use Clearview properly? I saw series D gothic at the Woodbridge interchange (Exit 161 off I-95 Southbound)
And now this. My hopes are up.
Yep, late last year VDOT has updated its policy on its use of Clearview, enforcing its proper use only for mixed case legend, and not for all-caps or numerals. The updated policy also forbids the use of the narrower Clearview variants as well as any of the negative contrast variants, allowing the use of only Clearview 5-W, or Clearview 5-W-R if sign width is limited.
Quote from: OracleUsr on April 29, 2015, 10:38:20 PM
Where's US 460 East? Doesn't it still follow I-95 south from here?
Yes...US 460 east posting from here to Wagner Rd is spotty at best. If you are on I-85 North the BGSs do show 460 east following 95 south.
Mapmikey
Quote from: Mapmikey on April 30, 2015, 06:25:09 AM
Quote from: OracleUsr on April 29, 2015, 10:38:20 PM
Where's US 460 East? Doesn't it still follow I-95 south from here?
Yes...US 460 east posting from here to Wagner Rd is spotty at best. If you are on I-85 North the BGSs do show 460 east following 95 south.
Mapmikey
Of course as that is US 460 proper it should very well be. I guess they figure for I-95 S Bound that you would eventually come upon the actual exit sign where it diverges, so they do not even bother here.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 30, 2015, 10:15:27 AM
Quote from: Mapmikey on April 30, 2015, 06:25:09 AM
Quote from: OracleUsr on April 29, 2015, 10:38:20 PM
Where's US 460 East? Doesn't it still follow I-95 south from here?
Yes...US 460 east posting from here to Wagner Rd is spotty at best. If you are on I-85 North the BGSs do show 460 east following 95 south.
Mapmikey
Of course as that is US 460 proper it should very well be. I guess they figure for I-95 S Bound that you would eventually come upon the actual exit sign where it diverges, so they do not even bother here.
In reality, not so much. Coming off I-85 north onto I-95 south, there's a fork that goes onto 460 Business to the left and 95/460 to the right, but the only mention of 460 from there to the Wagner exit is this vague overhead sign that says "TO" 460. (http://goo.gl/maps/62jBY) There is no 460 signage whatsoever at the Wagner interchange itself on either direction on I-95, despite the signs being replaced with new Clearview a few years ago. The only 460 posting at that interchange is a single shield on westbound Wagner pointing onto I-95 north.
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
Rocky Mount isn't a bad choice. Miami's use was interesting - however, you can compare it to Maryland's insistent signing of New York (City) on I-95 from Baltimore!
Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 30, 2015, 02:16:11 AM
Yep, late last year VDOT has updated its policy on its use of Clearview, enforcing its proper use only for mixed case legend, and not for all-caps or numerals. The updated policy also forbids the use of the narrower Clearview variants as well as any of the negative contrast variants, allowing the use of only Clearview 5-W, or Clearview 5-W-R if sign width is limited.
Good for VDOT. Now all I can hope is that MDSHA and DelDOT do the same as well, and NJDOT's rogue contractor gets the fuck out of our state...
The heck with Miami. I am mad that Atlanta was removed from that sign.
Miami was kind of interesting, as so was Atlanta to see on those signs. Now I am not crying that those are now gone, but I am not exactly either complaining that they were there.
Rocky Mount replaced Emporia that was there years ago, and to me it is not that bad a destination to use. It is much better than Benson used further south which only came to fame when I-40 was constructed in 1990 as it is a very small town. Fayetteville should be used south of US 64, and Rocky Mount should be used from Fayetteville north to US 64 where Richmond could take over IMO.
Quote from: Zeffy on April 30, 2015, 10:45:20 AM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
Rocky Mount isn't a bad choice. Miami's use was interesting - however, you can compare it to Maryland's insistent signing of New York (City) on I-95 from Baltimore!
New York is only about 3.5 hours or so from Baltimore though so it's not nearly as outrageous as Miami being signed in Richmond. New York is a sensible (albeit slightly odd) control city for Baltimore. Miami for Richmond? Not so much.
Honestly, Fayetteville is about as far from Richmond as NYC is from Baltimore. Signing Fayetteville at that junction makes some sense, especially pairing it with Rocky Mount there. If Fayetteville isn't notable enough, I'd sign it as "Fort Bragg/Pope AFB" if that helps some people.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on April 30, 2015, 11:52:57 AM
New York is only about 3.5 hours or so from Baltimore though so it's not nearly as outrageous as Miami being signed in Richmond. New York is a sensible (albeit slightly odd) control city for Baltimore. Miami for Richmond? Not so much.
I hope Maryland will start to include Philadelphia (and Wilmington) more-prominently on signs on I-95 northbound once the
slow,
slower and
slowest Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission/PennDOT project to close the I-95 gap in Bristol is complete enough to allow drivers to follow I-95 north through Philadelphia and still reach New York and points beyond.
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
What would you have done with Atlanta? Replaced it with one of the Carolinas' major cities, like Greensboro or Charlotte?
In any case, I'm sure these signs would make great collectibles simply because of their double quirks: Atlanta on one sign and Miami on the other.
Quote from: Henry on April 30, 2015, 01:03:41 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
What would you have done with Atlanta? Replaced it with one of the Carolinas' major cities, like Greensboro or Charlotte?
In any case, I'm sure these signs would make great collectibles simply because of their double quirks: Atlanta on one sign and Miami on the other.
I would've used Durham on that sign.
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 01:21:47 PM
I would've used Durham on that sign.
If memory serves, Durham was used on some signs on I-85 in Virginia (but it has been a while since I drove I-85).
Durham is on the old and new versions of the I-95 SB BGSs...
Quote from: Mapmikey on April 30, 2015, 02:21:57 PM
Durham is on the old and new versions of the I-95 SB BGSs...
I thought I remember seeing Durham on I-85 in Virginia, but it makes sense that VDOT would put Durham on I-95 as well.
I have not driven the old RTP south of U.S. 250 (East Broad Street) in quite a few years.
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 01:21:47 PM
Quote from: Henry on April 30, 2015, 01:03:41 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
What would you have done with Atlanta? Replaced it with one of the Carolinas' major cities, like Greensboro or Charlotte?
In any case, I'm sure these signs would make great collectibles simply because of their double quirks: Atlanta on one sign and Miami on the other.
I would've used Durham on that sign.
Replace Atlanta with Charlotte and sign it as Durham and Charlotte. Charlotte is a noteworthy enough destination that it warrants being a control city, if we're signing cities that aren't in the immediate area.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on April 30, 2015, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 01:21:47 PM
Quote from: Henry on April 30, 2015, 01:03:41 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
What would you have done with Atlanta? Replaced it with one of the Carolinas' major cities, like Greensboro or Charlotte?
In any case, I'm sure these signs would make great collectibles simply because of their double quirks: Atlanta on one sign and Miami on the other.
I would've used Durham on that sign.
Replace Atlanta with Charlotte and sign it as Durham and Charlotte. Charlotte is a noteworthy enough destination that it warrants being a control city, if we're signing cities that aren't in the immediate area.
Years ago (when the RTP was still tolled, prior to 1992), one of the control cities on the BGS panels at the point where I-85 exited-off from I-95 after the big toll plaza in Petersburg, had a control city of South Hill (which isn't too bad, IMO).
In those days, that was the last RTP plaza for I-95 traffic, but there was another toll on I-85, headed south just prior to the U.S. 1 interchange (present-day Exit 63).
There's one Atlanta posting left, at the 2-mile advance sign between exits 54 and 53. Most of the other I-85 signage has South Hill and Blackstone (a small town on US 460 about 30 miles west).
Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 30, 2015, 02:16:11 AM
Quote from: OracleUsr on April 29, 2015, 10:37:25 PM
Is VDOT starting to use Clearview properly? I saw series D gothic at the Woodbridge interchange (Exit 161 off I-95 Southbound)
And now this. My hopes are up.
Yep, late last year VDOT has updated its policy on its use of Clearview, enforcing its proper use only for mixed case legend, and not for all-caps or numerals. The updated policy also forbids the use of the narrower Clearview variants as well as any of the negative contrast variants, allowing the use of only Clearview 5-W, or Clearview 5-W-R if sign width is limited.
Thank goodness. My first exposure to the LEFT banner in VA was for the Dulles Greenway (LEFT EXIT 45 off I-495 Inner) and that was the most hideous looking sign I have ever seen. Then I got back on Outer I-495 and saw the I-66 East sign with the same effect.
I swear at one time on the split there was more than just Rocky Mount/Miami on the left panel. Was I dreaming?
Quote from: Henry on April 30, 2015, 01:03:41 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
What would you have done with Atlanta? Replaced it with one of the Carolinas' major cities, like Greensboro or Charlotte?
In any case, I'm sure these signs would make great collectibles simply because of their double quirks: Atlanta on one sign and Miami on the other.
If you have a 20-foot wall to mount them on, maybe you can work out a deal for them.
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
Well, North Carolina is pretty weird with its control cities on I-95. I've seen Lumberton, Fayetteville, Benson, Dunn, Wilson, Rocky Mount and Richmond as control signs. Sometimes a control city will appear on a sign bridge and then NOT appear on the very next mileage sign. I guess Rocky Mount is okay, but Fayetteville might be better. Heck, even Raleigh would be a better candidate than Wilson, Dunn and Benson.
Jacksonville (FL) won't work as a control city because there's a Jacksonville in eastern NC as well.
Keep in mind NC is the same state that relegated its state capital to a bolted on auxiliary sign at the US-64 (Future I-495) exit on I-95: https://goo.gl/maps/fvlyA
It isn't signed northbound there for various reasons, yet its signed southbound at US-264!
On I-85, Virginia uses South Hill southbound. There is at least one mileage sign for Durham and Henderson each.
Quote from: Zzonkmiles on April 30, 2015, 08:02:56 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
Well, North Carolina is pretty weird with its control cities on I-95. I've seen Lumberton, Fayetteville, Benson, Dunn, Wilson, Rocky Mount and Richmond as control signs. Sometimes a control city will appear on a sign bridge and then NOT appear on the very next mileage sign. I guess Rocky Mount is okay, but Fayetteville might be better. Heck, even Raleigh would be a better candidate than Wilson, Dunn and Benson.
Jacksonville (FL) won't work as a control city because there's a Jacksonville in eastern NC as well.
There is also Florence SC and I believe at some point in the past there has also been Weldon and Smithfield
Quote from: Mapmikey on April 30, 2015, 09:09:11 PM
Quote from: Zzonkmiles on April 30, 2015, 08:02:56 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
Well, North Carolina is pretty weird with its control cities on I-95. I've seen Lumberton, Fayetteville, Benson, Dunn, Wilson, Rocky Mount and Richmond as control signs. Sometimes a control city will appear on a sign bridge and then NOT appear on the very next mileage sign. I guess Rocky Mount is okay, but Fayetteville might be better. Heck, even Raleigh would be a better candidate than Wilson, Dunn and Benson.
Jacksonville (FL) won't work as a control city because there's a Jacksonville in eastern NC as well.
There is also Florence SC and I believe at some point in the past there has also been Weldon and Smithfield
Smithfield does appear on the I-40 sign bridge heading on 95 northbound. Curiously, Durham appears on the sign bridge if you are heading southbound, but not northbound.
Also, the Atlanta sign does appear on a separate sign on I-95 south in Petersburg. Seems Virginia has a penchant for putting multiple control signs on multiple signs before an actual interchange. They do something similar with I-295. Coming from Washington, the 295 control cities include Rocky Mount, Williamsburg, Norfolk, and Virginia Beach, if I remember correctly. Heck, maybe even Hopewell is listed.
Quote from: Zzonkmiles on April 30, 2015, 11:24:05 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on April 30, 2015, 09:09:11 PM
Quote from: Zzonkmiles on April 30, 2015, 08:02:56 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
Well, North Carolina is pretty weird with its control cities on I-95. I've seen Lumberton, Fayetteville, Benson, Dunn, Wilson, Rocky Mount and Richmond as control signs. Sometimes a control city will appear on a sign bridge and then NOT appear on the very next mileage sign. I guess Rocky Mount is okay, but Fayetteville might be better. Heck, even Raleigh would be a better candidate than Wilson, Dunn and Benson.
Jacksonville (FL) won't work as a control city because there's a Jacksonville in eastern NC as well.
There is also Florence SC and I believe at some point in the past there has also been Weldon and Smithfield
Smithfield does appear on the I-40 sign bridge heading on 95 northbound. Curiously, Durham appears on the sign bridge if you are heading southbound, but not northbound.
Also, the Atlanta sign does appear on a separate sign on I-95 south in Petersburg. Seems Virginia has a penchant for putting multiple control signs on multiple signs before an actual interchange. They do something similar with I-295. Coming from Washington, the 295 control cities include Rocky Mount, Williamsburg, Norfolk, and Virginia Beach, if I remember correctly. Heck, maybe even Hopewell is listed.
Miami also used to be on I-95 southbound before I-295, but 10-15 years ago it was changed to Richmond airport.
Quote from: Takumi on May 01, 2015, 12:30:58 AM
Miami also used to be on I-95 southbound before I-295, but 10-15 years ago it was changed to Richmond airport.
Old A.A. Gallery vidcaps from 1999:
(//www.aaroads.com/forum_images/mid-atlantic/i-95-295va.jpg)
(//www.aaroads.com/forum_images/mid-atlantic/i-95-295va2.jpg)
IMO, having Miami and Atlanta on the signs, while not required, was very useful because of the large number of snowbirds who use the highway. Many do not know about the towns on the way and know that they are simply going to Miami. If Miami is not there, which is the case now, I bet more thru traffic would stay on I-95 as opposed to using I-295 as the very clear bypass that it was intended.
Atlanta is not as important, since Charlotte is fairly well known, but I imagine Atlanta was chosen to be a complement to Miami on the 95/85 split sign. For each highway one regionally familiar control city and one very distant (but nationally familiar) control city.
To be fair, wouldn't snowbirds know that North Carolina is south of Virginia but north of Florida? Rocky Mount, NC would be enough to clue them in that I-295 is the best way to get to North Carolina.
Quote from: mrsman on May 01, 2015, 12:12:19 PM
IMO, having Miami and Atlanta on the signs, while not required, was very useful because of the large number of snowbirds who use the highway. Many do not know about the towns on the way and know that they are simply going to Miami. If Miami is not there, which is the case now, I bet more thru traffic would stay on I-95 as opposed to using I-295 as the very clear bypass that it was intended.
Atlanta is not as important, since Charlotte is fairly well known, but I imagine Atlanta was chosen to be a complement to Miami on the 95/85 split sign. For each highway one regionally familiar control city and one very distant (but nationally familiar) control city.
I appreciate the sentiment, but it creeps perilously close to our imaginary friend who posted exclusively about the need to sign "New York" everywhere within 500 miles of the city.
Didn't Maryland used to post "NJ Turnpike" on pull thrus on the JFK Expressway at one point?
It would seem peculiar that VDOT would post signage so far south...but then again, I've seen that TDOT sign in Memphis on the I-55 at US78 with signage pointing eastbound traffic to Birmingham (AL) - even though Tupelo (MS) is much closer.
To be fair though, signing "Philadelphia" makes sense for Maryland. Why do they care what through traffic does north of their state? Leave it to Delaware to properly direct people to I-295. There's no reason for Maryland to NOT list Philadelphia on I-95 signage especially since I-95 IS the proper way to get to Philly from Maryland.
I might be able to tolerate using the NJ Turnpike as a control "city." It's basically using a control city as a guide point, like I assume Pennsylvania does with Breezewood. The NJ Turnpike and Breezewood aren't destinations in themselves, but they're notable enough that you know you're going the right way if you happen upon them.
Quote from: PHLBOS on May 01, 2015, 02:17:30 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 30, 2015, 12:59:17 PMI hope Maryland will start to include Philadelphia (and Wilmington) more-prominently on signs on I-95 northbound once the slow, slower and slowest Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission/PennDOT project to close the I-95 gap in Bristol is complete enough to allow drivers to follow I-95 north through Philadelphia and still reach New York and points beyond.
Since you mentioned Wilmington in your above-post, what's stopping Maryland from using that as a listed I-95 northbound destination today? The core of the city is located just north of the I-95/295/495 split and has nothing to do whatsoever with the status of that I-95/PA Turnpike interchange.
Yes, MDTA could sign Wilmington now (and Maryland SHA does, but on U.S. 301 north of Queenstown).
Just like SHA signs Philadelphia on U.S. 40 east of Baltimore, where it runs parallel to I-95 - and even though U.S. 40 gets noplace close to Philadelphia.
Quote from: PHLBOS on May 01, 2015, 02:17:30 PM
As far as not listing Philadelphia on those signs; something tells me that even if the original I-95 (the Somerset Freeway in NJ) had been built, Maryland would've probably still use New York as a northbound destination for the simple reason being that most through-traffic to New York will still use I-295 and the NJ Turnpike (and bypass Philly) to get there.
I have nothing against SHA and MDTA signing New York on I-95. But the failure to mention Wilmington and Philadelphia is IMO wrong.
As for through traffic, I have always had the impression that DelDOT tries hard (and has tried hard since the Delaware Turnpike opened in 1963) to get traffic bound for New York to use I-295 and the Delaware Memorial Bridge by (correctly) having no mention of New York on the sign panels for I-95 northbound approaching the I-95/I-295/I-495 "split."
Quote from: PHLBOS on May 01, 2015, 02:17:30 PM
OTOH, through-traffic to New England could've used I-95 through Philly along with the unbuilt-Somerset Freeway portion to I-695 (also unbuilt in NJ) to I-287 to bypass NYC and vicinity.
But I digress.
NIMBYism hurts everyone, even though think the wider N.J. Turnpike north of Exit 6 was ultimately a better choice.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on May 01, 2015, 11:26:11 PM
Didn't Maryland used to post "NJ Turnpike" on pull thrus on the JFK Expressway at one point?
I recall seeing it on the mileage signs, and as a "control city" at the entrance ramps to I-95 northbound.
The discussion pertaining to the New Jersey Turnpike and the closely related unbuilt Somerset Freeway has been split into the New Jersey Turnpike (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11190.msg2062503#msg2062503) topic. Please continue discussion on the removal of Miami as a control city from the sign bridge at the I-85 and I-95 split. Thanks!
Quote from: mrsman on May 01, 2015, 12:12:19 PM
IMO, having Miami and Atlanta on the signs, while not required, was very useful because of the large number of snowbirds who use the highway. Many do not know about the towns on the way and know that they are simply going to Miami. If Miami is not there, which is the case now, I bet more thru traffic would stay on I-95 as opposed to using I-295 as the very clear bypass that it was intended.
Atlanta is not as important, since Charlotte is fairly well known, but I imagine Atlanta was chosen to be a complement to Miami on the 95/85 split sign. For each highway one regionally familiar control city and one very distant (but nationally familiar) control city.
And Charlotte is not? It comes way before Atlanta and has national importance where everyone has heard of it.
Charlotte's prominence is much more recent than Atlanta's. I suspect the use of Atlanta on those signs dates back to before Charlotte became a financial center.
Quote from: Zeffy on April 30, 2015, 10:45:20 AM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
Rocky Mount isn't a bad choice. Miami's use was interesting - however, you can compare it to Maryland's insistent signing of New York (City) on I-95 from Baltimore!
Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 30, 2015, 02:16:11 AM
Yep, late last year VDOT has updated its policy on its use of Clearview, enforcing its proper use only for mixed case legend, and not for all-caps or numerals. The updated policy also forbids the use of the narrower Clearview variants as well as any of the negative contrast variants, allowing the use of only Clearview 5-W, or Clearview 5-W-R if sign width is limited.
Good for VDOT. Now all I can hope is that MDSHA and DelDOT do the same as well, and NJDOT's rogue contractor gets the fuck out of our state...
Just drove into DC over the weekend and I recall New York City being listed as a control city on 95 in VA as you approach DC. So I guess VDOT just has a thing for signing distant control cities along its interstates.
Quote from: Cemajr on June 02, 2015, 11:51:44 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on April 30, 2015, 10:45:20 AM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
Rocky Mount isn't a bad choice. Miami's use was interesting - however, you can compare it to Maryland's insistent signing of New York (City) on I-95 from Baltimore!
Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 30, 2015, 02:16:11 AM
Yep, late last year VDOT has updated its policy on its use of Clearview, enforcing its proper use only for mixed case legend, and not for all-caps or numerals. The updated policy also forbids the use of the narrower Clearview variants as well as any of the negative contrast variants, allowing the use of only Clearview 5-W, or Clearview 5-W-R if sign width is limited.
Good for VDOT. Now all I can hope is that MDSHA and DelDOT do the same as well, and NJDOT's rogue contractor gets the fuck out of our state...
Just drove into DC over the weekend and I recall New York City being listed as a control city on 95 in VA as you approach DC. So I guess VDOT just has a thing for signing distant control cities along its interstates.
Of course, it doesn't compare to having Los Angeles signed along I-40 as far away as San Jon, NM, even though it goes nowhere near there! I wonder what is the furthest use for Chicago as a control city?
Quote from: Henry on June 02, 2015, 01:04:57 PM
Of course, it doesn't compare to having Los Angeles signed along I-40 as far away as San Jon, NM, even though it goes nowhere near there! I wonder what is the furthest use for Chicago as a control city?
Farthest I know is Sikeston, MO, about 385 miles away. (Richmond to Miami is about 950 for comparison).
Quote from: Henry on June 02, 2015, 01:04:57 PM
Quote from: Cemajr on June 02, 2015, 11:51:44 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on April 30, 2015, 10:45:20 AM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
Rocky Mount isn't a bad choice. Miami's use was interesting - however, you can compare it to Maryland's insistent signing of New York (City) on I-95 from Baltimore!
Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 30, 2015, 02:16:11 AM
Yep, late last year VDOT has updated its policy on its use of Clearview, enforcing its proper use only for mixed case legend, and not for all-caps or numerals. The updated policy also forbids the use of the narrower Clearview variants as well as any of the negative contrast variants, allowing the use of only Clearview 5-W, or Clearview 5-W-R if sign width is limited.
Good for VDOT. Now all I can hope is that MDSHA and DelDOT do the same as well, and NJDOT's rogue contractor gets the fuck out of our state...
Just drove into DC over the weekend and I recall New York City being listed as a control city on 95 in VA as you approach DC. So I guess VDOT just has a thing for signing distant control cities along its interstates.
Of course, it doesn't compare to having Los Angeles signed along I-40 as far away as San Jon, NM, even though it goes nowhere near there! I wonder what is the furthest use for Chicago as a control city?
As a kid I can remember Chicago being listed on a BGS as far away as Youngstown Ohio at the 80/76 interchange. I haven't been through there in close to 30 years though. On GSV it shows Cleveland for I-80 westbound now.
Quote from: Cemajr on June 02, 2015, 11:51:44 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on April 30, 2015, 10:45:20 AM
Quote from: US 41 on April 30, 2015, 10:41:56 AM
I can't believe Miami would even be on the sign since its so far away. If I had designed the sign I would have either put Savannah or Jacksonville in Miami's place. As for Rocky Point I would've replaced it with Fayetteville.
Rocky Mount isn't a bad choice. Miami's use was interesting - however, you can compare it to Maryland's insistent signing of New York (City) on I-95 from Baltimore!
Quote from: Pink Jazz on April 30, 2015, 02:16:11 AM
Yep, late last year VDOT has updated its policy on its use of Clearview, enforcing its proper use only for mixed case legend, and not for all-caps or numerals. The updated policy also forbids the use of the narrower Clearview variants as well as any of the negative contrast variants, allowing the use of only Clearview 5-W, or Clearview 5-W-R if sign width is limited.
Good for VDOT. Now all I can hope is that MDSHA and DelDOT do the same as well, and NJDOT's rogue contractor gets the fuck out of our state...
Just drove into DC over the weekend and I recall New York City being listed as a control city on 95 in VA as you approach DC. So I guess VDOT just has a thing for signing distant control cities along its interstates.
This is correct. Baltimore and NYC are indeed listed on at least one sign bridge south of DC. There is also another sign that says "NY-NJ USE I-95 NORTH" in the same area. But unlike Miami, I think there are probably lots of people who drive between DC and NY who would probably benefit from this kind of long-distance signage. I always thought of the Miami thing as more of a novelty or conversation piece as the minivan exits civilization and begins the 400-mile journey through absolutely NOTHING before reaching Savannah.