Simple question: What towns or cities or locales have lost their charm, or just don't seem as fun or interesting as they used to be?
Orlando. I grew up.
Paris
In Indiana, Madison used to be a travel destination. The regatta is still there but isn't as big as it used to be. The town itself has become run down. An alarming number of businesses have "stars and bars" in the windows, and there were even rumors of a Klan rally.
Monticello is another place that's gone downhill. Indiana Beach is struggling to stay open and the lake properties don't have the demand they used to.
Marble Falls/Dogpatch, AR.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 12, 2022, 10:28:03 AM
Orlando. I grew up.
I'll second this, when I was a kid Orlando was awesome because of the parks. Having lived in Orlando as an adult I found the tourism incredibly annoying. I did like downtown but there wasn't really a ton in the normal parts of Orlando that made it stand out.
Nashville. It was the first place I really remembered as a kid, and so I made the most of it. I went back a few years ago and it just seemed drab. Everything was so spread out, too, and the roads were slow.
I agree with Orlando. I'd rather be near the water in Florida.
I've never been to Florida at all, but I've heard Orlando has over-eager police. Confirm or deny?
Quote from: kphoger on April 12, 2022, 11:11:43 AM
I've never been to Florida at all, but I've heard Orlando has over-eager police. Confirm or deny?
Really, that's applicable for anywhere in Florida. Especially 301 between Gainesville & Jacksonville
Quote from: kphoger on April 12, 2022, 11:11:43 AM
I've never been to Florida at all, but I've heard Orlando has over-eager police. Confirm or deny?
I didn't find them (OPD) to be any more or less aggressive than other cities I've lived in. FHP was actually pretty aggressive with traffic enforcement on some of the urban State Roads line Semoran Boulevard (FL 436).
I wasn't necessarily referring to traffic enforcement. Just policing in general.
Again, though, it was secondhand.
Gatlinburg. I haven't been in 20 years, but from what I've heard, it has really changed.
Reston, Virginia. I was never a fan of Reston's governance (mega-HOA) but it was the one place in the Washington metro area that had a rustic feel in the middle of the forest. The rest of Fairfax County suburbs were built out in the cow pastures. But nowadays, the contrast is much less noticeable. Plus, the Reston Town Center now looks and feels like a miniature Tysons Corner.
NYC - we were there about five years ago for about eight hours, flying into LaGuardia to catch Queen Mary 2 from the Brooklyn cruise terminal, and that was more than enough time.
Orlando. The theme parks are for the kids, and then there's just not much else in the area.
A lot of previously independent towns that became suburbs. Franklin, TN and Grapevine, TX come to mind.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 12, 2022, 11:34:17 AM
Gatlinburg. I haven't been in 20 years, but from what I've heard, it has really changed.
How has it changed? I was there about 15-20 years ago as well as back in the late 80s, and I remember lots and lots of traffic and commercial development then.
Seeing a lot of examples where people are comparing a place now to the way it was when they were a kid. That isn't quite and apples to apples comparison, though, since when you're a kid, your world is small and your experience with things like tourist traps is far more siloed than when you hit up those places as a grown up with years of accumulated annoyances and the ability to see them in a wider context.
I think about my own life and how it was a rare and fun treat to go somewhere like Wisconsin Dells. It was a cool place with things you couldn't do just down the road from where you lived. But I go there as an adult and I roll my eyes at all of the tackiness and ugly, fake-rustic condos. Just look at all these damn cars trying to turn left in/out of a road with four lanes and zero turn lanes!
That being said, I think there is a genuine charm that has been lost regarding the Dells with the rise of all of these indoor waterparks springing up all over the place. A waterpark used to be kind of a rare amenity; the type of thing one had to drive hours to get to. And being all outdoors, the time window when you could go to one was limited, making it even more special. Now you can find water slides at chain hotels sometimes. And they can build these giant indoor waterparks anywhere there are enough people, so it's not about a special road trip to Wisconsin Dells or New Braunfels or whatever.
The outside waterpark will still have its appeal because they can be larger and have more features, but the ubiquity of things like water slides and wave pools at indoor waterparks makes it a little less special in my mind.
There is far more charm at The Dells than the money grab that is Orlando.
Leavenworth, WA is way too overcrowded (especially in winter) and has lost some of its corny vibes that made it fun to visit. They've even moved Oktoberfest downriver to Wenatchee because the new residents complain about public drinking after moving to a town known for it.
While driving through Sterling, Alaska, on AK SR 1 on the Kenai Peninsula, Sterling looked like a "used to be" place. Soldotna, about 10 miles west, was more appealing (and more congested).
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on April 12, 2022, 10:27:25 AM
Simple question: What towns or cities or locales have lost their charm, or just don't seem as fun or interesting as they used to be?
The United States.
I will say the Los Angeles/SOCAL area in general.
The first few times I visited, beginning in the 80s, were magical (hitting all the touristy areas) it was easy and cheap to get around...
...but now, with some of the highest gas prices in the country, the out of control admission prices at tmany atteactions (Over $100 for one person just to enter a Disney property), and the overall deteriorating appearance of the area (increasing graffiti, homeless camps and barbed wire and shields around overhead BGSs to name a few), I just have no interest to spend any time there anymore.
Quote from: kevinb1994 on April 12, 2022, 12:32:22 PM
Orlando. The theme parks are for the kids, and then there's just not much else in the area.
In general I feel there's not really much for an adult to do anywhere if they don't drink, especially at night when any museums or such have closed for the day.
I don't drink. I like restaurants, but I can only eat one place at a time, and it takes a few hours before I can try the next one. I can go to a cool park, but after a little bit, what do I do now?
Quote from: thenetwork on April 12, 2022, 08:48:15 PM
I will say the Los Angeles/SOCAL area in general.
The first few times I visited, beginning in the 80s, were magical (hitting all the touristy areas) it was easy and cheap to get around...
...but now, with some of the highest gas prices in the country, the out of control admission prices at tmany atteactions (Over $100 for one person just to enter a Disney property), and the overall deteriorating appearance of the area (increasing graffiti, homeless camps and barbed wire and shields around overhead BGSs to name a few), I just have no interest to spend any time there anymore.
Los Angeles is so much better if you are into things like hiking or driving mountain roads.
Basically the entire state of California lost its charm, as have places with too many imported Californians (Oregon, Washington, Colorado).
I actually find that in terms of "charm" the Rustbelt holds up surprisingly well. Although the towns are depressing in many ways, and some of them crime and drug ridden, the overall look and feel of the place still reminds me of a better era in America that passed us by. The notable exception are the Rustbelt towns like Pittsburgh that pretend they have fixed everything by inviting in some hipsters to gentrify a few blocks and call it good. Those places lack both the charm of the Rustbelt and the real economic engine the left to boot.
Numerous locations affected by the blight of gambling also have lost their charm. Parts of PA, MT, OK, and FL come to mind. Once the casinos move in its all downhill from there.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 12, 2022, 10:20:59 PM
Basically the entire state of California lost its charm, as have places with too many imported Californians (Oregon, Washington, Colorado).
I actually find that in terms of "charm" the Rustbelt holds up surprisingly well. Although the towns are depressing in many ways, and some of them crime and drug ridden, the overall look and feel of the place still reminds me of a better era in America that passed us by.
Which era is this, now?
Quote from: Rothman on April 13, 2022, 12:18:08 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 12, 2022, 10:20:59 PM
Basically the entire state of California lost its charm, as have places with too many imported Californians (Oregon, Washington, Colorado).
I actually find that in terms of "charm" the Rustbelt holds up surprisingly well. Although the towns are depressing in many ways, and some of them crime and drug ridden, the overall look and feel of the place still reminds me of a better era in America that passed us by.
Which era is this, now?
Mainly the postwar (WWII) economic boom, but more generally the entire postbellum century that saw the US turn from a marginal power into the world's largest industrial, economic, technical, cultural, military, and political power.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 12, 2022, 10:20:59 PM
Numerous locations affected by the blight of gambling also have lost their charm. Parts of PA, MT, OK, and FL come to mind. Once the casinos move in its all downhill from there.
Joke's on you–Oklahoma never had any charm to begin with.
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on April 12, 2022, 10:27:25 AM
Simple question: What towns or cities or locales have lost their charm, or just don't seem as fun or interesting as they used to be?
A lot of places could fall into this category.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 12, 2022, 10:20:59 PM
Basically the entire state of California lost its charm, as have places with too many imported Californians (Oregon, Washington, Colorado).
I actually find that in terms of "charm" the Rustbelt holds up surprisingly well. Although the towns are depressing in many ways, and some of them crime and drug ridden, the overall look and feel of the place still reminds me of a better era in America that passed us by. The notable exception are the Rustbelt towns like Pittsburgh that pretend they have fixed everything by inviting in some hipsters to gentrify a few blocks and call it good. Those places lack both the charm of the Rustbelt and the real economic engine the left to boot.
Numerous locations affected by the blight of gambling also have lost their charm. Parts of PA, MT, OK, and FL come to mind. Once the casinos move in its all downhill from there.
So Youngstown is more charming than Breckenridge. Got it.
Chester, Pennsylvania has certainly lost much of its charm over the years. What used to be one of the Keystone State's largest and prosperous cities has now become a rough area. Once the manufacturing jobs left, half of the population left Chester.
I wasn't familiar with it back in the day, but I'm sure my wife would say Branson.
Locals especially resent the Landing having been constructed on top of what was once the downtown lakeside, exchanging a quiet fishing spot for parking garages and national-chain retail outlets. (Now don't get me wrong, they do like to go to Bass Pro Shops, but they feel a twinge of guilt whenever they do.)
My wife remembers when all you had to do for free or discounted admission to Silver Dollar City was to show your local paystub. Now it's quite a bit more difficult even for locals. (We've been fortunate enough to know the owners, so we occasionally have an inside track that way.) Silver Dollar City itself seems to have gradually been shifting from a country/redneck atmosphere to a rides-oriented atmosphere.
The shortcuts that used to work, avoiding the traffic backups on the Strip, no longer work because they're advertised as alternate routes on city-published maps. There's no longer any good way to get across town, no matter how well you know the streets like the back of your hand.
Definitely Chicago. For many years, it was the second-largest city in America, but then a lot of people left, and it just went downhill from there. The area around Wrigley Field was once a beautiful neighborhood, but the advertisements on the rooftops beyond the outfield wall ruined its vibe. Outside the Navy Pier and the Loop, there certainly isn't much to see anymore, and this is coming from someone who was born and raised there.
Quote from: Henry on April 13, 2022, 10:13:29 AM
Definitely Chicago. For many years, it was the second-largest city in America, but then a lot of people left, and it just went downhill from there. The area around Wrigley Field was once a beautiful neighborhood, but the advertisements on the rooftops beyond the outfield wall ruined its vibe. Outside the Navy Pier and the Loop, there certainly isn't much to see anymore, and this is coming from someone who was born and raised there.
Really? Chicago is probably my favorite city to visit, although I haven't set foot there since 2007. You can keep Navy Pier, but what about Ukrainian Village, or Hyde Park, or Lincoln Park, or Michigan Avenue and the Chicago River, or Logan Square, or the North Avenue beach?
And give me Andersonville for Hopleaf and Argyle for great Vietnamese food and Peking Duck.
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2022, 10:21:47 AM
Quote from: Henry on April 13, 2022, 10:13:29 AM
Definitely Chicago. For many years, it was the second-largest city in America, but then a lot of people left, and it just went downhill from there. The area around Wrigley Field was once a beautiful neighborhood, but the advertisements on the rooftops beyond the outfield wall ruined its vibe. Outside the Navy Pier and the Loop, there certainly isn't much to see anymore, and this is coming from someone who was born and raised there.
Really? Chicago is probably my favorite city to visit, although I haven't set foot there since 2007. You can keep Navy Pier, but what about Ukrainian Village, or Hyde Park, or Lincoln Park, or Michigan Avenue and the Chicago River, or Logan Square, or the North Avenue beach?
He's absolutely correct about the Disneyfication of Wrigleyville, but I have no idea what "a lot of people left, and it just went downhill from there" means. Especially since many of the people who left are awful.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2022, 08:51:38 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 12, 2022, 10:20:59 PM
Basically the entire state of California lost its charm, as have places with too many imported Californians (Oregon, Washington, Colorado).
I actually find that in terms of "charm" the Rustbelt holds up surprisingly well. Although the towns are depressing in many ways, and some of them crime and drug ridden, the overall look and feel of the place still reminds me of a better era in America that passed us by. The notable exception are the Rustbelt towns like Pittsburgh that pretend they have fixed everything by inviting in some hipsters to gentrify a few blocks and call it good. Those places lack both the charm of the Rustbelt and the real economic engine the left to boot.
Numerous locations affected by the blight of gambling also have lost their charm. Parts of PA, MT, OK, and FL come to mind. Once the casinos move in its all downhill from there.
So Youngstown is more charming than Breckenridge. Got it.
To me yes. Youngstown is depressing, but it at least reminds me of American prosperity in a better time and provides some hope for what could be if we get our act together.
Breckenridge just reminds me of hipsters and California exports ruining middle America.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 13, 2022, 10:56:52 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2022, 08:51:38 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 12, 2022, 10:20:59 PM
Basically the entire state of California lost its charm, as have places with too many imported Californians (Oregon, Washington, Colorado).
I actually find that in terms of "charm" the Rustbelt holds up surprisingly well. Although the towns are depressing in many ways, and some of them crime and drug ridden, the overall look and feel of the place still reminds me of a better era in America that passed us by. The notable exception are the Rustbelt towns like Pittsburgh that pretend they have fixed everything by inviting in some hipsters to gentrify a few blocks and call it good. Those places lack both the charm of the Rustbelt and the real economic engine the left to boot.
Numerous locations affected by the blight of gambling also have lost their charm. Parts of PA, MT, OK, and FL come to mind. Once the casinos move in its all downhill from there.
So Youngstown is more charming than Breckenridge. Got it.
To me yes. Youngstown is depressing, but it at least reminds me of American prosperity in a better time and provides some hope for what could be if we get our act together.
Breckenridge just reminds me of hipsters and California exports ruining middle America.
Or Youngstown could remind you of what happens when a town doesn't feel the need to diversify their economy and lacks the ability to change with the times.
Have you been to Breckenridge? Not sure why you think it's Hipster-ville, or Middle America for that matter.
Where are these supposed hipster Californians relocating in the Midwest?
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 13, 2022, 10:53:53 AMYeah, the usual typical red herring argument people come up with is to hyper focus on a single set of local policies that were in at most 1/3 of the states and completely ignore everything else.
(a) If you let someone who romanticizes "the good old days" talk for long enough, chances are they'll finally admit that what they like about "the good old days" is the subjugation of women and minorities to white men
(b) It is absolutely not a red herring to point out that "the good old days" weren't "good" for everyone.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 13, 2022, 10:53:53 AMMoreover, the exceptionally stupid part of the argument is that Jim Crow clearly has no relation to our other bad policies.
True, we did implement far more terrible policies in the name of anti-communism.
Quote from: Henry on April 13, 2022, 10:13:29 AM
Definitely Chicago. For many years, it was the second-largest city in America, but then a lot of people left, and it just went downhill from there. The area around Wrigley Field was once a beautiful neighborhood, but the advertisements on the rooftops beyond the outfield wall ruined its vibe. Outside the Navy Pier and the Loop, there certainly isn't much to see anymore, and this is coming from someone who was born and raised there.
I've never lived in the city itself, but I lived in Oak Park from 1999-2004 and have lived in NW IN since 2017.
Has Wrigleyville gone commercial? Yes, but the Cubs were always just as much of a tourist attraction as a local sports team.
Chicago still has the 2nd best theater district in the US, arguably the 2nd best collection of museums, an elite US university (two if you expand Chicago a bit to include Evanston).
Neighborhoods like Lincoln Park and River North have always been vibrant. Wicker Park and Ukranian Village are far better than they were 20 years ago.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2022, 11:01:26 AM
Where are these supposed hipster Californians relocating in the Midwest?
Shhhh...if I told you, then even more hipster Californians would move there...
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2022, 10:59:03 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 13, 2022, 10:56:52 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2022, 08:51:38 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 12, 2022, 10:20:59 PM
Basically the entire state of California lost its charm, as have places with too many imported Californians (Oregon, Washington, Colorado).
I actually find that in terms of "charm" the Rustbelt holds up surprisingly well. Although the towns are depressing in many ways, and some of them crime and drug ridden, the overall look and feel of the place still reminds me of a better era in America that passed us by. The notable exception are the Rustbelt towns like Pittsburgh that pretend they have fixed everything by inviting in some hipsters to gentrify a few blocks and call it good. Those places lack both the charm of the Rustbelt and the real economic engine the left to boot.
Numerous locations affected by the blight of gambling also have lost their charm. Parts of PA, MT, OK, and FL come to mind. Once the casinos move in its all downhill from there.
So Youngstown is more charming than Breckenridge. Got it.
To me yes. Youngstown is depressing, but it at least reminds me of American prosperity in a better time and provides some hope for what could be if we get our act together.
Breckenridge just reminds me of hipsters and California exports ruining middle America.
Or Youngstown could remind you of what happens when a town doesn't feel the need to diversify their economy and lacks the ability to change with the times.
Have you been to Breckenridge? Not sure why you think it's Hipster-ville, or Middle America for that matter.
No, that is not the correct reading of it.
What happened to Youngstown, and the rest of the Rustbelt, was the result of decades of bad economic, trade, fiscal, environmental, industrial, foreign, social, and tax policies that destroyed American industry and moved everything overseas. The problem was Washington, no one in Youngstown did anything wrong. They had a perfectly good economy producing goods that the country needed, and we made a Faustian bargain that screwed them and millions of other Americans over.
If your industry is making horse saddles and the motor car comes along then yes, you need to "change with the times", but if you are making steel its a very different story. The people of Youngstown should not have to "diversify" their economy into low wage service jobs and hipster downtown shops selling $7 coffee to survive. If the times are changing that way then something is wrong, in this case in Washington.
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2022, 10:59:03 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 13, 2022, 10:56:52 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2022, 08:51:38 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 12, 2022, 10:20:59 PM
Basically the entire state of California lost its charm, as have places with too many imported Californians (Oregon, Washington, Colorado).
I actually find that in terms of "charm" the Rustbelt holds up surprisingly well. Although the towns are depressing in many ways, and some of them crime and drug ridden, the overall look and feel of the place still reminds me of a better era in America that passed us by. The notable exception are the Rustbelt towns like Pittsburgh that pretend they have fixed everything by inviting in some hipsters to gentrify a few blocks and call it good. Those places lack both the charm of the Rustbelt and the real economic engine the left to boot.
Numerous locations affected by the blight of gambling also have lost their charm. Parts of PA, MT, OK, and FL come to mind. Once the casinos move in its all downhill from there.
So Youngstown is more charming than Breckenridge. Got it.
To me yes. Youngstown is depressing, but it at least reminds me of American prosperity in a better time and provides some hope for what could be if we get our act together.
Breckenridge just reminds me of hipsters and California exports ruining middle America.
Or Youngstown could remind you of what happens when a town doesn't feel the need to diversify their economy and lacks the ability to change with the times.
Have you been to Breckenridge? Not sure why you think it's Hipster-ville, or Middle America for that matter.
We went to both Breckenridge and Boulder two years ago and Boulder was way, way more hipster than Breckenridge.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2022, 11:01:26 AM
Where are these supposed hipster Californians relocating in the Midwest?
Vandalia, IL
(https://i.imgur.com/jkvL0xy.jpg)
Quote from: Life in Paradise on April 12, 2022, 12:48:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 12, 2022, 11:34:17 AM
Gatlinburg. I haven't been in 20 years, but from what I've heard, it has really changed.
How has it changed? I was there about 15-20 years ago as well as back in the late 80s, and I remember lots and lots of traffic and commercial development then.
That was true when I was a teen in the 1970s as well, but it seems like a lot of the local charm is gone. Christus Gardens was recently torn down. The motel where my wife and I frequently stayed was demolished.
Stay on the subject topic or warnings will be issued and thread will be permanently locked.
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2022, 09:57:09 AM
I wasn't familiar with it back in the day, but I'm sure my wife would say Branson.
Locals especially resent the Landing having been constructed on top of what was once the downtown lakeside, exchanging a quiet fishing spot for parking garages and national-chain retail outlets. (Now don't get me wrong, they do like to go to Bass Pro Shops, but they feel a twinge of guilt whenever they do.)
My wife remembers when all you had to do for free or discounted admission to Silver Dollar City was to show your local paystub. Now it's quite a bit more difficult even for locals. (We've been fortunate enough to know the owners, so we occasionally have an inside track that way.) Silver Dollar City itself seems to have gradually been shifting from a country/redneck atmosphere to a rides-oriented atmosphere.
The shortcuts that used to work, avoiding the traffic backups on the Strip, no longer work because they're advertised as alternate routes on city-published maps. There's no longer any good way to get across town, no matter how well you know the streets like the back of your hand.
Unless going to Silver Dollar City, riding a Duck, or watching one of the shows at Sights and Sounds Theatre, Branson really only appeals to the really old or really young nowadays. Most everything else can be found in other places without the traffic hassles. I do like to eat at Landry's every time we go, though.
Quote from: MikieTimT on April 13, 2022, 12:16:27 PM
riding a Duck
Huh. I didn't realize till now that they're bringing that back this season. It's been nearly four years since that freak tragic accident.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 12, 2022, 10:20:59 PM
Basically the entire state of California lost its charm, as have places with too many imported Californians (Oregon, Washington, Colorado).
I actually find that in terms of "charm" the Rustbelt holds up surprisingly well. Although the towns are depressing in many ways, and some of them crime and drug ridden, the overall look and feel of the place still reminds me of a better era in America that passed us by. The notable exception are the Rustbelt towns like Pittsburgh that pretend they have fixed everything by inviting in some hipsters to gentrify a few blocks and call it good. Those places lack both the charm of the Rustbelt and the real economic engine the left to boot.
Numerous locations affected by the blight of gambling also have lost their charm. Parts of PA, MT, OK, and FL come to mind. Once the casinos move in its all downhill from there.
I would humbly submit for your consideration that the towns of Lead and Deadwood in South Dakota are much more pleasant places for both locals and tourists under the regime of gaming than when Homestake Mining and its open-pit mining competitors overlorded both communities. The 1980s were full of decline and rot on the Main streets of both communities.
Quote from: MikieTimT on April 13, 2022, 12:16:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2022, 09:57:09 AM
I wasn't familiar with it back in the day, but I'm sure my wife would say Branson.
Locals especially resent the Landing having been constructed on top of what was once the downtown lakeside, exchanging a quiet fishing spot for parking garages and national-chain retail outlets. (Now don't get me wrong, they do like to go to Bass Pro Shops, but they feel a twinge of guilt whenever they do.)
My wife remembers when all you had to do for free or discounted admission to Silver Dollar City was to show your local paystub. Now it's quite a bit more difficult even for locals. (We've been fortunate enough to know the owners, so we occasionally have an inside track that way.) Silver Dollar City itself seems to have gradually been shifting from a country/redneck atmosphere to a rides-oriented atmosphere.
The shortcuts that used to work, avoiding the traffic backups on the Strip, no longer work because they're advertised as alternate routes on city-published maps. There's no longer any good way to get across town, no matter how well you know the streets like the back of your hand.
Unless going to Silver Dollar City, riding a Duck, or watching one of the shows at Sights and Sounds Theatre, Branson really only appeals to the really old or really young nowadays. Most everything else can be found in other places without the traffic hassles. I do like to eat at Landry's every time we go, though.
Ever been to Lambert's? I've been to the one in Alabama and it was fun.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 13, 2022, 01:04:36 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on April 13, 2022, 12:16:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2022, 09:57:09 AM
I wasn't familiar with it back in the day, but I'm sure my wife would say Branson.
Locals especially resent the Landing having been constructed on top of what was once the downtown lakeside, exchanging a quiet fishing spot for parking garages and national-chain retail outlets. (Now don't get me wrong, they do like to go to Bass Pro Shops, but they feel a twinge of guilt whenever they do.)
My wife remembers when all you had to do for free or discounted admission to Silver Dollar City was to show your local paystub. Now it's quite a bit more difficult even for locals. (We've been fortunate enough to know the owners, so we occasionally have an inside track that way.) Silver Dollar City itself seems to have gradually been shifting from a country/redneck atmosphere to a rides-oriented atmosphere.
The shortcuts that used to work, avoiding the traffic backups on the Strip, no longer work because they're advertised as alternate routes on city-published maps. There's no longer any good way to get across town, no matter how well you know the streets like the back of your hand.
Unless going to Silver Dollar City, riding a Duck, or watching one of the shows at Sights and Sounds Theatre, Branson really only appeals to the really old or really young nowadays. Most everything else can be found in other places without the traffic hassles. I do like to eat at Landry's every time we go, though.
Ever been to Lambert's? I've been to the one in Alabama and it was fun.
Did you get a throwed roll?
There's not even a Lambert's in Branson, AFAIK. There's one on the far south end of Springfield, down toward Ozark...
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2022, 01:11:01 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 13, 2022, 01:04:36 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on April 13, 2022, 12:16:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2022, 09:57:09 AM
I wasn't familiar with it back in the day, but I'm sure my wife would say Branson.
Locals especially resent the Landing having been constructed on top of what was once the downtown lakeside, exchanging a quiet fishing spot for parking garages and national-chain retail outlets. (Now don't get me wrong, they do like to go to Bass Pro Shops, but they feel a twinge of guilt whenever they do.)
My wife remembers when all you had to do for free or discounted admission to Silver Dollar City was to show your local paystub. Now it's quite a bit more difficult even for locals. (We've been fortunate enough to know the owners, so we occasionally have an inside track that way.) Silver Dollar City itself seems to have gradually been shifting from a country/redneck atmosphere to a rides-oriented atmosphere.
The shortcuts that used to work, avoiding the traffic backups on the Strip, no longer work because they're advertised as alternate routes on city-published maps. There's no longer any good way to get across town, no matter how well you know the streets like the back of your hand.
Unless going to Silver Dollar City, riding a Duck, or watching one of the shows at Sights and Sounds Theatre, Branson really only appeals to the really old or really young nowadays. Most everything else can be found in other places without the traffic hassles. I do like to eat at Landry's every time we go, though.
Ever been to Lambert's? I've been to the one in Alabama and it was fun.
Did you get a throwed roll?
Yep, caught it and everything.
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2022, 01:17:11 PM
There's not even a Lambert's in Branson, AFAIK. There's one on the far south end of Springfield, down toward Ozark...
Yeah, it bills itself as "halfway between Branson and Ozark," and my parents stopped there on the way to (or from) Branson.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 13, 2022, 01:43:19 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2022, 01:17:11 PM
There's not even a Lambert's in Branson, AFAIK. There's one on the far south end of Springfield, down toward Ozark...
Yeah, it bills itself as "halfway between Branson and Ozark," and my parents stopped there on the way to (or from) Branson.
:eyebrow: It isn't. It's north of Ozark.
Virginia Beach. So much traffic. So much development.
Quote from: kevinb1994 on April 12, 2022, 12:32:22 PM
Orlando. The theme parks are for the kids, and then there's just not much else in the area.
What I often find is that Downtown Orlando south of FL 50 and west of the SunRail Line looks really skeevy.
Louisville Kentucky.
It's no longer an exciting place to visit compared to the 1990s.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on April 13, 2022, 05:33:13 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on April 12, 2022, 12:32:22 PM
Orlando. The theme parks are for the kids, and then there's just not much else in the area.
What I often find is that Downtown Orlando south of FL 50 and west of the SunRail Line looks really skeevy.
Lake Eola has its moments of niceness, especially on weekends. Orange Avenue (old US 17-92) is very industrial south of downtown and OBT is probably the retreaded tire capital of the world.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2022, 07:08:42 PM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on April 13, 2022, 05:33:13 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on April 12, 2022, 12:32:22 PM
Orlando. The theme parks are for the kids, and then there's just not much else in the area.
What I often find is that Downtown Orlando south of FL 50 and west of the SunRail Line looks really skeevy.
Lake Eola has its moments of niceness, especially on weekends. Orange Avenue (old US 17-92) is very industrial south of downtown and OBT is probably the retreaded tire capital of the world.
I did stay off Orange Ave. once at a then-new hotel. It was right near the train station (Amtrak) and you could hear the trains roll by, with the crossing signals working.
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2022, 09:57:09 AM
I wasn't familiar with it back in the day, but I'm sure my wife would say Branson.
Locals especially resent the Landing having been constructed on top of what was once the downtown lakeside, exchanging a quiet fishing spot for parking garages and national-chain retail outlets. (Now don't get me wrong, they do like to go to Bass Pro Shops, but they feel a twinge of guilt whenever they do.)
At least they still have Rockaway Beach as a quiet fishing spot...
Rockaway Beach is a great example of a town losing its charm. In the 1940s and 50s, Rockaway Beach was a bigger deal than Branson in terms of tourism. The warm waters of Lake Taneycomo was the town's main draw. This all changed when said warm waters became frigid, as a result of the construction of Table Rock Dam. The tourists left Rockaway, in favor of the warmer waters of the new Table Rock Lake west of Branson.
If casino developers got their way, Rockaway Beach would have been reborn in a way... at a cost. Even so, this would require Missouri to amend its constitution, for casinos are only allowed on the banks of the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers. If the White River was added to the list, casino construction would be legal in Branson (on the state level).
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 12, 2022, 08:59:25 PMIn general I feel there's not really much for an adult to do anywhere if they don't drink, especially at night when any museums or such have closed for the day.
I don't drink. I like restaurants, but I can only eat one place at a time, and it takes a few hours before I can try the next one. I can go to a cool park, but after a little bit, what do I do now?
I'm not a teetotaller, but I'm also not a barfly, clubber, or theatre-goer, and when I visit a large metro area, I often find I have to do some things outside regular business hours in order to see and do everything that interests me.
* Los Angeles: I visited Griffith Park, Angels Flight, Union Station, the Second Street and Third Street tunnels, and Parker Center (old LAPD HQ, now demolished) at night before I caught the subway back to South LA to pick up my car for a freeway cruise.
* Dallas: I went to the Meadows Museum on the SMU campus during late-evening opening hours.
* Houston: I visited the main campus of the Houston Museum of Fine Arts during late-evening opening hours and, on my way back to my parked car, took pictures of the light show along the bridges over US 59/I-69.
* San Antonio: A fair amount of my exploration of the Riverwalk took place outside business hours, including after dark.
* St. Louis: I explored Forest Park and the Washington University campus in the early evening, after museums had closed.
* Minneapolis-St. Paul: I ended up seeing the Mall of America in the evening on a Sunday since the Minneapolis Institute of Art had the tighter opening hours.
I think the key is to cultivate broad interests and to be comfortable on one's own, even if this means being out on the streets alone after dark. Especially in alpha world cities like NYC, Chicago, and Los Angeles, I often feel I'm squeezing my sleeping time more than I'd like.
Some parts of Montreal had lost their charm like Plateau Mont-Royal while other parts like NDG (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce) seem to be better. I remember the time when Laval was a blend of farmland and suburbs parts who was former villages, towns amalgated in 1965 but there was less farmland than before.
To think then Lachute and St-Jérôme looked more far away from Montreal and they morphed into exburbs.
Btw, that reminds me of a thread I saw once on Skyscraperpage forums about neighborhoods you wouldn't recognize. https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=245761 One example of a street who seem to have lost of his charm to my eyes. https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9184567&postcount=64
Another example on Laurier Blvd in Quebec City, the nice cottages and bungalows shown in 2012 are replaced with that building.
https://goo.gl/maps/uX9agr8nzwwAxReQA
https://goo.gl/maps/3jeYWejwaGTLuWgYA
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2022, 11:01:26 AM
Where are these supposed hipster Californians relocating in the Midwest?
https://www.sacog.org/post/sacramento-region-grows-while-state-loses-population-overall
https://www.capradio.org/articles/2021/08/13/sacramento-region-california-show-increased-diversity-in-2020-census-results/
https://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2021/05/20/data-dive-local-population-grows-despite-state.html
Good point yes there are parts of California losing population because of other states starting to attract tech jobs like North Carolina and Texas or music and movie productions associated with Los Angeles moving to Nashville and Atlanta on recent years.
Quote from: bing101 on April 14, 2022, 01:11:30 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2022, 11:01:26 AM
Where are these supposed hipster Californians relocating in the Midwest?
https://www.sacog.org/post/sacramento-region-grows-while-state-loses-population-overall
https://www.capradio.org/articles/2021/08/13/sacramento-region-california-show-increased-diversity-in-2020-census-results/
https://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2021/05/20/data-dive-local-population-grows-despite-state.html
Good point yes there are parts of California losing population because of other states starting to attract tech jobs like North Carolina and Texas or music and movie productions associated with Los Angeles moving to Nashville and Atlanta on recent years.
The inferred point that I was trying to make was two fold. Most of the people leaving California are going to places like Phoenix, Boise and Texas. The vast majority of those relocating aren't exactly the "hipster" types that the likes of Mr. Barb Wire seems to think comprises 100% of the populace of California. I suspect that this is also a primary driver why a lot of intrastate migration in California is to the Central Valley cities. But whatever, Mr. Barb Wire probably assumes I'm also by default the hipster stereotype he has in mind also as being the only inhabitant of California.
Then again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing? I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AM
Quote from: bing101 on April 14, 2022, 01:11:30 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2022, 11:01:26 AM
Where are these supposed hipster Californians relocating in the Midwest?
https://www.sacog.org/post/sacramento-region-grows-while-state-loses-population-overall
https://www.capradio.org/articles/2021/08/13/sacramento-region-california-show-increased-diversity-in-2020-census-results/
https://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2021/05/20/data-dive-local-population-grows-despite-state.html
Good point yes there are parts of California losing population because of other states starting to attract tech jobs like North Carolina and Texas or music and movie productions associated with Los Angeles moving to Nashville and Atlanta on recent years.
The inferred point that I was trying to make was two fold. Most of the people leaving California are going to places like Phoenix, Boise and Texas. The vast majority of those relocating aren't exactly the "hipster" types that the likes of Mr. Barb Wire seems to think comprises 100% of the populace of California. I suspect that this is also a primary driver why a lot of intrastate migration in California is to the Central Valley cities. But whatever, Mr. Barb Wire probably assumes I'm also by default the hipster stereotype he has in mind also as being the only inhabitant of California.
Then again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing? I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
There is a major self selection bias at play though. Californians that go to Texas or Boise tend to be fed up with how badly run the state is and are seeking the opposite.
Californians that go to Portland or Seattle are the ones that want to live in a slightly more scenic version of the same place they left and tend to make it resemble California.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AM
Quote from: bing101 on April 14, 2022, 01:11:30 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2022, 11:01:26 AM
Where are these supposed hipster Californians relocating in the Midwest?
https://www.sacog.org/post/sacramento-region-grows-while-state-loses-population-overall
https://www.capradio.org/articles/2021/08/13/sacramento-region-california-show-increased-diversity-in-2020-census-results/
https://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2021/05/20/data-dive-local-population-grows-despite-state.html
Good point yes there are parts of California losing population because of other states starting to attract tech jobs like North Carolina and Texas or music and movie productions associated with Los Angeles moving to Nashville and Atlanta on recent years.
The inferred point that I was trying to make was two fold. Most of the people leaving California are going to places like Phoenix, Boise and Texas. The vast majority of those relocating aren't exactly the "hipster" types that the likes of Mr. Barb Wire seems to think comprises 100% of the populace of California. I suspect that this is also a primary driver why a lot of intrastate migration in California is to the Central Valley cities. But whatever, Mr. Barb Wire probably assumes I'm also by default the hipster stereotype he has in mind also as being the only inhabitant of California.
Then again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing? I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
I was in Detroit yesterday and rode around for awhile. I was downtown and on the west side not much of the east side and thought it really doesn't have the charm it did in the 90's but with Midtown and New Center starting to redevelop now it seems more interesting to be there.
^^^
I figured out for myself in high school that the 2.3 kids, a white picket fence and a dog life style in suburbs of Detroit wasn't for me. I ended up leaving for Phoenix during the summer of 2001. Phoenix was great when the metro area had about 3 million residents. At the time the metro area was affordable and a really nice place to live, trouble was a lot of people also figured that out. When it tipped over 4 million and you had to commute 20-30 miles to get to work from somewhere affordable it began to suck, or "lose its charm." I ended up leaving for Florida and gave that a try from 2013-2016. Florida was great financially, but was a incredibly place (see my subjective comments above on Orlando) to live. I ended up coming back west during 2016 to the Central Valley in California. So far I'm happy where I'm at, but people are figuring out Fresno is affordable.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 14, 2022, 01:38:52 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AM
Quote from: bing101 on April 14, 2022, 01:11:30 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2022, 11:01:26 AM
Where are these supposed hipster Californians relocating in the Midwest?
https://www.sacog.org/post/sacramento-region-grows-while-state-loses-population-overall
https://www.capradio.org/articles/2021/08/13/sacramento-region-california-show-increased-diversity-in-2020-census-results/
https://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2021/05/20/data-dive-local-population-grows-despite-state.html
Good point yes there are parts of California losing population because of other states starting to attract tech jobs like North Carolina and Texas or music and movie productions associated with Los Angeles moving to Nashville and Atlanta on recent years.
The inferred point that I was trying to make was two fold. Most of the people leaving California are going to places like Phoenix, Boise and Texas. The vast majority of those relocating aren't exactly the "hipster" types that the likes of Mr. Barb Wire seems to think comprises 100% of the populace of California. I suspect that this is also a primary driver why a lot of intrastate migration in California is to the Central Valley cities. But whatever, Mr. Barb Wire probably assumes I'm also by default the hipster stereotype he has in mind also as being the only inhabitant of California.
Then again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing? I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
There is a major self selection bias at play though. Californians that go to Texas or Boise tend to be fed up with how badly run the state is and are seeking the opposite.
Californians that go to Portland or Seattle are the ones that want to live in a slightly more scenic version of the same place they left and tend to make it resemble California.
But where oh where are the hipster variety that is soiling the Midwest as you so eloquently say? Also, where is this the data on this mass exodus of Californians to places like Seattle and Portland? All the same, why would it be odd for someone to relocate to an area more in line with their personal mode of life or as you say "self selection bias?"
Quote from: ozarkman417 on April 13, 2022, 08:21:48 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2022, 09:57:09 AM
I wasn't familiar with it back in the day, but I'm sure my wife would say Branson.
Locals especially resent the Landing having been constructed on top of what was once the downtown lakeside, exchanging a quiet fishing spot for parking garages and national-chain retail outlets. (Now don't get me wrong, they do like to go to Bass Pro Shops, but they feel a twinge of guilt whenever they do.)
At least they still have Rockaway Beach as a quiet fishing spot...
Rockaway Beach is a great example of a town losing its charm. In the 1940s and 50s, Rockaway Beach was a bigger deal than Branson in terms of tourism. The warm waters of Lake Taneycomo was the town's main draw. This all changed when said warm waters became frigid, as a result of the construction of Table Rock Dam. The tourists left Rockaway, in favor of the warmer waters of the new Table Rock Lake west of Branson.
If casino developers got their way, Rockaway Beach would have been reborn in a way... at a cost. Even so, this would require Missouri to amend its constitution, for casinos are only allowed on the banks of the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers. If the White River was added to the list, casino construction would be legal in Branson (on the state level).
I stayed in Rockaway Beach for the first time a few Christmases ago, in a cabin down by the lake (one advantage of having a mother-in-law who has spent nearly her entire working life in the service industry in the Branson area is that it's fairly easy to get an inside lodging hook-up). While I wouldn't necessarily call it "charming", I did enjoy my time there. Pizza Cellar still seems to be a popular old-style joint full of locals chatting it up and pounding back a few.
But the whole area in and around Branson is just this really disorienting combination of tourists, rednecks, churchgoers, meth heads, and the not-just-occasional combination thereof.
I've never been to Branson. Closest I've come was when my vehicle broke down at the US 65/US 160 interchange back in 2013 when I was trying to collect counties and pick up mileage on US 160 on my way to the Wichita meet.
The consensus around these parts was just as Branson got going with its various shows, Pigeon Forge took over and attracted all the major things that had once drawn people to Branson.
Quote from: XamotCGC on April 13, 2022, 06:56:15 PM
Louisville Kentucky.
It's no longer an exciting place to visit compared to the 1990s.
When did that open sewer of a city ever have charm?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 13, 2022, 11:01:26 AM
Where are these supposed hipster Californians relocating in the Midwest?
I would say Minneapolis is a choice but definitely not the first choice for hipster relocation because of its climate, both meteorologically and politically. The PNW rain might get grating, but you don't have to shovel that. And politically while the metro is as hipster-favorable as anywhere, the state level is enough less so to keep important hipster priorities like legal weed out of play for the moment.
Quote from: kphoger on April 13, 2022, 10:21:47 AM
Quote from: Henry on April 13, 2022, 10:13:29 AM
Definitely Chicago. For many years, it was the second-largest city in America, but then a lot of people left, and it just went downhill from there. The area around Wrigley Field was once a beautiful neighborhood, but the advertisements on the rooftops beyond the outfield wall ruined its vibe. Outside the Navy Pier and the Loop, there certainly isn't much to see anymore, and this is coming from someone who was born and raised there.
Really? Chicago is probably my favorite city to visit, although I haven't set foot there since 2007. You can keep Navy Pier, but what about Ukrainian Village, or Hyde Park, or Lincoln Park, or Michigan Avenue and the Chicago River, or Logan Square, or the North Avenue beach?
-Ukrainian Village is seeing a big uptick, especially with recent world events
-Hyde Park is the same
-Lincoln Park is the same, albeit more expensive (you could say that for the whole city)
-Michigan Ave took a big hit between the pandemic and the 2020 civil unrest. It's currently in a flux and not sure if it wants to stay high end retail or start mixing things up. It's losing the Mag Mile charm pretty quickly.
-Chicago River has been a bright spot, especially after the new renovated sections between LSD/Columbus and Michigan to Wolf Point.
-Logan Square is the same
-North Ave Beach is the same
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AMThen again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing? I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
Compared to what? I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like. Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast. I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive. That leaves Oregon and Washington State and...what do they offer that Illinois doesn't?
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 14, 2022, 10:59:19 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AMThen again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing? I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
Compared to what? I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like. Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast. I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive. That leaves Oregon and Washington State and...what do they offer that Illinois doesn't?
governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like.
This I find an odd objection. Do you object to the Federal Government limiting what laws states can enact then? Because there is a lot of that going on.
Also, a patchwork of different laws where every little burg or town becomes its own fiefdom is both inconvenient and ripe for considerable abuse no matter what side of the fence you are on.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 14, 2022, 11:04:37 AMDo you object to the Federal Government limiting what laws states can enact then?
No, because that isn't actually happening.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 14, 2022, 11:04:37 AMBecause there is a lot of that going on.
No, there isn't.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 14, 2022, 11:04:37 AMAlso, a patchwork of different laws where every little burg or town becomes its own fiefdom is both inconvenient and ripe for considerable abuse no matter what side of the fence you are on.
So...we need a stronger federal government, because a a patchwork of different laws where every little state becomes its own fiefdom is both inconvenient and ripe for considerable abuse no matter what side of the fence you are on?
Let's not get the thread locked, kids.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 14, 2022, 10:59:19 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AMThen again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing? I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
Compared to what? I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like. Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast. I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive. That leaves Oregon and Washington State and...what do they offer that Illinois doesn't?
A main driver for me leaving the Midwest was the collapsing economic base, not so much people politics. I'm a pretty middle of the road person with politics. Generally political ideologies don't really sway where I move over things like economic and recreational opportunities. In Michigan during the late 1990s/early 2000s in particular, what future was there for someone getting out of high school? I didn't see one, so I left. Given the state of life I see a lot of my classmates in, I don't see what value the area has for me personally even now. My immediate family mostly left in the years after I did, so there isn't even really a family reason to go back anymore.
But then again, that's just my subjective measure versus yours. It would be fair to say the primary reason I'm back on the West Coast to begin with was due to how bored I was in Florida. I suspect there will come a time in the future where I'll want to move somewhere else also. If I had to bet I suspect population growth around Fresno and the Central Valley in the next two decades will be a motivating factor to move elsewhere. I've found my tolerance for large population centers on a downhill slide since I lived in Chicago. I guess you could say, for me the people there are the less "charm" a place has.
But to answer your question the outdoor recreational opportunities in Oregon and Washington are far more diverse than Illinois. To me that matters, to others it might not.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 14, 2022, 10:59:19 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AMThen again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing? I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
Compared to what? I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like. Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast. I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive. That leaves Oregon and Washington State and...what do they offer that Illinois doesn't?
Colorado?
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 14, 2022, 10:59:19 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AMThen again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing? I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
Compared to what? I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like. Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast. I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive. That leaves Oregon and Washington State and...what do they offer that Illinois doesn't?
That's pretty drastic judgment.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 11:25:07 AMIn Michigan during the late 1990s/early 2000s in particular, what future was there for someone getting out of high school? I didn't see one, so I left. Given the state of life I see a lot of my classmates in, I don't see what value the area has for me personally even now.
Replace "Michigan" with "Georgia" and that's been my experience. But, as you say:
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 11:25:07 AMBut then again, that's just my subjective measure versus yours.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 11:25:07 AMBut to answer your question the outdoor recreational opportunities in Oregon and Washington are far more diverse than Illinois. To me that matters, to others it might not.
Oh, yes, that's absolutely true - this is the only place I've lived where I would have to drive several hours to see something resembling a mountain, and that is very odd to me, having spent 25 years in places that were very close to the Appalachian Mountains.
Quote from: 1 on April 14, 2022, 11:28:49 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 14, 2022, 10:59:19 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AMThen again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing? I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
Compared to what? I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like. Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast. I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive. That leaves Oregon and Washington State and...what do they offer that Illinois doesn't?
Colorado?
I don't know very much about it, but you are correct that I should not have overlooked it.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 14, 2022, 11:56:25 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 11:25:07 AMIn Michigan during the late 1990s/early 2000s in particular, what future was there for someone getting out of high school? I didn't see one, so I left. Given the state of life I see a lot of my classmates in, I don't see what value the area has for me personally even now.
Replace "Michigan" with "Georgia" and that's been my experience. But, as you say:
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 11:25:07 AMBut then again, that's just my subjective measure versus yours.
I wouldn't disagree with that assessment of Georgia. For me personally I didn't see much additional value it had over for Florida for the subjective reasons I listed above.
Interestingly I did have a transfer to Charleston lined up from Florida in 2015. I had to back out of it due to a parent in Florida becoming sick which ultimately led to my California transfer in 2016. I was intrigued by the Carolinas having briefly lived in Asheville a couple summers as part of a summer job my Dad set up.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 12:01:48 PMI wouldn't disagree with that assessment of Georgia.
And I can certainly see why MI would be unappealing. But, for me, it wasn't the lack of opportunities in GA, it was the lack of opportunities that appealed to me.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 12:01:48 PMInterestingly I did have a transfer to Charleston lined up from Florida in 2015. I had to back out of it due to a parent in Florida becoming sick which ultimately led to my California transfer in 2016. I was intrigued by the Carolinas having briefly lived in Asheville a couple summers as part of a summer job my Dad set up.
Charleston and Asheville are both gorgeous towns. Until recently, I would have been onboard with living in a blue part of a red state, but, not now.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 14, 2022, 12:07:12 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 12:01:48 PMI wouldn't disagree with that assessment of Georgia.
And I can certainly see why MI would be unappealing. But, for me, it wasn't the lack of opportunities in GA, it was the lack of opportunities that appealed to me.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 12:01:48 PMInterestingly I did have a transfer to Charleston lined up from Florida in 2015. I had to back out of it due to a parent in Florida becoming sick which ultimately led to my California transfer in 2016. I was intrigued by the Carolinas having briefly lived in Asheville a couple summers as part of a summer job my Dad set up.
Charleston and Asheville are both gorgeous towns. Until recently, I would have been onboard with living in a blue part of a red state, but, not now.
Let's just say that with Florida I really underestimated how much I would miss things like having access to mountains and lengthy hikes on my days off. Work was great for me in Florida, but it really did get the point where that wasn't enough to sustain my will to live there. I kind of got lucky with the Central Valley transfer, it was a place in California that a lot of people didn't want to go. The thing that those people missed was the access all the great stuff (like four National Parks in a three hour radius) and not having to deal with the stereotypical inflated California cost of living. I asked for a moon shot increase too based off the perception that all of California was expensive and still got it.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 14, 2022, 10:59:19 AM
I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like. Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast. I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive.
But didn't the California state government trample municipalities' right to pass ordinances that require local police to detain undocumented immigrants for deportation?
Or are you only opposed to state overreach when the result favors Democratic party positions?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 12:12:59 PM
Let's just say that with Florida I really underestimated how much I would miss things like having access to mountains and lengthy hikes on my days off. Work was great for me in Florida, but it really did get the point where that wasn't enough to sustain my will to live there. I kind of got lucky with the Central Valley transfer, it was a place in California that a lot of people didn't want to go. The thing that those people missed was the access all the great stuff (like four National Parks in a three hour radius) and not having to deal with the stereotypical inflated California cost of living. I asked for a moon shot increase too based off the perception that all of California was expensive and still got it.
I really loved Kansas City, the metro area. Good cost of living, nice people, nice architecture, etc. What it didn't have was anything within 4 or 5 hours that you would want to visit. Being back in Colorado, you don't take for granted all the cool stuff that's within a 2 hour drive. Sounds like we're pretty similar.
Quote from: kphoger on April 14, 2022, 12:31:12 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 14, 2022, 10:59:19 AM
I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like. Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast. I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive.
But didn't the California state government trample municipalities' right to pass ordinances that require local police to detain undocumented immigrants for deportation?
Or are you only opposed to state overreach when the result favors Democratic party positions?
Quote from: kphoger on April 14, 2022, 11:11:14 AM
Let's not get the thread locked, kids.
ETA: I don't want to be excessively glib, but I also can't answer your questions without getting enormously political.
Fair enough. I should not have thrown that grenade.
https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/03/know-gen-z/ (https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/03/know-gen-z/)
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/)
https://www.wgu.edu/blog/who-is-gen-z-how-they-impact-workplace1906.html (https://www.wgu.edu/blog/who-is-gen-z-how-they-impact-workplace1906.html)
How much of this "Cities losing their Charm" has more to do with this society in general has to adapt to a new demographic the Gen Z demo.
Quote from: bing101 on April 15, 2022, 01:23:06 AM
https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/03/know-gen-z/ (https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/03/know-gen-z/)
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/)
https://www.wgu.edu/blog/who-is-gen-z-how-they-impact-workplace1906.html (https://www.wgu.edu/blog/who-is-gen-z-how-they-impact-workplace1906.html)How much of this "Cities losing their Charm" has more to do with this society in general has to adapt to a new demographic the Gen Z demo.
Not much - this has been going in since before Gen-Z was born.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 15, 2022, 10:43:11 AM
Quote from: bing101 on April 15, 2022, 01:23:06 AM
https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/03/know-gen-z/ (https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/03/know-gen-z/)
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/)
https://www.wgu.edu/blog/who-is-gen-z-how-they-impact-workplace1906.html (https://www.wgu.edu/blog/who-is-gen-z-how-they-impact-workplace1906.html)How much of this "Cities losing their Charm" has more to do with this society in general has to adapt to a new demographic the Gen Z demo.
Not much - this has been going in since before Gen-Z was born.
More so, it's Gen X culture the thing that really sells now? I recall when I was a kid it everything 1950s era culture that really drove mass media and a lot of tourism.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 11:56:15 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 15, 2022, 10:43:11 AM
Quote from: bing101 on April 15, 2022, 01:23:06 AM
https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/03/know-gen-z/ (https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/03/know-gen-z/)
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/)
https://www.wgu.edu/blog/who-is-gen-z-how-they-impact-workplace1906.html (https://www.wgu.edu/blog/who-is-gen-z-how-they-impact-workplace1906.html)How much of this "Cities losing their Charm" has more to do with this society in general has to adapt to a new demographic the Gen Z demo.
Not much - this has been going in since before Gen-Z was born.
More so, it's Gen X culture the thing that really sells now? I recall when I was a kid it everything 1950s era culture that really drove mass media and a lot of tourism.
I think it depends what's being sold - if it's something fortysomethings and (ugh) fiftysomethings need, chances are there's going to be a commercial for it that includes 1980s pop culture references (see, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PgTjhx1VLw)
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 15, 2022, 12:33:23 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 11:56:15 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 15, 2022, 10:43:11 AM
Quote from: bing101 on April 15, 2022, 01:23:06 AM
https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/03/know-gen-z/ (https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/03/know-gen-z/)
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/)
https://www.wgu.edu/blog/who-is-gen-z-how-they-impact-workplace1906.html (https://www.wgu.edu/blog/who-is-gen-z-how-they-impact-workplace1906.html)How much of this "Cities losing their Charm" has more to do with this society in general has to adapt to a new demographic the Gen Z demo.
Not much - this has been going in since before Gen-Z was born.
More so, it's Gen X culture the thing that really sells now? I recall when I was a kid it everything 1950s era culture that really drove mass media and a lot of tourism.
I think it depends what's being sold - if it's something fortysomethings and (ugh) fiftysomethings need, chances are there's going to be a commercial for it that includes 1980s pop culture references (see, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PgTjhx1VLw)
It seems to follow a 20-30+ year cycle. As a Gen-Xer, I recall many shows of my youth set in the 50s and 60s, e.g. Happy Days, Wonder Years, etc. it's only natural that the 80s and 90s are in focus for the nostalgia machine now.
It's whoever is in that prime demographic of "still working, but has the house paid off".
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 15, 2022, 03:48:47 PM
It's whoever is in that prime demographic of "still working, but has the house paid off".
...and don't yet think of themselves as "old".
Quote from: kphoger on April 15, 2022, 03:51:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 15, 2022, 03:48:47 PM
It's whoever is in that prime demographic of "still working, but has the house paid off".
...and don't yet think of themselves as "old".
My wife gets angry at me when I say we are old (I'm 39 and she is 38). My reasoning is largely the stage in life we are in included career stability and an almost certain path to paying off the mortgage in the near future. She doesn't like it, but I don't have the drive to bounce around to make career moves like I once did in favor of stability.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 03:54:25 PM
My wife gets angry at me when I say we are old (I'm 39 and she is 38). My reasoning is largely the stage in life we are in included career stability and an almost certain path to paying off the mortgage in the near future. She doesn't like it, but I don't have the drive to bounce around to make career moves like I once did in favor of stability.
My wife and I both turned 40 this past year.
She hates that her hair is turning grey. I think her hair looks great with grey in it. But telling her that doesn't change her opinion.
But yeah, people our age still remember their youth with fondness and without a whole lot of emotional distance between now and then. So the movies we grew up with, the things we did as kids, the media we used–we're not yet too old for that stuff to feel outmoded, and we still feel young enough to spend our money on trying to recapture a little bit of it.
Breezewood.
Seriously, how did we get four pages into this thread without anyone saying it already? So many of those businesses have closed their doors in recent years, and I doubt it's all because of the pandemic. You can't even get Taco Bell there anymore. Aside from the pandemic, I'm not really sure what the deal is. New Stanton doesn't seem to be more popular.
Pfft. Millennials, the both of you.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AM
I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
We have bountiful fresh water.
(https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/data/png/current/current_usdm.png)
^^^
Had lots of that in Florida too, never really got too into water sports. Wasn't for a lack of trying growing up.
Quote from: kphoger on April 15, 2022, 04:02:32 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 03:54:25 PM
My wife gets angry at me when I say we are old (I'm 39 and she is 38). My reasoning is largely the stage in life we are in included career stability and an almost certain path to paying off the mortgage in the near future. She doesn't like it, but I don't have the drive to bounce around to make career moves like I once did in favor of stability.
My wife and I both turned 40 this past year.
She hates that her hair is turning grey. I think her hair looks great with grey in it. But telling her that doesn't change her opinion.
But yeah, people our age still remember their youth with fondness and without a whole lot of emotional distance between now and then. So the movies we grew up with, the things we did as kids, the media we used–we're not yet too old for that stuff to feel outmoded, and we still feel young enough to spend our money on trying to recapture a little bit of it.
The fact that I'm going to see a Sonic the Hedgehog movie tonight speaks volumes to power of nostalgia. We aren't bringing kids, this is something stupid for my wife and I to enjoy because we have warm and fuzzy memories of the character.
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 04:06:14 PM
Pfft. Millennials, the both of you.
Depends, some of us adhere to the less popular social science start years for Millennials of 1982 or 1984.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 04:35:27 PM
Had lots of that in Florida too, never really got too into water sports. Wasn't for a lack of trying growing up.
Yeah, but ours doesn't have alligators. ;)
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 15, 2022, 05:07:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 04:35:27 PM
Had lots of that in Florida too, never really got too into water sports. Wasn't for a lack of trying growing up.
Yeah, but ours doesn't have alligators. ;)
Meh, they aren't too scary once you get used to them. For the most part they are incredibly lazy and really just don't want anything to do with people, even when accosted. I was highly amused at how much my wife was terrified of them when I took her to Everglades National Park. I guess she grew up in California thinking that Alligators would descend upon her in en mass as soon they spotted a fearful human.
Quote from: Ned Weasel on April 15, 2022, 04:05:47 PM
Breezewood.
Seriously, how did we get four pages into this thread without anyone saying it already? So many of those businesses have closed their doors in recent years, and I doubt it's all because of the pandemic. You can't even get Taco Bell there anymore. Aside from the pandemic, I'm not really sure what the deal is. New Stanton doesn't seem to be more popular.
Some would argue that Breezewood never had any charm, that it was a notorious overcommercialized traffic tie-up where businesses sprang up to take advantage of a captive audience forced to navigate two blocks of surface roads to continue on a major interstate highway linking the midwest to the east coast.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 15, 2022, 07:54:04 PM
Quote from: Ned Weasel on April 15, 2022, 04:05:47 PM
Breezewood.
Seriously, how did we get four pages into this thread without anyone saying it already? So many of those businesses have closed their doors in recent years, and I doubt it's all because of the pandemic. You can't even get Taco Bell there anymore. Aside from the pandemic, I'm not really sure what the deal is. New Stanton doesn't seem to be more popular.
Some would argue that Breezewood never had any charm, that it was a notorious overcommercialized traffic tie-up where businesses sprang up to take advantage of a captive audience forced to navigate two blocks of surface roads to continue on a major interstate highway linking the midwest to the east coast.
I've always found it to be charmingly charmless if that makes sense. It's basically the "so bad it's good" version of tourist trap. For whatever reason it's infamy seems to have an odd draw to it.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 04:06:14 PM
Pfft. Millennials, the both of you.
Depends, some of us adhere to the less popular social science start years for Millennials of 1982 or 1984.
So desperate to be one of the cool kids. Typical Millennials.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 15, 2022, 07:54:04 PM
Quote from: Ned Weasel on April 15, 2022, 04:05:47 PM
Breezewood.
Seriously, how did we get four pages into this thread without anyone saying it already? So many of those businesses have closed their doors in recent years, and I doubt it's all because of the pandemic. You can't even get Taco Bell there anymore. Aside from the pandemic, I'm not really sure what the deal is. New Stanton doesn't seem to be more popular.
Some would argue that Breezewood never had any charm
Was just thinking the same thing.
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 04:06:14 PM
Pfft. Millennials, the both of you.
Depends, some of us adhere to the less popular social science start years for Millennials of 1982 or 1984.
So desperate to be one of the cool kids. Typical Millennials.
So desperate not to be young anymore. One of my pet peeves people nominally older than me saying I have so many years left and I'm still young. In all odds I'm half way through my likely lifespan. My 46 year old brother does it all the time, even when I question what supposed greater wisdom he has obtained in 7 extra years of life.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 08:52:59 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 04:06:14 PM
Pfft. Millennials, the both of you.
Depends, some of us adhere to the less popular social science start years for Millennials of 1982 or 1984.
So desperate to be one of the cool kids. Typical Millennials.
So desperate not to be young anymore. One of my pet peeves people nominally older than me saying I have so many years left and I'm still young. In all odds I'm half way through my likely lifespan. My 46 year old brother does it all the time, even when I question what supposed greater wisdom he has obtained in 7 extra years of life.
Be grateful youth has been extended through ones 30s...
...or take it as the infantilization of American society that started when Boomers helicoptered the Millennials.
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 09:06:51 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 08:52:59 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 04:06:14 PM
Pfft. Millennials, the both of you.
Depends, some of us adhere to the less popular social science start years for Millennials of 1982 or 1984.
So desperate to be one of the cool kids. Typical Millennials.
So desperate not to be young anymore. One of my pet peeves people nominally older than me saying I have so many years left and I'm still young. In all odds I'm half way through my likely lifespan. My 46 year old brother does it all the time, even when I question what supposed greater wisdom he has obtained in 7 extra years of life.
Be grateful youth has been extended through ones 30s...
...or take it as the infantilization of American society that started when Boomers helicoptered the Millennials.
It is interesting to look at pictures of my father at my age, he resembled an elderly man. Me and my two siblings don't seem to have physically aged anywhere nearly as fast he did.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 09:11:49 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 09:06:51 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 08:52:59 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 04:06:14 PM
Pfft. Millennials, the both of you.
Depends, some of us adhere to the less popular social science start years for Millennials of 1982 or 1984.
So desperate to be one of the cool kids. Typical Millennials.
So desperate not to be young anymore. One of my pet peeves people nominally older than me saying I have so many years left and I'm still young. In all odds I'm half way through my likely lifespan. My 46 year old brother does it all the time, even when I question what supposed greater wisdom he has obtained in 7 extra years of life.
Be grateful youth has been extended through ones 30s...
...or take it as the infantilization of American society that started when Boomers helicoptered the Millennials.
It is interesting to look at pictures of my father at my age, he resembled an elderly man. Me and my two siblings don't seem to have physically aged anywhere nearly as fast he did.
Smoking ages you surprisingly. I'm guessing he probably smoked as most people did.
Quote from: Ned Weasel on April 15, 2022, 04:05:47 PM
Breezewood.
I believe the thread title said "charm", not "harm".
Quote from: Road Hog on April 15, 2022, 09:46:24 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 09:11:49 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 09:06:51 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 08:52:59 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 04:06:14 PM
Pfft. Millennials, the both of you.
Depends, some of us adhere to the less popular social science start years for Millennials of 1982 or 1984.
So desperate to be one of the cool kids. Typical Millennials.
So desperate not to be young anymore. One of my pet peeves people nominally older than me saying I have so many years left and I'm still young. In all odds I'm half way through my likely lifespan. My 46 year old brother does it all the time, even when I question what supposed greater wisdom he has obtained in 7 extra years of life.
Be grateful youth has been extended through ones 30s...
...or take it as the infantilization of American society that started when Boomers helicoptered the Millennials.
It is interesting to look at pictures of my father at my age, he resembled an elderly man. Me and my two siblings don't seem to have physically aged anywhere nearly as fast he did.
Smoking ages you surprisingly. I'm guessing he probably smoked as most people did.
Never smoked, only ever saw him drink half a beer too. He was completely grey by the age of 32. All and all I would say his health was even pretty decent until he gained a lot of weight in his 40s.
The really strange was that he ended up getting two types of cancer (brain and some sort of gross tumor in his chest wall) despite not really engaging in the typical vices of the day. My Mom lived a decade past my Dad, she was diagnosed with lung cancer after 48 years of heavy smoking
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 10:16:44 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on April 15, 2022, 09:46:24 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 09:11:49 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 09:06:51 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 08:52:59 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 04:06:14 PM
Pfft. Millennials, the both of you.
Depends, some of us adhere to the less popular social science start years for Millennials of 1982 or 1984.
So desperate to be one of the cool kids. Typical Millennials.
So desperate not to be young anymore. One of my pet peeves people nominally older than me saying I have so many years left and I'm still young. In all odds I'm half way through my likely lifespan. My 46 year old brother does it all the time, even when I question what supposed greater wisdom he has obtained in 7 extra years of life.
Be grateful youth has been extended through ones 30s...
...or take it as the infantilization of American society that started when Boomers helicoptered the Millennials.
It is interesting to look at pictures of my father at my age, he resembled an elderly man. Me and my two siblings don't seem to have physically aged anywhere nearly as fast he did.
Smoking ages you surprisingly. I'm guessing he probably smoked as most people did.
Never smoked, only ever saw him drink half a beer too. He was completely grey by the age of 32. All and all I would say his health was even pretty decent until he gained a lot of weight in his 40s.
The really strange was that he ended up getting two types of cancer (brain and some sort of gross tumor in his chest wall) despite not really engaging in the typical vices of the day. My Mom lived a decade past my Dad, she was diagnosed with lung cancer after 48 years of heavy smoking
Secondhand smoke is not good either, which he presumably had some exposure to after he got married.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 15, 2022, 10:43:08 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 10:16:44 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on April 15, 2022, 09:46:24 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 09:11:49 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 09:06:51 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 08:52:59 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 04:06:14 PM
Pfft. Millennials, the both of you.
Depends, some of us adhere to the less popular social science start years for Millennials of 1982 or 1984.
So desperate to be one of the cool kids. Typical Millennials.
So desperate not to be young anymore. One of my pet peeves people nominally older than me saying I have so many years left and I'm still young. In all odds I'm half way through my likely lifespan. My 46 year old brother does it all the time, even when I question what supposed greater wisdom he has obtained in 7 extra years of life.
Be grateful youth has been extended through ones 30s...
...or take it as the infantilization of American society that started when Boomers helicoptered the Millennials.
It is interesting to look at pictures of my father at my age, he resembled an elderly man. Me and my two siblings don't seem to have physically aged anywhere nearly as fast he did.
Smoking ages you surprisingly. I'm guessing he probably smoked as most people did.
Never smoked, only ever saw him drink half a beer too. He was completely grey by the age of 32. All and all I would say his health was even pretty decent until he gained a lot of weight in his 40s.
The really strange was that he ended up getting two types of cancer (brain and some sort of gross tumor in his chest wall) despite not really engaging in the typical vices of the day. My Mom lived a decade past my Dad, she was diagnosed with lung cancer after 48 years of heavy smoking
Secondhand smoke is not good either, which he presumably had some exposure to after he got married.
Usually was on business trips most of the work week. Usually I wouldn't see him until Friday evening growing up. My Mom didn't smoke in the house or car either. Can't speak for what went on in his first marriage, but his first wife wasn't a smoker.
Interesting to note, all three of Grandparents who smoked lived to the age range of 67-88. I suspect the bone cancer with the one who died at 67 was somehow smoking related.
Asbury Park is totally lost its charm. At one time it had one of the most popular boardwalk along the Jersey Shore. Its Paramount Theatre was a popular concert venue and many named acts once performed there including the Rolling Stones and Molly Hatchet. Springsteen wrote songs about the city and even dedicated his debut album to the community.
Now its just a typical city and no longer the resort it once was and its boardwalk is just about defunct.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 16, 2022, 10:35:34 AM
Asbury Park is totally lost its charm. At one time it had one of the most popular boardwalk along the Jersey Shore. Its Paramount Theatre was a popular concert venue and many named acts once performed there including the Rolling Stones and Molly Hatchet. Springsteen wrote songs about the city and even dedicated his debut album to the community.
Now its just a typical city and no longer the resort it once was and its boardwalk is just about defunct.
I don't think Asbury Park had the kind of charm that you're implying when those concerts were happening there.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 15, 2022, 04:31:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AM
I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
We have bountiful fresh water.
I've said this before on here but I think there are elements in this country (I've even gotten this impression from a couple of the usual suspects on this board) that don't want the Rust Belt to recover or be successful, and think we need to more aggressively incentivize even more people to move south and west.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 16, 2022, 11:28:10 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 15, 2022, 04:31:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AM
I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
We have bountiful fresh water.
I've said this before on here but I think there are elements in this country (I've even gotten this impression from a couple of the usual suspects on this board) that don't want the Rust Belt to recover or be successful, and think we need to more aggressively incentivize even more people to move south and west.
Speaking for myself, none of the blue collar union job prospects around Lansing were exactly exciting coming out of high school. At had some informal training with automotive mechanics but it wasn't really something I wanted to pursue as a career. The strong union presence around the entire automotive industry was also was kind of sketchy given I didn't hear a lot of good second hand experiences regarding the UAW from both my parents. If I didn't move to Phoenix with money I saved in high school to pursue a law enforcement career I would have just enlisted in the military.
What really sold me on Phoenix was all the hiking and ATV trips I spent with my half brother (who moved there in 1993) when I was in middle school and high school. He had a room he was renting for $400 dollars (a month) and offered it to me when I graduated high school. I just had to drive across the country and find a job when I got to Phoenix. Sure made getting established way easier given that I didn't have to worry about credit and having to sign a formal lease agreement for a little over a year.
Quote from: Rothman on April 16, 2022, 10:56:20 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 16, 2022, 10:35:34 AM
Asbury Park is totally lost its charm. At one time it had one of the most popular boardwalk along the Jersey Shore. Its Paramount Theatre was a popular concert venue and many named acts once performed there including the Rolling Stones and Molly Hatchet. Springsteen wrote songs about the city and even dedicated his debut album to the community.
Now its just a typical city and no longer the resort it once was and its boardwalk is just about defunct.
I don't think Asbury Park had the kind of charm that you're implying when those concerts were happening there.
It had its charm up until the Boardwalk died.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 16, 2022, 12:05:47 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 16, 2022, 10:56:20 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 16, 2022, 10:35:34 AM
Asbury Park is totally lost its charm. At one time it had one of the most popular boardwalk along the Jersey Shore. Its Paramount Theatre was a popular concert venue and many named acts once performed there including the Rolling Stones and Molly Hatchet. Springsteen wrote songs about the city and even dedicated his debut album to the community.
Now its just a typical city and no longer the resort it once was and its boardwalk is just about defunct.
I don't think Asbury Park had the kind of charm that you're implying when those concerts were happening there.
It had its charm up until the Boardwalk died.
Eh...wouldn't have called it quaint. I'll put it that way.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 16, 2022, 12:05:47 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 16, 2022, 10:56:20 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 16, 2022, 10:35:34 AM
Asbury Park is totally lost its charm. At one time it had one of the most popular boardwalk along the Jersey Shore. Its Paramount Theatre was a popular concert venue and many named acts once performed there including the Rolling Stones and Molly Hatchet. Springsteen wrote songs about the city and even dedicated his debut album to the community.
Now its just a typical city and no longer the resort it once was and its boardwalk is just about defunct.
I don't think Asbury Park had the kind of charm that you're implying when those concerts were happening there.
It had its charm up until the Boardwalk died.
The Boardwark passed away this morning peacefully in its sleep, it was 87 years old. Survived by longtime neighbor Park Place. :-D
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 16, 2022, 11:28:10 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 15, 2022, 04:31:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AM
I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
We have bountiful fresh water.
I've said this before on here but I think there are elements in this country (I've even gotten this impression from a couple of the usual suspects on this board) that don't want the Rust Belt to recover or be successful, and think we need to more aggressively incentivize even more people to move south and west.
There absolutely are. My personal rule of thumb is "don't live anywhere that was uninhabitable before the invention of air conditioning"
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 16, 2022, 12:51:57 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 16, 2022, 11:28:10 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 15, 2022, 04:31:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AM
I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
We have bountiful fresh water.
I've said this before on here but I think there are elements in this country (I've even gotten this impression from a couple of the usual suspects on this board) that don't want the Rust Belt to recover or be successful, and think we need to more aggressively incentivize even more people to move south and west.
There absolutely are. My personal rule of thumb is "don't live anywhere that was uninhabitable before the invention of air conditioning"
Interestingly my wife didn't grow with air conditioning in the Central Valley of California. She is really tolerant of hot weather and gets cold at temperatures I think are warm. It is really apparent when it's summer time and we don't run the AC or have it set up high (85-90F). It took me years in Phoenix to get comfortable in the 85-90F range. When our AC broke down in the summer last year it was a huge struggle for me to get comfortable when it was 95F-98F in the house but she was fine. To some extent there seems to be some climate acclamation at play with both of us.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 16, 2022, 12:51:57 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 16, 2022, 11:28:10 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 15, 2022, 04:31:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AM
I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
We have bountiful fresh water.
I've said this before on here but I think there are elements in this country (I've even gotten this impression from a couple of the usual suspects on this board) that don't want the Rust Belt to recover or be successful, and think we need to more aggressively incentivize even more people to move south and west.
There absolutely are. My personal rule of thumb is "don't live anywhere that was uninhabitable before the invention of air conditioning"
I for one agree, recovery of the Rustbelt and a reverse migration to the northeast would be a net positive for the country as a whole. The Northeast is easily one of the most beautiful and rich parts of the country, people are leaving for economic reasons more than anything. No one is going to Florida or Texas for the stunning natural beauty of either, they are going because they can afford to live there.
Environmentally staying put where we already were seems the best solution as well. Fewer houses to build, less use of land, etc.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 16, 2022, 12:51:57 PM
My personal rule of thumb is "don't live anywhere that was uninhabitable before the invention of air conditioning"
Meanwhile, I curse my ancestors for having migrated out of the tropical zones eons ago.
Don't live anywhere that is uninhabitable without wearing multiple layers of clothing or having central heat.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2022, 02:22:25 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 16, 2022, 12:51:57 PM
My personal rule of thumb is "don't live anywhere that was uninhabitable before the invention of air conditioning"
Meanwhile, I curse my ancestors for having migrated out of the tropical zones eons ago.
Don't live anywhere that is uninhabitable without wearing multiple layers of clothing or having central heat.
Things you don't have to worry about in places that require multiple layers of clothing or central heat:
poisonous snakes
scorpions
alligators
hurricanes
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2022, 02:22:25 PMDon't live anywhere that is uninhabitable without wearing multiple layers of clothing or having central heat.
I feel like, if I want to live in the US, I have to choose between one or the other, and I'd rather have to put on multiple layers in the winter.
If I could live in Medellin, Colombia, I wouldn't have any complaints.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2022, 02:22:25 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 16, 2022, 12:51:57 PM
My personal rule of thumb is "don't live anywhere that was uninhabitable before the invention of air conditioning"
Meanwhile, I curse my ancestors for having migrated out of the tropical zones eons ago.
Don't live anywhere that is uninhabitable without wearing multiple layers of clothing or having central heat.
You can always add more clothing, but there is a limit to how much can be removed. :)
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 16, 2022, 02:27:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2022, 02:22:25 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 16, 2022, 12:51:57 PM
My personal rule of thumb is "don't live anywhere that was uninhabitable before the invention of air conditioning"
Meanwhile, I curse my ancestors for having migrated out of the tropical zones eons ago.
Don't live anywhere that is uninhabitable without wearing multiple layers of clothing or having central heat.
Things you don't have to worry about in places that require multiple layers of clothing or central heat:
poisonous snakes
scorpions
alligators
hurricanes
Were they poisonous snakes like this?
I'm more worried about poisonous dogs, bees, deserts, bandits and places:
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 16, 2022, 02:27:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2022, 02:22:25 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 16, 2022, 12:51:57 PM
My personal rule of thumb is "don't live anywhere that was uninhabitable before the invention of air conditioning"
Meanwhile, I curse my ancestors for having migrated out of the tropical zones eons ago.
Don't live anywhere that is uninhabitable without wearing multiple layers of clothing or having central heat.
Things you don't have to worry about in places that require multiple layers of clothing or central heat:
poisonous snakes
scorpions
alligators
hurricanes
FTFY. There are both rattlesnakes and copperheads all over the Midwest and Appalachia. Plenty of hurricanes hit New England. We all saw Sandy hit New York and New Jersey. And while we didn't get hurricanes when I lived in the Midwest, we would get the leftover heavy rains coming up from the Gulf into the Midwest.
Quote from: formulanone on April 15, 2022, 09:52:43 PM
Quote from: Ned Weasel on April 15, 2022, 04:05:47 PM
Breezewood.
I believe the thread title said "charm", not "harm".
Har de har har.
The charm was the dazzling array of roadside businesses in a relatively short stretch. The corporate logos that are leitmotifs of the American landscape, rose in a crescendo to the moment of relative climax that was the Breezewood strip. Fortunately, some of the classic-style motels can still be found standing and operating, but, as a whole, the (in)famous highway junction of commercial stimulation has only a fraction of the potency it held in its heyday.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2022, 02:22:25 PM
Don't live anywhere that is uninhabitable without wearing multiple layers of clothing or having central heat.
Why hasn't science come up with a cure for humans' relative hairlessness, and allowed us to grow thick, warm, insulating fur, like a wolverine? Places like Alaska, or even Pennsylvania on Groundhog Day, would be much more charming if I could be a charming, thick-furred manimal whilst visiting them.
I lived in Sacramento, CA for almost 41 years of my life, and for the last 25 years, my attitude was "if I lost my job, I would either get another one in the area or move out of state". If it weren't for the Sacramento Kings and the associated arena, most major shows would pass Sacramento by entirely. Sacramento "International" Airport really only serves Vancouver, BC in Canada and five cities in Mexico, plus mainly west coast cities (https://markholtz.info/flightsfromsmf). Only about 11 cities west of Salt Lake City have non-stops to Sacramento. Downtown Sacramento seems to be stuck in 1940s-1950s, with the more modern areas being Elk Grove, North Natomas, and Roseville. And, yes, there is a segment of the population which "supercommutes" to the SF Bay Area.
While brings up another city that lost it's charm... San Francisco. Several decades ago, it would have been considered one of the jewels of the west. Now, it's a rarely-cleaned toilet. Even conventions and conferences have pulled up stakes and moved elsewhere. Even the San Francisco 49ers moved south to Santa Clara/San Jose to Levi's Stadium, and even that "modern stadium" that is only eight years old is considered mediocre at best, with some places ranking it as one of the ten WORST NFL stadiums currently in the NFL especially with the lack of shade in the summertime. The title of worst NFL stadium used to held by Oakland "Ringcentral" Coliseum until the Raiders moved to Las Vegas, and is currently the worst MLB stadium. And, do you really want to walk through Oakland?
To be quite honest, the entire state of California has lost it's charm, and I can point to why. The Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA Metro Area has a estimated combined population of 13,211,027 people, or 33.6% of the population of California. Only the states of Texas (28,635,442), Florida (21,216,924), and New York (19,514,849) have more people than this area. The San Francisco-Oakland-Berkeley, CA Metro Area has a estimated combined population of 4,709,220 people (between $24 Alabama and #25-Louisiana), or 12.0% of the population of California. Combine that was Los Angeles, and we have a population of 17,946,602, or 45.5% of California's total population. Care to guess how many congressional representatives whose districts are partially or entirely within Los Angeles county? Hint: It's the same number of representatives as the entire states of Pennsylvania and Illinois separately. Thus, the decisions made to benefit those two areas has adverse effects on the rest of the state, and has resulted in a declining quality of life and the nations highest gas prices... higher than even Hawaii. Sure, the state has some of the best weather and scenery, but how can you enjoy it when you are working all the time to afford it?
Another city that has lost it's charm is the "biggest little city" of Reno, NV. Once upon a time, Reno, and not Las Vegas, was considered the Nevada's gambling destination. Now, beyond gaming and using it as a launch point to visit Lake Tahoe, it is essentially dullsville.
At least DFW is a great place to move it and is a growing area, however, some of the "charm" has already been lost because of the rapidly increasing rental and home prices. Traffic may be a challenge, but at least Texas is making major efforts to improve traffic flow, while California, in association with the Anti-Car Alliance, keeps pushing unworkable "alternative transportation" options.
https://www.news.com.au/travel/destinations/asia/its-the-worst-island-ive-ever-been-to/news-story/73dd39015358f6df008ccc51e6f6b93d
Boracay, Philippines according to this review lost it's charm because of the area being a tacky tourist city in the country according to some of the reviewers. If this thread wants to include other places besides USA that lost it's charm then here is one of them.
https://annaeverywhere.com/boracay/
Quote from: Ned Weasel on April 16, 2022, 02:50:19 PM
Quote from: formulanone on April 15, 2022, 09:52:43 PM
Quote from: Ned Weasel on April 15, 2022, 04:05:47 PM
Breezewood.
I believe the thread title said "charm", not "harm".
Har de har har.
The charm was the dazzling array of roadside businesses in a relatively short stretch. The corporate logos that are leitmotifs of the American landscape, rose in a crescendo to the moment of relative climax that was the Breezewood strip. Fortunately, some of the classic-style motels can still be found standing and operating, but, as a whole, the (in)famous highway junction of commercial stimulation has only a fraction of the potency it held in its heyday.
And you can get those corporate monoliths just about anywhere that doesn't have logo/sign restrictions. I fail to see the "charm", but to each their own.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 14, 2022, 10:59:19 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AMThen again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing? I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
Compared to what? I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like. Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast. I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive. That leaves Oregon and Washington State and...what do they offer that Illinois doesn't?
Mountains, beaches, forests...
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 16, 2022, 12:51:57 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 16, 2022, 11:28:10 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 15, 2022, 04:31:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AM
I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
We have bountiful fresh water.
I've said this before on here but I think there are elements in this country (I've even gotten this impression from a couple of the usual suspects on this board) that don't want the Rust Belt to recover or be successful, and think we need to more aggressively incentivize even more people to move south and west.
There absolutely are. My personal rule of thumb is "don't live anywhere that was uninhabitable before the invention of air conditioning"
:-D
Quote from: Ned Weasel on April 16, 2022, 04:01:45 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2022, 02:22:25 PM
Don't live anywhere that is uninhabitable without wearing multiple layers of clothing or having central heat.
Why hasn't science come up with a cure for humans' relative hairlessness, and allowed us to grow thick, warm, insulating fur, like a wolverine? Places like Alaska, or even Pennsylvania on Groundhog Day, would be much more charming if I could be a charming, thick-furred manimal whilst visiting them.
Science has come up with a cure. We take other critter's fur. Sheep, etc.
Palo Alto, Calif. Used to have a funky college town vibe. Then silicon valley happened, the funky housing and businesses disappeared, the orchards that were left disappeared, and the place has about as much personality as a shopping mall. Even grocery stores - used to be two supermarkets, now they are gone, and all that's left is one Whole Foods.
Quote from: kkt on April 16, 2022, 05:28:53 PM
Palo Alto, Calif. Used to have a funky college town vibe. Then silicon valley happened, the funky housing and businesses disappeared, the orchards that were left disappeared, and the place has about as much personality as a shopping mall. Even grocery stores - used to be two supermarkets, now they are gone, and all that's left is one Whole Foods.
I could tell that by driving up and down 101.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2022, 07:57:02 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 15, 2022, 07:54:04 PM
Quote from: Ned Weasel on April 15, 2022, 04:05:47 PM
Breezewood.
Seriously, how did we get four pages into this thread without anyone saying it already? So many of those businesses have closed their doors in recent years, and I doubt it's all because of the pandemic. You can't even get Taco Bell there anymore. Aside from the pandemic, I'm not really sure what the deal is. New Stanton doesn't seem to be more popular.
Some would argue that Breezewood never had any charm, that it was a notorious overcommercialized traffic tie-up where businesses sprang up to take advantage of a captive audience forced to navigate two blocks of surface roads to continue on a major interstate highway linking the midwest to the east coast.
I've always found it to be charmingly charmless if that makes sense. It's basically the "so bad it's good" version of tourist trap. For whatever reason it's infamy seems to have an odd draw to it.
Those of us who live west of the Mississippi River often use "so bad it's good" to describe Wall, South Dakota:) And that town's charms are always present every time blowing snow doesn't block I-90.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2022, 02:35:53 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2022, 02:22:25 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 16, 2022, 12:51:57 PM
My personal rule of thumb is "don't live anywhere that was uninhabitable before the invention of air conditioning"
Meanwhile, I curse my ancestors for having migrated out of the tropical zones eons ago.
Don't live anywhere that is uninhabitable without wearing multiple layers of clothing or having central heat.
You can always add more clothing, but there is a limit to how much can be removed. :)
When it's -5°F and windy, by the time I've put on enough layers to stop the bitter cold from biting through me, I can no longer
do anything. My hands are worthless, with bulky gloves and liners. I can barely put anything over my shoulder, because of all the extra bulk. And, even then, I generally don't want to be doing anything anyway, because there's always some sliver of my face that's still exposed to the frigid air and ends up hurting like a headache.
On the other hand, when it's 105°F and sunny, I can strip down to a pair of shorts and a tank-top, and I'm generally just fine like that. If I get too hot, the worst that happens is that my throat gets dry (drink some water) and I sweat (so what?).
Quote from: ZLoth on April 16, 2022, 04:29:25 PM
I lived in Sacramento, CA for almost 41 years of my life, and for the last 25 years, my attitude was "if I lost my job, I would either get another one in the area or move out of state". If it weren't for the Sacramento Kings and the associated arena, most major shows would pass Sacramento by entirely. Sacramento "International" Airport really only serves Vancouver, BC in Canada and five cities in Mexico, plus mainly west coast cities (https://markholtz.info/flightsfromsmf). Only about 11 cities west of Salt Lake City have non-stops to Sacramento. Downtown Sacramento seems to be stuck in 1940s-1950s, with the more modern areas being Elk Grove, North Natomas, and Roseville. And, yes, there is a segment of the population which "supercommutes" to the SF Bay Area.
While brings up another city that lost it's charm... San Francisco. Several decades ago, it would have been considered one of the jewels of the west. Now, it's a rarely-cleaned toilet. Even conventions and conferences have pulled up stakes and moved elsewhere. Even the San Francisco 49ers moved south to Santa Clara/San Jose to Levi's Stadium, and even that "modern stadium" that is only eight years old is considered mediocre at best, with some places ranking it as one of the ten WORST NFL stadiums currently in the NFL especially with the lack of shade in the summertime. The title of worst NFL stadium used to held by Oakland "Ringcentral" Coliseum until the Raiders moved to Las Vegas, and is currently the worst MLB stadium. And, do you really want to walk through Oakland?
To be quite honest, the entire state of California has lost it's charm, and I can point to why. The Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA Metro Area has a estimated combined population of 13,211,027 people, or 33.6% of the population of California. Only the states of Texas (28,635,442), Florida (21,216,924), and New York (19,514,849) have more people than this area. The San Francisco-Oakland-Berkeley, CA Metro Area has a estimated combined population of 4,709,220 people (between $24 Alabama and #25-Louisiana), or 12.0% of the population of California. Combine that was Los Angeles, and we have a population of 17,946,602, or 45.5% of California's total population. Care to guess how many congressional representatives whose districts are partially or entirely within Los Angeles county? Hint: It's the same number of representatives as the entire states of Pennsylvania and Illinois separately. Thus, the decisions made to benefit those two areas has adverse effects on the rest of the state, and has resulted in a declining quality of life and the nations highest gas prices... higher than even Hawaii. Sure, the state has some of the best weather and scenery, but how can you enjoy it when you are working all the time to afford it?
Another city that has lost it's charm is the "biggest little city" of Reno, NV. Once upon a time, Reno, and not Las Vegas, was considered the Nevada's gambling destination. Now, beyond gaming and using it as a launch point to visit Lake Tahoe, it is essentially dullsville.
At least DFW is a great place to move it and is a growing area, however, some of the "charm" has already been lost because of the rapidly increasing rental and home prices. Traffic may be a challenge, but at least Texas is making major efforts to improve traffic flow, while California, in association with the Anti-Car Alliance, keeps pushing unworkable "alternative transportation" options.
I know Sacramento Traffic pretty well in Solano County the area next door to Sacramento we have to deal with Sacramento and Bay Area Traffic at the same time. I can see why California lost its charm because of this but at the same time because of job reasons. However I hope California reforms itself just in time to adapt to the era of Gen Z. Also I hope for the best I see this as society reforming itself to cater to a new generation in general.
I'm still trying to understand what is so appealing about Texas east of San Antonio. At least the western part of Texas tends to live up to its supposed reputation as being rural, the big cities are very gentrified at this point. People my age seem to love Austin, but to me it is just the Texas version of San Francisco.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2022, 10:38:33 PM
I'm still trying to understand what is so appealing about Texas east of San Antonio. At least the western part of Texas tends to live up to its supposed reputation as being rural, the big cities are very gentrified at this point. People my age seem to love Austin, but to me it is just the Texas version of San Francisco.
Austin is definitely nasty, but Dallas and Houston are so large they offer a wide mix like any city, but with a distinctive Texas flair.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2022, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2022, 10:38:33 PM
I'm still trying to understand what is so appealing about Texas east of San Antonio. At least the western part of Texas tends to live up to its supposed reputation as being rural, the big cities are very gentrified at this point. People my age seem to love Austin, but to me it is just the Texas version of San Francisco.
Austin is definitely nasty, but Dallas and Houston are so large they offer a wide mix like any city, but with a distinctive Texas flair.
They remind me of city life in Florida and how the urban landscape pretty much has enveloped everything worthwhile in the immediate vicinity. If I didn't like that in Florida, I don't see how those cities in eastern Texas would be for me either.
And "Texas flair" is pretty lacking in charm I've found. False bravado and a copious amount of blow hard attitude is par for the course with Texas life. I'd argue that New Mexico does a much better job at what many perceive Texas to be in reality.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2022, 10:53:29 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2022, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2022, 10:38:33 PM
I'm still trying to understand what is so appealing about Texas east of San Antonio. At least the western part of Texas tends to live up to its supposed reputation as being rural, the big cities are very gentrified at this point. People my age seem to love Austin, but to me it is just the Texas version of San Francisco.
Austin is definitely nasty, but Dallas and Houston are so large they offer a wide mix like any city, but with a distinctive Texas flair.
They remind me of city life in Florida and how the urban landscape pretty much has enveloped everything worthwhile in the immediate vicinity. If I didn't like that in Florida, I don't see how those cities in eastern Texas would be for me either.
And "Texas flair" is pretty lacking in charm I've found. False bravado and a copious amount of blow hard attitude is par for the course with Texas life. I'd argue that New Mexico does a much better job at what many perceive Texas to be in reality.
Depends a great deal on what you are looking for. If you want to live in a proper state that actually acts as a state and not an arbitrary division of property Texas is definitely it. I have never once found New Mexico to be what I perceived Texas to be, and what I perceive Texas to be is pretty much what it is.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2022, 11:16:36 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2022, 10:53:29 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2022, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2022, 10:38:33 PM
I'm still trying to understand what is so appealing about Texas east of San Antonio. At least the western part of Texas tends to live up to its supposed reputation as being rural, the big cities are very gentrified at this point. People my age seem to love Austin, but to me it is just the Texas version of San Francisco.
Austin is definitely nasty, but Dallas and Houston are so large they offer a wide mix like any city, but with a distinctive Texas flair.
They remind me of city life in Florida and how the urban landscape pretty much has enveloped everything worthwhile in the immediate vicinity. If I didn't like that in Florida, I don't see how those cities in eastern Texas would be for me either.
And "Texas flair" is pretty lacking in charm I've found. False bravado and a copious amount of blow hard attitude is par for the course with Texas life. I'd argue that New Mexico does a much better job at what many perceive Texas to be in reality.
Depends a great deal on what you are looking for. If you want to live in a proper state that actually acts as a state and not an arbitrary division of property Texas is definitely it. I have never once found New Mexico to be what I perceived Texas to be, and what I perceive Texas to be is pretty much what it is.
New Mexico is full of rural spaces, blue collar jobs and agriculture. Those are all probably things most outsiders associate as being part of the Texas experience. For the most part that is true in western Texas, but not really all that much in the urban areas that are the cats meow right not in the east.
For context, I've had a lot of exposure to life in Texas and New Mexico to draw a personal assessment from. I had New Mexico and the western half of Texas in my work area for three years. I definitely enjoyed New Mexico and El Paso more than I did or anything east of the oil regions of New Mexico/western Texas. The bulk of my work week overnight stays were eventually purposefully centered Las Cruces and Ruidoso more often than not as time went on. Usually I spent a solid 50 plus nights a year in the region, I even was offered a relocation package to Odessa/Midland.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2022, 10:53:29 PM
And "Texas flair" is pretty lacking in charm I've found. False bravado and a copious amount of blow hard attitude is par for the course with Texas life. I'd argue that New Mexico does a much better job at what many perceive Texas to be in reality.
You summed up exactly what grates on me whenever I visit Texas. I can handle it in small doses but after a long weekend I would swim across the Red River to get away from it.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 16, 2022, 11:39:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2022, 10:53:29 PM
And "Texas flair" is pretty lacking in charm I've found. False bravado and a copious amount of blow hard attitude is par for the course with Texas life. I'd argue that New Mexico does a much better job at what many perceive Texas to be in reality.
You summed up exactly what grates on me whenever I visit Texas. I can handle it in small doses but after a long weekend I would swim across the Red River to get away from it.
The best thing about El Paso is that the Texas "flair" isn't really a thing there. The culture of the city has way more in common with New Mexico and Chihuahua than it does with the rest of Texas. I'm not denying there are problems with New Mexico and places like El Paso, they are just nowhere as grating as the so called traditional Texas flair is.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2022, 11:30:59 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2022, 11:16:36 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2022, 10:53:29 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2022, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2022, 10:38:33 PM
I'm still trying to understand what is so appealing about Texas east of San Antonio. At least the western part of Texas tends to live up to its supposed reputation as being rural, the big cities are very gentrified at this point. People my age seem to love Austin, but to me it is just the Texas version of San Francisco.
Austin is definitely nasty, but Dallas and Houston are so large they offer a wide mix like any city, but with a distinctive Texas flair.
They remind me of city life in Florida and how the urban landscape pretty much has enveloped everything worthwhile in the immediate vicinity. If I didn't like that in Florida, I don't see how those cities in eastern Texas would be for me either.
And "Texas flair" is pretty lacking in charm I've found. False bravado and a copious amount of blow hard attitude is par for the course with Texas life. I'd argue that New Mexico does a much better job at what many perceive Texas to be in reality.
Depends a great deal on what you are looking for. If you want to live in a proper state that actually acts as a state and not an arbitrary division of property Texas is definitely it. I have never once found New Mexico to be what I perceived Texas to be, and what I perceive Texas to be is pretty much what it is.
New Mexico is full of rural spaces, blue collar jobs and agriculture. Those are all probably things most outsiders associate as being part of the Texas experience. For the most part that is true in western Texas, but not really all that much in the urban areas that are the cats meow right not in the east.
I had New Mexico and the western half of Texas in my work area for three years. I definitely enjoyed New Mexico and El Paso more than I did or anything east of the oil regions of New Mexico/western Texas. The bulk of my work week overnight stays were purposefully centered Las Cruces and Ruidoso more often than not as time went on. Usually I spent a solid 50 plus nights a year in the region, I even was offered a relocation package to Odessa/Midland.
There is plenty of open space in Texas, but that is not the sole thing I associate with the state. I also think of ZZ Top, Oilmen driving big Cadillac's with long horn hood ornaments, big oil fields, and big oil cities. I think of King of the Hill type suburbs, ie. the real life Arlen. Its a far broader set of impressions than you see in New Mexico.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2022, 11:53:40 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2022, 11:30:59 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2022, 11:16:36 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2022, 10:53:29 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2022, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2022, 10:38:33 PM
I'm still trying to understand what is so appealing about Texas east of San Antonio. At least the western part of Texas tends to live up to its supposed reputation as being rural, the big cities are very gentrified at this point. People my age seem to love Austin, but to me it is just the Texas version of San Francisco.
Austin is definitely nasty, but Dallas and Houston are so large they offer a wide mix like any city, but with a distinctive Texas flair.
They remind me of city life in Florida and how the urban landscape pretty much has enveloped everything worthwhile in the immediate vicinity. If I didn't like that in Florida, I don't see how those cities in eastern Texas would be for me either.
And "Texas flair" is pretty lacking in charm I've found. False bravado and a copious amount of blow hard attitude is par for the course with Texas life. I'd argue that New Mexico does a much better job at what many perceive Texas to be in reality.
Depends a great deal on what you are looking for. If you want to live in a proper state that actually acts as a state and not an arbitrary division of property Texas is definitely it. I have never once found New Mexico to be what I perceived Texas to be, and what I perceive Texas to be is pretty much what it is.
New Mexico is full of rural spaces, blue collar jobs and agriculture. Those are all probably things most outsiders associate as being part of the Texas experience. For the most part that is true in western Texas, but not really all that much in the urban areas that are the cats meow right not in the east.
I had New Mexico and the western half of Texas in my work area for three years. I definitely enjoyed New Mexico and El Paso more than I did or anything east of the oil regions of New Mexico/western Texas. The bulk of my work week overnight stays were purposefully centered Las Cruces and Ruidoso more often than not as time went on. Usually I spent a solid 50 plus nights a year in the region, I even was offered a relocation package to Odessa/Midland.
There is plenty of open space in Texas, but that is not the sole thing I associate with the state. I also think of ZZ Top, Oilmen driving big Cadillac's with long horn hood ornaments, big oil fields, and big oil cities. I think of King of the Hill type suburbs, ie. the real life Arlen. Its a far broader set of impressions than you see in New Mexico.
I never said that I didn't consider seriously a move to western Texas. I was set to take the transfer offer I described above until my corporate office yanked the promised pay bump and cut a lot of my proposed relocation bonus. The western part of Texas had a lot more attributes I was looking for than the eastern half of the state. Relocating to western Texas would have had me working in a lot areas I liked in New Mexico on travel almost every week.
I ended up leaving for a DOD job in Key West less than a year later after I declined the western Texas transfer . Within a year of that my office was relocated to Orlando and I kept Key West also. My thoughts on Orlando can be found on page 1 in this thread.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2022, 06:53:27 PMWhen it's -5°F and windy, by the time I've put on enough layers to stop the bitter cold from biting through me, I can no longer do anything. My hands are worthless, with bulky gloves and liners. I can barely put anything over my shoulder, because of all the extra bulk. And, even then, I generally don't want to be doing anything anyway, because there's always some sliver of my face that's still exposed to the frigid air and ends up hurting like a headache.
On the other hand, when it's 105°F and sunny, I can strip down to a pair of shorts and a tank-top, and I'm generally just fine like that. If I get too hot, the worst that happens is that my throat gets dry (drink some water) and I sweat (so what?).
Given a choice, I think I would still prefer -5° F, so long as I could stay in the lee of the wind. A heavy parka (rather than relying solely on light layers) increases the effectiveness of gloves, face coverings, etc. by holding in core warmth. In the extreme cold spells we've had the past couple of winters, I've been happy with parka (worn hood up), earmuffs, Peruvian shepherd's hat, scarf (wound high enough to cover nose), and gloves, though if I were dealing with Canadian or Alaskan winter, I suspect I'd be wearing a ski mask and goggles in addition.
On the other hand, there is simply no way to dress--even if you take everything off--that will guarantee survival in a wet-bulb heat wave, and that can happen at temperatures lower than 105° F.
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 17, 2022, 12:43:28 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2022, 06:53:27 PMWhen it's -5°F and windy, by the time I've put on enough layers to stop the bitter cold from biting through me, I can no longer do anything. My hands are worthless, with bulky gloves and liners. I can barely put anything over my shoulder, because of all the extra bulk. And, even then, I generally don't want to be doing anything anyway, because there's always some sliver of my face that's still exposed to the frigid air and ends up hurting like a headache.
On the other hand, when it's 105°F and sunny, I can strip down to a pair of shorts and a tank-top, and I'm generally just fine like that. If I get too hot, the worst that happens is that my throat gets dry (drink some water) and I sweat (so what?).
Given a choice, I think I would still prefer -5° F, so long as I could stay in the lee of the wind. A heavy parka (rather than relying solely on light layers) increases the effectiveness of gloves, face coverings, etc. by holding in core warmth. In the extreme cold spells we've had the past couple of winters, I've been happy with parka (worn hood up), earmuffs, Peruvian shepherd's hat, scarf (wound high enough to cover nose), and gloves, though if I were dealing with Canadian or Alaskan winter, I suspect I'd be wearing a ski mask and goggles in addition.
On the other hand, there is simply no way to dress--even if you take everything off--that will guarantee survival in a wet-bulb heat wave, and that can happen at temperatures lower than 105° F.
I find the only real deal killer about extreme cold is the difficulty in finding warm dress footwear for it. Winter boots are fine until you have to go someplace in a suit, then it seems you are stuck freezing your feet in dress shoes and thin socks.
Also clothing aside, to heat a space is very low tech and something that can be done with only the most basic gear (a wood stove + some wood) but air conditioning is comparatively complex and basically (though not technically) requires having electric power at hand. In northern climates to backup your heat with an alternate source is fairly easy, but to backup air conditioning is fairly expensive and difficult.
kphoger, you said you don't like the cold. What about this statement?
Quote from: kphoger on February 04, 2021, 05:07:33 PM
I realize full well that there's still plenty of time left before Spring, but... It hasn't dropped below 16 degrees at all this year in Wichita. If we don't have a decent cold snap, I have a feeling the bugs are going to be out in force when the weather warms up later.
Hopefully, that will come next week.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2022, 10:38:33 PM
I'm still trying to understand what is so appealing about Texas east of San Antonio. At least the western part of Texas tends to live up to its supposed reputation as being rural, the big cities are very gentrified at this point. People my age seem to love Austin, but to me it is just the Texas version of San Francisco.
Yes and also Houston and Dallas those two cities have a reputation of being compared to the Texas edition of Los Angeles and Long Beach in recent years.
Quote from: kkt on April 16, 2022, 05:11:48 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 14, 2022, 10:59:19 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2022, 01:22:17 AMThen again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing? I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?
Compared to what? I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like. Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast. I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive. That leaves Oregon and Washington State and...what do they offer that Illinois doesn't?
Mountains, beaches, forests...
Avi: Shut up and sit down, you big, bald fuck. [Doug sheepishly complies] I don't like leaving my own country Doug, and I especially don't like leaving it for anything less than warm, sandy beaches, and cocktails with little straw hats.
Doug the Head: We've got sandy beaches...
Avi: Yeah? So who the fuck wants to see 'em?
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 16, 2022, 02:27:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2022, 02:22:25 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 16, 2022, 12:51:57 PM
My personal rule of thumb is "don't live anywhere that was uninhabitable before the invention of air conditioning"
Meanwhile, I curse my ancestors for having migrated out of the tropical zones eons ago.
Don't live anywhere that is uninhabitable without wearing multiple layers of clothing or having central heat.
Things you don't have to worry about in places that require multiple layers of clothing or central heat:
poisonous venomous snakes
scorpions
alligators
hurricanes
FIFY.
And BTW, I'm pretty sure Maine has plenty of timber rattlers, if not eastern diamondbacks.
I'm going to add Myrtle Beach to the mix.
When they started to move the entertainment inland (Broadway at the Beach, the short lived Hard Rock Amusement Park,...) in the 90s and they bulldozed the Pavillion Amusement area for condo projects that never materialized, that was the end of the Myrtle Beach I knew and loved.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 17, 2022, 06:47:20 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 16, 2022, 02:27:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2022, 02:22:25 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 16, 2022, 12:51:57 PM
My personal rule of thumb is "don't live anywhere that was uninhabitable before the invention of air conditioning"
Meanwhile, I curse my ancestors for having migrated out of the tropical zones eons ago.
Don't live anywhere that is uninhabitable without wearing multiple layers of clothing or having central heat.
Things you don't have to worry about in places that require multiple layers of clothing or central heat:
poisonous venomous snakes
scorpions
alligators
hurricanes
FIFY.
And BTW, I'm pretty sure Maine has plenty of timber rattlers, if not eastern diamondbacks.
Having lived in and hiked considerably around New England for decades, I never came across a rattler or any other poisonous snake.
Just garter snakes, mostly. Saw a snake swimming in a creek once, but it was too small to be a threat.
On the other hand, my father has come across rattlers during his hikes in western states. So far, no luck for me coming across one, either.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 16, 2022, 10:53:29 PM
I'd argue that New Mexico does a much better job at what many perceive Texas to be in reality.
You just reminded me of a line from the 1994 movie
The Cowboy Way:
Quote from: The Cowboy Way
Officer Sam 'Mad Dog' Shaw – Where you guys from, Texas?
Pepper – Texas? Ain't no real cowboys from Texas, we're from New Mexico.
Quote from: 1 on April 17, 2022, 06:36:40 AM
kphoger, you said you don't like the cold. What about this statement?
Quote from: kphoger on February 04, 2021, 05:07:33 PM
I realize full well that there's still plenty of time left before Spring, but... It hasn't dropped below 16 degrees at all this year in Wichita. If we don't have a decent cold snap, I have a feeling the bugs are going to be out in force when the weather warms up later.
Hopefully, that will come next week.
If I could have my way, there would be ten months of weather in the 50s—70s. Then there would be one month of hot, dry, sunny summer weather, and one month of coldpocalypse winter weather with snow every day.
But what I've learned since I made that statement you quoted is that "a decent cold snap" really doesn't do nearly what I thought, when it comes to bugs the following spring.
Quote from: kphoger on April 18, 2022, 10:08:48 AMQuote from: 1 on April 17, 2022, 06:36:40 AMkphoger, you said you don't like the cold. What about this statement?
Quote from: kphoger on February 04, 2021, 05:07:33 PMI realize full well that there's still plenty of time left before Spring, but... It hasn't dropped below 16 degrees at all this year in Wichita. If we don't have a decent cold snap, I have a feeling the bugs are going to be out in force when the weather warms up later.
Hopefully, that will come next week.
But what I've learned since I made that statement you quoted is that "a decent cold snap" really doesn't do nearly what I thought, when it comes to bugs the following spring.
Your post from last year was made on February 4, a Thursday. Temperatures (at KICT) went below freezing at around 3 AM the following Saturday, February 6, and did not rise above it until the afternoon of Friday, February 19, a period of 13 days that fell just four days short of breaking the 1983-84 record for longest sustained spell of subfreezing weather (6 PM Tuesday, December 13, 1983 to 2 PM Sunday, January 1, 1984).
In Kansas we were prepared. In Texas they were not. As a result, it will take 10 years for us (and probably also natural gas customers in many other states) to pay off charges for the extra natural gas that had to be bought on the spot market when prices spiked by a factor of 200.
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 18, 2022, 03:46:38 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 18, 2022, 10:08:48 AM
Quote from: 1 on April 17, 2022, 06:36:40 AMkphoger, you said you don't like the cold. What about this statement?
Quote from: kphoger on February 04, 2021, 05:07:33 PMI realize full well that there's still plenty of time left before Spring, but... It hasn't dropped below 16 degrees at all this year in Wichita. If we don't have a decent cold snap, I have a feeling the bugs are going to be out in force when the weather warms up later.
Hopefully, that will come next week.
But what I've learned since I made that statement you quoted is that "a decent cold snap" really doesn't do nearly what I thought, when it comes to bugs the following spring.
Your post from last year was made on February 4, a Thursday. Temperatures (at KICT) went below freezing at around 3 AM the following Saturday, February 6, and did not rise above it until the afternoon of Friday, February 19, a period of 13 days that fell just four days short of breaking the 1983-84 record for longest sustained spell of subfreezing weather (6 PM Tuesday, December 13, 1983 to 2 PM Sunday, January 1, 1984).
In Kansas we were prepared. In Texas they were not. As a result, it will take 10 years for us (and probably also natural gas customers in many other states) to pay off charges for the extra natural gas that had to be bought on the spot market when prices spiked by a factor of 200.
Yes. But my point was that there still bugs, come warm weather. And enough people were hoping the same thing I was, that there were also plenty of people responding that the cold spell wouldn't have much effect.
Quote from: Ned Weasel on April 15, 2022, 04:05:47 PM
New Stanton doesn't seem to be more popular.
New Stanton is quite a different beast than Breezewood. Obviously, from a travel point of view, it doesn't have the "captive audience" aspect of private businesses and traffic signals for I-70 travel with the double-trumpets instead..... but I mean more in that it's in a much more populous metro area, as opposed to Breezewood kind of being in the middle of nowhere, and the closest real towns (like Everett & Bedford) aren't that big.
New Stanton also now has quite a few warehouses/shipping depots/whatever you want to call them in the vicinity as well.
That said, I don't know how much "charm" it ever really had.
Cape Cod/Islands: Thru the eyes of a kid, they're awesome places. As an adult however...
St. Louis: My grandparents live in the Central West End. They moved into the city in the mid 60's. I'm old enough to remember when the next street over would have fires almost every night when we would visit.
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 13, 2022, 11:04:53 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 13, 2022, 10:53:53 AMYeah, the usual typical red herring argument people come up with is to hyper focus on a single set of local policies that were in at most 1/3 of the states and completely ignore everything else.
(a) If you let someone who romanticizes "the good old days" talk for long enough, chances are they'll finally admit that what they like about "the good old days" is the subjugation of women and minorities to white men
(b) It is absolutely not a red herring to point out that "the good old days" weren't "good" for everyone.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 13, 2022, 10:53:53 AMMoreover, the exceptionally stupid part of the argument is that Jim Crow clearly has no relation to our other bad policies.
True, we did implement far more terrible policies in the name of anti-communism.
This coming from the Sausage King of Chicago.