How do you define the Midwest?

[hbelkins]

Meanwhile, Cincinnati, and much of southern Ohio, for that matter - hello, Hocking Hills - feels more southern than midwestern and could pass for Kentucky or West Virginia but is worlds away from the Great Plains.

And yet Cincinnati is the "queen city of the west".

Funny that you say that. There are a number of people who cite northern Kentucky and Louisville's proximity to Ohio and Indiana as reasons for Kentucky being more midwestern than southern.

Kentucky feels more Appalachian than either southern or midwestern to me, personally.

[NWI_Irish96]

Meanwhile, Cincinnati, and much of southern Ohio, for that matter - hello, Hocking Hills - feels more southern than midwestern and could pass for Kentucky or West Virginia but is worlds away from the Great Plains.

And yet Cincinnati is the "queen city of the west".

Funny that you say that. There are a number of people who cite northern Kentucky and Louisville's proximity to Ohio and Indiana as reasons for Kentucky being more midwestern than southern.

Kentucky feels more Appalachian than either southern or midwestern to me, personally.

The problem is that the change is gradual and not sharp.

Central Indiana is a bit more southern than northern Indiana.
Southern Indiana is a bit more southern than central Indiana.
Kentucky is a bit more southern than southern Indiana.
Tennessee is a bit more southern than Kentucky.

There's no obvious place, save the Ohio River, to draw a line between Midwest and South.

[webny99]

Honestly, I'm curious to know if y'all consider the UP to be part of the Midwest.  Or is it just the Mitten?

Yes, by virtue of being part of Michigan. But, as I've said, if anyone from Michigan - either peninsula - considers themselves to be from the Great Lakes and separates that in their mind from the Midwest, I get it.

[kphoger]

The problem is that the change is gradual and not sharp.

Central Indiana is a bit more southern than northern Indiana.
Southern Indiana is a bit more southern than central Indiana.
Kentucky is a bit more southern than southern Indiana.
Tennessee is a bit more southern than Kentucky.

There's no obvious place, save the Ohio River, to draw a line between Midwest and South.

In Illinois, it's somewhere between Effingham and Mount Vernon.

Source:  sweet tea vs unsweet tea at McDonald's

[minneha]

I'm sure many of you are familiar with the U.S. Census Bureau's Census Regions. I really admire the simplicity of the groupings and think it works pretty well for a four-region division in a country as diverse and large as the United States. It's the basic four-region division: West, Midwest, South, and Northeast. The West is the 11 westernmost states in the lower 48, plus Alaska and Hawaii. The Midwest is the 12-state region from North Dakota to Kansas and then east to Ohio. The South is from Oklahoma and Texas east to Maryland and Delaware, including D.C. and West Virginia. The Northeast is Pennsylvania and New Jersey north to Maine.

It does work pretty well as a way to divide the country along state lines. I honestly wouldn't change a single thing about the West or Midwest groupings. The only thing I would maybe change would be to put Delaware, Maryland, and D.C. in the Northeast. But that's debatable.

Places on the periphery of their region are going to feel less like the core of their region, whether it's eastern Ohio feeling Northeastern or southern Missouri feeling Southern or northern Oklahoma feeling Midwestern. But I still think when looking at it from the vantage point of where does this state belong, Ohio and Missouri are Midwest states and Oklahoma is a Southern state, just as the Census Bureau places them. Even just from a pure geographic standpoint, Oklahoma is way further south than any Midwest state.

[freebrickproductions]

I've honestly always defined the Dakotas as being more along the lines of the "northern plains" rather than part of the midwest.

[thspfc]

My definition of the Midwest:

Relatively flat topography
Neutral American accent with a trend towards elongated vowels
Agriculture dominates rural areas
As kphoger said, culinary traditions include things like casserole, jello/fruit salad, ranch/French dressing, puppy chow
Lack of diversity (largely Caucasian) in rural areas
Small towns with lots of brick buildings on the main street
General friendliness and willingness to talk to anyone at anytime about any topic
Delayed goodbyes when leaving events
The use of the word "Ope"
Higher incidence of Pop vs. Soda


I'm sure I could come up with more.

I would add excessive door holding and being offended when someone has better things to do than make small talk with you.

I'm sure many of you are familiar with the U.S. Census Bureau's Census Regions. I really admire the simplicity of the groupings and think it works pretty well for a four-region division in a country as diverse and large as the United States. It's the basic four-region division: West, Midwest, South, and Northeast. The West is the 11 westernmost states in the lower 48, plus Alaska and Hawaii. The Midwest is the 12-state region from North Dakota to Kansas and then east to Ohio. The South is from Oklahoma and Texas east to Maryland and Delaware, including D.C. and West Virginia. The Northeast is Pennsylvania and New Jersey north to Maine.

It does work pretty well as a way to divide the country along state lines. I honestly wouldn't change a single thing about the West or Midwest groupings. The only thing I would maybe change would be to put Delaware, Maryland, and D.C. in the Northeast. But that's debatable.

Places on the periphery of their region are going to feel less like the core of their region, whether it's eastern Ohio feeling Northeastern or southern Missouri feeling Southern or northern Oklahoma feeling Midwestern. But I still think when looking at it from the vantage point of where does this state belong, Ohio and Missouri are Midwest states and Oklahoma is a Southern state, just as the Census Bureau places them. Even just from a pure geographic standpoint, Oklahoma is way further south than any Midwest state.

My thoughts exactly.

[kphoger]

Maybe the bigger problem is that we don't really have a region called "The North".

[kphoger]

I would add excessive door holding ...

We all still remember one time that our best friend spent literally more than an hour standing in the doorway, with his hand on the doorknob, occasionally even with one foot out the door.

[thspfc]

Maybe the bigger problem is that we don't really have a region called "The North".

I think the only states that would fit with each other in such a region would be MN, WI, and MI. The Dakotas have more in common with all their other neighbors than they do with the above three states - they're unquestionably Plains. Anything west of the Dakotas is distinctly western. All the northeastern states are more similar to each other than to anyone else.

If you were to expand the "north" southward, you'd have to include IL, IN, and OH, and now you have . . . the Midwest (or the Great Lakes subset of it).

[tdindy88]

Maybe the bigger problem is that we don't really have a region called "The North".

History books sure mentioned "The North" a lot in the prelude to the Civil War. Arguably, "The North" would be the Midwest plus the Northeastern states. Way too broad of a region to classify as one region however.

As for the Midwest, I'd look at the footprint of Menards stores. That's a pretty close representation of the Midwestern region as a whole.

[Flint1979]

Maybe the bigger problem is that we don't really have a region called "The North".

History books sure mentioned "The North" a lot in the prelude to the Civil War. Arguably, "The North" would be the Midwest plus the Northeastern states. Way too broad of a region to classify as one region however.

As for the Midwest, I'd look at the footprint of Menards stores. That's a pretty close representation of the Midwestern region as a whole.

I'm not sure if you could use Menard's as a footprint or not because they have locations in Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

[Flint1979]

When you put it like that, 85% and 78% for Michigan and Ohio respectively seems too high.

Not surprising, considering my personal history.  I've never been to Ohio (other than through the very southern parts on Amtrak), and the only two nights I've spent in Michigan were during the same hitchhiking trip.  Meanwhile, I've lived my whole life in Illinois and Kansas.

Honestly, I'm curious to know if y'all consider the UP to be part of the Midwest.  Or is it just the Mitten?

Being from Michigan and knowing a lot about the state yes I consider both peninsulas of Michigan to be in the Midwest.

[Flint1979]

Honestly, I'm curious to know if y'all consider the UP to be part of the Midwest.  Or is it just the Mitten?

Yes, by virtue of being part of Michigan. But, as I've said, if anyone from Michigan - either peninsula - considers themselves to be from the Great Lakes and separates that in their mind from the Midwest, I get it.

I consider myself to be from the Midwest.

[kphoger]

Before this forum, I had never really thought of the Great Lakes or the Great Plains to be regions of the US.

The Great Plains were just part of the Midwest.

But what to call the area between northwestern Ohio and the Eastern Seaboard?  I did not have any vocabulary to say.  It was a kind of no-man's-land in my mind.

FWIW, for the twelve hours or so that I spent in the UP, it didn't really seem like the Midwest to me.  But, by the time I got to Paw Paw that next night, it felt like the Midwest again.

[US 89]

In common language down here, there is in fact a region of "the North". It pretty much encompasses anything not in the Census Bureau's South or West regions.

Here's a question that I often wonder the answer to. There are a lot of "gatekeepers" out there who will tell you the Dakotas and Nebraska etc. absolutely should not count as Midwest and are simply their own plains region. Where do these people live? In my experience, the people with strong opinions on this not only don't live in those midwestern plains region, but they don't even live in other parts of the Midwest. They tend to live in places like the Northeast.

[kendancy66]

AK and FL are different, and they're both in the South.

Wait, what?

I have often noticed, that it is pretty common that the postal state initials, for Alaska (AK) and Arkansas (AR) , get mixed up

[bm7]

When you put it like that, 85% and 78% for Michigan and Ohio respectively seems too high.

Not surprising, considering my personal history.  I've never been to Ohio (other than through the very southern parts on Amtrak), and the only two nights I've spent in Michigan were during the same hitchhiking trip.  Meanwhile, I've lived my whole life in Illinois and Kansas.

Honestly, I'm curious to know if y'all consider the UP to be part of the Midwest.  Or is it just the Mitten?

I don't consider the UP, or northern Minnesota/Wisconsin to be Midwestern. Once you go north into the seemingly endless forests of pine and spruce, it feels like you're in a very different area.

[freebrickproductions]

When you put it like that, 85% and 78% for Michigan and Ohio respectively seems too high.

Not surprising, considering my personal history.  I've never been to Ohio (other than through the very southern parts on Amtrak), and the only two nights I've spent in Michigan were during the same hitchhiking trip.  Meanwhile, I've lived my whole life in Illinois and Kansas.

Honestly, I'm curious to know if y'all consider the UP to be part of the Midwest.  Or is it just the Mitten?

I don't consider the UP, or northern Minnesota/Wisconsin to be Midwestern. Once you go north into the seemingly endless forests of pine and spruce, it feels like you're in a very different area.

Sub-Canada?

[The Nature Boy]

Delayed goodbyes when leaving events

This ritual begins by one party slapping his thighs and exclaiming, "Welp! ..."  Standing up from the couch at that point may promptly ensue—but not necessarily—though sitting back down again is still likely.

People call this Midwestern but I've definitely seen this in the South too.

Meanwhile, Cincinnati, and much of southern Ohio, for that matter - hello, Hocking Hills - feels more southern than midwestern and could pass for Kentucky or West Virginia but is worlds away from the Great Plains.

And yet Cincinnati is the "queen city of the west".

And St. Louis is obviously "Gateway to the West".

I don't think everything west of those cities is THE West.

These both feel like anachronisms of America's westward expansion. Basically anywhere west of the Appalachians was called "the West" at one point of another.

[Flint1979]

I certainly still feel in the Midwest when I'm in the U.P. and I've been all over the U.P. it's really not that much different than the northern lower peninsula. I don't know what other part of the country it would feel like. Northern Minnesota, Wisconsin and the U.P. have a lot in common.

[hotdogPi]

Are there any "holes" in the Midwest similar to this statement about a hole in a different region?

The difference between Charlotte and Atlanta is that Charlotte is a big city in the South and Atlanta is a big city surrounded by the South. 

[US 89]

Are there any "holes" in the Midwest similar to this statement about a hole in a different region?

The difference between Charlotte and Atlanta is that Charlotte is a big city in the South and Atlanta is a big city surrounded by the South. 

I lived in Atlanta for four years and that statement is 100% false in every aspect. Atlanta is a solidly Southern city unless you think "south" can only refer to poorer rural areas. Charlotte, while still at its core a southern city, is starting to get some amount of northeastern culture import from people moving down there, similar to many of the other large cities in NC. That hasn't quite happened with Atlanta yet at least to the degree it has in NC. Atlanta might be more bigger and more cosmopolitan but to suggest that means it isn't the South is just wrong.

[vdeane]

In common language down here, there is in fact a region of "the North". It pretty much encompasses anything not in the Census Bureau's South or West regions.

Here's a question that I often wonder the answer to. There are a lot of "gatekeepers" out there who will tell you the Dakotas and Nebraska etc. absolutely should not count as Midwest and are simply their own plains region. Where do these people live? In my experience, the people with strong opinions on this not only don't live in those midwestern plains region, but they don't even live in other parts of the Midwest. They tend to live in places like the Northeast.

I imagine a lot of it is having a hard time imagining the cities of the Great Lakes (plus Columbus, Cincinatti, and Indianapolis) being in the same region as "flyover country".  I have to admit, it took driving to Peoria for me to see how the Great Lakes and Great Plains are connected, since my conception of "the Midwest" was filled with lake shores and rust belt cities, not farms and small towns.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I certainly still feel in the Midwest when I'm in the U.P. and I've been all over the U.P. it's really not that much different than the northern lower peninsula. I don't know what other part of the country it would feel like. Northern Minnesota, Wisconsin and the U.P. have a lot in common.

The western UP and northeastern Minnesota were heavily shaped by mining (though different materials) which resulted in a lot more diverse immigration patterns than other parts of those states, especially Finnish. Finnish influence is very prominent in northeastern Minnesota and in the Upper Peninsoukla.