I was noticing on the panynj site that work already has started on the new Goethals Bridge replacement is currently underway and subject for a 2018 completion. For those of you who saw my earlier posts, you will know that I was skeptical and considered it a project that will never get done until I see it for certain. Now its official on the panynj website with photos of the piles and clearing just to the south of the existing crossing.
I know longer live in New Jersey, and have not been a resident there for over 24 years, however if I was still there I would be checking out the work being done as I did when the Watchung Reservation section of I-78 took place from 1982 to 1986. I used to live in Union County, which is where the work is being done here, and where it was done for I-78 as well. Even when I moved to Fords in Middlesex County, I still was close enough to all the action and even drove over 50 miles one way to see the final I-287 work progress north of Montville.
In addition to wanting to hear the gossip on our end here, I thought this would be a site to chat about the Bridge just as we have threads for the GSP, NJT, and NYT (The Thruway) to that for those roads, why not have one for this bridge.
Anyway, my reaction to this is not only cool, but amazed that a two roadway structure is being implemented with two dual bridges instead of one wide one. Also, its about time that bikes and pedestrians are considered as a wide walkway will be built on one of the two spans. I just hope that they leave room for a future transit line that could be built later on, which I think there is, as I believe I read somewhere that engineers are being proactive on this one.
Here's the link for more information on the project: http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-replacement.html
When I'm traveling into Brooklyn (or Staten Island for that matter), I usually take one of two routes: one is taking I-287 up to the Turnpike and riding that to Exit 13 and hopping on the Goethals Bridge from there. The only bad part about this route is, well, it literally stinks. The second option, is to stay on I-287 and take NJ 440 into NY 440 via the Outerbridge Crossing and continue on from there. However, even though I'd rather avoid I-278's fuckyness for as much as possible, I find it much more convenient to utilize the Goethals and not have to endure the merge of the West Shore and the Staten Island Expressway.
Both of the bridges I believe are very outdated, and the replacement for the Goethals will be a welcomed project for the NJ-NY commuters. The OBX I believe is due for a replacement as well, but I guess they figure the Goethals is used more (being a connector to the Turnpike and such) and went with that first. Either way, I can't wait to see what the new bridge looks like in a few years. Being as I make a decent amount of trips to Brooklyn to meet up with family members I'll see if I can grab pictures of the construction.
If you want to see some interesting bridge construction, check out the Bayonne Bridge with the raising of the roadway within the existing truss arch. I occasionally cut through Staten Island as a really expensive traffic bypass of the Turnpike/Hudson Extension, when traveling to and from Jersey City. I get my bridge fix with the Bayonne construction, as well as the Outerbridge. Even for occasional travel to NYC via the Verrazano, I usually go with the Outerbridge. Goethal's reconstruction may change that. However, they really need a complete overhaul of the Staten Island Expressway as well.
The current rebuilding of the SIE should be done in the not-too-distant future. That will be about the right time to start over.
I generally get to Staten Island from here via the NJ Turnpike and Goethals, but if construction slows up traffic, this may make the Verrazano worth another look.
(I know, stop laughing. I realize you can't slow stopped traffic further.)
BTW, how did George Washington Goethals's name come to be pronounced differently for the bridge bearing his name?
To respond to Zeffy, I believe that both bridges onto Staten Island across the Arthur Kill were not intended for modern interstate freeway traffic. The Goethals Bridge might of been undivided giving two or three feet more of travel lanes without the jersey wall. Built long before the interstates it was able to handle the traffic at that particular time.
Both bridges opened on the same day, same year..June 29, 1928. Over 85 years old, it's time for a replacement. Wonder which has more traffic, the Outerbridge or Goethals? Well regardless, I am happy to see that the Goethals is being replaced with a much more updated, wider, safer bridge span. Cable-stayed, nonetheless. With Bike/Ped access?! If you travel the Parkway northbound, and you want to get into Staten Island or Brooklyn, it would probably be more convenient to take the Outerbridge. When I heard this project, along with the Bayonne Bridge being raised, and even the Outerbridge getting a deck makeover (which I can't tell if it is finished), and also the Verrazano Bridge deck replacement (http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/06/verrazano_bridge_upper_deck_re.html) I am noticing that government agencies are finally coming to their senses.
I think they are both equally used, just the outerbridge is in better shape, or at least could be rehabilitated without much effort. Since more truck traffic uses the goethals bridge (i am thinking on the lines of, the outerbridge is connected via 440 to 287, but mostly is connected to the parkway/9) it is harder to shut down for any sort of remedial action. Plus the thinking may be that the new Goethals bridge will reduce traffic on the outerbridge, extending the life of that span.
Also, they both see approx 78-80k cars a day. According to wikipedia's cited NY traffic study.
https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/engineering/technical-services/hds-respository/Traffic%20Data%20Report%202010%20Appendix%20C%20-%20AADT%20Values%20for%20Select%20Toll%20Facilities.pdf
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 20, 2014, 03:30:26 PM
The current rebuilding of the SIE should be done in the not-too-distant future. That will be about the right time to start over.
For the record, you know that infamous, never-used 3-tiered T-interchange on the SIE, the one where the Richmond Parkway (now Korean War Vets Pkwy) would have ended? That was finally demolished about 2 years ago. Perhaps that was to, ahem, pave the way for reconstruction?
Actually, some of it was still there a couple of months ago. The dismantling occurred amid the ongoing, neverending reconstruction of the SIE.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 21, 2014, 11:18:40 PM
Actually, some of it was still there a couple of months ago. The dismantling occurred amid the ongoing, neverending reconstruction of the SIE.
Hey, it takes a lot to fix such a clusterfuck that should've been designed properly in the first place.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on October 21, 2014, 09:01:12 PM
Also, they both see approx 78-80k cars a day. According to wikipedia's cited NY traffic study.
I could see it. A lot of commuters use both of the bridges if they are trying to get to/from anywhere that isn't Manhattan. Or maybe some of them use them to avoid the traffic on the GWB.
Goethals and Outerbridge may have similar volumes, but I bet you anything Goethals has MUCH heavier truck traffic, what with the ports right there.
So if the bridge is being widened to 6-lanes how are they going to phase that into the rest of the highway? Are they going to widen I-278 from the NJ Tpke to the toll plaza?
The NJ side already widens to 3 lanes with 2 going to the NJTP.
The eastbound Frontage Road on Staten Island will have to be relocated as well as both a new toll plaza and railroad bridge.
It will be interesting to see the Turnpike connection. Hopefully they will smooth out the 180 degree curve from the Goethals Bridge to the NJ Turnpike in the process.
I can't wait to see it on my next trip up north. I may skip the Outerbridge Crossing just to check out the progress of the bridge construction.
UPDATE; December 23, 2014: I saw no evidence of it whatsoever. It was too dark to see as I was going up, and I just didn't see any evidence of it when I was going down in the daylight.
:no:
Quote from: roadman65 on October 22, 2014, 08:50:57 PM
The eastbound Frontage Road on Staten Island will have to be relocated as well as both a new toll plaza and railroad bridge.
It will be interesting to see the Turnpike connection. Hopefully they will smooth out the 180 degree curve from the Goethals Bridge to the NJ Turnpike in the process.
There are some minor Turnpike ramp modifications, including (sadly) further elimination of the NJ 81 ramp stubs. A few of the curves are getting smoothed out. Thing is, I'm not sure whether those are part of this contract, or a separate one wholly overseen by the NJTA. I'd hope for the latter, because the PANYNJ being involved would just complicate it.
Speaking of Goethals Bridge access ramps:
http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2014/10/hearing_to_examine_options_to_get_turnpike_and_bri.html#incart_m-rpt-1 (http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2014/10/hearing_to_examine_options_to_get_turnpike_and_bri.html#incart_m-rpt-1)
This is a no brainer and should have been done long ago.
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on October 24, 2014, 09:45:59 AM
Speaking of Goethals Bridge access ramps:
http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2014/10/hearing_to_examine_options_to_get_turnpike_and_bri.html#incart_m-rpt-1 (http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2014/10/hearing_to_examine_options_to_get_turnpike_and_bri.html#incart_m-rpt-1)
This is a no brainer and should have been done long ago.
Agreed, but it when has NJDOT actually made smart decisions when it comes to building ramps? At least they are being proactive now it seems with construction projects.
I think they might of been waiting for the never built Union County Expressway to construct those movements.
However, after being raised by my dad who was a traditional person, he did not mind driving surface streets to make connections between two major routes. I guess cause his generation was not used to freeways being around and the fact that arterials were much easier to travel due to less amount of cars and traffic lights. That might of been the logic behind that planning in the late 60's. Not many would object to cutting through the streets of Bayway to get from the Bridge to US 1 & 9. Plus considering that going on US 1 & 9 further south and then heading back somewhat as I-278 does not go in straight line from the Goethals Bridge to the interchange with US 1 & 9. If you look at the map it is a hook being made, while NJ 439 is a straight turn.
Plus WB to NB can also use South Broad Street as well, even with the new planned ramps. SB to EB cannot use Broad Street because of the typical NJ left turn prohibition at US 1 & 9 and South Broad, so there making the hook would be feasible.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 24, 2014, 11:08:05 AM
I think they might of been waiting for the never built Union County Expressway to construct those movements.
QuoteThat might of been the logic behind that planning in the late 60's.
The
might of the locals' opposition
might have been to blame for those ramps not already being there. Catch my drift?
Do the renderings for the new Goethals Bridge look an awful lot like the new Tappan Zee Bridge to anyone else? So much for NYS's insistence that the design of the new TZB be something iconic (or whatever the related term was that they used when they commissioned the design).
Personally, I don't think either one is particularly attractive. Or forward-thinking in terms of incorporating the potential for rail travel over the new spans.
Regarding the access ramps, see also:
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-missing-links.html (http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-missing-links.html)
As for rail transport, note that there already is access for freight rail. The Arthur Kill Lift Bridge was rehabilitated several years ago to provide rail service to the Howland Hook Marine Terminal on the island. (This is that railroad bridge which sits just to the north of the Goethals Bridge. It was recently painted blue. Like many movable rail spans, its "default" is in the up position, and is only lowered when a train is coming. With the rehab, a rail connection was made to the "Chemical Coast" line, those tracks that parallel the NJTP on the NB side. Originally, the tracks continued to a rail bridge over the Turnpike; the overpass is still there -- it's easy-to-miss among the exit ramps and such -- but I think the trackage is out of service at present.)
For some reason "iconic" or "signature span" appear to mean "generic cable-stayed bridge" these days.
I like the new ramps. Should make it easier for roadgeeks who need to clinch I-278.
Quote from: lepidopteran on October 24, 2014, 02:10:19 PM
As for rail transport, note that there already is access for freight rail. The Arthur Kill Lift Bridge was rehabilitated several years ago to provide rail service to the Howland Hook Marine Terminal on the island. (This is that railroad bridge which sits just to the north of the Goethals Bridge. It was recently painted blue. Like many movable rail spans, its "default" is in the up position, and is only lowered when a train is coming. With the rehab, a rail connection was made to the "Chemical Coast" line, those tracks that parallel the NJTP on the NB side. Originally, the tracks continued to a rail bridge over the Turnpike; the overpass is still there -- it's easy-to-miss among the exit ramps and such -- but I think the trackage is out of service at present.)
I've wondered about that railroad bridge over the Turnpike - You can see bushes/small trees growing on it from below. I was looking at the aerial recently when looking at the ramps for the Goethals and it looks like that track is definitely out of service if not completely missing tracks entirely across the Turnpike bridge.
Any progress?
Quote from: J Route Z on January 10, 2015, 12:38:42 PM
Any progress?
Construction doesn't happen much during winter. Check back next year when more bridge is happening.
http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/10/travel_alert_goethals_bridge_t.html (http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/10/travel_alert_goethals_bridge_t.html)
It looks like the Goethals Bridge will be closed from 10 p.m. Friday, Oct. 7th, through 8 a.m. on Saturday, Oct. 8th. The purpose of the closure is to replace the "Travis Spur" rail bridge. This is that railroad bridge you pass under upon entering Staten Island, just before the toll booth.
One reason for replacing the railroad bridge is that the new Goethals Bridge will have 3 lanes in each direction (and shoulders to boot!) as opposed to the 2 lanes there now, so the bridge needs to be modified to match the width.
I was surprised that the railroad track in question was still in enough use to warrant a bridge replacement. The relatively new freight spur only goes as far south as the Fresh Kills river; it was never used for passengers (barring possible excursion runs) or rapid transit.
It looks like sections of the new rail bridge will literally be moved into place. The link has some good pictures of the construction.
Quote from: lepidopteran on October 06, 2016, 08:38:15 PM
I was surprised that the railroad track in question was still in enough use to warrant a bridge replacement. The relatively new freight spur only goes as far south as the Fresh Kills river; it was never used for passengers (barring possible excursion runs) or rapid transit.
There is a solid waste transfer station at the end of that rail spur, a significant amount of garbage leaves NYC via it. A paper mill along the spur also still uses it for shipping.
Meanwhile Arthur Kill Power station in the past used this spur for coal shipments but it runs on natural gas now.
Quote from: Duke87 on October 06, 2016, 10:00:53 PM
There is a solid waste transfer station at the end of that rail spur, a significant amount of garbage leaves NYC via it. A paper mill along the spur also still uses it for shipping.
I believe at least some of that municipal refuse shipped out from NYC rolls through the District of Columbia on CSX rails. Possible destinations include the large landfill and incinerator at Sealston, Virginia; another landfill in Charles City County, Virginia; and yet another big landfill in Waverly, Virginia.
I'd also wonder if the bridge would have to be raised a little.
Quote from: Rothman on October 07, 2016, 11:41:33 AM
I'd also wonder if the bridge would have to be raised a little.
They're saying a 138 ft clearance, that should be plenty high enough. Both the Goethals and Outerbridge were built with very high clearances, unlike the Bayonne Bridge. This is why they're raising the roadbed of the latter.
Quote from: storm2k on October 07, 2016, 04:09:01 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 07, 2016, 11:41:33 AM
I'd also wonder if the bridge would have to be raised a little.
They're saying a 138 ft clearance, that should be plenty high enough. Both the Goethals and Outerbridge were built with very high clearances, unlike the Bayonne Bridge. This is why they're raising the roadbed of the latter.
I was referring to the rail bridge down the way that was mentioned.
Quote from: Duke87 on October 06, 2016, 10:00:53 PM
Quote from: lepidopteran on October 06, 2016, 08:38:15 PM
I was surprised that the railroad track in question was still in enough use to warrant a bridge replacement. The relatively new freight spur only goes as far south as the Fresh Kills river; it was never used for passengers (barring possible excursion runs) or rapid transit.
There is a solid waste transfer station at the end of that rail spur, a significant amount of garbage leaves NYC via it. A paper mill along the spur also still uses it for shipping.
Meanwhile Arthur Kill Power station in the past used this spur for coal shipments but it runs on natural gas now.
That, and believe it or not, material for the replacement for the bridge used it.
That's known as the Travis Branch, BTW.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on October 31, 2016, 02:10:45 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on October 06, 2016, 10:00:53 PM
Quote from: lepidopteran on October 06, 2016, 08:38:15 PM
I was surprised that the railroad track in question was still in enough use to warrant a bridge replacement. The relatively new freight spur only goes as far south as the Fresh Kills river; it was never used for passengers (barring possible excursion runs) or rapid transit.
There is a solid waste transfer station at the end of that rail spur, a significant amount of garbage leaves NYC via it. A paper mill along the spur also still uses it for shipping.
Meanwhile Arthur Kill Power station in the past used this spur for coal shipments but it runs on natural gas now.
That, and believe it or not, material for the replacement for the bridge used it.
That's known as the Travis Branch, BTW.
That is kind of neat, that the rail line there is being used for replacement bridge components. May explain why they have to fix the bridge, despite the road under it being moved in the future. They need it to handle extreme weights above and beyond the normal use it was getting, on a more frequent basis.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on October 31, 2016, 01:10:53 PM
That is kind of neat, that the rail line there is being used for replacement bridge components. May explain why they have to fix the bridge, despite the road under it being moved in the future. They need it to handle extreme weights above and beyond the normal use it was getting, on a more frequent basis.
Ever see the "Images of Rail: Staten Island Rapid Transit" book, by Marc Pitanza? You'll find it there.
It looks like the new span of the Goethals Bridge is ready!
The original cantilever span that opened in 1928 will be closing for good tonight (Jun 9) at 10 p.m. The new span will open to EB traffic sometime tomorrow, and to WB traffic on Sunday.
http://www.silive.com/news/2017/06/one_of_two_new_goethals_spans.html (http://www.silive.com/news/2017/06/one_of_two_new_goethals_spans.html)
For some perspective on how vehicles have changed in this bridge's lifetime, the bridge first opened a year after the Model-T Ford went out of production.
Good riddance to the old bridge!
Its closed WB all of today. The transfer is happening in stages. First today the EB traffic and tomorrow the WB side.
Plus only one of the new bridges is actually built. The future WB span is due for completion in 2018.
Right now as we speak you must use the Outerbridge Crossing or the Bayonne Bridge to get between the two states in this area.
NJ.com's article proclaimed "Goodbye Narrow Lanes!" - well not quite yet, since they are putting both directions on the first of the two bridges for what will still be 4 lanes for some time until 2018 when the second span opens. But at any rate, still a big improvement and I'll be trying it out sometime soon. I drive under the NJ approaches at least all the time on the Turnpike, so I've gotten to watch its progress. Even neater is the Bayonne Bridge reconstruction - especially before the new higher deck opened and you could still drive on half of the original roadway and watch them work above you.
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on June 11, 2017, 11:55:13 AM
NJ.com's article proclaimed "Goodbye Narrow Lanes!" - well not quite yet, since they are putting both directions on the first of the two bridges for what will still be 4 lanes for some time until 2018 when the second span opens. But at any rate, still a big improvement and I'll be trying it out sometime soon. I drive under the NJ approaches at least all the time on the Turnpike, so I've gotten to watch its progress. Even neater is the Bayonne Bridge reconstruction - especially before the new higher deck opened and you could still drive on half of the original roadway and watch them work above you.
Looks like the narrow lanes will be a thing of the past, there is enough space on the first new bridge for four 12-foot-wide lanes and a temporary concrete median barrier.
Pre-existing bridge -- Width of roadway: 42 feet
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-facts-info.html
New bridges, each roadway is 53 feet wide --
The replacement bridge is being constructed directly south of the old bridge and, when complete, will provide:
-- Three 12-foot-wide lanes in each direction replacing the current two narrow 10-foot-wide lanes
-- A 12-foot-wide outer shoulder and a 5-foot-wide inner shoulder in each direction
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-replacement-about.html
Quote from: Beltway on June 11, 2017, 02:55:12 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on June 11, 2017, 11:55:13 AM
NJ.com's article proclaimed "Goodbye Narrow Lanes!" - well not quite yet, since they are putting both directions on the first of the two bridges for what will still be 4 lanes for some time until 2018 when the second span opens. But at any rate, still a big improvement and I'll be trying it out sometime soon. I drive under the NJ approaches at least all the time on the Turnpike, so I've gotten to watch its progress. Even neater is the Bayonne Bridge reconstruction - especially before the new higher deck opened and you could still drive on half of the original roadway and watch them work above you.
Looks like the narrow lanes will be a thing of the past, there is enough space on the first new bridge for four 12-foot-wide lanes and a temporary concrete median barrier.
Pre-existing bridge -- Width of roadway: 42 feet
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-facts-info.html
New bridges, each roadway is 53 feet wide --
The replacement bridge is being constructed directly south of the old bridge and, when complete, will provide:
-- Three 12-foot-wide lanes in each direction replacing the current two narrow 10-foot-wide lanes
-- A 12-foot-wide outer shoulder and a 5-foot-wide inner shoulder in each direction
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-replacement-about.html
I think they should have planned for at least 4 travel lanes in each direction...they will fill up fast.
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on June 11, 2017, 03:34:26 PM
Quote from: Beltway on June 11, 2017, 02:55:12 PM
Pre-existing bridge -- Width of roadway: 42 feet
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-facts-info.html
New bridges, each roadway is 53 feet wide --
The replacement bridge is being constructed directly south of the old bridge and, when complete, will provide:
-- Three 12-foot-wide lanes in each direction replacing the current two narrow 10-foot-wide lanes
-- A 12-foot-wide outer shoulder and a 5-foot-wide inner shoulder in each direction
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-replacement-about.html
I think they should have planned for at least 4 travel lanes in each direction...they will fill up fast.
Next replace the Outerbridge Crossing, an almost identical design to the old Goethals Bridge, with a design similar to the new Goethals Bridge. That would provide a joint major increase in capacity between New Jersey and Staten Island.
Quote from: Beltway on June 11, 2017, 09:22:02 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on June 11, 2017, 03:34:26 PM
Quote from: Beltway on June 11, 2017, 02:55:12 PM
Pre-existing bridge -- Width of roadway: 42 feet
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-facts-info.html
New bridges, each roadway is 53 feet wide --
The replacement bridge is being constructed directly south of the old bridge and, when complete, will provide:
-- Three 12-foot-wide lanes in each direction replacing the current two narrow 10-foot-wide lanes
-- A 12-foot-wide outer shoulder and a 5-foot-wide inner shoulder in each direction
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-replacement-about.html
I think they should have planned for at least 4 travel lanes in each direction...they will fill up fast.
Next replace the Outerbridge Crossing, an almost identical design to the old Goethals Bridge, with a design similar to the new Goethals Bridge. That would provide a joint major increase in capacity between New Jersey and Staten Island.
The Port Authority also doesn't want to dump traffic on the island only for the through traffic to consolidate into 6 lanes to cross into Brooklyn. Ideally, you want to balance it so there aren't backups getting off of the island.
The Outerbridge Crossing should be at least twinned. I mean, I'm not ready to demolish the OBX. Whatever new bridge needs bike lanes.
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on June 11, 2017, 03:34:26 PM
Quote from: Beltway on June 11, 2017, 02:55:12 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on June 11, 2017, 11:55:13 AM
NJ.com's article proclaimed "Goodbye Narrow Lanes!" - well not quite yet, since they are putting both directions on the first of the two bridges for what will still be 4 lanes for some time until 2018 when the second span opens. But at any rate, still a big improvement and I'll be trying it out sometime soon. I drive under the NJ approaches at least all the time on the Turnpike, so I've gotten to watch its progress. Even neater is the Bayonne Bridge reconstruction - especially before the new higher deck opened and you could still drive on half of the original roadway and watch them work above you.
Looks like the narrow lanes will be a thing of the past, there is enough space on the first new bridge for four 12-foot-wide lanes and a temporary concrete median barrier.
Pre-existing bridge -- Width of roadway: 42 feet
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-facts-info.html
New bridges, each roadway is 53 feet wide --
The replacement bridge is being constructed directly south of the old bridge and, when complete, will provide:
-- Three 12-foot-wide lanes in each direction replacing the current two narrow 10-foot-wide lanes
-- A 12-foot-wide outer shoulder and a 5-foot-wide inner shoulder in each direction
http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/goethals-bridge-replacement-about.html
I think they should have planned for at least 4 travel lanes in each direction...they will fill up fast.
There's probably a huge land acquisition issue as well. Sure, it's only 12 feet per side additional they needed, but this isn't wide open Iowa. There are numerous warehouses and other buildings on the ground next to the bridge, so trying to acquire the additional land needed would potentially cost the PANYNJ hundreds of thousands or millions...per parcel of land!
And in this area of the country, building a new highway/bridge and expecting free-flow traffic isn't going to be possible. They just build to keep existing infrastructure from becoming a massive, fatal failure.
Since the bridge does have a full shoulder, they could probably convert it to a travel lane in the future if absolutely needed. But they would also have to weigh consideration of what's more important - a travel lane, or an lane for emergency equipment.
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on June 11, 2017, 10:22:13 PM
The Outerbridge Crossing should be at least twinned. I mean, I'm not ready to demolish the OBX. Whatever new bridge needs bike lanes.
The new Goethals Bridge will have a ped/bicycle lane when fully completed.
There would probably be much higher bicycle lane traffic between Tottenville and Perth Amboy. Especially considering you can use it as a connection from the SIR to NJ Transit through a bike ride, meaning you could take a train to the Jersey Shore.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 12, 2017, 06:08:48 AM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on June 11, 2017, 03:34:26 PM
I think they should have planned for at least 4 travel lanes in each direction...they will fill up fast.
There's probably a huge land acquisition issue as well. Sure, it's only 12 feet per side additional they needed, but this isn't wide open Iowa. There are numerous warehouses and other buildings on the ground next to the bridge, so trying to acquire the additional land needed would potentially cost the PANYNJ hundreds of thousands or millions...per parcel of land!
And in this area of the country, building a new highway/bridge and expecting free-flow traffic isn't going to be possible. They just build to keep existing infrastructure from becoming a massive, fatal failure.
Since the bridge does have a full shoulder, they could probably convert it to a travel lane in the future if absolutely needed. But they would also have to weigh consideration of what's more important - a travel lane, or an lane for emergency equipment.
Understood, but we have to live with these bridges for the next 100 years. Best to spend the extra bucks now and do some better future proofing this time around. The extra capacity is more than worth the money.
Some videos of crossing the new Goethal bridge is on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmFTLcLZuLA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_n2H-we-is
I See Forest Avenue is now being mentioned on the bridge itself. The PANYNJ is helping out by signing exits not in their jurisdiction.
Anyway, forgot about the single lane I-278 through the tangle with NJ 439 and the NJ Turnpike.
Good post!
Looks like more NJTPA VMS gantry setups landed up on the new bridge. The structure's design is nearly identical.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on June 13, 2017, 05:38:29 PM
Looks like more NJTPA VMS gantry setups landed up on the new bridge. The structure's design is nearly identical.
DRBA is using them (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6953164,-75.5460684,3a,75y,92.42h,84.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1semm956nkDf-xr5-UhlbVDA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) also. I think that we'll be seeing this design in a lot more places in the future.
Construction on the second span is progressing well. On the old structure, several of the approach spans (and a few piers) have been demolished, and the roadway on the main span has been reduced to the beams.
But I've noticed something else, that may or may not be related to the bridge project.
It used to be that when you entered NJ, you were greeted by at least 3 lattice-type high-voltage power line structures. Sort of an intro to the industrial setting associated with NJTP Exit 13, if you will. Well, as of this past week, the last of the lattice-style towers along the bridge approach has been removed. In their place are three new monopole structures, much better looking aesthetically, IMHO.
I know there's some traffic displacement due to Bayonne Bridge closures, but this project really highlights for me the NJ Turnpike's need to get into the 21st century with its toll-taking process. The New Jersey side is a mess of a bottleneck, especially with a huge line at cash lanes coming off the Turnpike.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 05, 2017, 03:28:28 PM
I know there's some traffic displacement due to Bayonne Bridge closures, but this project really highlights for me the NJ Turnpike's need to get into the 21st century with its toll-taking process. The New Jersey side is a mess of a bottleneck, especially with a huge line at cash lanes coming off the Turnpike.
Exactly. A couple weeks ago I was driving from Philly to Long Island and took the Goethals. The exit was so bottlenecked that it took THREE HOURS just to exit the turnpike, go through the toll, and get onto the bridge. NJTA really has to fix something here.
Quote from: zachb on November 06, 2017, 07:24:54 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 05, 2017, 03:28:28 PM
I know there's some traffic displacement due to Bayonne Bridge closures, but this project really highlights for me the NJ Turnpike's need to get into the 21st century with its toll-taking process. The New Jersey side is a mess of a bottleneck, especially with a huge line at cash lanes coming off the Turnpike.
Exactly. A couple weeks ago I was driving from Philly to Long Island and took the Goethals. The exit was so bottlenecked that it took THREE HOURS just to exit the turnpike, go through the toll, and get onto the bridge. NJTA really has to fix something here.
(Edited to add): Exactly what day was this?
If the bottleneck was at the bridge, then the NJ Turnpike had nothing to do with it.
The NJ Turnpike was one of the first to use EZ Pass. If they went cashless, you'll still need an EZ Pass (or pay via an invoice later, which will incur an additional fee). So I'm not sure why you're complaining they haven't gotten into the 21st century. Cashless tolls on the turnpike aren't going to eliminate traffic congestion downstream at the bridge.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 06, 2017, 08:22:25 AM
Quote from: zachb on November 06, 2017, 07:24:54 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 05, 2017, 03:28:28 PM
I know there's some traffic displacement due to Bayonne Bridge closures, but this project really highlights for me the NJ Turnpike's need to get into the 21st century with its toll-taking process. The New Jersey side is a mess of a bottleneck, especially with a huge line at cash lanes coming off the Turnpike.
Exactly. A couple weeks ago I was driving from Philly to Long Island and took the Goethals. The exit was so bottlenecked that it took THREE HOURS just to exit the turnpike, go through the toll, and get onto the bridge. NJTA really has to fix something here.
(Edited to add): Exactly what day was this?
If the bottleneck was at the bridge, then the NJ Turnpike had nothing to do with it.
The NJ Turnpike was one of the first to use EZ Pass. If they went cashless, you'll still need an EZ Pass (or pay via an invoice later, which will incur an additional fee). So I'm not sure why you're complaining they haven't gotten into the 21st century. Cashless tolls on the turnpike aren't going to eliminate traffic congestion downstream at the bridge.
I didn't get into it any further because I was sure it would get into detailed envisioning of interchange redesign, which was more than I wanted to bite off.
But taking out the need for the 18th-century concept of "toll booth" drastically frees up the possibility more more efficient movements. The time has come to think of something better than shunting all the vehicles into several football fields' worth of pavement then into a ridiculous bottleneck of weaving there.
Quote from: lepidopteran on November 04, 2017, 11:20:57 PM
It used to be that when you entered NJ, you were greeted by at least 3 lattice-type high-voltage power line structures. Sort of an intro to the industrial setting associated with NJTP Exit 13, if you will. Well, as of this past week, the last of the lattice-style towers along the bridge approach has been removed. In their place are three new monopole structures, much better looking aesthetically, IMHO.
I wonder if the phase conductors were upgraded enough to require new insulator strings and structures on which to hang everything?
PSE&G locally has been upgrading to monopoles with much higher voltage wiring (345kV). The structures and wiring are easier to maintain too.
https://www.enr.com/articles/39085-nj-utility-turns-switch-on-billion-dollar-rewire
Quote from: NJRoadfan on November 08, 2017, 03:25:21 PM
PSE&G locally has been upgrading to monopoles with much higher voltage wiring (345kV). The structures and wiring are easier to maintain too.
https://www.enr.com/articles/39085-nj-utility-turns-switch-on-billion-dollar-rewire
They installed these near Exit 11 for a project upgrading the transmission lines from Seawaren to Metuchen Yard. You can also see them running down the side of Rt 1 through Edison, and crossing the Parkway near 130.
As of last night (1/15), the main span of the (old) Goethals Bridge has been removed. In a similar manner to the Kosciusko Bridge, the span has been lowered with pulleys down to a barge, where it will be taken to a recycler. There are still a few approach spans remaining on either side.
With the second new span connected but not open, for a while there were 3 Goethals spans, thus a record 6 bridges between Staten Island and NJ -- if you include the rail lift bridge.
See also
http://www.silive.com/news/2018/01/iconic_goethals_bridge_is_dism.html (http://www.silive.com/news/2018/01/iconic_goethals_bridge_is_dism.html)
Quote from: lepidopteran on January 16, 2018, 10:57:30 PM
As of last night (1/15), the main span of the (old) Goethals Bridge has been removed. In a similar manner to the Kosciusko Bridge, the span has been lowered with pulleys down to a barge, where it will be taken to a recycler. There are still a few approach spans remaining on either side.
With the second new span connected but not open, for a while there were 3 Goethals spans, thus a record 6 bridges between Staten Island and NJ -- if you include the rail lift bridge.
See also
http://www.silive.com/news/2018/01/iconic_goethals_bridge_is_dism.html (http://www.silive.com/news/2018/01/iconic_goethals_bridge_is_dism.html)
Wait, what's the sixth? I'm counting five: old Goethals, new Goethals, Outerbridge, Bayonne, and the rail bridge.
Quote from: dgolub on January 17, 2018, 09:03:33 AM
Quote from: lepidopteran on January 16, 2018, 10:57:30 PM
As of last night (1/15), the main span of the (old) Goethals Bridge has been removed. In a similar manner to the Kosciusko Bridge, the span has been lowered with pulleys down to a barge, where it will be taken to a recycler. There are still a few approach spans remaining on either side.
With the second new span connected but not open, for a while there were 3 Goethals spans, thus a record 6 bridges between Staten Island and NJ -- if you include the rail lift bridge.
See also
http://www.silive.com/news/2018/01/iconic_goethals_bridge_is_dism.html (http://www.silive.com/news/2018/01/iconic_goethals_bridge_is_dism.html)
Wait, what's the sixth? I'm counting five: old Goethals, new Goethals, Outerbridge, Bayonne, and the rail bridge.
New Goethals has twin spans and presumably counts as two.
As of approximately 4:00 this afternoon, the last section of through-truss of the old bridge span has been removed.
Several sections of approach span still remain on either side of the river, but presumably not for long.
The new WB span is coming along nicely, but I think they won't open it as hastily as they did the EB span.
Quote from: lepidopteran on May 10, 2018, 05:59:59 PM
The new WB span is coming along nicely, but I think they won't open it as hastily as they did the EB span.
http://www.ny1.com/nyc/staten-island/news/2018/05/18/second-span-of-new-goethals-bridge-opens-monday
The new WB span opened Sunday night (5/20). Video below of the WB drive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4HnWavXiiM