How do you define the Midwest?

[US 89]

I think another category needs to be added for Oklahoma. Oklahoma City and Tulsa are way more midwestern than those Ohio River counties in Kentucky. Other than maybe a little more influence from oil in Tulsa, it feels almost identical to Lincoln or Omaha.

Those southern Missouri counties I would move to "Midwest-influenced South". They do not at all feel like northern Missouri.

Also, as far as I am concerned, the prevalence of a grid of section-line farm roads is a major contributor to whether a place "feels" midwestern. Oklahoma and the northern Plains have that in spades just like Iowa/Illinois/Indiana/etc do. Places further west do too but their grids are a lot less consistent due to either terrain or a climate that's too dry to be conducive to much farming activity.

[ozarkman417]

But likewise many "southern" and "Ozark" places follow the Cardinals similarly.

I am originally from west central Arkansas, and now I live in northeastern Oklahoma. Both regions are solidly in Cardinals country. I used to work in a gas station in Broken Arrow, and I saw customers wearing Cardinals apparel all the time. The most common sports team apparel worn by customers was the Oklahoma Sooners, but the Cardinals were probably in second place. My grandfather, a native of Big Fork, Arkansas, was a gigantic Cardinals fan, which rubbed off on my sister and me.

I recently took a tour of Busch Stadium, and our tour guide said that until 1955, the St. Louis Cardinals were the furthest south and west MLB team. He claimed that because of this, the US south and west of St Louis became Cardinals country. Despite the league expanding westward since that time, being a fan of the Cardinals has remained a generational tradition for many in those areas.

[Rothman]

But likewise many "southern" and "Ozark" places follow the Cardinals similarly.

I am originally from west central Arkansas, and now I live in northeastern Oklahoma. Both regions are solidly in Cardinals country. I used to work in a gas station in Broken Arrow, and I saw customers wearing Cardinals apparel all the time. The most common sports team apparel worn by customers was the Oklahoma Sooners, but the Cardinals were probably in second place. My grandfather, a native of Big Fork, Arkansas, was a gigantic Cardinals fan, which rubbed off on my sister and me.

I recently took a tour of Busch Stadium, and our tour guide said that until 1955, the St. Louis Cardinals were the furthest south and west MLB team. He claimed that because of this, the US south and west of St Louis became Cardinals country. Despite the league expanding westward since that time, being a fan of the Cardinals has remained a generational tradition for many in those areas.

I thought that was due to KMOX

[Flint1979]

The lower Peninsula is part of the Midwest and the Upper Peninsula goes farther west than the lower Peninsula does and borders Wisconsin what part of the country do you think Wisconsin's in?

As I said in my previous post, I don't personally consider the northern part of Wisconsin (if I had to pick a line, I'd say that northern is anything north of Merrill or Marinette) to be in the Midwest. The rest of the state is still Midwestern.

The whole state is in the Midwest. The terrain of the area doesn't make it any less of the Midwest than somewhere in Illinois or Iowa.

Agreed. Up North in Minnesota isn't all that different culturally to someone who lives in Albert Lea. Either way, you're stuck being a Vikings fan and you go to the State Fair every year and look at butter sculptures.

Up North in Michigan, Up North in Wisconsin and Up North in Minnesota are very similar. Lots of lakes and forests for all three. I haven't been Up North in Minnesota before but my grandfather was born in Thief River Falls I'd love vacation there. But you are correct on the assumption there.

[Flint1979]

Please list all of the "plenty such counties in Kansas" with a population of less than 1000.

Spoiler alert:  the number of such counties is zero.  Greeley, the least populous, has 1,223 people.

Yeah there are only about 30-40 counties with a population under 1,000. I think most of them are in Nebraska and Colorado.

[Flint1979]

But likewise many "southern" and "Ozark" places follow the Cardinals similarly.

I am originally from west central Arkansas, and now I live in northeastern Oklahoma. Both regions are solidly in Cardinals country. I used to work in a gas station in Broken Arrow, and I saw customers wearing Cardinals apparel all the time. The most common sports team apparel worn by customers was the Oklahoma Sooners, but the Cardinals were probably in second place. My grandfather, a native of Big Fork, Arkansas, was a gigantic Cardinals fan, which rubbed off on my sister and me.

I recently took a tour of Busch Stadium, and our tour guide said that until 1955, the St. Louis Cardinals were the furthest south and west MLB team. He claimed that because of this, the US south and west of St Louis became Cardinals country. Despite the league expanding westward since that time, being a fan of the Cardinals has remained a generational tradition for many in those areas.

I thought that was due to KMOX

KMOX certainly helped.

[kphoger]

My personal definition:

I mostly agree with this map. Except maybe add a few more counties in West Virginia to the Midwest-influenced column. Monongalia, Preston and Marion Counties in WV and Greene County, PA to that column, and those counties on the Ohio River (at least most of them) are Midwestern and Appalachian.

You could plop some of those cities like Parkersburg, Huntington, and Point Pleasant in northeast or northwest Ohio very easily with their industry.

I have a really hard time accepting the hard line between Kansas and Oklahoma.  Ponca City (OK) is just not really that different from Winfield (KS).

Now, while I grew up in one of the Kansas counties labeled "Midwestern and Western", and while nobody who actually lived in that county considered it to be "Western" at all, I am OK with calling it on the map.  Why?  Because I think probably some of them should have considered it slightly Western.  I mean, some of them were cowboys, after all.

I think the line in southern Illinois is drawn really well.  The difference between, say, Williamson County and Johnson County (at least the southern half of it) is quite noticeable.  Likewise, Saline and Pope.  That distinction is spot-on.

[JayhawkCO]

The 100 least populated counties in the US:

[triplemultiplex]

The 100 least populated counties in the US:

That map weirdly shows too many lakes.  It's distracting for a national county map.
Anyway, no surprise most of them fall west of the 100th Meridian and east of the Rocky Mountains.  No water = no people.

[webny99]

I'm most intrigued by the Mississippi county. Presumably what's left from a bygone era.

[freebrickproductions]

For me, I tend to personally define the Midwest as these states:
Ohio
Indiana
Illinois
Michigan
Wisconsin
(Maybe) Kentucky, though I think I tend to think of that one more as part of the "southeast". It certainly seems to be split between the Southeast and Midwest.

Arkansas/Oklahoma and the states north of them are the Plains States.

[Takumi]

I'm most intrigued by the Mississippi county. Presumably what's left from a bygone era.

The one in Georgia sticks out more to me.

[US 89]

I'm most intrigued by the Mississippi county. Presumably what's left from a bygone era.

The one in Georgia sticks out more to me.

That's Taliaferro County (pronounced "Tolliver", like Oliver with a T in front of it - yes, really), which has one of the highest traffic ticket revenues per capita of any county in the US.

[webny99]

I'm most intrigued by the Mississippi county. Presumably what's left from a bygone era.

The one in Georgia sticks out more to me.

That's Taliaferro County (pronounced "Tolliver", like Oliver with a T in front of it - yes, really), which has one of the highest traffic ticket revenues per capita of any county in the US.

It's also tiny. You could probably fit it three times inside the Mississippi county.

[US 89]

I'm most intrigued by the Mississippi county. Presumably what's left from a bygone era.

The one in Georgia sticks out more to me.

That's Taliaferro County (pronounced "Tolliver", like Oliver with a T in front of it - yes, really), which has one of the highest traffic ticket revenues per capita of any county in the US.

It's also tiny. You could probably fit it three times inside the Mississippi county.

Georgia has a lot of small counties, for a number of reasons. One is that Georgia had a tradition that counties should be small enough for anyone to ride a horse to the county seat and back home in a day. But more recently, they had the county unit system, which was basically a version of the Electoral College for statewide elections that was even more disproportionately in favor of rural areas. Under that system, the top 8 counties by population got 6 unit votes, the next 30 got 4 unit votes, and the remainder got 2, awarded on a winner-take-all by county basis. Of course, this was incredibly unfair - even back in 1900, Fulton County (where Atlanta is) was almost 15 times bigger than Taliaferro, yet it had only had 3 times as much voting power. A majority of unit votes were controlled by less than a third of the state population. But because rural counties had such a huge power in statewide elections, it benefitted them to split out into as many counties as they reasonably could.

The Supreme Court declared that unconstitutional in 1963, but the counties have stayed, and it's honestly surprising to me there aren't more Georgia counties on this list. But the state does have a pretty large rural population even by eastern standards, which must be just enough to offset the small-county effects.

[Rothman]

Wait, surprised there aren't more Georgia counties that think they're Midwest?  Sounds just like total geographic ignorance on their part.

[Flint1979]

I didn't think I lived in redneck country. This was taken in Houghton Lake, Michigan.

[JayhawkCO]

Maybe I'm just missing it. What's redneck about that? A camo hat?

[bm7]

I'm guessing it's the fact that the guy is parked sideways in the gas station.

[JayhawkCO]

I'm guessing it's the fact that the guy is parked sideways in the gas station.

Ha. Somehow I missed that. Glanced and the column just looked like a sideways pump.

[Flint1979]

Maybe I'm just missing it. What's redneck about that? A camo hat?

Look at the pump and where the car is parked.

[Flint1979]

This is the station that the picture was taken at.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3028043,-84.6445456,3a,15y,99.14h,88.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skHdE3X9XpHM__NgUWEVXmQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

[webny99]

This is the station that the picture was taken at.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3028043,-84.6445456,3a,15y,99.14h,88.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skHdE3X9XpHM__NgUWEVXmQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Actually I would say the pumps are sideways. They should be turned 90 degrees like any other gas station, to make the pumps more convenient to access and prevent the cars at the middle pumps from getting blocked in.

[JayhawkCO]

This is the station that the picture was taken at.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3028043,-84.6445456,3a,15y,99.14h,88.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skHdE3X9XpHM__NgUWEVXmQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Actually I would say the pumps are sideways. They should be turned 90 degrees like any other gas station, to make the pumps more convenient to access and prevent the cars at the middle pumps from getting blocked in.

I think you're seeing it incorrectly just like I did.

[webny99]

This is the station that the picture was taken at.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3028043,-84.6445456,3a,15y,99.14h,88.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skHdE3X9XpHM__NgUWEVXmQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Actually I would say the pumps are sideways. They should be turned 90 degrees like any other gas station, to make the pumps more convenient to access and prevent the cars at the middle pumps from getting blocked in.

I think you're seeing it incorrectly just like I did.

No, I figured out what's going on in Flint's image, but when looking at the street view link, the pumps are sideways to how they would be at any other gas station. Look at how inconvenient it would be to try and use the pump between the red Ram and black Audi. Redneck or not, I can't fault the driver here.