IMO, the headline is something of an exaggeration.WTOP Radio: This E-ZPass error can cost you thousands of dollars (http://www.wtop.com/41/3601766/E-ZPass-error-can-cost-you-thousands)
QuoteWith the 495 Express Lanes more than a year old, and the 95 Express Lanes due to open in early 2015, many confused drivers ask WTOP why their E-ZPass works at bridges, but not on the Express Lanes.
Quote"I took a trip from Fairfax to the Wilmington, Delaware area. My EZ Pass worked at the McHenry Tunnel in Baltimore, at the toll after the Susquehanna Bridge, and at the toll at the Delaware state line. But not on the Express Lanes," writes Ed Surma in an e-mail to WTOP Ticketbuster. "The representative said that my EZ Pass was not mounted correctly. Yes, I had it on the dash because I have two cars, but it worked everywhere else!"
QuoteJust a few days later, we received another similar e-mail.
Quote"I have been seeing your stories about issues with the EZPass and the 495 Express Lanes," writes Patricia Tamez. "My husband and I have received two tickets on the Express Lanes for failure to pay the toll but we have a fully operational toll tag. In both instances we issued a web dispute but both times we were told, 'It appears that your transponder was not read during the trip in question as the transponder was not properly mounted to the windshield, which caused an invoice to be mailed to you.' There is no basis for that reasoning other than their opinion. We haven't had any issues with any other tolls except the Express Lanes."
Quote"The difference between the 495 Express Lanes and other toll facilities in the area is the speed at which you're going those lanes. You're going through the Express Lanes at highway speeds. You're going 65 miles an hour. That means you need to follow the instructions and mount it near the rearview mirror because that's the sweet spot to ensure the E-ZPass will be read," says McGurk.
QuoteThe Maryland Transportation Authority says it has come across similar cases on the Intercounty Connector (ICC), which connects Montgomery County and Prince George's County. The speed limit on the ICC is 60 mph, so like Transurban, MDTA has found cases where an E-ZPass on the dashboard was not read.
If you don't mount it properly and there is a problem on ANY facility, it is YOUR problem. Follow the damn directions. No excuses.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 12, 2014, 09:10:01 PM
If you don't mount it properly and there is a problem on ANY facility, it is YOUR problem. Follow the damn directions. No excuses.
I've seen people driving the ICC and holding up a transponder at each overhead structure, since they apparently could not figure out when were toll collection gantries.
Have also see drivers holding up transponders as they approach the toll barriers on the Dulles Toll Road. There as well, people don't really seem to grasp where the antenna that reads the transponder is located.
How much do additional transponders cost? I know that Fastrak in the SF Bay Area allows you to request up to two additional transponders in addition to the primary one on your account without any cost or additional deposit. I'm wondering because of the following from the article:
QuoteMany drivers leave it on the dashboard because they own multiple cars, although E- ZPass will send free velcro strips for multiple cars.
It depends on the agency you have your account with. With EZPassNJ, you can have 4 transponders free when the account has the auto-replenishment option enabled.
And if these people haven't had issues elsewhere, it doesn't mean the tag wasn't read each time. It could also mean EZ Pass had to look up their account and manually charged the toll on a misread.
A guy I carpool with won't mount his tag to the windshield either. He's a single person; 1 car. He refuses to tell us why he won't mount it. Instead, he holds it up. Sometimes the toll lane is congested, and we go real slow. Even though we've told him the reader is at the beginning of the lane, he continues to holds it up while we sit in the lane, past the overhead reader. When he's next to the message board that blinks 'EZ Pass Paid', it's actually the message for the car behind us!
At some point, people are going to do whatever they want to do. They refuse to want to listen to even basic instructions. They probably argue about everything else in their lives also.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 13, 2014, 05:18:08 AM
It depends on the agency you have your account with. With EZPassNJ, you can have 4 transponders free when the account has the auto-replenishment option enabled.
....
Yup. In Virginia you don't pay an extra fee for the transponder (subject to an exception I will note below), but you do have to deposit additional money. That is, the standard amount you have to have on deposit is $35; when your account drops below a certain amount (I think $10, though I'm not positive), they charge your credit card for the amount needed to top it back up to $35. You can increase the deposit; Dulles Greenway commuters pretty much have to do so or they'd be replenishing two or three times a week. Anyway, if you have a second transponder they double the amount of your deposit. We have two transponders for our three cars and our account has to have $70 on deposit, but we pay no transponder fees. The devices draw from the same pool of money, however (that is, if we drove my TL north to Montreal and paid more than $35 in tolls, the account would not replenish unless we caused it to drop below the minimum).
Exception as to fees: There is currently a monthly fee for NEW accounts, and for replacement transponders, of 50¢ a month for the standard device or $1.00 a month for the E-ZPass Flex. Our devices are grandfathered in at no fee, but if we were to have to replace one due to a dead battery, we would have to pay the fee for that device. The fee is per transponder. However, the General Assembly passed a bill this year, and the governor signed it, directing VDOT to develop a plan to get rid of E-ZPass fees (I don't think there is a timetable for when they must remove the fees, however). So maybe we'll escape the fee.
If people are hesitant to put the Velcro strips on their windshield, you can buy little suction cup-mounted E-ZPass holders on eBay. You affix the holders, which are removable, and then you can slide the E-ZPass right in. If you use your E-ZPass in more than one vehicle, you can buy one holder for each vehicle or you can move the holder from car to car.
I have one in my Saturn Vue. I have the Velcro strips affixed to my truck windshield and to my wife's vehicle.
This presumably is also an issue if the E-ZPass battery dies, so it can happen to someone who follows directions too.
I've also read that the blue tint at the top of windshields can interfere with tag reading, so what if the tint covers the proper mount location?
Per the Facebook discussion, this issue being particular to Virginia is in part due VDOT handling E-ZPass transactions but the toll agency doing license plate transactions. Up here in NY, it wouldn't happen, as the toll agencies handle all transactions, so the plate read would just debit the E-ZPass account with no additional fees. I could foresee this becoming more of an issue after reciprocity agreements expand for interoperability. If the Virginia agencies won't have VDOT check the licence plates to see if they're attached to an account, can you imagine a toll agency contacting every transponder group for the same info?
A few years ago, I had two read failures on Pennsylvania Turnpike facilities in one day. They didn't attempt to see if there was an account associated with my E-ZPass based on their license plate reads. They just sent two separate violation notices, in two separate envelopes (a waste of one first-class postage stamp). The offered remedy was to send proof of an E-ZPass account, which I did by mailing a copy of my West Virginia E-ZPass statement with both violation notices (saving me the cost of one first-class postage stamp). I don't remember if my account was ever debited for those two failures or not.
Apparently it was easier for them to contact Frankfort to get my registration information so they could mail me the violation notices than it would have been to tap a database of E-ZPass tagholders from all states who use E-ZPass or compatible systems. Maybe there isn't a common, shareable database.
Quote from: vdeane on April 13, 2014, 03:34:19 PM
This presumably is also an issue if the E-ZPass battery dies, so it can happen to someone who follows directions too.
I've also read that the blue tint at the top of windshields can interfere with tag reading, so what if the tint covers the proper mount location?
Per the Facebook discussion, this issue being particular to Virginia is in part due VDOT handling E-ZPass transactions but the toll agency doing license plate transactions. Up here in NY, it wouldn't happen, as the toll agencies handle all transactions, so the plate read would just debit the E-ZPass account with no additional fees. I could foresee this becoming more of an issue after reciprocity agreements expand for interoperability. If the Virginia agencies won't have VDOT check the licence plates to see if they're attached to an account, can you imagine a toll agency contacting every transponder group for the same info?
I think VDOT is
supposed to check for a license plate match among E-ZPass users - but - on the other hand, the I-495 HOV/Toll lanes are marked pretty clearly as
E-ZPass only (though as you correctly point out above, the batteries can (and do) die in the transponder units after several years).
That's just crazy: all SunPass transponder instructions specifically state to mount them on the windshield. They've also been rotating out of battery powered transponders for the last few years (mine is not battery powered and has the suction cups for windshield mounting, although the SunPass Mini doesn't).
It seems to me like this is mostly an issue if you don't mount your transponder properly AND don't register the car with your account. If no tag is read, they snap a picture of your license plate, but if the plate is in the EZPass database, they just bill your account rather than sending you a violation.
Quote from: Duke87 on April 13, 2014, 07:08:18 PM
It seems to me like this is mostly an issue if you don't mount your transponder properly AND don't register the car with your account. If no tag is read, they snap a picture of your license plate, but if the plate is in the EZPass database, they just bill your account rather than sending you a violation.
Though I have heard of instances like the one described by H.B. above (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=12093.msg292416#msg292416), where a vehicle owner got a toll violation notice because the toll road operator did not bother to check the list of tags belonging to E-ZPass holders before sending out a notice.
Quote from: DeaconG on April 13, 2014, 04:52:27 PM
That's just crazy: all SunPass transponder instructions specifically state to mount them on the windshield. They've also been rotating out of battery powered transponders for the last few years (mine is not battery powered and has the suction cups for windshield mounting, although the SunPass Mini doesn't).
The E-ZPass instructions say so as well, but evidently a lot of people think they're exempt from following that.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 14, 2014, 08:41:51 AM
Quote from: DeaconG on April 13, 2014, 04:52:27 PM
That's just crazy: all SunPass transponder instructions specifically state to mount them on the windshield. They've also been rotating out of battery powered transponders for the last few years (mine is not battery powered and has the suction cups for windshield mounting, although the SunPass Mini doesn't).
The E-ZPass instructions say so as well, but evidently a lot of people think they're exempt from following that.
Of course. Those instructions are for other people, not them (the offenders).
I remember when I first got my current car I had to hold the EZ Pass up high until I got my new velcro strips. I kinda bought the car on a whim, so I wasn't proactive-- I didn't order velcro strips for the new car ahead of time. This time around, I know and have been planning on getting a new car, so I already ordered new velcro strips for my future car. I have the velcro strips ready to go. I'm just waiting for the phone call from the dealer saying that the car I ordered is in and ready for me to pick up.
Quote from: signalman on April 14, 2014, 10:18:01 AM
I remember when I first got my current car I had to hold the EZ Pass up high until I got my new velcro strips. I kinda bought the car on a whim, so I wasn't proactive-- I didn't order velcro strips for the new car ahead of time. This time around, I know and have been planning on getting a new car, so I already ordered new velcro strips for my future car. I have the velcro strips ready to go. I'm just waiting for the phone call from the dealer saying that the car I ordered is in and ready for me to pick up.
Sounds really hard to get those velcro strips where you are. Last times I needed them, I went to an E-ZPass service center (MD when I was on that state's E-ZPass, VA most recently), and they not only handed me the two strips I needed right away but also gave me several extras just in case.
I know I've told the story about my acquisition of an E-ZPass before. I had ordered from the Peace Bridge because they promised a quick turnaround, yet didn't follow through (my wife was planning a trip into E-ZPass territory and I wanted her to have a transponder). So I took off work one afternoon and drove to Charleston to pick one up. They had bowls and baskets sitting on the counter with the strips in them (not Velcro, but 3M Dual Lock) there, free for the taking, so I grabbed several extras.
Getting the mounting strips shouldn't be too much of a hassle, but I still like the concept of the suction cup holder.
I just got a free K-Tag from Kansas through their Facebook promotion, but it doesn't appear to have any options other than permanently affixing it to a single vehicle's windshield due to the nature of the transponder.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 14, 2014, 11:20:53 AM
They had bowls and baskets sitting on the counter with the strips in them (not Velcro, but 3M Dual Lock) there, free for the taking, so I grabbed several extras.
Yeah, mine are also the 3M Dual Lock, which seems standard for E-ZPass installations. Different from Velcro since both the strip attached to the windshield and the one on the transponder are the same and mesh with each other when joined together, while with Velcro the two strips are different (one with hooks, the other with a cloth-like fabric for the hooks to grab).
Quote from: signalman on April 14, 2014, 10:18:01 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 14, 2014, 08:41:51 AM
Quote from: DeaconG on April 13, 2014, 04:52:27 PM
That's just crazy: all SunPass transponder instructions specifically state to mount them on the windshield. They've also been rotating out of battery powered transponders for the last few years (mine is not battery powered and has the suction cups for windshield mounting, although the SunPass Mini doesn't).
The E-ZPass instructions say so as well, but evidently a lot of people think they're exempt from following that.
Of course. Those instructions are for other people, not them (the offenders).
I remember when I first got my current car I had to hold the EZ Pass up high until I got my new velcro strips. I kinda bought the car on a whim, so I wasn't proactive-- I didn't order velcro strips for the new car ahead of time. This time around, I know and have been planning on getting a new car, so I already ordered new velcro strips for my future car. I have the velcro strips ready to go. I'm just waiting for the phone call from the dealer saying that the car I ordered is in and ready for me to pick up.
Shortly after I first got a Virginia Smart Tag (which looked just like an E-ZPass but was not compatible with said system at the time) I went out to Bluemont with my parents to play golf, riding in their car. They didn't have a Smart Tag so I just taped mine to their windshield with two pieces of masking tape. Worked fine.
I remember back in 2002 or 2003 I had to get a windshield replaced and I was going to ask the Smart Tag office to send me some new mounting strips, but the windshield installer said he could transfer the existing ones (as well as my county sticker and the inspection sticker)–and he did, using an extremely sharp razor blade.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 14, 2014, 01:01:41 PM
Shortly after I first got a Virginia Smart Tag (which looked just like an E-ZPass but was not compatible with said system at the time) I went out to Bluemont with my parents to play golf, riding in their car. They didn't have a Smart Tag so I just taped mine to their windshield with two pieces of masking tape. Worked fine.
Actually, the SmarTag transponders were 100% compatible with E-ZPass (they used the exact same Mark IV technology), but the Virginia governors at the time that it was rolled-out (George Allen and then Jim Gilmore) did not wish to spend money to join the E-ZPass IAG.
Mark Warner, during his term as governor, instructed his secretary of transportation, either Whitt Clement or Pierce Homer, to integrate SmarTag into E-ZPass, and it was done in less than a year.
I believe the last Virginia toll facility to start accepting E-ZPass might have been the CBBT.
Another example of common sense, because where else would you put it?
Quote from: Henry on April 14, 2014, 03:36:48 PM
Another example of common sense, because where else would you put it?
Mark Warner was one of the best governors of Virginia in recent years, right up there with L. Douglas Wilder, Gerald L. Baliles and Linwood Holton.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 14, 2014, 03:16:25 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 14, 2014, 01:01:41 PM
Shortly after I first got a Virginia Smart Tag (which looked just like an E-ZPass but was not compatible with said system at the time) I went out to Bluemont with my parents to play golf, riding in their car. They didn't have a Smart Tag so I just taped mine to their windshield with two pieces of masking tape. Worked fine.
Actually, the SmarTag transponders were 100% compatible with E-ZPass (they used the exact same Mark IV technology), but the Virginia governors at the time that it was rolled-out (George Allen and then Jim Gilmore) did not wish to spend money to join the E-ZPass IAG.
....
Fair enough, but you know what I meant.
From today's Dr. Gridlock online discussion. I submitted the question. I find the beginning of his answer both amusing and slightly disturbing:
Quote
Q.
WTOP's E-ZPass story
Dr. Gridlock, I'm curious what, if any, reaction you might have to the report WTOP ran this morning (it appeared online a few days ago) about people complaining that the 495 Express Lane toll gantries didn't read their E-ZPasses properly. All of the complainers had one thing in common: They didn't follow the instructions about how to mount the device in the proper place on the windshield. They either had the device lying on the dashboard or they tried to hold it in their hand. Of course WTOP came across as sympathetic to these people, but frankly, I don't see why. The instructions are perfectly clear about how to mount the device. You can even use tape to mount it if you need to do so, but it's supposed to be on the windshield unless you have a car whose windshield interferes (in which case they send you a special device that mounts above the front license plate). Why should the authorities have any sympathy for people who refuse to follow directions? Thousands of other E-ZPass users have no trouble mounting the device properly!
A.
Robert Thomson:
One outraged driver wrote to me complaining that he had an E-ZPass and still got a notice of toll due while using the 495 Express Lanes.
He mailed me the photo of his vehicle included in the notice. It showed him fully extending his arm out the driver's side window. His hand gripped the E-ZPass transponder.
I agree with you that the directions are real clear. But not everyone reads directions, whether it's for E-ZPass or a new microwave oven.
One thread in many comments about the express toll lanes is that all-electronic tolling makes drivers nervous. They can't tell when going under the gantries whether their tolls have been recorded.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 14, 2014, 03:55:22 PM
From today's Dr. Gridlock online discussion. I submitted the question. I find the beginning of his answer both amusing and slightly disturbing:
Quote
Q.
WTOP's E-ZPass story
Dr. Gridlock, I'm curious what, if any, reaction you might have to the report WTOP ran this morning (it appeared online a few days ago) about people complaining that the 495 Express Lane toll gantries didn't read their E-ZPasses properly. All of the complainers had one thing in common: They didn't follow the instructions about how to mount the device in the proper place on the windshield. They either had the device lying on the dashboard or they tried to hold it in their hand. Of course WTOP came across as sympathetic to these people, but frankly, I don't see why. The instructions are perfectly clear about how to mount the device. You can even use tape to mount it if you need to do so, but it's supposed to be on the windshield unless you have a car whose windshield interferes (in which case they send you a special device that mounts above the front license plate). Why should the authorities have any sympathy for people who refuse to follow directions? Thousands of other E-ZPass users have no trouble mounting the device properly!
A.
Robert Thomson:
One outraged driver wrote to me complaining that he had an E-ZPass and still got a notice of toll due while using the 495 Express Lanes.
He mailed me the photo of his vehicle included in the notice. It showed him fully extending his arm out the driver's side window. His hand gripped the E-ZPass transponder.
I agree with you that the directions are real clear. But not everyone reads directions, whether it's for E-ZPass or a new microwave oven.
One thread in many comments about the express toll lanes is that all-electronic tolling makes drivers nervous. They can't tell when going under the gantries whether their tolls have been recorded.
I've seen the arm holding the transponder out the window also. I'm waiting for them to throw it at the reader! :-)
Some people think the display (in the traditional lanes) is what reads the EZ Pass.
Personally, the confirmation display is the worst part of the EZ Pass system, because people slow down and read it. In NJ, it used to say "EZ Pass Not Paid" or something to that effect. People would stop, get out of their car, jam up the lane, etc. They switched the message to "Go Toll Unpaid" or something...but at least it got people to keep moving because of the word "Go".
In Maryland at the Kennedy toll plaza, the lights are on constant green.
I wished they never put the confirmation system in, but as the Dr. Gridlock said, people want to see something.
Yeah, I've never liked the displays that used words. I've seen "Go E-ZPass," "E-ZPass Paid," and "E-ZPass Thx." I don't remember whether any of the SunPass facilities I've used had a word-based display.
Reflecting on the HO/T lanes, I wonder how many of the people in question understand that every toll gantry over the HO/T lanes will read the transponder. It's not like the Jersey Turnpike or the Thruway where it reads your device at entry and exit. On the HO/T lanes, the gantries are located above the lanes rather than on the exit ramps and the toll is determined based on the first and last gantry you pass, but every gantry reads your E-ZPass because (of course) they have no way of knowing when you will exit. I would not be surprised to learn that some of the people complaining have held up their E-ZPass at only the first and last gantries.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 14, 2014, 04:22:32 PM
Yeah, I've never liked the displays that used words. I've seen "Go E-ZPass," "E-ZPass Paid," and "E-ZPass Thx." I don't remember whether any of the SunPass facilities I've used had a word-based display.
Reflecting on the HO/T lanes, I wonder how many of the people in question understand that every toll gantry over the HO/T lanes will read the transponder. It's not like the Jersey Turnpike or the Thruway where it reads your device at entry and exit. On the HO/T lanes, the gantries are located above the lanes rather than on the exit ramps and the toll is determined based on the first and last gantry you pass, but every gantry reads your E-ZPass because (of course) they have no way of knowing when you will exit. I would not be surprised to learn that some of the people complaining have held up their E-ZPass at only the first and last gantries.
This makes excellent sense - and is another reason why people should install them on windshields and not use the "hold up" method. Md. 200 also has gantries between all interchanges, and the gantries look pretty much like the other overhead structures.
I suspect members of this forum can tell the sign gantries apart from the gantries with E-ZPass readers installed, but that is likely not the case with many other drivers out there.
At the main Va. 267 (DTR) plaza, I have also observed people hold transponders "upside down" with the labelled side facing the antenna, which
does seem to work, at least there, where the average speeds are relatively low.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 14, 2014, 09:33:31 PM
At the main Va. 267 (DTR) plaza, I have also observed people hold transponders "upside down" with the labelled side facing the antenna, which does seem to work, at least there, where the average speeds are relatively low.
Those people think the transponder scans the UPC bars.
I used to have suction cup based holders. However, when I got the MD tag for the Hatem Bridge to go with my NYS Thruway E-ZPass, I switched to the Velcro in order to be able to quickly swap tags.
How would Pennsylvania know you have a WV EZ Pass? They are interoperable, but each agency has a separate database.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 13, 2014, 03:52:46 PM
A few years ago, I had two read failures on Pennsylvania Turnpike facilities in one day. They didn't attempt to see if there was an account associated with my E-ZPass based on their license plate reads. They just sent two separate violation notices, in two separate envelopes (a waste of one first-class postage stamp). The offered remedy was to send proof of an E-ZPass account, which I did by mailing a copy of my West Virginia E-ZPass statement with both violation notices (saving me the cost of one first-class postage stamp). I don't remember if my account was ever debited for those two failures or not.
Apparently it was easier for them to contact Frankfort to get my registration information so they could mail me the violation notices than it would have been to tap a database of E-ZPass tagholders from all states who use E-ZPass or compatible systems. Maybe there isn't a common, shareable database.
Quote from: DevalDragon on April 15, 2014, 12:52:10 AM
How would Pennsylvania know you have a WV EZ Pass? They are interoperable, but each agency has a separate database.
It is my understanding that there is supposed to be a frequently-updated central database available to all E-ZPass Group members with the license plate number and state of registration for all vehicles (most?) belonging to E-ZPass patrons.
QuoteI believe the last Virginia toll facility to start accepting E-ZPass might have been the CBBT.
Wasn't installed until ca. 2006-07.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 15, 2014, 01:18:35 AM
Quote from: DevalDragon on April 15, 2014, 12:52:10 AM
How would Pennsylvania know you have a WV EZ Pass? They are interoperable, but each agency has a separate database.
It is my understanding that there is supposed to be a frequently-updated central database available to all E-ZPass Group members with the license plate number and state of registration for all vehicles (most?) belonging to E-ZPass patrons.
Correct. The various agencies are all paying members of the EZ Pass InterAgency Group. http://www.e-zpassiag.com/
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 15, 2014, 01:18:35 AM
Quote from: DevalDragon on April 15, 2014, 12:52:10 AM
How would Pennsylvania know you have a WV EZ Pass? They are interoperable, but each agency has a separate database.
It is my understanding that there is supposed to be a frequently-updated central database available to all E-ZPass Group members with the license plate number and state of registration for all vehicles (most?) belonging to E-ZPass patrons.
In this case, the E-ZPass did not register at all on two separate occasions. I don't remember exactly where the non-reads occurred, but I think on that day of travel, I entered the turnpike at Breezewood and exited at Bedford. I then re-entered the turnpike system on PA 43 at Gans Road and followed either Turnpike 43 or the alternate routes in use at the time because Brownsville wasn't complete yet all the way to I-70.
At no point do I ever remember getting a red light or a "not paid" notification, or whatever Pennsylvania uses. I had no way of knowing that my tag was not read because the messaging system at the toll barriers didn't tell me.
Quote from: froggie on April 15, 2014, 06:50:17 AM
QuoteI believe the last Virginia toll facility to start accepting E-ZPass might have been the CBBT.
Wasn't installed until ca. 2006-07.
Indeed, I remember my family went on a trip to Williamsburg in April 2005, and I campaigned (successfully, for once) for us to drive home over the CBBT and up Delmarva rather than going back up 64 to 95. As part of my argument I had promised that the CBBT would accept EZPass... since I had read that Virginia had joined EZPass and, not realizing the intricacies of tolls being handled by various agencies, assumed that meant EZPass would be accepted at any and all tolls in Virginia. We were all surprised to discover, then, that the CBBT only took cash.