Football (North America: NFL, CFL, Arena Football, minor leagues)

Started by Stephane Dumas, July 29, 2012, 11:20:15 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: texaskdog on August 01, 2012, 01:03:22 PM
Quote from: formulanone on August 01, 2012, 09:17:24 AM
Quote from: english si on July 31, 2012, 10:28:22 AM
Though you could double the number of teams by having a second tier, with 4th place from each top division swapping with the 1st place in the respective 2nd tier division. This also gives the drama of relegation.

College football essentially has a multi-tier system; you're either in a BCS division or not, or in a different division: FCS (old 1-A), rather than FBS (old 1-AA). Every couple of years, an FCS team jumps up to the FBS level, although it's rare to hear of a school going in the opposite direction.

Some FBS teams really need to drop down to the FCS.  Eastern Michigan is the best example.  Kent State and others haven't been to a bowl in years and barely avg 15,000 per game.

I think the NCAA has provisions for kicking teams out of their subdivision. I can't remember exactly what they are though. So do conferences: Temple was initially booted from the Big East several years ago (I think because of attendance issues primarily). although the Big East has now invited the Owls back, probably as a result of the realignment craze.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running


texaskdog

It's true but they don't do it.  They are supposed to draw 15,000 at home which most teams fudge but E  Mich draws around 3,000-4,000 per game.  Half of the MAC should go.

formulanone

Quote from: texaskdog on August 03, 2012, 08:59:28 AM
It's true but they don't do it.  They are supposed to draw 15,000 at home which most teams fudge...

Florida Atlantic University and Florida International University counted their total commuter parking spaces on campus, and sent in those numbers to the NCAA.

cpzilliacus

Washington Post op-ed by George Will: Football's problem with danger on the field isn't going away

QuoteStill, football has bigger long-term problems than lawsuits. Football is entertainment in which the audience is expected to delight in gladiatorial action that a growing portion of the audience knows may cause the players degenerative brain disease. Not even football fans, a tribe not known for savoring nuance, can forever block that fact from their excited brains.

QuoteFurthermore, in this age of bubble-wrapped children, when parents put helmets on wee tricycle riders, many children are going to be steered away from youth football, diverting the flow of talent to the benefit of other sports.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

english si

QuoteFurthermore, in this age of bubble-wrapped children, when parents put helmets on wee tricycle riders, many children are going to be steered away from youth football, diverting the flow of talent to the benefit of other sports.
Hopefully these other sports aren't Olympic sports - you don't need more talent there!

Then again, Team USA only got 5 gold medals out of 25 yesterday, whereas Team GB got 6, so yah boo sucks!

--

I'm trying to think what sports could be played by those who would otherwise play football seriously as teenagers - Aussie Rules? Rugby? Water Polo? similar parental moaning one imagines about those sports. So the answer is 'none'.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: english si on August 05, 2012, 12:16:12 PM
I'm trying to think what sports could be played by those who would otherwise play football seriously as teenagers - Aussie Rules? Rugby? Water Polo? similar parental moaning one imagines about those sports. So the answer is 'none'.

Quidditch?
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

realjd

Quote from: english si on August 05, 2012, 12:16:12 PM
I'm trying to think what sports could be played by those who would otherwise play football seriously as teenagers - Aussie Rules? Rugby? Water Polo? similar parental moaning one imagines about those sports. So the answer is 'none'.

Arguably the biggest youth sport in the US is soccer. I could see fewer kids transitioning from youth soccer to school-sponsored football (like many do now) and more sticking with soccer. With the money wrapped up in football though, many parents just won't care, particularly for kids from some lower income segments of our population which aren't exactly known for strong parenting.

triplemultiplex

Futbol might be much more boring, but it's also much less expensive than football.  And whatever health risks we hear about from heading a soccer ball, they can't compare to the consequences we now know about all this hitting in the elite levels of football.  The long term prognosis of football vs. futbol in America doesn't seem very good at this point.  There's a reason why boxing went from one of our most popular sports to one of our most obscure (other than the overtly homoerotic overtones of two half naked dudes wailing on each other.)

Football will have to be rescued by technology.  The athletic ability of the players has exceeded the ability to protect their brains from all those hits.  And those are the only injuries that are of great concern.  We can fix muscles and joints better than ever, but neurological trauma is still really tough.  The accumulation of hits is deeply concerning.  Given the financial incentive to keep this awesome sport going and the league's willingness to finally address the problem, it seems likely that this decade will see a breakthrough in helmet technology which will save our stars from long term injury.  And hopefully this will mean an end to some of these bullshit No-Fun-League pussy penalties that so offend most of us fans.
(Oh no, my fingers grazed the quarterback's helment!  That's a 15 yard penalty!)
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

cpzilliacus

Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 05, 2012, 11:53:02 PM
Football will have to be rescued by technology.  The athletic ability of the players has exceeded the ability to protect their brains from all those hits.  And those are the only injuries that are of great concern.  We can fix muscles and joints better than ever, but neurological trauma is still really tough.  The accumulation of hits is deeply concerning.  Given the financial incentive to keep this awesome sport going and the league's willingness to finally address the problem, it seems likely that this decade will see a breakthrough in helmet technology which will save our stars from long term injury.  And hopefully this will mean an end to some of these bullshit No-Fun-League pussy penalties that so offend most of us fans.
(Oh no, my fingers grazed the quarterback's helment!  That's a 15 yard penalty!)

Improved helmets might help, though would that mean that they  would have to get larger (making the shells thicker) so they could do a better job of absorbing shocks?

I also wonder if the use of artificial turf might be bad for the long-term health of the people that play on it, as compared to real grass fields?  In my opinion, there is no excuse for artificial turf in any outdoor football venue.

And I say that even though one of the  NFL teams I root for, the Baltimore Ravens, plays at home on an artificial field.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

pianocello

Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 06, 2012, 11:40:04 AM
Improved helmets might help, though would that mean that they  would have to get larger (making the shells thicker) so they could do a better job of absorbing shocks?

Motorcycle helmets on the football field?  :sombrero:
Davenport, IA -> Valparaiso, IN -> Ames, IA -> Orlando, FL -> Gainesville, FL -> Evansville, IN

realjd

Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 06, 2012, 11:40:04 AM
I also wonder if the use of artificial turf might be bad for the long-term health of the people that play on it, as compared to real grass fields?  In my opinion, there is no excuse for artificial turf in any outdoor football venue.

And I say that even though one of the  NFL teams I root for, the Baltimore Ravens, plays at home on an artificial field.

I've refereed soccer games on various types of artificial turf. The high end, modern artificial surfaces closely mimic real grass. They're nothing like the old style astroturf you see at mini-golf places. Surfaces like Field Turf have individual blades of fake grass, and some brands even have rubber/sand dirt mixed in with the grass. It plays very similar to natural grass surfaces.



There are plenty of reasons why artificial turf makes sense in outdoor stadiums. For one thing, in dry climates like Phoenix, it's more environmentally friendly because it doesn't need watering. Also, in cold and cloudy climates, stadiums sometimes have to use artificial lights (like at Emirates Stadium in London below) to keep the grass growing, which is wasteful IMO.


NYYPhil777

Speaking of the NFL, NFL football, IMRSO (in my really serious opinion), MUST be kept in the United States. I don't want it going international unless American football ever becomes an Olympic sport.
To whoever brought up the Cleveland Browns being in a curse- same feeling I have about the NHL's St. Louis Blues.
BTW, I deeply miss the XFL. It's also a good thing the USFL is coming back. If I ever hear about Donald Trump putting a stake into the new USFL, I'll be rolling over my carpet laughing.  :)
And does anybody know about the UFL (United Football League)?
(from Blazing Saddles)
Jim: Where you headed, cowboy?
Bart: Nowhere special.
Jim: Nowhere special? I always wanted to go there.
Bart: Come on.

-NYYPhil777

agentsteel53

live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

realjd

^^^
You'd have to ask the Kalamazoo Gazette, the newspaper I shamelessly hotlinked that picture from.

Alps

Quote from: realjd on August 06, 2012, 03:52:26 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 06, 2012, 11:40:04 AM
I also wonder if the use of artificial turf might be bad for the long-term health of the people that play on it, as compared to real grass fields?  In my opinion, there is no excuse for artificial turf in any outdoor football venue.

And I say that even though one of the  NFL teams I root for, the Baltimore Ravens, plays at home on an artificial field.

I've refereed soccer games on various types of artificial turf. The high end, modern artificial surfaces closely mimic real grass. They're nothing like the old style astroturf you see at mini-golf places. Surfaces like Field Turf have individual blades of fake grass, and some brands even have rubber/sand dirt mixed in with the grass. It plays very similar to natural grass surfaces.



There are plenty of reasons why artificial turf makes sense in outdoor stadiums. For one thing, in dry climates like Phoenix, it's more environmentally friendly because it doesn't need watering. Also, in cold and cloudy climates, stadiums sometimes have to use artificial lights (like at Emirates Stadium in London below) to keep the grass growing, which is wasteful IMO.

I've played on the stuff a little. It's not grass, not by a long shot, if you're just comparing them straight. In terms of sports, there are two important factors. One: unlike other artificial turf, it's very lightweight blades, so balls will actually roll similar to grass. Two: because the plastic density is much lower, you're a lot less prone to get turf burns.

mgk920

Quote from: realjd on August 06, 2012, 03:52:26 PMThere are plenty of reasons why artificial turf makes sense in outdoor stadiums. For one thing, in dry climates like Phoenix, it's more environmentally friendly because it doesn't need watering. Also, in cold and cloudy climates, stadiums sometimes have to use artificial lights (like at Emirates Stadium in London below) to keep the grass growing, which is wasteful IMO.



The Packers use an identical system with their hybrid natural/artificial turf at Lambeau Field.

Mike

cpzilliacus

Quote from: realjd on August 06, 2012, 03:52:26 PM
There are plenty of reasons why artificial turf makes sense in outdoor stadiums. For one thing, in dry climates like Phoenix, it's more environmentally friendly because it doesn't need watering. Also, in cold and cloudy climates, stadiums sometimes have to use artificial lights (like at Emirates Stadium in London below) to keep the grass growing, which is wasteful IMO.

I thought the stadium that the Phoenix Cardinals play on is real grass - that the literally wheel the entire field outside and let it grow in the Arizona sun (presumably helped by some water from the Colorado River), then bring it back inside on or before gameday?
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 07, 2012, 01:50:57 PM
Quote from: realjd on August 06, 2012, 03:52:26 PM
There are plenty of reasons why artificial turf makes sense in outdoor stadiums. For one thing, in dry climates like Phoenix, it's more environmentally friendly because it doesn't need watering. Also, in cold and cloudy climates, stadiums sometimes have to use artificial lights (like at Emirates Stadium in London below) to keep the grass growing, which is wasteful IMO.

I thought the stadium that the Phoenix Cardinals play on is real grass - that the literally wheel the entire field outside and let it grow in the Arizona sun (presumably helped by some water from the Colorado River), then bring it back inside on or before gameday?

You are correct.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

amroad17

Quote from: texaskdog on July 31, 2012, 08:29:01 AM
I really enjoyed the USFL last time.  Would have been a great league had Trump not destroyed it with the stupid fall move.  Much more exciting football than the boring NFL.  Will give me something to augment my enjoyment of college football.  But they'll have to try hard to follow the original USFL model and not wind up being more like the UFL.
Actually, the USFL was a good league with some really good players.  They did have an exciting brand of football (especially in Houston and Los Angeles) yet still had "traditional" teams (Philadelphia-Baltimore and New Jersey).  The problem they had, besides Trump so gung ho about directly challenging the NFL, was that they expanded too fast.  They went from 12 teams in their inaugural 1983 season to 18 teams in 1984.  Then in 1985 they merged a couple of teams together and ended with 14 teams for that season.  They should have stayed with 12 for at least three or four seasons before even thinking about expanding, assuming the league could have lasted that long.  I actually watched quite a few games the first couple of seasons and enjoyed it.  If anyone is interested in some of the USFL history, watch "Small Potatoes: Who Killed The USFL" on ESPN Classic when they have their 30 for 30 marathons.  The filmaker as well as some of the people he interviewed lean toward Trump as the main reason the USFL folded.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

texaskdog

Trump wanted to be in the fall from day 1 and really killed the whole thing.  I like Trump but he really destroyed the league. 

cpzilliacus

Quote from: amroad17 on August 15, 2012, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on July 31, 2012, 08:29:01 AM
I really enjoyed the USFL last time.  Would have been a great league had Trump not destroyed it with the stupid fall move.  Much more exciting football than the boring NFL.  Will give me something to augment my enjoyment of college football.  But they'll have to try hard to follow the original USFL model and not wind up being more like the UFL.
Actually, the USFL was a good league with some really good players.  They did have an exciting brand of football (especially in Houston and Los Angeles) yet still had "traditional" teams (Philadelphia-Baltimore and New Jersey).  The problem they had, besides Trump so gung ho about directly challenging the NFL, was that they expanded too fast.  They went from 12 teams in their inaugural 1983 season to 18 teams in 1984.  Then in 1985 they merged a couple of teams together and ended with 14 teams for that season.  They should have stayed with 12 for at least three or four seasons before even thinking about expanding, assuming the league could have lasted that long.  I actually watched quite a few games the first couple of seasons and enjoyed it.  If anyone is interested in some of the USFL history, watch "Small Potatoes: Who Killed The USFL" on ESPN Classic when they have their 30 for 30 marathons.  The filmaker as well as some of the people he interviewed lean toward Trump as the main reason the USFL folded.

I was not especially a football fan (then or now,  and not one of the USFL at all), but I recall the spring radio broadcasts of the USFL Washington Federals, and that those broadcasts were "brought to you by your Washington-area AMC/Jeep/Renault Dealers." 

I think it was the only time I ever heard any broadcast sponsored by AMC or its dealers.

Can't say that I ever recall seeing AMC paying for too many commercials on other broadcast media (and  I don't think I ever saw a commercial for the Gremlin, Pacer or Matador on any MLB or NFL or NBA broadcast).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.


Hot Rod Hootenanny

Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

Alps


Hot Rod Hootenanny

Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.