Virginia

[1995hoo]

I do not recall anything higher than 60 MPH on the Capital Beltway in the Commonwealth.  Back then, the  Virginia Department of Highways (VDH) loved split speed limits, and the truck limit might have been 55 MPH (but not sure if it was 55 or something else).

Just before opening between I-95 and Van Dorn Street --


It was 65 / 55 when I moved there in 1969.  Remained that until 55 NMSL in 1973.

This is the old picture I recalled, especially because I live near that spot now.

We moved to Fairfax County in 1974 when I was 1 year old, so I don't remember the pre-NMSL era.

[sprjus4]

Back in December 2017, the I-564 Intermodal Connector, also the first piece of the Third Crossing, opened in Norfolk. All of the press releases and articles discussing it mentioned it would only be open for NIT Traffic and by Fall 2018, the ramps to Gate 6 of Norfolk Naval Base and public access to Hampton Blvd would be opened.

Having not heard any information since then, I decided to drive over there to see its progress, and as of September 14, 2019, almost 2 years after it opened, the ramps to Gate 6 and Hampton Blvd are still under construction and not opened. The only movement you can do is turn around at the NIT ramp (it's designed to easily do a U-Turn before getting to the gate) or go to NIT itself.

Barriers are still up on the mainline in places and mostly only one lane with the other coned off.

There's signs on the connector referencing Hampton Blvd and Gate 6 and arrows pointing to the exit, but are all blocked by barriers and cones, and the lanes aren't even striped heading to them. There's also a VMS that says "Truck Inspection Station - CLOSED, Gate 6 - Closed". Additionally, the speed limit is still at 35 mph, as originally set when it opened in 2017.

No idea when it's projected to actually be fully completed.

[Beltway]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/395-express-lanes-on-track-to-open-in-november/2019/09/14/78427262-d4a1-11e9-86ac-0f250cc91758_story.html

395 Express Lanes on track to open in November
9-14-2019
Excerpts:

The commutes of thousands of Washington-area residents will change this fall when tolling begins on an eight-mile stretch of Interstate 395 in Northern Virginia, one of the busiest gateways into the nation's capital.

The reversible, high-occupancy toll (HOT) lanes set to open in November will be the latest addition to the region's growing network of toll roads.

The 395 Express Lanes will replace today's high-occupancy-vehicle (HOV) lanes, which stretch from near Edsall Road in Fairfax County to the 14th Street Bridge in the District.  The lanes will be an extension of the 95 Express Lanes, which operate 24 hours a day, seven days a week and stretch 31 miles between Fairfax and Stafford counties.  The non-HOV lanes will remain and will continue to be free.

With the $480 million 395 Express Lanes project, Northern Virginia's network of HOT lanes will grow to 63 miles.  About 55 miles of express lanes have opened on interstates 495, 95 and 66 in the past seven years, and the state envisions more than 90 miles of HOT lanes in Northern Virginia by 2022.
........

Virginia authorities this year announced an agreement with Transurban to extend the 495 Express Lanes, now 14 miles, by three miles, to the American Legion Bridge.

Transurban forecasts high demand for the toll lanes.  A survey in May commissioned by the company found that nearly 7 in 10 people who use the I-395 corridor said they plan to use the express lanes at least occasionally.

See the URL for the rest.

The last paragraph, I can certainly believe that will be the case.

This is the first time I saw that the I-495 extension is under contract.  Now Maryland needs to get in gear and build its I-495 express or HOT lanes between Virginia and I-270!

[sprjus4]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/395-express-lanes-on-track-to-open-in-november/2019/09/14/78427262-d4a1-11e9-86ac-0f250cc91758_story.html

395 Express Lanes on track to open in November
9-14-2019
Excerpts:

The commutes of thousands of Washington-area residents will change this fall when tolling begins on an eight-mile stretch of Interstate 395 in Northern Virginia, one of the busiest gateways into the nation's capital.

The reversible, high-occupancy toll (HOT) lanes set to open in November will be the latest addition to the region's growing network of toll roads.

The 395 Express Lanes will replace today's high-occupancy-vehicle (HOV) lanes, which stretch from near Edsall Road in Fairfax County to the 14th Street Bridge in the District.  The lanes will be an extension of the 95 Express Lanes, which operate 24 hours a day, seven days a week and stretch 31 miles between Fairfax and Stafford counties.  The non-HOV lanes will remain and will continue to be free.

With the $480 million 395 Express Lanes project, Northern Virginia's network of HOT lanes will grow to 63 miles.  About 55 miles of express lanes have opened on interstates 495, 95 and 66 in the past seven years, and the state envisions more than 90 miles of HOT lanes in Northern Virginia by 2022.
........

Virginia authorities this year announced an agreement with Transurban to extend the 495 Express Lanes, now 14 miles, by three miles, to the American Legion Bridge.

Transurban forecasts high demand for the toll lanes.  A survey in May commissioned by the company found that nearly 7 in 10 people who use the I-395 corridor said they plan to use the express lanes at least occasionally.

See the URL for the rest.

The last paragraph, I can certainly believe that will be the case.

This is the first time I saw that the I-495 extension is under contract.  Now Maryland needs to get in gear and build its I-495 express or HOT lanes between Virginia and I-270!

Currently, HOV-3 is only in effect on weekends only from 6-9am and 3-6pm, and open to all traffic during all other times. Once these lanes open and are rebranded under private Transurban's "Express Lanes" , the restriction will be 24/7, which will likely result in additional traffic being dumped into the mainlines, and essentially screw anybody who used them previously free off-peak. The same thing happened here in Hampton Roads when they extended the hours from 7-9am to 4-6pm to 5-9am to 2-6pm according to a traffic analysis conducted by HRTPO, more traffic congestion in the mainlines and less HO/T lane usage than previous HOV usage during 5-7am and 2-4pm, but more HO/T lane usage than previous HOV lane usage from 7-9am and 4-6pm.

So essentially, if Transurban's I-95 and I-395 Express Lanes were only tolled 6-9am and 3-6pm on weekdays, and free to all during other times, like the original, that would likely reduce to less congestion on the mainlines and more usage of the HO/T lanes during off peak.

Traffic congestion significantly increased on the northern section of I-95 outside the beltway during off-peak hours when Transurban's Express Lanes opened, and the US-1 / VA-123 interchange area is one of the worst spots.

But since Transurban would loose money and not make as much profit, that's not even an option. Another issue with the P3 concept, changes like that aren't even considerable, unlike here in Hampton Roads where HRTPO is currently evaluating changing hours (due to the traffic analysis I posted above), and even looking at making some of the current under construction HO/T lanes into free lanes.

[Beltway]

Good grief, you just can't help yourself.  A few days ago you were bemoaning the controversy and now you just start it up again.  Just because the world doesn't work the way you think it should.

[sprjus4]

Just because the world doesn't work the way you think it should.

It doesn't work they way you want it to either. Not everyone loves HO/T lanes and are as deeply invested as you seem to be. And the opposite is true when you oppose a highway project / concept (see below) and it still is built / implemented & supported by others. I'm going to voice my opinion when the issue comes up, just as you say - that's how forums work. You do the exact same thing. It doesn't work one way. There's no double standard. If I brought up a topic about I-87 on the I-87, North Carolina, or even Virginia board, you'd come on spewing how it's vanity.

[1995hoo]

[AlexandriaVA]

As a practical matter, the soon-to-be imposed restrictions won't really affect anyone who hasn't already been affected:

*People going south of Alexandria already had to deal with the 24x7 off-peak restrictions anyways (once they hit the Turkeycock transition point).

*There's not a large market for intra-Arlington/Alexandria HOV off-peak travel anyways (I ought to know, I'd be a potential user of it). You're talking basically from DC/Pentagon to Shirlington, given the arrangements of the exits. That's such a short distance that it's really of no particular use.

EDIT: On very rare occasions, an accident in the mainline lanes off-peak *COULD* make the HOV carriageway a convenient way to get from DC/Pentagon to Shirlington, but in reality, I don't like taking the HOV carriageway if possible, because you're stuck there (whereas on the mainline you have more exit options (Glebe Rd, Shirlington, King St).

[roadman65]

 Got ?These two are endless entertainment.

[sprjus4]

As a practical matter, the soon-to-be imposed restrictions won't really affect anyone who hasn't already been affected:

*People going south of Alexandria already had to deal with the 24x7 off-peak restrictions anyways (once they hit the Turkeycock transition point).

*There's not a large market for intra-Arlington/Alexandria HOV off-peak travel anyways (I ought to know, I'd be a potential user of it). You're talking basically from DC/Pentagon to Shirlington, given the arrangements of the exits. That's such a short distance that it's really of no particular use.

EDIT: On very rare occasions, an accident in the mainline lanes off-peak *COULD* make the HOV carriageway a convenient way to get from DC/Pentagon to Shirlington, but in reality, I don't like taking the HOV carriageway if possible, because you're stuck there (whereas on the mainline you have more exit options (Glebe Rd, Shirlington, King St).

It would affect what's leftover, and the I-95 transition back in ~2014 also did the same thing. My comment refers to both.

I still have yet to see a good reason why the previously-free lanes should not be open to all traffic outside of peak hours besides making more $$$ for Transurban.

The I-64 reversible lanes in Hampton Roads were free to all outside of peak hours, and while the HO/T lane conversion extended the hours slightly, it's still free outside those hours to all traffic and on weekends & holidays.

but in reality, I don't like taking the HOV carriageway if possible, because you're stuck there (whereas on the mainline you have more exit options (Glebe Rd, Shirlington, King St).

It's the same way here for the ~7 mile reversible lanes in Hampton Roads, there's only entrance / exit points at the two termini (I-264 / I-64, and I-564 / I-64). You miss the exits for Northampton Blvd, Military Hwy, Norview Ave, Chesapeake Blvd, Tidewater Dr, and Little Creek Rd. They're still very beneficial to use even without local access, and I frequently use them, even when they're tolled because it's only $0.50 - $2.00. It's generally full but moving during peak hours, and well used outside of peak hours. The speed limit is also posted at 65 mph while the general purpose lanes are only 55 mph, similar to at least I-95's lanes, I'm unsure what is regularly posted inside the beltway.

EDIT - And you still are affecting people, even if they used it south of I-95. Today outside peak hours, you could pay a toll for the I-95 portion, and then continue for free inside the beltway. Now, you have to pay more to use the portion that was previously free inside the beltway.

[1995hoo]

I'll certainly miss the free access to the express lanes during non-rush periods. We used the express lanes regularly in the 10 PM timeframe coming back from Caps games, although during the last few years the constant road work on I-395 has led us to use I-295 more often.

[AlexandriaVA]

I'll certainly miss the free access to the express lanes during non-rush periods. We used the express lanes regularly in the 10 PM timeframe coming back from Caps games, although during the last few years the constant road work on I-395 has led us to use I-295 more often.

How much time was that really saving you though? 1 or 2 minutes between 14th Street Bridge and Turkeycock?

[sprjus4]

I'll certainly miss the free access to the express lanes during non-rush periods. We used the express lanes regularly in the 10 PM timeframe coming back from Caps games, although during the last few years the constant road work on I-395 has led us to use I-295 more often.

How much time was that really saving you though? 1 or 2 minutes between 14th Street Bridge and Turkeycock?

Kicking vehicles out of the lanes simply adds more to the general purpose lanes and provides less capacity. So while it does favors during rush hour by allowing the existing users + SOV toll traffic to use it, it actually reduces the overall capacity outside of rush hour. The same thing happened here in Hampton Roads when the hours were extended, it was even admitted in data collected by the HRTPO. I'd be curious to see a similar study conducted on Transurban's Express Lanes and the impact outside of rush hour to the general purpose lanes.

[1995hoo]

I'll certainly miss the free access to the express lanes during non-rush periods. We used the express lanes regularly in the 10 PM timeframe coming back from Caps games, although during the last few years the constant road work on I-395 has led us to use I-295 more often.

How much time was that really saving you though? 1 or 2 minutes between 14th Street Bridge and Turkeycock?

It's not just time. It's also the higher speed limit. No chance of a ticket at 70 mph in the express lanes where it's 65.

[AlexandriaVA]

Fair point, given that you're going down to Springfield...for me going to shirlington, I'd barely even have a chance to get to speed before my exit arrives...

I'll certainly miss the free access to the express lanes during non-rush periods. We used the express lanes regularly in the 10 PM timeframe coming back from Caps games, although during the last few years the constant road work on I-395 has led us to use I-295 more often.

How much time was that really saving you though? 1 or 2 minutes between 14th Street Bridge and Turkeycock?

It's not just time. It's also the higher speed limit. No chance of a ticket at 70 mph in the express lanes where it's 65.

[Beltway]

Just because the world doesn't work the way you think it should.

It doesn't work they way you want it to either. Not everyone loves HO/T lanes and are as deeply invested as you seem to be.

I should be able to post an article about the soon-opening of 8 miles of Interstate widening without the same person acting like I am throwing chum on the waters, then posting with the same talking points that have been beaten to death over the last 2 years.

The decision to build a 100+ mile system of express lanes was made years ago.  As far as you having to pay to use them in the off hours, you don't have to use them.  I paid $16.60 to use the I-95 NB HOT lanes on Friday morning entering just after 8:00 am.  I like that and so do umpteen thousand other people, and I want to keep having that option.  Traffic wasn't even all that bad on the GP lanes as far as any major congestion, but they can be used for free.

[Beltway]

Kicking vehicles out of the lanes simply adds more to the general purpose lanes and provides less capacity. So while it does favors during rush hour by allowing the existing users + SOV toll traffic to use it, it actually reduces the overall capacity outside of rush hour.

Nonsense.  They can still use the HOT lanes if they want and for the lower off-peak tolls so nobody is getting "kicked out".  If you are HOV-3+ you ride for free.  All lanes still have the same 2,000 to 2,200 VPL per hour.

[Beltway]

It's not just time. It's also the higher speed limit. No chance of a ticket at 70 mph in the express lanes where it's 65.

Much wider spacing between access points, and much easier and less stressful ride due to that express feature.  And the higher speed limits as you say.

[sprjus4]

I should be able to post an article about the soon-opening of 8 miles of Interstate widening without the same person acting like I am throwing chum on the waters, then posting with the same talking points that have been beaten to death over the last 2 years.

A little hypocritical much?

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18354.0

I like that and so do umpteen thousand other people, and I want to keep having that option.

The exact same thing that umpteen thousand other people, and I said about the previously-free lanes outside of peak hours.

Just because thousands of people and you support HO/T lanes and 24/7 tolling, doesn't mean that there's also not that number supporting the exact opposite.

Nonsense.  They can still use the HOT lanes if they want and for the lower off-peak tolls so nobody is getting "kicked out".  If you are HOV-3+ you ride for free.  All lanes still have the same 2,000 to 2,200 VPL per hour.

If someone who previously would use the lane for free outside of peak hours when it was HOV decides they won't use it because it's tolled now, then you are effectively kicking that person out of the lanes.

This has been proven here in Hampton Roads, once they extended the hours slightly, the previously-free hours experienced less traffic in the managed lanes, and more congestion in the mainlines. HRTPO's traffic data proves this.

Much wider spacing between access points, and much easier and less stressful ride due to that express feature.  And the higher speed limits as you say.

Exactly. And currently free during off-peak and beneficial for the traveler during those times for free. Now they will be forced to pay for something that was previously free, or use the general purpose lanes which has none of those features.

When they converted the previously free HOV lanes to HO/T in Hampton Roads, they left them still free outside of peak hours, only tolled during previous-HOV hours + a couple additional hours. Still very nice to use outside peak hours for -free-.

[AlexandriaVA]

Nobody around here, at least that I know, complains about the HOT/HOV arrangement. I think this is all just the work of a single poster who has an ideological axe to grind.

For better or worse, the decision on the future of tolled highways in Northern VA has been determined; I don't deny that things may be different down in Hampton Roads, but frankly I really couldn't care less about that corner of the state.

[sprjus4]

Nobody around here, at least that I know, complains about the HOT/HOV arrangement.

It was interesting to read the comment forum submitted to VDOT when the I-495 / I-95 lanes were being implemented. Lots of opposition (and support), and I've still heard complaints about it. I have family in the area, and they oppose it. I know a few locals as well through family, and it's mixed - some don't care about the issue, some like them, and some preferred the old arrangement.

And there's people (probably a lot of them) that don't discuss it, but personally do not agree with it.

There's always going to be a mixed opinion on something as controversial as this. There's supporters, there's opposers. It's not one or the other. Just because I'm opposed to it and a few members here support it certainly does not put me in the minority.

And just as much as I may have "an axe to grind"  by opposing it "so much" , the same goes for the posters who seem to defend it at all costs when something negative is posted about it and support it 300%.

[Beltway]

I should be able to post an article about the soon-opening of 8 miles of Interstate widening without the same person acting like I am throwing chum on the waters, then posting with the same talking points that have been beaten to death over the last 2 years.

A little hypocritical much?

I thought we decided openly here that we were going to avoid controversy as much as possible, due to the massive amount of space that it had taken up.  I shared some e-mails with the moderator that has spoken here and said that is what I hoped to do. 

I can post thousand word posts as well as most people, and many of them.  Is that what you want or do we decide to look at the needs of the whole forum?

[jeffandnicole]

I'll certainly miss the free access to the express lanes during non-rush periods. We used the express lanes regularly in the 10 PM timeframe coming back from Caps games, although during the last few years the constant road work on I-395 has led us to use I-295 more often.

How much time was that really saving you though? 1 or 2 minutes between 14th Street Bridge and Turkeycock?

It's not just time. It's also the higher speed limit. No chance of a ticket at 70 mph in the express lanes where it's 65.

Anyone actually gotten a ticket for going 70 in the 55 zone?

[1995hoo]

I'll certainly miss the free access to the express lanes during non-rush periods. We used the express lanes regularly in the 10 PM timeframe coming back from Caps games, although during the last few years the constant road work on I-395 has led us to use I-295 more often.

How much time was that really saving you though? 1 or 2 minutes between 14th Street Bridge and Turkeycock?

It's not just time. It's also the higher speed limit. No chance of a ticket at 70 mph in the express lanes where it's 65.

Anyone actually gotten a ticket for going 70 in the 55 zone?

I don't know. I've seen people pulled over on I-395, but I don't know how fast they were going or whether they were doing something else. Statistically the chances of getting pulled over are quite low, and there are enough people doing 75+ that most cops are probably more likely to go after them to write a reckless ticket.



There are definitely people out there who oppose the HO/T lanes on all the roads that have them, but most of their complaints consist of uninformed screeds and sometimes utterly moronic comments like "they're unconstitutional." To put it differently–regardless of whether any of us may agree or disagree with sprjus4's or Beltway's opinions on the HO/T lanes, and regardless of whether the two of them may tend to echo the same points repeatedly, certainly their positions are more rational and better-thought-out than a lot of the crap that's been posted elsewhere over the past few years. One of the ones that I found most pathetic was some idiot posting on Dr. Gridlock's now-defunct blog who claimed the I-495 HO/T lanes "ruined the Beltway," though he never explained how or why they allegedly "ruined" the Beltway. That made no sense to me, seeing as how the Beltway has exactly the same number of general-purpose lanes it had before (plus one extra lane, on the Inner Loop from I-66 to Tysons), and the only things that no longer exist are (1) the old left-side general-purpose exit from the Inner Loop to I-66 West and (2) the ability to use the C/D roads as thru lanes on the Outer Loop at Braddock and the Inner Loop at Route 7 (in both cases because the C/D roads no longer run all the way through the interchanges due to elimination of a loop ramp to accommodate HO/T ramps).

Or there was the time an anchor on the 10:00 news on Channel 5 called the HO/T lanes a "scam" following a report about some woman who was in big trouble for unpaid toll bills. But the report they had just aired mentioned multiple times that her "defense," such as it was, focused on the argument that "I don't think I should have to pay this." Instead of calling the operation a scam, how about recognizing that she was just a dumbass? As I've said before in the HO/T lanes thread, surely receiving the initial bill in the mail with the $12.50 per trip surcharge ought to be enough to prompt most rational people to deal with the matter so the costs don't escalate. Right?

[Beltway]

Nobody around here, at least that I know, complains about the HOT/HOV arrangement. I think this is all just the work of a single poster who has an ideological axe to grind.
For better or worse, the decision on the future of tolled highways in Northern VA has been determined; I don't deny that things may be different down in Hampton Roads, but frankly I really couldn't care less about that corner of the state.

The D.C. area has far greater traffic demand, and far higher average salaries and wages (i.e. those tolls don't look so high to many in that area), and the D.C. area has the heavy thru traffic component that H.R. is almost lacking.  A lot of those people on I-95 and I-495 are thru and occasional movements (like me on Friday and today for a trip to western NY) .  A lot of those commuters make six figure salaries which are barely above average for the D.C. area.

You really can't compare the two areas, and my support of HOV or HOT lanes in the H.R. area is tepid at best, it could go either way as far as I am concerned.

I used to ride I-95 HOV for free in the off-hours, and now usually pay to use, and frankly it hasn't occurred to me to complain about paying.  It is all part of the funding complex to support the facility and that includes paying higher tolls so that the HOV-3+ can ride for free.  The time estimate VMS signs are frequent enough to estimate if there is any GP delay before deciding whether to enter the HOT lanes.