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OLD US-66 routing through NM madness

Started by billtm, June 12, 2016, 11:32:58 PM

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billtm

So according to my Rand McNally (2016) oldest US-66 went from Santa Fe to the Texas border via US-84 from Romeroville to Santa Rosa. :confused: That seems to make absolutely no sense! Just looking at a map, that route is horribly inefficient, especially considering how steep of a North/South slope US-84 takes. Obviously, they later realized and fixed the routing later, but I kinda like the idea of US-66 going through Santa Fe.
So if the route had to go through Santa Fe, why not continue to follow US-85 to Las Vegas and then follow modern-day NM-104 to Tucumcari? This routing would be much more efficient.
My two major questions: :hmmm:
1. Is Rand McNally right?
2. If yes, then why did they duplex US-66 with US-84?


Max Rockatansky

#1
Quote from: billtm on June 12, 2016, 11:32:58 PM
So according to my Rand McNally (2016) oldest US-66 went from Santa Fe to the Texas border via US-84 from Romeroville to Santa Rosa. :confused: That seems to make absolutely no sense! Just looking at a map, that route is horribly inefficient, especially considering how steep of a North/South slope US-84 takes. Obviously, they later realized and fixed the routing later, but I kinda like the idea of US-66 going through Santa Fe.
So if the route had to go through Santa Fe, why not continue to follow US-85 to Las Vegas and then follow modern-day NM-104 to Tucumcari? This routing would be much more efficient.
My two major questions: :hmmm:
1. Is Rand McNally right?
2. If yes, then why did they duplex US-66 with US-84?

Simple; the roads didn't exist like they do today and Santa Fe is the state capital.  You got to understand the US Route system was replacing Auto Trails which were basically what we would call unimproved roads for the most part today.  So basically you didn't necessarily have a direct route between cities, especially out west and the US Routes had to conform to the landscape and roads that were available....mostly, see the saga of US 50 in Nevada for when something totally new had to be built.

So if you're laying out roadway plans in the 1920s why wouldn't you want a major route to go through a state capitol?...especially when there was no direct route to Albuquerque yet?   Governor Hannett was the one that forced the cut-off from Santa Fe to Albuquerque when he lost reelection to basically...well screw over the state legislatures.  Basically the new road was called NM 6 in 1932 and eventually became the realignment of US 66 by 1937....this eliminated the Los Lunas dip south on US 66 as well.  If you want to see something really crazy look up La Bajada Hill, it's almost impossible to think of a major highway using something crazy like that in the sphere of what we think of in regards to modern highways. 

Thankfully Roamin Rich has some good videos on the this subject:





Another old alignment that might interest you is the Oatman Highway being part of US 66 until the 1953 instead of the easy route through Yucca.  Money talked big time with the pre-WWII gold mines back in the early US Route era.

Here are some Map Scans from arizonaroads.com:

US 66 1927:

Arizona

https://www.arizonaroads.com/maps/1926-1.jpg

New Mexico

https://www.arizonaroads.com/maps/1926-2.jpg


1961 Arizona

https://www.arizonaroads.com/maps/1961-1.jpg


And some history on the end points of US 84 as it relates to US 66 alignment being moved in 1937...from USends.com:

http://www.usends.com/Focus/SantaFe/index.html

Not to mention out in California you have the Goffs cut-off that was opened in 1931 to provide a more direct alignment from Essex to Needles which in turn bypassed the town of Goffs.  Even stranger is that the Goffs cut-off is now closed off while the original pre-1931 route remains open to this very day.

Now the real fun begins out west when you realize how many dirt road and derelict bridges were actually parts of US 66 or for that matter just US Routes in general.  US 89 basically has an entire skeleton of it's original alignment in Arizona if you're willing to look hard enough for it.

billtm

Holy crap! :wow: I never would've guessed that LaBajada Hill was part of US-66. I just assumed that it followed modern-day I-25 up the plateau. The road must've been in much better condition back in the 20s in 30s, because I can't believe cars of that time being able to traverse that kind of road.

Where exactly is the Goffs cut-off by the way? Just looking at Google Maps, it seems like the first section of it is the road coming off of exit 115. But I can't seem to find the segment that rejoins US-66. :confused:

So after further research I found out that NM-104 wasn't established over its current routing until the 40s. But theoretically they could've put together some dirt roads in order to fix the routing, right?

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: billtm on June 13, 2016, 11:38:25 AM
Holy crap! :wow: I never would've guessed that LaBajada Hill was part of US-66. I just assumed that it followed modern-day I-25 up the plateau. The road must've been in much better condition back in the 20s in 30s, because I can't believe cars of that time being able to traverse that kind of road.

Where exactly is the Goffs cut-off by the way? Just looking at Google Maps, it seems like the first section of it is the road coming off of exit 115. But I can't seem to find the segment that rejoins US-66. :confused:

So after further research I found out that NM-104 wasn't established over its current routing until the 40s. But theoretically they could've put together some dirt roads in order to fix the routing, right?

Yeah the original grade gets into the 20% plus range.  Basically I would imagine trying to drive across the country in something like a Model A Ford probably would be the trip from hell back in those days.  Weird to think that going out onto the road was a gamble in of itself due to the poor road conditions, not to mention you basically had to have a good mechanical know-how given the dodgy quality of vehicles at the time.

The Goffs cut-off is pretty easy to find.  Here is a map link for the Goffs Cut-Off and the pre-1931 US 66 alignment:

Goffs Cut-Off

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Essex,+CA+92332/Needles,+CA/@34.8375996,-115.2101147,10z/data=!4m19!4m18!1m10!1m1!1s0x80cfc2d303d8d131:0xf934a57c11cacfb4!2m2!1d-115.2449794!2d34.7336097!3m4!1m2!1d-115.1370386!2d34.7953118!3s0x80cfc5a7376f0267:0xe3d1eea64c7b744!1m5!1m1!1s0x80ce2372e1358a33:0x205fa817e10d94f3!2m2!1d-114.6141315!2d34.8480597!3e0?hl=en

-  At some point between 2012 and now this route appears to have had a wash out and was closed down.  You basically come up to a big dirt mound east of Essex where you used to be able to go straight, now you need to turn north on Goffs Road or the pre-1931 alignment.

Pre-1931 route through Goffs

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Essex,+CA+92332/Needles,+CA/@34.8375996,-115.2101147,10z/data=!4m15!4m14!1m5!1m1!1s0x80cfc2d303d8d131:0xf934a57c11cacfb4!2m2!1d-115.2449794!2d34.7336097!1m5!1m1!1s0x80ce2372e1358a33:0x205fa817e10d94f3!2m2!1d-114.6141315!2d34.8480597!3e0!5i1?hl=en

-  Interestingly you can see some former Santa Fe towns like Homer, Ibis and Klienfelter listed on the map.  Basically US 66 followed the Santa Fe line through the California Mojave which had a town roughly every 10 miles for boiler re-watering purposes.  The towns were actually in alphabetically order; Amboy, Bristol, Cadiz, Danby, Essex, Fenner, Goffs, Homer, Ibis, Jaba and Klienfelter heading east to Needles.  Basically all of them are ghost towns today after 66 closed with Amboy, Cadiz, Danby, Essex, Goffs and Jaba having the only trace remains. Amboy is actually a real treat to go see since the town is basically abandoned with the exception of Roy's Cafe and Motel.

You'll find this website to be the ultimate guide to your questions about New Mexico State Highways:

http://www.steve-riner.com/nmhighways/NM101-125.htm

Not much for map data but the guy is fantastic at describing the current routes and historic ones.  His page is by far the best for anything research wise you want to do on New Mexico Highways. He has the entire history on current NM 104 that you're looking for.


rte66man

Remember that the roads were a little better than what you see today after 60 years of zero maintenance:



Although I still wouldn't want to drive it even back then.

When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

texaskdog


rte66man

When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

Max Rockatansky

That site is fantastic, I use it a lot for when I want to find something or just know the back story about a part of 66.  They even go into full detail about the Auto Trails and how they led up the US Route system.  La Bajada is one of my favorite stories relating to 66 along with the Oatman Highway and Californian Mojave.  I think it's unfathomable today what it must have been like to travel between Chicago and Los Angeles back in the heyday before the Intestate.  Back then you really never went too far from where you grew up and basically it would have been like going to a different planet.  My Mom and Grand Parents had some great stories from 1957 when they took US 10 across from Michigan to Seattle, US 101 down to L.A. and 66 back to the midwest by of Chicago one summer.  The biggest detail that any of them could remember was having to strap silk water bags to the front of the car to get across the desert safely just in case the car overheated.  Granted this was all in a 55 Chevy that didn't even have AC or any of the features we're so accustomed too nowadays. 

billtm

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 13, 2016, 10:43:49 PM
The Goffs cut-off is pretty easy to find.  Here is a map link for the Goffs Cut-Off and the pre-1931 US 66 alignment:

Goffs Cut-Off

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Essex,+CA+92332/Needles,+CA/@34.8375996,-115.2101147,10z/data=!4m19!4m18!1m10!1m1!1s0x80cfc2d303d8d131:0xf934a57c11cacfb4!2m2!1d-115.2449794!2d34.7336097!3m4!1m2!1d-115.1370386!2d34.7953118!3s0x80cfc5a7376f0267:0xe3d1eea64c7b744!1m5!1m1!1s0x80ce2372e1358a33:0x205fa817e10d94f3!2m2!1d-114.6141315!2d34.8480597!3e0?hl=en

-  At some point between 2012 and now this route appears to have had a wash out and was closed down.  You basically come up to a big dirt mound east of Essex where you used to be able to go straight, now you need to turn north on Goffs Road or the pre-1931 alignment.

Oh, I assumed I-40 was too modern in its construction style to be part of the goffs cutoff. So I assume its back open again?



english si

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 15, 2016, 09:47:16 AMThat first link is the junction where the Pre-1937 and post 1937 routes meet.
Hence why it's "where the other US66 Historic route runs"  :)

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: english si on June 15, 2016, 01:44:07 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 15, 2016, 09:47:16 AMThat first link is the junction where the Pre-1937 and post 1937 routes meet.
Hence why it's "where the other US66 Historic route runs"  :)

How does a street intersect with itself?...must be the nexus of the universe!


The High Plains Traveler

Thanks for the YouTube videos of driving La Bajada. We have a 4WD full size pickup and found our way to the base of La Bajada, north of the historic Santa Fe River bridge. But, when I saw the road heading for the hill and realized that I could find myself in a situation of having to back down a dangerous incline, I passed on the opportunity. The cows grazing in the field where the road headed for the base of the hill told me I was out of my mind. Now if I'd had a drone...
"Tongue-tied and twisted; just an earth-bound misfit, I."

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on June 15, 2016, 10:36:41 PM
Thanks for the YouTube videos of driving La Bajada. We have a 4WD full size pickup and found our way to the base of La Bajada, north of the historic Santa Fe River bridge. But, when I saw the road heading for the hill and realized that I could find myself in a situation of having to back down a dangerous incline, I passed on the opportunity. The cows grazing in the field where the road headed for the base of the hill told me I was out of my mind. Now if I'd had a drone...

The guy who did those videos actually has some really great off-roading clips from various points along Old 66.  He did one to the Desert Trade Post out west of Petrified Forest National Park, the Padre Canyon Bridge in Arizona, Canyon Diablo and even a dirt section somewhere near Las Vegas, NM.  Dude has some guts to try some of the things he's done but it seems like he has a lot of backup with him.

texaskdog

Seems like you could at least walk it in very little time

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: texaskdog on June 15, 2016, 11:32:19 PM
Seems like you could at least walk it in very little time

If things pan out this year I'll be through 45 of the 47 national parks in the lower 48.  That would leave me an opportunity to do a full 66 road trip on the old alignments in maybe May next year.  I'm figuring that I could try a fast hike where I would basically be more or less running up the hill on the new alignment and down on the old one. 

The High Plains Traveler

I posted on Facebook a scan of part of the 1932 Conoco New Mexico highway map, showing detail of the Albuquerque-Santa Fe area. This is the year U.S. 66-85 was routed onto a new alignment over La Bajada, very close to the current alignment of I-25. I hope you can access this.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=969038776519352&set=gm.1006892326066322&type=3&theater
"Tongue-tied and twisted; just an earth-bound misfit, I."

billtm

Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on June 16, 2016, 01:13:44 PM
I posted on Facebook a scan of part of the 1932 Conoco New Mexico highway map, showing detail of the Albuquerque-Santa Fe area. This is the year U.S. 66-85 was routed onto a new alignment over La Bajada, very close to the current alignment of I-25. I hope you can access this.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=969038776519352&set=gm.1006892326066322&type=3&theater

I wasn't able to access it... :no:

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: billtm on June 16, 2016, 02:33:53 PM
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on June 16, 2016, 01:13:44 PM
I posted on Facebook a scan of part of the 1932 Conoco New Mexico highway map, showing detail of the Albuquerque-Santa Fe area. This is the year U.S. 66-85 was routed onto a new alignment over La Bajada, very close to the current alignment of I-25. I hope you can access this.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=969038776519352&set=gm.1006892326066322&type=3&theater

I wasn't able to access it... :no:

That's a negative for me also.  Maybe try copying the URL of the image location and see if it populates here?

GaryV

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 15, 2016, 09:56:23 PMHow does a street intersect with itself?
There's a car dealership in SE Mich that advertises "at the corner of Commerce and Commerce in Commerce Twp."

The High Plains Traveler

I was afraid that Facebook privacy settings would keep the image from being viewed. Here it is from Flickr, 1932 enlarged area of Albuquerque-Santa Fe. Note U.S. 66-85 is now on the approximate alignment of I-25, with the former La Bajada roadway shown to its west.
Santa Fe 1932 by Steve Riner, on Flickr
"Tongue-tied and twisted; just an earth-bound misfit, I."

DJStephens

#22
Interesting map.  It must be before the 1937 "Straightening" which rerouted US - 66 to run more E-W thus bypassing Santa Fe.   And Los Lunas.  Central Avenue in Albuquerque in the map appears as US - 366.  Directly overlaying the minor route that passed through Barton, Venus, and Otto.  Don't believe any of those places even exist anymore.   Clines Corners' on I-40 is roughly where "Tapia" appears on the map.   

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on June 16, 2016, 06:54:53 PM
I was afraid that Facebook privacy settings would keep the image from being viewed. Here it is from Flickr, 1932 enlarged area of Albuquerque-Santa Fe. Note U.S. 66-85 is now on the approximate alignment of I-25, with the former La Bajada roadway shown to its west.
Santa Fe 1932 by Steve Riner, on Flickr

It's ironic to think that signed or not that US 85 still has managed to survive on that alignment even to today.  The amount of advances that were really made in the first 15 years of the US Route system were really amazing, basically all of the US Routes on that map are showing paved by 1932.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: DJStephens on June 16, 2016, 11:32:48 PM
Interesting map.  It must be before the 1937 "Straightening" which rerouted US - 66 to run more E-W thus bypassing Santa Fe.   And Los Lunas.  Central Avenue in Albuquerque in the map appears as US - 366.  Directly overlaying the minor route that passed through Barton, Venus, and Otto.  Don't believe any of those places even exist anymore.   Clines Corners' on I-40 is roughly where "Tapia" appears on the map.

The 1927 map I showed earlier has even more towns that don't exist anymore.  A lot of them were old rail sidings that gradually went down with the one-two combo of diesel trains and better roads coming into existence.



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