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Non-Road Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: OCGuy81 on May 05, 2021, 07:10:28 PM

Title: Liquor
Post by: OCGuy81 on May 05, 2021, 07:10:28 PM
Much like the thread about wine, do you have a preference for certain types of liquor whenever you choose to partake?

My brother in law recently poured me some 18-year Glenlivet.  It was pretty good, but honestly, I couldn't have told the difference between that and "lesser" types of whiskeys.  I guess it's like wine, where you have to kind of know how to properly taste, savor, note certain flavors, etc.  Granted I'm sure I could tell the difference between the fancy stuff and some cheap ass Clan MacGregor, but as far as ages, single malt, etc goes I guess I'm flying blind.

Certainly wine is my default when I do drink, but I do keep some of the following around the house.

- Tito's.  I think this is incredibly smooth vodka, and I could almost sip it just straight.

- Hornitos.  Not a bad buy for tequila, and certainly not as rough as some Cuervo.

- Jameson.  Kind of the one whiskey I normally gravitate towards.

I think the wife has some flavored vodkas she'll bust out on occasion, but those are my proverbial three amigos.  What're yours?
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: csw on May 05, 2021, 07:16:07 PM
Liquor? I hardly know her.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: OCGuy81 on May 05, 2021, 07:17:31 PM
Liquor? I hardly know her.
:clap:
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 05, 2021, 07:47:49 PM
Never had liquor (duh). Isn't liquor generally stronger than wine?
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: Takumi on May 05, 2021, 07:51:21 PM
Never had liquor (duh). Isn't liquor generally stronger than wine?
Yes. Typically liquor is over 20% alcohol volume.

I can’t drink liquor anymore. The buzz lasts too short for me, so if I want to have a sustained one I have to overindulge and I’d rather not do that.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: OCGuy81 on May 05, 2021, 08:06:59 PM
Never had liquor (duh). Isn't liquor generally stronger than wine?

Whaaaa? When I was your age I used a combination of a fake ID or a friend’s older sibling for that.

My reminiscing aside, yes, it’s generally much stronger.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 05, 2021, 08:12:02 PM
Never had liquor (duh). Isn't liquor generally stronger than wine?

Whaaaa? When I was your age I used a combination of a fake ID or a friend’s older sibling for that.

My reminiscing aside, yes, it’s generally much stronger.
I have had a couple of sips of alcohol before. I didn't like it.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: OCGuy81 on May 05, 2021, 08:19:41 PM
Never had liquor (duh). Isn't liquor generally stronger than wine?

Whaaaa? When I was your age I used a combination of a fake ID or a friend’s older sibling for that.

My reminiscing aside, yes, it’s generally much stronger.
I have had a couple of sips of alcohol before. I didn't like it.

I was just giving you a bad time. :-)

It’s definitely not for everybody. I barely drink much of it nowadays. Hits me a bit too hard
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 05, 2021, 08:23:02 PM
As long as it isn’t cheap liquor I’m generally game for anything.  I kind of have an affinity for Gin for some reason and often get bottles as Christmas gifts.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: jeffandnicole on May 05, 2021, 08:58:06 PM
Alcohol is often an acquired taste...not many people say they loved their first sips.

For me, my go to is just a general lager. Yuengling, Corona, etc. For wine, I like sweet, fruity wines. Vodka over most other liquors.

There's also some truth in that tequila makes the clothes come off. Or my wife's jello shots.

Good times. Who wants a beer? NE2's buying.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: SSOWorld on May 05, 2021, 09:22:39 PM
Whiskey's good taken in moderation and mixed appropriately.

straight up? I'll pass.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: OCGuy81 on May 05, 2021, 09:24:32 PM
Alcohol is often an acquired taste...not many people say they loved their first sips.

For me, my go to is just a general lager. Yuengling, Corona, etc. For wine, I like sweet, fruity wines. Vodka over most other liquors.

There's also some truth in that tequila makes the clothes come off. Or my wife's jello shots.

Good times. Who wants a beer? NE2's buying.

I’m in. Thanks NE2!
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: ilpt4u on May 05, 2021, 11:24:12 PM
I like some Makers Mark bourbon - Neat, On the Rocks, or in a nice Cocktail (makes a yummy Old Fashioned)

I agree that Tito’s is good vodka

If I want to get st00p1d, a bottle of Wild Turkey American Honey is basically my Kryptonite...It is sweet and smooth, and a full “fifth”/bottle can disappear very quickly in an evening. My older brother likes to get a bottle when I visit at holidays or other functions
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: allniter89 on May 05, 2021, 11:41:53 PM
Never had liquor (duh). Isn't liquor generally stronger than wine?

Whaaaa? When I was your age I used a combination of a fake ID or a friend’s older sibling for that.

My reminiscing aside, yes, it’s generally much stronger.
Boones Farm b4 I was legal. Crown Royal now, smooth
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: jeffandnicole on May 05, 2021, 11:43:56 PM
Zima rules.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kkt on May 06, 2021, 01:26:56 AM
Liquor? I hardly know her.

 :-D :clap:
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kkt on May 06, 2021, 01:30:44 AM
Scotch, Lagavulin is very nice
Brandy

that said, I don't have it very often and only about a thimbleful at a time.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: SSOWorld on May 06, 2021, 05:30:47 AM
Liquor? I hardly know her.
You win the thread. :bigass: 🤣😂
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on May 06, 2021, 07:32:11 AM
Bruichladdich is a Scotch that I love. It's expensive, about $60/bottle, so I usually just get one a year at my birthday.

My years living near Kentucky got me drinking bourbon. Four Roses small batch is my favorite moderately priced bourbon.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 10:24:14 AM
Besides wine, I also keep gin in the house.  Each weekend, either Saturday afternoon or Sunday afternoon, I make a cocktail.  Either a Gin & Tonic (with a squeeze of lime and a few dashes of Peychaud's bitters), a Tom Collins (with a few dashes of Angostura bitters), a grapefruit gin fizz (with an egg white), or a Salty Dog.  Usually one of the first two.

I've tried several different gins:
  Gordon's London Dry
  Tanqueray Rangpur Lime
  Beefeater London Dry
  Bombay Sapphire London Dry
  Bluecoat American Dry

Of those, the ones that mix the best into my cocktails are Beefeater and Bombay Sapphire.  Those two don't impart any "off" flavors to the drink.  The Bombay Sapphire adds some interesting other flavors, so I think that's going to be my go-to gin from now on.  (Beefeater is basically all juniper, which is fine too.)  I find it interesting that Bombay Sapphire is also the brand I grew up seeing in the house for my dad's occasional martini.  It's also the brand my sister and her husband buy.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 06, 2021, 11:14:03 AM
Vodka - They're essentially all the same, so normally just what's cheap.  I use Marble quite a bit (local Colorado brand)
"Traditional" Gin - Hendrick's or Leopold's Summer Gin (local Colorado brand)
Old Tom Gin - Ransom
Tequila Blanca - ArteNOM 1579
Tequila Reposado - Casamigos
Tequila Añejo - Don Julio
Tequila Extra Añejo - Organic Diablito
Mezcal - Alipús Destilado en Barro
Rum - Foursquare 2007
Bourbon - Weller 12 Year
Rye Whiskey - A.D. Laws' (local Colorado brand)
Corn Whiskey - A.D. Laws' (local Colorado brand)
Irish Whisky - Knappogue Castle 12 Year
Scotch Whisky - Balvenie 14 Year Caribbean Cask
Japanese Whisky - Akashi White Label
Brandy - Germain-Robin
Cognac - Hennessy Paradis
Miscellaneous Spirits - Fernet Branca and Green Chartreuse

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: OCGuy81 on May 06, 2021, 11:15:34 AM
Besides wine, I also keep gin in the house.  Each weekend, either Saturday afternoon or Sunday afternoon, I make a cocktail.  Either a Gin & Tonic (with a squeeze of lime and a few dashes of Peychaud's bitters), a Tom Collins (with a few dashes of Angostura bitters), a grapefruit gin fizz (with an egg white), or a Salty Dog.  Usually one of the first two.

I've tried several different gins:
  Gordon's London Dry
  Tanqueray Rangpur Lime
  Beefeater London Dry
  Bombay Sapphire London Dry
  Bluecoat American Dry

Of those, the ones that mix the best into my cocktails are Beefeater and Bombay Sapphire.  Those two don't impart any "off" flavors to the drink.  The Bombay Sapphire adds some interesting other flavors, so I think that's going to be my go-to gin from now on.  (Beefeater is basically all juniper, which is fine too.)  I find it interesting that Bombay Sapphire is also the brand I grew up seeing in the house for my dad's occasional martini.  It's also the brand my sister and her husband buy.

I've had a gin fizz in New Orleans before, and I really recall liking them.  It's something I've never attempted to make at home, however.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 11:21:05 AM
Vodka - They're essentially all the same, so normally just what's cheap. 

Them's fightin' words!   :)

Also:  Gin is just flavored vodka.  Change my mind.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 06, 2021, 11:25:30 AM
Vodka - They're essentially all the same, so normally just what's cheap. 

Them's fightin' words!   :)

Vodka is meant to be an odorless, flavorless spirit.  So yes, they should all be basically the same.  The only differences in vodka are the water source (which obviously could have other dissolved solids giving different flavors) and the heads/hearts/tails ratio.  Outside of the absolute cheapest vodkas (Barton, McCormick, Viaka, etc.), those ratios are nearly the same with all other brands.  No need to spend $40 on a bottle of Belvedere when a $16 bottle of Monopolowa is the same quality level.

Also:  Gin is just flavored vodka.  Change my mind.

No need to change your mind. I'm in 100% agreement.

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: jmacswimmer on May 06, 2021, 11:26:12 AM
My go-to's are Tito's for vodka, and Captain Morgan (spiced) for rum.  With those I'll typically make vodka+ginger ale & rum+coke.

In a bar setting, my fiancée & I agree that the Long Island Iced Tea is only to be ordered if we desire an especially rowdy evening... :sombrero:
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 06, 2021, 11:29:24 AM
In a bar setting, the Long Island Iced Tea is only to be ordered if we desire an especially rowdy evening... :sombrero:

I always find this mentality a little interesting.  A Long Island doesn't have any more liquor than any other cocktail.  It does have more liquors.  Just because it comes with vodka, gin, rum, and triple sec, the standard recipe only comes with a 1/2 oz. each of the vodka and gin and 1/4 oz. each of rum and triple sec.  1.5 oz. of liquor is the same that most restaurants/bars pour for a standard vodka & soda.

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kevinb1994 on May 06, 2021, 11:31:51 AM
Anyone here have had vodka icees? The ones you get at Costco (they came in a big container). Good Christmas gift.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 06, 2021, 11:35:15 AM
Anyone here have had iced vodka icees? The ones you get at Costco (they came in a big container). Good Christmas gift.

I feel like that might give me three different headaches at once - one from the sugar, one from the liquor, and one from the brain freeze.  :D

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kevinb1994 on May 06, 2021, 11:36:11 AM
Anyone here have had iced vodka icees? The ones you get at Costco (they came in a big container). Good Christmas gift.

I feel like that might give me three different headaches at once - one from the sugar, one from the liquor, and one from the brain freeze.  :D

Chris
Yeah, one must be careful with it.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: OCGuy81 on May 06, 2021, 11:44:14 AM
Anyone here have had vodka icees? The ones you get at Costco (they came in a big container). Good Christmas gift.

My sister had bought those last year to take out on their boat.  Her and my wife seemed to enjoy them, I stuck with beer that day.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: jmacswimmer on May 06, 2021, 11:44:43 AM
In a bar setting, the Long Island Iced Tea is only to be ordered if we desire an especially rowdy evening... :sombrero:

I always find this mentality a little interesting.  A Long Island doesn't have any more liquor than any other cocktail.  It does have more liquors.  Just because it comes with vodka, gin, rum, and triple sec, the standard recipe only comes with a 1/2 oz. each of the vodka and gin and 1/4 oz. each of rum and triple sec.  1.5 oz. of liquor is the same that most restaurants/bars pour for a standard vodka & soda.

Chris

Maybe it's just the bars I frequent, but when I watch the bartenders make a Long Island they typically heavy-hand all the liquors and then do the shortest blast of coke from the soda gun at the end (and at that point, it's definitely more liquor volume-wise compared to, say, a rum & coke or vodka cranberry).
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 06, 2021, 11:46:42 AM
In a bar setting, the Long Island Iced Tea is only to be ordered if we desire an especially rowdy evening... :sombrero:

I always find this mentality a little interesting.  A Long Island doesn't have any more liquor than any other cocktail.  It does have more liquors.  Just because it comes with vodka, gin, rum, and triple sec, the standard recipe only comes with a 1/2 oz. each of the vodka and gin and 1/4 oz. each of rum and triple sec.  1.5 oz. of liquor is the same that most restaurants/bars pour for a standard vodka & soda.

Chris

Maybe it's just the bars I frequent, but when I watch the bartenders make a Long Island they typically heavy-hand all the liquors and then do the shortest blast of coke from the soda gun at the end (and at that point, it's definitely more liquor volume-wise compared to, say, a rum & coke or vodka cranberry).

It is just supposed to be a splash of Coke, but there's also lemonade/sweet & sour in there for the other mixer.  Heavy-handed bartenders definitely change the equation.

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: 1995hoo on May 06, 2021, 11:47:36 AM
I like various Scotches, Irish whiskies, and bourbons. I do not care for the heavily-peated Scotches (Islays, etc.); I prefer Speysides and Highland malts. I also love Springbank, but it's gotten extraordinarily expensive and is hard to find anyway.

But we don't keep any liquor at home on a routine basis for reasons I don't care to discuss, and usually when I need something for a recipe or similar I buy miniatures. An exception is sometimes when we have someone coming over. My mom came over for Christmas dinner and I got a bottle of Ron Zacapa Centenario rum as an after-dinner drink for the special occasion. I may get another bottle of that for Mother's Day this Sunday because she liked it so much. I can keep a bottle of that around because it's not something that lends itself to pouring as a before-dinner drink, at least not to my taste it doesn't, and it's too expensive to waste mixing it with Coke or similar.



In a bar setting, the Long Island Iced Tea is only to be ordered if we desire an especially rowdy evening... :sombrero:

I always find this mentality a little interesting.  A Long Island doesn't have any more liquor than any other cocktail.  It does have more liquors.  Just because it comes with vodka, gin, rum, and triple sec, the standard recipe only comes with a 1/2 oz. each of the vodka and gin and 1/4 oz. each of rum and triple sec.  1.5 oz. of liquor is the same that most restaurants/bars pour for a standard vodka & soda.

Chris

Maybe it's just the bars I frequent, but when I watch the bartenders make a Long Island they typically heavy-hand all the liquors and then do the shortest blast of coke from the soda gun at the end (and at that point, it's definitely more liquor volume-wise compared to, say, a rum & coke or vodka cranberry).

I'm lazy. When I make that, I use one shot of each liquor. Good thing I have not made one of those in a very long time.

You want a variant on a Long Island, make a Hawaiian Iced Tea: Instead of regular rum, substitute Malibu. I had that at a restaurant in Kapa'a and it was pretty good.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 11:50:11 AM


Vodka - They're essentially all the same, so normally just what's cheap. 

Them's fightin' words!   :)

Vodka is meant to be an odorless, flavorless spirit.  So yes, they should all be basically the same.  The only differences in vodka are the water source (which obviously could have other dissolved solids giving different flavors) and the heads/hearts/tails ratio.  Outside of the absolute cheapest vodkas (Barton, McCormick, Viaka, etc.), those ratios are nearly the same with all other brands.  No need to spend $40 on a bottle of Belvedere when a $16 bottle of Monopolowa is the same quality level.

Oh, I'm not fighting it.  I just know people who would.

My sister says she can tell the difference between different vodkas.  But she is also very sensitive to mineral content in water as well, and can only tolerate certain brands of mineral water.  So, in her case at least, it's believable.


Also:  Gin is just flavored vodka.  Change my mind.

No need to change your mind. I'm in 100% agreement.

I love reading articles and blog posts that have something like "Is gin just flavored vodka?" or "What is the difference between gin and flavored vodka?" in the title.  They go on and on about how gin and vodka have different histories, how gin has a specific definition, the various production methods of each, etc, etc.  And then, at the end, they claim to have shown how gin is not just flavored vodka.  And yet nothing they wrote actually does any such thing.

Here's how I would word the question, and I challenge anyone to answer it:
If Smirnoff produced a vodka that was flavored with juniper berries, coriander, orris root, liquorice, and angelica—then give me one good reason it shouldn't be sold as "gin".
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 06, 2021, 11:51:52 AM
I like various Scotches, Irish whiskies, and bourbons. I do not care for the heavily-peated Scotches (Islays, etc.); I prefer Speysides and Highland malts. I also love Springbank, but it's gotten extraordinarily expensive and is hard to find anyway.

But we don't keep any liquor at home on a routine basis for reasons I don't care to discuss, and usually when I need something for a recipe or similar I buy miniatures. An exception is sometimes when we have someone coming over. My mom came over for Christmas dinner and I got a bottle of Ron Zacapa Centenario rum as an after-dinner drink for the special occasion. I may get another bottle of that for Mother's Day this Sunday because she liked it so much. I can keep a bottle of that around because it's not something that lends itself to pouring as a before-dinner drink, at least not to my taste it doesn't, and it's too expensive to waste mixing it with Coke or similar.

I love Springbank.  I think the 10 year is better than the 15 for my palate.

Ron Zacapa is probably my 2nd favorite rum after the Foursquare that I listed above (and Zacapa is much cheaper).  I also love Smith & Cross for making cocktails since it's so funky.

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: jmacswimmer on May 06, 2021, 11:57:48 AM
In a bar setting, the Long Island Iced Tea is only to be ordered if we desire an especially rowdy evening... :sombrero:

I always find this mentality a little interesting.  A Long Island doesn't have any more liquor than any other cocktail.  It does have more liquors.  Just because it comes with vodka, gin, rum, and triple sec, the standard recipe only comes with a 1/2 oz. each of the vodka and gin and 1/4 oz. each of rum and triple sec.  1.5 oz. of liquor is the same that most restaurants/bars pour for a standard vodka & soda.

Chris

Maybe it's just the bars I frequent, but when I watch the bartenders make a Long Island they typically heavy-hand all the liquors and then do the shortest blast of coke from the soda gun at the end (and at that point, it's definitely more liquor volume-wise compared to, say, a rum & coke or vodka cranberry).

It is just supposed to be a splash of Coke, but there's also lemonade/sweet & sour in there for the other mixer.  Heavy-handed bartenders definitely change the equation.

Chris

From what I've seen, the sweet & sour seems to go back & forth depending on bartender: some add it, some don't (and the ones without are the especially strong ones, since the missing mixer volume is essentially replaced with added liquor).


Re: icee discussion above, anyone here familiar with Smirnoff Ice's?  (And by extension, getting iced?)
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: 1995hoo on May 06, 2021, 11:58:04 AM
I like various Scotches, Irish whiskies, and bourbons. I do not care for the heavily-peated Scotches (Islays, etc.); I prefer Speysides and Highland malts. I also love Springbank, but it's gotten extraordinarily expensive and is hard to find anyway.

But we don't keep any liquor at home on a routine basis for reasons I don't care to discuss, and usually when I need something for a recipe or similar I buy miniatures. An exception is sometimes when we have someone coming over. My mom came over for Christmas dinner and I got a bottle of Ron Zacapa Centenario rum as an after-dinner drink for the special occasion. I may get another bottle of that for Mother's Day this Sunday because she liked it so much. I can keep a bottle of that around because it's not something that lends itself to pouring as a before-dinner drink, at least not to my taste it doesn't, and it's too expensive to waste mixing it with Coke or similar.

I love Springbank.  I think the 10 year is better than the 15 for my palate.

Ron Zacapa is probably my 2nd favorite rum after the Foursquare that I listed above (and Zacapa is much cheaper).  I also love Smith & Cross for making cocktails since it's so funky.

Chris

The Springbank I really like is the 21-year, but I haven't had it in a very long time because the price spiralled completely out of control. It was my father's favorite as well.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 06, 2021, 12:11:24 PM
Re: icee discussion above, anyone here familiar with Smirnoff Ice's?  (And by extension, getting iced?)

The best "icing" of all time was a buddy who put a pencil or something under the flapper in his roommate's toilet.  So it was constantly running and when the roommate lifted up the tank lid to investigate, a delicious Smirnoff Ice was waiting for him.

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: jmacswimmer on May 06, 2021, 12:44:02 PM
Re: icee discussion above, anyone here familiar with Smirnoff Ice's?  (And by extension, getting iced?)

The best "icing" of all time was a buddy who put a pencil or something under the flapper in his roommate's toilet.  So it was constantly running and when the roommate lifted up the tank lid to investigate, a delicious Smirnoff Ice was waiting for him.

Chris

That is some serious dedication, A+ for effort!

My college roommates & I got fairly aggressive with icing during our last semester once we'd all completed degree requirements. One of them, knowing my affinity for mixing Hershey's syrup into milk to make chocolate milk, put an ice in the fridge where I normally kept the Hershey's. 

(And similar to your story, I think one of them once iced another by finding a way to suspend an ice in the toilet bowl.  But more often than not, it was as stupid simple as putting one on a chair right behind the apartment door when we knew someone was about to return from campus.)
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kkt on May 06, 2021, 12:46:35 PM
Vodka - They're essentially all the same, so normally just what's cheap. 

Them's fightin' words!   :)

Vodka is meant to be an odorless, flavorless spirit.  So yes, they should all be basically the same.  The only differences in vodka are the water source (which obviously could have other dissolved solids giving different flavors) and the heads/hearts/tails ratio.  Outside of the absolute cheapest vodkas (Barton, McCormick, Viaka, etc.), those ratios are nearly the same with all other brands.  No need to spend $40 on a bottle of Belvedere when a $16 bottle of Monopolowa is the same quality level.

Also:  Gin is just flavored vodka.  Change my mind.

No need to change your mind. I'm in 100% agreement.

Chris

There are lots of flavored vodkas as well as the flavorless kind.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kkt on May 06, 2021, 12:58:54 PM


Vodka - They're essentially all the same, so normally just what's cheap. 

Them's fightin' words!   :)

Vodka is meant to be an odorless, flavorless spirit.  So yes, they should all be basically the same.  The only differences in vodka are the water source (which obviously could have other dissolved solids giving different flavors) and the heads/hearts/tails ratio.  Outside of the absolute cheapest vodkas (Barton, McCormick, Viaka, etc.), those ratios are nearly the same with all other brands.  No need to spend $40 on a bottle of Belvedere when a $16 bottle of Monopolowa is the same quality level.

Oh, I'm not fighting it.  I just know people who would.

My sister says she can tell the difference between different vodkas.  But she is also very sensitive to mineral content in water as well, and can only tolerate certain brands of mineral water.  So, in her case at least, it's believable.


Also:  Gin is just flavored vodka.  Change my mind.

No need to change your mind. I'm in 100% agreement.

I love reading articles and blog posts that have something like "Is gin just flavored vodka?" or "What is the difference between gin and flavored vodka?" in the title.  They go on and on about how gin and vodka have different histories, how gin has a specific definition, the various production methods of each, etc, etc.  And then, at the end, they claim to have shown how gin is not just flavored vodka.  And yet nothing they wrote actually does any such thing.

Here's how I would word the question, and I challenge anyone to answer it:
If Smirnoff produced a vodka that was flavored with juniper berries, coriander, orris root, liquorice, and angelica—then give me one good reason it shouldn't be sold as "gin".

There's a lot of peculiarities in naming of wines and spirits.  There's the regional names:  if the grapes are from the Champagne region, it's champagne, but the same variety with the same process somewhere else is only sparkling wine.  Then there's the fruit:  grapes that are fermented and then distilled makes brandy, but distilled other fruits get their own special names, or just lumped together as eau de vie.  The liquor business tries to hold on to traditional names for the various liquors, rather than using a strictly logical classification system.

Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on May 06, 2021, 12:59:06 PM
There are lots of flavored vodkas as well as the flavorless kind.

Exactly.  Vodka starts its life as a flavorless distilled spirit.  Flavored vodka has its flavors added to that base spirit in one of a variety of ways.  Our point is that gin is simply one specific flavor profile of vodka.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 06, 2021, 01:13:45 PM

There's a lot of peculiarities in naming of wines and spirits.  There's the regional names:  if the grapes are from the Champagne region, it's champagne, but the same variety with the same process somewhere else is only sparkling wine.  Then there's the fruit:  grapes that are fermented and then distilled makes brandy, but distilled other fruits get their own special names, or just lumped together as eau de vie.  The liquor business tries to hold on to traditional names for the various liquors, rather than using a strictly logical classification system.

Technically eau de vie is before the spirit has been aged, since it's "fresh" and the "water of life" at that point.  So you can still have a grape-based spirit that's called eau de vie and specifically eau de vie de vin.

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: Mr_Northside on May 06, 2021, 03:44:18 PM
For the most part, I mostly just have vodka & coffee liqueur to do up some White Russians.  I still remember on my second or third trip to a liquor store (here in PA, aka "State Store") EVER, a helpful clerk schooled me right.  I went to the counter with actual Kahlúa brand coffee liquor, and absolutely bottom shelf vodka (Vladimir or some shit like that).  There was no line at the register, so he took me back to where the bottles were located and told me to get the lesser known brands of coffee liqueur (usually either Kamora or Kapali) - which were a good bit cheaper, and then even it out by getting a more mid-shelf vodka.  True knowledge that has served me well for a couple of decades now.

I have Rum, but haven't touched it in over a year. 

I don't usually do anything straight up either - Occasionally shots of something if it's sort of a celebratory situation out with people....... maybe.

That being said, there is the Frank Reynolds motto: 
(https://media.tenor.com/images/66259c05147613955c469dca57c9c57e/tenor.png)
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on August 26, 2021, 01:41:13 PM
Besides wine, I also keep gin in the house.  Each weekend, either Saturday afternoon or Sunday afternoon, I make a cocktail.  Either a Gin & Tonic (with a squeeze of lime and a few dashes of Peychaud's bitters), a Tom Collins (with a few dashes of Angostura bitters), a grapefruit gin fizz (with an egg white), or a Salty Dog.  Usually one of the first two.

I've tried several different gins:
  Gordon's London Dry
  Tanqueray Rangpur Lime
  Beefeater London Dry
  Bombay Sapphire London Dry
  Bluecoat American Dry

Of those, the ones that mix the best into my cocktails are Beefeater and Bombay Sapphire.  Those two don't impart any "off" flavors to the drink.  The Bombay Sapphire adds some interesting other flavors, so I think that's going to be my go-to gin from now on.  (Beefeater is basically all juniper, which is fine too.)  I find it interesting that Bombay Sapphire is also the brand I grew up seeing in the house for my dad's occasional martini.  It's also the brand my sister and her husband buy.

I've rounded out my liquor cabinet a bit more since posting this—mainly in preparation for a family vacation to Galveston a couple of months ago, at which I played bartender at the beach house.

Currently in possession:

Gin — Bombay Sapphire
Tequila — Espolón blanco
Rum — Cruzan aged dark
Sweet vermouth — Punt e Mes
Triple sec — Paisley & Sage
Amaretto — Di Saronno
Campari
Aperol
Angostura bitters
Peychaud's bitters
Orange bitters

... and "Kinky":  a god-awful, super-sweet, bright blue liqueur that's impossible to drink straight but completely overpowers anything it's mixed with or anything within a ten-meter radius.

Other stuff on hand:

Tonic — San Pellegrino citrus
Ginger ale — Schweppes bold
Mineral water — La Croix pure

Lemons
Limes

One of my new favorite drinks is the Americano, which is equal parts sweet vermouth and Campari and then topped with mineral water.  Last night, I had one but used Aperol instead of Campari, and that was great too.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on August 26, 2021, 01:49:37 PM
Punt e Mes is nice vermouth.  If you can ever track down a bottle of Del Profesore, that stuff is life changing.

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: Daniel Fiddler on August 26, 2021, 02:11:28 PM
Not currently in my cabinet (I wish), but my favorite liquors:

Lagavulin 16
Grand Marnier (the 150 year anniversary is my absolute favorite liquor of all time, but I've only had it once, when visiting a friend in NYC and NJ)
Jack Daniel's (especially single barrel)
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on August 26, 2021, 02:53:45 PM
Forgot to add...  I also keep pineapple juice, orange juice, grapefruit juice, and maraschino cherries on hand too.

(Can you tell I like citrus fruits?)
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: Daniel Fiddler on August 26, 2021, 03:00:03 PM
Oh, I was not counting the wines, beers, and mixers / juices I kept on hand, only liquors.  When I did drink.  I used to have almost a full mini-bar at my house at one time.

And I forgot to mention absinthe, that's also one of my favorite liquors, or used to be, believe it or not, it takes an acquired taste.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on August 26, 2021, 03:04:23 PM
Forgot to add...  I also keep pineapple juice, orange juice, grapefruit juice, and maraschino cherries on hand too.

(Can you tell I like citrus fruits?)

Do you use amarone cherries like Toschi or Luxardo? Or just the generic neon-red Shirley Temple types?  If the latter, I highly recommend purchasing some of the former for things like Manhattans, Aviations, etc.

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on August 26, 2021, 03:10:15 PM

Forgot to add...  I also keep pineapple juice, orange juice, grapefruit juice, and maraschino cherries on hand too.

(Can you tell I like citrus fruits?)

Do you use amarone cherries like Toschi or Luxardo? Or just the generic neon-red Shirley Temple types?  If the latter, I highly recommend purchasing some of the former for things like Manhattans, Aviations, etc.

Store brand, fluorescent red cherries in toxic slime.  I really only keep them around for the syrup, which I occasionally add to an amaretto sour.  (and to put on ice cream, of course)
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on August 26, 2021, 03:11:53 PM

Forgot to add...  I also keep pineapple juice, orange juice, grapefruit juice, and maraschino cherries on hand too.

(Can you tell I like citrus fruits?)

Do you use amarone cherries like Toschi or Luxardo? Or just the generic neon-red Shirley Temple types?  If the latter, I highly recommend purchasing some of the former for things like Manhattans, Aviations, etc.

Store brand, fluorescent red cherries in toxic slime.  I really only keep them around for the syrup, which I occasionally add to an amaretto sour.  (and to put on ice cream, of course)

Probably get a better bang for your buck with Rose's Grenadine, but to each their own.

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: Daniel Fiddler on August 26, 2021, 03:18:50 PM

Forgot to add...  I also keep pineapple juice, orange juice, grapefruit juice, and maraschino cherries on hand too.

(Can you tell I like citrus fruits?)

Do you use amarone cherries like Toschi or Luxardo? Or just the generic neon-red Shirley Temple types?  If the latter, I highly recommend purchasing some of the former for things like Manhattans, Aviations, etc.

Store brand, fluorescent red cherries in toxic slime.  I really only keep them around for the syrup, which I occasionally add to an amaretto sour.  (and to put on ice cream, of course)

I remember a party where a Star Wars group encouraged me to out-do my younger brother when he got so drunk he passed out in the floor and they put pepperoni slices over his eyes and took a picture.

They opened a quart jar of maraschino cherries and vodka and told me to help myself, I think I ate / drank most of the entire jar.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on August 26, 2021, 03:24:45 PM
Such behavior holds zero appeal for me.  I do not desire to do any of the following:

- make an utter fool of myself
- fall over
- throw up
- pass out
- have a hangover the next day
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: Daniel Fiddler on August 26, 2021, 03:28:14 PM
Such behavior holds zero appeal for me.  I do not desire to do any of the following:

- make an utter fool of myself
- fall over
- throw up
- pass out
- have a hangover the next day

Same here now.  Although then I didn’t care, I was in my early or mid 20’s.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kkt on August 26, 2021, 04:33:07 PM
What I buy for myself:

Scotch, Lagavulin 16yo
Cognac, Paulet VSOP
Kahlua
Cointreau
Grand Marnier
Ficklin (California) Port

And I have a lot of liqueurs, mostly fruit brandies, inheritited from my mom.  She drank, and I drink, hardly at all - a tiny glass every couple of months, if that.  It's nice enjoyed at that amount, for the flavor.  I am not a happy drunk so I never go beyond a small glass.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: hbelkins on August 27, 2021, 04:21:52 PM
I have never been a fan of the taste of alcoholic beverages. I know there are a number of roadgeeks who enjoy the taste of beer and ale and will sample different kinds of brews, but I'm not one of them.

Ditto for bourbon. Since I live in bourbon distilling country, I know lots of people who enjoy it. I'm definitely not one of them. After one unfortunate episode involving Makers Mark when I was in my 20s, I cannot even stomach the smell of whiskey anymore.

If I never have another drink again in my life, it will be no great loss.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: interstatefan990 on August 27, 2021, 04:31:34 PM
I enjoy liquor best when it’s added to another drink or a cocktail mixer. Spiked lemonade made with tequila is one of my favorites, as is a strawberry mojito. I generally avoid whiskey or bourbon for the most part.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on August 27, 2021, 04:50:59 PM
I have never been a fan of the taste of alcoholic beverages. I know there are a number of roadgeeks who enjoy the taste of beer and ale and will sample different kinds of brews, but I'm not one of them.

Ditto for bourbon. Since I live in bourbon distilling country, I know lots of people who enjoy it. I'm definitely not one of them. After one unfortunate episode involving Makers Mark when I was in my 20s, I cannot even stomach the smell of whiskey anymore.

If I never have another drink again in my life, it will be no great loss.

I suspect you simply don't like bitter flavors, considering you also don't like coffee.

In that case, you might actually like frou-frou drinks such as a Cosmopolitan.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 29, 2021, 11:32:52 PM
I have never been a fan of the taste of alcoholic beverages. I know there are a number of roadgeeks who enjoy the taste of beer and ale and will sample different kinds of brews, but I'm not one of them.

Ditto for bourbon. Since I live in bourbon distilling country, I know lots of people who enjoy it. I'm definitely not one of them. After one unfortunate episode involving Makers Mark when I was in my 20s, I cannot even stomach the smell of whiskey anymore.

If I never have another drink again in my life, it will be no great loss.

I tell you what, I love how hard it is to pin you down, HB. You don't like booze, you don't like tobacco, you don't like weed, you're fairly conservative (compared to me :P), but you have great taste in what "the kids" would consider "old school" hard rock.   It pains me to see a Kentuckian who doesn't like bourbon (one of our American originals!) but when I read you talk about ACDC and Metallica and Ozzy and so on in other threads, I'm like, "This guy gets it." :-D

You're Punk Rock but only where you want to be and I respect that.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: Throckmorton on August 30, 2021, 08:39:23 PM
   
I'm thinking of cutting down on my drinking. I'm going to start using four ice cubes in my highball instead of three.   
   
   
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: SP Cook on August 31, 2021, 10:01:33 AM

Ditto for bourbon. Since I live in bourbon distilling country, I know lots of people who enjoy it.

Iron is the enemy of proper distillation.  Central Kentucky, and a smaller patch in Tennessee, is blessed with deep limestone caves with water that has been down there for centuries, 100% iron free.  This is why all good bourbon, IMHO, all bourbon, is made there. 

Whether one drinks or not, the tours of the distilleries, especially Buffalo Trace, and especially if you can get Freddie Johnson as the tour guide, are great day trips.  Pretty much you can do a triangle of I-64, I-65 and the BGP and get most of them. 

Rant:  Drink what you like, but avoid anything from the “Potemkin” distillery, of Midwestern Grain Products, or MGP, in Lawrenceburg, IN.  The place was, for over a century, a plant that produced “filler” (grain alcohol added to rot gut whiskeys) for Seagram’s.  When they shut it, this crew bought it and if you want to trick people into thinking you are a “distiller” they will sell you some barrels and you can take it home, generally making up some fake country-western story about your family, and bottle it. 

Any whiskey claimed to be made outside the bourbon producing region is probably MGP.  They have made over 150 brands.  Its all the same, and its all rot gut.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on August 31, 2021, 10:17:18 AM
Rant:  Drink what you like, but avoid anything from the “Potemkin” distillery, of Midwestern Grain Products, or MGP, in Lawrenceburg, IN.  The place was, for over a century, a plant that produced “filler” (grain alcohol added to rot gut whiskeys) for Seagram’s.  When they shut it, this crew bought it and if you want to trick people into thinking you are a “distiller” they will sell you some barrels and you can take it home, generally making up some fake country-western story about your family, and bottle it. 

Any whiskey claimed to be made outside the bourbon producing region is probably MGP.  They have made over 150 brands.  Its all the same, and its all rot gut.

That's a touch misleading, as there are plenty of grain to glass distillers out there that aren't in Kentucky.  But, I do agree that just getting MGP juice, aging it yourself and calling it "your whiskey" is a little bit underhanded.

Some good grain to glass whiskies out here: A.D. Law's, 10th Mountain, Wyoming Whiskey, Woody Creek, and Deviation Distilling (only his Barista series whiskeys are out, the other are all still in barrel, but I've gotten to barrel sample and they're delicious)

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kkt on August 31, 2021, 07:00:20 PM
   
I'm thinking of cutting down on my drinking. I'm going to start using four ice cubes in my highball instead of three.   

 :-D
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kkt on August 31, 2021, 07:06:41 PM
Any whiskey claimed to be made outside the bourbon producing region is probably MGP.  They have made over 150 brands.  Its all the same, and its all rot gut.

Thanks for the warning, but isn't it a little too general?  Any whiskey outside the Bourbon region??  I guess that about wraps it up for Scotland.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: 1995hoo on August 31, 2021, 08:41:53 PM
Any whiskey claimed to be made outside the bourbon producing region is probably MGP.  They have made over 150 brands.  Its all the same, and its all rot gut.

Thanks for the warning, but isn't it a little too general?  Any whiskey outside the Bourbon region??  I guess that about wraps it up for Scotland.


Scotland doesn’t make "whiskey," only "whisky."

:bigass:
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: hbelkins on August 31, 2021, 08:54:00 PM
I have never been a fan of the taste of alcoholic beverages. I know there are a number of roadgeeks who enjoy the taste of beer and ale and will sample different kinds of brews, but I'm not one of them.

Ditto for bourbon. Since I live in bourbon distilling country, I know lots of people who enjoy it. I'm definitely not one of them. After one unfortunate episode involving Makers Mark when I was in my 20s, I cannot even stomach the smell of whiskey anymore.

If I never have another drink again in my life, it will be no great loss.

I tell you what, I love how hard it is to pin you down, HB. You don't like booze, you don't like tobacco, you don't like weed, you're fairly conservative (compared to me :P), but you have great taste in what "the kids" would consider "old school" hard rock.   It pains me to see a Kentuckian who doesn't like bourbon (one of our American originals!) but when I read you talk about ACDC and Metallica and Ozzy and so on in other threads, I'm like, "This guy gets it." :-D

You're Punk Rock but only where you want to be and I respect that.

In my youth (late 20s to very early 30s) I consumed a decent amount of alcohol, but finally figured out that there was really nothing in it for me. I never had any desire to be a tobacco user, as I saw smoking kill too many people I loved. And being intoxicated in general never really appealed to me; certainly not intoxicants that were illegal, were consumed via the ingestion of hot smoke into the lungs, or could lead to addiction. I just figured out that it was a lifestyle that wasn't for me.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: SP Cook on September 01, 2021, 09:17:32 AM

Thanks for the warning, but isn't it a little too general?  Any whiskey outside the Bourbon region??  I guess that about wraps it up for Scotland.


I plead 100% guilty to posting an America/Kentucky-centric post.  Scotch, and other Whiskey/whisky forms, such as “American whiskey” not labeled as “bourbon”, Irish, Japanese, Canadian, etc. are all enjoyable forms of the craft.  I was speaking of things called “bourbon” not made in bourbon country.

Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on September 01, 2021, 09:41:02 AM

Thanks for the warning, but isn't it a little too general?  Any whiskey outside the Bourbon region??  I guess that about wraps it up for Scotland.


I plead 100% guilty to posting an America/Kentucky-centric post.  Scotch, and other Whiskey/whisky forms, such as “American whiskey” not labeled as “bourbon”, Irish, Japanese, Canadian, etc. are all enjoyable forms of the craft.  I was speaking of things called “bourbon” not made in bourbon country.

Again, I'll be contrarian (maybe not kphoger levels of contrarianism, but contrarian nonetheless).  This isn't the same things as crappy California wineries calling wine they made in the 70's "Chablis".  Bourbon is surely named after Bourbon County, Kentucky, but it's never needed to have come from there.  The only requirements to be called bourbon are a) made in the U.S., b) made from 51% corn minimum, c) aged in charred, new, white American oak barrels, d) distilled to no more than 160 proof, e) aged at no more than 125 proof, and f) bottled at no less than 80 proof.

So, again, not using the crappy juice from Indiana (which, I agree, is largely terrible), anywhere in the U.S. can make great Bourbon.  There are some darn good ones from Kentucky, yes, but it's not a requirement nor is it actually representative of the high level whiskeys in the marketplace.  I know I'd much rather drink a couple fingers of A.D. Law's Four Grain Bourbon made here in Denver than I would a couple fingers of Jim Beam or Old Granddad.

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: SP Cook on September 01, 2021, 11:51:41 AM
We will just have to agree to disagree.  You correctly quote the federal regulations.  Which Freddie also quotes on his tour.  To which he adds, and I agree, “so you can make ‘bourbon’ anywhere, but if it isn’t made here, you don’t want it.”
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on September 01, 2021, 11:57:04 AM
We will just have to agree to disagree.  You correctly quote the federal regulations.  Which Freddie also quotes on his tour.  To which he adds, and I agree, “so you can make ‘bourbon’ anywhere, but if it isn’t made here, you don’t want it.”

Hey, it's good to have pride in where you're from.  Not disagreeing with that at all.  If you ever make it out to Denver, I'll buy a pour of some of our good stuff so you can compare.

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: english si on September 01, 2021, 01:15:08 PM
anywhere in the U.S. can make great Bourbon.
They might make great whiskey that can legally be called Bourbon, but is it actually Bourbon without the sense of place? It's like if a Kentucky distiller called their product 'Scotch'. It might be great, but its got a different quality to how its advertised.

The water used, the air around the barrels as it ages, etc - they aren't the same elsewhere as in Bourbon County. Nearby they are similar enough that it doesn't matter, but elsewhere you are going to have to deal with the differences - either by artificially making things more similar, or by not caring about the differences.

A lot of breweries in the UK 'Burtonise' the water to give it a similar mineral content to the water in Burton-upon-Trent. Because this stuff does matter.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on September 01, 2021, 01:29:41 PM
Vodka is meant to be an odorless, flavorless spirit.  So yes, they should all be basically the same.  The only differences in vodka are the water source (which obviously could have other dissolved solids giving different flavors) and the heads/hearts/tails ratio.

My sister says she can tell the difference between different vodkas.  But she is also very sensitive to mineral content in water as well, and can only tolerate certain brands of mineral water.  So, in her case at least, it's believable.

The water used ...

A lot of breweries in the UK 'Burtonise' the water to give it a similar mineral content to the water in Burton-upon-Trent. Because this stuff does matter.

Yep.  The water matters.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on September 01, 2021, 01:49:59 PM
anywhere in the U.S. can make great Bourbon.
They might make great whiskey that can legally be called Bourbon, but is it actually Bourbon without the sense of place? It's like if a Kentucky distiller called their product 'Scotch'. It might be great, but its got a different quality to how its advertised.

The water used, the air around the barrels as it ages, etc - they aren't the same elsewhere as in Bourbon County. Nearby they are similar enough that it doesn't matter, but elsewhere you are going to have to deal with the differences - either by artificially making things more similar, or by not caring about the differences.

A lot of breweries in the UK 'Burtonise' the water to give it a similar mineral content to the water in Burton-upon-Trent. Because this stuff does matter.

Understood, but just as a lot of breweries Burtonize their water, some others also add and remove things to make it more like the water of Plzen (home of Pilsner).  Both are great styles of beer. Bourbon County has water sources that are unique as does Colorado.  Both can make great Bourbons. 

The Scotch whisky example is a little bit different.  If they make "Scotch" in Kentucky, in reality the only way to do it would be to import peated malt from Scotland, as those nice chunks of dried up bog aren't readily available in Louisville.  So they're making it in a different place with most of the same ingredients exactly. It would be fairly easy to create a decent Scotch if you're basically moving Iverness to Lexington.  It's not possible to get those same funky iodiny flavors without a lot of imports, whereas that's not the case with Bourbon.

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: english si on September 01, 2021, 02:36:20 PM
Understood, but just as a lot of breweries Burtonize their water, some others also add and remove things to make it more like the water of Plzen (home of Pilsner).  Both are great styles of beer. Bourbon County has water sources that are unique as does Colorado.  Both can make great Bourbons.
Yes, and just as Burton and Plzen water both make great beer, they don't make the same beer. Likewise Bourbon County and Colorado water both make great whiskey, they don't make the same whiskey without a lot of effort to turn Colorado into artificial-Kentucky (the kind of stuff you talk about to make Scotch in Kentucky).

I'm not saying anything bad at all about Colorado Whiskey. I'm just saying it's a misbranding to call it Bourbon unless they muck about with the water and all that.
Quote
The Scotch whisky example is a little bit different.  If they make "Scotch" in Kentucky, in reality the only way to do it would be to import peated malt from Scotland, as those nice chunks of dried up bog aren't readily available in Louisville.  So they're making it in a different place with most of the same ingredients exactly. It would be fairly easy to create a decent Scotch if you're basically moving Iverness to Lexington.  It's not possible to get those same funky iodiny flavors without a lot of imports, whereas that's not the case with Bourbon.
Scotch (like Burton beer) isn't a specific style, but covers a wider range. A lot of Scotch isn't peated, though some styles are.

Ireland has similar geology, water, peat, etc as parts of Scotland. It can't make Scotch, despite doing a similar recipe, but makes fine whiskeys that are it's own. All the more so for Kentucky and Colorado, which don't have anywhere near the same similarities in locally-available flavourings.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on September 01, 2021, 02:39:58 PM
nice chunks of dried up bog

muck about

I see what you did there.   ;-)
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: hbelkins on September 01, 2021, 02:52:59 PM
Actually, I'm unaware of any distilleries located in Bourbon County. Bourbon County is more known for horses than for whiskey.

There are several distilleries, however, in nearby Franklin, Anderson, and Woodford counties. A tour of the Woodford Reserve distillery was actually part of a tax administrators' conference Kentucky hosted in 1999. I was there as a photographer.

The Kentucky Bourbon Trail is indeed being marketed as a tourist activity.

For six years, I worked in an office in Frankfort that was an old warehouse leased from Buffalo Trace. There's a decent concentration of distilleries in the Nelson County/Bardstown area.

Side note: Anyone who has traveled I-65 in southern Bullitt County, Ky., has probably noticed black spotting on many of the signs. This is due to the emissions from the nearby Jim Beam distillery at Clermont (where my uncle worked for years before his retirement). On humid, foggy days in Frankfort, the odor from the Buffalo Trace distillery can be detected for miles. On a couple of recent trips to Frankfort, I've noticed the black residue popping up on road signs as far away as the US 60/421/460 intersection and at the top of the hill going north on US 127.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on September 01, 2021, 04:07:37 PM
Understood, but just as a lot of breweries Burtonize their water, some others also add and remove things to make it more like the water of Plzen (home of Pilsner).  Both are great styles of beer. Bourbon County has water sources that are unique as does Colorado.  Both can make great Bourbons.
Yes, and just as Burton and Plzen water both make great beer, they don't make the same beer. Likewise Bourbon County and Colorado water both make great whiskey, they don't make the same whiskey without a lot of effort to turn Colorado into artificial-Kentucky (the kind of stuff you talk about to make Scotch in Kentucky).

I'm not saying anything bad at all about Colorado Whiskey. I'm just saying it's a misbranding to call it Bourbon unless they muck about with the water and all that.

But the difference in this case is that the Colorado distiller is (likely) not actively trying to make a hugely different style of whiskey than the Kentucky distiller, whereas Bass and Pilsner Urquell are massively different intentionally.  I only brought up the different waters to show that there isn't just one exact profile of an ingredient that is required to make a certain beverage.  Both Plzen water and Burton-on-Trent water make beer.  But then when using those waters traditionally, those brewers are using other different ingredients to make their signature product.  Bass obviously is an ale, so it requires top fermenting yeast and different roasts of the malt.  Pilsner Urquell needs bottom fermenting yeast and has to ferment at a lower temperature, yadda, yadda, yadda.  They're both beer but massively different products because of more than just their water source.  With American whiskeys, there isn't as much variety because of the legal specifications of what constitutes Bourbon, Straight Bourbon, Bottled In Bond Bourbon, etc. 


Quote
The Scotch whisky example is a little bit different.  If they make "Scotch" in Kentucky, in reality the only way to do it would be to import peated malt from Scotland, as those nice chunks of dried up bog aren't readily available in Louisville.  So they're making it in a different place with most of the same ingredients exactly. It would be fairly easy to create a decent Scotch if you're basically moving Iverness to Lexington.  It's not possible to get those same funky iodiny flavors without a lot of imports, whereas that's not the case with Bourbon.
Scotch (like Burton beer) isn't a specific style, but covers a wider range. A lot of Scotch isn't peated, though some styles are.

And obviously by bringing up peat, I was ignoring Highlands and Lowlands whiskies that largely don't use peated malt, but I was trying to make a point.  If you use only local ingredients in Kentucky, you're never going to make anything that tastes remotely like Dalwhinnie or Laphroaig.  But if you imported a lot of ingredients from Scotland, you could create a reasonable facsimile thereof. 

Ireland has similar geology, water, peat, etc as parts of Scotland. It can't make Scotch, despite doing a similar recipe, but makes fine whiskeys that are it's own. All the more so for Kentucky and Colorado, which don't have anywhere near the same similarities in locally-available flavourings.

They're actually not similar recipes though.  They're actually closer to my beer example above.  Scotch uses only malted barley.  Irish whisky uses mostly unmalted barley. Scotch is typically double distilled while Irish is triple distilled, making Irish whisky generally smoother and lighter.  Scotch uses a whole bunch of different styles of copper stills whereas Irish whisky is normally distilled in one particular kind (which is why there is less variety in Irish whisky than Scotch).  The differences between Ireland and Scotland and their whisky traditions are MUCH larger than the differences between Colorado and Kentucky.

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on September 01, 2021, 04:08:19 PM
Actually, I'm unaware of any distilleries located in Bourbon County. Bourbon County is more known for horses than for whiskey.

If I'm not mistaken, since it's a dry county, they can't make whiskey there.

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: SP Cook on September 01, 2021, 04:20:14 PM
The county where they make Jack Daniels is also dry.

Bourbon County used to be a lot bigger, it got subdivided lots of times.  The parts that gave their names to the drink are now in other counties.

Anyway, some guys opened a “craft” distiller in Paris about 4 years ago.  Use a small still and 6 gallon barrels.   I have not had the product.

Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: hbelkins on September 01, 2021, 06:33:10 PM
Actually, I'm unaware of any distilleries located in Bourbon County. Bourbon County is more known for horses than for whiskey.

If I'm not mistaken, since it's a dry county, they can't make whiskey there.

Chris

Actually, Bourbon County is wet -- the county seat of Paris certainly has been for years. There was an old saying, "Bourbon County is dry but Christian County is wet," but that's not true and hasn't been for years. You have been able to legally buy alcohol within the boundaries of Bourbon County for as long as I can remember.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on September 01, 2021, 06:37:02 PM
Actually, I'm unaware of any distilleries located in Bourbon County. Bourbon County is more known for horses than for whiskey.

If I'm not mistaken, since it's a dry county, they can't make whiskey there.

Chris

Actually, Bourbon County is wet -- the county seat of Paris certainly has been for years. There was an old saying, "Bourbon County is dry but Christian County is wet," but that's not true and hasn't been for years. You have been able to legally buy alcohol within the boundaries of Bourbon County for as long as I can remember.

Gotcha.  That's why I prefaced with "If I'm not mistaken".  I know I had heard that it was before, but apparently never took the time to verify.  Good to know, thanks.

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: english si on September 02, 2021, 08:10:29 AM
But the difference in this case is that the Colorado distiller is (likely) not actively trying to make a hugely different style of whiskey than the Kentucky distiller, whereas Bass and Pilsner Urquell are massively different intentionally.
My point is that the brewers elsewhere are trying to make specific styles of beer and so copy the water of where that style was first made as its a key part of the recipe. It's not just "get good water" with Burton and Plzen waters both being good water for making beer and thus interchangeable - the waters make radically different beer, because they are radically different - as different as the different yeasts in the two different styles.

The difference in the other ingredients owes a lot to the difference in the water - arguably its in the ingredient that shapes the beer style the most. The soft water of Bohemia lends itself to lagering, the hard water of central/southern England lends itself to making darker ales (and that's just dealing with one factor of the water). Colorado water is significantly harder than the softer waters of Kentucky and Tennessee (https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/map-water-hardness-united-states) (the area where almost all Bourbon is made, though Tennessee doesn't like using that name to describe its similar whiskey) - that's going to give its own distinct features. They might not actively be trying to make a different style of whiskey, but are they actively trying to make that same style? Does the Colorado distillery make its water more Appalachian the way that brewers make their waters more like Burton/Plzen?

Quote
But if you imported a lot of ingredients from Scotland, you could create a reasonable facsimile thereof.
So you can't make Scotch in Kentucky, but you can make "a reasonable facsimile" if you import a lot of ingredients. By this line of reasoning, you can make "a reasonable facsimile" of Bourbon in Colorado if you transport ingredients from further east. Lets suggest the adjusting of ingredients to match the original locale as being the same as importing.* But if its just going with the bare minimum legal definition (designed for defining the product for export to certain countries who use the term 'Bourbon' to mean 'American whiskey' while trying not to sully the term too much domestically), and using unaltered local ingredients, it's not even making "a reasonable facsimile" of what people actually mean by Bourbon. That's fine, but it is its own thing, not Bourbon.

*Even with beer - which is much easier to fake certain conditions than whiskey as you don't store it for years relatively exposed to outside conditions - there's been issues with certain beers (eg Guinness, Doom Bar) that didn't have the capacity to meet demand in the original brewery so they used breweries a couple of hundred miles away to meet certain markets. Obviously they mucked about with the water, used the same suppliers for the other products, but people could tell the difference and viewed the original as superior, leading to, eventually (not sure its happened yet with Doom Bar) all be made in much larger facilities near the original site.
Quote
The differences between Ireland and Scotland and their whisky traditions are MUCH larger than the differences between Colorado and Kentucky.
But the available ingredients are MUCH closer in Ireland to Scotland than the Rockies to the Appalachians. Ditto storing conditions and other such things that effect the product. I'm talking about if someone wanted to make Scotch in Ireland, using a similar recipe, not saying that they do actually use a similar recipe.

If an Irish distiller wanted to make Scotch with the peating, the malting, the only distilling twice, etc but didn't import (or muck about with to make closer) the ingredients, it wouldn't be Scotch, merely a similar product. We're talking about a step further away than what you call "a reasonable facsimile" here. But still closer than Bourbon made in Colorado as the difference in the ingredients and conditions is less.

Let Colorado be proud of what it makes, rather than trying to pretend its something else. That's what Tennessee does, despite having much more similar conditions to Kentucky than Colorado!

Going back to Pilsner, Miller Lite is not a Pilsner despite its branding in the US as such. For a start, it uses corn syrup to supplement the malt's sugars - a big no no for beer in Central Europe. It uses Galena hops in addition to the variety that define Pilsner. It's a Pilsner-based recipe, but it isn't a Pilsner. It adds stuff - as would using harder water in your Bourbon recipe. Doesn't mean its a bad beer, just means its mislabelled. I'm not particularly fussed if a Pilsner is made in Czechia or Canada, but there's defining elements of the style that require fairly precise ingredients (one of which is water). Same with Bourbon.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on September 02, 2021, 01:02:27 PM
First things first, before I respond, a good article for anyone interested in MGP (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/behind-misleading-claims-fueling-america-s-bourbon-boom-n879651) (the Indiana distillery that produces a lot of whiskey for places that basically claim they make it themselves).

And apologies for the length of the post, but you put a lot of thought into yours, and I wanted to be able to respond as thoroughly.

My point is that the brewers elsewhere are trying to make specific styles of beer and so copy the water of where that style was first made as its a key part of the recipe. It's not just "get good water" with Burton and Plzen waters both being good water for making beer and thus interchangeable - the waters make radically different beer, because they are radically different - as different as the different yeasts in the two different styles.

The difference in the other ingredients owes a lot to the difference in the water - arguably its in the ingredient that shapes the beer style the most. The soft water of Bohemia lends itself to lagering, the hard water of central/southern England lends itself to making darker ales (and that's just dealing with one factor of the water). Colorado water is significantly harder than the softer waters of Kentucky and Tennessee (https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/map-water-hardness-united-states) (the area where almost all Bourbon is made, though Tennessee doesn't like using that name to describe its similar whiskey) - that's going to give its own distinct features. They might not actively be trying to make a different style of whiskey, but are they actively trying to make that same style? Does the Colorado distillery make its water more Appalachian the way that brewers make their waters more like Burton/Plzen?

I largely don't disagree with you, but as you mentioned in your reply, water is the most important ingredient in beer.  It comprises 90-95% of the product, so of course it has a reasonably large impact on the flavor profile of different styles of beer.  But obviously at a higher proof, there's less water in whiskey comparatively, so in turn it's less important in the overall composition.  I'm not saying that it isn't important, but I would argue that it's less important than the grain, the barrels and other things that import flavor that comes across more easily than sedimentary materials in the water itself.  I just texted a distiller friend of mine who says that everyone modifies pH and removes chlorine (everywhere), but he isn't familiar with any distilleries filtering through limestone.  He also said that a lot of distilleries out here dilute with Eldorado Springs water to market it as Coloradoan.

So you can't make Scotch in Kentucky, but you can make "a reasonable facsimile" if you import a lot of ingredients. By this line of reasoning, you can make "a reasonable facsimile" of Bourbon in Colorado if you transport ingredients from further east. Lets suggest the adjusting of ingredients to match the original locale as being the same as importing.* But if its just going with the bare minimum legal definition (designed for defining the product for export to certain countries who use the term 'Bourbon' to mean 'American whiskey' while trying not to sully the term too much domestically), and using unaltered local ingredients, it's not even making "a reasonable facsimile" of what people actually mean by Bourbon. That's fine, but it is its own thing, not Bourbon.

Well, to start with, in my opinion the most important flavor component in whiskey is the barrel.  By definition, for bourbon, the barrels have to be new, charred, American white oak.  So that limits the amount of differentiation to start with.  Whereas Scotch might utilize used bourbon or used sherry barrels for their aging, that's not allowed when you call it bourbon.  In addition, almost every distiller gets their barrels from Independent Stave, a company based in Missouri.  So if everyone is using the same barrels for their whiskey, again, there isn't really going to be a differentiation between different regions if the same component is used in all places.  Then the other barrel component is the amount of char, which even within Kentucky/Tennessee varies distiller to distiller, so there's not a Kentucky type char and a Colorado type char.  It's all allowed to be called bourbon as long as there is some char.

As for the grain itself, of course there will be a little bit of differentiation in the corn and/or adjuncts based on where they're grown.  The real question is would corn grown in Kentucky taste different than the corn grown in Colorado?  To be honest, I don't know.  I know distilleries like to use their grain as a marketing technique, but it remains to be seen if anyone can actually smell/taste the difference of the "grain terroir".  But this isn't like wine where I can smell the difference between grapes grown in limestone soil vs. a clay soil, which as a trained sommelier, I can do rather easily.  I'd argue the most important contribution the grain provides to flavor is the grain bill itself, i.e. the percentages of corn, rye, barley, wheat, etc. And again, that varies just as much amongst Kentucky distillers as it does anywhere else.

My distiller friend said the following:
Quote
Commodity corn probably isn't going to taste any different, and that is what most use.  Heirloom varieties (blue corn, etc.) do taste different, but that's probably not a product of where it's grown.

But the available ingredients are MUCH closer in Ireland to Scotland than the Rockies to the Appalachians.

I already argued against this above.

Ditto storing conditions and other such things that effect the product. I'm talking about if someone wanted to make Scotch in Ireland, using a similar recipe, not saying that they do actually use a similar recipe.

If an Irish distiller wanted to make Scotch with the peating, the malting, the only distilling twice, etc but didn't import (or muck about with to make closer) the ingredients, it wouldn't be Scotch, merely a similar product. We're talking about a step further away than what you call "a reasonable facsimile" here. But still closer than Bourbon made in Colorado as the difference in the ingredients and conditions is less.

The storage conditions are going to be largely the same for bourbon however, as again, it has to be in the same kind of barrel.  Yes, there could be temperature/humidity variations depending on where you age the barrels, but I would argue that those effects are probably less than you'd think.  Look at Maker's Mark or Jim Beam.  They produce so much bourbon that they are aging their barrels in a climate controlled warehouse, not some specific cave with endemic bacteria and yeast that affect the flavor.

Let Colorado be proud of what it makes, rather than trying to pretend its something else. That's what Tennessee does, despite having much more similar conditions to Kentucky than Colorado!

We are proud that we make damn great bourbon!  And re: Tennessee, there's is just a marketing technique too.  Calling it "sour mash whiskey" is just announcing on the bottle a technique that almost all distillers use, Tennessee or not.  There is nothing different about Tennessee's whiskey.  And Colorado distillers proudly call out that it's Colorado bourbon too, but I just take it for what it's worth that we're not doing things dramatically differently than our Appalachian counterparts.  It's a lot like Tito's that became insanely popular because they labeled their vodka as gluten free.  Well no shit, Sherlock.  All spirits are gluten free unless they have additives like flavored vodka or something along those lines.

Going back to Pilsner, Miller Lite is not a Pilsner despite its branding in the US as such. For a start, it uses corn syrup to supplement the malt's sugars - a big no no for beer in Central Europe. It uses Galena hops in addition to the variety that define Pilsner. It's a Pilsner-based recipe, but it isn't a Pilsner. It adds stuff - as would using harder water in your Bourbon recipe. Doesn't mean its a bad beer, just means its mislabelled. I'm not particularly fussed if a Pilsner is made in Czechia or Canada, but there's defining elements of the style that require fairly precise ingredients (one of which is water). Same with Bourbon.

I agree that labeling matters.  There needs to be certain standards for sure.  But I think the crux of my argument (and for the record, I'm enjoying this discussion, so thanks for engaging), is I look at bourbon like I look at Burgundy.  In Burgundy, there are very specific rules.  If it's red, it's Pinot Noir -- the end.  If it's white, it's Chardonnay or, very rarely in comparison, Aligoté.  But within Burgundy, there are large differences.  Those from the Côte de Nuits (the northern part of Côte d'Or) are a lot more delicate and elegant.  Those from the Côte de Beaune (southern part of Côte d'Or) are more powerhouses.  The cheaper whites (village level and below) are rarely aged in oak, where the Premier Cru and Grand Cru start to be.  The soil is largely limestone, but there are variations within the region itself.  But, either way, the AOC decided that the wines that met the basic standard could be called Burgundy (or a more specific regionalization). 

The U.S. has decided that there are basic requirements for what constitutes bourbon.  The requirements are specific in a certain sense and also pretty liberal in others.  Since Kentucky distillers aren't consistent on a lot of those variables (grain bill, char level, ageing length, etc.), I don't see where the line is to exclude other regions from labeling their whiskeys are bourbon if there isn't an appreciable difference between the ingredients, the methodology, nor the flavor of the resulting spirit.  Yeah, the U.S. is a larger region than Burgundy, but I feel like the analogy applies.

Chris
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: triplemultiplex on September 06, 2021, 11:44:49 AM
The county where they make Jack Daniels is also dry.

They changed it in recent years so that's a little more "damp".
Quote from: The Oracle at Wiki
Despite being home to Jack Daniel's Distillery, Moore County itself had been completely dry. However, the County now allows the sale of commemorative bottles of Jack in the White Rabbit Bottle Shop and one can take part in a sampling tour at the distillery. It is also now possible to sample wine, rum, vodka and whiskey in shops where it is distilled on premises. Beer is also available in local food establishments when served with a meal.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: SP Cook on September 07, 2021, 09:17:59 AM
While the major brands of Tennessee whiskey meet the legal definition of “bourbon”, the main points of which are:

- made in the USA
- mash bill of at least 51% corn
- aged in new, charred oak barrels

Tennessee whiskey if further defined by IRS rules, USMCA, and Tennessee state law with additional requirements:

- be made in Tennessee (duh)
- go through the Lincoln County Process.

The Lincoln County Process, which Jack Daniel’s describes on the bottle as “charcoal mellowed, drop by drop” is just that.  The whiskey passes, very slowly, through charcoal (Jack Daniel’s far more slowly than George Dickel) before going into the barrel.

Thus while Tennessee whiskey is bourbon, it is usually not labeled as such, and is, in fact, a different product with an additional step used in its creation.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on March 05, 2022, 05:12:56 PM
With the pandemic, my wife and I have gone long stretches without going to the gym.  In the beginning, it's because cases are on the rise and we don't feel comfortable being around a bunch of strangers breathing hard.  But then, when cases subside, we just don't go back.  Because we're lazy.  Anyway...

Every so often lately, we've been mentioning to each other how we really want to get back to the gym, how we miss exercising.  Well, today got up over 70°F here in Wichita.  So I got our bicycles out of the shed, hosed them off, aired up the tires, adjusted the saddles.  And she and I went for a ride around town.  But the wind is strong today and, by the time we got home, we were pretty tired.  And there's nothing better after some outdoor exercise than a good cocktail.

For myself, I made a Jungle Bird:
3 parts dark rum
3 parts pineapple juice
2 parts Aperol
1 part lime juice
1 part double syrup

My wife doesn't like anything bitter, nor very sour, so I usually just make up something for her.  Here's what I made for her today:
3 oz white rum
¾ oz double syrup
½ oz triple sec
the rest of the pineapple juice from the can, probably 4 oz or thereabouts
the rest of the lime juice from the juicer, probably ½ oz or so

Each one got a ride in the cocktail shaker with ice, then poured into cheap wine glasses with lime rings on the rims.  Then I invited her out to sit with me on the front porch.

We always make sure to have a snack with drinks.  I had a spicy peanut mix and some dried mango slices.  She had Chex mix.  While we were out there, our younger two sons came home from the playground.

What a nice few minutes with my wife, I must say.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kkt on March 05, 2022, 06:03:10 PM
With the pandemic, my wife and I have gone long stretches without going to the gym.  In the beginning, it's because cases are on the rise and we don't feel comfortable being around a bunch of strangers breathing hard.  But then, when cases subside, we just don't go back.  Because we're lazy.  Anyway...

Every so often lately, we've been mentioning to each other how we really want to get back to the gym, how we miss exercising.  Well, today got up over 70°F here in Wichita.  So I got our bicycles out of the shed, hosed them off, aired up the tires, adjusted the saddles.  And she and I went for a ride around town.  But the wind is strong today and, by the time we got home, we were pretty tired.  And there's nothing better after some outdoor exercise than a good cocktail.

For myself, I made a Jungle Bird:
3 parts dark rum
3 parts pineapple juice
2 parts Aperol
1 part lime juice
1 part double syrup

My wife doesn't like anything bitter, nor very sour, so I usually just make up something for her.  Here's what I made for her today:
3 oz white rum
¾ oz double syrup
½ oz triple sec
the rest of the pineapple juice from the can, probably 4 oz or thereabouts
the rest of the lime juice from the juicer, probably ½ oz or so

Each one got a ride in the cocktail shaker with ice, then poured into cheap wine glasses with lime rings on the rims.  Then I invited her out to sit with me on the front porch.

We always make sure to have a snack with drinks.  I had a spicy peanut mix and some dried mango slices.  She had Chex mix.  While we were out there, our younger two sons came home from the playground.

What a nice few minutes with my wife, I must say.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: formulanone on March 06, 2022, 09:59:44 AM
On a couple of recent trips to Frankfort, I've noticed the black residue popping up on road signs as far away as the US 60/421/460 intersection and at the top of the hill going north on US 127.

I was wondering why this sign was darn near unreadable...

Across the street from the Wild Turkey distillery:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/1954/43401779060_a89c5d461f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/298gsPw)
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: Scott5114 on March 06, 2022, 07:10:55 PM
Isn't that kind of an environmental problem? If that black junk can accumulate on a sign, it could end up in your lungs...
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on April 06, 2022, 10:46:36 AM
Has anyone tried flavored tonic in their G&T?

I really like this one with a squeeze of lime and a dash of Peychaud's bitters:

(https://fevertree.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/thumbs/500x1200e/727c6abe1526ba6bbb2bf7a3a6874217.png)
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 06, 2022, 11:24:22 AM
Has anyone tried flavored tonic in their G&T?

I really like this one with a squeeze of lime and a dash of Peychaud's bitters:

(https://fevertree.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/thumbs/500x1200e/727c6abe1526ba6bbb2bf7a3a6874217.png)

I really like their elderflower tonic. Works well when you have a less than premium gin in covering up some of the harshness.  You don't even need much lime.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: hbelkins on April 06, 2022, 12:48:32 PM
On a couple of recent trips to Frankfort, I've noticed the black residue popping up on road signs as far away as the US 60/421/460 intersection and at the top of the hill going north on US 127.

I was wondering why this sign was darn near unreadable...

Across the street from the Wild Turkey distillery:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/1954/43401779060_a89c5d461f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/298gsPw)

This is a problem in the vicinity of a number of distilleries in Kentucky. It's especially noticeable on the signs along I-65 near the KY 245 (Clermont/Bardstown) exit, which is close to the Jim Beam distillery. It's also becoming an issue in Frankfort along US 127 and US 421. I worked next door to the Buffalo Trace distillery for six years and on humid mornings, the smell of the mash was overpowering. Since I only go there infrequently now, it's even more noticeable to me, as you tend to get used to it if you're around it every day.

I only notice the black buildup on road signs. Not on buildings or other structures.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 01:22:02 PM
Does anyone on here make a batch of syrup and then store it in the fridge for use in cocktails?  I've been considering this, rather than making a tiny bit on the stovetop each time.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 07:19:24 PM
I've tried several different gins:
  Gordon's London Dry
  Tanqueray Rangpur Lime
  Beefeater London Dry
  Bombay Sapphire London Dry
  Bluecoat American Dry

Of those, the ones that mix the best into my cocktails are Beefeater and Bombay Sapphire.  Those two don't impart any "off" flavors to the drink.  The Bombay Sapphire adds some interesting other flavors, so I think that's going to be my go-to gin from now on.  (Beefeater is basically all juniper, which is fine too.)  I find it interesting that Bombay Sapphire is also the brand I grew up seeing in the house for my dad's occasional martini.  It's also the brand my sister and her husband buy.

Bombay Sapphire has definitely become my go-to gin.  However, this time, I decided to buy a bottle of Tanqueray Nº 10 instead.  It's quite similar, in my opinion.  For someone who likes plenty of juniper and citrus (like me), it's pretty good.  Well, I haven't tried it in a cocktail yet, but it was pretty good neat.

(https://theginisin.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Tanqueray-No.-10-gin-300x573.jpg.webp)
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: triplemultiplex on May 03, 2022, 03:37:27 PM
Does anyone on here make a batch of syrup and then store it in the fridge for use in cocktails?  I've been considering this, rather than making a tiny bit on the stovetop each time.

I usually have some real maple syrup on hands for exactly this purpose.  I primarily use it to whip up an old fashioned every now and then, but for pretty much any cocktail that calls for simple syrup, you can swap in maple syrup with positive results.
(The unofficial state cocktail; Brandy Old Fashioned, sweet.)
We're one of the largest producers of maple syrup in the country up here and I personally know people who tap their own, so I always have some on hand.  So much so that when you ask about making a "batch of syrup"; my head went straight to this process of tapping sugar maples and boiling down the sap into syrup.  I like using it in cocktails that call for brown liquor.

Plus you know, pancakes and waffles. ;)
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 03:43:26 PM
I'm having a hard time imagining that a Tom Collins would be better with maple syrup than with simple syrup...
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 03, 2022, 03:50:08 PM
Does anyone on here make a batch of syrup and then store it in the fridge for use in cocktails?  I've been considering this, rather than making a tiny bit on the stovetop each time.

Sorry I missed this yesterday (been in a ton of work training).  Yep. Shelf life of a month. I use my tea kettle and boil water and dump it into a mason jar 1:1.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 03, 2022, 03:52:44 PM
I'm having a hard time imagining that a Tom Collins would be better with maple syrup than with simple syrup...

I like Demerara syrup with it. Same in my Old Fashioneds. Simple works well for light and fruity vodka drinks in general, and I tend to use Dem (as it's called in the biz) with almost everything else. Maple I'll leave pretty much for only whisk(e)y cocktails. Agave syrup instead of any straight up sucrose syrup for anything tequila/mezcal based.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 04:01:06 PM

Does anyone on here make a batch of syrup and then store it in the fridge for use in cocktails?  I've been considering this, rather than making a tiny bit on the stovetop each time.

Sorry I missed this yesterday (been in a ton of work training).  Yep. Shelf life of a month. I use my tea kettle and boil water and dump it into a mason jar 1:1.

I've been considering doing double syrup (2:1) instead, because I've read it has a much longer shelf life.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 03, 2022, 04:05:48 PM
I just always forget I made rich syrup and then my OFs are too sweet.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on May 10, 2022, 08:53:58 PM

Has anyone tried flavored tonic in their G&T?

I really like this one with a squeeze of lime and a dash of Peychaud's bitters:

(https://fevertree.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/thumbs/500x1200e/727c6abe1526ba6bbb2bf7a3a6874217.png)

I really like their elderflower tonic. Works well when you have a less than premium gin in covering up some of the harshness.  You don't even need much lime.

Oh, I forgot to tell you, I tried the elderflower tonic last night.  I do love citrus, though, so I also added plenty of lime juice.  There were about two ounces left of Bombay Sapphire in the bottle, so I started with that and then added probably one additional ounce of Tanqueray N°10—both pretty heavy on citrus, and plenty of juniper between the two, so just what I prefer.  Then some lime juice and several dashes of orange bitters.

I must say, I expected the elderflower tonic to be a lot more floral than it was.  Instead, it had quite an inoffensive flavor:  sweet and mellow.  So I was pleasantly surprised in that way.  But, perhaps for similar reasons, it left me wishing there were more flavor to hold my interest.  I'm certainly not disappointed, but I'll probably stick with the cucumber one in the future.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on June 15, 2022, 05:42:28 PM
I've never really cared for a Negroni.  I enjoy gin or red vermouth on its own, and I enjoy Campari in various cocktails, but for some reason I don't like all three mixed together like that.  But, about a week ago, I had a variation that I enjoyed quite a bit more.

a typical Negroni recipe
1 part — gin
1 part — sweet vermouth
1 part — Campari

my take on a Cornwall Negroni
8 parts — Tanqueray N° 10 gin
4 part — Punt e Mes vermouth
1 part — Campari
1 part — Aperol
a few dashes — Fee Brothers orange bitters

This was substantially less bitter than a traditional Negroni.  Because it was 57% gin instead of only 33% gin, the flavor of the gin came through much stronger, above the flavors of the other ingredients, but the other ingredients were by no means missing.  The one thing I should have thought of earlier, but didn't until I was already halfway through the cocktail, is that the same size of this drink has 17% more alcohol.  Not a huge difference, but still noticeable.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on June 15, 2022, 07:43:03 PM
I tend to like mine with Aperol instead of Campari. A little less bitter.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: kphoger on June 15, 2022, 08:25:19 PM
Next time I'm at the liquor store, I plan to try this out next:

(https://cdn.diffords.com/contrib/bws/2017/10/59db850f67645.jpg)

I'm also planning to get some "regular" vermouth (dry and sweet), rather than only having Punt e Mes in the house.
Title: Re: Liquor
Post by: JayhawkCO on June 16, 2022, 08:55:04 AM
Cynar is delicious. Who doesn't like an amaro made from artichokes. I like making black Manhattans with it.