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Non-Road Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 10:42:16 AM

Title: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 10:42:16 AM
Bagels.
Title: Re: __________ is overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on April 28, 2022, 10:43:40 AM
Pumpkin Spice Lattes
Title: Re: __________ is overrated.
Post by: snowc on April 28, 2022, 10:59:18 AM
iPhones.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: zachary_amaryllis on April 28, 2022, 11:17:49 AM
Satellite internet.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2022, 11:20:04 AM
Billie Eilish
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on April 28, 2022, 11:29:46 AM
The Beatles

Wawa

Whataburger
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on April 28, 2022, 11:32:56 AM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 28, 2022, 11:17:49 AM
Satellite internet.
I dont do satellite because of them being slow.
I do cable internet. Its faster.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on April 28, 2022, 11:36:43 AM
Highway Gothic road signs.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2022, 11:41:27 AM
In-N-Out
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on April 28, 2022, 11:46:02 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 28, 2022, 11:36:43 AM
Highway Gothic road signs.
Got them here. Agree with them being overrated. Also in NY.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: SP Cook on April 28, 2022, 11:49:55 AM
Roads:

- Natchez Trace Parkway (not that scenic)
- West Virginia Turnpike (Wikipedia article still has the "88 miles of miracle"  line; its an ordinary 4 lane road in the Appalachians, not special, and, in fact, the northern third is substandard)
- All "new"  interstates, 73, 74, 69, 99, etc.  (Just use the underlaying US route numbers, nothing says a US or State route cannot be of interstate quality).
- US 66 (Only famous because it worked in a song, really never this mega important highway).

Off-topic:

- Chicago.
- Jeff Ruby steakhouses.
- Fenway Park.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on April 28, 2022, 11:55:18 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 28, 2022, 11:49:55 AM
Roads:

- Natchez Trace Parkway (not that scenic)
- West Virginia Turnpike (Wikipedia article still has the "88 miles of miracle"  line; its an ordinary 4 lane road in the Appalachians, not special, and, in fact, the northern third is substandard)
- All "new"  interstates, 73, 74, 69, 99, etc.  (Just use the underlaying US route numbers, nothing says a US or State route cannot be of interstate quality).
- US 66 (Only famous because it worked in a song, really never this mega important highway).

Off-topic:

- Chicago.
- Jeff Ruby steakhouses.
- Fenway Park.
You forgot Wrigley Field - multimillion-dollar renovation and the place still smells like hot-dog-and-Old-Style farts.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on April 28, 2022, 11:55:33 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 10:42:16 AM
Bagels.

Depends where you get them from. If they're done right, they're excellent. I've even had homemade bagels a few times, and those are pretty, pretty good.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 12:00:35 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 28, 2022, 11:55:33 AM

Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 10:42:16 AM
Bagels.

Depends where you get them from. If they're done right, they're excellent. I've even had homemade bagels a few times, and those are pretty, pretty good.

They're overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on April 28, 2022, 12:02:31 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 12:00:35 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 28, 2022, 11:55:33 AM

Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 10:42:16 AM
Bagels.

Depends where you get them from. If they're done right, they're excellent. I've even had homemade bagels a few times, and those are pretty, pretty good.

They're overrated.

Depends where you get them from. If they're done right, they're excellent. I've even had homemade bagels a few times, and those are pretty, pretty good.

:fight:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on April 28, 2022, 12:04:53 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 10:42:16 AMBagels.
No, they're not.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2022, 12:12:50 PM
US Route 66 (hot take, even though it is still one of my favorite highways)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on April 28, 2022, 12:35:14 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 28, 2022, 11:49:55 AM
- US 66 (Only famous because it worked in a song, really never this mega important highway).

Don't sell its overratedness short. Route 66 is also famous because of a book, the movie based off that book, a different book, a television show, and an oil company.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on April 28, 2022, 12:47:30 PM
Significant others

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is overrated.
Post by: plain on April 28, 2022, 12:55:27 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 28, 2022, 10:59:18 AM
iPhones.

Thank yooouuuu
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jlam on April 28, 2022, 01:02:59 PM
Coffee
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: SP Cook on April 28, 2022, 01:17:45 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 28, 2022, 11:55:18 AM

You forgot Wrigley Field - multimillion-dollar renovation and the place still smells like hot-dog-and-Old-Style farts.

Everybody I talk to says the same.  I have never been, and was trying to keep it to my personal knowledge.  My list of away ballparks (I live in Reds Country) is pretty short.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: SectorZ on April 28, 2022, 01:36:54 PM
Target
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2022, 01:42:11 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 28, 2022, 12:35:14 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 28, 2022, 11:49:55 AM
- US 66 (Only famous because it worked in a song, really never this mega important highway).

Don't sell its overratedness short. Route 66 is also famous because of a book, the movie based off that book, a different book, a television show, and an oil company.

What is really maddening to me is looking through minutes the AASHTO and seeing a totally different narrative for US 66 than has been cooked up by pop culture.  Just presenting actual evidence to US 66 fans that the highway never ended at 7th and Broadway in Los Angeles was met with a bunch of backlash.  I think it was even the impetus for when I created the "Road Mandela Effect Thread."
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 28, 2022, 02:24:48 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on April 28, 2022, 01:36:54 PM
Target

It's just a cleaner, brighter Walmart. Change my mind.

My entries:
Breakfast food
Marvel Cinematic movies
Disney theme parks
Led Zeppelin
Chipotle/any fast casual Mexican-inspired food
Title: Re: __________ is overrated.
Post by: skluth on April 28, 2022, 02:27:53 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 28, 2022, 10:43:40 AM
Pumpkin Spice Lattes
FTFY
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: triplemultiplex on April 28, 2022, 03:04:11 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 28, 2022, 02:27:53 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 28, 2022, 10:43:40 AM
Pumpkin Spice Lattes
FTFY

Pumpkin pie begs to differ.  It would be just a bunch of mashed up squash without pumpkin spice.
Title: Re: __________ is overrated.
Post by: I-55 on April 28, 2022, 03:10:18 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 28, 2022, 02:27:53 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 28, 2022, 10:43:40 AM
Pumpkin Spice Lattes
FTFY

Seasonally flavored drinks in general. I can get around hot vs cold drinks in winter and summer but not delegating certain flavors to different months.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MATraveler128 on April 28, 2022, 03:55:25 PM
Fidget spinners and those rubber pop things or whatever they're called. I'm sorry, but I just don't get the hype.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Bruce on April 28, 2022, 04:07:06 PM
American football.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hotdogPi on April 28, 2022, 04:08:51 PM
Anime.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 04:14:34 PM
Two-lane roads.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 04:18:10 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 04:14:34 PM
Two-lane roads.

them's fightin words
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2022, 04:20:17 PM
Paved roads
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 04:21:01 PM
Agree or disagree:  Job security is overrated.

It seems to me that 'job security' is a classic response to a variety of annoying job-related things–especially a constant workload that seems overwhelming, but also nobody else at your work knowing how to do what you do.  I've often thought that 'job security' is small compensation for something that causes you stress.  And yet one big reasons I still work where I do and haven't looked elsewhere is that I have 'job security' here.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2022, 04:25:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 04:21:01 PM
Agree or disagree:  Job security is overrated.

It seems to me that 'job security' is a classic response to a variety of annoying job-related things–especially a constant workload that seems overwhelming, but also nobody else at your work knowing how to do what you do.  I've often thought that 'job security' is small compensation for something that causes you stress.  And yet one big reasons I still work where I do and haven't looked elsewhere is that I have 'job security' here.

Depends, considering I make an additional 7% with my benefit contributing matchings and I have a reliable pension it makes a lot of the BS I deal with worth it.  When those things didn't exist in past employment I would jump ship with far greater frequency despite being a tenured.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hotdogPi on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Facebook.
Disney World. You're paying hundreds per day for an artificial experience.
Any singer or band who started after 2000.
Starbucks.
Twilight (the book, not actual twilight).
My Little Pony.
Chick-fil-A.
Pickup trucks.
Wrestling and boxing. The former is entirely fake, and for the latter, who wants to watch people get hurt?
Four-way stops, by people outside this forum.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 04:27:22 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 04:21:01 PM
Agree or disagree:  Job security is overrated.

It seems to me that 'job security' is a classic response to a variety of annoying job-related things–especially a constant workload that seems overwhelming, but also nobody else at your work knowing how to do what you do.  I've often thought that 'job security' is small compensation for something that causes you stress.  And yet one big reasons I still work where I do and haven't looked elsewhere is that I have 'job security' here.

If you have job security, it probably means your coworkers do too–even the ones that make more work for everyone else because they're incompetent.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CoreySamson on April 28, 2022, 04:27:34 PM
- Basketball
- Cheesecake Factory
- Bacon on hamburgers
- Movies and TV shows in general
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2022, 04:35:06 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Facebook.
Disney World. You're paying hundreds per day for an artificial experience.
Any singer or band who started after 2000.
Starbucks.
Twilight (the book, not actual twilight).
My Little Pony.
Chick-fil-A.
Pickup trucks.
Wrestling and boxing. The former is entirely fake, and for the latter, who wants to watch people get hurt?
Four-way stops, by people outside this forum.

Boxing used to be pretty fantastic back in the 1980s.  I would venture a guess that a lot of people who watch sports in general find an appeal to potential injury.  It certainly was an attraction with crowds in auto racing and hockey.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 04:37:20 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Any singer or band who started after 2000.

Elderly! Elderly!!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 04:52:43 PM
Voting.

So often, "get out there and vote" is touted as the ultimate path to change society–when in fact, there are likely a couple of other paths a person could pursue instead that would have more real impact.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: zachary_amaryllis on April 28, 2022, 04:53:57 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 28, 2022, 11:32:56 AM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 28, 2022, 11:17:49 AM
Satellite internet.
I dont do satellite because of them being slow.
I do cable internet. Its faster.
the price i pay for living in the mountains
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2022, 04:55:18 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 04:52:43 PM
Voting.

So often, "get out there and vote" is touted as the ultimate path to change society–when in fact, there are likely a couple of other paths a person could pursue instead that would have more real impact.

This, almost a total waste of time except for things like ballot propositions I've found. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on April 28, 2022, 04:57:30 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on April 28, 2022, 04:27:34 PM- Bacon on hamburgers
Agreed.  Bacon and cheese and a fried egg on a hamburger, on the other hand, is heavenly.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2022, 04:59:06 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 28, 2022, 04:57:30 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on April 28, 2022, 04:27:34 PM- Bacon on hamburgers
Agreed.  Bacon and cheese and a fried egg on a hamburger, on the other hand, is heavenly.

I've spent years trying to convince my wife to no avail that eggs are a fantastic compliment on all forms of sandwiches.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on April 28, 2022, 05:14:02 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 28, 2022, 03:04:11 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 28, 2022, 02:27:53 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 28, 2022, 10:43:40 AM
Pumpkin Spice Lattes
FTFY

Pumpkin pie begs to differ.  It would be just a bunch of mashed up squash without pumpkin spice.

I've made plenty of pumpkin pies from scratch in my lifetime. Every pumpkin pie recipe I've used called for mostly cinnamon with some combo of cloves, ginger, nutmeg, and/or allspice for spices. Not one called for "pumpkin spice." Pumpkin spice does not exist in nature; it's just a marketing gimmick though I'm sure Durkee's or someone else has a premixed version in the spice aisle.

My Navy chief on Midway loved cinnamon in his coffee so we added it to the coffee in the filter basket to brew. This was the early 80s so nobody called it pumpkin spice. It was just coffee with cinnamon. It wasn't a seasonal thing.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on April 28, 2022, 05:16:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 04:52:43 PM
Voting.

So often, "get out there and vote" is touted as the ultimate path to change society–when in fact, there are likely a couple of other paths a person could pursue instead that would have more real impact.

Anybody who has ever been denied the right to vote will disagree.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2022, 05:17:48 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 28, 2022, 05:16:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 04:52:43 PM
Voting.

So often, "get out there and vote" is touted as the ultimate path to change society–when in fact, there are likely a couple of other paths a person could pursue instead that would have more real impact.

Anybody who has ever been denied the right to vote will disagree.

The Electoral College makes individual voting in Presidential Elections basically worthless.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 05:27:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 04:52:43 PM
Voting.

So often, "get out there and vote" is touted as the ultimate path to change society–when in fact, there are likely a couple of other paths a person could pursue instead that would have more real impact.

Eh, it sort of depends on where you live. Oklahoma has batshit insane politics, but also, only something like 10% of the people vote. If we could get the other 90% of people to vote, we might actually be able to chase out the crazies and end up with a functional state government. If not, at least we'd know that's truly the government that Oklahoma wants.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Brandon on April 28, 2022, 05:48:34 PM
Soccer.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: SkyPesos on April 28, 2022, 05:57:00 PM
Bucees
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2022, 06:00:57 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 28, 2022, 05:57:00 PM
Bucees

Clearly you haven't experienced the godliness of Beaver Nuggets and the BBQ Brisket.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 06:13:42 PM
I'm glad this thread wasn't about the literal underscore character being overrated, because then I'd have to fight Kyle. :P
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2022, 06:15:19 PM
Russell Wilson
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 28, 2022, 06:43:01 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 28, 2022, 11:29:46 AM
The Beatles

Wawa

Whataburger

Sheetz  :)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CoreySamson on April 28, 2022, 07:14:14 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 28, 2022, 05:57:00 PM
Bucees
I have to defend Buc-ee's here. Maybe the hype for them is a bit too much (and honestly, I think that they would be more successful if they expanded with their rare 32-pump business model (https://goo.gl/maps/VEPgq2N8DxukRoNm8) rather than the over 100 pump juggernauts they're pumping out). But they do have their pluses that make it unique and definitely a premier gas station:

- Low gas prices (they treat it as a loss leader since they can sell other knick-knacks to make up the deficit; the one I fill up the most is regularly 10 cents cheaper than the gas station across the street)
- Well-paid employees
- Bathrooms are always clean, no matter what
- Fresh BBQ and kolaches
- Lots of unique options for snacks
- Cheap fountain drinks and Icees
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: SSOWorld on April 28, 2022, 08:01:29 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 28, 2022, 11:49:55 AM
Roads:

- All "new"  interstates, 73, 74, 69, 99, etc.  (Just use the underlaying US route numbers, nothing says a US or State route cannot be of interstate quality).
41 especially

Quote from: SP Cook on April 28, 2022, 11:49:55 AM
Off-topic:

- Chicago.
- NYC and SF

Quote from: snowc on April 28, 2022, 10:59:18 AM
iPhones.
- Android  devices

Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Disney World. You're paying hundreds per day for an artificial experience.
Anything Disney - MCU even borders on it.
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Pickup trucks.
Money spent on something you can't control without a two ton brick in the bed
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Wrestling and boxing. The former is entirely fake, and for the latter, who wants to watch people get hurt?
Boxing isn't a sport, boxing is beating the shit out of each other.  Tap dancing isn't a sport, I rest my case [/GeorgeCarlin]

Originals from me:
- Culvers: being built in places outside the region by retirees (AZ and FL)
- Florida in general, turned upside down.
- Pony cars - you can't drive them at any conditions other than clear (when it is sunny, they're fun as ever!)  Jeeps (Wrangler/Gladiator) are better convertibles!
- Texas.  They may have higher speed limits, but they have Nazi cops.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2022, 08:07:01 PM
Pony cars do look pretty good though sitting in a garage full of signs:

https://flic.kr/p/2nhe1v7

But it's true, that Challenger is about the most useless thing I've ever owned unless it's totally dry. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 08:12:41 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 28, 2022, 05:14:02 PM
I've made plenty of pumpkin pies from scratch in my lifetime. Every pumpkin pie recipe I've used called for mostly cinnamon with some combo of cloves, ginger, nutmeg, and/or allspice for spices. Not one called for "pumpkin spice." Pumpkin spice does not exist in nature; it's just a marketing gimmick though I'm sure Durkee's or someone else has a premixed version in the spice aisle.

Well yeah, that's exactly what pumpkin pie spice is:  a combination of those spices you just mentioned.  You might as well say 'hot sauce' doesn't exist in nature–so people should instead rehydrate and process dried chilies, then mix it with water, vinegar, salt, and maybe some garlic powder and/or cumin.  How is that really all that different?

Quote from: skluth on April 28, 2022, 05:16:00 PM

Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 04:52:43 PM
Voting.

So often, "get out there and vote" is touted as the ultimate path to change society–when in fact, there are likely a couple of other paths a person could pursue instead that would have more real impact.

Anybody who has ever been denied the right to vote will disagree.

Yes, fair answer.  I was not dismissing voting as a right or as an institution.  I was merely suggesting that it shouldn't be held up as the most powerful political voice an individual has.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2022, 05:17:48 PM
The Electoral College makes individual voting in Presidential Elections basically worthless.

Without the Electoral College, voting in presidential elections would be basically worthless for a lot of people too, just in a different way and for different people than it is now.  For a society as large and diverse as the USA, I'm not sure there's a perfect solution.

Quote from: Brandon on April 28, 2022, 05:48:34 PM
Soccer.

I had considered saying that, but I didn't want people *cough*Bruce*cough* to get upset.

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2022, 06:13:42 PM
I'm glad this thread wasn't about the literal underscore character being overrated, because then I'd have to fight Kyle. :P

You'd win, I'm sure, no matter what sort of fight.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: wriddle082 on April 28, 2022, 08:13:48 PM
The entire state of North Carolina
(Sorry to my NC friends!)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 08:18:08 PM
I didn't realize North Carolina was so highly rated to begin with.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Bruce on April 28, 2022, 08:21:44 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 08:12:41 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 28, 2022, 05:48:34 PM
Soccer.

I had considered saying that, but I didn't want people *cough*Bruce*cough* to get upset.

This whole thread is designed to make everyone mad at everyone else. Gloves are supposed to be off.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on April 28, 2022, 08:30:21 PM
Chicken sandwiches
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 28, 2022, 08:40:15 PM
Sliced bread
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on April 29, 2022, 08:09:31 AM
Quote from: wriddle082 on April 28, 2022, 08:13:48 PM
The entire state of North Carolina
(Sorry to my NC friends!)
Oh No, we are doomed!  :wow:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on April 29, 2022, 09:28:50 AM
Amazon.
Doesnt allow users to track Amazon packages, resulting in surprise. Not even sending shipping emails anymore.
But however, getting them on my phone!  :clap:
Well played Amazon, you deserved the overrated star!  :D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hotdogPi on April 29, 2022, 09:33:06 AM
Emojis are overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on April 29, 2022, 09:57:12 AM
Manfred Manns Blinded by the Light.  That song should go into the vault and join the Jethro Tull song Too Old To Rock n Roll.  The latter was one of many to go into the vault after being popular for a short time.  However the former we get stuck hearing over and over for several decades.

The John Morgan of Morgan and Morgan is.  His voice on radio is so annoying and his ads elsewhere is too overkill.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 10:08:35 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 28, 2022, 08:40:15 PM
Sliced bread

I mean, I like sliced bread oka-a-a-ay, I guess...  but it's hardly the gold standard against which all innovation should be measured.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on April 29, 2022, 10:10:31 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 29, 2022, 09:57:12 AM
Manfred Manns Blinded by the Light.  That song should go into the vault and join the Jethro Tull song Too Old To Rock n Roll.
Yeah.

The funny thing is, both Bruce Springsteen's version of Blinded by the Light and Manfred Mann's version of Spirits in the Night are great.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Henry on April 29, 2022, 10:24:05 AM
Yankee Stadium

California

Clearview

Top-40 music

DirecTV
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on April 29, 2022, 10:28:19 AM
Most major collegiate sports, especially in basketball:

64+ mens basketball teams (they may have won their conference or division titles, but even if they didn't, they still may get in) get to go to play "on the road to the Final Four".  This includes a few colleges you've never heard of....

But if you didn't make it to "the dance", you still might make it to the NIT tournament which is another bracket game with dozens of colleges. 

And if you miss getting into that tournament, then your team must really, really, REALLY suck goat balls. 

And then over in football, why do you have these perennial powerhouse colleges over-bragging about how good they are year after year?  Because they purposely schedule "creampuff" games in the first half of their season to pad their records with 50+ point routs of of schools that are not even close in terms of competitiveness levels. Have the stronger teams play a more difficult schedule each year like they do in the NFL.

And speaking of the NFL:  Dallas Cowboys:  America's team.   I am an American, they are not my team.

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bm7 on April 29, 2022, 11:43:20 AM
White chocolate and dark chocolate

80s music

Diamonds
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on April 29, 2022, 11:58:28 AM
Moderated forums. (Really, content moderation/censorship in general).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on April 29, 2022, 12:05:20 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 29, 2022, 09:33:06 AM
Emojis are overrated.

Not when it comes to deciphering the degree of seriousness of a post...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 12:06:51 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 29, 2022, 11:58:28 AM
Moderated forums. (Really, content moderation/censorship in general).

I'm surprised all the posts on here claiming Illinois is flat haven't yet been fact-checked and removed.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on April 29, 2022, 12:08:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 12:06:51 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 29, 2022, 11:58:28 AM
Moderated forums. (Really, content moderation/censorship in general).

I'm surprised all the posts on here claiming Illinois isn't flat haven't yet been fact-checked and removed.

Me too.  :-P
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on April 29, 2022, 12:09:48 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 12:06:51 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 29, 2022, 11:58:28 AM
Moderated forums. (Really, content moderation/censorship in general).

I'm surprised all the posts on here claiming Illinois is flat haven't yet been fact-checked and removed.
Claim: Illinois is flat.
Rating: Mostly true.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 29, 2022, 01:01:44 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 29, 2022, 12:09:48 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 12:06:51 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 29, 2022, 11:58:28 AM
Moderated forums. (Really, content moderation/censorship in general).

I'm surprised all the posts on here claiming Illinois is flat haven't yet been fact-checked and removed.
Claim: Illinois is flat.
Rating: Mostly true.

But did you vote in the poll?

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=31275.0

Of course that's assuming you don't believe the notion above that voting is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 01:18:46 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 29, 2022, 01:01:44 PM
But did you vote in the poll?

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=31275.0

Of course that's assuming you don't believe the notion above that voting is overrated.

(https://i.imgflip.com/6ecf1c.jpg)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on April 29, 2022, 01:24:58 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 29, 2022, 01:01:44 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 29, 2022, 12:09:48 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 12:06:51 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 29, 2022, 11:58:28 AM
Moderated forums. (Really, content moderation/censorship in general).

I'm surprised all the posts on here claiming Illinois is flat haven't yet been fact-checked and removed.
Claim: Illinois is flat.
Rating: Mostly true.

But did you vote in the poll?

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=31275.0

Of course that's assuming you don't believe the notion above that voting is overrated.
I do not believe voting is overrated, so I voted in the poll.

And the Electoral College is a solution in search of a problem.  If you need proof, consider the fact that the Republican candidate for President has won the national popular vote once since 1988.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 01:46:52 PM
OK, enough politics...



The Negroni is overrated.  Each of its ingredients tastes better by itself.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on April 29, 2022, 01:56:10 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 01:46:52 PMThe Negroni is overrated.  Each of its ingredients tastes better by itself.
I tried a Campari and soda once.

Once.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 01:59:48 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 29, 2022, 01:56:10 PM

Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 01:46:52 PM
The Negroni is overrated.  Each of its ingredients tastes better by itself.
I tried a Campari and soda once.

Once.

I quite enjoy an Americano.  That's Campari and sweet vermouth topped off with club soda.  Sometimes I add a bit of orange juice, other times I sub Aperol for the Campari.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 04:25:26 PM
More blades are overrated.

(https://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3101/2088/1600/mach14-775759.jpg)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on April 29, 2022, 04:28:38 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 04:25:26 PM
More blades are overrated.

(https://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3101/2088/1600/mach14-775759.jpg)
"You got racism in my transphobia!"
"You got transphobia in my racism!"
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 04:55:40 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 29, 2022, 04:28:38 PM
"You got racism in my transphobia!"
"You got transphobia in my racism!"

:-D

Sort of offensive.  But, on the other hand, living in a city with a sizeable Lebanese population, and having a mother who has worked with countless Lebanese doctors during her nursing career... I find that... it's also... just... kind of... true.

(says a man with a lot of body hair himself)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 29, 2022, 04:58:46 PM
Mach 14?  Try Mach 20:

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on April 29, 2022, 05:10:34 PM
Party schools (UIUC, UW-Madison, etc.)

Going to the bars (at least the ones I went to last weekend)

Sex jokes (I make them too sometimes but they really are pretty stale and lame)

Staying up extremely late at night

Waking up extremely late in the day

Mega city downtowns

Lewis Hamilton
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 05:12:47 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 09:28:50 AM
Amazon.
Doesnt allow users to track Amazon packages, resulting in surprise.

(https://i.imgur.com/CaqWrJo.png)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on April 29, 2022, 05:17:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 05:12:47 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 09:28:50 AM
Amazon.
Doesnt allow users to track Amazon packages, resulting in surprise.

(https://i.imgur.com/CaqWrJo.png)
And remember, "delivered" just means "it will be delivered between 0 and 24 hours from now"
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 05:30:36 PM
In my experience, "it will be delivered between 0 and 24 hours from now" corresponds to "package is out for delivery". I don't think I've ever seen a "package delivered" message and not be able to immediately go out and retrieve the item from the porch. Maybe this varies by region.

Either way, though, snowc's claim that "Amazon doesn't allow users to track Amazon packages" is false.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on April 29, 2022, 05:33:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 05:30:36 PM
In my experience, "it will be delivered between 0 and 24 hours from now" corresponds to "package is out for delivery". I don't think I've ever seen a "package delivered" message and not be able to immediately go out and retrieve the item from the porch. Maybe this varies by region.

Either way, though, snowc's claim that "Amazon doesn't allow users to track Amazon packages" is false.

I've found that there is a feature on Amazon's page that will show you where the driver is in your neighborhood and tell you how many more stops he has before he gets to your house. I do not remember what led me to that feature, but if the weather is crummy or I'm waiting for something I don't want sitting outside, that's a useful feature to have available. (And it further rebuts snowc's claim.)

I can't activate the feature now to get a screenshot because I don't have anything on order from Amazon.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 29, 2022, 06:08:37 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 05:30:36 PM
In my experience, "it will be delivered between 0 and 24 hours from now" corresponds to "package is out for delivery". I don't think I've ever seen a "package delivered" message and not be able to immediately go out and retrieve the item from the porch. Maybe this varies by region.

Either way, though, snowc's claim that "Amazon doesn't allow users to track Amazon packages" is false.

Occasionally, "delivered" means the driver is two blocks away.  But close enough.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Big John on April 29, 2022, 06:34:00 PM
Anything with a "+" attached to it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:44:24 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 05:12:47 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 09:28:50 AM
Amazon.
Doesnt allow users to track Amazon packages, resulting in surprise.

(https://i.imgur.com/CaqWrJo.png)
Aaannd it was delivered by the postal service
(https://i.imgur.com/QazPRSI.jpeg)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:46:23 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on April 29, 2022, 05:17:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 05:12:47 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 09:28:50 AM
Amazon.
Doesnt allow users to track Amazon packages, resulting in surprise.

(https://i.imgur.com/CaqWrJo.png)
And remember, "delivered" just means "it will be delivered between 0 and 24 hours from now"
Unlike the postal service, which delivered my Mi band today.
(https://i.imgur.com/5DTbv7F.jpeg)
And yes, that is my postman delivering the mail for today.  :D
EDIT: Updated link for blurred postman, per Scott. -BM
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on April 29, 2022, 08:33:34 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 05:30:36 PM
In my experience, "it will be delivered between 0 and 24 hours from now" corresponds to "package is out for delivery". I don't think I've ever seen a "package delivered" message and not be able to immediately go out and retrieve the item from the porch. Maybe this varies by region.

Either way, though, snowc's claim that "Amazon doesn't allow users to track Amazon packages" is false.
It hasn't happened to me in a while (possibly because I'm spending far less money at Amazon than I used to), but when I would complain to Amazon that an order said "delivered"  and was nowhere to be found, they would tell me to wait 24 hours and see if it was delivered in that timeframe.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 08:44:51 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:46:23 PM
And yes, that is my postman delivering the mail for today.  :D

Did you ask him if he was ok with you taking that picture?

Quote from: Big John on April 29, 2022, 06:34:00 PM
Anything with a "+" attached to it.

I would agree that C++ is doubly overrated.

("Wait!" says the C++ programmer. "++ is the increment operator, so it's only overrated once!")
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on April 29, 2022, 09:37:17 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Disney World. You're paying hundreds per day for an artificial experience.

What's artificial? Last few times I was there, it (and the experience) seemed pretty real.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 09:40:57 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 29, 2022, 09:37:17 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Disney World. You're paying hundreds per day for an artificial experience.

What's artificial? Last few times I was there, it (and the experience) seemed pretty real.

That's not a real mouse.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: the91fwy on April 29, 2022, 09:41:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 08:44:51 PM
Quote from: Big John on April 29, 2022, 06:34:00 PM
Anything with a "+" attached to it.

I would agree that C++ is doubly overrated.

("Wait!" says the C++ programmer. "++ is the increment operator, so it's only overrated once!")

i get there is a nerdy funny here but seriously know what's overrated? javascript and electron apps.

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 09:40:57 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 29, 2022, 09:37:17 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Disney World. You're paying hundreds per day for an artificial experience.

What's artificial? Last few times I was there, it (and the experience) seemed pretty real.

That's not a real mouse.

if it's anything like disneyland there may not be a real mouse but there are for sure real cats. meow.

~cat
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on April 29, 2022, 09:45:30 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 09:40:57 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 29, 2022, 09:37:17 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Disney World. You're paying hundreds per day for an artificial experience.

What's artificial? Last few times I was there, it (and the experience) seemed pretty real.

That's not a real mouse.

It's a real character, though.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on April 29, 2022, 09:56:38 PM
Quote from: Big John on April 29, 2022, 06:34:00 PM
Anything with a "+" attached to it.

AARoads+: Coming Spring 2023
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on April 30, 2022, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on April 29, 2022, 09:56:38 PM
Quote from: Big John on April 29, 2022, 06:34:00 PM
Anything with a "+" attached to it.

AARoads+: Coming Spring 2023
@Alex, yall better not require us to pay for this forum!  :-D :ded:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on April 30, 2022, 09:29:10 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 08:44:51 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:46:23 PM
And yes, that is my postman delivering the mail for today.  :D

Did you ask him if he was ok with you taking that picture?

Quote from: Big John on April 29, 2022, 06:34:00 PM
Anything with a "+" attached to it.

I would agree that C++ is doubly overrated.

("Wait!" says the C++ programmer. "++ is the increment operator, so it's only overrated once!")
I don't know, isn't it allowed?  :confused:
I blurred his face out.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Ted$8roadFan on April 30, 2022, 09:30:24 AM
Quote from: Big John on April 29, 2022, 06:34:00 PM
Anything with a "+" attached to it.

Yes, most anything with a + should be a giant red flag.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on April 30, 2022, 09:46:57 AM
Paramount Plus?

It may be costly but we get Picard at least.
:sombrero:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 30, 2022, 10:08:14 AM
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Disney World. You're paying hundreds per day for an artificial experience.

If you want a free roller-coaster experience, the police are usually involved, maybe an ambulance, and when it's done your deductible will require you to pay hundreds of dollars anyway.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on April 30, 2022, 10:19:08 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 30, 2022, 09:46:57 AM
Paramount Plus?

It may be costly but we get Picard at least.
:sombrero:
We have it, watch spongebob on it.  :D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: wanderer2575 on April 30, 2022, 11:12:16 AM
Chick-fil-A

Krispy Kreme

Professional sports drafts (double for their TV broadcasts)

Any Kardashian (actually, any "celebrity")

Huge and expensive weddings

Selfies

Social media "influencers" (attention, people being influenced:  Get A Life!!!)

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on April 30, 2022, 12:28:41 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on April 30, 2022, 11:12:16 AM
Chick-fil-A

Krispy Kreme

Professional sports drafts (double for their TV broadcasts)

Any Kardashian (actually, any "celebrity")

Huge and expensive weddings

Selfies

Social media "influencers" (attention, people being influenced:  Get A Life!!!)
One of dad's coworkers' roommate was Dan Cathy.  :D
He did meet him in College.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on April 30, 2022, 12:45:33 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on April 30, 2022, 11:12:16 AM
Huge and expensive weddings

"The bigger the wedding, the bigger the divorce."
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Brandon on April 30, 2022, 12:48:29 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 30, 2022, 10:08:14 AM
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Disney World. You're paying hundreds per day for an artificial experience.

If you want a free roller-coaster experience, the police are usually involved, maybe an ambulance, and when it's done your deductible will require you to pay hundreds of dollars anyway.

I can pay a lot less and still get a better roller coaster experience than Disney.  Honestly, Disney's coasters suck.  I can get a two-day ride and slide (main park and Soak City water park) at Cedar Point for a hell of a lot less than Disney with better rides and more manageable lines.  And no stupid rat.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on April 30, 2022, 04:14:33 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 09:40:57 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 29, 2022, 09:37:17 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Disney World. You're paying hundreds per day for an artificial experience.

What's artificial? Last few times I was there, it (and the experience) seemed pretty real.

That's not a real mouse.

:-D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 30, 2022, 04:28:33 PM
Quote from: kkt on April 30, 2022, 04:14:33 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 09:40:57 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 29, 2022, 09:37:17 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Disney World. You're paying hundreds per day for an artificial experience.

What's artificial? Last few times I was there, it (and the experience) seemed pretty real.

That's not a real mouse.

:-D

Better?

https://images.app.goo.gl/dYH6cdjZZBheVbXR8
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 30, 2022, 04:41:20 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2022, 04:35:06 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Facebook.
Disney World. You're paying hundreds per day for an artificial experience.
Any singer or band who started after 2000.
Starbucks.
Twilight (the book, not actual twilight).
My Little Pony.
Chick-fil-A.
Pickup trucks.
Wrestling and boxing. The former is entirely fake, and for the latter, who wants to watch people get hurt?
Four-way stops, by people outside this forum.

Boxing used to be pretty fantastic back in the 1980s.  I would venture a guess that a lot of people who watch sports in general find an appeal to potential injury.  It certainly was an attraction with crowds in auto racing and hockey.

And football, until they started discouraging hard hitting. I would agree that the dangerous elements were a large part of the appeal for many people. While NASCAR had been under fire over safety for some time before Dale Earnhardt's death forced NASCAR to act, I wonder if someone less prominent being killed would have resulted in more minimal change.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 04:53:33 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 09:29:10 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 08:44:51 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:46:23 PM
And yes, that is my postman delivering the mail for today.  :D

Did you ask him if he was ok with you taking that picture?

I don't know, isn't it allowed?  :confused:
I blurred his face out.

I wouldn't want a customer taking a picture of me doing my job, even if they promised me they were going to blur my face out. It's still a violation of my personal boundaries unless I actively consent to the picture being taken. (It's also just generally not a good idea–some people would take so much offense to unwanted picture-taking that they'd beat the shit out of you for it.)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 30, 2022, 04:57:54 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 30, 2022, 04:41:20 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2022, 04:35:06 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Facebook.
Disney World. You're paying hundreds per day for an artificial experience.
Any singer or band who started after 2000.
Starbucks.
Twilight (the book, not actual twilight).
My Little Pony.
Chick-fil-A.
Pickup trucks.
Wrestling and boxing. The former is entirely fake, and for the latter, who wants to watch people get hurt?
Four-way stops, by people outside this forum.

Boxing used to be pretty fantastic back in the 1980s.  I would venture a guess that a lot of people who watch sports in general find an appeal to potential injury.  It certainly was an attraction with crowds in auto racing and hockey.

And football, until they started discouraging hard hitting. I would agree that the dangerous elements were a large part of the appeal for many people. While NASCAR had been under fire over safety for some time before Dale Earnhardt's death forced NASCAR to act, I wonder if someone less prominent being killed would have resulted in more minimal change.

There is we several (three I believe) significant driver deaths in the time period shortly before Dale Earnhardt died.  Had Dale Earnhardt survived safety standards would have caught up with NASCAR eventually given they weren't adopting things like HANS devices and closed face helmets as mandatory equipment.  That said, as bad as NASCAR got grilled for that they generally had a better driver mortality record than other racing leagues before Dale Earnhardt's death.  Dale Earnhardt had his restraint system modified for personal comfort too which also contributed his death.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on April 30, 2022, 06:06:02 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 04:53:33 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 09:29:10 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 08:44:51 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:46:23 PM
And yes, that is my postman delivering the mail for today.  :D

Did you ask him if he was ok with you taking that picture?

I don't know, isn't it allowed?  :confused:
I blurred his face out.

I wouldn't want a customer taking a picture of me doing my job, even if they promised me they were going to blur my face out. It's still a violation of my personal boundaries unless I actively consent to the picture being taken. (It's also just generally not a good idea–some people would take so much offense to unwanted picture-taking that they'd beat the shit out of you for it.)

Agreed generally, unless there's a particular reason and you have permission.

Now that the image has been blurred, though, you're not seeing any more than you'd see on Street View, and probably less than you could see on a home security camera, and I'm sure people in delivery jobs are aware that they could potentially be seen that way.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on April 30, 2022, 06:26:41 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 30, 2022, 06:06:02 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 04:53:33 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 09:29:10 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 08:44:51 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:46:23 PM
And yes, that is my postman delivering the mail for today.  :D

Did you ask him if he was ok with you taking that picture?

I don't know, isn't it allowed?  :confused:
I blurred his face out.

I wouldn't want a customer taking a picture of me doing my job, even if they promised me they were going to blur my face out. It's still a violation of my personal boundaries unless I actively consent to the picture being taken. (It's also just generally not a good idea–some people would take so much offense to unwanted picture-taking that they'd beat the shit out of you for it.)

Agreed generally, unless there's a particular reason and you have permission.

Now that the image has been blurred, though, you're not seeing any more than you'd see on Street View, and probably less than you could see on a home security camera, and I'm sure people in delivery jobs are aware that they could potentially be seen that way.
In addition, my home is blurred due to privacy reasons set forth by my landlord.  :D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hotdogPi on April 30, 2022, 06:29:41 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 06:26:41 PM
In addition, my home is blurred due to privacy reasons set forth by my landlord.  :D

That just makes it more suspicious. You're probably safer having it visible just like every other house, and nobody would think twice about your house even when they do see it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 30, 2022, 07:20:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 04:53:33 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 09:29:10 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 08:44:51 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:46:23 PM
And yes, that is my postman delivering the mail for today.  :D

Did you ask him if he was ok with you taking that picture?

I don't know, isn't it allowed?  :confused:
I blurred his face out.

I wouldn't want a customer taking a picture of me doing my job, even if they promised me they were going to blur my face out. It's still a violation of my personal boundaries unless I actively consent to the picture being taken. (It's also just generally not a good idea–some people would take so much offense to unwanted picture-taking that they'd beat the shit out of you for it.)
We're getting photographed constantly nowadays.  Just embrace it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 30, 2022, 07:20:37 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 30, 2022, 06:29:41 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 06:26:41 PM
In addition, my home is blurred due to privacy reasons set forth by my landlord.  :D

That just makes it more suspicious. You're probably safer having it visible just like every other house, and nobody would think twice about your house even when they do see it.
Yep.  First thing I thought was that there must have been some sort of code violation there.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on April 30, 2022, 08:55:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 30, 2022, 07:20:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 04:53:33 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 09:29:10 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 08:44:51 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:46:23 PM
And yes, that is my postman delivering the mail for today.  :D

Did you ask him if he was ok with you taking that picture?

I don't know, isn't it allowed?  :confused:
I blurred his face out.

I wouldn't want a customer taking a picture of me doing my job, even if they promised me they were going to blur my face out. It's still a violation of my personal boundaries unless I actively consent to the picture being taken. (It's also just generally not a good idea—some people would take so much offense to unwanted picture-taking that they'd beat the shit out of you for it.)
We're getting photographed constantly nowadays.  Just embrace it.

That can fall under the concept of Freedom of Panorama; a public street is a public place, and that means you may be photographed. Whether you can have commercial gain from it and if the human subject almost entirely encompasses the photo, is where the line gets crossed. As it is a US public official in the course of their official duties (as opposed to having a sandwich), it's entirely justifiable.

Otherwise, a perpetual flow of lawsuits would prevent people from ever wanting to photograph an object because the side of someone's head is in 0.5% of the image. This is pretty much covered by the concept of "street photography", which is generally legal, as per "no reasonable expectation of privacy in a public place". That's where you have to use a sense of ethics and self-control.

Or who knows...you might stir up a controversy that would have been unknown. Welcome to art.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 09:32:42 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 30, 2022, 06:29:41 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 06:26:41 PM
In addition, my home is blurred due to privacy reasons set forth by my landlord.  :D

That just makes it more suspicious. You're probably safer having it visible just like every other house, and nobody would think twice about your house even when they do see it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Quote from: Rothman on April 30, 2022, 07:20:07 PM
We're getting photographed constantly nowadays.  Just embrace it.

no

The nice thing is now it's not entirely weird to wear a face mask in a place that has video surveillance.

Quote from: formulanone on April 30, 2022, 08:55:42 PM
That can fall under the concept of Freedom of Panorama; a public street is a public place, and that means you may be photographed. Whether you can have commercial gain from it and the human subject is almost entirely encompasses the photo is where the line gets crossed. As it is a US public official in the course of their official duties (as opposed to having a sandwich), it's entirely justifiable.

Otherwise, a perpetual flow of lawsuits would prevent people from ever wanting to photograph an object because the side of someone's head is in 0.5% of the image. This is pretty much covered by the concept of "street photography", which is generally legal, as per "no reasonable expectation of privacy in a public place". That's where you have to use a sense of ethics and self-control.

Or who knows...you might stir up a controversy that would have been unknown. Welcome to art.

I think where the ethical line is, is between "do I happen to be an incidental part of a picture of a place I happen to be in"–that's probably fine, and I don't have much of a problem with that–and "did someone take a picture of me specifically, for some reason unknown to me"–that's what gives me the heebie jeebies. My rule is basically to never focus the lens on someone that hasn't explicitly given me consent to do so.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 30, 2022, 09:35:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 09:32:42 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 30, 2022, 06:29:41 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 06:26:41 PM
In addition, my home is blurred due to privacy reasons set forth by my landlord.  :D

That just makes it more suspicious. You're probably safer having it visible just like every other house, and nobody would think twice about your house even when they do see it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Quote from: Rothman on April 30, 2022, 07:20:07 PM
We're getting photographed constantly nowadays.  Just embrace it.

no

The nice thing is now it's not entirely weird to wear a face mask in a place that has video surveillance.
We need a photo of Scott now.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 30, 2022, 09:35:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 09:32:42 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 30, 2022, 06:29:41 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 06:26:41 PM
In addition, my home is blurred due to privacy reasons set forth by my landlord.  :D

That just makes it more suspicious. You're probably safer having it visible just like every other house, and nobody would think twice about your house even when they do see it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Quote from: Rothman on April 30, 2022, 07:20:07 PM
We're getting photographed constantly nowadays.  Just embrace it.

no

The nice thing is now it's not entirely weird to wear a face mask in a place that has video surveillance.
We need a photo of Scott now.

Prepare to be disappointed. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28690.msg2719841#msg2719841)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: wxfree on May 01, 2022, 02:50:35 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 30, 2022, 07:20:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 04:53:33 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 09:29:10 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 08:44:51 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:46:23 PM
And yes, that is my postman delivering the mail for today.  :D

Did you ask him if he was ok with you taking that picture?

I don't know, isn't it allowed?  :confused:
I blurred his face out.

I wouldn't want a customer taking a picture of me doing my job, even if they promised me they were going to blur my face out. It's still a violation of my personal boundaries unless I actively consent to the picture being taken. (It's also just generally not a good idea–some people would take so much offense to unwanted picture-taking that they'd beat the shit out of you for it.)
We're getting photographed constantly nowadays.  Just embrace it.

That's true, but it doesn't mean you have to contribute to it.  I'm a bit of a photographer.  I don't point a camera at people unless it's someone I know or someone participating in a public event, such that photography can be expected.  Still, if I point a camera at someone and they hide, I don't push the button.  That seems disrespectful.  To me, it isn't about rights, it's about wrongs.  I don't believe that rights should be used to justify intentional violations of a person, such as a clear and demonstrated wish not to be photographed.  Of course, I can apply this only to myself, because if something is your right, then it is your right.  But I believe that sometimes exercising a right can be wrong, and "because I can" is often not a good reason or justification for doing something.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 01, 2022, 09:52:20 AM


Quote from: wxfree on May 01, 2022, 02:50:35 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 30, 2022, 07:20:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 04:53:33 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 09:29:10 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2022, 08:44:51 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 29, 2022, 06:46:23 PM
And yes, that is my postman delivering the mail for today.  :D

Did you ask him if he was ok with you taking that picture?

I don't know, isn't it allowed?  :confused:
I blurred his face out.

I wouldn't want a customer taking a picture of me doing my job, even if they promised me they were going to blur my face out. It's still a violation of my personal boundaries unless I actively consent to the picture being taken. (It's also just generally not a good idea–some people would take so much offense to unwanted picture-taking that they'd beat the shit out of you for it.)
We're getting photographed constantly nowadays.  Just embrace it.

That's true, but it doesn't mean you have to contribute to it.  I'm a bit of a photographer.  I don't point a camera at people unless it's someone I know or someone participating in a public event, such that photography can be expected.  Still, if I point a camera at someone and they hide, I don't push the button.  That seems disrespectful.  To me, it isn't about rights, it's about wrongs.  I don't believe that rights should be used to justify intentional violations of a person, such as a clear and demonstrated wish not to be photographed.  Of course, I can apply this only to myself, because if something is your right, then it is your right.  But I believe that sometimes exercising a right can be wrong, and "because I can" is often not a good reason or justification for doing something.

So, did the postal worker that started this discussion show a clear and demonstrated wish to not be photographed?  I'd bet most of the time in the public square you just aren't aware of when you're being photographed and 99.99% of the time, it really doesn't matter.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 01, 2022, 04:34:08 PM
I personally find "he didn't say yes" to be the morally just piece of information, rather than "he didn't say no".
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on May 01, 2022, 07:12:40 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 30, 2022, 04:57:54 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 30, 2022, 04:41:20 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2022, 04:35:06 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Facebook.
Disney World. You're paying hundreds per day for an artificial experience.
Any singer or band who started after 2000.
Starbucks.
Twilight (the book, not actual twilight).
My Little Pony.
Chick-fil-A.
Pickup trucks.
Wrestling and boxing. The former is entirely fake, and for the latter, who wants to watch people get hurt?
Four-way stops, by people outside this forum.

Boxing used to be pretty fantastic back in the 1980s.  I would venture a guess that a lot of people who watch sports in general find an appeal to potential injury.  It certainly was an attraction with crowds in auto racing and hockey.

And football, until they started discouraging hard hitting. I would agree that the dangerous elements were a large part of the appeal for many people. While NASCAR had been under fire over safety for some time before Dale Earnhardt's death forced NASCAR to act, I wonder if someone less prominent being killed would have resulted in more minimal change.

There is we several (three I believe) significant driver deaths in the time period shortly before Dale Earnhardt died.  Had Dale Earnhardt survived safety standards would have caught up with NASCAR eventually given they weren't adopting things like HANS devices and closed face helmets as mandatory equipment.  That said, as bad as NASCAR got grilled for that they generally had a better driver mortality record than other racing leagues before Dale Earnhardt's death.  Dale Earnhardt had his restraint system modified for personal comfort too which also contributed his death.

Kenny Irwin, Adam Petty, and John Nemechek. One of the first two fatalities resulted in one of the New Hampshire races being run with restrictor plates. Jeff Burton led every lap and won the race; it was one of the worst races I ever watched. Nemechek's death happened in the truck series at Miami and resulted in that speedway being reconfigured to eliminate some of the "square" corners. In his crash, his truck spun sideways and the driver's side hit the wall pretty flush. The safety net didn't keep his head from impacting the side of the wall.

Back to the original topic, getting intoxicated is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on May 01, 2022, 08:32:05 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 01, 2022, 07:12:40 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 30, 2022, 04:57:54 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 30, 2022, 04:41:20 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 28, 2022, 04:35:06 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Facebook.
Disney World. You're paying hundreds per day for an artificial experience.
Any singer or band who started after 2000.
Starbucks.
Twilight (the book, not actual twilight).
My Little Pony.
Chick-fil-A.
Pickup trucks.
Wrestling and boxing. The former is entirely fake, and for the latter, who wants to watch people get hurt?
Four-way stops, by people outside this forum.

Boxing used to be pretty fantastic back in the 1980s.  I would venture a guess that a lot of people who watch sports in general find an appeal to potential injury.  It certainly was an attraction with crowds in auto racing and hockey.

And football, until they started discouraging hard hitting. I would agree that the dangerous elements were a large part of the appeal for many people. While NASCAR had been under fire over safety for some time before Dale Earnhardt's death forced NASCAR to act, I wonder if someone less prominent being killed would have resulted in more minimal change.

There is we several (three I believe) significant driver deaths in the time period shortly before Dale Earnhardt died.  Had Dale Earnhardt survived safety standards would have caught up with NASCAR eventually given they weren't adopting things like HANS devices and closed face helmets as mandatory equipment.  That said, as bad as NASCAR got grilled for that they generally had a better driver mortality record than other racing leagues before Dale Earnhardt's death.  Dale Earnhardt had his restraint system modified for personal comfort too which also contributed his death.

Kenny Irwin, Adam Petty, and John Nemechek. One of the first two fatalities resulted in one of the New Hampshire races being run with restrictor plates. Jeff Burton led every lap and won the race; it was one of the worst races I ever watched. Nemechek's death happened in the truck series at Miami and resulted in that speedway being reconfigured to eliminate some of the "square" corners. In his crash, his truck spun sideways and the driver's side hit the wall pretty flush. The safety net didn't keep his head from impacting the side of the wall.

It wasn't until later in 2001, when Blaise Alexander died of the same injury in an ARCA race at Charlotte, that NASCAR mandated the devices, though at the time ARCA wasn't a NASCAR-owned series.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 01, 2022, 08:37:57 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 30, 2022, 09:35:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 09:32:42 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 30, 2022, 06:29:41 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 06:26:41 PM
In addition, my home is blurred due to privacy reasons set forth by my landlord.  :D

That just makes it more suspicious. You're probably safer having it visible just like every other house, and nobody would think twice about your house even when they do see it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Quote from: Rothman on April 30, 2022, 07:20:07 PM
We're getting photographed constantly nowadays.  Just embrace it.

no

The nice thing is now it's not entirely weird to wear a face mask in a place that has video surveillance.
We need a photo of Scott now.

Prepare to be disappointed. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28690.msg2719841#msg2719841)
You got the long hair? That's cool!  :clap: :hmmm:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 01, 2022, 09:17:30 PM
Heh, thanks. I actually need to get it cut now that it's warming up. (I usually cut it back to a little above my shoulders this time of year.)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 01, 2022, 09:41:57 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 01, 2022, 04:34:08 PM
I personally find "he didn't say yes" to be the morally just piece of information, rather than "he didn't say no".
*shrug*

Do you stop and yell at everyone that may catch you in a photo as you drive by?  Or, if you're travelling to a crowded attraction and people are taking selfies, do you snag their phones and delete photos with you in them?

The sense of morality you're describing is pious given modern realities.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 01, 2022, 09:47:09 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 01, 2022, 09:41:57 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 01, 2022, 04:34:08 PM
I personally find "he didn't say yes" to be the morally just piece of information, rather than "he didn't say no".
*shrug*

Do you stop and yell at everyone that may catch you in a photo as you drive by?  Or, if you're travelling to a crowded attraction and people are taking selfies, do you snag their phones and delete photos with you in them?

The sense of morality you're describing is pious given modern realities.


Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 09:32:42 PM
I think where the ethical line is, is between "do I happen to be an incidental part of a picture of a place I happen to be in"–that's probably fine, and I don't have much of a problem with that–and "did someone take a picture of me specifically, for some reason unknown to me"–that's what gives me the heebie jeebies. My rule is basically to never focus the lens on someone that hasn't explicitly given me consent to do so.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on May 01, 2022, 09:52:53 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 01, 2022, 07:12:40 PM
Back to the original topic, getting intoxicated is overrated.

+1 to that. Almost nothing good comes out of getting drunk and yet a significant amount of people do it. It's when the stupidest decisions are made, and you feel like rubbish the morning after. I don't mind have a few drinks. I'm still trying to find my limit, but I've never gone really overboard so far.

I'm thankful to be graduating from university this month.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 01, 2022, 09:55:57 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 01, 2022, 09:47:09 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 01, 2022, 09:41:57 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 01, 2022, 04:34:08 PM
I personally find "he didn't say yes" to be the morally just piece of information, rather than "he didn't say no".
*shrug*

Do you stop and yell at everyone that may catch you in a photo as you drive by?  Or, if you're travelling to a crowded attraction and people are taking selfies, do you snag their phones and delete photos with you in them?

The sense of morality you're describing is pious given modern realities.


Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 09:32:42 PM
I think where the ethical line is, is between "do I happen to be an incidental part of a picture of a place I happen to be in"–that's probably fine, and I don't have much of a problem with that–and "did someone take a picture of me specifically, for some reason unknown to me"–that's what gives me the heebie jeebies. My rule is basically to never focus the lens on someone that hasn't explicitly given me consent to do so.
Excellent.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on May 01, 2022, 10:12:42 PM
If someone was pointing a camera directly at me to take a picture, I would definitely be wondering why.  But you can also see if they're reacting in such a way where they may be taking a selfie.

That said, I could easily act like I'm taking a selfie, and really be taking a picture of you.  Or point the camera away from you, but in 0.5x (1/2x) mode, still easily get a picture of you.  Or put it in video mode and hold it or pan it around a bit, and eventually get you in the video.

If they want a pic of you, they'll get it and do whatever they want later.

[/stalker talk]
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 01, 2022, 10:23:21 PM
Just because someone else is being a piece of shit doesn't mean I have to be a piece of shit too...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on May 01, 2022, 11:46:09 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 01, 2022, 09:52:53 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 01, 2022, 07:12:40 PM
Back to the original topic, getting intoxicated is overrated.

+1 to that. Almost nothing good comes out of getting drunk and yet a significant amount of people do it. It's when the stupidest decisions are made, and you feel like rubbish the morning after. I don't mind have a few drinks. I'm still trying to find my limit, but I've never gone really overboard so far.

I'm thankful to be graduating from university this month.

Yes.  I have been drunk, but not often.  I'm not happy when I get drunk.  Usually sad, missing people or things I'll never see again, completely out of proportion to the good people and things that are in my life.  So, while I have an occassional beer or shot of brandy, I don't get drunk.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 01, 2022, 11:47:48 PM
Quote from: kkt on May 01, 2022, 11:46:09 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 01, 2022, 09:52:53 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 01, 2022, 07:12:40 PM
Back to the original topic, getting intoxicated is overrated.

+1 to that. Almost nothing good comes out of getting drunk and yet a significant amount of people do it. It's when the stupidest decisions are made, and you feel like rubbish the morning after. I don't mind have a few drinks. I'm still trying to find my limit, but I've never gone really overboard so far.

I'm thankful to be graduating from university this month.

Yes.  I have been drunk, but not often.  I'm not happy when I get drunk.  Usually sad, missing people or things I'll never see again, completely out of proportion to the good people and things that are in my life.  So, while I have an occassional beer or shot of brandy, I don't get drunk.

Being hammered and sloppy drunk is vastly overrated.  What is underrated is a couple relaxing drinks when nobody is around to bother you on a day off. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 01, 2022, 11:52:07 PM
I haven't been buzzed in almost 4 years and actually drunk in who knows how long, but I did actually enjoy the feelings I had when drunk.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 02, 2022, 07:47:20 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 01, 2022, 09:52:53 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 01, 2022, 07:12:40 PM
Back to the original topic, getting intoxicated is overrated.
I'm thankful to be graduating from university this month.
Right behind you, graduating December next year!  :D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on May 02, 2022, 10:47:19 AM
I like a nice buzz after a drink or two. Full on drunk starts to feel unpleasant, but I'll take it over a marijuana high any day of the week. Leading to my next "overrated"  choice...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 10:52:08 AM
Being a smug, self-righteous prude.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 10:54:01 AM
If I were a delivery driver, and the customer took a picture of me by the truck, I'd probably assume the customer was unhappy with my service and was wanting to document my visit–whether as something to send to my boss or complain about on social media or whatever.  It might prompt me to go back up to the door and ask if I could right some wrong but, other than that, I'd assume that was just par for the course.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 02, 2022, 10:55:50 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 10:54:01 AM
If I were a delivery driver, and the customer took a picture of me by the truck, I'd probably assume the customer was unhappy with my service and was wanting to document my visit–whether as something to send to my boss or complain about on social media or whatever.  It might prompt me to go back up to the door and ask if I could right some wrong but, other than that, I'd assume that was just par for the course.
I have had delivery orders sent to me where they require the driver to take a picture for delivery purposes. Sometimes my house or my face comes in the way.  :D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 02, 2022, 11:04:27 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 10:54:01 AM
If I were a delivery driver, and the customer took a picture of me by the truck, I'd probably assume the customer was unhappy with my service and was wanting to document my visit–whether as something to send to my boss or complain about on social media or whatever.  It might prompt me to go back up to the door and ask if I could right some wrong but, other than that, I'd assume that was just par for the course.

If you deliver to a residence or business, you are more likely to be recorded than photographed.

Wave to the camera!

It's more likely that someone is recording how late or verifying arrival of the delivery, and much less concerned with the delivery driver (unless the delivery includes a nasty tossing of the parcel).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Ned Weasel on May 02, 2022, 11:05:19 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 10:42:16 AM
Bagels.

I like bagels, but you know what I don't like?  Cream cheese.  Cream cheese is overrated!  You could put almost anything else on a bagel, and I'd love it, but if it has to have cream cheese on it, then no thanks.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 02, 2022, 11:12:46 AM
Quote from: formulanone on May 02, 2022, 11:04:27 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 10:54:01 AM
If I were a delivery driver, and the customer took a picture of me by the truck, I'd probably assume the customer was unhappy with my service and was wanting to document my visit–whether as something to send to my boss or complain about on social media or whatever.  It might prompt me to go back up to the door and ask if I could right some wrong but, other than that, I'd assume that was just par for the course.

If you deliver to a residence or business, you are more likely to be recorded than photographed.

Wave to the camera!
(https://i.imgur.com/VBSLD5b.jpeg)
This image was taken via my security camera automatically.
When HC was assessing our house, they knocked on the door. I said to them hello and they waved!  :wave:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 02, 2022, 11:16:55 AM
Quote from: formulanone on May 02, 2022, 11:04:27 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 10:54:01 AM
If I were a delivery driver, and the customer took a picture of me by the truck, I'd probably assume the customer was unhappy with my service and was wanting to document my visit–whether as something to send to my boss or complain about on social media or whatever.  It might prompt me to go back up to the door and ask if I could right some wrong but, other than that, I'd assume that was just par for the course.

If you deliver to a residence or business, you are more likely to be recorded than photographed.

Wave to the camera!

It's more likely that someone is recording for verifying arrival of the delivery, and much less concerned with the delivery driver (unless the delivery includes a nasty tossing of the parcel).
FTFY.
I was sending a message to my mother about the delivery of the parcel.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 02, 2022, 12:09:51 PM
Quote from: snowc on May 02, 2022, 11:16:55 AM
Quote from: formulanone on May 02, 2022, 11:04:27 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 10:54:01 AM
If I were a delivery driver, and the customer took a picture of me by the truck, I'd probably assume the customer was unhappy with my service and was wanting to document my visit–whether as something to send to my boss or complain about on social media or whatever.  It might prompt me to go back up to the door and ask if I could right some wrong but, other than that, I'd assume that was just par for the course.

If you deliver to a residence or business, you are more likely to be recorded than photographed.

Wave to the camera!

It's more likely that someone is recording for verifying arrival of the delivery, and much less concerned with the delivery driver (unless the delivery includes a nasty tossing of the parcel).
FTFY.
I was sending a message to my mother about the delivery of the parcel.

No, you fixed it for you.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 01:33:57 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 10:52:08 AM
Being a smug, self-righteous prude.
In my book, smugness is the pinnacle of emotion.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 01:57:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 01:33:57 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 10:52:08 AM
Being a smug, self-righteous prude.
In my book, smugness is the pinnacle of emotion.

I disagree, from what I observe it seems lacking shame or just having a supreme level of self assurance (merited or not) might be more lofty. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 01:57:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 01:33:57 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 10:52:08 AM
Being a smug, self-righteous prude.
In my book, smugness is the pinnacle of emotion.

I disagree, from what I observe it seems lacking shame or just having a supreme level of self assurance (merited or not) might be more lofty.
Narcissism?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 02:18:35 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 01:57:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 01:33:57 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 10:52:08 AM
Being a smug, self-righteous prude.
In my book, smugness is the pinnacle of emotion.

I disagree, from what I observe it seems lacking shame or just having a supreme level of self assurance (merited or not) might be more lofty.
Narcissism?

Sure, that would be a good way of phrasing it.  I've been fascinated by how some people can be totally immune to criticism and truly believe in their own assured greatest. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 02:46:27 PM
Calling people names.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.
Abe.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 03:08:36 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.
Abe.
Yes, Roth?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 03:10:19 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 03:08:36 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.
Abe.
Yes, Roth?
How dare you?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 03:10:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 03:08:36 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.
Abe.
Yes, Roth?

People on here call me Max all the time, it's maddening.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.

Good, because it's overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 03:21:43 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 03:10:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 03:08:36 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.
Abe.
Yes, Roth?

People on here call me Max all the time, it's maddening.
It's a good name for you, Max.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 03:23:10 PM
^^^

But it's almost like my user name is a movie reference most people seemingly don't get. 

Quote from: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.

Good, because it's overrated.

It's hard to be truly scathing off basic name calling. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 03:25:11 PM
Just in case anyone is late to the game...  His name isn't Max Rockatansky.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 18, 2022, 01:22:40 PM
I kind of find of amusing that there has been a lot of people over the years who thought my name is Max Rockatansky. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on May 02, 2022, 03:46:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 03:10:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 03:08:36 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.
Abe.
Yes, Roth?

People on here call me Max all the time, it's maddening.

I figured out a while ago that's not your real name, but I'm not sure what else to call you considering I don't know your real name.

Obviously, my name isn't Webny either (that's not even a real name) but I'm fine with people calling me that because I haven't disclosed my name on the forum other than occasionally to sign PM's.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jlam on May 02, 2022, 03:51:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2022, 03:46:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 03:10:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 03:08:36 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.
Abe.
Yes, Roth?

People on here call me Max all the time, it's maddening.

I figured out a while ago that's not your real name, but I'm not sure what else to call you considering I don't know your real name.
Simply call him "Max Rockatansky."  Nicknames are overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 02, 2022, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 03:23:10 PM
^^^

But it's almost like my user name is a movie reference most people seemingly don't get. 

Quote from: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.

Good, because it's overrated.

It's hard to be truly scathing off basic name calling.
But do you live on Route 9 Sector 26?
Or run the Gribblenation page?  :-D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 03:55:46 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2022, 03:46:55 PM
Obviously, my name isn't Webny either (that's not even a real name)

https://www.ancestry.com.au/name-origin?surname=webny&geo_a=r&geo_s=au&geo_t=au&geo_v=2.0.0&o_iid=41020&o_lid=41020&o_sch=Web+Property

13 hits   :D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 03:59:52 PM
Quote from: jlam on May 02, 2022, 03:51:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2022, 03:46:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 03:10:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 03:08:36 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.
Abe.
Yes, Roth?

People on here call me Max all the time, it's maddening.

I figured out a while ago that's not your real name, but I'm not sure what else to call you considering I don't know your real name.
Simply call him "Max Rockatansky."  Nicknames are overrated.

Amusingly I don't really do much to hide my actual name and I suspect a good portion of tenured users on this forum know it. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 04:02:13 PM
Quote from: snowc on May 02, 2022, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 03:23:10 PM
^^^

But it's almost like my user name is a movie reference most people seemingly don't get. 

Quote from: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.

Good, because it's overrated.

It's hard to be truly scathing off basic name calling.
But do you live on Route 9 Sector 26?
Or run the Gribblenation page?  :-D

Sadly, I do not live on CA 9 nor at Postmile SCR 26.00.  Considering the location of Postmile SCR 26.00 I would find it highly desirable to own property there. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on May 02, 2022, 04:02:22 PM
Quote from: jlam on May 02, 2022, 03:51:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2022, 03:46:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 03:10:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 03:08:36 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.
Abe.
Yes, Roth?

People on here call me Max all the time, it's maddening.

I figured out a while ago that's not your real name, but I'm not sure what else to call you considering I don't know your real name.
Simply call him "Max Rockatansky."  Nicknames are overrated.

Call him Quote Max Rockatansky Unquote?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on May 02, 2022, 04:02:37 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 03:55:46 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2022, 03:46:55 PM
Obviously, my name isn't Webny either (that's not even a real name)

https://www.ancestry.com.au/name-origin?surname=webny&geo_a=r&geo_s=au&geo_t=au&geo_v=2.0.0&o_iid=41020&o_lid=41020&o_sch=Web+Property

13 hits   :D

Well, it might be a last name, but it's not a first name.

Interestingly, I actually do have known ancestors with one of the "similar surnames". There's obviously no connection to my username, but an amusing coincidence nonetheless. :biggrin:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on May 02, 2022, 05:10:49 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2022, 03:46:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 03:10:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 03:08:36 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.
Abe.
Yes, Roth?

People on here call me Max all the time, it's maddening.

I figured out a while ago that's not your real name, but I'm not sure what else to call you considering I don't know your real name.

Obviously, my name isn't Webny either (that's not even a real name) but I'm fine with people calling me that because I haven't disclosed my name on the forum other than occasionally to sign PM's.

Next thing you know, we'll find out that Abe's name isn't actually Abe, or mine isn't actually Takumi. (I haven't even used the handle Takumi anywhere other than this forum in well over a decade. Most places, amusingly, I use interstate366.)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 05:17:25 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 02, 2022, 05:10:49 PMNext thing you know, we'll find out that Abe's name isn't actually Abe, or mine isn't actually Takumi. (I haven't even used the handle Takumi anywhere other than this forum in well over a decade. Most places, amusingly, I use interstate366.)
Anyone could find my real name with a few minutes of Googling, but I just don't feel like using it here.  Or anywhere I'm not required to use it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 05:17:58 PM
live TV
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 05:19:42 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 02, 2022, 05:10:49 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2022, 03:46:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 03:10:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 03:08:36 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.
Abe.
Yes, Roth?

People on here call me Max all the time, it's maddening.

I figured out a while ago that's not your real name, but I'm not sure what else to call you considering I don't know your real name.

Obviously, my name isn't Webny either (that's not even a real name) but I'm fine with people calling me that because I haven't disclosed my name on the forum other than occasionally to sign PM's.

Next thing you know, we'll find out that Abe's name isn't actually Abe, or mine isn't actually Takumi. (I haven't even used the handle Takumi anywhere other than this forum in well over a decade. Most places, amusingly, I use interstate366.)

You aren't signed at 85 MPH by chance?

Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 05:17:25 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 02, 2022, 05:10:49 PMNext thing you know, we'll find out that Abe's name isn't actually Abe, or mine isn't actually Takumi. (I haven't even used the handle Takumi anywhere other than this forum in well over a decade. Most places, amusingly, I use interstate366.)
Anyone could find my real name with a few minutes of Googling, but I just don't feel like using it here.  Or anywhere I'm not required to use it.

Here I was this whole time thinking you were the Sausage King of Chicago.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on May 02, 2022, 05:27:19 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 05:17:25 PM
Anyone could find my real name with a few minutes of Googling, but I just don't feel like using it here.  Or anywhere I'm not required to use it.

Speaking of which (https://www.reddit.com/r/OldSchoolCool/comments/ugpukj/cam_sloane_and_abe_froman_1986/), I also saw this today.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CoreySamson on May 02, 2022, 06:03:53 PM
Weather broadcasting on TV or by any weather website with articles for anything other than your daily forecast (looking at you, Weather Channel) are absurdly overrated.

Instead watch independent Youtuber livestreams, follow meteorologists on social media, and learn a basic understanding of weather radar. You'll be much more informed and better off.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 02, 2022, 06:22:09 PM
It kind of depends on where you are. The Oklahoma City area TV stations all have better Doppler than the NWS does and some fancy software analysis tools that the layperson doesn't have.

As of right now (5:20 PM CDT May 2) there's a severe weather event going on in Oklahoma, so you may want to check out the stream on https://news9.com to see what weather coverage here is like.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kenarmy on May 02, 2022, 06:37:17 PM
US 30 bye.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on May 02, 2022, 07:48:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 05:17:25 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 02, 2022, 05:10:49 PMNext thing you know, we'll find out that Abe's name isn't actually Abe, or mine isn't actually Takumi. (I haven't even used the handle Takumi anywhere other than this forum in well over a decade. Most places, amusingly, I use interstate366.)
Anyone could find my real name with a few minutes of Googling, but I just don't feel like using it here.  Or anywhere I'm not required to use it.

Yeah, mine's fairly easy to find as well, and I think has been mentioned on the forum once or twice in years past. Even on what little social media I have, I use my middle name instead of my last name.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 05:19:42 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 02, 2022, 05:10:49 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2022, 03:46:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 03:10:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 03:08:36 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.
Abe.
Yes, Roth?

People on here call me Max all the time, it's maddening.

I figured out a while ago that's not your real name, but I'm not sure what else to call you considering I don't know your real name.

Obviously, my name isn't Webny either (that's not even a real name) but I'm fine with people calling me that because I haven't disclosed my name on the forum other than occasionally to sign PM's.

Next thing you know, we'll find out that Abe's name isn't actually Abe, or mine isn't actually Takumi. (I haven't even used the handle Takumi anywhere other than this forum in well over a decade. Most places, amusingly, I use interstate366.)

You aren't signed at 85 MPH by chance?

Contrary to popular belief, it's 65.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on May 02, 2022, 09:11:06 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 05:19:42 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 02, 2022, 05:10:49 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2022, 03:46:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 03:10:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 03:08:36 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2022, 03:07:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 02:58:09 PM
No one is calling anybody names in this thread that I'm aware of.
Abe.
Yes, Roth?

People on here call me Max all the time, it's maddening.

I figured out a while ago that's not your real name, but I'm not sure what else to call you considering I don't know your real name.

Obviously, my name isn't Webny either (that's not even a real name) but I'm fine with people calling me that because I haven't disclosed my name on the forum other than occasionally to sign PM's.

Next thing you know, we'll find out that Abe's name isn't actually Abe, or mine isn't actually Takumi. (I haven't even used the handle Takumi anywhere other than this forum in well over a decade. Most places, amusingly, I use interstate366.)

You aren't signed at 85 MPH by chance?

Quote from: abefroman329 on May 02, 2022, 05:17:25 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 02, 2022, 05:10:49 PMNext thing you know, we'll find out that Abe's name isn't actually Abe, or mine isn't actually Takumi. (I haven't even used the handle Takumi anywhere other than this forum in well over a decade. Most places, amusingly, I use interstate366.)
Anyone could find my real name with a few minutes of Googling, but I just don't feel like using it here.  Or anywhere I'm not required to use it.

Here I was this whole time thinking you were the Sausage King of Chicago.

"Devastatingly handsome."
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: gonealookin on May 02, 2022, 09:27:44 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 03:25:11 PM
Just in case anyone is late to the game...  His name isn't Max Rockatansky.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 18, 2022, 01:22:40 PM
I kind of find of amusing that there has been a lot of people over the years who thought my name is Max Rockatansky. 

The funny part from my side of it:  The poster from Fresno made some comment about his wedding and I referred to "Mr. and Mrs. Rockatansky" in my reply.  And somebody here (not him) thought I was serious in using that surname and jumped all over me for it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 09:37:13 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on May 02, 2022, 09:27:44 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 02, 2022, 03:25:11 PM
Just in case anyone is late to the game...  His name isn't Max Rockatansky.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 18, 2022, 01:22:40 PM
I kind of find of amusing that there has been a lot of people over the years who thought my name is Max Rockatansky. 

The funny part from my side of it:  The poster from Fresno made some comment about his wedding and I referred to "Mr. and Mrs. Rockatansky" in my reply.  And somebody here (not him) thought I was serious in using that surname and jumped all over me for it.

There is a bit of irony that my real life wife has same first name (at the time legally Jessie) as Max's wife in the original Mad Max.  I don't think we would be naming a hypothetical child "Sprog"  though.  I should tell her to watch out for the Toecutter gang so I don't have to chase them down in my Challenger (which has a MFP logo on it like the 1973 Falcon XB GT) and almost immediately get shot.  I did want to name the puppy I adopted last year "Dog"  but I got vetoed. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 09:31:12 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 09:37:13 PM
I don't think we would be naming a hypothetical child "Sprog"  though.

It could be, however, a perfectly acceptable nickname for one's child.

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/143624/whence-does-sprog-come
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 09:49:41 AM
Quote from: kkt on May 02, 2022, 09:11:06 PM"Devastatingly handsome."
Yes, that's the one major difference between Mr. Froman and me.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 10:03:12 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 09:31:12 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 02, 2022, 09:37:13 PM
I don't think we would be naming a hypothetical child "Sprog"  though.

It could be, however, a perfectly acceptable nickname for one's child.

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/143624/whence-does-sprog-come

Very in line with the Mad Max movies to name a character something like that.  There a bunch of characters that are literally named as what they are in Mad Max and George Miller movies.  Feral Kid in the Road Warrior also comes to mind.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 10:47:38 AM
Christianity
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 01:23:58 PM
Doritos
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 02:19:53 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 01:23:58 PM
Doritos
They're not my first choice at Subway (that would be Sun Chips), but Doritos Locos Tacos are surprisingly tasty.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 02:23:37 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 02:19:53 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 01:23:58 PM
Doritos
They're not my first choice at Subway (that would be Sun Chips), but Doritos Locos Tacos are surprisingly tasty.

Doritos would be so much more tolerable without the flavorless dust.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 02:26:34 PM
Here's one that might be unpopular.  I don't know.

Having separate men's and women's restrooms is overrated.

For a number of years now (since before most Americans had probably even heard the term transgender), I've been of the opinion that most all public restrooms should just be unisex.  I'm actually rather surprised that the current 'separate but equal' status quo has persisted, basically unchallenged, for so long.

I have a distinct memory (from the ninth grade or so) of using a large public unisex restroom facility in or near Venice (Italy), where each toilet had its own cubicle but the sinks were all out in the common open.  I still remember it, because it struck me at the time how much that approach just made sense.

And I've also been in two situations here in the States where a woman entered the men's room while I was using it, and neither one bothered me.  The first was when my wife and I were having dinner at a Kansas City restaurant and, to use the restroom, one had to go out back, down the stairs, and into a hallway that was shared with other businesses.  While I was doing my business at the urinal there, a lady came in looking for something or someone (I don't remember exactly);  she apologized for the intrusion, I told her it didn't bother me at all, she said she wondered why men's and women's were separated in the first place anyway, and I agreed.  The second time was when I was sitting in a stall at a northern Iowa rest area along I-35.  At one point, I looked down under the cubicle wall and saw high-heeled shoes in the stall next to mine;  it turned out that a gentleman had had double hip replacement and was on his way home, but he had to do a #2 along the way, so his son and daughter-in-law both had to help him out in the process.  I can't remember if my sons were still in the bathroom or not by the time the family went in, but I do know they asked my wife–who was waiting outside–if it would be OK if they all went in together, and she said of course.

https://theconversation.com/how-did-public-bathrooms-get-to-be-separated-by-sex-in-the-first-place-59575
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 7/8 on May 03, 2022, 02:34:12 PM
What's even more ridiculous is when there are two single-occupant washrooms and they're still separated by gender. What difference does it make if only one person is in the washroom at a time? :pan:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 02:39:04 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on May 03, 2022, 02:34:12 PM
What's even more ridiculous is when there are two single-occupant washrooms and they're still separated by gender. What difference does it make if only one person is in the washroom at a time? :pan:

Precisely.  Imagine my surprise when I first researched why that is, only to find out that it's a legal requirement.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on May 03, 2022, 02:40:04 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on May 03, 2022, 02:34:12 PM
What's even more ridiculous is when there are two single-occupant washrooms and they're still separated by gender. What difference does it make if only one person is in the washroom at a time? :pan:

I was once waiting to use the restroom at a very nice gas station, but the man in the men's room was taking forever. So I just used the woman's instead. Two separate rooms, who really cares right? Well, turns out the man behind the counter cared a lot, he came running over and slamming on the door and telling me to get out. Only thing he said was, over and over again, "women's room!!" I just ignored him, he yelled at me again after I got out, still no real explanation besides repeating what the sign said. I just said "who gives a fuck?" I think I threw him the tosser gesture or something rather childish, and walked out.

Still to this day, I do not understand the concern, as I see way more unisex standalone rooms these days than the other way around. But I guess some people are still fixated on the "men are messy" way of thinking that is likely the reason we have gendered standalone rooms.

Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 02:26:34 PM
I have a distinct memory (from the ninth grade or so) of using a large public unisex restroom facility in or near Venice (Italy), where each toilet had its own cubicle but the sinks were all out in the common open.  I still remember it, because it struck me at the time how much that approach just made sense.

I recall the Keflavik Airport in Iceland having a large restroom area with individual stalls (basically rooms, no gaps in the doors!) and a large hand washing area. So much better.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 03, 2022, 02:44:25 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 03, 2022, 02:40:04 PM
Still to this day, I do not understand the concern, as I see way more unisex standalone rooms these days than the other way around. But I guess some people are still fixated on the "men are messy" way of thinking that is likely the reason we have gendered standalone rooms.

Anyone that's ever had a job that involved cleaning restrooms will attest that the women's room is always way grosser, even with the fact that men can miss. (I had to double check cleanliness at the end of the night when I was a restaurant manager.)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 02:50:06 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 03, 2022, 02:40:04 PM
I was once waiting to use the restroom at a very nice gas station, but the man in the men's room was taking forever. So I just used the woman's instead. Two separate rooms, who really cares right? Well, turns out the man behind the counter cared a lot, he came running over and slamming on the door and telling me to get out. Only thing he said was, over and over again, "women's room!!" I just ignored him, he yelled at me again after I got out, still no real explanation besides repeating what the sign said. I just said "who gives a fuck?" I think I threw him the tosser gesture or something rather childish, and walked out.

Still to this day, I do not understand the concern ...

I've used the women's room at a gas station a couple of times.  The worry for me is that a lady will come up and actually need to use it, and then I've effectively taken her spot–which she will immediately realize when I open the door to leave.

I've also been at a gas station that had a long line of ladies waiting to use the facilities but no line of men.  When I came out from doing my business, I mentioned to the ladies that the men's room was a single-stall unit, so someone might as well go ahead in and use it, but nobody did:  they all just waited in line anyway.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 02:55:41 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 02:50:06 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 03, 2022, 02:40:04 PM
I was once waiting to use the restroom at a very nice gas station, but the man in the men's room was taking forever. So I just used the woman's instead. Two separate rooms, who really cares right? Well, turns out the man behind the counter cared a lot, he came running over and slamming on the door and telling me to get out. Only thing he said was, over and over again, "women's room!!" I just ignored him, he yelled at me again after I got out, still no real explanation besides repeating what the sign said. I just said "who gives a fuck?" I think I threw him the tosser gesture or something rather childish, and walked out.

Still to this day, I do not understand the concern ...

I've used the women's room at a gas station a couple of times.  The worry for me is that a lady will come up and actually need to use it, and then I've effectively taken her spot–which she will immediately realize when I open the door to leave.

I've also been at a gas station that had a long line of ladies waiting to use the facilities but no line of men.  When I came out from doing my business, I mentioned to the ladies that the men's room was a single-stall unit, so someone might as well go ahead in and use it, but nobody did:  they all just waited in line anyway.

I've used the single occupant women's restroom a handful of times during similar circumstances.  The only time I recall getting shade about it was from someone who saw me walk out.  I just pointed over at the very loud noises from the emanating from the men's room and they let go of their concern.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 03:00:09 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on May 03, 2022, 02:34:12 PM
What's even more ridiculous is when there are two single-occupant washrooms and they're still separated by gender. What difference does it make if only one person is in the washroom at a time? :pan:
If both (or all) of the single-occupant bathrooms are exactly the same, then it's been illegal to designate them men's or women's bathrooms in Illinois since...either the beginning of this year or the beginning of last year.  Some businesses have gone a step further and labeled them something along the lines of "this one has a urinal" and "this one doesn't."

There was a restaurant/club in DC that had one big bathroom that was just a bunch of stalls and sinks, Ally McBeal-style.  I didn't think it was weird to do my business in the company of women, but it sure was weird to come out and wash my hands while standing next to women.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 03:02:11 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 02:26:34 PMHaving separate men's and women's restrooms is overrated.
It'd be a hell of a lot more efficient if we didn't.  No more long lines for the ladies' room and short lines for the men's room, or vice versa.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 03:05:06 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 03:00:09 PM
If both (or all) of the single-occupant bathrooms are exactly the same, then it's been illegal to designate them men's or women's bathrooms in Illinois since...either the beginning of this year or the beginning of last year.

If you don't mind, would you post some links with information about that?  I'd be quite interested to read up.

Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 03:00:09 PM
I didn't think it was weird to do my business in the company of women, but it sure was weird to come out and wash my hands while standing next to women.

Oh wow, that seems backward to me.  I'm guessing most people would feel more awkward grunting and stinking around members of the opposite sex–visible or otherwise–than they would soaping up at the sink.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 03:09:50 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 02:23:37 PM

Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 02:19:53 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 01:23:58 PM
Doritos

They're not my first choice at Subway (that would be Sun Chips), but Doritos Locos Tacos are surprisingly tasty.

Doritos would be so much more tolerable without the flavorless dust.

(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/d2777ef2-0fd4-41d0-93b2-f50bb4eb2a79_1.b010281625b92e29c6aa8a9d7527d9e2.jpeg)

I do find it odd that the product details on Wal-Mart's website include the description "Bold flavor"–considering the only ingredients are corn, oil, and salt.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 03:19:34 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 03:05:06 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 03:00:09 PM
If both (or all) of the single-occupant bathrooms are exactly the same, then it's been illegal to designate them men's or women's bathrooms in Illinois since...either the beginning of this year or the beginning of last year.

If you don't mind, would you post some links with information about that?  I'd be quite interested to read up.

Sure! https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1521&ChapterID=35

Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 03:05:06 PMOh wow, that seems backward to me.  I'm guessing most people would feel more awkward grunting and stinking around members of the opposite sex–visible or otherwise–than they would soaping up at the sink
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 03:00:09 PMI didn't think it was weird to do my business in the company of women, but it sure was weird to come out and wash my hands while standing next to women.
Most people probably would, but I'm a weirdo *shrug*
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 03, 2022, 03:31:58 PM
Thunderstorms.  :colorful:
(https://i.imgur.com/W8XUNZl.png)
I hate them. I love rain, but NOT thunder.
Also, Power outages.  :cool:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 03:32:57 PM
This emoji: :colorful:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 03:33:17 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 03:19:34 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 03:05:06 PM

Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 03:00:09 PM
If both (or all) of the single-occupant bathrooms are exactly the same, then it's been illegal to designate them men's or women's bathrooms in Illinois since...either the beginning of this year or the beginning of last year.

If you don't mind, would you post some links with information about that?  I'd be quite interested to read up.

Sure! https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1521&ChapterID=35

Thanks for the actual legal code.  I'm also interested in reading about the discussion that led up to the passage of that law.

I do note that it only applies to "a publicly or privately owned sports or entertainment arena, stadium, community or convention hall, special event center, amusement facility or a special event center in a public park" and specifically excludes "hotels, restaurants or schools".  So, for example, your local White Castle isn't bound by that law.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hotdogPi on May 03, 2022, 03:34:08 PM
1. Power outages aren't overrated. If something is overrated, that implies that some people like them. Nobody likes power outages.

2. That font that you use on your phone is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 03:36:39 PM
That font isn't overrated. If something is overrated, that implies that some people like it. Nobody likes that font.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on May 03, 2022, 03:39:36 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 03:36:39 PM
That font isn't overrated. If something is overrated, that implies that some people like it. Nobody likes that font.

I wish that were true, but I follow enough Facebook groups where most posts are screenshots to know that a lot of people use those awful fonts.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 03:41:44 PM
The Princess Bride is overrated.
Austin Powers is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on May 03, 2022, 03:51:38 PM
Regarding the restroom discussion above, I remember in law school, the law library had men's and ladies' rooms on the fourth floor and a men's room on the second floor. Some of the women quite rightly complained. So the university converted the second-floor restroom into a unisex restroom by removing one of the two urinals, one of the two shitters, and the booth walls–there was a university policy that the booth walls had to be removed so that "only one person can use a unisex restroom at a time" (which overlooked that with both a urinal and a shitter in there, two people could use it at the same time). About a month after the conversion to unisex, a second sign appeared on the door: "Remember to Lock Door Behind You Upon Entering" or something similar. I wondered who literally got caught with her pants down to prompt that sign.

Aside from that, I recall using a public restroom in Stockholm that was somewhat similar (at least conceptually, anyway) to what jakeroot and kphoger describe. The toilets were in enclosed spaces with exceptionally tall walls and doors that went all the way down to the floor (unlike American ones that typically allow you to observe that there are feet there) and that had a red or green light on the door to denote occupancy. All the sinks were in one area. It worked fine and my only real objection was to the lack of urinals, which I suppose would need to be off in a separate area. I would always prefer there be urinals if possible because so many people don't raise the seat and then have bad aim (stadium men's rooms are the worst for that).

I'm sure plenty of us have been at stadium or concert venue restrooms when the men's room has almost as many women in it as it does men simply because the lines are shorter.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on May 03, 2022, 03:53:35 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 02:39:04 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on May 03, 2022, 02:34:12 PM
What's even more ridiculous is when there are two single-occupant washrooms and they're still separated by gender. What difference does it make if only one person is in the washroom at a time? :pan:
Precisely.  Imagine my surprise when I first researched why that is, only to find out that it's a legal requirement.

No longer a legal requirement here, and many businesses have changed them to be unisex.  The world has not ended.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on May 03, 2022, 03:56:13 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 03:36:39 PM
That font isn't overrated. If something is overrated, that implies that some people like it. Nobody likes that font.

:clap:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PM
My office has three men's restrooms, three women's restrooms, and one unisex restroom. I've obviously never been in the ladies' rooms, but the main men's room has two urinals and two commodes, and the two smaller rooms at either end of the building have one urinal and one commode.

I don't see the need to differentiate between the sexes (or genders, if you prefer) if they are single-unit facilities. If I have been in a bad way and the men's room was occupied at a gas station or convenience store, and the room was a single-user facility with a lock on the outside door, I've used the women's room. Better than filling my pants.

As for multi-user restrooms, call me old-fashioned, but I'd be very embarrassed to have loud gas and a foul smell accompanying a bowel movement if women were in the same room. I've been married for nearly 27 years and I'm still not comfortable with letting flatulence slip in the presence of my wife. Not long after we were married, I bent over to pick something up and accidentally ripped one, and I've been ashamed of that ever since.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on May 03, 2022, 04:07:55 PM
Quote from: snowc on May 03, 2022, 03:31:58 PM
Thunderstorms.  :colorful:
(image with fugly font deleted)
I hate them. I love rain, but NOT thunder.
Also, Power outages.  :cool:

Love thunderstorms as long as there's no hail or tornados. Used to love sitting on the Lake Mendota shore in Madison or driving up the east shore of Green Bay and watch the thunderstorms come in over the water during the summer.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 04:10:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PM
Better than filling my pants.

Yeah, that's overrated.

Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PM
I've been married for nearly 27 years and I'm still not comfortable with letting flatulence slip in the presence of my wife. Not long after we were married, I bent over to pick something up and accidentally ripped one, and I've been ashamed of that ever since.

Ha!  My wife and I occasionally aim them at each other, and the goal is to make them as loud as possible.  (Sometimes it's hard to remember not to do that when other people are around.)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on May 03, 2022, 04:13:26 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PM
As for multi-user restrooms, call me old-fashioned, but I'd be very embarrassed to have loud gas and a foul smell accompanying a bowel movement if women were in the same room.

Virtually none of the European-style shared restrooms feature any sort of open door system, like those in American restrooms. In fact, you basically have your own room to make as much noise as you want.

Alternatively, if every shit you take is explosive and noisy...perhaps speak to a GI? :-D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 04:23:41 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PMAs for multi-user restrooms, call me old-fashioned,

YOU'RE OLD-FASHIONED

Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PMbut I'd be very embarrassed to have loud gas and a foul smell accompanying a bowel movement if women were in the same room.

I'd be embarrassed if that happened in front of anyone.  It's why I try to poop when I'm at home.

Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PMI've been married for nearly 27 years and I'm still not comfortable with letting flatulence slip in the presence of my wife. Not long after we were married, I bent over to pick something up and accidentally ripped one, and I've been ashamed of that ever since.

(a) sorry, that sounds like your digestive system must be miserable
(b) in all likelihood, you've probably broken wind in your sleep while she was in it at least once.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 04:27:20 PM
My wife grew up with a bunch of brothers.  That being the case farting and over gassy movements has never been an issue.  Marital modesty I'm finding seems to be something a lot of people tend to find overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 04:30:49 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 04:27:20 PM
Martial modesty

That sounds vaguely East Asian.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on May 03, 2022, 04:33:58 PM
Spotify. Never cared for their artist payment structure, and I'm not a fan of streaming music as opposed to owning it in general.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 04:35:14 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 04:30:49 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 04:27:20 PM
Martial modesty

That sounds vaguely East Asian.

You know what, it actually was overrated when I was a kid.  I wanted to learn how to beat up the older kids up that were picking on me when I signed up for Karate.  Screw all that BS about not fighting and all that honor jazz.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 04:36:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 04:35:14 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 04:30:49 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 04:27:20 PM
Martial modesty

That sounds vaguely East Asian.

You know what, it actually was overrated when I was a kid.  I wanted to learn how to beat up the older kids up that were picking on me when I signed up for Karate.  Screw all that BS about not fighting and all that honor jazz.

Oh, and here, I was thinking of a gendarmerie enforcing public indecency laws...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 04:36:57 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 04:35:14 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 04:30:49 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 04:27:20 PM
Martial modesty

That sounds vaguely East Asian.

You know what, it actually was overrated when I was a kid.  I wanted to learn how to beat up the older kids up that were picking on me when I signed up for Karate.  Screw all that BS about not fighting and all that honor jazz.
Hey, it worked for Daniel-san.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 04:39:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 04:36:57 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 04:35:14 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 04:30:49 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 04:27:20 PM
Martial modesty

That sounds vaguely East Asian.

You know what, it actually was overrated when I was a kid.  I wanted to learn how to beat up the older kids up that were picking on me when I signed up for Karate.  Screw all that BS about not fighting and all that honor jazz.
Hey, it worked for Daniel-san.

I am amused by the fact how willing he is to throw down with almost everyone in Kobra Kai.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 03, 2022, 04:41:18 PM
Women are gross in the bathroom and therefore I like that their mess is confined to a different room than the men's restroom.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 04:43:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PM
My office has three men's restrooms, three women's restrooms, and one unisex restroom. I've obviously never been in the ladies' rooms, but ...

That's not obvious to me.  I've been in my office's women's room several times–not necessarily to use the toilet (maybe once), but to help change a light bulb or to grab some paper towels if the men's room ran out, or whatever.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 04:46:17 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 03, 2022, 04:41:18 PM
Women are gross in the bathroom and therefore I like that their mess is confined to a different room than the men's restroom.

Something like this?

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 04:47:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 04:43:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PM
My office has three men's restrooms, three women's restrooms, and one unisex restroom. I've obviously never been in the ladies' rooms, but ...

That's not obvious to me.  I've been in my office's women's room several times–not necessarily to use the toilet (maybe once), but to help change a light bulb or to grab some paper towels if the men's room ran out, or whatever.
I've accidentally walked into the ladies' room numerous times.  These days, if I walk into the men's room and don't immediately see urinals, I freak out and run to confirm I walked into the correct restroom.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 03, 2022, 04:54:54 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 04:47:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 04:43:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PM
My office has three men's restrooms, three women's restrooms, and one unisex restroom. I've obviously never been in the ladies' rooms, but ...

That's not obvious to me.  I've been in my office's women's room several times–not necessarily to use the toilet (maybe once), but to help change a light bulb or to grab some paper towels if the men's room ran out, or whatever.
I've accidentally walked into the ladies' room numerous times.  These days, if I walk into the men's room and don't immediately see urinals, I freak out and run to confirm I walked into the correct restroom.
That's a...talent.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 04:57:50 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 03, 2022, 04:54:54 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 04:47:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 04:43:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PM
My office has three men's restrooms, three women's restrooms, and one unisex restroom. I've obviously never been in the ladies' rooms, but ...

That's not obvious to me.  I've been in my office's women's room several times–not necessarily to use the toilet (maybe once), but to help change a light bulb or to grab some paper towels if the men's room ran out, or whatever.
I've accidentally walked into the ladies' room numerous times.  These days, if I walk into the men's room and don't immediately see urinals, I freak out and run to confirm I walked into the correct restroom.
That's a...talent.
OK, "numerous" isn't correct.  No more than 10 times in my entire life.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 03, 2022, 05:02:28 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 04:57:50 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 03, 2022, 04:54:54 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 04:47:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 04:43:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PM
My office has three men's restrooms, three women's restrooms, and one unisex restroom. I've obviously never been in the ladies' rooms, but ...

That's not obvious to me.  I've been in my office's women's room several times–not necessarily to use the toilet (maybe once), but to help change a light bulb or to grab some paper towels if the men's room ran out, or whatever.
I've accidentally walked into the ladies' room numerous times.  These days, if I walk into the men's room and don't immediately see urinals, I freak out and run to confirm I walked into the correct restroom.
That's a...talent.
OK, "numerous" isn't correct.  No more than 10 times in my entire life.
Um...do you just open random doors to see what's behind them?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 05:20:08 PM
Attending weddings.  I can't think of anything more dull than just hanging out for hours just to celebrate someone else's happiness.  Since I've gotten married myself I usually find myself at someone's wedding at least 3-5 times a year. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 05:21:21 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 03, 2022, 05:02:28 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 04:57:50 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 03, 2022, 04:54:54 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 04:47:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 04:43:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PM
My office has three men's restrooms, three women's restrooms, and one unisex restroom. I've obviously never been in the ladies' rooms, but ...

That's not obvious to me.  I've been in my office's women's room several times–not necessarily to use the toilet (maybe once), but to help change a light bulb or to grab some paper towels if the men's room ran out, or whatever.
I've accidentally walked into the ladies' room numerous times.  These days, if I walk into the men's room and don't immediately see urinals, I freak out and run to confirm I walked into the correct restroom.
That's a...talent.
OK, "numerous" isn't correct.  No more than 10 times in my entire life.
Um...do you just open random doors to see what's behind them?
...no?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 03, 2022, 05:33:50 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 05:21:21 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 03, 2022, 05:02:28 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 04:57:50 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 03, 2022, 04:54:54 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 04:47:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 04:43:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PM
My office has three men's restrooms, three women's restrooms, and one unisex restroom. I've obviously never been in the ladies' rooms, but ...

That's not obvious to me.  I've been in my office's women's room several times–not necessarily to use the toilet (maybe once), but to help change a light bulb or to grab some paper towels if the men's room ran out, or whatever.
I've accidentally walked into the ladies' room numerous times.  These days, if I walk into the men's room and don't immediately see urinals, I freak out and run to confirm I walked into the correct restroom.
That's a...talent.
OK, "numerous" isn't correct.  No more than 10 times in my entire life.
Um...do you just open random doors to see what's behind them?
...no?
But still, 10 times accidentally going into the women's bathroom?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: dlsterner on May 03, 2022, 05:35:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 02:39:04 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on May 03, 2022, 02:34:12 PM
What's even more ridiculous is when there are two single-occupant washrooms and they're still separated by gender. What difference does it make if only one person is in the washroom at a time? :pan:

Precisely.  Imagine my surprise when I first researched why that is, only to find out that it's a legal requirement.

In my neck of the woods, within the past year or so, some places I go to have re-labeled their single-occupant washrooms from men/women to gender-neutral.  Maybe the legal requirements have been relaxed, or they're location dependent.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 05:39:25 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 03, 2022, 05:33:50 PM
But still, 10 times accidentally going into the women's bathroom?[/quote]In 40 years?  That's an average of once every four years.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 03, 2022, 05:41:06 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 05:39:25 PM
That's an average of once every four years.

I don't often agree with Mr. Rothman on a great many topics, but I'm pretty sure I've gone 40 years without accidentally walking into the women's room. And I've been drunk in public many times. :)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 03, 2022, 05:47:03 PM
Houses.
Our house had some damage caused by a thunderstorm wind gust. A piece of the vinyl siding was torn off the roof.
Other than that, it was like a hurricane outside.  :colorful:
Estimated wind speeds of HURRICANE force.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 03, 2022, 05:48:04 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 03, 2022, 05:41:06 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 05:39:25 PM
That's an average of once every four years.

I don't often agree with Mr. Rothman on a great many topics, but I'm pretty sure I've gone 40 years without accidentally walking into the women's room. And I've been drunk in public many times. :)
I mean, I think I may have done so once or twice when I was very, very young.

Ten times?  That's...interesting.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 03, 2022, 05:49:39 PM
Quote from: snowc on May 03, 2022, 05:47:03 PM
Houses.
Our house now has to be assessed for damages caused by a thunderstorm. Our vinyl siding was completely blown.
Estimated wind speeds of HURRICANE force. Now we may have to gut our house and rebuild it.
Well played nature. You destroyed my house.  :clap: :banghead:
Heck yeah.  I hated home ownership.  Going back to renting has been liberating, both psychologically and economically.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 05:50:06 PM
^^^

Considering I'm paying of what my last rent was for my current mortgage I've found the opposite to be true as of late.  But that took a lot of manipulating things at work for a favorable transfer to a lower priced housing market.

Quote from: snowc on May 03, 2022, 05:47:03 PM
Houses.
Our house now has to be assessed for damages caused by a thunderstorm. Our vinyl siding was completely blown.
Estimated wind speeds of HURRICANE force. Now we may have to gut our house and rebuild it.
Well played nature. You destroyed my house.  :clap: :banghead:

This guy had similar views on permanent domicile:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes_Laertius
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 03, 2022, 05:57:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 05:50:06 PM
^^^

Considering I'm paying of what my last rent was for my current mortgage I've found the opposite to be true as of late.  But that took a lot of manipulating things at work for a favorable transfer to a lower priced housing market.

Depends on your market for sure. My buddy is paying only $200 less than I pay for my 15-year mortgage on a 2,000 sq. ft. house.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 03, 2022, 05:57:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 05:50:06 PM
^^^

Considering I'm paying of what my last rent was for my current mortgage I've found the opposite to be true as of late.  But that took a lot of manipulating things at work for a favorable transfer to a lower priced housing market.

Depends on your market for sure. My buddy is paying only $200 less than I pay for my 15-year mortgage on a 2,000 sq. ft. house.

Yes, most people are generally surprised when I tell them Fresno was the cheaper housing market over Orlando (where I lived previously).  I was recently asked what my interest was in managing security at our distribution center in Orange County (California, not Florida) was.  My response was none given the median home price in Orange County is over $1,000,000.  Even doubling my salary wouldn't make up for the disparity in leaving the current housing market I'm in.

Speaking of overrated things.  Being so attached to a single area and being unwilling to move if an opportunity presents itself is incredibly overrated.  So many people I know have made their lives so much harder due to an unwillingness to move.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 06:23:18 PM
Seemingly college educations. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 06:30:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 05:20:08 PM
Attending weddings.  I can't think of anything more dull than just hanging out for hours just to celebrate someone else's happiness.  Since I've gotten married myself I usually find myself at someone's wedding at least 3-5 times a year. 

If I had my own wedding to do over again, I would keep the following things in mind:

— A huge, fancy, flowy wedding dress is overrated.  I'd suggest that my bride wear a less gaudy one.  Maybe even *gasp* something that isn't even white.

— Matching outfits for the bridesmaids and groomsmen are overrated.  Just give them a basic color scheme, perhaps, and leave  it at that.  Or say to the guys, "wear a suit or sport coat that's either black or grey" or "wear a white shirt with a blue tie".  Then there's at least a >0% chance they can actually wear something they already have.

— Unity rituals are overrated.  Like lighting a unity candle or whatever.  Honestly, in the 16 years we've been married, I can count the number of times our parents have been together on one hand.  And we only live 300 miles apart.  And they don't have anything in common.  And they hadn't even met each other before the week of the wedding.  Why did we include that dumb little ritual in our wedding?

— Waiting until after the wedding to do photos is overrated.  It isn't the 1800s:  you can see the bride in her dress before the wedding.  Don't leave all the guests on their own during the reception so you can strike 625 different poses with different permutations of the same 16 people.  Do that ahead of time.



Speaking from experiences of being involved in someone else's wedding:

— Wedding coordinators are overrated.  If I were the groom, I wouldn't want someone else making my decisions for me.  And, as a musician, I don't appreciate being micromanaged.  If the bride and groom can't make their own decisions, then the pastor should.  If the pastor is also incapable of making decisions, then that's just way too many indecisive people in one place.

— The same old processional music is overrated.  There's a whole wealth of suitable classical music out there–and that's not even counting all the good popular music.  Be creative.  Try.

— Writing your own wedding vows is overrated.  All you end up with are vows that are cheesier and yet somehow less meaningful than the good old standard ones.  Chances are you're not a poet, and that fact will just be painfully obvious.  Instead of taking an hour to write your own vows, spend that hour memorizing the normal ones so you can say them without being prompted by the pastor every three words.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 06:31:41 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on May 03, 2022, 05:35:39 PM
In my neck of the woods, within the past year or so, some places I go to have re-labeled their single-occupant washrooms from men/women to gender-neutral.  Maybe the legal requirements have been relaxed, or they're location dependent.

It's definitely location dependent.  These things are generally state laws and/or local ordinances.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 06:32:54 PM
Quote from: snowc on May 03, 2022, 05:47:03 PM
Houses.
Our house now has to be assessed for damages caused by a thunderstorm. Our vinyl siding was completely blown.
Estimated wind speeds of HURRICANE force. Now we may have to gut our house and rebuild it.
Well played nature. You destroyed my house.

What's your preferred alternative, then?  You gonna live in a tent?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 06:37:09 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 06:30:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 05:20:08 PM
Attending weddings.  I can't think of anything more dull than just hanging out for hours just to celebrate someone else's happiness.  Since I've gotten married myself I usually find myself at someone's wedding at least 3-5 times a year. 

If I had my own wedding to do over again, I would keep the following things in mind:

— A huge, fancy, flowy wedding dress is overrated.  I'd suggest that my bride wear a less gaudy one.  Maybe even *gasp* something that isn't even white.

— Matching outfits for the bridesmaids and groomsmen are overrated.  Just give them a basic color scheme, perhaps, and leave  it at that.  Or say to the guys, "wear a suit or sport coat that's either black or grey" or "wear a white shirt with a blue tie".  Then there's at least a >0% chance they can actually wear something they already have.

— Unity rituals are overrated.  Like lighting a unity candle or whatever.  Honestly, in the 16 years we've been married, I can count the number of times our parents have been together on one hand.  And we only live 300 miles apart.  And they don't have anything in common.  And they hadn't even met each other before the week of the wedding.  Why did we include that dumb little ritual in our wedding?

— Waiting until after the wedding to do photos is overrated.  It isn't the 1800s:  you can see the bride in her dress before the wedding.  Don't leave all the guests on their own during the reception so you can strike 625 different poses with different permutations of the same 16 people.  Do that ahead of time.



Speaking from experiences of being involved in someone else's wedding:

— Wedding coordinators are overrated.  If I were the groom, I wouldn't want someone else making my decisions for me.  And, as a musician, I don't appreciate being micromanaged.  If the bride and groom can't make their own decisions, then the pastor should.  If the pastor is also incapable of making decisions, then that's just way too many indecisive people in one place.

— The same old processional music is overrated.  There's a whole wealth of suitable classical music out there–and that's not even counting all the good popular music.  Be creative.  Try.

— Writing your own wedding vows is overrated.  All you end up with are vows that are cheesier and yet somehow less meaningful than the good old standard ones.  Chances are you're not a poet, and that fact will just be painfully obvious.  Instead of taking an hour to write your own vows, spend that hour memorizing the normal ones so you can say them without being prompted by the pastor every three words.

Originally my now wife and I didn't even want to do a wedding.  We wanted to go to the county courthouse and just get everything done there considering how much cheaper it would be.  We planned on maybe having a small impromptu celebration/hike at Yosemite for maybe a dozen or so close friends/family.  My wife ended up getting talked to an actual wedding at the end of the day.  The conclusion I came to it was more of a reason for other people to party than for us to have a good time.  Considering we had over 200 people and came out spending only about $7,000 dollars it could have been so much worse.  If I remember right we did make up $5,400 dollars via cash and gift cards given out at our wedding.  The best cost saver for as hiring a taco truck for $1,400 dollars to cater dinner. 

So I suppose a net operating loss of $1,600 dollars for a wedding was something I could live with.  The engagement ring I bought was pretty close to that price too, but I didn't count that as part of the wedding budget considering it was purchased a year prior.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 06:32:54 PM
Quote from: snowc on May 03, 2022, 05:47:03 PM
Houses.
Our house now has to be assessed for damages caused by a thunderstorm. Our vinyl siding was completely blown.
Estimated wind speeds of HURRICANE force. Now we may have to gut our house and rebuild it.
Well played nature. You destroyed my house.

What's your preferred alternative, then?  You gonna live in a tent?

Worked for two our employees on base in Key West.  They paid $250 a month to live in the campground, but had to switch between the two locations every two weeks.  Way better than paying $1,900 out in town or having to bunk up with 3/4 roommates.  That campground had grills and access to a shower.  The store even had post office boxes available for rent at $10 dollars a month.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 06:42:36 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 06:37:09 PM
Originally my now wife and I didn't even want to do a wedding.  We wanted to go to the county courthouse and just get everything done there considering how much cheaper it would be.  We planned on maybe having a small impromptu celebration/hike at Yosemite for maybe a dozen or so close friends/family.

My sister got married a few years ago on my parents' back porch, and my dad officiated the wedding.  My family of five was in attendance, plus my parents' next-door neighbors.  That was it.  Until about five minutes before the wedding, my sister was still just wearing bicycle shorts and a sports bra.  For the after-wedding music, she had the Google device play a set of songs she had picked out ahead of time.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 06:38:23 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 06:32:54 PM

Quote from: snowc on May 03, 2022, 05:47:03 PM
Houses.
Our house now has to be assessed for damages caused by a thunderstorm. Our vinyl siding was completely blown.
Estimated wind speeds of HURRICANE force. Now we may have to gut our house and rebuild it.
Well played nature. You destroyed my house.

What's your preferred alternative, then?  You gonna live in a tent?

Worked for two our employees on base in Key West.  They paid $250 a month to live in the campground, but had to switch between the two locations every two weeks.  Way better than paying $1,900 out in town or having to bunk up with 3/4 roommates.  That campground had grills and access to a shower.  The store even had post office boxes available for rent at $10 dollars a month.

Oh yeah, I used to work with a guy who lived in a tent in a state park with his girlfriend.  But I'm guessing that's not the alternative |snowc| had in mind when he claimed that houses are overrated.  Especially when thunderstorms strike, I'm curious to know where he'd prefer to be living.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 06:47:54 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 06:38:23 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 06:32:54 PM

Quote from: snowc on May 03, 2022, 05:47:03 PM
Houses.
Our house now has to be assessed for damages caused by a thunderstorm. Our vinyl siding was completely blown.
Estimated wind speeds of HURRICANE force. Now we may have to gut our house and rebuild it.
Well played nature. You destroyed my house.

What's your preferred alternative, then?  You gonna live in a tent?

Worked for two our employees on base in Key West.  They paid $250 a month to live in the campground, but had to switch between the two locations every two weeks.  Way better than paying $1,900 out in town or having to bunk up with 3/4 roommates.  That campground had grills and access to a shower.  The store even had post office boxes available for rent at $10 dollars a month.

Oh yeah, I used to work with a guy who lived in a tent in a state park with his girlfriend.  But I'm guessing that's not the alternative |snowc| had in mind when he claimed that houses are overrated.  Especially when thunderstorms strike, I'm curious to know where he'd prefer to be living.

I suspect a hotel with a Plum Crazy R/T Charger in front of it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 03, 2022, 07:03:58 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 06:42:36 PM
My sister got married a few years ago on my parents' back porch, and my dad officiated the wedding.

I dunno, that's kind of like the judge's son being the traffic cop who writes my speeding ticket. But...eh, doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 07:06:24 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 03, 2022, 05:41:06 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 05:39:25 PM
That's an average of once every four years.

I don't often agree with Mr. Rothman on a great many topics, but I'm pretty sure I've gone 40 years without accidentally walking into the women's room. And I've been drunk in public many times. :)
This includes times where I've started to walk in the direction of the ladies' room and caught myself before opening the door or walking in.

Anyway, pedantry.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 03, 2022, 07:15:42 PM
The game store that my friends used to run was required to have two single-use bathrooms by city code. They started out as labeled "men" and "women", but over time LGBT folks started becoming a large portion of their customer base, and some of them had a talk with the owners about the situation. So they changed the signs on both doors to this, and it worked well for the rest of the time the store was open.

(https://www.ubuy.com.tr/productimg/?image=aHR0cHM6Ly9tLm1lZGlhLWFtYXpvbi5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL0kvNTFBckduN3d1alMuX0FDX1NMMTQ5OV8uanBn.jpg)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: SSOWorld on May 03, 2022, 08:06:42 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 03:02:11 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 02:26:34 PMHaving separate men's and women's restrooms is overrated.
It'd be a hell of a lot more efficient if we didn't.  No more long lines for the ladies' room and short lines for the men's room, or vice versa.
But, the children!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on May 03, 2022, 08:15:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 04:47:05 PMI've accidentally walked into the ladies' room numerous times.  These days, if I walk into the men's room and don't immediately see urinals, I freak out and run to confirm I walked into the correct restroom.

I have done this quite a few times (maybe even more than 10), invariably without alcohol involvement.  Sometimes I get disoriented; sometimes I misinterpret building layouts; sometimes the signing is unclear, hard to see, so self-consciously clever as to be hard to interpret, or in a language where the words for men and women are virtually the same (I can't remember which way bay/bayan goes in Turkish); and sometimes restroom locations are flipped across floors (e.g., common entry but with women on the right on one floor and on the left on the next).

I dislike the peekaboo stall dividers used in the US.  European ones are generally of sturdier construction, offer a better guarantee of privacy, and are typically equipped much better for feminine hygienic needs (e.g., a receptacle next to the toilet for used tampons or sanitary napkins).  And I consider urinals suitable for use in desperation only.  Unless I have all clothing off between waist and mid-thigh, my bladder will not void fully.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 08:44:57 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on May 03, 2022, 08:06:42 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 03:02:11 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 02:26:34 PMHaving separate men's and women's restrooms is overrated.
It'd be a hell of a lot more efficient if we didn't.  No more long lines for the ladies' room and short lines for the men's room, or vice versa.
But, the children!

Children are overrated. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 08:48:31 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on May 03, 2022, 08:06:42 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 03:02:11 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 02:26:34 PMHaving separate men's and women's restrooms is overrated.
It'd be a hell of a lot more efficient if we didn't.  No more long lines for the ladies' room and short lines for the men's room, or vice versa.
But, the children!
I wonder if the Helen Lovejoys of the world know that fathers bring their young daughters into the men's room with them.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 03, 2022, 08:55:20 PM
I remember how agitating it was having to wait for two dudes in front of me to take long dumps in a one-room bathroom while the women's room sat unused the entire time.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on May 03, 2022, 09:09:58 PM
Working in a few bowling centers when I was younger, I had to go into the women's room nearly every shift to clean and check or add toilet paper or towels.  I'd always yell in first.  Some women, especially during league nights, didn't care if I went in there when they were in there.

Never been in my office's women's room, although at one point we had a detailed blueprint of sorts out on the breakroom wall showing the floor's configuration.  Both men and women were surprised that, for some reason, the bathrooms are designed where the men's room has 2 doors to go thru; the women's room has 1 door.

Last time I went into the wrong sex's bathroom accidentally was at a restaurant. I *really had to go*...went into a stall and realized after someone else came in that the someone else was a woman.  Not much I could do at that point. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 09:46:13 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 08:48:31 PM

Quote from: SSOWorld on May 03, 2022, 08:06:42 PM

Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 03:02:11 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 02:26:34 PM
Having separate men's and women's restrooms is overrated.

It'd be a hell of a lot more efficient if we didn't.  No more long lines for the ladies' room and short lines for the men's room, or vice versa.

But, the children!

I wonder if the Helen Lovejoys of the world know that fathers bring their young daughters into the men's room with them.

To be fair, they do have their father with them in that situation.  (I am a father who has taken his young daughter into the men's room.  Heck, I even took her into a big common shower room at a seminary once.  I'm not exactly a prude when it comes to nudity.)

But honestly, I think the risk of harm to the children is overrated here anyway.  Something like 90% of sexual abuse victims are not strangers:  they are friends, family, or acquaintances of the offender.  And are we really pretending there isn't a large subset of male pedophiles who abuse boys in addition to or instead of girls?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on May 03, 2022, 11:47:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 05:20:08 PM
Attending weddings.  I can't think of anything more dull than just hanging out for hours just to celebrate someone else's happiness.  Since I've gotten married myself I usually find myself at someone's wedding at least 3-5 times a year.

I definitely don't have much interest in attending other couple's weddings unless I myself am in a relationship where things are moving in the right direction, or if I'm already married. Otherwise, it honestly just sounds depressing.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 12:08:00 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 03, 2022, 11:47:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 03, 2022, 05:20:08 PM
Attending weddings.  I can't think of anything more dull than just hanging out for hours just to celebrate someone else's happiness.  Since I've gotten married myself I usually find myself at someone's wedding at least 3-5 times a year.

I definitely don't have much interest in attending other couple's weddings unless I myself am in a relationship where things are moving in the right direction, or if I'm already married. Otherwise, it honestly just sounds depressing.

For me the scenario even now has several drawbacks:

-  I find it difficult to maintain extended "small talk."
-  Long ceremonies are something I find incredibly boring, even worse if they are dragged out by religious traditions. 
-  Most wedding ceremonies go late into the night, usually I'm in bed by 9:30-10 PM.
-  I can dance, but suck at it.  My wife tends to nitpick over my dancing which I think it's a misguided attempt to get me to loosen up.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 04, 2022, 07:55:18 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 06:32:54 PM
Quote from: snowc on May 03, 2022, 05:47:03 PM
Houses.
Our house now has to be assessed for damages caused by a thunderstorm. Our vinyl siding was completely blown.
Estimated wind speeds of HURRICANE force. Now we may have to gut our house and rebuild it.
Well played nature. You destroyed my house.

What's your preferred alternative, then?  You gonna live in a tent?
It was just a piece of the siding that ripped, so no need for the tent.  :D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 07:59:19 AM
Quote from: snowc on May 04, 2022, 07:55:18 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 06:32:54 PM
Quote from: snowc on May 03, 2022, 05:47:03 PM
Houses.
Our house now has to be assessed for damages caused by a thunderstorm. Our vinyl siding was completely blown.
Estimated wind speeds of HURRICANE force. Now we may have to gut our house and rebuild it.
Well played nature. You destroyed my house.

What's your preferred alternative, then?  You gonna live in a tent?
It was just a piece of the siding that ripped, so no need for the tent.  :D

So no need for your overrated post?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on May 04, 2022, 08:04:01 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 04:23:41 PM
....

Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PMbut I'd be very embarrassed to have loud gas and a foul smell accompanying a bowel movement if women were in the same room.

I'd be embarrassed if that happened in front of anyone.  It's why I try to poop when I'm at home.

....

You sure your name's not Finch?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_khvWHplL7w
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 09:41:49 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 12:08:00 AM
For me the scenario even now has several drawbacks:

-  Long ceremonies are something I find incredibly boring, even worse if they are dragged out by religious traditions.

See, I'm the opposite.

If you expect us all to buy you a gift, dress up fancy, come in from out of town, book a hotel, and/or whatever–then the event you invited us to had darned-well better last more than twenty minutes.  If not, then the message I'm getting is that you expect your wedding to be more important to us than it apparently is to you.  If I had to buy new dress clothes for my children, take a day off work, drive 600 miles in the rain, pretend to think it's cute when the flower girl refuses to walk down the aisle, and suffer through your sad and sappy attempt at personalized wedding vows–then, for the sake of all that, at least have the decency to make the reason for it all last longer than a half-hour sitcom on Netflix.

On the other hand, if all you want is a short and simple exchange of vows with no drawn-out ceremony, then why did you bother sending out hundreds of invitations to cousins you haven't seen in two decades and acquaintances you're only kinda sorta friends with, making everyone in your bridal party buy gaudy dresses they'll never wear again, trying multiple cake samples from a professional baker, stressing out a young mother by choosing her two-year-old terror to be a ring bearer, securing a restaurant party room for the rehearsal dinner, and all the other rigmarole that comes with a fancy affair?  If you want something short and sweet, then just do it in someone's back yard, or rent a neighborhood park pavilion, and only invite the people closest to you–letting everyone else off the hook.

*whew*
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 09:44:58 AM
Quote from: snowc on May 03, 2022, 05:47:03 PM
Our vinyl siding was completely blown.

Now we may have to gut our house and rebuild it.

You destroyed my house.

Quote from: snowc on May 04, 2022, 07:55:18 AM
It was just a piece of the siding that ripped

So......  It wasn't 'completely blown.  And you certainly won't have to 'rebuild' your house.  And it wasn't 'destroyed'.

Were you just joking the first time, or were you trying to make your situation seem more dramatic than it actually was in order to feel important?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 04, 2022, 09:47:32 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 09:44:58 AM
Quote from: snowc on May 03, 2022, 05:47:03 PM
Our vinyl siding was completely blown.

Now we may have to gut our house and rebuild it.

You destroyed my house.

Quote from: snowc on May 04, 2022, 07:55:18 AM
It was just a piece of the siding that ripped

So......  It wasn't 'completely blown.  And you certainly won't have to 'rebuild' your house.  And it wasn't 'destroyed'.

Were you just joking the first time, or were you trying to make your situation seem more dramatic than it actually was in order to feel important?
At the time of writing, I was distraught due to the wind speeds. I heard something peel off the house. Sorry, I will correct.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 09:49:42 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 04, 2022, 08:04:01 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 03, 2022, 04:23:41 PM
....

Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PMbut I'd be very embarrassed to have loud gas and a foul smell accompanying a bowel movement if women were in the same room.

I'd be embarrassed if that happened in front of anyone.  It's why I try to poop when I'm at home.

....

You sure your name's not Finch?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_khvWHplL7w
Ha - no, they don't call me Shitbreak, but I can definitely see where he was coming from.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on May 04, 2022, 10:05:00 AM
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/51101704055/in/album-72157633107485419/
Aesthetic artwork on freeway walls is starting to get way too out of control IMO.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 10:08:19 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 09:46:13 PMTo be fair, they do have their father with them in that situation.  (I am a father who has taken his young daughter into the men's room.  Heck, I even took her into a big common shower room at a seminary once.  I'm not exactly a prude when it comes to nudity.)
Oh, I wasn't even thinking of, you know, a pedophile exposing himself (I agree that the danger of that is grossly overstated); I was just thinking of the girls accidentally seeing a penis or two.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 10:11:38 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 04, 2022, 10:05:00 AM
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/51101704055/in/album-72157633107485419/
Aesthetic artwork on freeway walls is starting to get way too out of control IMO.

I heard that there was some flak when it was added to Kellogg on the east side of Wichita.

https://goo.gl/maps/MNQA4BWqiK3Cgp8c9
https://goo.gl/maps/hk2dAnhD57n1Cwpj6
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 10:13:20 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 10:08:19 AM

Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 09:46:13 PM
To be fair, they do have their father with them in that situation.  (I am a father who has taken his young daughter into the men's room.  Heck, I even took her into a big common shower room at a seminary once.  I'm not exactly a prude when it comes to nudity.)

Oh, I wasn't even thinking of, you know, a pedophile exposing himself (I agree that the danger of that is grossly overstated); I was just thinking of the girls accidentally seeing a penis or two.

My opinion is that kids seeing the opposite sex's "naughty bits" every so often during childhood might actually make them less likely to seek it out later in their adolescence.  Demystify the body.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 10:20:38 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 10:13:20 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 10:08:19 AM

Quote from: kphoger on May 03, 2022, 09:46:13 PM
To be fair, they do have their father with them in that situation.  (I am a father who has taken his young daughter into the men's room.  Heck, I even took her into a big common shower room at a seminary once.  I'm not exactly a prude when it comes to nudity.)

Oh, I wasn't even thinking of, you know, a pedophile exposing himself (I agree that the danger of that is grossly overstated); I was just thinking of the girls accidentally seeing a penis or two.

My opinion is that kids seeing the opposite sex's "naughty bits" every so often during childhood might actually make them less likely to seek it out later in their adolescence.  Demystify the body.
I...don't know that I see the connection between the two (assuming you're talking about teen sex), but I agree that it helps not to raise your children to think there's something "naughty" about their "bits."
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 10:31:31 AM
Long hair on women is overrated.

How common is this situation, I wonder?  Man and woman fall in love, get married.  Man wants wife to look 'feminine', wife wants to look attractive to husband, therefore wife grows her hair long.  A couple of years later, wife wants to change up her haircut and is considering cutting it short, but husband shoots down the idea.  Six years pass, husband realizes he's tired of pulling wife's hairs out of the shower drain and off the bathroom counter and out of his mouth when they're spooning in bed at night, but husband doesn't say anything because that might come across as complaining.  Two more years pass, wife again considers cutting her hair short, and this time husband is totally on board.  Wife gets her hair cut short, and both of them are super happy with it:  easier to care for, less annoying all around.

But...  then...  four more years pass...  and...  wife misses the more 'feminine' look she used to have with long hair...  considers letting it grow out again...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 10:41:37 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 10:31:31 AM
Long hair on women is overrated.

How common is this situation, I wonder?  Man and woman fall in love, get married.  Man wants wife to look 'feminine', wife wants to look attractive to husband, therefore wife grows her hair long.  A couple of years later, wife wants to change up her haircut and is considering cutting it short, but husband shoots down the idea.  Six years pass, husband realizes he's tired of pulling wife's hairs out of the shower drain and off the bathroom counter and out of his mouth when they're spooning in bed at night, but husband doesn't say anything because that might come across as complaining.  Two more years pass, wife again considers cutting her hair short, and this time husband is totally on board.  Wife gets her hair cut short, and both of them are super happy with it:  easier to care for, less annoying all around.

But...  then...  four more years pass...  and...  wife misses the more 'feminine' look she used to have with long hair...  considers letting it grow out again...

I would agree to an extent.  There was a girl I dated about 11-13 years ago that had short blonde hair.  She definitely didn't have any issues appearing feminine with short hair.  If anything when she grew it out it made her look more normalized, which I would say was from my subjective stand point necessarily better.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 04, 2022, 10:46:14 AM
I like long hair and so does my wife, so it's essentially non-negotiable in our relationship. The problem is that I'll rarely notice if it's 3 inches shorter for the 1-2 times a year she gets a haircut.

The hassles are minor; after all, the dog sheds way more than the rest of the family put together, and we humans were gifted hands and opposable thumbs...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 04, 2022, 10:50:09 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 04, 2022, 10:05:00 AM
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/51101704055/in/album-72157633107485419/
Aesthetic artwork on freeway walls is starting to get way too out of control IMO.
Wait, you don't like this style as well?
https://goo.gl/maps/mLDNvaWidmJMbmp7A
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Big John on May 04, 2022, 11:01:59 AM
Wisconsin does this a lot: https://goo.gl/maps/qe7NgwzNat2cvQUA7
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 11:08:14 AM
Quote from: Big John on May 04, 2022, 11:01:59 AM
Wisconsin does this a lot: https://goo.gl/maps/qe7NgwzNat2cvQUA7

Pranked!  It's a GSV of the pavement.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on May 04, 2022, 11:12:31 AM
Quote from: snowc on May 04, 2022, 10:50:09 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 04, 2022, 10:05:00 AM
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/51101704055/in/album-72157633107485419/
Aesthetic artwork on freeway walls is starting to get way too out of control IMO.
Wait, you don't like this style as well?
https://goo.gl/maps/mLDNvaWidmJMbmp7A

Its too overkill.  Just like all these weird colors that women wear on their toes.  I think its great, but at the same time its overdone.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: zachary_amaryllis on May 04, 2022, 11:13:28 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 30, 2022, 09:35:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 30, 2022, 09:32:42 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 30, 2022, 06:29:41 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 30, 2022, 06:26:41 PM
In addition, my home is blurred due to privacy reasons set forth by my landlord.  :D

That just makes it more suspicious. You're probably safer having it visible just like every other house, and nobody would think twice about your house even when they do see it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Quote from: Rothman on April 30, 2022, 07:20:07 PM
We're getting photographed constantly nowadays.  Just embrace it.

no

The nice thing is now it's not entirely weird to wear a face mask in a place that has video surveillance.
We need a photo of Scott now.

Prepare to be disappointed. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28690.msg2719841#msg2719841)

well, as long as we're doing that..
https://imgur.com/lA5FmqT (https://imgur.com/lA5FmqT)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 04, 2022, 11:35:27 AM
Quote from: Big John on May 04, 2022, 11:01:59 AM
Wisconsin does this a lot: https://goo.gl/maps/5Byk8K6z8qrZBHW86 (https://goo.gl/maps/5Byk8K6z8qrZBHW86)
FTFY, the link you provided was showing the road, not the bridge.  :D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 04, 2022, 11:36:59 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 11:08:14 AM
Quote from: Big John on May 04, 2022, 11:01:59 AM
Wisconsin does this a lot: https://goo.gl/maps/qe7NgwzNat2cvQUA7

Pranked!  It's a GSV of the pavement.
I fixed it down below.
Quote from: snowc on May 04, 2022, 11:35:27 AM
Quote from: Big John on May 04, 2022, 11:01:59 AM
Wisconsin does this a lot: https://goo.gl/maps/5Byk8K6z8qrZBHW86 (https://goo.gl/maps/5Byk8K6z8qrZBHW86)
FTFY, the link you provided was showing the road, not the bridge.  :D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 04, 2022, 11:40:32 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 04, 2022, 11:12:31 AM
Quote from: snowc on May 04, 2022, 10:50:09 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 04, 2022, 10:05:00 AM
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/51101704055/in/album-72157633107485419/
Aesthetic artwork on freeway walls is starting to get way too out of control IMO.
Wait, you don't like this style as well?
https://goo.gl/maps/mLDNvaWidmJMbmp7A

Its too overkill.  Just like all these weird colors that women wear on their toes.  I think its great, but at the same time its overdone.
On the flip side, NY's bridges (2012-present) are more grotesque.
https://goo.gl/maps/aoUcuWgXH3qz1p4N6 (https://goo.gl/maps/aoUcuWgXH3qz1p4N6)
And the 50s doesnt look too good either.
https://goo.gl/maps/ChtMpQbamr1fKfCN9 (https://goo.gl/maps/ChtMpQbamr1fKfCN9)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on May 04, 2022, 12:59:53 PM
Funerals are overrated. I know that they are more for the survivors than the deceased, but my preference would be to just be put in the ground ASAP and let people get on with their lives without feeling a need to come to the visitation or the funeral service. When my dad died, I didn't really even want a service of any kind. I just wanted to turn his remains over to the funeral home and let them bury him. But my brother wanted to do something because my dad had siblings and that generation expects some kind of memorial service. So we just had a simple graveside service.

Home ownership is overrated. The expenses of repairs, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc., can be burdensome. If the water heater goes out, you don't have to replace it. Your landlord does.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 04, 2022, 01:01:45 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 04, 2022, 12:59:53 PM
Home ownership is overrated. The expenses of repairs, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc., can be burdensome. If the water heater goes out, you don't have to replace it. Your landlord does.

But you don't gain wealth if you rent. The amount of equity I've earned on my house over the last five years could buy me a whole shit ton of water heaters.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 04, 2022, 01:01:45 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 04, 2022, 12:59:53 PM
Home ownership is overrated. The expenses of repairs, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc., can be burdensome. If the water heater goes out, you don't have to replace it. Your landlord does.

But you don't gain wealth if rent. The amount of equity I've earned on my house over the last five years could buy me a whole shit ton of water heaters.
You also don't have to beg your landlord to replace the water heater, and you don't have to worry about your rent going up as a result of replacing the water heater.  Oh, and the new water heater will make your house worth slightly more.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 04, 2022, 01:07:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 04, 2022, 12:59:53 PM
Funerals are overrated. I know that they are more for the survivors than the deceased, but my preference would be to just be put in the ground ASAP and let people get on with their lives without feeling a need to come to the visitation or the funeral service. When my dad died, I didn't really even want a service of any kind. I just wanted to turn his remains over to the funeral home and let them bury him. But my brother wanted to do something because my dad had siblings and that generation expects some kind of memorial service. So we just had a simple graveside service.

Home ownership is overrated. The expenses of repairs, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc., can be burdensome. If the water heater goes out, you don't have to replace it. Your landlord does.
Oh, the stories my mother has from Appalachian funerals.  Food everywhere, people sitting around for hours and hours...

My grandfather used to just grumble, "We have to go over there and sit with that body."
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 01:18:39 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 04, 2022, 01:07:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 04, 2022, 12:59:53 PM
Funerals are overrated. I know that they are more for the survivors than the deceased, but my preference would be to just be put in the ground ASAP and let people get on with their lives without feeling a need to come to the visitation or the funeral service. When my dad died, I didn't really even want a service of any kind. I just wanted to turn his remains over to the funeral home and let them bury him. But my brother wanted to do something because my dad had siblings and that generation expects some kind of memorial service. So we just had a simple graveside service.

Home ownership is overrated. The expenses of repairs, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc., can be burdensome. If the water heater goes out, you don't have to replace it. Your landlord does.
Oh, the stories my mother has from Appalachian funerals.  Food everywhere, people sitting around for hours and hours...

My grandfather used to just grumble, "We have to go over there and sit with that body."

My Mom was insistent on not having a funeral and being cremated.  She didn't like the whole idea of dragging people to gather over a corpse and having to pay for the occasion out of pocket.  We did a very small service against her wishes but had her cremated like she wanted (which is way more affordable than a burial).  I actually spread her ashes out on CA 1 in San Simeon since she wanted to go back to Big Sur and Hearst Castle near the end of her life.  She was really insistent upon not having ashes around due to as she put it "not wanting to be a damn trophy on a mantle."

Speaking of "the body"  I'm the one who did the identification with a Hernando County official.  For some reason they left me alone in the room at the morgue for several minutes, that seemed incredibly odd at the time.   
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:21:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 04, 2022, 01:07:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 04, 2022, 12:59:53 PM
Funerals are overrated. I know that they are more for the survivors than the deceased, but my preference would be to just be put in the ground ASAP and let people get on with their lives without feeling a need to come to the visitation or the funeral service. When my dad died, I didn't really even want a service of any kind. I just wanted to turn his remains over to the funeral home and let them bury him. But my brother wanted to do something because my dad had siblings and that generation expects some kind of memorial service. So we just had a simple graveside service.

Home ownership is overrated. The expenses of repairs, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc., can be burdensome. If the water heater goes out, you don't have to replace it. Your landlord does.
Oh, the stories my mother has from Appalachian funerals.  Food everywhere, people sitting around for hours and hours...

My grandfather used to just grumble, "We have to go over there and sit with that body."
It'd be easier to list the cultures that DON'T have funerals that include food everywhere and people sitting around for hours.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:22:29 PM
I'm definitely on board with being cremated.  There's just so much cool stuff they can do with the remains these days, like getting a tattoo with the remains in the ink.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 04, 2022, 01:29:55 PM
(https://storage13.openstreetcam.org/files/photo/2022/5/4/proc/5166793_36bfd8bedca19bb49ecbf7ce61301b75.jpg)
Long drive thru lines.  :colorful:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 01:31:11 PM
Easily bypassed in my circumstances by going into the restaurant.  Especially effective at getting your food faster at In-n-Out Burger.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 01:33:54 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:06:55 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 04, 2022, 01:01:45 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on May 04, 2022, 12:59:53 PM
Home ownership is overrated. The expenses of repairs, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc., can be burdensome. If the water heater goes out, you don't have to replace it. Your landlord does.

But you don't gain wealth if rent. The amount of equity I've earned on my house over the last five years could buy me a whole shit ton of water heaters.

You also don't have to beg your landlord to replace the water heater, and you don't have to worry about your rent going up as a result of replacing the water heater.  Oh, and the new water heater will make your house worth slightly more.

You also have to deal with it yourself if there's any problem with any work done on your house.  If you rent, then that's between your landlord and whoever is responsible for the issue.  Like the time our front porch decorative pillar was damaged by a roofer who decided to save time and just climb it monkey-style instead of getting the ladder (and not realizing that I understand Spanish and heard through the window the conversation between him and his boss).  Or the time the water heater hose that was installed just a year or two earlier was deteriorating and needed to be replaced with a hard line.  Or the time our landlords had to figure out who was paying for a replacement property line fence.  Or the time they had to hash it out with the city about tearing up our back yard.  Etc, etc, etc.

We rent, always have.  We've had the water heater replaced.  Just gave the landlords a call, and they sent out their handyman to check it out.  We didn't have to find a plumber, we didn't have to find a water heater.  Just had to be home when he showed up.  Homeownership is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 01:34:48 PM
Quote from: snowc on May 04, 2022, 01:29:55 PM
Long drive thru lines.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 01:31:11 PM
Easily bypassed in my circumstances by going into the restaurant.

Agreed on both counts.  The drive-through is overrated.  Just park and go inside.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: oscar on May 04, 2022, 02:03:01 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 04, 2022, 12:59:53 PM
Funerals are overrated. I know that they are more for the survivors than the deceased, but my preference would be to just be put in the ground ASAP and let people get on with their lives without feeling a need to come to the visitation or the funeral service. When my dad died, I didn't really even want a service of any kind. I just wanted to turn his remains over to the funeral home and let them bury him. But my brother wanted to do something because my dad had siblings and that generation expects some kind of memorial service. So we just had a simple graveside service.

My family is all over the map on funerals/cremation. My branch is pro-cremation. Others insist on funerals and burials soon after death. For such a widely scattered family, it's hard to gather family members from both coasts, on short notice, at a funeral in a hard-to-reach Midwestern location (especially in mid-winter). My mother's cremation, followed by a memorial service several weeks later, let me and one of my sisters return to our east coast homes right away, then fly back to the west coast for the memorial service.

Quote from: snowc on May 04, 2022, 01:29:55 PM
Long drive thru lines.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 01:31:11 PM
Easily bypassed in my circumstances by going into the restaurant.

Not so easy, if the restaurant is like Carl's Jr./Hardee's, giving such strong priority to drive-thru customers that going inside usually means a much longer wait than in the drive-thru line (but the drive-thru lines can still be long). 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on May 04, 2022, 02:13:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 10:11:38 AMI heard that there was some flak when it was added to Kellogg on the east side of Wichita.

https://goo.gl/maps/MNQA4BWqiK3Cgp8c9

https://goo.gl/maps/hk2dAnhD57n1Cwpj6

The "Journey is the Reward" reliefs did attract some media attention and comment when the Oliver interchange opened, but the big controversy with Kellogg artwork actually occurred with the downtown flyover, for which limestone blade-of-wheat statues were originally proposed that many likened to twin artichokes.  The city ultimately picked a landform sculpture:

Main Street gateway (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6798279,-97.3381668,3a,75y,176.07h,90.6t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1skWRKlfNmuz6eYu9p0RTdDQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DkWRKlfNmuz6eYu9p0RTdDQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D181.15001%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192)

Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:22:29 PMI'm definitely on board with being cremated.  There's just so much cool stuff they can do with the remains these days, like getting a tattoo with the remains in the ink.

I think it was in 2017 that cremation overtook burial as the most popular form of disposition of a body after death in the US.  A large part of the reason is that it is significantly cheaper.

Quote from: hbelkins on May 04, 2022, 12:59:53 PMFunerals are overrated. I know that they are more for the survivors than the deceased, but my preference would be to just be put in the ground ASAP and let people get on with their lives without feeling a need to come to the visitation or the funeral service. When my dad died, I didn't really even want a service of any kind. I just wanted to turn his remains over to the funeral home and let them bury him. But my brother wanted to do something because my dad had siblings and that generation expects some kind of memorial service. So we just had a simple graveside service.

I have known people who chose not to have funerals, memorial services, cemetery burials or inurnments, or obituaries published for their dead.  It is the last-listed that does not sit well with me--it creates a stumbling block for genealogists, especially in states where death records are closed to public access.

In the mid-2010's, there was a fashion for photo exhibits, slideshows, and even artifact displays at funerals.  Those seem to have become less popular--the last funeral I attended in person did not have them--and, frankly, I think that is a good thing, because organizing such things places far too much pressure on the survivors immediately following a death.

Quote from: hbelkins on May 04, 2022, 12:59:53 PMHome ownership is overrated. The expenses of repairs, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc., can be burdensome. If the water heater goes out, you don't have to replace it. Your landlord does.

To my mind, the biggest advantage of homeownership is guaranteed tenure in one's dwelling.  The listed expenses can be equally or more burdensome when rolled into a rent payment, and there is the risk of having to move on short notice if the lease isn't renewed or antisocial neighbors move into a different part of the same property.  Landlords can also be adept at evading their responsibilities, especially when dealing with low-income renters.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 02:23:46 PM
We live in rented house, not an apartment.  Our landlords are fantastic, and we never have to worry that they won't have something fixed appropriately.  They've refused to raise our rent the whole 12 years we've lived in the house.  Several years ago, they began to get out of the rental house business and moved to Utah, but they refuse to sell their last two houses (ours included) as long as the current tenants (us) are still living there.  They've specifically told us that our rent check pays the mortgage on their house in Utah, so they have no real financial motivation to sell our from under us anyway.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 04, 2022, 02:58:03 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 02:23:46 PM
We live in rented house, not an apartment.  Our landlords are fantastic, and we never have to worry that they won't have something fixed appropriately.  They've refused to raise our rent the whole 12 years we've lived in the house.  Several years ago, they began to get out of the rental house business and moved to Utah, but they refuse to sell their last two houses (ours included) as long as the current tenants (us) are still living there.  They've specifically told us that our rent check pays the mortgage on their house in Utah, so they have no real financial motivation to sell our from under us anyway.
Same here, renting for 23 years. Our landlord changed twice in 2018. Went up from $425 to $800! Now its up to $900!
The last landlord we were renting under was from South Dakota!  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 04, 2022, 03:04:30 PM
I would love my mortgage to be $900.  X-(
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 03:05:57 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 04, 2022, 03:04:30 PM
I would love my mortgage to be $900.  X-(

$1,100 for us, split between me and my wife.  That $1,100 I was paying in rent the first year I moved back to California was a kick in the junk every month.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 04, 2022, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 04, 2022, 03:04:30 PM
I would love my mortgage to be $900.  X-(
As Alps would say
Quote from: Alps on September 15, 2021, 11:32:22 PM
you don't understand because you aren't in his shoes of his neighborhood
Beggars can't be choosers. Landlords are landlords. They can charge the amount they want, such as a house next door to us is now up for rent (poss. for sale). It is $1600 a month.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 04, 2022, 03:09:13 PM
Quote from: snowc on May 04, 2022, 03:07:48 PM
It is $1600 a month.

Shoot, I'd love my mortgage to be $1600 a month.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 03:19:24 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 01:33:54 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:06:55 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 04, 2022, 01:01:45 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on May 04, 2022, 12:59:53 PM
Home ownership is overrated. The expenses of repairs, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc., can be burdensome. If the water heater goes out, you don't have to replace it. Your landlord does.

But you don't gain wealth if rent. The amount of equity I've earned on my house over the last five years could buy me a whole shit ton of water heaters.

You also don't have to beg your landlord to replace the water heater, and you don't have to worry about your rent going up as a result of replacing the water heater.  Oh, and the new water heater will make your house worth slightly more.

You also have to deal with it yourself if there's any problem with any work done on your house.  If you rent, then that's between your landlord and whoever is responsible for the issue.  Like the time our front porch decorative pillar was damaged by a roofer who decided to save time and just climb it monkey-style instead of getting the ladder (and not realizing that I understand Spanish and heard through the window the conversation between him and his boss).  Or the time the water heater hose that was installed just a year or two earlier was deteriorating and needed to be replaced with a hard line.  Or the time our landlords had to figure out who was paying for a replacement property line fence.  Or the time they had to hash it out with the city about tearing up our back yard.  Etc, etc, etc.

We rent, always have.  We've had the water heater replaced.  Just gave the landlords a call, and they sent out their handyman to check it out.  We didn't have to find a plumber, we didn't have to find a water heater.  Just had to be home when he showed up.  Homeownership is overrated.
With the exception of literally one landlord, that has not been my experience with renting.  It has always been like pulling teeth to get things fixed, and on two separate occasions, I've had landlords refuse to renew the lease because the people I was living with at the time and I complained about various things not working properly one too many times.

Oh, and recently, we had some repairs done as a result of a roof leak, and the guy who came out to remove the dehumidifiers and fans damaged our staircase wall while bringing them out.  Getting the company to come out and fix it required one phone call and texting some photos of the damage.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 7/8 on May 04, 2022, 03:32:38 PM
Quote from: snowc on May 04, 2022, 03:07:48 PM
As Alps would say
Quote from: Alps on September 15, 2021, 11:32:22 PM
you don't understand because you aren't in his shoes of his neighborhood

Thank you for bringing back one of my favourite forum quotes. :sombrero:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: snowc on May 04, 2022, 03:40:20 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on May 04, 2022, 03:32:38 PM
Quote from: snowc on May 04, 2022, 03:07:48 PM
As Alps would say
Quote from: Alps on September 15, 2021, 11:32:22 PM
you don't understand because you aren't in his shoes of his neighborhood

Thank you for bringing back one of my favourite forum quotes. :sombrero:
Your welcome!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 04, 2022, 03:43:22 PM
I own a house simply because at some point I want the payments to end. I don't want to keep throwing money down the hole until the day I die.

That, and when you buy, you're more or less locked in at that price for the long term. My mortgage payment is $1033, while the recent spike in housing prices has the rent for a house this size in this neighborhood in the $1200-$1300 range. And it is the nature of rents to usually keep going up, not down.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 03:51:47 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 03:19:24 PM
With the exception of literally one landlord, that has not been my experience with renting.  It has always been like pulling teeth to get things fixed, and on two separate occasions, I've had landlords refuse to renew the lease because the people I was living with at the time and I complained about various things not working properly one too many times.

I suppose now would be a good time to mention that the reason we moved into this house is that our former landlord was terrible and actually went bankrupt.  At that house, the oven (came with the house) had its heating element go out, and he stopped returning our calls requesting a new oven.  We even went so far as to submit our request in writing via certified mail so that, when he still didn't respond, we could legally stop paying rent due to negligence on his part–which we also notified him of via certified mail.  Shortly thereafter, the neighbor across the street told us while chatting in the street that our landlord had filed for bankruptcy.  So we started looking for a new house.  By the time the bank called me, telling me to start sending our rent checks to them instead, I was able to confidently tell them that we were no longer paying rent at all anyway (that took the bank agent by surprise!).  He was already a farmer and a handyman, and he had taken on renting out houses in the city to make some additional income.  I get the impression that he had stretched himself too thin, and caring about the houses he was renting would only cost him more money than he had in the bank.

It was hard to find a landlord that (a) was OK with my wife operating a home daycare out of the house and (b) didn't require references ahead of time.  Heck, that's why we were in that house to begin with:  the landlord had said "I don't care what you do in the house, so long as you pay your rent on time".  (We're pretty sure it had a been a crack house when the former tenant lived there, and the landlord later told us she had never paid a single month's rent at all.  And we cleaned up the insanely terrible mess inside in lieu of our first month's rent.)

But then we found our current house.  The landlords are very family-oriented Mormons, and they're perfectly fine with the whole home daycare thing.  When we saw the house that first time, we all sat on the empty living room floor chatting for like two hours.  They treat us right.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 04, 2022, 04:15:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:21:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 04, 2022, 01:07:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 04, 2022, 12:59:53 PM
Funerals are overrated. I know that they are more for the survivors than the deceased, but my preference would be to just be put in the ground ASAP and let people get on with their lives without feeling a need to come to the visitation or the funeral service. When my dad died, I didn't really even want a service of any kind. I just wanted to turn his remains over to the funeral home and let them bury him. But my brother wanted to do something because my dad had siblings and that generation expects some kind of memorial service. So we just had a simple graveside service.

Home ownership is overrated. The expenses of repairs, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc., can be burdensome. If the water heater goes out, you don't have to replace it. Your landlord does.
Oh, the stories my mother has from Appalachian funerals.  Food everywhere, people sitting around for hours and hours...

My grandfather used to just grumble, "We have to go over there and sit with that body."
It'd be easier to list the cultures that DON'T have funerals that include food everywhere and people sitting around for hours.
In a house?  With the corpse?

24/7 for longer than you'd think?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 04, 2022, 04:19:07 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 03:51:47 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 03:19:24 PM
With the exception of literally one landlord, that has not been my experience with renting.  It has always been like pulling teeth to get things fixed, and on two separate occasions, I've had landlords refuse to renew the lease because the people I was living with at the time and I complained about various things not working properly one too many times.

I suppose now would be a good time to mention that the reason we moved into this house is that our former landlord was terrible and actually went bankrupt.  At that house, the oven (came with the house) had its heating element go out, and he stopped returning our calls requesting a new oven.  We even went so far as to submit our request in writing via certified mail so that, when he still didn't respond, we could legally stop paying rent due to negligence on his part–which we also notified him of via certified mail.  Shortly thereafter, the neighbor across the street told us while chatting in the street that our landlord had filed for bankruptcy.  So we started looking for a new house.  By the time the bank called me, telling me to start sending our rent checks to them instead, I was able to confidently tell them that we were no longer paying rent at all anyway (that took the bank agent by surprise!).  He was already a farmer and a handyman, and he had taken on renting out houses in the city to make some additional income.  I get the impression that he had stretched himself too thin, and caring about the houses he was renting would only cost him more money than he had in the bank.

It was hard to find a landlord that (a) was OK with my wife operating a home daycare out of the house and (b) didn't require references ahead of time.  Heck, that's why we were in that house to begin with:  the landlord had said "I don't care what you do in the house, so long as you pay your rent on time".  (We're pretty sure it had a been a crack house when the former tenant lived there, and the landlord later told us she had never paid a single month's rent at all.  And we cleaned up the insanely terrible mess inside in lieu of our first month's rent.)

But then we found our current house.  The landlords are very family-oriented Mormons, and they're perfectly fine with the whole home daycare thing.  When we saw the house that first time, we all sat on the empty living room floor chatting for like two hours.  They treat us right.
Makes me wonder about liability and zoning in that situation.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 04:26:32 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 04, 2022, 04:19:07 PM
Makes me wonder about liability and zoning in that situation.

1.  Zoning?  Home daycares are, by very definition, operated in residential areas.

2.  The daycare is licensed with the state.  No issues with that.

3.  Liability wouldn't be our issue, would it?  It would be the landlords'.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 04:28:09 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 04, 2022, 03:43:22 PM
I own a house simply because at some point I want the payments to end. I don't want to keep throwing money down the hole until the day I die.

And see, if we could just manage to not have any major car repairs for a couple of years in a row, we could probably pay off the last of my wife's student loan debt–and have zero debt.  We would then have no car payment, no house payment, no nothing.  I wouldn't want to then have take out a huge home loan and live under that.

But that's just us, I guess.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 04, 2022, 04:28:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 04:26:32 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 04, 2022, 04:19:07 PM
Makes me wonder about liability and zoning in that situation.

1.  Zoning?  Home daycares are, by very definition, operated in residential areas.

2.  The daycare is licensed with the state.  No issues with that.

3.  Liability wouldn't be our issue, would it?  It would be the landlords'.

1) You'd be surprised how finely tuned zoning regs can be when it comes to residential zoning and commercial restrictions.  I used to be on a Zoning Board of Appeals.

2) Ok.

3) What is the landlord's problem eventually becomes the tenant's problem.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on May 04, 2022, 04:56:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:22:29 PM
I'm definitely on board with being cremated.  There's just so much cool stuff they can do with the remains these days, like getting a tattoo with the remains in the ink.

That sounds like an awful idea. I would never want that.  :thumbdown:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 04:58:41 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 04, 2022, 04:56:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:22:29 PM
I'm definitely on board with being cremated.  There's just so much cool stuff they can do with the remains these days, like getting a tattoo with the remains in the ink.

That sounds like an awful idea. I would never want that.  :thumbdown:
OK, but what about the other 39 ideas on this list?

https://www.joincake.com/blog/what-to-do-with-cremation-ashes/
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 05:00:13 PM
Anyway, the one reason I don't want to be buried is the fact that cemeteries are a tremendous space of land.  And apparently my mom's mom didn't want to be interred in a mausoleum because she thought it would be like spending eternity in a filing cabinet, and I can't argue with that.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on May 04, 2022, 05:42:33 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 04, 2022, 04:56:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:22:29 PM
I'm definitely on board with being cremated.  There's just so much cool stuff they can do with the remains these days, like getting a tattoo with the remains in the ink.

That sounds like an awful idea. I would never want that.  :thumbdown:

Do you have any tattoos?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on May 04, 2022, 05:46:39 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 04, 2022, 01:01:45 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 04, 2022, 12:59:53 PM
Home ownership is overrated. The expenses of repairs, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc., can be burdensome. If the water heater goes out, you don't have to replace it. Your landlord does.

But you don't gain wealth if rent. The amount of equity I've earned on my house over the last five years could buy me a whole shit ton of water heaters.
You also don't have to beg your landlord to replace the water heater, and you don't have to worry about your rent going up as a result of replacing the water heater.  Oh, and the new water heater will make your house worth slightly more.

My house has gone up by 50% in the six years since I bought it.  Can't get that from renting.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 05:48:44 PM
Quote from: kkt on May 04, 2022, 05:46:39 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 04, 2022, 01:01:45 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 04, 2022, 12:59:53 PM
Home ownership is overrated. The expenses of repairs, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc., can be burdensome. If the water heater goes out, you don't have to replace it. Your landlord does.

But you don't gain wealth if rent. The amount of equity I've earned on my house over the last five years could buy me a whole shit ton of water heaters.
You also don't have to beg your landlord to replace the water heater, and you don't have to worry about your rent going up as a result of replacing the water heater.  Oh, and the new water heater will make your house worth slightly more.

My house has gone up by 50% in the six years since I bought it.  Can't get that from renting.

The best thing that could have happened to us was a new school going in across the street.  Few things tend to racket up property value like access to a new school. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on May 04, 2022, 05:56:00 PM
We don't have a new school, but we've got a high school with a pretty good reputation 10 minutes walk away.

And a new light rail station.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on May 04, 2022, 05:56:43 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 04:58:41 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 04, 2022, 04:56:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:22:29 PM
I'm definitely on board with being cremated.  There's just so much cool stuff they can do with the remains these days, like getting a tattoo with the remains in the ink.

That sounds like an awful idea. I would never want that.  :thumbdown:
OK, but what about the other 39 ideas on this list?

https://www.joincake.com/blog/what-to-do-with-cremation-ashes/

For my dog I went with #7. He's on the mantle in my living room now.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 04, 2022, 09:41:16 PM
I already know what I want done when I'm gone, which cremation is part of that plan (my concern is more who will still be there to carry it out when I'm gone given my extremely small family, and my brother and I have no plans to have kids)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: SSOWorld on May 04, 2022, 09:51:52 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 04, 2022, 01:31:11 PM
Easily bypassed in my circumstances by going into the restaurant.  Especially effective at getting your food faster at In-n-Out Burger.
Nowadays - Culvers too.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on May 04, 2022, 11:23:50 PM
Quote from: snowc on May 04, 2022, 02:58:03 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2022, 02:23:46 PM
We live in rented house, not an apartment.  Our landlords are fantastic, and we never have to worry that they won't have something fixed appropriately.  They've refused to raise our rent the whole 12 years we've lived in the house.  Several years ago, they began to get out of the rental house business and moved to Utah, but they refuse to sell their last two houses (ours included) as long as the current tenants (us) are still living there.  They've specifically told us that our rent check pays the mortgage on their house in Utah, so they have no real financial motivation to sell our from under us anyway.
Same here, renting for 23 years. Our landlord changed twice in 2018. Went up from $425 to $800! Now its up to $900!
The last landlord we were renting under was from South Dakota!  :rolleyes:

I've rented for 15 years now, too.  Reasonable rent rate and a very nice location. :cool:

Best of all - - The CITY mows the lawn in the park that is a very short walk behind the back door!   (I have no use nor patience for mowing big lawns every week or two!)

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 05, 2022, 10:34:50 AM
Here are some food-related items that are just fine, but stilloverrated:

— Takis
— flat-leaf parsley
— ribs
— non-iodized salt
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on May 05, 2022, 10:42:34 AM
The different types of M & M candies. Bring back the Peanut and Plain line exclusively.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 05, 2022, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 05, 2022, 10:42:34 AM
The different types of M & M candies. Bring back the Peanut and Plain line exclusively.
You should try combining the dark chocolate M&Ms and the peanut butter M&Ms before you make statements like that one.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 05, 2022, 11:02:35 AM
The mint M&Ms are fantastic, I pick up a pack whenever I see them.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: zachary_amaryllis on May 05, 2022, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 05, 2022, 10:34:50 AM
Here are some food-related items that are just fine, but stilloverrated:

— Takis
— flat-leaf parsley
— ribs
— non-iodized salt

I like takis... but they don't like me. after i consume them, the inside of my mouth is torn to hamburger..

and there's another issue that develops several hours later.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on May 05, 2022, 01:10:26 PM
To my mind, non-iodized salt is not for eating--it is for mixing with clean water to make a salt solution for irrigating sinuses.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on May 05, 2022, 03:36:48 PM
My mother did not want a funeral. She made that known long before she got sick with the illness that eventually killed her. She didn't want an open casket but was silent on the matter of visitation.

Her mother insisted on seeing her (my mom was an only child), so we compromised. We allowed Grandmother to have time privately before the casket was closed. We had a visitation for the family and friends and a small graveside service.

My dad's mother died six years later. All her children had moved down near Louisville, and of course with her being elderly, they looked at things in a more traditional fashion. We had a six-hour visitation at the funeral home because of the number of out-of-town people who would have to drive three hours here, and then three hours back home. It was agonizing. Then there was the traditional funeral service.

I want to specify what happens to my remains, but the details of the service are best left to others, because those are more for the survivors than the deceased, anyway.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 05, 2022, 03:57:31 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 05, 2022, 10:42:34 AM
The different types of M & M candies. Bring back the Peanut and Plain line exclusively.

The Crispy ones are good, if you can find them.

Quote from: J N Winkler on May 05, 2022, 01:10:26 PM
To my mind, non-iodized salt is not for eating--it is for mixing with clean water to make a salt solution for irrigating sinuses.

Non-iodized salt is for cooking. It can add a chemical taste when combined with other flavors that non-iodized salt doesn't. The iodine isn't stable at higher temperatures anyway, and can degrade, so it doesn't actually have any health benefits in that context anyway. And the typical American diet usually contains enough iodine without iodized salt anyway, so it's kind of questionable what benefit even having it is.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 05, 2022, 04:02:18 PM
I never said iodized salt isn't overrated–just that non-iodized is.   :D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: english si on May 05, 2022, 06:40:11 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 03, 2022, 03:51:38 PMAside from that, I recall using a public restroom in Stockholm that was somewhat similar (at least conceptually, anyway) to what jakeroot and kphoger describe. The toilets were in enclosed spaces with exceptionally tall walls and doors that went all the way down to the floor (unlike American ones that typically allow you to observe that there are feet there) and that had a red or green light on the door to denote occupancy.
That's a bit of an extreme example (though you certainly want lockable, fully-enclosed, stalls in a unisex loo to stop anyone peeking in), but a common complaint of Europeans visiting America is that there isn't enough enclosure in the stall - compared to traditional European stalls in single-gender bathrooms, the gap at the bottom is too big, the doors often have gaps at the sides, and both doors and wall are often too short.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 03, 2022, 04:13:26 PMIn fact, you basically have your own room to make as much noise as you want.
I wouldn't go that far - it's typically the same thin plywood used. You don't get seen, but you will be heard if you are noisy.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 05, 2022, 06:45:17 PM
Quote from: english si on May 05, 2022, 06:40:11 PM
(though you certainly want lockable, fully-enclosed, stalls in a unisex loo to stop anyone peeking in)

I used to think that but, honestly, I'm over it now.  Two reasons:

1.  Peeking in is just as embarrassing for the peeker who has been discovered as it is for the peekee.  Rule #1 in the men's room is to never look at a single human being until you're back out the door again, after all.

2.  Peeking would lose its thrill after, what? two times.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on May 05, 2022, 06:54:31 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 05, 2022, 06:45:17 PM
2.  Peeking would lose its thrill after, what? two times.

Yeah, but I don't really want to be some middleschooler's 1st or 2nd time peeking.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on May 05, 2022, 11:49:00 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 04, 2022, 05:42:33 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 04, 2022, 04:56:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:22:29 PM
I'm definitely on board with being cremated.  There's just so much cool stuff they can do with the remains these days, like getting a tattoo with the remains in the ink.
That sounds like an awful idea. I would never want that.  :thumbdown:
Do you have any tattoos?

No, and I never will.

Come to think of it, tattoos in general are overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on May 06, 2022, 08:41:04 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 05, 2022, 11:49:00 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 04, 2022, 05:42:33 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 04, 2022, 04:56:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:22:29 PM
I'm definitely on board with being cremated.  There's just so much cool stuff they can do with the remains these days, like getting a tattoo with the remains in the ink.
That sounds like an awful idea. I would never want that.  :thumbdown:
Do you have any tattoos?

No, and I never will.

Come to think of it, tattoos in general are overrated.
And usually unattractive.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 06, 2022, 09:25:41 AM
Quote from: thspfc on May 06, 2022, 08:41:04 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 05, 2022, 11:49:00 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 04, 2022, 05:42:33 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 04, 2022, 04:56:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:22:29 PM
I'm definitely on board with being cremated.  There's just so much cool stuff they can do with the remains these days, like getting a tattoo with the remains in the ink.
That sounds like an awful idea. I would never want that.  :thumbdown:
Do you have any tattoos?

No, and I never will.

Come to think of it, tattoos in general are overrated.
And usually unattractive.

Too many tats when I was dating usually was a good indicator that the opposite party had some screws loose.   
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 06, 2022, 10:10:21 AM
Tasteful and well-drawn tattoos are good.

Then there was the time my mother-in-law's friend agreed to do a tattoo on my wife, freehand.  She showed him a sketch of the basic idea she wanted.  Big mistake.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 06, 2022, 10:27:23 AM
When I was getting my tattoo (my son's name on my left forearm), I searched high and wide before finding an artist I was comfortable with.  In particular, I didn't want to go to one of those shops with books of samples you could choose from.  Didn't like the idea of telling the artist that I wanted a #37 on my left buttock or whatever.  Anyway, I did find an artist I like, and, while I haven't decided on another tattoo just yet, so I can't go back just yet, I've recommended her to everyone who asks for a recommendation.

Maybe I'm more comfortable with the idea of getting a tattoo with someone's remains in the ink because I have one.  Maybe it was because of the time my primary physician looked at my tattoo and said "That's great!  You take him with you wherever you go!"  Who knows.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 06, 2022, 10:37:35 AM
Fast internet speeds are overrated.

Most people will do just fine with the lower-tier packages and a good router (speaking from experience with Cox, at least).  If you're connecting multiple devices at the same time and have lag issues, then try upgrading your router or changing its band allocations first.  Generally, unless you're a hardcore gamer or need better upload speeds, you shouldn't have a problem.  Even streaming video on multiple devices can be easily handled these days by middle-of-the-road internet packages.

(My family has Cox's lowest currently offered package of 50 Mb/s download speed, but we have a DOCSIS 3.1 dual-band gateway with 32x8 channel bonding.  It's fairly common in our house for one person to be streaming video on Netflix, another person to be going live on Facebook, and another person to be browsing the web at the same time.)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on May 06, 2022, 10:53:46 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 05, 2022, 11:49:00 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 04, 2022, 05:42:33 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 04, 2022, 04:56:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:22:29 PM
I'm definitely on board with being cremated.  There's just so much cool stuff they can do with the remains these days, like getting a tattoo with the remains in the ink.
That sounds like an awful idea. I would never want that.  :thumbdown:
Do you have any tattoos?

No, and I never will.

Come to think of it, tattoos in general are overrated.

One guy I know was a "never will" guy, but that changed after his dad passed away and he wanted something to memorialize him.

He's also been a guy that tends to be slow to warming up to the current age.  He used to bitch about text messaging, for example. Phone calls are good enough.  Once he got an unlimited text message plan, you couldn't get him to stop text messaging multiple messages in a row. 

So, while I don't have one either, maybe I will someday. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 06, 2022, 11:22:22 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2022, 10:37:35 AM
Fast internet speeds are overrated.

Most people will do just fine with the lower-tier packages and a good router (speaking from experience with Cox, at least).  If you're connecting multiple devices at the same time and have lag issues, then try upgrading your router or changing its band allocations first.  Generally, unless you're a hardcore gamer or need better upload speeds, you shouldn't have a problem.  Even streaming video on multiple devices can be easily handled these days by middle-of-the-road internet packages.

(My family has Cox's lowest currently offered package of 50 Mb/s download speed, but we have a DOCSIS 3.1 dual-band gateway with 32x8 channel bonding.  It's fairly common in our house for one person to be streaming video on Netflix, another person to be going live on Facebook, and another person to be browsing the web at the same time.)
I agree that many of the internet speeds advertised are well beyond the needs of your average nuclear family, but when your home desktop is just the thing that runs the Thin Client Operating System for your job, and your employer mandates that you're on video for every call you're on, and your wife's job involves being on video chat for 5-6 hours a day, AND your wife streams video while doing work that doesn't require her to be on video chat...well, you benefit from higher internet speeds.

Anyway, I'll tell you what's underrated: Mesh wifi.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 06, 2022, 11:38:04 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 06, 2022, 11:22:22 AM
Anyway, I'll tell you what's underrated: Mesh wifi.

Mesh has has been a boon in our household; streaming services rarely drop anymore.

Only drawback is that my wi-fi printer can't understand it, but it's easy enough to just swap between the networks.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 06, 2022, 11:40:49 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2022, 10:37:35 AM
Fast internet speeds are overrated.

Most people will do just fine with the lower-tier packages and a good router (speaking from experience with Cox, at least).  If you're connecting multiple devices at the same time and have lag issues, then try upgrading your router or changing its band allocations first.  Generally, unless you're a hardcore gamer or need better upload speeds, you shouldn't have a problem.  Even streaming video on multiple devices can be easily handled these days by middle-of-the-road internet packages.

(My family has Cox's lowest currently offered package of 50 Mb/s download speed, but we have a DOCSIS 3.1 dual-band gateway with 32x8 channel bonding.  It's fairly common in our house for one person to be streaming video on Netflix, another person to be going live on Facebook, and another person to be browsing the web at the same time.)

I didn't appreciate fast speed Internet until I started uploading my photos online as a back up and posting on Gribblenation.  Some of the blog uploads took forever until I upped my internet speed, saves me a ton of time.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 06, 2022, 12:03:29 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 06, 2022, 11:40:49 AM

Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2022, 10:37:35 AM
Fast internet speeds are overrated.

Most people will do just fine with the lower-tier packages and a good router (speaking from experience with Cox, at least).  If you're connecting multiple devices at the same time and have lag issues, then try upgrading your router or changing its band allocations first.  Generally, unless you're a hardcore gamer or need better upload speeds, you shouldn't have a problem.  Even streaming video on multiple devices can be easily handled these days by middle-of-the-road internet packages.

I didn't appreciate fast speed Internet until I started uploading my photos online as a back up and posting on Gribblenation.  Some of the blog uploads took forever until I upped my internet speed, saves me a ton of time.

Yes, I'm glad I don't have to upload a lot of data.  Why do internet packages have such low upload speeds, anyway?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 06, 2022, 12:12:34 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2022, 12:03:29 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 06, 2022, 11:40:49 AM

Quote from: kphoger on May 06, 2022, 10:37:35 AM
Fast internet speeds are overrated.

Most people will do just fine with the lower-tier packages and a good router (speaking from experience with Cox, at least).  If you're connecting multiple devices at the same time and have lag issues, then try upgrading your router or changing its band allocations first.  Generally, unless you're a hardcore gamer or need better upload speeds, you shouldn't have a problem.  Even streaming video on multiple devices can be easily handled these days by middle-of-the-road internet packages.

I didn't appreciate fast speed Internet until I started uploading my photos online as a back up and posting on Gribblenation.  Some of the blog uploads took forever until I upped my internet speed, saves me a ton of time.

Yes, I'm glad I don't have to upload a lot of data.  Why do internet packages have such low upload speeds, anyway?

Got me, makes about as much sense to me as a cell phone minutes plan.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on May 06, 2022, 01:50:24 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 06, 2022, 10:53:46 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 05, 2022, 11:49:00 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 04, 2022, 05:42:33 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 04, 2022, 04:56:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 04, 2022, 01:22:29 PM
I'm definitely on board with being cremated.  There's just so much cool stuff they can do with the remains these days, like getting a tattoo with the remains in the ink.
That sounds like an awful idea. I would never want that.  :thumbdown:
Do you have any tattoos?

No, and I never will.

Come to think of it, tattoos in general are overrated.

One guy I know was a "never will" guy, but that changed after his dad passed away and he wanted something to memorialize him.

He's also been a guy that tends to be slow to warming up to the current age.  He used to bitch about text messaging, for example. Phone calls are good enough.  Once he got an unlimited text message plan, you couldn't get him to stop text messaging multiple messages in a row. 

So, while I don't have one either, maybe I will someday.

I know I will always be a "never will" on that. I'm all for memorializing loved ones, but I'll find another way.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on May 06, 2022, 02:02:38 PM
For many users, low latency is more important than gross bandwidth.

I have a hard line connection for my computer to eliminate wifi-related issues.  We do practice spectrum allocation--we avoid the 2.4 GHz channels the neighbors use and try to distribute devices evenly among the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz networks.  To ensure that reception is consistently good in the 5 GHz band, we default to a high channel number (the signal is broadcast with more power).

Generally speaking, low upload speeds for residential customers result from bandwidth being allocated to meet far greater demand in the download direction.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: zachary_amaryllis on May 06, 2022, 02:07:48 PM
all of my tats were 'inside' work, so they're ugly as sin. one of the, says 'FAT PRIDE' on the inside of my left arm.

DF was i thinking...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 06, 2022, 02:15:17 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 06, 2022, 02:02:38 PM
For many users, low latency is more important than gross bandwidth.

And latency can be caused by so many factors.

I can't count how many times I've had someone complain that they're not getting the full (300, 1000, however many Mb/s) speed they're subscribed to, even when hard-wired into the router–yet, when I diagnose their connection remotely, it shows their ethernet port is throttling at 100 Mb/s.  Well, that's either a modem problem, a router problem, or an ethernet cord problem–not an ISP problem.

Or my friend who texted me a couple of months ago about slow internet in his house.  He was unable to run a command prompt ping test on his laptop while hard-wired into the modem (in the basement under the stairs), but I recommended he upgrade his modem and router anyway due to their age and the fact that they were almost first-gen DOCSIS 3.0 technology.  When he did so, he still had super slow internet, and only then did he mention that all his wiring is sheet-rocked over and can't even be inspected.  I'm sure he has some ancient splitter somewhere with ancient crimped-on fittings and ancient RG59 cables coming out of it and who knows what else, but replacing those parts would require cutting sheet rock.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on May 06, 2022, 02:38:14 PM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on May 06, 2022, 02:07:48 PM
all of my tats were 'inside' work, so they're ugly as sin. one of the, says 'FAT PRIDE' on the inside of my left arm.

DF was i thinking...

That may well be the most innocuous prison ink I've ever heard of.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 06, 2022, 02:40:04 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 06, 2022, 02:38:14 PM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on May 06, 2022, 02:07:48 PM
all of my tats were 'inside' work, so they're ugly as sin. one of the, says 'FAT PRIDE' on the inside of my left arm.

DF was i thinking...

That may well be the most innocuous prison ink I've ever heard of.

You saying it's better than a teardrop?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 06, 2022, 02:41:39 PM
All I have is a US Route 66 shield tattoo on my left arm that was based off the 1926 US Route shield design.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 06, 2022, 03:21:59 PM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on May 06, 2022, 02:07:48 PM
all of my tats were 'inside' work, so they're ugly as sin. one of the, says 'FAT PRIDE' on the inside of my left arm.

DF was i thinking...
Fresno Pride?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 06, 2022, 03:37:25 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 06, 2022, 03:21:59 PM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on May 06, 2022, 02:07:48 PM
all of my tats were 'inside' work, so they're ugly as sin. one of the, says 'FAT PRIDE' on the inside of my left arm.

DF was i thinking...
Fresno Pride?

FAT Free Wifi (which actually is a thing)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 09, 2022, 11:23:15 AM
Eric Clapton
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on May 09, 2022, 11:30:17 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 09, 2022, 11:23:15 AM
Eric Clapton

In terms of what? I wouldn't call him, in general, overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kurumi on May 10, 2022, 01:41:50 PM
Duty-free shopping gets a lot of hype
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 10, 2022, 02:17:11 PM
Quote from: kurumi on May 10, 2022, 01:41:50 PM
Duty-free shopping gets a lot of hype

Please purchase perfume and cigarettes in unmanageable containers before leaving.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 10, 2022, 02:21:50 PM
Quote from: formulanone on May 10, 2022, 02:17:11 PM
Quote from: kurumi on May 10, 2022, 01:41:50 PM
Duty-free shopping gets a lot of hype

Please purchase perfume and cigarettes in unmanageable containers before leaving.
If you're suggesting that those giant Marlboro containers that stored several cartons and were in the shape of a Marlboro box were anything but awesome, I won't hear it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on May 10, 2022, 02:26:27 PM
Florida is getting that way.  Our hierarchy is telling big investors and developers to use our farm land and woodlands for bull dozing and creating new communities. Heck with the fact that our roads are outdated and having alternative means of transportation is not in our states vocabulary, we end up with traffic nightmares in many places especially I-4.

You think that other states mistakes on overdevelopment would scare our present government here to stop, but no! We have some other states residuals happening right now in our state, that ruined other states especially high traffic volumes on major roads.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 10, 2022, 02:32:48 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 10, 2022, 02:21:50 PM
Quote from: formulanone on May 10, 2022, 02:17:11 PM
Quote from: kurumi on May 10, 2022, 01:41:50 PM
Duty-free shopping gets a lot of hype

Please purchase perfume and cigarettes in unmanageable containers before leaving.
If you're suggesting that those giant Marlboro containers that stored several cartons and were in the shape of a Marlboro box were anything but awesome, I won't hear it.

They're kind of funny, actually. So non-discrete.

Working in a grocery store, I always imagined the hardcore smokers would always buy cartons; but almost always just 1-2 packs, which always seemed to be foolish...you're already addicted, so why not appreciate the potential savings?

Smoking is very overrated, for those didn't try it at least once-and-half times.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 10, 2022, 02:38:52 PM
Quote from: formulanone on May 10, 2022, 02:32:48 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 10, 2022, 02:21:50 PM
Quote from: formulanone on May 10, 2022, 02:17:11 PM
Quote from: kurumi on May 10, 2022, 01:41:50 PM
Duty-free shopping gets a lot of hype

Please purchase perfume and cigarettes in unmanageable containers before leaving.
If you're suggesting that those giant Marlboro containers that stored several cartons and were in the shape of a Marlboro box were anything but awesome, I won't hear it.

They're kind of funny, actually. So non-discrete.

Working in a grocery store, I always imagined the hardcore smokers would always buy cartons; but almost always just 1-2 packs, which always seemed to be foolish...you're already addicted, so why not appreciate the potential savings?

Smoking is very overrated, for those didn't try it at least once-and-half times.
As a former smoker, maybe they could only afford one pack.  Or they were trying to hide their habit from someone.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on May 10, 2022, 03:32:17 PM
Florida is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 10, 2022, 03:42:51 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 10, 2022, 02:26:27 PM
Florida is getting that way.

Quote from: hbelkins on May 10, 2022, 03:32:17 PM
Florida is overrated.

Hmm...  I've never been to Florida, but you guys are confirming my long-held suspicion that it's overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 10, 2022, 03:45:19 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 10, 2022, 03:42:51 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 10, 2022, 02:26:27 PM
Florida is getting that way.

Quote from: hbelkins on May 10, 2022, 03:32:17 PM
Florida is overrated.

Hmm...  I've never been to Florida, but you guys are confirming my long-held suspicion that it's overrated.
Can confirm.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2022, 03:49:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 10, 2022, 03:42:51 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 10, 2022, 02:26:27 PM
Florida is getting that way.

Quote from: hbelkins on May 10, 2022, 03:32:17 PM
Florida is overrated.

Hmm...  I've never been to Florida, but you guys are confirming my long-held suspicion that it's overrated.

Count me in on the list of people who think Florida is overrated.  Living there dispelled any notion that it was anything special.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 10, 2022, 04:01:36 PM
It smells bad. Beaches are fine but busy. Lack of culture anywhere other than Miami. You can only go to DisneyWorld, etc. so many times. Hurricanes. Bugs. The people are... Floridian. :)

I can actually say this as I did live there for about a year back in high school.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 10, 2022, 04:09:18 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 10, 2022, 04:01:36 PM
Lack of culture anywhere other than Miami.

Miami is the only place in Florida I've ever thought I might be interested in visiting.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2022, 04:14:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 10, 2022, 04:09:18 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 10, 2022, 04:01:36 PM
Lack of culture anywhere other than Miami.

Miami is the only place in Florida I've ever thought I might be interested in visiting.

The Keys has culture too, but your mileage may vary with the hard core Conch Republic types.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 10, 2022, 05:47:34 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2022, 04:14:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 10, 2022, 04:09:18 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 10, 2022, 04:01:36 PM
Lack of culture anywhere other than Miami.

Miami is the only place in Florida I've ever thought I might be interested in visiting.

The Keys has culture too, but your mileage may vary with the hard core Conch Republic types.

I have a vague idea of what the Conch Republic is, but what are the people like?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 10, 2022, 05:55:19 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 10, 2022, 05:47:34 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2022, 04:14:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 10, 2022, 04:09:18 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 10, 2022, 04:01:36 PM
Lack of culture anywhere other than Miami.

Miami is the only place in Florida I've ever thought I might be interested in visiting.

The Keys has culture too, but your mileage may vary with the hard core Conch Republic types.

I have a vague idea of what the Conch Republic is, but what are the people like?
Parrotheads with questionable bathing habits.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 10, 2022, 06:00:31 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 10, 2022, 05:55:19 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 10, 2022, 05:47:34 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2022, 04:14:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 10, 2022, 04:09:18 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 10, 2022, 04:01:36 PM
Lack of culture anywhere other than Miami.

Miami is the only place in Florida I've ever thought I might be interested in visiting.

The Keys has culture too, but your mileage may vary with the hard core Conch Republic types.

I have a vague idea of what the Conch Republic is, but what are the people like?
Parrotheads with questionable bathing habits.

You can almost always assume there is a >10% chance they've been drinking too.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2022, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 10, 2022, 06:00:31 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 10, 2022, 05:55:19 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 10, 2022, 05:47:34 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 10, 2022, 04:14:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 10, 2022, 04:09:18 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 10, 2022, 04:01:36 PM
Lack of culture anywhere other than Miami.

Miami is the only place in Florida I've ever thought I might be interested in visiting.

The Keys has culture too, but your mileage may vary with the hard core Conch Republic types.

I have a vague idea of what the Conch Republic is, but what are the people like?
Parrotheads with questionable bathing habits.

You can almost always assume there is a >10% chance they've been drinking too.

Essentially the above are symptoms of the so-called "Keys Disease."

A lot Salt Water Conchs also don't like outsiders, it takes seven years to obtain Freshwater Conch status in their eyes.  My opinion about the locals is heavily soured by my interactions by working with them as a security manager on base.  They locals are very opinionated and very aggressive towards sharing their views on what they think of outsiders. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on May 10, 2022, 08:22:51 PM
Florida was good when it was a tourist destination and had plenty of Oranges and other industry that the rest of the country didn't have. Plus traveling around was easy and less traffic. Lakeland was once less than a forty-five minute drive from Disney, but now thanks to a place called Champions Gate, it's a forty five minute ride through it from US 192 to US 27 alone.

Plus it's a major life change when you actual moved when driving, to now stop for several minutes and move for less than thirty seconds to be still for another indefinite amount of time. Of course New Yorkers don't mind driving I-4 at all because it gives them comfort to be at home as being brought up on the LIE with non stop volume, is what I-4 is.

I sometimes feel tempted to erect a hand made sign on the I-4 exit ramp at Exit 58, that reads " Go Home and kindly take your traffic with you"  and post another one to say " Developers are not welcome along with you transplants that patronize them!"
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: D-Dey65 on May 10, 2022, 09:14:53 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 10, 2022, 08:22:51 PM
Florida was good when it was a tourist destination and had plenty of Oranges and other industry that the rest of the country didn't have. Plus traveling around was easy and less traffic. Lakeland was once less than a forty-five minute drive from Disney, but now thanks to a place called Champions Gate, it's a forty five minute ride through it from US 192 to US 27 alone.

Plus it's a major life change when you actual moved when driving, to now stop for several minutes and move for less than thirty seconds to be still for another indefinite amount of time. Of course New Yorkers don't mind driving I-4 at all because it gives them comfort to be at home as being brought up on the LIE with non stop volume, is what I-4 is.

I sometimes feel tempted to erect a hand made sign on the I-4 exit ramp at Exit 58, that reads " Go Home and kindly take your traffic with you"  and post another one to say " Developers are not welcome along with you transplants that patronize them!"
As a former Long Islander, as well as a driver on the LIE, I can assure you I took no comfort from the traffic we used to face, and would often long for the days when NYSDOT was still planning other highways as an alternative. I still do, and I'm pissed that the chances of them being built are less likely.

There are plenty of other developments that sprung up in that area besides Champions Gate. I had an aunt and uncle who lived in three of them before my aunt died in 2021, and my uncle moved back to Upstate New York. Even with him leaving, somebody else bought the house.

And I don't blame you for your sentiment towards developers, but what bothers me more is how poorly planned many of them are. So many of them need frontage roads along US 27, and even interchanges, but nobody is even thinking about that.



Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on May 10, 2022, 11:49:01 PM
I agree it's poorly planned out. The roads do not develop as fast as the land. The I-4 Ultimate was a project that should have been built in the eighties as it was a road set up for the demands of that particular decade and not now. I-4 ideally should have Texas style freeway frontage road system with the Ultimate. If it were built in 1985 that way, no land acquisition would have been needed then as many clutter  what is now was not back then. Of course now it would be impossible.

Lb McCleod could have been part of the Frontage system as well as 33rd Street on the other side. 

Plus starting a light rail back then to go various places stemming off the current SunRail would have helped with the transplant of today if the business to developments were strategically placed along the lines.  Poinciana should have the SunRail go to it rather than stop along US 17 and 92 8 miles from it. Heck does Lynx even run a shuttle to go from that terminal station to someplace like a commuter lot built near the intersection of Doverplum and Cypress Parkway or how about build a bus stop and commuter lot in some of the land not yet built on toward Polk County in that poorly plannned city.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: D-Dey65 on May 11, 2022, 08:54:15 AM
The only buses I know of that go to the Poinciana SunRail station are the Citrus Connector from Polk County. They have a whole parking lot strictly for buses, and it seems like they're hoping to let others in. As for the frontage roads, I'm talking about having them along US 27 in places as far north as Clermont. And add more interchanges in certain spots. I wouldn't go so far as to turn the whole segment into an expressway, but there are areas where they could've built things in a way that doesn't interrupt the flow of traffic on US 27. Sadly, I don't think you can do that anywhere along US 192.

UPDATE: I just checked SunRail's website, and two Lynx bus routes do go there:
https://sunrail.com/station/poinciana/
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on May 11, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
I have only been to Florida twice in my life, both times as teenager, and there is one thing about Florida that I really really love and am envious of (it's probably easy to guess who that is) but I'm not a fan of heat, humidity, hurricanes, thunderstorms practically every summer afternoon, crowds, lots of traffic, beaches, and the other things that Florida is known for.

If not for all the snowbirds, Florida might be OK in the winter, but I want nothing to do with their summer weather. July and August in Kentucky are bad enough.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2022, 01:09:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
I have only been to Florida twice in my life, both times as teenager, and there is one thing about Florida that I really really love and am envious of (it's probably easy to guess who that is)...

Mickey?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 11, 2022, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
there is one thing about Florida that I really really love and am envious of (it's probably easy to guess who that is)

I'm sure it's either XXXTentacion or Lauren Poe, but it beats me which one.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2022, 01:31:19 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 11, 2022, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
there is one thing about Florida that I really really love and am envious of (it's probably easy to guess who that is)

I'm sure it's either XXXTentacion or Lauren Poe, but it beats me which one.

It isn't Buc-ee's and the cult of the beaver is it? 

The snowbirds in Florida really aren't too bad compared to Arizona.  In Florida they tend to stick to Del Boca Vista like communities (see The Villages) whereas Arizona they tend to be thrown more in the mix (aside from the Sun Cities and Quartzsite).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 11, 2022, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2022, 01:09:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
I have only been to Florida twice in my life, both times as teenager, and there is one thing about Florida that I really really love and am envious of (it's probably easy to guess who that is)...

Mickey?
Tom Brady
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on May 11, 2022, 04:06:34 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 11, 2022, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2022, 01:09:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
I have only been to Florida twice in my life, both times as teenager, and there is one thing about Florida that I really really love and am envious of (it's probably easy to guess who that is)...

Mickey?
Tom Brady
Winn-Dixie
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2022, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 11, 2022, 04:06:34 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 11, 2022, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2022, 01:09:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
I have only been to Florida twice in my life, both times as teenager, and there is one thing about Florida that I really really love and am envious of (it's probably easy to guess who that is)...

Mickey?
Tom Brady
Winn-Dixie

Publix?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 11, 2022, 04:07:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2022, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 11, 2022, 04:06:34 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 11, 2022, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2022, 01:09:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
I have only been to Florida twice in my life, both times as teenager, and there is one thing about Florida that I really really love and am envious of (it's probably easy to guess who that is)...

Mickey?
Tom Brady
Winn-Dixie

Publix?
Piggly Wiggly
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: D-Dey65 on May 11, 2022, 04:11:49 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2022, 01:31:19 PM
It isn't Buc-ee's and the cult of the beaver is it? 
I've been meaning to ask about that, since there's one over at International Golf Parkway.

I see that when they built that one there, they eliminated an entire local dead end street (Prosperity Court) from the frontage road (World Commerce Parkway). It makes me wonder what the planners originally thought was going to be built when they laid out those streets.


As for the elimination of the longer connecting ramps on the west side of that interchange.... BOOOOOOOO!

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/x2NZByIJT0WW0BPayC/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e478rx1g4n1h04hbvjsb72linuq71prt3danpotz88p&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)





Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2022, 04:22:19 PM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on May 11, 2022, 04:11:49 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2022, 01:31:19 PM
It isn't Buc-ee's and the cult of the beaver is it? 
I've been meaning to ask about that, since there's one over at International Golf Parkway.

I see that when they built that one there, they eliminated an entire local dead end street (Prosperity Court) from the frontage road (World Commerce Parkway). It makes me wonder what the planners originally thought was going to be built when they laid out those streets.


As for the elimination of the longer connecting ramps on the west side of that interchange.... BOOOOOOOO!

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/x2NZByIJT0WW0BPayC/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e478rx1g4n1h04hbvjsb72linuq71prt3danpotz88p&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)

Personally I'm kind on the "whatever"  side to Buc-ee's.  It was adequate when I stopped in at one, but I wouldn't go out of my way to revisit.  When Adam posted his thoughts on the St. Augustine Buc-ee's on Gribblenation there was significant outrage at someone having a similar middling opinion.  The cultist brand loyalist to gas station chains (Wawa and Sheetz) is something I find kind of bizarre.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 11, 2022, 04:24:06 PM
I mean, it's nice not having to wait to take a leak, but you're paying full fare for anything at Buc-ee's.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 11, 2022, 04:28:27 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 11, 2022, 04:06:34 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 11, 2022, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2022, 01:09:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
I have only been to Florida twice in my life, both times as teenager, and there is one thing about Florida that I really really love and am envious of (it's probably easy to guess who that is)...

Mickey?
Tom Brady
Winn-Dixie
Um, it's a who, not a what.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 11, 2022, 04:47:01 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 11, 2022, 04:28:27 PM

Quote from: Takumi on May 11, 2022, 04:06:34 PM
Winn-Dixie

Um, it's a who, not a what.

Most people refer to dogs (https://www.cuteness.com/blog/content/what-dog-breed-is-winn-dixie) as a 'what', not a 'who'.  But, hey, you do you.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 11, 2022, 04:53:06 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 11, 2022, 04:47:01 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 11, 2022, 04:28:27 PM

Quote from: Takumi on May 11, 2022, 04:06:34 PM
Winn-Dixie

Um, it's a who, not a what.

Most people refer to dogs (https://www.cuteness.com/blog/content/what-dog-breed-is-winn-dixie) as a 'what', not a 'who'.  But, hey, you do you.
If my dog isn't a "who," she sure acts like one.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 11, 2022, 04:58:07 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 11, 2022, 04:53:06 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 11, 2022, 04:47:01 PM
Most people refer to dogs (https://www.cuteness.com/blog/content/what-dog-breed-is-winn-dixie) as a 'what', not a 'who'.  But, hey, you do you.

If my dog isn't a "who," she sure acts like one.

It's a strange linguistic thing, actually.

If, say, you had to make sure that all twelve dogs had been taken out of a certain enclosed area, you probably would not be asked "Are you sure there's nobody left in there?"  You'd probably be asked, "Are you sure there aren't any left in there?"  That isn't the way we talk about humans.

On the other hand, if you come home and find a potted plant knocked over and dirt all over the living room floor, you might ask your two dogs, "OK now, which one of you two ladies is responsible for this mess?"
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2022, 05:01:32 PM
When I discover my three dogs have done something bad and I'm not sure which one it was I ask them "who did it?"   I'm always met with an immediate response as the culprit runs in terror for their crate.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: D-Dey65 on May 11, 2022, 06:19:39 PM
I kind of get what Max is saying. I've never been at the Buc-ee's, but I figure I'll go someday. Just for the record, here's the intersection I'm talking about:
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9828567,-81.465171,3a,15y,17.32h,93.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa9PqJHbe3JxxWvHfp2XlbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

Should I grab a Historic Aerials shot of it too? Okay, here you go:
https://historicaerials.com/?layer=map&zoom=15&lat=29.991111&lon=-81.470278

Is this getting a little too off-topic here? 


Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on May 11, 2022, 06:36:28 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 11, 2022, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2022, 01:09:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
I have only been to Florida twice in my life, both times as teenager, and there is one thing about Florida that I really really love and am envious of (it's probably easy to guess who that is)...

Mickey?
Tom Brady

His balls are underinflated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 11, 2022, 06:41:45 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2022, 06:36:28 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 11, 2022, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2022, 01:09:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
I have only been to Florida twice in my life, both times as teenager, and there is one thing about Florida that I really really love and am envious of (it's probably easy to guess who that is)...

Mickey?
Tom Brady

His balls are underinflated.
That's not what Gisele said.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on May 12, 2022, 10:57:43 AM
 :cool:
Quote from: Rothman on May 11, 2022, 04:07:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2022, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 11, 2022, 04:06:34 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 11, 2022, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2022, 01:09:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
I have only been to Florida twice in my life, both times as teenager, and there is one thing about Florida that I really really love and am envious of (it's probably easy to guess who that is)...

Mickey?
Tom Brady
Winn-Dixie

Publix?
Piggly Wiggly

We've got those here in Wisconsin   :D

For as long as I have been alive and aware, there have always been exactly three things that I have wanted to do in Florida:

- Drive US 1 to Key West.
- See a NASCAR race at Daytona.
- See something getting launched from NASA-Kennedy.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 12, 2022, 11:02:14 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 12, 2022, 10:57:43 AM- See something getting launched from NASA-Kennedy.
Some friends of mine grew up in Orlando, and they got to see the Challenger get launched from KSC.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 12, 2022, 11:48:21 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 12, 2022, 10:57:43 AM
:cool:
Quote from: Rothman on May 11, 2022, 04:07:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 11, 2022, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: Takumi on May 11, 2022, 04:06:34 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 11, 2022, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 11, 2022, 01:09:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
I have only been to Florida twice in my life, both times as teenager, and there is one thing about Florida that I really really love and am envious of (it's probably easy to guess who that is)...

Mickey?
Tom Brady
Winn-Dixie

Publix?
Piggly Wiggly

We've got those here in Wisconsin   :D

For as long as I have been alive and aware, there have always been exactly three things that I have wanted to do in Florida:

- Drive US 1 to Key West.
- See a NASCAR race at Daytona.
- See something getting launched from NASA-Kennedy.

:nod:

Mike

Trouble is, what do you do with yourself after you've done things like that?  It's certainly a question I asked myself when I lived there.  I spent most of my free time in those after years tracking down weird ghost town sites.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on May 12, 2022, 12:29:36 PM
I would totally live in Florida if not for the summer.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 12, 2022, 12:40:41 PM
Quote from: thspfc on May 12, 2022, 12:29:36 PM
I would totally live in Florida if not for the summer.

The summers outside the Keys (ironically the driest part of the state) can be brutally humid.  This is a little bit of an extreme example but I lost a net 14 pounds (about 7% of my body weight at the time) of water weight during a 14 mile run during the summer of 2015.  I started at 5 AM when it was 90F out with 95% humidity.  I drank close to 100oz of fluid during the run but it wasn't anywhere close to enough to be sustainable.  Usually I lost a net 6-10 pounds of water weight on similar distances during the summer before sunrise.  That 14 pound day was the only time in twenty years of running I've actually sought medical attention for dehydration.  In Fresno in the summer on a half marathon run before sunrise I'll lose 2-6 pounds given the air way cooler and way more dry. 

Florida does have some good things going for it though.  As shitty as the summer weather is most of the year is generally pleasant.  If you live away from the shoreline housing tends to be pretty affordable and the economy is fairly healthy.  The overall cost of living is very low and there is very little state level regulation compared to elsewhere.  Trouble is, the state gets very boring fast if you are even slightly outgoing.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 12, 2022, 02:03:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 12, 2022, 12:40:41 PM
Quote from: thspfc on May 12, 2022, 12:29:36 PM
I would totally live in Florida if not for the summer.

The summers outside the Keys (ironically the driest part of the state) can be brutally humid. 

[...]

Florida does have some good things going for it though.  As shitty as the summer weather is most of the year is generally pleasant.  If you live away from the shoreline housing tends to be pretty affordable and the economy is fairly healthy. 

My experience is that it feels less humid if you're 0-2 miles from the shore, due to the breeze...but it's almost always more expensive there. Any further out, and it suddenly gets lot more stagnant. October-to-April (north half of state) or November-April (southern half) can be nice. Either you just treat July-August like northern winter months and go out sparingly, or just suck it up with sunscreen, lots of water, and not worry about how sweaty you'll become...even at 10pm at night.

On the positive side, lots of interesting fauna and flora and you can seriously roadgeek 350+ days out of the year.

The rest of the year gets quite humid, rain is frequent, thunderstorms are plentiful, hurricanes are kind of scary, the terrain isn't very special if you don't like beaches, lots of tourists in most places, it helps to have a high tolerance for old folks, and there's loads of bugs. It's a very mixed bag of paradise, and it may contain nuts.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 12, 2022, 02:15:46 PM
Quote from: formulanone on May 12, 2022, 02:03:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 12, 2022, 12:40:41 PM
Quote from: thspfc on May 12, 2022, 12:29:36 PM
I would totally live in Florida if not for the summer.

The summers outside the Keys (ironically the driest part of the state) can be brutally humid. 

[...]

Florida does have some good things going for it though.  As shitty as the summer weather is most of the year is generally pleasant.  If you live away from the shoreline housing tends to be pretty affordable and the economy is fairly healthy. 

My experience is that it feels less humid if you're 0-2 miles from the shore, due to the breeze...but it's almost always more expensive there. Any further out, and it suddenly gets lot more stagnant. October-to-April (north half of state) or November-April (southern half) can be nice. Either you just treat July-August like northern winter months and go out sparingly, or just suck it up with sunscreen, lots of water, and not worry about how sweaty you'll become...even at 10pm at night.

On the positive side, lots of interesting fauna and flora and you can seriously roadgeek 350+ days out of the year.

The rest of the year gets quite humid, rain is frequent, thunderstorms are plentiful, hurricanes are kind of scary, the terrain isn't very special if you don't like beaches, lots of tourists in most places, it helps to have a high tolerance for old folks, and there's loads of bugs. It's a very mixed bag of paradise, and it may contain nuts.

Sure, you can Roadgeek almost all year.  The trouble is that you run out of worthwhile places to Roadgeek at after awhile in Florida.  Even the most back water roadways (the Everglades Loop Road comes to mind) are tame by comparison to most states. 

Don't get me wrong, my three years in Florida was a economic and career boon for me personally.  I just ended up cashing that in for a transfer to somewhere that was going to occupy my interest a little longer.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 12, 2022, 02:19:38 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 12, 2022, 02:15:46 PMI just ended up cashing that in for a transfer to somewhere that was going to occupy my interest a little longer.

Can't say I blame you. One is really stuck in the cul-de-sac of America by living in Florida (having resided there for over 25 years).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 12, 2022, 02:44:06 PM
Quote from: thspfc on May 12, 2022, 12:29:36 PM
I would totally live in Florida if not for the summer.

Your New Orleans is my Florida, although I've actually lived in Florida.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 10:52:30 AM
Mechanical pencils are overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on May 13, 2022, 11:01:31 AM
Snow is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 11:03:09 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 13, 2022, 11:01:31 AM
Snow is overrated.

A lot of people say they love living somewhere with four distinct seasons.  I think that's overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 13, 2022, 11:13:43 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 10:52:30 AMMechanical pencils are overrated.
Compared to wooden pencils?  I like that they never go dull.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 13, 2022, 11:14:13 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 10:52:30 AM
Mechanical pencils are overrated.

Kind of a necessary evil for air travel though. The good graphite and a decent $5 pencil means I rarely break off the lead like the cheaper disposable pencils.

Not recommended for marking wood or stone, though. Really need a carpenter or thicker pencil for measurements.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 13, 2022, 11:16:23 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 11:03:09 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 13, 2022, 11:01:31 AM
Snow is overrated.

A lot of people say they love living somewhere with four distinct seasons.  I think that's overrated.
I mean, I love the feeling of rebirth and renewal when spring starts, particularly since COVID started.  If it's spring the entire year, you don't get that feeling.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 13, 2022, 11:19:55 AM
Snow is great when it's optional. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 11:21:38 AM
Quote from: formulanone on May 13, 2022, 11:14:13 AM

Quote from: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 10:52:30 AM
Mechanical pencils are overrated.

Kind of a necessary evil for air travel though.

Huh?  Regular old #2 pencils aren't allowed on airplanes?  I was unaware.  Heck, the TSA even specifically allows (https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/items/pencil-sharpeners) pencil sharpeners.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 13, 2022, 11:27:01 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 11:21:38 AM
Quote from: formulanone on May 13, 2022, 11:14:13 AM

Quote from: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 10:52:30 AM
Mechanical pencils are overrated.

Kind of a necessary evil for air travel though.

Huh?  Regular old #2 pencils aren't allowed on airplanes?  I was unaware.  Heck, the TSA even specifically allows (https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/items/pencil-sharpeners) pencil sharpeners.

They're allowed, but then you have to bring a pencil sharpener. And something to hold the messy pencil shavings. I have brought tiny pencil sharpeners aboard before, but that's just one more hassle. An enclosed sharpener doesn't take up much space, but they loosen very easily and the potential mess is not worth the trouble.

Secondly, if I can just fly with one thing instead of 2-3 things that will take up more room or get lost, that's typically the route I'll take. So I just check the lead levels every few months which is just part of my packing/organizing rituals.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 11:29:07 AM
Ah.  Gotcha.

I just seem to always break the lead in mechanical pencils.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on May 13, 2022, 12:17:44 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 10:52:30 AM
Mechanical pencils are overrated.
Yes! They don't write as well, don't erase as well, and break all the time.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 13, 2022, 05:46:21 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 11:29:07 AM
Ah.  Gotcha.

I just seem to always break the lead in mechanical pencils.

What lead thickness do you use? 0.5 mm pencils are, of course, far more likely to break than 0.7 mm. (0.9 mm exists too, but those and their lead are not usually stocked in ordinary office-supply sections of stores.) You can also avoid breaking the lead by reducing the amount of lead exposed past the tip (if you hold down the button you can push the lead back in to adjust the amount of exposed lead).

I personally would rather deal with mechanical pencil lead breaking 5 times as often as a wooden pencil does. The amount of time to fix a broken lead on a mechanical pencil is mere seconds rather than the minute or so it would take to get the pencil sharpener out, sharpen the pencil, possibly re-sharpen the pencil if it came out malformed, and put the pencil sharpener away again. I place a heavy premium on not interrupting my work because if an interruption goes on for too long, I may well never get back to whatever it was I was doing with the pencil to begin with.

Caveat here is I basically only use pencils for artwork (and even for that I've been using the computer more and more). I use pens for ordinary writing.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 13, 2022, 05:48:14 PM
Safety culture.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 13, 2022, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 13, 2022, 05:48:14 PM
Safety culture.

You might need to be a bit more explicit there as to what is overrated about it. By all accounts, safety culture would have saved Chornobyl.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 06:01:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 13, 2022, 05:46:21 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 11:29:07 AM
Ah.  Gotcha.

I just seem to always break the lead in mechanical pencils.

What lead thickness do you use? 0.5 mm pencils are, of course, far more likely to break than 0.7 mm. (0.9 mm exists too, but those and their lead are not usually stocked in ordinary office-supply sections of stores.) You can also avoid breaking the lead by reducing the amount of lead exposed past the tip (if you hold down the button you can push the lead back in to adjust the amount of exposed lead).

I personally would rather deal with mechanical pencil lead breaking 5 times as often as a wooden pencil does. The amount of time to fix a broken lead on a mechanical pencil is mere seconds rather than the minute or so it would take to get the pencil sharpener out, sharpen the pencil, possibly re-sharpen the pencil if it came out malformed, and put the pencil sharpener away again. I place a heavy premium on not interrupting my work because if an interruption goes on for too long, I may well never get back to whatever it was I was doing with the pencil to begin with.

Caveat here is I basically only use pencils for artwork (and even for that I've been using the computer more and more). I use pens for ordinary writing.

Beats me.  Whatever mechanical pencil happens to be lying around when I can't find a real pencil.

Caveat here is that I fully expected this one to be controversial.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 13, 2022, 06:04:59 PM
I was about to object to the phrase "real pencil", since that implies the existence of a "fake pencil", but then I realized that's more or less what a tablet stylus is...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 13, 2022, 06:07:27 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 13, 2022, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 13, 2022, 05:48:14 PM
Safety culture.

You might need to be a bit more explicit there as to what is overrated about it. By all accounts, safety culture would have saved Chernobyl.

Namely anything that goes beyond what OSH or an applicable state level entity would require.  I've found doing "safety culture"  tasks things such as "safety meetings"  and "safety stand ups"  to be superfluous at best or having an unintended negative effect at worst. 

For context, I've been a physical security and apparently a safety manager since 2005.  I have yet to see any actual evidence that safety can be "fun"  like so many people in the field claim it to be.  I've often found that trying to solve safety issues with excessive amounts of shotgun style training, meetings and safety awareness group talks actually tends have opposite effect in that more people suddenly have accidents (or rather report minor things they never would have before).  I tend to believe the best approach is following what OSH guidelines proscribe via the following:

-  Required trackable administration training.  It doesn't need to be fun, it needs to be tracked and kept on record. 
-  There is zero need for a safety committee, nobody ever wants to be part of them and they often get assigned as punishment for being a poor/unsafe employee.  Poor/unsafe employees never make for good safety advocates.
-  If someone received safety training and they fuck up, the hold them accountable administratively.  If a department fucks up safety wise, hold them accountable.  Don't hold everyone accountable because one person or a department fucked up by subjecting them to shotgun safety training.
-  Emphasize to department heads that accidents cost money when people seek Workman's Comp or property is damaged.  I don't know why it so taboo in the safety field to talk about monetary costs. 
-  Safety audits should be conducted by people who are actual safety experts and not members or some mandated safety culture committee.   

Things like Chernobyl are a different beast.  The Soviet Union viewed people as disposable assets and often cut corners at their expense.  So to rephrase, American style workplace Safety Culture is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 13, 2022, 07:07:26 PM
Gotcha. I agree that the sorts of explicit look-at-me-being-so-safe baubles you mention rarely have the intended effect, and just irritate the front-line employees. Rather than safety culture being a thing, it should just be ingrained in company culture. Rather than having "safety policies" safety needs to just be a part of the SOPs.

For example, when Japanese train inspectors look over a train before departure, they are required to physically point with their finger at each part of the train/platform/track as they inspect it. It helps with safety because to point at something you have to actually look at it to make sure you're pointing at the right thing. That way there's no glossing over things in the checklist ("yeah, tracks were clear last time I looked at them, onto the next thing..."). The practice has never caught on in the US because it's not enforced by policy the way it is in Japan, and the Americans are too worried about looking silly to do it without it being required by their employer.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on May 13, 2022, 07:16:53 PM
The WWE...

Seems like they have to be airing something in primetime every night of the week on at least one cable or terrestrial network.  And of course, it's all staged!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kurumi on May 13, 2022, 07:17:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 13, 2022, 06:04:59 PM
I was about to object to the phrase "real pencil", since that implies the existence of a "fake pencil", but then I realized that's more or less what a tablet stylus is...

We just say "acoustic pencil" these days... /s
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on May 13, 2022, 09:42:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 13, 2022, 11:16:23 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 11:03:09 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 13, 2022, 11:01:31 AM
Snow is overrated.

A lot of people say they love living somewhere with four distinct seasons.  I think that's overrated.
I mean, I love the feeling of rebirth and renewal when spring starts, particularly since COVID started.  If it's spring the entire year, you don't get that feeling.

I hate people assuming that there can't be four seasons if one of them doesn't feature snow.  In the San Francisco Bay Area, winter is the season when there's a reasonable amount of rain.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 13, 2022, 10:00:31 PM
Quote from: kkt on May 13, 2022, 09:42:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 13, 2022, 11:16:23 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 11:03:09 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 13, 2022, 11:01:31 AM
Snow is overrated.

A lot of people say they love living somewhere with four distinct seasons.  I think that's overrated.
I mean, I love the feeling of rebirth and renewal when spring starts, particularly since COVID started.  If it's spring the entire year, you don't get that feeling.

I hate people assuming that there can't be four seasons if one of them doesn't feature snow.  In the San Francisco Bay Area, winter is the season when there's a reasonable amount of rain.

Or the worst fog in the country in the Central Valley every winter.  I do like a quiet early morning run in the fog though, about as serene as it gets locally. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 13, 2022, 10:44:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 13, 2022, 10:00:31 PM
Quote from: kkt on May 13, 2022, 09:42:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 13, 2022, 11:16:23 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 11:03:09 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 13, 2022, 11:01:31 AM
Snow is overrated.

A lot of people say they love living somewhere with four distinct seasons.  I think that's overrated.
I mean, I love the feeling of rebirth and renewal when spring starts, particularly since COVID started.  If it's spring the entire year, you don't get that feeling.

I hate people assuming that there can't be four seasons if one of them doesn't feature snow.  In the San Francisco Bay Area, winter is the season when there's a reasonable amount of rain.

Or the worst fog in the country in the Central Valley every winter.  I do like a quiet early morning run in the fog though, about as serene as it gets locally.
And then you get hit.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 14, 2022, 12:21:06 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 13, 2022, 10:44:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 13, 2022, 10:00:31 PM
Quote from: kkt on May 13, 2022, 09:42:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 13, 2022, 11:16:23 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 11:03:09 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 13, 2022, 11:01:31 AM
Snow is overrated.

A lot of people say they love living somewhere with four distinct seasons.  I think that's overrated.
I mean, I love the feeling of rebirth and renewal when spring starts, particularly since COVID started.  If it's spring the entire year, you don't get that feeling.

I hate people assuming that there can't be four seasons if one of them doesn't feature snow.  In the San Francisco Bay Area, winter is the season when there's a reasonable amount of rain.

Or the worst fog in the country in the Central Valley every winter.  I do like a quiet early morning run in the fog though, about as serene as it gets locally.
And then you get hit.

Most people aren't up at 4:30 AM to do the hitting. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 14, 2022, 02:01:54 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 14, 2022, 12:21:06 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 13, 2022, 10:44:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 13, 2022, 10:00:31 PM
Quote from: kkt on May 13, 2022, 09:42:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 13, 2022, 11:16:23 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 11:03:09 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 13, 2022, 11:01:31 AM
Snow is overrated.

A lot of people say they love living somewhere with four distinct seasons.  I think that's overrated.
I mean, I love the feeling of rebirth and renewal when spring starts, particularly since COVID started.  If it's spring the entire year, you don't get that feeling.

I hate people assuming that there can't be four seasons if one of them doesn't feature snow.  In the San Francisco Bay Area, winter is the season when there's a reasonable amount of rain.

Or the worst fog in the country in the Central Valley every winter.  I do like a quiet early morning run in the fog though, about as serene as it gets locally.
And then you get hit.

Most people aren't up at 4:30 AM to do the hitting.
All it takes is one.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 14, 2022, 02:30:42 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 14, 2022, 02:01:54 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 14, 2022, 12:21:06 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 13, 2022, 10:44:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 13, 2022, 10:00:31 PM
Quote from: kkt on May 13, 2022, 09:42:02 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 13, 2022, 11:16:23 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 13, 2022, 11:03:09 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 13, 2022, 11:01:31 AM
Snow is overrated.

A lot of people say they love living somewhere with four distinct seasons.  I think that's overrated.
I mean, I love the feeling of rebirth and renewal when spring starts, particularly since COVID started.  If it's spring the entire year, you don't get that feeling.

I hate people assuming that there can't be four seasons if one of them doesn't feature snow.  In the San Francisco Bay Area, winter is the season when there's a reasonable amount of rain.

Or the worst fog in the country in the Central Valley every winter.  I do like a quiet early morning run in the fog though, about as serene as it gets locally.
And then you get hit.

Most people aren't up at 4:30 AM to do the hitting.
All it takes is one.

Irony being two times I was hit by drivers was on bright sunny days between 2-3 PM.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: SSOWorld on May 14, 2022, 07:54:57 PM
Remember in Florida, you know it's fall when the license plate colors start to change.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 14, 2022, 08:14:39 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on May 14, 2022, 07:54:57 PM
Remember in Florida, you know it's fall when the license plate colors start to change.

Or a Canadian coin in your change. (Though I'd imagine this doesn't happen as much anymore.)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on May 14, 2022, 09:52:54 PM
I'm showing my age, but I remember when a few Canadian coins would be accepted happily by retailers as far south as Seattle.  Banks and ultimately the Federal Reserve would accept a small number of them at par.  That easygoing arrangement ended about the late 1980s or early 1990s and now it's strictly US coins.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 14, 2022, 09:56:46 PM
Quote from: kkt on May 14, 2022, 09:52:54 PM
I'm showing my age, but I remember when a few Canadian coins would be accepted happily by retailers as far south as Seattle.  Banks and ultimately the Federal Reserve would accept a small number of them at par.  That easygoing arrangement ended about the late 1980s or early 1990s and now it's strictly US coins.

Same in Michigan, I recall getting rid of my Canadian coins at 7/11 and Burger King during the 80s.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on May 14, 2022, 11:09:51 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 14, 2022, 09:56:46 PM
Quote from: kkt on May 14, 2022, 09:52:54 PM
I'm showing my age, but I remember when a few Canadian coins would be accepted happily by retailers as far south as Seattle.  Banks and ultimately the Federal Reserve would accept a small number of them at par.  That easygoing arrangement ended about the late 1980s or early 1990s and now it's strictly US coins.

Same in Michigan, I recall getting rid of my Canadian coins at 7/11 and Burger King during the 80s.

It seemed like Canadian coins of .25 or less in most stores and occasionally in vending machines have always  been accepted "South of the border" since their penny, nickel, dime and quarter coins are almost carbon copy equivalents of our coins.  I still see a few Canadian coins from time to time, those less often as I now live in Colorado.

It seems that more Canadian retailers will accept US paper currency (with various exchange rates) than the other way around.  When I lived around northern Ohio (Cleveland and Toledo), I never remember seeing a business that would openly accept Canadian Loonies or higher.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 14, 2022, 11:18:38 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on May 14, 2022, 11:09:51 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 14, 2022, 09:56:46 PM
Quote from: kkt on May 14, 2022, 09:52:54 PM
I'm showing my age, but I remember when a few Canadian coins would be accepted happily by retailers as far south as Seattle.  Banks and ultimately the Federal Reserve would accept a small number of them at par.  That easygoing arrangement ended about the late 1980s or early 1990s and now it's strictly US coins.

Same in Michigan, I recall getting rid of my Canadian coins at 7/11 and Burger King during the 80s.

It seemed like Canadian coins of .25 or less in most stores and occasionally in vending machines have always  been accepted "South of the border" since their penny, nickel, dime and quarter coins are almost carbon copy equivalents of our coins.  I still see a few Canadian coins from time to time, those less often as I now live in Colorado.

It seems that more Canadian retailers will accept US paper currency (with various exchange rates) than the other way around.  When I lived around northern Ohio (Cleveland and Toledo), I never remember seeing a business that would openly accept Canadian Loonies or higher.

Interestingly enough, all the mainstream retailers I managed security for like Target and Sears in the Phoenix area accepted Pesos.  It was always a trip trying to help the floor managers on how to calculate the most recent exchange rate when it came up.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on May 15, 2022, 05:45:52 PM
Most American vending machines don't take Canadian quarters. The Canadian quarter is slightly smaller and slightly lighter than its American counterpart and the machines can apparently tell the difference. Canadian vending machines, of course, will often happily accept American coins.

The Coinstar machines at the supermarket will usually accept Canadian pennies but not other Canadian coins.

I recall in 1989 the McDonald's in Calais, Maine, had double-wide cash register drawers so they could accept both countries' currency. You received change in whichever currency you used to pay. (For all the younger forum members, take note that in 1989 McDonald's, and most other fast food places, did not accept credit cards, and debit cards as a form of payment–as opposed to purely for ATM access–didn't generally exist.)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on May 15, 2022, 08:10:34 PM
Roundabouts.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: XamotCGC on May 15, 2022, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 15, 2022, 08:10:34 PM
Roundabouts.

I second that.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on May 15, 2022, 09:50:01 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 15, 2022, 05:45:52 PM
The Canadian quarter is slightly smaller and slightly lighter than its American counterpart and the machines can apparently tell the difference.

Yep.  Back in the Bretton Woods monetary era (1945-early 1970s) the Canadian and US dollar were at par, and silver coins contained the same amount of silver.  But U.S. coin silver was 90.0% silver and 10% alloy, while Canadian coin silver was sterling silver, 92.5% silver and 7.5% alloy, so the Canadian coins were slightly smaller and lighter.  Both countries continued their traditional sizes even after both of them eliminated silver in the circulating coinage.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 15, 2022, 09:59:20 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 15, 2022, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 15, 2022, 08:10:34 PM
Roundabouts.

I second that.
Wrong.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bulldog1979 on May 16, 2022, 02:29:26 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on May 14, 2022, 11:09:51 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 14, 2022, 09:56:46 PM
Quote from: kkt on May 14, 2022, 09:52:54 PM
I'm showing my age, but I remember when a few Canadian coins would be accepted happily by retailers as far south as Seattle.  Banks and ultimately the Federal Reserve would accept a small number of them at par.  That easygoing arrangement ended about the late 1980s or early 1990s and now it's strictly US coins.

Same in Michigan, I recall getting rid of my Canadian coins at 7/11 and Burger King during the 80s.

It seemed like Canadian coins of .25 or less in most stores and occasionally in vending machines have always  been accepted "South of the border" since their penny, nickel, dime and quarter coins are almost carbon copy equivalents of our coins.  I still see a few Canadian coins from time to time, those less often as I now live in Colorado.

It seems that more Canadian retailers will accept US paper currency (with various exchange rates) than the other way around.  When I lived around northern Ohio (Cleveland and Toledo), I never remember seeing a business that would openly accept Canadian Loonies or higher.

I worked for a certain large American big box retailer for a decade. In the first store where I worked, we accepted Canadian currency. (We're just 150 miles from the border.) We even had a special button on the register keyboard that would do the conversion for us, and it calculated the change in American dollars. The caveat was that we could only accept Canadian bills, not coins, because of a limitation from our bank.

Quote from: 1995hoo on May 15, 2022, 05:45:52 PM
Most American vending machines don't take Canadian quarters. The Canadian quarter is slightly smaller and slightly lighter than its American counterpart and the machines can apparently tell the difference. Canadian vending machines, of course, will often happily accept American coins.

The Coinstar machines at the supermarket will usually accept Canadian pennies but not other Canadian coins.

I recall in 1989 the McDonald's in Calais, Maine, had double-wide cash register drawers so they could accept both countries' currency. You received change in whichever currency you used to pay. (For all the younger forum members, take note that in 1989 McDonald's, and most other fast food places, did not accept credit cards, and debit cards as a form of payment–as opposed to purely for ATM access–didn't generally exist.)

Our coin counter in the Accounting Office could tell the difference in coin types. It worked by passing a small electrical current through each coin. The resistance value of each domination of coin is different. (Part of the reason the current US dollar coins tarnish so readily is that they had to find an alloy with the same resistance value and relative weight as the Susan B. Anthony coins, and the one they found likes to tarnish.) The counter would reject silver coinage and reject many Canadian coins as they have a slightly different resistance value compared to their American counterparts.  Counting pennies was always a bit weird because of the change from pure copper to copper-zinc in the 1980s.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 7/8 on May 16, 2022, 09:59:04 AM
I rarely get change nowadays since I usually don't use cash, but in my experience growing up in the 2000's, American coins were pretty common in our change and Canadian retailers wouldn't care if you used them. On the other hand, I can remember at least once trying to use a Canadian coin (quarter or less) in the US and being told that they won't accept it. As a kid it seemed ridiculous because to me they were basically interchangeable, but in hindsight and I can understand that Canadian currency is worth a bit less and probably less common further from the border.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 16, 2022, 10:39:50 AM
Growing up in Minnesota, we got Canadian coins in change all the time. I looked at getting a Canadian penny about the same as getting a hay penny.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 16, 2022, 10:42:42 AM
I get the convenience of paying with another country's form of currency (mainly thanks to traveling around Europe before the Euro existed), but the exchange rate must be pretty exorbitant for it to be worth it to the business.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 16, 2022, 04:11:40 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 15, 2022, 09:59:20 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 15, 2022, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 15, 2022, 08:10:34 PM
Roundabouts.

I second that.
Wrong.

Pretty sure he yielded, though.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 16, 2022, 04:17:34 PM
Quote from: formulanone on May 16, 2022, 04:11:40 PM

Quote from: Rothman on May 15, 2022, 09:59:20 PM

Quote from: XamotCGC on May 15, 2022, 09:39:02 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on May 15, 2022, 08:10:34 PM
Roundabouts.

I second that.

Wrong.

Pretty sure he yielded, though.

He was forced to.  Geometry.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 16, 2022, 06:30:18 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 16, 2022, 10:42:42 AM
I get the convenience of paying with another country's form of currency (mainly thanks to traveling around Europe before the Euro existed), but the exchange rate must be pretty exorbitant for it to be worth it to the business.

And there's the matter of if the bank will even accept them or not. None of the banks used by the businesses in Oklahoma I've worked for would. Usually if Canadian change was noticed, one of the cashiers would buy it (there was a guy who liked to collect it) or it would be handed out to a customer as expeditiously as possible so that you didn't get stuck with it, like a game of Old Maid or something.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: LilianaUwU on May 16, 2022, 06:32:42 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 16, 2022, 10:39:50 AM
Growing up in Minnesota, we got Canadian coins in change all the time. I looked at getting a Canadian penny about the same as getting a hay penny.

The opposite happens here in Québec: around 1 in 10 coins I've gotten as change (back before I used a debit card, that is) were American coins.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 17, 2022, 10:31:26 PM
Vanilla extract is overrated.
Almond extract is the bomb diggity.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on May 17, 2022, 11:06:39 PM
Lunar eclipses. The moon is slightly redder than usual. That doesn't excite me all that much.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on May 17, 2022, 11:35:55 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 17, 2022, 11:06:39 PM
Lunar eclipses. The moon is slightly redder than usual. That doesn't excite me all that much.

Neal DeGrasse Tyson has joined the chat.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 17, 2022, 11:43:43 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 17, 2022, 11:35:55 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 17, 2022, 11:06:39 PM
Lunar eclipses. The moon is slightly redder than usual. That doesn't excite me all that much.

Neal DeGrasse Tyson has joined the chat.

My wife and I went outside to look at it for maybe 30 seconds.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 18, 2022, 12:26:27 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 17, 2022, 11:43:43 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 17, 2022, 11:35:55 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 17, 2022, 11:06:39 PM
Lunar eclipses. The moon is slightly redder than usual. That doesn't excite me all that much.

Neal DeGrasse Tyson has joined the chat.

My wife and I went outside to look at it for maybe 30 seconds.

They're much more common than solar eclipses, which probably dulls the enthusiasm too.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 18, 2022, 12:37:18 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 18, 2022, 12:26:27 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 17, 2022, 11:43:43 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 17, 2022, 11:35:55 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 17, 2022, 11:06:39 PM
Lunar eclipses. The moon is slightly redder than usual. That doesn't excite me all that much.

Neal DeGrasse Tyson has joined the chat.

My wife and I went outside to look at it for maybe 30 seconds.

They're much more common than solar eclipses, which probably dulls the enthusiasm too.

That I actually did bother to stop for during my trip to the UP in 2017.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on May 18, 2022, 01:43:15 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 18, 2022, 12:37:18 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 18, 2022, 12:26:27 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 17, 2022, 11:43:43 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 17, 2022, 11:35:55 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 17, 2022, 11:06:39 PM
Lunar eclipses. The moon is slightly redder than usual. That doesn't excite me all that much.

Neal DeGrasse Tyson has joined the chat.

My wife and I went outside to look at it for maybe 30 seconds.

They're much more common than solar eclipses, which probably dulls the enthusiasm too.

That I actually did bother to stop for during my trip to the UP in 2017.

I drove about 175 miles to see totality for that one. It's definitely a much more memorable experience.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 18, 2022, 08:15:34 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 17, 2022, 11:06:39 PM
Lunar eclipses. The moon is slightly redder than usual. That doesn't excite me all that much.
I still like them.  At least here, the contrast between the bright full moon and the deep red blood moon is very, very stark and it's fun to see Earth's shadow cross the Moon.

That said, I have a friend who said, without seeing the eclipse, "I don't understand the hype about the solar eclipse.  What's so great about darkness?"  After seeing it myself, I emphasized with him that he had no clue whatsoever about what he was talking. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on May 18, 2022, 12:59:21 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 18, 2022, 08:15:34 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 17, 2022, 11:06:39 PM

Lunar eclipses. The moon is slightly redder than usual. That doesn't excite me all that much.

I still like them.  At least here, the contrast between the bright full moon and the deep red blood moon is very, very stark and it's fun to see Earth's shadow cross the Moon.

This is, I think, the first discussion we've had where I've been the curmudgeon. It's a bit disconcerting.  :-D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 18, 2022, 01:26:13 PM
Well, yeah.  By posting in this thread–not just replying to someone else's post–you basically have to put on the curmudgeon hat.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on May 18, 2022, 01:30:11 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 17, 2022, 11:43:43 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 17, 2022, 11:35:55 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 17, 2022, 11:06:39 PM
Lunar eclipses. The moon is slightly redder than usual. That doesn't excite me all that much.
Neal DeGrasse Tyson has joined the chat.
My wife and I went outside to look at it for maybe 30 seconds.

It was cloudy here so I didn't even go outside.  But I've seen seen total eclipses of the moon before, so a partial one just isn't that exciting.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 18, 2022, 01:32:32 PM
My wife and I went outside, saw that the moon was behind some trees, and went back in.  Whoopee.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 19, 2022, 11:43:56 PM
Arby's curly fries.

Actually, curly fries in general.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 19, 2022, 11:45:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 19, 2022, 11:43:56 PM
Arby's curly fries.

Actually, curly fries in general.

The really tightly wound, soft, boingy ones are good. The rest are meh.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on May 20, 2022, 01:08:50 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 19, 2022, 11:43:56 PM
Arby's curly fries.

Actually, curly fries in general.

You think they're overrated, I think they're underrated.

Maybe they're properly rated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on May 20, 2022, 01:15:27 AM
Quote from: 7/8 on May 16, 2022, 09:59:04 AM
I rarely get change nowadays since I usually don't use cash, but in my experience growing up in the 2000's, American coins were pretty common in our change and Canadian retailers wouldn't care if you used them. On the other hand, I can remember at least once trying to use a Canadian coin (quarter or less) in the US and being told that they won't accept it. As a kid it seemed ridiculous because to me they were basically interchangeable, but in hindsight and I can understand that Canadian currency is worth a bit less and probably less common further from the border.

It probably depends on where you are in the US and what coins you're using. I've recieved Canadian pennies as change on several occasions and didn't think anything of it. I've never used or received any larger Canadian coins, though, at least not that I can remember.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on May 20, 2022, 01:37:59 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 18, 2022, 01:32:32 PM
My wife and I went outside, saw that the moon was behind some trees, and went back in.  Whoopee.

I could've said that to, but instead I found a different spot where I could see.  :-P

I actually found the lunar eclipse interesting, but it's best observed a) during the transition phases and b) over a period of time. I started watching early on, when it looked like a normal full moon, then with a bite out of it, then half-gone, and finally just a speck of bright light on the edge, and that's when you really start to notice the reddish color. I didn't stay up to watch the shadow move off the other side, but if I had, I wouldn't have bothered watching the entire total eclipse phase in between, which is admittedly very boring.

And that's really the key difference between a lunar eclipse and a solar eclipse: while the transition phases are equally interesting (but much more watchable during a lunar eclipse), the "total" phase of a lunar eclipse is fairly boring and anticlimactic while the "total" phase of a solar eclipse is extremely exciting and climactic.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 09:30:54 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 20, 2022, 01:08:50 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 19, 2022, 11:43:56 PM
Arby's curly fries.

Actually, curly fries in general.

You think they're overrated, I think they're underrated.

Maybe they're properly rated.

Agreed.  Curly fries are awesome, and that's just how they're generally rated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 20, 2022, 11:46:53 AM
Fake skulls on everything.

(real ones are apparently underrated, though)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on May 20, 2022, 01:18:03 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 19, 2022, 11:43:56 PM
Arby's curly fries.

Actually, curly fries in general.

Not the shape, but the seasoning. I don't know why curly fries always tend to be seasoned. I'd rate a seasoned crinkle-cut or shoestring fry the same as Arby's, but I'd also rate a regular curly fry the same as a regular cut of any other unseasoned fry.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 01:54:24 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 20, 2022, 01:18:03 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 19, 2022, 11:43:56 PM
Arby's curly fries.

Actually, curly fries in general.

Not the shape, but the seasoning.

You're wrong.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 7/8 on May 20, 2022, 03:06:55 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 20, 2022, 01:15:27 AM
Quote from: 7/8 on May 16, 2022, 09:59:04 AM
I rarely get change nowadays since I usually don't use cash, but in my experience growing up in the 2000's, American coins were pretty common in our change and Canadian retailers wouldn't care if you used them. On the other hand, I can remember at least once trying to use a Canadian coin (quarter or less) in the US and being told that they won't accept it. As a kid it seemed ridiculous because to me they were basically interchangeable, but in hindsight and I can understand that Canadian currency is worth a bit less and probably less common further from the border.

It probably depends on where you are in the US and what coins you're using. I've recieved Canadian pennies as change on several occasions and didn't think anything of it. I've never used or received any larger Canadian coins, though, at least not that I can remember.

You guys can keep our useless pennies. :-P

An interesting thought: I wonder if some Canadians purposely try to use their pennies in the US to get rid of them (saves the effort of going to the bank).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 03:08:09 PM
Going to a difference county is so-o-o much easier than going to the bank!   :crazy:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 7/8 on May 20, 2022, 03:45:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 03:08:09 PM
Going to a difference county is so-o-o much easier than going to the bank!   :crazy:

Lol maybe that sounds silly, but I'm thinking if you have a trip planned in a few months, it's easier to bring some of them on the trip instead.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on May 20, 2022, 03:58:39 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on May 20, 2022, 03:45:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 03:08:09 PM
Going to a difference county is so-o-o much easier than going to the bank!   :crazy:

Lol maybe that sounds silly, but I'm thinking if you have a trip planned in a few months, it's easier to bring some of them on the trip instead.

Actually, I'll bet there's some truth to that. Might as well put your pennies in circulation in the US now that they're no good in Canada.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 04:09:50 PM
Wow, nobody called me out for typing 'county' instead of 'country'!   :awesomeface:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on May 20, 2022, 04:13:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 04:09:50 PM
Wow, nobody called me out for typing 'county' instead of 'country'!   :awesomeface:

Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 03:08:09 PM
Going to a difference county is so-o-o much easier than going to the bank!   :crazy:

Now I see the difference... LOL!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 20, 2022, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 09:30:54 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 20, 2022, 01:08:50 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 19, 2022, 11:43:56 PM
Arby's curly fries.

Actually, curly fries in general.

You think they're overrated, I think they're underrated.

Maybe they're properly rated.

Agreed.  Curly fries are awesome, and that's just how they're generally rated.

I experience no awe when I eat a curly fry. Just disappointment that it's worse than a regular french fry.

In addition to the weird seasoning, the increased surface area of a curly fry means that they get fried into hard, inedible rocks far more frequently than standard fries.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 20, 2022, 05:18:21 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 04:09:50 PM
Wow, nobody called me out for typing 'county' instead of 'country'!   :awesomeface:

I was silently proving a point to you or just busy with something else.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on May 20, 2022, 05:24:21 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 20, 2022, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 09:30:54 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 20, 2022, 01:08:50 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 19, 2022, 11:43:56 PM
Arby's curly fries.

Actually, curly fries in general.

You think they're overrated, I think they're underrated.

Maybe they're properly rated.

Agreed.  Curly fries are awesome, and that's just how they're generally rated.

I experience no awe when I eat a curly fry. Just disappointment that it's worse than a regular french fry.

In addition to the weird seasoning, the increased surface area of a curly fry means that they get fried into hard, inedible rocks far more frequently than standard fries.

My wife was a fan of the regular fries more than the curly fries, but grew to like them more when the regular fries were discontinued.

Me - the curly fries are excellent, and I prefer to dip them in their honey mustard sauce.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 20, 2022, 05:16:28 PM
the increased surface area of a curly fry means that they get fried into hard, inedible rocks far more frequently than standard fries.

Yes, and those crunchy ones down at the bottom are the BEST!  YummmmmmmMMY!

Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 20, 2022, 05:24:21 PM
I prefer to dip them in their honey mustard sauce.

Mix Arby's sauce together with Horsey sauce.  Hoo yeah!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on May 20, 2022, 08:24:54 PM
The Grateful Dead.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on May 20, 2022, 09:34:09 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 20, 2022, 05:16:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 09:30:54 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 20, 2022, 01:08:50 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 19, 2022, 11:43:56 PM
Arby's curly fries.

Actually, curly fries in general.

You think they're overrated, I think they're underrated.

Maybe they're properly rated.

Agreed.  Curly fries are awesome, and that's just how they're generally rated.

I experience no awe when I eat a curly fry. Just disappointment that it's worse than a regular french fry.

In addition to the weird seasoning, the increased surface area of a curly fry means that they get fried into hard, inedible rocks far more frequently than standard fries.

I'm in this camp. In my view, crinkle cut is by far the best.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 20, 2022, 11:00:58 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 20, 2022, 08:24:54 PM
The Grateful Dead.

Where do you hide something from a Deadhead?

Under a bar of soap.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: cwf1701 on May 21, 2022, 12:28:35 PM
Aaron Rodgers. IMO, the more deserving person who should have won the NFL MVP in 2021 is Cooper Kupp of the Rams.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on May 21, 2022, 01:44:33 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 21, 2022, 12:28:35 PM
Aaron Rodgers. IMO, the more deserving person who should have won the NFL MVP in 2021 is Cooper Kupp of the Rams.
MVP stands for "Most Valuable Player" . Who is more valuable to their team?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: XamotCGC on May 21, 2022, 03:17:03 PM
The Kardashian's 

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 21, 2022, 03:25:21 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 21, 2022, 03:17:03 PM
The Kardashian's

Hard to be overrated when something is closely to universally hated. 

Regarding Kim Kardashian, I never understood why so many dudes a decade ago were into her.  She looked way more attractive pre-plastic surgery but even then wasn't anything super special.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Big John on May 21, 2022, 03:32:36 PM
Celebrities

I don't understand why so many people are star-struck.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 06:05:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 20, 2022, 05:16:28 PM
the increased surface area of a curly fry means that they get fried into hard, inedible rocks far more frequently than standard fries.

Yes, and those crunchy ones down at the bottom are the BEST!  YummmmmmmMMY!

Generally speaking, I don't care for any food that makes my teeth hurt.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 06:05:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 20, 2022, 05:16:28 PM
the increased surface area of a curly fry means that they get fried into hard, inedible rocks far more frequently than standard fries.

Yes, and those crunchy ones down at the bottom are the BEST!  YummmmmmmMMY!

Generally speaking, I don't care for any food that makes my teeth hurt.
Curly fries hurt your teeth?  You should see a dentist.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 06:05:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 20, 2022, 05:16:28 PM
the increased surface area of a curly fry means that they get fried into hard, inedible rocks far more frequently than standard fries.

Yes, and those crunchy ones down at the bottom are the BEST!  YummmmmmmMMY!

Generally speaking, I don't care for any food that makes my teeth hurt.
Curly fries hurt your teeth?  You should see a dentist.

They do when Arby's fries them so long they form a substance you could armor a tank with.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 09:07:49 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 06:05:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 20, 2022, 05:16:28 PM
the increased surface area of a curly fry means that they get fried into hard, inedible rocks far more frequently than standard fries.

Yes, and those crunchy ones down at the bottom are the BEST!  YummmmmmmMMY!

Generally speaking, I don't care for any food that makes my teeth hurt.
Curly fries hurt your teeth?  You should see a dentist.

They do when Arby's fries them so long they form a substance you could armor a tank with.
Um...they aren't like that.  See the dentist.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on May 21, 2022, 09:14:04 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 06:05:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 20, 2022, 05:16:28 PM
the increased surface area of a curly fry means that they get fried into hard, inedible rocks far more frequently than standard fries.

Yes, and those crunchy ones down at the bottom are the BEST!  YummmmmmmMMY!

Generally speaking, I don't care for any food that makes my teeth hurt.
Curly fries hurt your teeth?  You should see a dentist.

They do when Arby's fries them so long they form a substance you could armor a tank with.

Maybe try a different Arby's.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 09:18:52 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 09:07:49 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 06:05:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 20, 2022, 05:16:28 PM
the increased surface area of a curly fry means that they get fried into hard, inedible rocks far more frequently than standard fries.

Yes, and those crunchy ones down at the bottom are the BEST!  YummmmmmmMMY!

Generally speaking, I don't care for any food that makes my teeth hurt.
Curly fries hurt your teeth?  You should see a dentist.

They do when Arby's fries them so long they form a substance you could armor a tank with.
Um...they aren't like that.  See the dentist.

My dentist recommends I don't eat at Arby's.

Not because of anything to do with my teeth, but because it's Arby's.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 09:19:54 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 09:18:52 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 09:07:49 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 06:05:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 20, 2022, 05:16:28 PM
the increased surface area of a curly fry means that they get fried into hard, inedible rocks far more frequently than standard fries.

Yes, and those crunchy ones down at the bottom are the BEST!  YummmmmmmMMY!

Generally speaking, I don't care for any food that makes my teeth hurt.
Curly fries hurt your teeth?  You should see a dentist.

They do when Arby's fries them so long they form a substance you could armor a tank with.
Um...they aren't like that.  See the dentist.

My dentist recommends I don't eat at Arby's.

Not because of anything to do with my teeth, but because it's Arby's.
Your teeth need some serious help.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 09:39:50 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 09:19:54 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 09:18:52 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 09:07:49 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 06:05:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 20, 2022, 05:16:28 PM
the increased surface area of a curly fry means that they get fried into hard, inedible rocks far more frequently than standard fries.

Yes, and those crunchy ones down at the bottom are the BEST!  YummmmmmmMMY!

Generally speaking, I don't care for any food that makes my teeth hurt.
Curly fries hurt your teeth?  You should see a dentist.

They do when Arby's fries them so long they form a substance you could armor a tank with.
Um...they aren't like that.  See the dentist.

My dentist recommends I don't eat at Arby's.

Not because of anything to do with my teeth, but because it's Arby's.
Your teeth need some serious help.

What if my dentist gets pregnant, though? I mean, that'd be sort of unexpected since he's a 50-year-old man, so it would be more likely that he's hiding Cinnabons under his work shirt, but...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 09:40:29 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 09:39:50 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 09:19:54 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 09:18:52 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 09:07:49 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 21, 2022, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 21, 2022, 06:05:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2022, 08:12:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 20, 2022, 05:16:28 PM
the increased surface area of a curly fry means that they get fried into hard, inedible rocks far more frequently than standard fries.

Yes, and those crunchy ones down at the bottom are the BEST!  YummmmmmmMMY!

Generally speaking, I don't care for any food that makes my teeth hurt.
Curly fries hurt your teeth?  You should see a dentist.

They do when Arby's fries them so long they form a substance you could armor a tank with.
Um...they aren't like that.  See the dentist.

My dentist recommends I don't eat at Arby's.

Not because of anything to do with my teeth, but because it's Arby's.
Your teeth need some serious help.

What if my dentist gets pregnant, though? I mean, that'd be sort of unexpected since he's a 50-year-old man, so it's more likely that he's hiding Cinnabons under his work shirt, but...
Well-played.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: XamotCGC on May 21, 2022, 10:53:44 PM
Hardee's/Carl Jr's has a pretty good curly fries.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: english si on May 22, 2022, 03:51:45 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 21, 2022, 03:25:21 PMRegarding Kim Kardashian, I never understood why so many dudes a decade ago were into her.
"She may go on quests with dwarves and have a wizard friend named Gandalf, but she is not a hobbit!" - A gay fish

Photoshop.

(Of course if she actually did go on quests and was pals with Gandalf, a lot of men would find that attractive even if she though she's short, squat and not a great beauty. Even if she had hairy feet like a hobbit has! She wouldn't need to publish loads of touched up photos of her dressed and posed seductively/stripperly if she was interesting like that).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 23, 2022, 04:27:15 AM
"Memory foam" for insole shoe padding. Feels good but it just seems to wear out twice as quick, and there's no good replacement insert...except for a new pair of shoes.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on May 23, 2022, 07:59:08 AM
I've never found curly fries to be hard as a rock. If anything, sometimes they're more soft and boingy, especially the tightly-wound ones (OK, that just sounds bad...  :-D)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 23, 2022, 03:06:58 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 20, 2022, 11:00:58 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 20, 2022, 08:24:54 PM
The Grateful Dead.

Where do you hide something from a Deadhead?

Under a bar of soap.
What's orange and yellow and looks good on Deadheads?

Fire.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 23, 2022, 03:12:59 PM
Quote from: cwf1701 on May 21, 2022, 12:28:35 PM
Aaron Rodgers. IMO, the more deserving person who should have won the NFL MVP in 2021 is Cooper Kupp of the Rams.

Quote from: thspfc on May 21, 2022, 01:44:33 PM
MVP stands for "Most Valuable Player" . Who is more valuable to their team?

Quote from: XamotCGC on May 21, 2022, 03:17:03 PM
The Kardashian's

Amusing take.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 23, 2022, 03:32:32 PM
Wegmans
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on May 23, 2022, 04:12:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 23, 2022, 03:32:32 PM
Wegmans

This isn't the "properly rated" thread.  :-P
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on May 23, 2022, 08:21:43 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 23, 2022, 04:12:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 23, 2022, 03:32:32 PM
Wegmans

This isn't the "properly rated" thread.  :-P

He knows. And I agree with him.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: XamotCGC on May 23, 2022, 09:31:45 PM
Turning right on red.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 23, 2022, 09:52:49 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 23, 2022, 09:31:45 PM
Turning right on red.
Pffffffffffffffffffft.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 23, 2022, 09:58:34 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 23, 2022, 09:31:45 PM
Turning right on red.

One of those things you don't miss until you don't have it internationally. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bm7 on May 24, 2022, 05:32:01 PM
The Bahamas. I've never been there, but I'm not sure why someone would choose to vacation there over other Caribbean islands that aren't flatter than Illinois, like the Virgin Islands or Puerto Rico.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 24, 2022, 05:34:01 PM
Quote from: bm7 on May 24, 2022, 05:32:01 PM
The Bahamas. I've never been there, but I'm not sure why someone would choose to vacation there over other Caribbean islands that aren't flatter than Illinois, like the Virgin Islands or Puerto Rico.

The Florida Keys had that same flat issue.  The idea I got from living there was that you were supposed to either boat or relax in air conditioning.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 24, 2022, 05:35:50 PM
Quote from: bm7 on May 24, 2022, 05:32:01 PM
The Bahamas. I've never been there, but I'm not sure why someone would choose to vacation there over other Caribbean islands that aren't flatter than Illinois, like the Virgin Islands or Puerto Rico.

I imagine most of the reason someone would go stay on an island is because it's in the ocean, the surface of which is usually flat.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 24, 2022, 05:43:29 PM
Speaking of travel, I'll put this out there for overrated things:

Traveling to countries (for Americans) where English is the predominant language. Very overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 24, 2022, 06:18:59 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 24, 2022, 05:43:29 PM
Speaking of travel, I'll put this out there for overrated things:

Traveling to countries (for Americans) where English is the predominant language. Very overrated.
...it depends.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on May 24, 2022, 06:41:54 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 24, 2022, 05:35:50 PM
Quote from: bm7 on May 24, 2022, 05:32:01 PM
The Bahamas. I've never been there, but I'm not sure why someone would choose to vacation there over other Caribbean islands that aren't flatter than Illinois, like the Virgin Islands or Puerto Rico.

I imagine most of the reason someone would go stay on an island is because it's in the ocean, the surface of which is usually flat.

You haven't been to Illinois Island, eh?

:bigass:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 24, 2022, 08:27:54 PM
Quote from: bm7 on May 24, 2022, 05:32:01 PM
The Bahamas. I've never been there

A dangerous trend, there...  Just don't diss Saginaw County, MI.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: XamotCGC on May 24, 2022, 09:45:27 PM
Louisville

I'm having fun with this thread.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on May 24, 2022, 10:00:52 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 24, 2022, 09:45:27 PM
Louisville

I'm having fun with this thread.
How can it be overrated if it's almost never talked about outside of Kentucky?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 24, 2022, 10:59:36 PM
Quote from: thspfc on May 24, 2022, 10:00:52 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 24, 2022, 09:45:27 PM
Louisville

I'm having fun with this thread.
How can it be overrated if it's almost never talked about outside of Kentucky?
Basketball...baseball bats...It's pretty broadly spoken of outside of KY.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 24, 2022, 11:28:59 PM
Glenwood Canyon. It's pretty and all, but is it really this sort of mandated pilgrimage every roadgeek needs to drive, film, and promote their visit to?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 25, 2022, 12:41:33 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 24, 2022, 11:28:59 PM
Glenwood Canyon. It's pretty and all, but is it really this sort of mandated pilgrimage every roadgeek needs to drive, film, and promote their visit to?

No, I wouldn't even rate it as a top fifty scenic drive I've been on.  It's great by Interstate standards but a travesty so many in the road community lack a creative knack to find more unique roads.  There is so many more interesting roads in Colorado alone to not bother slogging I-70 like everyone else in road media.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 25, 2022, 06:51:49 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 24, 2022, 11:28:59 PM
Glenwood Canyon. It's pretty and all, but is it really this sort of mandated pilgrimage every roadgeek needs to drive, film, and promote their visit to?
Not a matter of scenery, but the engineering feat of it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on May 25, 2022, 07:45:31 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 24, 2022, 05:35:50 PM
Quote from: bm7 on May 24, 2022, 05:32:01 PM
The Bahamas. I've never been there, but I'm not sure why someone would choose to vacation there over other Caribbean islands that aren't flatter than Illinois, like the Virgin Islands or Puerto Rico.

I imagine most of the reason someone would go stay on an island is because it's in the ocean, the surface of which is usually flat.

I don't know, with waves and tides and tsunamis and all, maybe the ocean is less flat than Illinois?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hotdogPi on May 25, 2022, 07:47:25 AM
The ocean's flatness is determined by the depth of the surface underneath the water. Some parts are flat; some parts aren't. For example, the ocean near a volcanic island is not flat.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 25, 2022, 08:14:05 AM
Quote from: 1 on May 25, 2022, 07:47:25 AM
The ocean's flatness is determined by the depth of the surface underneath the water. Some parts are flat; some parts aren't. For example, the ocean near a volcanic island is not flat.

Yeah, but humans generally have no appreciation for variations in the ocean floor, since we can't exactly go there easily without special equipment.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 09:28:38 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 25, 2022, 12:41:33 AM

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 24, 2022, 11:28:59 PM
Glenwood Canyon. It's pretty and all, but is it really this sort of mandated pilgrimage every roadgeek needs to drive, film, and promote their visit to?

No, I wouldn't even rate it as a top fifty scenic drive I've been on.  It's great by Interstate standards but a travesty so many in the road community lack a creative knack to find more unique roads.  There is so many more interesting roads in Colorado alone to not bother slogging I-70 like everyone else in road media.

The bolded portion is the most important.  There are plenty of more scenic off-Interstate drives, but few Interstate drives rival Glenwood Canyon–and, honestly, some of those are just farther west on I-70 anyway.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 25, 2022, 09:31:03 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 24, 2022, 06:18:59 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 24, 2022, 05:43:29 PM
Speaking of travel, I'll put this out there for overrated things:

Traveling to countries (for Americans) where English is the predominant language. Very overrated.
...it depends.

On?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 09:32:27 AM
When cooking, "tasting as you go" is overrated (in most cases).

I almost never taste as I go.  On rare occasions–fewer than five per year, maybe–I over-salt something, but that's about it.  Most of those cases have to do with my having failed to account for reduction.

There are three things, however, that my wife and I have to taste-test multiple times along the way:  sloppy joe meat, chili, and coleslaw.  For some reason, finding the right vinegar balance is something that just never gets easier with practice for us.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 09:36:27 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 25, 2022, 09:31:03 AM

Quote from: abefroman329 on May 24, 2022, 06:18:59 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 24, 2022, 05:43:29 PM
Speaking of travel, I'll put this out there for overrated things:

Traveling to countries (for Americans) where English is the predominant language. Very overrated.

...it depends.

On?

I must say, it's a lot more intimidating of an idea for me to visit a place where I can't even pronounce the written language (Japan and China, for example) than a place where I merely can't understand the written or spoken language (Turkey and Sweden, for example).

It only takes a little while for me to learn an alphabet (I've long been able to pronounce Greek, I taught myself the Russian alphabet at some point, and I halfway succeeded at Arabic).  But an entirely different writing system is a whole other beast.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 25, 2022, 10:02:55 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 09:36:27 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 25, 2022, 09:31:03 AM

Quote from: abefroman329 on May 24, 2022, 06:18:59 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 24, 2022, 05:43:29 PM
Speaking of travel, I'll put this out there for overrated things:

Traveling to countries (for Americans) where English is the predominant language. Very overrated.

...it depends.

On?

I must say, it's a lot more intimidating of an idea for me to visit a place where I can't even pronounce the written language (Japan and China, for example) than a place where I merely can't understand the written or spoken language (Turkey and Sweden, for example).

It only takes a little while for me to learn an alphabet (I've long been able to pronounce Greek, I taught myself the Russian alphabet at some point, and I halfway succeeded at Arabic).  But an entirely different writing system is a whole other beast.

But I'd honestly say it doesn't matter. Almost everywhere in the world if you're going to any place that desires to have tourists, there are going to be people that speak some English. Also, universal hand signals for "eating", "sleeping", "how much", etc. are understood no matter what someone's mother tongue is.

The only place I've ever traveled where the majority of the people I interacted with didn't speak English at least a bit was in Tokyo, and I still spent four days there and had a great time. I guess for Japan it helps that they have picture menus a lot too.

I've bought tons of souvenirs, food in markets, etc. from people who didn't speak any English and you pretty much just grab what you want, go up to the "cashier", hand them some money, and they hand you change. It's not as big of a deal as some think.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 25, 2022, 10:15:12 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 09:28:38 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 25, 2022, 12:41:33 AM

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 24, 2022, 11:28:59 PM
Glenwood Canyon. It's pretty and all, but is it really this sort of mandated pilgrimage every roadgeek needs to drive, film, and promote their visit to?

No, I wouldn't even rate it as a top fifty scenic drive I've been on.  It's great by Interstate standards but a travesty so many in the road community lack a creative knack to find more unique roads.  There is so many more interesting roads in Colorado alone to not bother slogging I-70 like everyone else in road media.

The bolded portion is the most important.  There are plenty of more scenic off-Interstate drives, but few Interstate drives rival Glenwood Canyon–and, honestly, some of those are just farther west on I-70 anyway.

Three Interstate corridors come to mind that subjectively I think beat Glenwood Canyon for scenery:

-  I-70 in the San Rafael Swell.  This segment also has the distinction of really being the only road through corridor as well. 
-  I-H3 is incredibly pretty and an engineering marvel unto itself with thing all those viaducts.
-  I-15 in the Virgin River Gorge is one of the few scenic corridors that exceeds the US Route before it. 

Some other notables that come to mind in no particular order:

-  I-84 along the Columbia River.
-  I-5 through the Sacramento River Canyon.
-  I-5 through Grapevine Canyon and Tejon Pass.
-  I-8 east of San Diego descending to Imperial Valley.
-  I-80 in the Sierra Nevada Mountains.
-  I-15 through Cajon Pass.
-  I-90 Snoquamie Pass.

My issue with the prevalence of I-70 road media is two fold.  One content road creators who are freeway centric tend to overlook a lot of the corridors listed above.  Secondly a lot of road content creators come off as "samey"  hyping Glenwood Canyon to degree that they do.

Maybe it's me, but I could go visit Colorado and be fine not including Glenwood Canyon.  I've seen people in the road community complain or outright cancel trips because there was a Glenwood Canyon closure.  That all seems incredibly short sighted, as in they don't have the knowledge or desire to string a bunch scenic highways including Glenwood Canyon together.

Granted, maybe I'm just spun up after having a debate someone who is centering a Interstate-only trip around visiting a Buc-ee's.  So maybe I'm in not such a great frame of mind when it comes to mainstream road media right now.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 10:24:40 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 25, 2022, 10:15:12 AM
Three Interstate corridors come to mind that subjectively I think beat Glenwood Canyon for scenery:

-  I-70 in the San Rafael Swell.  This segment also has the distinction of really being the only road through corridor as well. 
-  I-H3 is incredibly pretty and an engineering marvel unto itself with thing all those viaducts.
-  I-15 in the Virgin River Gorge is one of the few scenic corridors that exceeds the US Route before it. 

I also love I-70 through De Beque Canyon.  As I mentioned, though, it's awfully close to Glenwood Canyon.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 25, 2022, 11:48:47 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 25, 2022, 09:31:03 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 24, 2022, 06:18:59 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 24, 2022, 05:43:29 PM
Speaking of travel, I'll put this out there for overrated things:

Traveling to countries (for Americans) where English is the predominant language. Very overrated.
...it depends.

On?
I agree that any country where English is the predominant language because a high amount of Americans travel there (see, e.g. The Bahamas) are very overrated.  But I wouldn't say that Great Britain and Ireland are overrated.  Or Hong Kong.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 11:53:26 AM
Perhaps (and especially based on his subsequent comments) he meant not that the destinations are overrated, but that people put an overrated emphasis on making sure they can easily communicate in English at their destination.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 25, 2022, 11:54:21 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 25, 2022, 10:02:55 AMThe only place I've ever traveled where the majority of the people I interacted with didn't speak English at least a bit was in Tokyo, and I still spent four days there and had a great time. I guess for Japan it helps that they have picture menus a lot too.
A high number of Japanese people don't speak English, but they can still read and comprehend writing in English. Frankly, I didn't find there to be much of a language barrier in Japan at all.

Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 25, 2022, 10:02:55 AMI've bought tons of souvenirs, food in markets, etc. from people who didn't speak any English and you pretty much just grab what you want, go up to the "cashier", hand them some money, and they hand you change. It's not as big of a deal as some think.
And they'll add on the gringo tax, but you know what?  I don't blame them at all.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 25, 2022, 12:11:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 11:53:26 AM
Perhaps (and especially based on his subsequent comments) he meant not that the destinations are overrated, but that people put an overrated emphasis on making sure they can easily communicate in English at their destination.

This is what I meant. The two weirdest questions I always got when I was traveling a ton internationally were:
A) Do they speak English there?
B) What's the exchange rate?

For A), who cares? You can get around just fine if you don't know the language.
For B), even more who cares. If it's 30 million widgets to the dollar, but a meal costs 500 trillion widgets, it's not like the exchange rate is good.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 25, 2022, 12:27:17 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 25, 2022, 10:15:12 AM
My issue with the prevalence of I-70 road media is two fold.  One content road creators who are freeway centric tend to overlook a lot of the corridors listed above.  Secondly a lot of road content creators come off as "samey"  hyping Glenwood Canyon to degree that they do.

I think a lot of it is because more people will give attention to something with familiarity or because the subject already gets a lot of discussion. Naturally, Interstates or something happening in a Big City Metro gets more attention than a bunch of two-lanes out in rural South Dakota. (I only mention that because I've posted about both on social media in the past year, and I'm not very active in doing so.)

Glenwood Canyon's I-70 is "pilgrimage worthy" for similar reasons that Breezewood, Interstate 238, or Route 66 are over-discussed in our hobby. But that really doesn't take anything away from Glenwood Canyon versus the opportunity to take Highway 82 instead. Rather, because it's unexpected that a critical point in the Interstate System has a lot of fascinating beauty surrounding it. It still means that a very low percentage of the overall system can be regarded in such a manner.

Some are fine with just simplistic meme-posting about potholes, route/bridge renaming, or how much more terrible their traffic is compared to another city, because it gets quick likes and the comments rarely get better from there.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 25, 2022, 01:39:07 PM
Quote from: formulanone on May 25, 2022, 12:27:17 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 25, 2022, 10:15:12 AM
My issue with the prevalence of I-70 road media is two fold.  One content road creators who are freeway centric tend to overlook a lot of the corridors listed above.  Secondly a lot of road content creators come off as "samey"  hyping Glenwood Canyon to degree that they do.

I think a lot of it is because more people will give attention to something with familiarity or because the subject already gets a lot of discussion. Naturally, Interstates or something happening in a Big City Metro gets more attention than a bunch of two-lanes out in rural South Dakota. (I only mention that because I've posted about both on social media in the past year, and I'm not very active in doing so.)

Glenwood Canyon's I-70 is "pilgrimage worthy" for similar reasons that Breezewood, Interstate 238, or Route 66 are over-discussed in our hobby. But that really doesn't take anything away from Glenwood Canyon versus the opportunity to take Highway 82 instead. b
Rather, because it's unexpected that a critical point in the Interstate System has a lot of fascinating beauty surrounding it. It still means that a very low percentage of the overall system can be regarded in such a manner.

Some are fine with just simplistic meme-posting about potholes, route/bridge renaming, or how much more terrible their traffic is compared to another city, because it gets quick likes and the comments rarely get better from there.

An observation I've had about road media sites is they kind of want the same thing and not much variation.  That tends to be things like you stated in your reply with very little deviation. I've noticed with what I do on Gribblenation unless I do a popular corridor (example the totally bore that is I-238) it doesn't get much interest in purely Roadgeek type groups.  I have noticed that regional and historical groups are far more into things like the example you have with the CO 82.  In our case on Gribblenation I would argue that we tend to cater towards the more historical aspect anyways.  That historic/back road angle is a significant reason I don't post our stuff on major Roadgeek pages too often, very few care.  The fact that Adam's Buc-ee's critique got a ton of views on Roadgeek pages might be telling in what the mainstream road community actually is. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on May 25, 2022, 02:35:08 PM
Quote from: formulanone on May 25, 2022, 12:27:17 PM
Some are fine with just simplistic meme-posting about potholes, route/bridge renaming, or how much more terrible their traffic is compared to another city, because it gets quick likes and the comments rarely get better from there.

That would be something I find pretty irritating: the incessant need to assume *your* city somehow has the worst potholes, the worst traffic, the worst drivers, etc. Pretty much every city has junky drivers; pretty much every city has potholes here and there; pretty much every city has stretches of bad traffic. Are some cities objectively/subjectively worse? For sure, but I always have to roll my eyes when I see some kind of meme about bad traffic, and it's like I-70 through Indy -- like, is it really that bad, or do you simply have no concept of what really constitutes bad traffic?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on May 25, 2022, 02:37:55 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 24, 2022, 10:59:36 PM
Quote from: thspfc on May 24, 2022, 10:00:52 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 24, 2022, 09:45:27 PM
Louisville

I'm having fun with this thread.
How can it be overrated if it's almost never talked about outside of Kentucky?
Basketball...baseball bats...It's pretty broadly spoken of outside of KY.

About the only time I think of Louisville is the weekend of the Kentucky Derby, an event I haven't seen even on TV in a couple decades. The other times are when it makes the news like after the Breonna Taylor killing. I don't know how it can be overrated when I rarely think of it at all and the only thing I like about Louisville is there's a Dee Snider Freeway which is sadly not named for the Twisted Sister frontman.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 25, 2022, 02:39:27 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 25, 2022, 02:35:08 PM
Quote from: formulanone on May 25, 2022, 12:27:17 PM
Some are fine with just simplistic meme-posting about potholes, route/bridge renaming, or how much more terrible their traffic is compared to another city, because it gets quick likes and the comments rarely get better from there.

That would be something I find pretty irritating: the incessant need to assume *your* city somehow has the worst potholes, the worst traffic, the worst drivers, etc. Pretty much every city has junky drivers; pretty much every city has potholes here and there; pretty much every city has stretches of bad traffic. Are some cities objectively/subjectively worse? For sure, but I always have to roll my eyes when I see some kind of meme about bad traffic, and it's like I-70 through Indy -- like, is it really that bad, or do you simply have no concept of what really constitutes bad traffic?

This meme for Florida Interstates had no business being shared as much as it was and living as long as it did. 

https://www.facebook.com/550983030/posts/pfbid02fuzkuNSZH9hSMSUyrVuKRHE5qFHbaa9BhsV9hJ4kB7kHpPKb87j9seiJNWxGUP76l/?d=n

One of the most interesting aspects I've found about moving as much I have in my adult life is how much my frame reference has widened.  Florida by far had the most boring tamest and probably flattest roadway network of any state I lived in.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on May 25, 2022, 02:47:45 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 10:24:40 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 25, 2022, 10:15:12 AM
Three Interstate corridors come to mind that subjectively I think beat Glenwood Canyon for scenery:

-  I-70 in the San Rafael Swell.  This segment also has the distinction of really being the only road through corridor as well. 
-  I-H3 is incredibly pretty and an engineering marvel unto itself with thing all those viaducts.
-  I-15 in the Virgin River Gorge is one of the few scenic corridors that exceeds the US Route before it. 

I also love I-70 through De Beque Canyon.  As I mentioned, though, it's awfully close to Glenwood Canyon.

I think a lot of people are dissing Glenwood Canyon to be iconoclastic. Glenwood Canyon is awesome. Are there other great routes? Yes. Personally, I prefer I-15 through the Virgin River Canyon. But that doesn't diminish the awesomeness of I-70 through Glenwood Canyon. It's like saying Peyton Manning wasn't all that great because Tom Brady. Just appreciate the beauty and the engineering feat of I-70 through Glenwood Canyon; both aspects are amazing and worthy of the accolades. The way people here are talking, I may just post that Glenwood Canyon is underrated on that thread because AA Roads roadgeeks don't appreciate it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 25, 2022, 02:50:34 PM
Quote from: skluth on May 25, 2022, 02:47:45 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 10:24:40 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 25, 2022, 10:15:12 AM
Three Interstate corridors come to mind that subjectively I think beat Glenwood Canyon for scenery:

-  I-70 in the San Rafael Swell.  This segment also has the distinction of really being the only road through corridor as well. 
-  I-H3 is incredibly pretty and an engineering marvel unto itself with thing all those viaducts.
-  I-15 in the Virgin River Gorge is one of the few scenic corridors that exceeds the US Route before it. 

I also love I-70 through De Beque Canyon.  As I mentioned, though, it's awfully close to Glenwood Canyon.

I think a lot of people are dissing Glenwood Canyon to be iconoclastic. Glenwood Canyon is awesome. Are there other great routes? Yes. Personally, I prefer I-15 through the Virgin River Canyon. But that doesn't diminish the awesomeness of I-70 through Glenwood Canyon. It's like saying Peyton Manning wasn't all that great because Tom Brady. Just appreciate the beauty and the engineering feat of I-70 through Glenwood Canyon; both aspects are amazing and worthy of the accolades. The way people here are talking, I may just post that Glenwood Canyon is underrated on that thread because AA Roads roadgeeks don't appreciate it.

Trail Ridge is overrated too if adds a sense of evenness.  It was overrun so much by annoying tourists that the NPS ended up implementing a timed entry system.  Although I would be lying if I ever said that I would prefer Glenwood Canyon over Trail Ridge. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 25, 2022, 03:47:51 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 25, 2022, 02:35:08 PM
Quote from: formulanone on May 25, 2022, 12:27:17 PM
Some are fine with just simplistic meme-posting about potholes, route/bridge renaming, or how much more terrible their traffic is compared to another city, because it gets quick likes and the comments rarely get better from there.

That would be something I find pretty irritating: the incessant need to assume *your* city somehow has the worst potholes, the worst traffic, the worst drivers, etc. Pretty much every city has junky drivers; pretty much every city has potholes here and there; pretty much every city has stretches of bad traffic. Are some cities objectively/subjectively worse? For sure, but I always have to roll my eyes when I see some kind of meme about bad traffic, and it's like I-70 through Indy -- like, is it really that bad, or do you simply have no concept of what really constitutes bad traffic?

To be fair, if you mostly just kick up dust in your own area, then that's what you know. To be fair, places like Phoenix and Miami don't have many potholes.

The average {driver in one area} isn't going to know much about {other place 800 miles away} traffic woes, but they can go on about their own highway issues. Maybe we do, but it's fair to say that 98-99% probably don't have personal experience with it (with the exception of places like New York City, LA, et al).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 03:53:42 PM
Clothes are overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 25, 2022, 04:05:53 PM
Quote from: skluth on May 25, 2022, 02:37:55 PMthere's a Dee Snider Freeway which is sadly not named for the Twisted Sister frontman.
That's a heck of a coincidence.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on May 25, 2022, 06:24:24 PM
Beaches are overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 06:59:04 PM
Most breakfast cereal is overrated.  Most of them, even if I fill up the bowl to the top, leave me hungry again well before lunchtime rolls around.  There are only a few kinds that manage to actually leave me satisfied.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 25, 2022, 07:59:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 06:59:04 PM
Most breakfast cereal is overrated.  Most of them, even if I fill up the bowl to the top, leave me hungry again well before lunchtime rolls around.  There are only a few kinds that manage to actually leave me satisfied.

I actually tend to treat breakfast cereal as a snack, to be munched on like potato chips or whatever. Instead of putting it in a bowl with milk, I just eat it by hand and then have the milk in a glass.

Quote from: hbelkins on May 25, 2022, 06:24:24 PM
Beaches are overrated.

Oceans, however, are underrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on May 25, 2022, 08:02:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 03:53:42 PM
Clothes are overrated.

Well at the very least, spending a ton of money on "name brand" clothes that are the same or only marginally better quality is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on May 25, 2022, 08:04:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 25, 2022, 06:24:24 PM
Beaches are overrated.

It depends. Like a lot of things, certainly so if it's incredibly crowded, but quite the opposite at sunrise or sunset when you can have the whole thing mostly to yourself.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: gonealookin on May 25, 2022, 08:10:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 25, 2022, 06:24:24 PM
Beaches are overrated.

Since I moved to a snowy-winter environment I have been doing about three week-long beach vacations per year and have loved them all, errrrr well most of them anyway.  A good book and a cooler full of soda and beer whisk so many cares away.

Edit to add:  I guess the one I wasn't that impressed with in the last few years was Honolulu/Waikiki.  And that was at the depths of the Covid-19 issues when it was probably as empty as it would ever be.  Hawaii has so many beautiful beaches on Maui and the Big Island, but I just didn't care much for Waikiki's urban environment.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 08:47:14 AM
1. Dating, especially before college.

High school dating is a complete waste of time, money, and effort that could be better directed towards academics, extracurriculars, or community service. Statistically speaking, most high-school romances don't even last very long anyway; those idealized "we met in high school and went to prom together and now we're happily married with children" tales don't represent the average Joe's experience. Middle school dating is even more so. For any of you who are still in grade school and are reading this, try to hang out with friends instead, even if those friends include people of the opposite gender. Those are more durable and won't be as heated as romantic relationships.

2. Traveling to Europe, a lot of the time.

Europe might seem like a magical wonderland and all, but there are many parts about it that they don't tell you about up front. No air-conditioning in hotels, poverty, scams/tourist traps, political unrest, etc. This is probably especially true for London, Paris, and Rome. I can anticipate that this one's probably going to end up really controversial arguments, but honestly, I just don't get the appeal of a lot of the attractions there, at least not in the same way I do with those found in countries like China or Japan. And northern Europe doesn't even have good cuisine. I have limited time in my lifespan, and I'd like to spend it on experiences that I'm actually likely to find worthwhile.

3. Living in New York City.

Honestly, living in big cities anywhere. I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure this one is self-explanatory. At least in the United States; I might actually be willing to live in somewhere like Shanghai... before the massive lockdown, anyway.

4. California (living, and possibly even visiting).

This one also warrants little explanation, and refers as much to the wildfire-ravaged national parks in the east as to the polluted metropolises near the coast.

5. Honestly, living in sunny states (e.g. AZ, NM, FL, and possibly even TX) in general.

It can't just be me who doesn't like the heat, right?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 26, 2022, 09:05:05 AM
Interestingly the estimates for the overall acres burned annually before European settlement in California is typically thought to be between 4.4 million to 12 million.  Apparently though recent climate data shows a drying trend in wooded areas that has been worse in the past:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2020/09/10/why-environmental-alarmism-makes-forest-fires-worse/?sh=6ad480673712#:~:text=For%20the%20last%20half%20of%20the%2020th%20Century%2C,in%20California%20annually%20before%20the%20arrival%20of%20Europeans.

2,569,009 acres last year wasn't really enjoyable but the worst in terms of my allergies was when Paradise burned.  I don't know what was in those homes but it got bad enough that the smoke was causing nosebleeds eventually.

Heat and cold are interesting because you can to some extent climatize yourself to both.  Everyone thinks I'm nuts running my AC at 87F or not all during the summer in Fresno.  It sucks at first but eventually you do get used to it with exposure.  I recall the same phenomenon also being true when we really didn't have modern central air in Michigan and the house was a perpetual 50-55F in Michigan with one fire place burn every evening.

Dating didn't really get better until I was about 21-23 and started to have adult levels of self confidence.  Lacking self assurance really sucks when you are trying to date people. 

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 26, 2022, 09:05:50 AM


Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 08:47:14 AM
1. Dating, especially before college.

High school dating is a complete waste of time, money, and effort that could be better directed towards academics, extracurriculars, or community service. Statistically speaking, most high-school romances don't even last very long anyway; those idealized "we met in high school and went to prom together and now we're happily married with children" tales don't represent the average Joe's experience. Middle school dating is even more so. For any of you who are still in grade school and are reading this, try to hang out with friends instead, even if those friends include people of the opposite gender. Those are more durable and won't be as heated as romantic relationships.

2. Traveling to Europe, a lot of the time.

Europe might seem like a magical wonderland and all, but there are many parts about it that they don't tell you about up front. No air-conditioning in hotels, poverty, scams/tourist traps, political unrest, etc. This is probably especially true for London, Paris, and Rome. I can anticipate that this one's probably going to end up really controversial arguments, but honestly, I just don't get the appeal of a lot of the attractions there, at least not in the same way I do with those found in countries like China or Japan. And northern Europe doesn't even have good cuisine. I have limited time in my lifespan, and I'd like to spend it on experiences that I'm actually likely to find worthwhile.

3. Living in New York City.

Honestly, living in big cities anywhere. I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure this one is self-explanatory. At least in the United States; I might actually be willing to live in somewhere like Shanghai... before the massive lockdown, anyway.

4. California.

This one also warrants little explanation, and refers as much to the wildfire-ravaged national parks in the east as to the polluted metropolises near the coast.

1. My unpopular opinion is that everyone should go through dumping someone (not being dumped) at least once before marriage.  Lots of people out there in misery after a while trapped in the "my partner is my only soulmate out there, no matter how terrible they are" mentality.  Dating in high school can get you out of that idea.

2.  I've enjoyed my times visiting Europe.  Poverty and scams certainly aren't constrained to Europe...

3.  Depends.  My daughter lived in Brooklyn for a while and loved it.  But, for others, sure, it's the loneliest and most expensive place in the country.

4.  Meh, too harsh on it.  Definitely has its drawbacks, but I loved my time living in San Francisco.  Seems more properly rated for most people (i.e., those that aren't still in the 1960s mentality of a paradise of beaches, blondes and Disney), especially given the news out of there going back almost 30 years.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 10:06:13 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 25, 2022, 08:02:17 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 03:53:42 PM
Clothes are overrated.

Well at the very least, spending a ton of money on "name brand" clothes that are the same or only marginally better quality is overrated.

Sorry, I should clarify.  Wearing clothes is overrated.

Honestly, we'd be fine half the year without them.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hotdogPi on May 26, 2022, 10:24:20 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 10:06:13 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 25, 2022, 08:02:17 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 03:53:42 PM
Clothes are overrated.

Well at the very least, spending a ton of money on "name brand" clothes that are the same or only marginally better quality is overrated.

Sorry, I should clarify.  Wearing clothes is overrated.

Honestly, we'd be fine half the year without them.

Not wearing clothes everywhere makes it easier to cut skin by scraping an object. Depending on where you are, sunburn could also be an issue.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 10:26:23 AM
Quote from: 1 on May 26, 2022, 10:24:20 AM
Depending on where you are, sunburn could also be an issue.

My forearms seem to do just fine.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kurumi on May 26, 2022, 11:59:53 AM
"We Built This City" is slightly overrated on so many "Worst Songs Ever" lists.

"Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now," by the same artist, is even worse. That power chord at the key change...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 26, 2022, 12:06:02 PM
Quote from: kurumi on May 26, 2022, 11:59:53 AM
"We Built This City" is slightly overrated on so many "Worst Songs Ever" lists.

"Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now," by the same artist, is even worse. That power chord at the key change...
I agree - I think WBTC gets more hate because it's supposed to be an anti-corporate song, but it's performed by a band that was at peak corporate at the time.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 08:47:14 AM
1. Dating, especially before college.

High school dating is a complete waste of time, money, and effort that could be better directed towards academics, extracurriculars, or community service. Statistically speaking, most high-school romances don't even last very long anyway; those idealized "we met in high school and went to prom together and now we're happily married with children" tales don't represent the average Joe's experience. Middle school dating is even more so. For any of you who are still in grade school and are reading this, try to hang out with friends instead, even if those friends include people of the opposite gender. Those are more durable and won't be as heated as romantic relationships.

2. Traveling to Europe, a lot of the time.

Europe might seem like a magical wonderland and all, but there are many parts about it that they don't tell you about up front. No air-conditioning in hotels, poverty, scams/tourist traps, political unrest, etc. This is probably especially true for London, Paris, and Rome. I can anticipate that this one's probably going to end up really controversial arguments, but honestly, I just don't get the appeal of a lot of the attractions there, at least not in the same way I do with those found in countries like China or Japan. And northern Europe doesn't even have good cuisine. I have limited time in my lifespan, and I'd like to spend it on experiences that I'm actually likely to find worthwhile.

3. Living in New York City.

Honestly, living in big cities anywhere. I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure this one is self-explanatory. At least in the United States; I might actually be willing to live in somewhere like Shanghai... before the massive lockdown, anyway.

4. California (living, and possibly even visiting).

This one also warrants little explanation, and refers as much to the wildfire-ravaged national parks in the east as to the polluted metropolises near the coast.

5. Honestly, living in sunny states (e.g. AZ, NM, FL, and possibly even TX) in general.

It can't just be me who doesn't like the heat, right?

6. The season of spring.

Allergies.

7. The season of summer.

Again, it can't just be me who doesn't like the heat, right?

8. Drinking alcohol.

I'm going to sound like a lot of members' mothers right here, but I honestly don't see the appeal of drinking merrily and getting wasted. It's not a healthy habit at all. Heck, even caffeine might fall under this category. (I swear I'm not Mormon!)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 12:20:36 PM
Quote from: kurumi on May 26, 2022, 11:59:53 AM
"We Built This City" is slightly overrated on so many "Worst Songs Ever" lists.

When I read this, that song was literally playing on my computer right then.  I'm partway through a "BILLBOARD - TOP 100 HITS OF 1985 - PART 1/4" playlist.



Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:14:26 PM
8. Drinking alcohol.

I'm going to sound like a lot of members' mothers right here, but I honestly don't see the appeal of drinking merrily and getting wasted. It's not a healthy habit at all. Heck, even caffeine might fall under this category. (I swear I'm not Mormon!)

Those are two very different things.

I've never understood the appeal of getting wasted either.  Even just a headache the next morning is bad enough to keep me within my limit.  And acting like a complete fool of myself is not something that appeals to me.

But having just one or two drinks is a very pleasant thing.  It relaxes me, it makes me more chatty (for better or worse), and–when consumed with a bit of charcuterie or some olives and cheese–can give me a brief moment of feeling "fancy".
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 12:24:48 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 08:47:14 AM
1. Dating, especially before college.

High school dating is a complete waste of time, money, and effort that could be better directed towards academics, extracurriculars, or community service.

I mean, I feel like dating in high school is specifically for some of those extracurriculars...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 12:30:25 PM
Maybe it's because I was unpopular in high school, but I didn't think much of dating in high school.  It wasn't until my senior year that I even really considered being in a romantic relationship.

But, after high school, I kind of re-invented myself as a person, and the impression I've gotten on this forum is that I'm not alone in that.  It's not necessarily true that the "right" person for you in high school will still be right for you three years later.

I should clarify that I think the purpose of dating is to determine whether or not you're compatible with the other person as a potential married couple.  Dating just for fun is a totally foreign concept to me.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 12:24:48 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 08:47:14 AM
1. Dating, especially before college.

High school dating is a complete waste of time, money, and effort that could be better directed towards academics, extracurriculars, or community service.

I mean, I feel like dating in high school is specifically for some of those extracurriculars...

Are we on the same page here? By "extracurriculars," I'm referring to stuff like sports and clubs in school.

Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 12:30:25 PM
Maybe it's because I was unpopular in high school, but I didn't think much of dating in high school.  It wasn't until my senior year that I even really considered being in a romantic relationship.

But, after high school, I kind of re-invented myself as a person, and the impression I've gotten on this forum is that I'm not alone in that.  It's not necessarily true that the "right" person for you in high school will still be right for you three years later.

I should clarify that I think the purpose of dating is to determine whether or not you're compatible with the other person as a potential married couple.  Dating just for fun is a totally foreign concept to me.

I never dated in high school. I sometimes got worried that I was missing out, but... call me a dumb Asian nerd for saying this, but, well, I'd rather focus on what can actually help me succeed when I grow up and advance in the Game of Life. Ultimately, the "nerds" win in life over the "jocks", anyways.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 12:49:43 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 12:24:48 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 08:47:14 AM
1. Dating, especially before college.

High school dating is a complete waste of time, money, and effort that could be better directed towards academics, extracurriculars, or community service.

I mean, I feel like dating in high school is specifically for some of those extracurriculars...

Are we on the same page here? By "extracurriculars," I'm referring to stuff like sports and clubs in school.

He's talking about fucking.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on May 26, 2022, 12:52:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 10:06:13 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 25, 2022, 08:02:17 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 03:53:42 PM
Clothes are overrated.

Well at the very least, spending a ton of money on "name brand" clothes that are the same or only marginally better quality is overrated.

Sorry, I should clarify.  Wearing clothes is overrated.

Honestly, we'd be fine half the year without them.

No, not for me anyway.  Need clothes in winter because it's cold.  Need clothes in summer for protection against skin cancer.  Not that fond of sunscreen and I'd rather only have to wear it on my head and maybe arms.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:53:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 12:49:43 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 12:24:48 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 08:47:14 AM
1. Dating, especially before college.

High school dating is a complete waste of time, money, and effort that could be better directed towards academics, extracurriculars, or community service.

I mean, I feel like dating in high school is specifically for some of those extracurriculars...

Are we on the same page here? By "extracurriculars," I'm referring to stuff like sports and clubs in school.

He's talking about fucking.

9. Premarital sex.

Or, at least, pre-engagement sex. Again, sorry if I'm sounding like your parents, but... fuck fucking. :biggrin: Hard to pass the opportunity to say that. I'd rather sit out on a fleeting sense of temporary superficial primordial pleasure than to risk exposure to STDs like syphilis and AIDS, causing unplanned pregnancies, and ruining other people's lives. It's so upsetting how the age at which people have been getting into intimate relationships has been getting lower and lower over the years.

10. The 1980s.

80's culture isn't as "groovy" as a lot of people make it out to be, especially people who were born after the 80's.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 12:54:08 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:47:34 PM
I never dated in high school. I sometimes got worried that I was missing out, but... call me a dumb Asian nerd for saying this, but, well, I'd rather focus on what can actually help me succeed when I grow up and advance in the Game of Life. Ultimately, the "nerds" win in life over the "jocks", anyways.

That depends on your definition of 'success', which is not universal.  For a whole lot of people, finding a spouse and starting a family is a big part of succeeding and advancing in the Game of Life.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Big John on May 26, 2022, 12:55:07 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:14:26 PM
6. The season of spring.

Allergies.

Including grass pollen? :)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:57:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 12:54:08 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:47:34 PM
I never dated in high school. I sometimes got worried that I was missing out, but... call me a dumb Asian nerd for saying this, but, well, I'd rather focus on what can actually help me succeed when I grow up and advance in the Game of Life. Ultimately, the "nerds" win in life over the "jocks", anyways.

That depends on your definition of 'success', which is not universal.  For a whole lot of people, finding a spouse and starting a family is a big part of succeeding and advancing in the Game of Life.

Well, once you're mature enough and you're in a sufficiently stable financial position, then you can start dating. For the vast majority of people, this does not even occur until well into college, let alone high school. My parents didn't really go on casual dates, at least not in the modern sense of the term, and they didn't get married until they were about 35 or so. And they're not even that old. Call me whatever rude names you want, but that's what I'm doing as well.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:59:08 PM
Quote from: Big John on May 26, 2022, 12:55:07 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:14:26 PM
6. The season of spring.

Allergies.

Including grass pollen? :)

I already trash-talked warm weather enough in this thread, come on... :sombrero:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 26, 2022, 01:01:20 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:57:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 12:54:08 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:47:34 PM
I never dated in high school. I sometimes got worried that I was missing out, but... call me a dumb Asian nerd for saying this, but, well, I'd rather focus on what can actually help me succeed when I grow up and advance in the Game of Life. Ultimately, the "nerds" win in life over the "jocks", anyways.

That depends on your definition of 'success', which is not universal.  For a whole lot of people, finding a spouse and starting a family is a big part of succeeding and advancing in the Game of Life.

Well, once you're mature enough and you're in a sufficiently stable financial position, then you can start dating. For the vast majority of people, this does not even occur until well into college, let alone high school. My parents didn't really go on casual dates, at least not in the modern sense of the term, and they didn't get married until they were about 35 or so. And they're not even that old.
That's silly.  I got married early, had a couple of kids early and then was still poor enough when my kids went to college for them to qualify for financial aid.

People who delay marriage and kids until they're older are therefore setting themselves up for more expensive kids and then even more fatigue as they get into their 50s when their kids are teenagers.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 01:01:47 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:53:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 12:49:43 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 12:24:48 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 08:47:14 AM
1. Dating, especially before college.

High school dating is a complete waste of time, money, and effort that could be better directed towards academics, extracurriculars, or community service.

I mean, I feel like dating in high school is specifically for some of those extracurriculars...

Are we on the same page here? By "extracurriculars," I'm referring to stuff like sports and clubs in school.

He's talking about fucking.

9. Premarital sex.

Or, at least, pre-engagement sex. Again, sorry if I'm sounding like your parents, but... fuck fucking. :biggrin: Hard to pass the opportunity to say that. I'd rather sit out on a fleeting sense of temporary superficial primordial pleasure than to risk exposure to STDs like syphilis and AIDS, causing unplanned pregnancies, and ruining other people's lives. It's so upsetting how the age at which people have been getting into intimate relationships has been getting lower and lower over the years.

Mmm. You must be a lot of fun to hang out with.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 01:03:09 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 01:01:47 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:53:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 12:49:43 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 12:24:48 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 08:47:14 AM
1. Dating, especially before college.

High school dating is a complete waste of time, money, and effort that could be better directed towards academics, extracurriculars, or community service.

I mean, I feel like dating in high school is specifically for some of those extracurriculars...

Are we on the same page here? By "extracurriculars," I'm referring to stuff like sports and clubs in school.

He's talking about fucking.

9. Premarital sex.

Or, at least, pre-engagement sex. Again, sorry if I'm sounding like your parents, but... fuck fucking. :biggrin: Hard to pass the opportunity to say that. I'd rather sit out on a fleeting sense of temporary superficial primordial pleasure than to risk exposure to STDs like syphilis and AIDS, causing unplanned pregnancies, and ruining other people's lives. It's so upsetting how the age at which people have been getting into intimate relationships has been getting lower and lower over the years.

Mmm. You must be a lot of fun to hang out with.

:bigass:

In all seriousness, though, there are lots of ways to have fun as a young adult, and even date when you're mature enough, without sexual activity.

(Exhibit A: outdoor activities like hiking, kayaking, camping, fishing, mountain biking)
(Exhibit B: shopping)
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)
(Exhibit D: "Renaissance man" activities like creating artwork, sculpting statues, or writing literature)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on May 26, 2022, 01:06:01 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:53:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 12:49:43 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 12:24:48 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 08:47:14 AM
1. Dating, especially before college.

High school dating is a complete waste of time, money, and effort that could be better directed towards academics, extracurriculars, or community service.

I mean, I feel like dating in high school is specifically for some of those extracurriculars...

Are we on the same page here? By "extracurriculars," I'm referring to stuff like sports and clubs in school.

He's talking about fucking.

9. Premarital sex.

Or, at least, pre-engagement sex. Again, sorry if I'm sounding like your parents, but... fuck fucking. :biggrin: Hard to pass the opportunity to say that. I'd rather sit out on a fleeting sense of temporary superficial primordial pleasure than to risk exposure to STDs like syphilis and AIDS, causing unplanned pregnancies, and ruining other people's lives. It's so upsetting how the age at which people have been getting into intimate relationships has been getting lower and lower over the years.

Thanks for bringing the spice. I concur about premarital sex. I've seen it ruin people and cause so much unnecessary trauma and relationship-destroying drama. All for a fleeting pleasure that you feel gross after engaging in and immediately after you just want to do something else. I won't deny the allure of it, and people aren't perfect, but having the strength to resist it is a good skill to have. I think people tend to forget that sex is the most intimate physically you can be with someone. Why give that away so easily? I could go on.  :spin:

Merely dating (i.e., no sexual activities, just wanting to be close to someone) before high school is stupid. You don't have jobs, you don't have cars, you don't have anything. So just stop. During high school, depending on the maturity of the guy and girl involved, it could work out just fine. In most cases though, this definitely doesn't apply. But it's a case by case basis to me.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 01:09:05 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:57:47 PM
Well, once you're mature enough and you're in a sufficiently stable financial position, then you can start dating. For the vast majority of people, this does not even occur until well into college, let alone high school. My parents didn't really go on casual dates, at least not in the modern sense of the term, and they didn't get married until they were about 35 or so. And they're not even that old. Call me whatever rude names you want, but that's what I'm doing as well.

"A sufficiently stable financial position"?  What's that supposed to mean?

My wife and I were living paycheck to paycheck when we met;  I didn't even own a car.  I saved up for our wedding and honeymoon by taking cash out of my paychecks and putting it in an envelope in the closet.  When we got back from our honeymoon, we were broke again, living paycheck to paycheck.  We didn't have health insurance when we decided to start having children;  fortunately, she qualified for state aid during pregnancy.

After we got married, our plan was to wait a year until we could "afford" to have children.  A year came and went, and we had no more money than we did in the beginning.  So we made the decision to stop pretending we'd ever be able to "afford" it, and started a family anyway.  We now have three sons.

Our life together has not been a failure, from either of our perspectives.  We're quite happy.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 01:12:59 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 01:09:05 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:57:47 PM
Well, once you're mature enough and you're in a sufficiently stable financial position, then you can start dating. For the vast majority of people, this does not even occur until well into college, let alone high school. My parents didn't really go on casual dates, at least not in the modern sense of the term, and they didn't get married until they were about 35 or so. And they're not even that old. Call me whatever rude names you want, but that's what I'm doing as well.

"A sufficiently stable financial position"?  What's that supposed to mean?

My wife and I were living paycheck to paycheck when we met;  I didn't even own a car.  I saved up for our wedding and honeymoon by taking cash out of my paychecks and putting it in an envelope in the closet.  When we got back from our honeymoon, we were broke again, living paycheck to paycheck.  We didn't have health insurance when we decided to start having children;  fortunately, she qualified for state aid during pregnancy.

After we got married, our plan was to wait a year until we could "afford" to have children.  A year came and went, and we had no more money than we did in the beginning.  So we made the decision to stop pretending we'd ever be able to "afford" it, and started a family anyway.  We now have three sons.

Our life together has not been a failure, from either of our perspectives.  We're quite happy.

What I mean by that is that you're in a position where you're working a full-time job, compared to the period of your life where you have to devote most of your time studying. YMMV though!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on May 26, 2022, 01:13:41 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 01:03:09 PM
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)

Meh... Any overnight vacation that's one-on-one with a girlfriend just doesn't feel quite right personally. It would also be too... tempting, let's say. I'd rather save that stuff for married life. Day trips are cool though, I've done that before.

If I had the opportunity, I'd rather go on a trip with a group of friends.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 01:15:51 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 26, 2022, 01:13:41 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 01:03:09 PM
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)

Meh... Any overnight vacation that's one-on-one with a girlfriend just doesn't feel quite right personally. It would also be too... tempting, let's say. I'd rather save that stuff for married life. Day trips are cool though, I've done that before.

If I had the opportunity, I'd rather go on a trip with a group of friends.

That's what I did mean, sorry for not clarifying enough.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 01:34:42 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 01:12:59 PM
What I mean by that is that you're in a position where you're working a full-time job, compared to the period of your life where you have to devote most of your time studying. YMMV though!

If we use 16 as the age when women become most fertile, and if we use 18 as the age when they graduate high school and enter the workforce, then you're not really advocating very much of a change.  Instead, I'm going to assume you expect women to wait until after university to enter the workforce.  With our current societal expectations, that's a reasonable assumption.  So I'll go with a traditional four-year university track here.

Let's assume that a woman transitions from university to the workplace at age 22.  By that point, she's already 20% of the way to 35, which is roughly when there's a marked drop in fertility.  You're saying she shouldn't start dating until then.  OK, let's say it takes five years of dating before she finds "the one".  Then they have a one-year engagement before marriage.  By that point, she's already halfway to 35.  Half of her fertile years are already behind her.

Better, I think, would be to begin the dating process earlier on.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 26, 2022, 01:48:16 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 26, 2022, 01:01:20 PMI got married early, had a couple of kids early and then was still poor enough when my kids went to college for them to qualify for financial aid.

People who delay marriage and kids until they're older are therefore setting themselves up for more expensive kids and then even more fatigue as they get into their 50s when their kids are teenagers.

Eh, it worked for us. Everyone's mileage may vary. We chose to wait and be more financially secure...though obviously not everyone even gets that chance by nature and/or nurture. Things happen.

I'd argue that one's decision-making is apt for be far less rash and seasoned if you're older and more mature, but obviously society hasn't collapsed so being younger isn't all that bad an idea. Drawbacks to being older when starting a family is that you can be more set in your ways and inflexible, so one has to aware of the possibilities. Fatigue has not totally taken me over but having kids gave me some fresh perspectives so it's helped fight off the gentle stupor of aging.

It is also much easier to survive a day of work on 3-4 hours of sleep when you're younger than in one's thirties. Just saying.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:01:31 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 01:03:09 PM
:bigass:

In all seriousness, though, there are lots of ways to have fun as a young adult, and even date when you're mature enough, without sexual activity.

(Exhibit A: outdoor activities like hiking, kayaking, camping, fishing, mountain biking)
(Exhibit B: shopping)
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)
(Exhibit D: "Renaissance man" activities like creating artwork, sculpting statues, or writing literature)

Or you can realize that being sexual is a normal part of human behavior and you should try out all you can to figure out what you like and what you don't. I did all that stuff in high school, and got some too. If you're only consumed with sex, sure, that's not ideal. But you can easily mix it in to your myriad interests.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 26, 2022, 02:07:28 PM
Quote from: formulanone on May 26, 2022, 01:48:16 PMEh, it worked for us. Everyone's mileage may vary. We chose to wait and be more financially secure...though obviously not everyone even gets that chance by nature and/or nurture. Things happen.

I'd argue that one's decision-making is apt for be far less rash and seasoned if you're older and more mature, but obviously society hasn't collapsed so being younger isn't all that bad an idea. Drawbacks to being older when starting a family is that you can be more set in your ways and inflexible, so one has to aware of the possibilities. Fatigue has not totally taken me over but having kids gave me some fresh perspectives so it's helped fight off the gentle stupor of aging.


It is also much easier to survive a day of work on 3-4 hours of sleep when you're younger than in one's thirties. Just saying.

We got pregnant when I was 38 and my wife was 40, but that was six years after we met, so it wasn't really a conscious decision to wait till we were that old.

Setting everything else aside, getting pregnant at that exact time meant that I was able to take sixteen weeks' paid parental leave when Henry was born, and that makes up for a lot of the drawbacks of having a child later in life.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 02:07:57 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:01:31 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 01:03:09 PM
:bigass:

In all seriousness, though, there are lots of ways to have fun as a young adult, and even date when you're mature enough, without sexual activity.

(Exhibit A: outdoor activities like hiking, kayaking, camping, fishing, mountain biking)
(Exhibit B: shopping)
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)
(Exhibit D: "Renaissance man" activities like creating artwork, sculpting statues, or writing literature)

Or you can realize that being sexual is a normal part of human behavior and you should try out all you can to figure out what you like and what you don't. I did all that stuff in high school, and got some too. If you're only consumed with sex, sure, that's not ideal. But you can easily mix it in to your myriad interests.

I know, right. I have to admit that I'm surprised to see like three different inhibitory views on human sexuality all arguing with one another in this thread.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 26, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 02:07:57 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:01:31 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 01:03:09 PM
:bigass:

In all seriousness, though, there are lots of ways to have fun as a young adult, and even date when you're mature enough, without sexual activity.

(Exhibit A: outdoor activities like hiking, kayaking, camping, fishing, mountain biking)
(Exhibit B: shopping)
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)
(Exhibit D: "Renaissance man" activities like creating artwork, sculpting statues, or writing literature)

Or you can realize that being sexual is a normal part of human behavior and you should try out all you can to figure out what you like and what you don't. I did all that stuff in high school, and got some too. If you're only consumed with sex, sure, that's not ideal. But you can easily mix it in to your myriad interests.

I know, right. I have to admit that I'm surprised to see like three different repressive views on human sexuality all arguing with one another in this thread.
No one should have sex.  Ever.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 02:10:57 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 26, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 02:07:57 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:01:31 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 01:03:09 PM
:bigass:

In all seriousness, though, there are lots of ways to have fun as a young adult, and even date when you're mature enough, without sexual activity.

(Exhibit A: outdoor activities like hiking, kayaking, camping, fishing, mountain biking)
(Exhibit B: shopping)
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)
(Exhibit D: "Renaissance man" activities like creating artwork, sculpting statues, or writing literature)

Or you can realize that being sexual is a normal part of human behavior and you should try out all you can to figure out what you like and what you don't. I did all that stuff in high school, and got some too. If you're only consumed with sex, sure, that's not ideal. But you can easily mix it in to your myriad interests.

I know, right. I have to admit that I'm surprised to see like three different repressive views on human sexuality all arguing with one another in this thread.
No one should have sex.  Ever.

Okay, now there's four.  :-D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:11:04 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 02:07:57 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:01:31 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 01:03:09 PM
:bigass:

In all seriousness, though, there are lots of ways to have fun as a young adult, and even date when you're mature enough, without sexual activity.

(Exhibit A: outdoor activities like hiking, kayaking, camping, fishing, mountain biking)
(Exhibit B: shopping)
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)
(Exhibit D: "Renaissance man" activities like creating artwork, sculpting statues, or writing literature)

Or you can realize that being sexual is a normal part of human behavior and you should try out all you can to figure out what you like and what you don't. I did all that stuff in high school, and got some too. If you're only consumed with sex, sure, that's not ideal. But you can easily mix it in to your myriad interests.

I know, right. I have to admit that I'm surprised to see like three different repressive views on human sexuality all arguing with one another in this thread.

I'm an atheist, so while I don't personally believe that there's a higher power telling me not to have sex, at least I can understand why someone who is religious would follow the doctrine or whatever. But anyone else who thinks sex (or even "lesser sexual activity") between consenting peers is bad? No comprendo.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 02:11:24 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:01:31 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 01:03:09 PM
:bigass:

In all seriousness, though, there are lots of ways to have fun as a young adult, and even date when you're mature enough, without sexual activity.

(Exhibit A: outdoor activities like hiking, kayaking, camping, fishing, mountain biking)
(Exhibit B: shopping)
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)
(Exhibit D: "Renaissance man" activities like creating artwork, sculpting statues, or writing literature)

Or you can realize that being sexual is a normal part of human behavior and you should try out all you can to figure out what you like and what you don't. I did all that stuff in high school, and got some too. If you're only consumed with sex, sure, that's not ideal. But you can easily mix it in to your myriad interests.

Again, better safe than sorry. It's natural, yes, but it's not something appropriate for young people to do, and it should be the last on young people's lists of priorities. My parents would've given me unthinkable punishments if they'd discovered that I was making out even once. YMMV of course, but it's definitely something to teach the next generation.

Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:11:04 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 02:07:57 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:01:31 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 01:03:09 PM
:bigass:

In all seriousness, though, there are lots of ways to have fun as a young adult, and even date when you're mature enough, without sexual activity.

(Exhibit A: outdoor activities like hiking, kayaking, camping, fishing, mountain biking)
(Exhibit B: shopping)
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)
(Exhibit D: "Renaissance man" activities like creating artwork, sculpting statues, or writing literature)

Or you can realize that being sexual is a normal part of human behavior and you should try out all you can to figure out what you like and what you don't. I did all that stuff in high school, and got some too. If you're only consumed with sex, sure, that's not ideal. But you can easily mix it in to your myriad interests.

I know, right. I have to admit that I'm surprised to see like three different repressive views on human sexuality all arguing with one another in this thread.

I'm an atheist, so while I don't personally believe that there's a higher power telling me not to have sex, at least I can understand why someone who is religious would follow the doctrine or whatever. But anyone else who thinks sex (or even "lesser sexual activity") between consenting peers is bad? No comprendo.

While I did grow up in a religious family, and Christian scriptures do condemn sex before marriage while treating it as a divine gift for solely the appropriate contexts, there are many reasons against premarital sex that I listed which have nothing to do with religion.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 26, 2022, 02:13:18 PM


Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:11:04 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 02:07:57 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:01:31 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 01:03:09 PM
:bigass:

In all seriousness, though, there are lots of ways to have fun as a young adult, and even date when you're mature enough, without sexual activity.

(Exhibit A: outdoor activities like hiking, kayaking, camping, fishing, mountain biking)
(Exhibit B: shopping)
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)
(Exhibit D: "Renaissance man" activities like creating artwork, sculpting statues, or writing literature)

Or you can realize that being sexual is a normal part of human behavior and you should try out all you can to figure out what you like and what you don't. I did all that stuff in high school, and got some too. If you're only consumed with sex, sure, that's not ideal. But you can easily mix it in to your myriad interests.

I know, right. I have to admit that I'm surprised to see like three different repressive views on human sexuality all arguing with one another in this thread.

I'm an atheist, so while I don't personally believe that there's a higher power telling me not to have sex, at least I can understand why someone who is religious would follow the doctrine or whatever. But anyone else who thinks sex (or even "lesser sexual activity") is bad? No comprendo.

Back in the day, I do think it was a matter of simple economics to wait given the available birth control methods, maternal mortality rate and the division of male/female household duties that were more about survival than oppression...until civilization improved.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:14:05 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 02:11:24 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:01:31 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 01:03:09 PM
:bigass:

In all seriousness, though, there are lots of ways to have fun as a young adult, and even date when you're mature enough, without sexual activity.

(Exhibit A: outdoor activities like hiking, kayaking, camping, fishing, mountain biking)
(Exhibit B: shopping)
(Exhibit C: going on a vacation to somewhere that's not one of those steamy "adults only" destinations like Las Vegas)
(Exhibit D: "Renaissance man" activities like creating artwork, sculpting statues, or writing literature)

Or you can realize that being sexual is a normal part of human behavior and you should try out all you can to figure out what you like and what you don't. I did all that stuff in high school, and got some too. If you're only consumed with sex, sure, that's not ideal. But you can easily mix it in to your myriad interests.

Again, better safe than sorry. It's natural, yes, but it's not something appropriate for young people to do, and it should be the last on young people's lists of priorities. My parents would've given me unthinkable punishments if they'd discovered that I was making out even once. YMMV of course, but it's definitely something to teach the next generation.

Well, I'll 100% disagree. I don't agree that it's inappropriate. Yeah, if you're masturbating in front of a crowd, I get it. But if your parents would actually punish you for following human instinct, in my opinion (and I'm trying not to be insulting or too judgey), that's bad parenting. I have a 5-month-old and when it's time to talk to him about sex, the conversation will be "do what makes you feel good" provided a) you're very aware of consent and what the other person wants and b) you use protection.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:14:49 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 02:11:24 PM
While I did grow up in a religious family, and Christian scriptures do condemn sex before marriage while treating it as a divine gift for solely the appropriate contexts, there are many reasons against premarital sex that I listed which have nothing to do with religion.

I know you listed them. I just disagree with all of them.  :)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:15:44 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 26, 2022, 02:13:18 PM
Back in the day, I do think it was a matter of simple economics to wait given the available birth control methods, maternal mortality rate and the division of male/female household duties that were more about survival than oppression...until civilization improved.

Not even back in the day. I just turned 40 and I had my first kid five months ago. I was finally in a financial situation where I felt comfortable having one (not to mention being in a better mental state to do so a.k.a. not being a numbskull in my 20's).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 02:18:10 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:53:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 12:49:43 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 12:24:48 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 08:47:14 AM
1. Dating, especially before college.

High school dating is a complete waste of time, money, and effort that could be better directed towards academics, extracurriculars, or community service.

I mean, I feel like dating in high school is specifically for some of those extracurriculars...

Are we on the same page here? By "extracurriculars," I'm referring to stuff like sports and clubs in school.

He's talking about fucking.

9. Premarital sex.

Or, at least, pre-engagement sex. Again, sorry if I'm sounding like your parents, but... fuck fucking. :biggrin: Hard to pass the opportunity to say that. I'd rather sit out on a fleeting sense of temporary superficial primordial pleasure than to risk exposure to STDs like syphilis and AIDS, causing unplanned pregnancies, and ruining other people's lives. It's so upsetting how the age at which people have been getting into intimate relationships has been getting lower and lower over the years.

10. The 1980s.

80's culture isn't as "groovy" as a lot of people make it out to be, especially people who were born after the 80's.

11. The Liberty Bell, Times Square, the White House and the Capitol Building (as a tourist), Navy Pier, Fisherman's Wharf, the Space Needle, the Gastown clock, the Christ the Redeemer statue, the Little Mermaid statue, the Mannekin Pis statue, the Eiffel Tower, and the Leaning Tower of Pisa.

I'm pretty sure nobody's complained about overrated and underwhelming tourist attractions here yet.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 26, 2022, 02:58:53 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 02:18:10 PM
11. The Liberty Bell, Times Square, the White House and the Capitol Building (as a tourist), Navy Pier, Fisherman's Wharf, the Space Needle, the Gastown clock, the Christ the Redeemer statue, the Little Mermaid statue, the Mannekin Pis statue, the Eiffel Tower, and the Leaning Tower of Pisa.

I'm pretty sure nobody's complained about overrated and underwhelming tourist attractions here yet.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25764.0

(Large quote blocks are overrated.)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 03:03:02 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:14:05 PM
I have a 5-month-old and when it's time to talk to him about sex, the conversation will be "do what makes you feel good" provided a) you're very aware of consent and what the other person wants and b) you use protection.

Forgive me, but "what makes you feel good" is not how I teach my children to navigate life.

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 03:07:49 PM
Quote from: kkt on May 26, 2022, 12:52:27 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 10:06:13 AM

Quote from: webny99 on May 25, 2022, 08:02:17 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 03:53:42 PM
Clothes are overrated.

Well at the very least, spending a ton of money on "name brand" clothes that are the same or only marginally better quality is overrated.

Sorry, I should clarify.  Wearing clothes is overrated.

Honestly, we'd be fine half the year without them.

No, not for me anyway.  Need clothes in winter because it's cold.  Need clothes in summer for protection against skin cancer.  Not that fond of sunscreen and I'd rather only have to wear it on my head and maybe arms.

Curiosity got the better of me, so I decided to see how many days in Wichita get up to at least 70°F.  Turns out it's more than 50%.  So I figure the "because it's cold" part would not apply to at least part of the day for at least half the year.

(https://i.imgur.com/OTN63IZ.jpg)

But as for skin cancer:  yes, I'm sure I underrate the risk of skin cancer.  My wife always gripes at me for not wearing sunscreen in the summer.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 03:14:08 PM
Sex is no different than taking a roadtrip with someone else:
- can fuck up your life really badly if you don't take basic safety precautions
- can result in misery if you do it with the wrong person
- the vast majority of the time, neither of those things happen, and you just have fun
- is really about the same whether you're married or not

There's no sense in being weird about it any more than any other leisure activity.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 03:26:49 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 03:14:08 PM
Sex is no different than taking a roadtrip with someone else:
- can fuck up your life really badly if you don't take basic safety precautions
- can result in misery if you do it with the wrong person
- the vast majority of the time, neither of those things happen, and you just have fun
- is really about the same whether you're married or not

There's no sense in being weird about it any more than any other leisure activity.

Disagree.

And I'm someone who has had both pre-marital sex and marital sex, and I'm also someone who has had a child out of wedlock.  Two points I'll touch on below.

A sexual relationship creates a bond between the people involved that is (unlike) (deeper than) (more spiritual than) (stronger than) the bond that might otherwise exist without it.  Leaving "the wrong person" is a more difficult process if you're sexually involved than if you aren't, because your sexual passion can cloud your judgment and cause you to go against your better senses.

Defining the process that makes babies as merely a "leisure activity" works to erode the connection between bearing children and having a committed long-term relationship.  The entirety of that erosion isn't mitigated by using protection, because it's a cognitive shift that happens in the mind and in the heart.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 03:30:48 PM
QuoteA sexual relationship creates a bond between the people involved that is (unlike) (deeper than) (more spiritual than) (stronger than) the bond that might otherwise exist without it.

This hasn't been my experience at all, so that probably explains the difference in our opinion on this.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on May 26, 2022, 03:34:27 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 02:18:10 PMThe Liberty Bell, Times Square, the White House and the Capitol Building (as a tourist), Navy Pier, Fisherman's Wharf, the Space Needle, the Gastown clock, the Christ the Redeemer statue, the Little Mermaid statue, the Mannekin Pis statue, the Eiffel Tower, and the Leaning Tower of Pisa.

How many people visit the cities in which these are situated just to see those specific things?  I've been to Paris multiple times and not once visited the Eiffel Tower, though I do try to make it to the Louvre.

Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 02:18:10 PMI'm pretty sure nobody's complained about overrated and underwhelming tourist attractions here yet.

There was earlier conversation in this thread about Florida and tourist attractions situated within it, such as Disney World.  (I've actually been and liked Epcot, but the other part--Magic Kingdom?--was a bit of a disappointment.  They had people dressed in plush suits as various Disney animated characters and it made me sad to see a three-year-old chasing "Mickey" as he retreated to an off-limits area.)

Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 03:07:49 PMCuriosity got the better of me, so I decided to see how many days in Wichita get up to at least 70°F.  Turns out it's more than 50%.  So I figure the "because it's cold" part would not apply to at least part of the day for at least half the year.

(https://i.imgur.com/OTN63IZ.jpg)

But as for skin cancer:  yes, I'm sure I underrate the risk of skin cancer.  My wife always gripes at me for not wearing sunscreen in the summer.

Wearing clothes in the summer is also about leaving less surface exposed to biting insects, including ones that can cause difficult-to-treat diseases like Rocky Mountain spotted fever.  Clothes also protect the skin from vinyl and leather seating surfaces that have gotten hot in the sun and help keep sweat and anal secretions off furniture.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 03:37:51 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 26, 2022, 03:34:27 PM
anal secretions

/me checks, just to be sure...

Yep, that's the first time the phrase has been used on this forum![/me]
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 03:58:34 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 03:30:48 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 03:26:49 PM
A sexual relationship creates a bond between the people involved that is (unlike) (deeper than) (more spiritual than) (stronger than) the bond that might otherwise exist without it.

This hasn't been my experience at all, so that probably explains the difference in our opinion on this.

Actually, I've long thought that such a deep-seated bond is likely the reason sacred prostitution has been a feature of so many ancient religions:  because sexual intercourse, by its profundity of experience, has been believed by multiple cultures to be a gateway to or touchpoint with the supernatural.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on May 26, 2022, 04:52:57 PM
The amount of posting in this thread is making me realize: reading every post in a thread is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 04:57:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 03:03:02 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:14:05 PM
I have a 5-month-old and when it's time to talk to him about sex, the conversation will be "do what makes you feel good" provided a) you're very aware of consent and what the other person wants and b) you use protection.

Forgive me, but "what makes you feel good" is not how I teach my children to navigate life.

Obviously we're all welcome to raise our kids differently, but I will raise my child to do what interests them and what gives them a feeling of contentment. Whether that's dancing, studying dinosaurs, being interested in the opposite/same sex, etc. I think as long as you have honest conversations with children (and eventually teenagers) about the things that are in the world and how to enjoy them while still being safe and respectful to other people, it's a better style of parenting than complete prohibition on anything "fun" and then when the kid goes to college, they go crazy because there's so much they haven't been exposed to. Think of it like rumspringa without the religion beforehand. Again, your thoughts may differ.

Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 03:58:34 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 03:30:48 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 03:26:49 PM
A sexual relationship creates a bond between the people involved that is (unlike) (deeper than) (more spiritual than) (stronger than) the bond that might otherwise exist without it.

This hasn't been my experience at all, so that probably explains the difference in our opinion on this.

Actually, I've long thought that such a deep-seated bond is likely the reason sacred prostitution has been a feature of so many ancient religions:  because sexual intercourse, by its profundity of experience, has been believed by multiple cultures to be a gateway to or touchpoint with the supernatural.

There were several studies done about why suicide bombers in the 2000's were almost all Muslim, and the general consensus was that the drive to get to heaven to get the 99 virgins was a good enough reason for these poor virgins from the rural Middle East to kill themselves; the rich men in their villages were the ones with all of the women, and in turn, all of the sex. I'll try to track down the study.

I think there's a corollary to the modern "basement dwelling white guys in America" committing mass shootings. For whatever reason, their social circles don't include a lot of women, and so they're also not having sex. I would be very surprised if any of these mass shooters, especially the ones under the age of 25, had ever had consensual sex that they didn't pay for, and likely not that either.

Sacred prostitution, if it existed in modern times, at least would mitigate some of these types of issues. In reality, I think sacred prostitution, at the time, was just a way for rich dudes to get around what the mullah was advising against.

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 05:14:08 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 04:57:00 PM
... it's a better style of parenting than complete prohibition on anything "fun" and then when the kid goes to college, they go crazy because there's so much they haven't been exposed to. Think of it like rumspringa without the religion beforehand. Again, your thoughts may differ.

You're equating "wait until marriage to have sex" with "anything fun is prohibited"?  Really?

Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 04:57:00 PM
In reality, I think sacred prostitution, at the time, was just a way for rich dudes to get around what the mullah was advising against.

Huh?  No, I'm talking about ancient Greek, Babylonian, and Hittite cultures–where sacred prostitution was an explicit part of the religion practice, not a means around that religion's tenets.  In fact, personal moral conduct as a feature of religious dogma is a rather modern Western thing, whereas ancient Near Eastern religions tended to be more concerned with the act of cultic worship itself.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 05:34:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 05:14:08 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 04:57:00 PM
... it's a better style of parenting than complete prohibition on anything "fun" and then when the kid goes to college, they go crazy because there's so much they haven't been exposed to. Think of it like rumspringa without the religion beforehand. Again, your thoughts may differ.

You're equating "wait until marriage to have sex" with "anything fun is prohibited"?  Really?

I put fun in quotes for a reason. Sex, drugs, and rock and roll are "fun".

Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 05:14:08 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 04:57:00 PM
In reality, I think sacred prostitution, at the time, was just a way for rich dudes to get around what the mullah was advising against.

Huh?  No, I'm talking about ancient Greek, Babylonian, and Hittite cultures–where sacred prostitution was an explicit part of the religion practice, not a means around that religion's tenets.  In fact, personal moral conduct as a feature of religious dogma is a rather modern Western thing, whereas ancient Near Eastern religions tended to be more concerned with the act of cultic worship itself.

I thought you were talking about nikah mut'ah, or Muslim temporary marriages where basically you're paying a woman (or her family a dowry) to get temporarily married in order to have sex. Either way, more often than not, from glancing quickly at a Wikipedia article about sacred prostitution to get me up to speed (so I'm admitting I might be missing something), it looks like mostly the holy or rich men were the ones allowed to partake in the "ritual", so it's not a ton different.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 05:49:58 PM
Heh, since we're on the subject, sort of, I'll go ahead and say marriage is overrated. Or at least the legal concept of it. I'm content enough with my marriage that I'm not interested in ending it, but sometimes I miss not having our property and financial interests so intertwined. I was a lot happier when I could distance myself from my wife's financial affairs; getting to see all of the gory details has added a lot of stress to the relationship we didn't have when we were just living together. I sometimes wonder if it would have been better to remain in a state of having a committed, long-term, live-in relationship, or in other words, a marriage in all but name.

"You can only have sex if you're willing to assume the other person's credit card debt" would be a really weird take it if it weren't rooted in religious tradition.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 06:00:37 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 05:49:58 PM
Heh, since we're on the subject, sort of, I'll go ahead and say marriage is overrated. Or at least the legal concept of it. I'm content enough with my marriage that I'm not interested in ending it, but sometimes I miss not having our property and financial interests so intertwined. I was a lot happier when I could distance myself from my wife's financial affairs; getting to see all of the gory details has added a lot of stress to the relationship we didn't have when we were just living together. I sometimes wonder if it would have been better to remain in a state of having a committed, long-term, live-in relationship, or in other words, a marriage in all but name.

I'm not sure I'm with you about marriage itself, but I can see some logic in deeming weddings to be overrated. I agree with one of the up-thread posters that it's much quicker and simple to just sign papers in some government office with your spouse, rather than plan a huge and financially taxing ceremony. It's not like we, as 21st-century human beings, are obliged to bind to tradition to the maximum extent possible at all times.

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 05:49:58 PM
"You can only have sex if you're willing to assume the other person's credit card debt" would be a really weird take it if it weren't rooted in religious tradition.

Honestly, it's not so much the precise formalities and legal fine print surrounding marriage as it is the commitment you and your partner have for each other. I (and my family members) actually used to believe that sexual intercourse must be preceded by formal marriage, however our views have since widened to include engagement.

Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 04:57:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 03:03:02 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:14:05 PM
I have a 5-month-old and when it's time to talk to him about sex, the conversation will be "do what makes you feel good" provided a) you're very aware of consent and what the other person wants and b) you use protection.

Forgive me, but "what makes you feel good" is not how I teach my children to navigate life.

Obviously we're all welcome to raise our kids differently, but I will raise my child to do what interests them and what gives them a feeling of contentment. Whether that's dancing, studying dinosaurs, being interested in the opposite/same sex, etc. I think as long as you have honest conversations with children (and eventually teenagers) about the things that are in the world and how to enjoy them while still being safe and respectful to other people, it's a better style of parenting than complete prohibition on anything "fun" and then when the kid goes to college, they go crazy because there's so much they haven't been exposed to. Think of it like rumspringa without the religion beforehand. Again, your thoughts may differ.

Don't worry guys, I'm not that religious. If you're implying that I'm creationist or homophobic you're getting the idea completely wrong. I just grew up in a religious family, that's all. Anyways, can we all agree about some basic standards or "house rules" about the right way for raising children in a family? A lot of these are essentially common sense, such as prohibitions against drug, alcohol, nicotine/tobacco/vape use. Not talking to strangers. Reading the ratings for movies and video games until your children demonstrate adequate maturity. Restricting internet usage to make sure your kids get enough outdoor and face-to-face time. Feeding your children a healthy, nutritious, and balanced diet. Taking away their privileges whenever they get bad grades, steal, tell lies, cheat, or use inappropriate language. Signing them up for extracurricular activities (while maintaining a balance between "forcing them against their will" and "letting them be quitters"). Being "assertive" parents rather than "autocratic" or "permissive" parents. And last but not least, teaching them about the wide range of dangers of abusing the gift of procreation before lifelong commitment to one partner (who may or may not be of the opposite sex).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on May 26, 2022, 06:18:37 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on May 25, 2022, 08:10:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 25, 2022, 06:24:24 PM
Beaches are overrated.

Since I moved to a snowy-winter environment I have been doing about three week-long beach vacations per year and have loved them all, errrrr well most of them anyway.  A good book and a cooler full of soda and beer whisk so many cares away.

Edit to add:  I guess the one I wasn't that impressed with in the last few years was Honolulu/Waikiki.  And that was at the depths of the Covid-19 issues when it was probably as empty as it would ever be.  Hawaii has so many beautiful beaches on Maui and the Big Island, but I just didn't care much for Waikiki's urban environment.

Beaches in general aren't overrated, but Waikiki may be the most overrated beach on the planet. It's been 40 years but I can't imagine it being any less unimpressive than when I saw it then. There are a lot of great beaches in Hawaii; Waikiki isn't one of them. We had three beaches when I was stationed on Midway Island which were better and I saw several better beaches on Oahu.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 06:21:07 PM
Quote from: skluth on May 26, 2022, 06:18:37 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on May 25, 2022, 08:10:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 25, 2022, 06:24:24 PM
Beaches are overrated.

Since I moved to a snowy-winter environment I have been doing about three week-long beach vacations per year and have loved them all, errrrr well most of them anyway.  A good book and a cooler full of soda and beer whisk so many cares away.

Edit to add:  I guess the one I wasn't that impressed with in the last few years was Honolulu/Waikiki.  And that was at the depths of the Covid-19 issues when it was probably as empty as it would ever be.  Hawaii has so many beautiful beaches on Maui and the Big Island, but I just didn't care much for Waikiki's urban environment.

Beaches in general aren't overrated, but Waikiki may be the most overrated beach on the planet. It's been 40 years but I can't imagine it being any less unimpressive than when I saw it then. There are a lot of great beaches in Hawaii; Waikiki isn't one of them. We had three beaches when I was stationed on Midway Island which were better and I saw several better beaches on Oahu.

I've even heard reports that the beach isn't natural, due to the presence of a layer of concrete below the sand.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 26, 2022, 06:21:53 PM
Quote from: skluth on May 26, 2022, 06:18:37 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on May 25, 2022, 08:10:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 25, 2022, 06:24:24 PM
Beaches are overrated.

Since I moved to a snowy-winter environment I have been doing about three week-long beach vacations per year and have loved them all, errrrr well most of them anyway.  A good book and a cooler full of soda and beer whisk so many cares away.

Edit to add:  I guess the one I wasn't that impressed with in the last few years was Honolulu/Waikiki.  And that was at the depths of the Covid-19 issues when it was probably as empty as it would ever be.  Hawaii has so many beautiful beaches on Maui and the Big Island, but I just didn't care much for Waikiki's urban environment.

Beaches in general aren't overrated, but Waikiki may be the most overrated beach on the planet. It's been 40 years but I can't imagine it being any less unimpressive than when I saw it then. There are a lot of great beaches in Hawaii; Waikiki isn't one of them. We had three beaches when I was stationed on Midway Island which were better and I saw several better beaches on Oahu.

Waikiki was more interesting to walk around in than trying to spend time on it's fake beach.  All the better beaches on the Windward Side of Oahu.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 06:23:25 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 06:00:37 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 05:49:58 PM
Heh, since we're on the subject, sort of, I'll go ahead and say marriage is overrated. Or at least the legal concept of it. I'm content enough with my marriage that I'm not interested in ending it, but sometimes I miss not having our property and financial interests so intertwined. I was a lot happier when I could distance myself from my wife's financial affairs; getting to see all of the gory details has added a lot of stress to the relationship we didn't have when we were just living together. I sometimes wonder if it would have been better to remain in a state of having a committed, long-term, live-in relationship, or in other words, a marriage in all but name.

I'm not sure I'm with you about marriage itself, but I can see some logic in deeming weddings to be overrated. I agree with one of the up-thread posters that it's much quicker and simple to just sign papers in some government office with your spouse, rather than plan a huge and financially taxing ceremony. It's not like we, as 21st-century human beings, are obliged to bind to tradition to the maximum extent possible at all times.

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 05:49:58 PM
"You can only have sex if you're willing to assume the other person's credit card debt" would be a really weird take it if it weren't rooted in religious tradition.

Honestly, it's not so much the precise formalities and legal fine print surrounding marriage as it is the commitment you and your partner have for each other. I (and my family members) actually used to believe that sexual intercourse must be preceded by formal marriage, however our views have since widened to include engagement.

I think this is one of those things where it's hard to understand the nuances between "committed long-term relationship" and "marriage" until you've experienced both firsthand for a while. Getting married certainly didn't change how much my wife and I care about each other, and it didn't make our relationship any more stable than it already was. But it did introduce more stress points into the relationship that, frankly, we could do without.

Yet there are a good number of benefits afforded by the legal system to married couples that aren't afforded to committed long-term partners of other types. If we weren't married, I couldn't be on her health insurance, for example, and we couldn't file our taxes jointly (which results in better tax rates).

As for the wedding itself, we weren't interested in having a big ceremony. In Oklahoma, we found out, you actually can't just go down to the county courthouse and sign papers. You must have the signature of a minister, duly registered in the county, for the marriage to be valid. As an end-run around this, we had a friend find some online ministry that would issue her a certificate that she then registered with the county courthouse.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on May 26, 2022, 06:42:42 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 05:49:58 PMHeh, since we're on the subject, sort of, I'll go ahead and say marriage is overrated. Or at least the legal concept of it. I'm content enough with my marriage that I'm not interested in ending it, but sometimes I miss not having our property and financial interests so intertwined. I was a lot happier when I could distance myself from my wife's financial affairs; getting to see all of the gory details has added a lot of stress to the relationship we didn't have when we were just living together. I sometimes wonder if it would have been better to remain in a state of having a committed, long-term, live-in relationship, or in other words, a marriage in all but name.

I think there is a generational dimension to this--it is a lot rarer now for people to reach age 30 without significant non-mortgage debt than it was 30 or even 20 years ago.  Student loans and household debt (especially credit cards) have both exploded.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 26, 2022, 06:55:05 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 26, 2022, 06:42:42 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 05:49:58 PMHeh, since we're on the subject, sort of, I'll go ahead and say marriage is overrated. Or at least the legal concept of it. I'm content enough with my marriage that I'm not interested in ending it, but sometimes I miss not having our property and financial interests so intertwined. I was a lot happier when I could distance myself from my wife's financial affairs; getting to see all of the gory details has added a lot of stress to the relationship we didn't have when we were just living together. I sometimes wonder if it would have been better to remain in a state of having a committed, long-term, live-in relationship, or in other words, a marriage in all but name.

I think there is a generational dimension to this--it is a lot rarer now for people to reach age 30 without significant non-mortgage debt than it was 30 or even 20 years ago.  Student loans and household debt (especially credit cards) have both exploded.

My wife and I had an entire adult life of financial independence before we married.  We still don't share any financial accounts and file taxes separately. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on May 26, 2022, 07:02:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 05:49:58 PM
Heh, since we're on the subject, sort of, I'll go ahead and say marriage is overrated. Or at least the legal concept of it. I'm content enough with my marriage that I'm not interested in ending it, but sometimes I miss not having our property and financial interests so intertwined. I was a lot happier when I could distance myself from my wife's financial affairs; getting to see all of the gory details has added a lot of stress to the relationship we didn't have when we were just living together. I sometimes wonder if it would have been better to remain in a state of having a committed, long-term, live-in relationship, or in other words, a marriage in all but name.

"You can only have sex if you're willing to assume the other person's credit card debt" would be a really weird take it if it weren't rooted in religious tradition.

I think the idea is that when you enter into a marriage, you and your spouse are becoming one entity until death. I know this gets into biblical tradition with the whole "two become one flesh" type of stuff, but it's the idea that your lives, families, interests, hopes, etc. come together. And yes, that unfortunately includes financial debts as well. But it also refers to the literal act of intercourse.

Financial debt is really its own can of worms. Universities shouldn't be so expensive where such a significant percentage of college graduates can't get out without incurring student loan debt. And no, the answer isn't 100% free tuition.



P.S., I'm shocked this thread hasn't been locked yet. This discussion has been quite civil.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on May 26, 2022, 07:08:22 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 26, 2022, 07:02:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 05:49:58 PM
Heh, since we're on the subject, sort of, I'll go ahead and say marriage is overrated. Or at least the legal concept of it. I'm content enough with my marriage that I'm not interested in ending it, but sometimes I miss not having our property and financial interests so intertwined. I was a lot happier when I could distance myself from my wife's financial affairs; getting to see all of the gory details has added a lot of stress to the relationship we didn't have when we were just living together. I sometimes wonder if it would have been better to remain in a state of having a committed, long-term, live-in relationship, or in other words, a marriage in all but name.

"You can only have sex if you're willing to assume the other person's credit card debt" would be a really weird take it if it weren't rooted in religious tradition.

I think the idea is that when you enter into a marriage, you and your spouse are becoming one entity until death. I know this gets into biblical tradition with the whole "two become one flesh" type of stuff, but it's the idea that your lives, families, interests, hopes, etc. come together. And yes, that unfortunately includes financial debts as well. But it also refers to the literal act of intercourse.

Financial debt is really its own can of worms. Universities shouldn't be so expensive where such a significant percentage of college graduates can't get out without incurring student loan debt. And no, the answer isn't 100% free tuition.



P.S., I'm shocked this thread hasn't been locked yet. This discussion has been quite civil.

For all its romanticism and religious background, marriage is mostly a legally binding contract between two people.

I agree the answer isn't 100% free tuition, but public college education should be affordable for the lower middle class. I'm also against the blanket forgiveness of student debt, especially when accumulated at a private or out-of-state public institution.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 07:21:47 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 06:00:37 PM
Anyways, can we all agree about some basic standards or "house rules" about the right way for raising children in a family? A lot of these are essentially common sense, such as prohibitions against drug, alcohol, nicotine/tobacco/vape use. Not talking to strangers. Reading the ratings for movies and video games until your children demonstrate adequate maturity. Restricting internet usage to make sure your kids get enough outdoor and face-to-face time. Feeding your children a healthy, nutritious, and balanced diet. Taking away their privileges whenever they get bad grades, steal, tell lies, cheat, or use inappropriate language. Signing them up for extracurricular activities (while maintaining a balance between "forcing them against their will" and "letting them be quitters"). Being "assertive" parents rather than "autocratic" or "permissive" parents. And last but not least, teaching them about the wide range of dangers of abusing the gift of procreation before lifelong commitment to one partner (who may or may not be of the opposite sex).

I don't agree with all those, no.

– I encourage my children to talk with strangers.  I want them to be sociable, make friends, and be outgoing.  I don't want them to distrust everybody they run across.

– I don't prohibit alcohol.  I want them to have a level-headed view of it before they go off on their own (cf JayhawkCO's rumspringa comparison).  Our eldest son has zero interest in even tasting anything alcoholic.  Our youngest is too young still.  But our middle son, who is currently eleven years old, has tried wine at the dinner table a few times.  I give him a wine glass with a few sips' worth in it, and he usually doesn't even take more than one sip, but I consider that part of responsible parenting.

– My wife and I have changed tack when it comes to internet usage.  Almost all of our eldest son's friends live on the other side of the city or in a neighboring suburb.  We send them off to the neighborhood playground every so often, but they don't have friends in the neighborhood the way I did when I was their age.  So we realize that the internet is actually the best way, in our situation at least, for our son to foster his relationships with his friends.  They chat about Minecraft servers and stuff–things my wife and I don't get–and we're happy with that.

– We've never taken away privileges for bad grades.  My wife home-schools them, so they do have the freedom and opportunity to go back over material they didn't learn very well, until it sinks in better.  But we understand that, frankly, not everyone is equally bright, and also that some people just don't do as well at certain subjects.    We're more willing to accept poor grades in a subject that's a real struggle than in a subject that's right up their alley.  As long as they're getting their work done on time, applying themselves to the tasks, and–heck, trying–then we're happy.  However, when our eldest son was spending 80% of his computer work time chatting online instead of doing schoolwork, we brought the privilege hammer down a couple of times.  And even then, the temptation was too much, and he knew it, and he couldn't seem to overcome it, and so eventually he asked us to block the internet on the computer until school hours were over.  Now that the school year is out, he's back online in the afternoons, interacting with his friends.

Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 04:57:00 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 03:03:02 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:14:05 PM
I have a 5-month-old and when it's time to talk to him about sex, the conversation will be "do what makes you feel good" provided a) you're very aware of consent and what the other person wants and b) you use protection.

Forgive me, but "what makes you feel good" is not how I teach my children to navigate life.

Obviously we're all welcome to raise our kids differently, but I will raise my child to do what interests them and what gives them a feeling of contentment. Whether that's dancing, studying dinosaurs, being interested in the opposite/same sex, etc. I think as long as you have honest conversations with children (and eventually teenagers) about the things that are in the world and how to enjoy them while still being safe and respectful to other people, it's a better style of parenting than complete prohibition on anything "fun" and then when the kid goes to college, they go crazy because there's so much they haven't been exposed to. Think of it like rumspringa without the religion beforehand. Again, your thoughts may differ.

I may have read too much into your comments.  Or I may not have.  But, at any rate:

It's my belief that a sizeable part of maturity and leading a good life is (a) not doing things you want to and (b) doing things you don't want to.  I certainly believe that pleasure is a gift from heaven and that feeling guilty about pleasure betrays a misguided view of life.  I also believe that a miserable life is not synonymous with a virtuous life.  But far be it from me! to tell my children to do whatever makes them happy, or whatever feels good, or whatever they want to.  I believe that, as humans, our desires and wishes are flawed and skewed and not the best guide to living a good life.  And I also believe that fleeting pleasure and happiness can often lead to longer-lasting pain and regret.

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 06:23:25 PM
I think this is one of those things where it's hard to understand the nuances between "committed long-term relationship" and "marriage" until you've experienced both firsthand for a while. Getting married certainly didn't change how much my wife and I care about each other, and it didn't make our relationship any more stable than it already was. But it did introduce more stress points into the relationship that, frankly, we could do without.

Yet there are a good number of benefits afforded by the legal system to married couples that aren't afforded to committed long-term partners of other types. If we weren't married, I couldn't be on her health insurance, for example, and we couldn't file our taxes jointly (which results in better tax rates).

I've spent a lot of time wondering to myself what the purpose of civil marriage even is anymore.  Historically, I suppose, it was an institution whose purpose was to maintain the social structure by means of maintaining family structure.  Its purpose was to ensure that children had two parents, that one spouse wouldn't be abandoned by the other, that children and widows wouldn't be left destitute, etc, etc.  But, in our modern society, a lot of those goals have been undercut from several different directions–by which I mean to say that our society is no longer committed to maintaining those social structures, at least in the same way or to the same extent as in the past.  From the American government's perspective, what is the real difference between a married couple, a civil union, or a cohabiting couple?  Honestly, I have a hard time providing a satisfactory answer to that question.  It's almost as if, once you've jettisoned certain fundamental assumptions about marriage, there's little reason to keep marriage around as a civil institution at all.

Of course, as a religious person, there's a whole dimension to marriage that I haven't spoken of in the above paragraph.  I was speaking merely in terms of civil society.

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 06:23:25 PM
You must have the signature of a minister, duly registered in the county, for the marriage to be valid. As an end-run around this, we had a friend find some online ministry that would issue her a certificate that she then registered with the county courthouse.

Seriously?  How is that a thing?  That's nutso.  I have a strong distaste in my mouth for religious ministers signing off on strangers' marriages. 

Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 26, 2022, 07:02:20 PM
P.S., I'm shocked this thread hasn't been locked yet. This discussion has been quite civil.

We've come a long way in civility (myself included) on this form, just in the last two years.  It's a good thing.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 26, 2022, 07:26:57 PM
I don't think anything in this thread has even broached the level of where it would even be considered for locking?  This pretty tame general conversation regarding things we all subjectively find overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 07:29:38 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 26, 2022, 07:02:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 05:49:58 PM
Heh, since we're on the subject, sort of, I'll go ahead and say marriage is overrated. Or at least the legal concept of it. I'm content enough with my marriage that I'm not interested in ending it, but sometimes I miss not having our property and financial interests so intertwined. I was a lot happier when I could distance myself from my wife's financial affairs; getting to see all of the gory details has added a lot of stress to the relationship we didn't have when we were just living together. I sometimes wonder if it would have been better to remain in a state of having a committed, long-term, live-in relationship, or in other words, a marriage in all but name.

"You can only have sex if you're willing to assume the other person's credit card debt" would be a really weird take it if it weren't rooted in religious tradition.

I think the idea is that when you enter into a marriage, you and your spouse are becoming one entity until death. I know this gets into biblical tradition with the whole "two become one flesh" type of stuff, but it's the idea that your lives, families, interests, hopes, etc. come together. And yes, that unfortunately includes financial debts as well. But it also refers to the literal act of intercourse.

Financial debt is really its own can of worms. Universities shouldn't be so expensive where such a significant percentage of college graduates can't get out without incurring student loan debt. And no, the answer isn't 100% free tuition.

Right. I'm not entirely sure that the concept of a marriage merging two people's lives that deeply is necessarily relevant or even desirable in modern society. Taking my own marriage as an example, I love traveling but it stresses my wife out, and she loves concerts and I despise them, so we are always going to have certain activities we undertake without the other (solution: bring a friend that likes that instead). We've kept our families mostly cordoned off from each other, at first out of sheer practicality (most of my family lives in Kansas, and as mentioned, my wife hates traveling) but as time has gone on her family has gotten more and more intolerant to the point that she's mostly removed them from her life because she doesn't need or want to hear from them how much of a disappointment she is every time they talk.

And I'm certainly not the sort of person who dictates to my partner what they're supposed to do, who they're allowed to see, what life choices they must make, etc. I would hope that that sort of mindset is trending toward extinction in this country, but I'm sure it's more prevalent than I'd like. But it's really hard for me to reconcile the ideas of "two become one flesh" and "two equal partners maintaining their own free will and opinions".

Of course, the more that gets bound up together in the marriage, the harder it is to dissolve should the need arise. Obviously, some will see staying being easier than walking away as a feature, rather than a bug. But that barrier of having to go to court to end the relationship does make it far more difficult to terminate an abusive marriage, since the process of resolving the divorce will necessarily involve working with the other party, great financial expense, or both.

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 07:46:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 07:21:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 06:23:25 PM
I think this is one of those things where it's hard to understand the nuances between "committed long-term relationship" and "marriage" until you've experienced both firsthand for a while. Getting married certainly didn't change how much my wife and I care about each other, and it didn't make our relationship any more stable than it already was. But it did introduce more stress points into the relationship that, frankly, we could do without.

Yet there are a good number of benefits afforded by the legal system to married couples that aren't afforded to committed long-term partners of other types. If we weren't married, I couldn't be on her health insurance, for example, and we couldn't file our taxes jointly (which results in better tax rates).

I've spent a lot of time wondering to myself what the purpose of civil marriage even is anymore.  Historically, I suppose, it was an institution whose purpose was to maintain the social structure by means of maintaining family structure.  Its purpose was to ensure that children had two parents, that one spouse wouldn't be abandoned by the other, that children and widows wouldn't be left destitute, etc, etc.  But, in our modern society, a lot of those goals have been undercut from several different directions–by which I mean to say that our society is no longer committed to maintaining those social structures, at least in the same way or to the same extent as in the past.  From the American government's perspective, what is the real difference between a married couple, a civil union, or a cohabiting couple?  Honestly, I have a hard time providing a satisfactory answer to that question.  It's almost as if, once you've jettisoned certain fundamental assumptions about marriage, there's little reason to keep marriage around as a civil institution at all.

Of course, as a religious person, there's a whole dimension to marriage that I haven't spoken of in the above paragraph.  I was speaking merely in terms of civil society.

Yeah, you hit on a lot of the same points as me as I was typing up my post. And I understand that marriage may have some traditional and spiritual significance to members of certain religions that just aren't there in my non-religious household.

Back before Obergefell v. Hodges I used to wonder if the simplest solution to the controversy that existed at the time would be to simply call all legal marriages, regardless of the genders of those involved, "civil unions", and confine the term "marriage" to the corresponding religious traditions.

Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 07:21:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 06:23:25 PM
You must have the signature of a minister, duly registered in the county, for the marriage to be valid. As an end-run around this, we had a friend find some online ministry that would issue her a certificate that she then registered with the county courthouse.

Seriously?  How is that a thing?  That's nutso.  I have a strong distaste in my mouth for religious ministers signing off on strangers' marriages. 

Maybe Oklahoma should drop "Labor omnia vincit" as the state motto, in favor of "Seriously? How is that a thing?"

In our case, the friend that was the minister of record wasn't religious at all. The ministry she registered through was a simple web form she filled out, and I think she had to pay some nominal fee to the ministry.  They then listed her as a "minister" in their rolls. As I said, we did an end-run around it. The most difficult part of the process was Cleveland County deciding the day of the ceremony that her certificate wasn't printed on fancy enough paper (we had to rush to an office-supply store to get some suitable certificate paper, rush back home to re-print the certificate, then back to the courthouse to resubmit it).

But I imagine that practice made it a lot harder for non-religious folks to get married in Oklahoma before the Internet existed.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on May 26, 2022, 07:50:44 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 07:46:23 PM
Maybe Oklahoma should drop "Labor omnia vincit" as the state motto, in favor of "Seriously? How is that a thing?"

Oklahoma's motto should be: "Home of the Original, All-American CrAig CoUNtY™"
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 08:24:21 PM
Quote from: kphoger
Quote from: jayhawkco
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 07:21:47 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 02:14:05 PM
I have a 5-month-old and when it's time to talk to him about sex, the conversation will be "do what makes you feel good" provided a) you're very aware of consent and what the other person wants and b) you use protection.

Forgive me, but "what makes you feel good" is not how I teach my children to navigate life.

Obviously we're all welcome to raise our kids differently, but I will raise my child to do what interests them and what gives them a feeling of contentment. Whether that's dancing, studying dinosaurs, being interested in the opposite/same sex, etc. I think as long as you have honest conversations with children (and eventually teenagers) about the things that are in the world and how to enjoy them while still being safe and respectful to other people, it's a better style of parenting than complete prohibition on anything "fun" and then when the kid goes to college, they go crazy because there's so much they haven't been exposed to. Think of it like rumspringa without the religion beforehand. Again, your thoughts may differ.

I may have read too much into your comments.  Or I may not have.  But, at any rate:

It's my belief that a sizeable part of maturity and leading a good life is (a) not doing things you want to and (b) doing things you don't want to.  I certainly believe that pleasure is a gift from heaven and that feeling guilty about pleasure betrays a misguided view of life.  I also believe that a miserable life is not synonymous with a virtuous life.  But far be it from me! to tell my children to do whatever makes them happy, or whatever feels good, or whatever they want to.  I believe that, as humans, our desires and wishes are flawed and skewed and not the best guide to living a good life.  And I also believe that fleeting pleasure and happiness can often lead to longer-lasting pain and regret.

I don't disagree that "restraint" is a wise thing to teach kids, and you need to learn about hard work and sacrifice. That we're 100% in agreement with. My goal with my son is to remove certain stigmas (I'm sure there's a better way to pluralize that) about things deemed "naughty" -- the human body, sex, alcohol, drugs, etc. I'm not saying I want my kid taking an 8-ball of coke on his 15th birthday. I will say if you make certain subject not taboo that the need to experiment just out of PURE curiosity goes down. My parents raised me where I could have a quarter of a glass of wine when they were having one once I turned 13. I know when I got to college, some of my rural Kansan dormmates who were raised in pretty puritanical households were the ones that went out every single night. I got drunk on the weekends like a normal college kid. :) I grew up with parents who told me I shouldn't do drugs, but mentioned that they had smoked weed in the past and done coke once. I never had an extreme desire to experiment with that stuff and didn't touch a drug other than alcohol and caffeine until I was 30, and it still remains that I've only used cannabis. No gateway there.

Re: sex which is where this whole conversation started. I was kind of a goody-two-shoes in high school to a degree. 4th in my class, never got in trouble. Didn't really drink at all in high school. Did have some "extracurriculars" with some ladies, but didn't lose my virginity until college, despite having three different girlfriends willing to have sex. I look back now and I don't really know why I said "no". I liked them; they liked me. I owned condoms just in case I ever found myself in that situation, but I had something in my mind about virginity that it was this thing I needed to hold onto, despite me not being religious. So I basically waited three years from when I was first "offered" sex until I actually did it. And guess what, from the time I broke up with my girlfriend that I had lost my virginity to? I waited a whopping two weeks to have sex with someone else, and probably a month for my third. So what was so special that I had to wait for one person, but then once I was a "seasoned pro", then it didn't matter anymore? Almost all of my friends who went to college as virgins followed the same path. Once you did it, okay, that was fun. Why don't I do that again? So, tl;dr, I don't want to put a stigma on sex with my son where he will feel awkward or embarrassed or hesitant to enjoy one of life's pleasures.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 08:49:53 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 07:29:38 PM
I'm not entirely sure that the concept of a marriage merging two people's lives that deeply is necessarily relevant or even desirable in modern society. Taking my own marriage as an example, I love traveling but it stresses my wife out, and she loves concerts and I despise them, so we are always going to have certain activities we undertake without the other (solution: bring a friend that likes that instead).

But, more to the sub-topic at hand, a married couple does make financial decisions together.  It's rather unsettling to me when an unmarried couple buys a house together or buys a car together.  That's a huge financial commitment, when one of them could just up and leave.  For example, a friend of mine had been paying for the insurance on his girlfriend's car, and then they split up.  Then, before that, I had a co-worker who lived with her boyfriend for years until she left him–except that the one with car wasn't the one whose name was on the title.

Do you not agree that, if people are in a life position to be making financial decisions together, they ought to also incur one another's financial burdens?

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 07:29:38 PM
And I'm certainly not the sort of person who dictates to my partner what they're supposed to do, who they're allowed to see, what life choices they must make, etc. I would hope that that sort of mindset is trending toward extinction in this country, but I'm sure it's more prevalent than I'd like.

My "circle" is made up mainly of conservative, right-wing, Evangelical, Trump-voting, church-going, mask-hating, creationist, ummmm, you get the idea.  And yet, even in that context, a man who manages his wife's life in the way you describe is upsetting.  Allow me to give you a very personal example:

Our best friends, who are currently Christian missionaries in Mexico, are like that.  He is strongly opinionated, always needs to be right, and has high bars that he expects his wife and children to meet.  He micromanages his wife's affairs and criticizes her when she doesn't live up to his standards.  She, on the other hand, is by nature timid and subservient and capitulating.  She rarely speaks up for herself, always gives in, doesn't put up a fight.  They're perfect for each other, and at the same time they're terrible for each other.  My wife and I aren't ones to meddle in someone else's business, so for the most part we've simply gritted out teeth and accepted that that's the way our friends' marriage "works".  But, over the years, it has become apparent that we're not the only ones who see.  My father at one point expressed deep concern to my wife and me about our friend's unhealthy relationship dynamic, for example.

Then, in March this year, our pastor and I traveled down to Mexico to visit with them and their ministry partners there.  Ahead of our trip, their strategic coordinator (a longtime friend of my wife's, who is now a Baptist pastor in the RGV of Texas) expressed to me via Zoom call that he had serious concerns about how their marriage dynamic might be negatively affecting their Christian witness.  While we were in Mexico, out in one of the villages they minister in, our pastor and I went off into an arroyo with their Mexican pastor.  He's an amazing man.  His deep dark skin betrays both his indigenous blood (he's originally from Chiapas) and also his love of doing manual labor outside.  He's the kind of pastor who always wears a collared shirt, who outright calls smoking a sin, whose wife never wears trousers, and who takes the Bible very literally.  He's also very respectful and never wishes to speak ill of anyone else–lest his speech border on gossip.  He's the kind of man you can trust with your life.  Anyway, we went off with him alone into an arroyo, and I asked him about our friends.  And he gave us his straight and honest opinion, and told us of the conversations he'd had with him about it.  And then, after that, our pastor and I sat down at our friends' dinner table in the evening and confronted them frankly about it.  It was his responsibility as a pastor and my responsibility as a friend to say that his behavior toward his wife is unacceptable.  (That was a hard conversation for me to have, as his best friend, and it's hard for me to write about it now.)

Here's my point in all of this:  All of us involved in that situation are pretty traditional when it comes to marriage.  We aren't on the Left.  We're pretty solidly on the Right.  And "that sort of mindset" that you mentioned is unacceptable to us.  You have to go pretty far to the fringes to find people who accept it as normal.  Traditionalist Muslims, I suppose, or white-supremacist rednecks.  (I have cousins who, I recently found out, refer to their families' land in Kentucky as "the compound".  Yeah, probably them.)

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 07:29:38 PM
But it's really hard for me to reconcile the ideas of "two become one flesh" and "two equal partners maintaining their own free will and opinions".

To me, those two things go together–they don't stand in opposition to one another.  Part of the "becoming one flesh" process is learning to harmonize your wills and opinions.  Compromise assumes different wills and opinions, yet it's part of becoming one flesh.  Learning to try things the other likes assumes different wills and opinions, yet it's part of becoming one flesh.  Learning to resolve a disagreement and find unity therein assumes different wills and opinions, yet it's part of becoming one flesh.

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 07:46:23 PM
The ministry she registered through was a simple web form she filled out, and I think she had to pay some nominal fee to the ministry.  They then listed her as a "minister" in their rolls. As I said, we did an end-run around it. The most difficult part of the process was Cleveland County deciding the day of the ceremony that her certificate wasn't printed on fancy enough paper (we had to rush to an office-supply store to get some suitable certificate paper, rush back home to re-print the certificate, then back to the courthouse to resubmit it).

But I imagine that practice made it a lot harder for non-religious folks to get married in Oklahoma before the Internet existed.

Yeah, you're not making it sound any better, there.  It's ridiculous.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on May 26, 2022, 09:00:04 PM
I'll throw out one that might be tangentially related in some ways (OK, not really, but still...)

Hair is overrated, and particularly the idea amongst men that natural hair loss must be avoided, mitigated, and postponed at all costs.  I don't keep facial hair myself and never will, but I prefer to keep my hair quite short (it's already thinning a bit, thanks to genetics), and I always like how it looks best in the first 1-2 weeks after a haircut, since the thinning isn't as noticeable. And I actually think very short/shaved head and facial hair looks good on many people, even if they're bald. So don't expect me to be shopping for hair loss prevention products, even though I'm in the supposed target market for said products.  :)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 09:06:39 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 26, 2022, 09:00:04 PM
I'll throw out one that might be tangentially related in some ways (OK, not really, but still...)

Hair is overrated, and particularly the idea amongst men that natural hair loss must be avoided, mitigated, and postponed at all costs.  I don't keep facial hair myself and never will, but I prefer to keep my hair quite short (it's already thinning a bit, thanks to genetics), and I always like how it looks best in the first 1-2 weeks after a haircut, since the thinning isn't as noticeable. And I actually think very short/shaved head and facial hair looks good on many people, even if they're bald. So don't expect me to be shopping for hair loss prevention products, even though I'm in the supposed target market for said products.  :)

I've never worried about going bald or going grey.  My wife has always said she thinks that would look good on my anyway.  I'm already thinning out on top.

The funny thing is, though, she's freaking out that her own hair is starting to turn white.  And I think it looks hot.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on May 26, 2022, 09:10:15 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:53:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 12:49:43 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 12:24:48 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 08:47:14 AM
1. Dating, especially before college.

High school dating is a complete waste of time, money, and effort that could be better directed towards academics, extracurriculars, or community service.

I mean, I feel like dating in high school is specifically for some of those extracurriculars...

Are we on the same page here? By "extracurriculars," I'm referring to stuff like sports and clubs in school.

He's talking about fucking.

9. Premarital sex.

Or, at least, pre-engagement sex. Again, sorry if I'm sounding like your parents, but... fuck fucking. :biggrin: Hard to pass the opportunity to say that. I'd rather sit out on a fleeting sense of temporary superficial primordial pleasure than to risk exposure to STDs like syphilis and AIDS, causing unplanned pregnancies, and ruining other people's lives. It's so upsetting how the age at which people have been getting into intimate relationships has been getting lower and lower over the years.

10. The 1980s.

80's culture isn't as "groovy" as a lot of people make it out to be, especially people who were born after the 80's.

If it's fleeting and superficial, you might be doing something wrong.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 09:20:35 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 09:06:39 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 26, 2022, 09:00:04 PM
I'll throw out one that might be tangentially related in some ways (OK, not really, but still...)

Hair is overrated, and particularly the idea amongst men that natural hair loss must be avoided, mitigated, and postponed at all costs.  I don't keep facial hair myself and never will, but I prefer to keep my hair quite short (it's already thinning a bit, thanks to genetics), and I always like how it looks best in the first 1-2 weeks after a haircut, since the thinning isn't as noticeable. And I actually think very short/shaved head and facial hair looks good on many people, even if they're bald. So don't expect me to be shopping for hair loss prevention products, even though I'm in the supposed target market for said products.  :)

I've never worried about going bald or going grey.  My wife has always said she thinks that would look good on my anyway.  I'm already thinning out on top.

The funny thing is, though, she's freaking out that her own hair is starting to turn white.  And I think it looks hot.

I'm similar. I don't want to lose my hair, but if I do, oh well. Genetics says that I might since my maternal grandfather was pretty thin. That said, when I do, I'll just bic it and rock the bald head and beard. I don't care one bit about going grey. When it happens, it happens.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 09:23:40 PM
Re: the topic of marriage, prior to gay marriage being legalized, I had a shirt that said "I don't believe in straight marriage." I think civil unions as far as the government and insurance companies are concerned should be equal no matter what the genders/sexes/etc. I don't think the government should get involved with what a church does (other than obvious things like murder, etc.) anymore than the church should get involved with what government does.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 09:32:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 08:49:53 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 07:29:38 PM
I'm not entirely sure that the concept of a marriage merging two people's lives that deeply is necessarily relevant or even desirable in modern society. Taking my own marriage as an example, I love traveling but it stresses my wife out, and she loves concerts and I despise them, so we are always going to have certain activities we undertake without the other (solution: bring a friend that likes that instead).

But, more to the sub-topic at hand, a married couple does make financial decisions together.  It's rather unsettling to me when an unmarried couple buys a house together or buys a car together.  That's a huge financial commitment, when one of them could just up and leave.  For example, a friend of mine had been paying for the insurance on his girlfriend's car, and then they split up.  Then, before that, I had a co-worker who lived with her boyfriend for years until she left him–except that the one with car wasn't the one whose name was on the title.

Do you not agree that, if people are in a life position to be making financial decisions together, they ought to also incur one another's financial burdens?

Oh, you're not wrong. And that was one of the reasons I married my wife before we bought a house together. But there's a lot of different ways that sort of thing could be managed, they're just more legally cumbersome than a marriage. Two people could own equal shares in a corporation that owns the house and charges both of them rent, for instance, and it would accomplish mostly the same goals.

Before my wife and I got married, we ran a ledger that we kept track of all of the bills (other than rent) on. Any bill that I paid was entered as a positive number on there, and any bill my wife paid was entered as a negative number. Whichever side of zero the balance was on determined whose turn it was to pay. Sometimes my wife would be short on funds and the balance ran positive for longer than it was "supposed to", and that was okay. The system worked well, but we retired it whenever we got married and merged our funds.

Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 08:49:53 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 07:29:38 PM
And I'm certainly not the sort of person who dictates to my partner what they're supposed to do, who they're allowed to see, what life choices they must make, etc. I would hope that that sort of mindset is trending toward extinction in this country, but I'm sure it's more prevalent than I'd like.

My "circle" is made up mainly of conservative, right-wing, Evangelical, Trump-voting, church-going, mask-hating, creationist, ummmm, you get the idea.  And yet, even in that context, a man who manages his wife's life in the way you describe is upsetting.

Hearing that makes me feel better. My circle doesn't include a lot of people of the sort you describe, especially in my age group, so I'm somewhat out of touch with what the prevailing norms are in those circles. And I'm glad that people are willing to speak up when they see that happening, even though it's a difficult conversation to have.

Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 08:49:53 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 07:29:38 PM
But it's really hard for me to reconcile the ideas of "two become one flesh" and "two equal partners maintaining their own free will and opinions".

To me, those two things go together–they don't stand in opposition to one another.  Part of the "becoming one flesh" process is learning to harmonize your wills and opinions.  Compromise assumes different wills and opinions, yet it's part of becoming one flesh.  Learning to try things the other likes assumes different wills and opinions, yet it's part of becoming one flesh.  Learning to resolve a disagreement and find unity therein assumes different wills and opinions, yet it's part of becoming one flesh.

This makes a lot of sense. I definitely think that compromise, harmony, and coming to an agreement is important. It's just that the phrase "becoming one flesh" doesn't really read that way if you're not familiar with the nuance of the term.

Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 08:49:53 PM
Yeah, you're not making it sound any better, there.  It's ridiculous.

This has me wondering how many aspects of what I'd consider normal, day-to-day life in Oklahoma would be hair-raising to anyone from any other state. It's possible that, even with Oklahoma's low standing in most people's eyes, that it is somehow still overrated and thus a candidate for this thread.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 26, 2022, 09:34:47 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 09:20:35 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 09:06:39 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 26, 2022, 09:00:04 PM
I'll throw out one that might be tangentially related in some ways (OK, not really, but still...)

Hair is overrated, and particularly the idea amongst men that natural hair loss must be avoided, mitigated, and postponed at all costs.  I don't keep facial hair myself and never will, but I prefer to keep my hair quite short (it's already thinning a bit, thanks to genetics), and I always like how it looks best in the first 1-2 weeks after a haircut, since the thinning isn't as noticeable. And I actually think very short/shaved head and facial hair looks good on many people, even if they're bald. So don't expect me to be shopping for hair loss prevention products, even though I'm in the supposed target market for said products.  :)

I've never worried about going bald or going grey.  My wife has always said she thinks that would look good on my anyway.  I'm already thinning out on top.

The funny thing is, though, she's freaking out that her own hair is starting to turn white.  And I think it looks hot.

I'm similar. I don't want to lose my hair, but if I do, oh well. Genetics says that I might since my maternal grandfather was pretty thin. That said, when I do, I'll just bic it and rock the bald head and beard. I don't care one bit about going grey. When it happens, it happens.

I've had grey hair in my beard since my early 20s.  I tend to look far younger than I actually when I shave which is why my wife insists I keep facial hair.  My Dad was completely grey by his early 30s but never had his hair thin.  My brother appears to be going bald but I haven't seen evidence with me.  If I started going bald I would just shave my head, it helps keep my scalp clean when I run anyways. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on May 26, 2022, 09:48:18 PM
My hairline's receded a bit since my 20s, and I have some grey hairs mixed in, but I actually have fewer greys than I did 3-4 years ago. My girlfriend, who just turned 30, freaked out when she got her first grey.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 26, 2022, 10:11:06 PM
Thread's overrated now.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 10:12:56 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 09:32:17 PM
This makes a lot of sense. I definitely think that compromise, harmony, and coming to an agreement is important. It's just that the phrase "becoming one flesh" doesn't really read that way if you're not familiar with the nuance of the term.

That part of the Hebrew scriptures were written in ... oh, probably by the seventh Century BC or so.  The stories contained therein surely have an oral tradition that extends back well beyond that date, but the written form is from somewhere around then.  And ancient Hebrew is a very concrete language.  It had nowhere near the amount of vocabulary that modern English does (nor that the Koine Greek of the New Testament had), and non-physical realities were most naturally described in physical terms.  Thus, the union of husband and wife was naturally described in terms of flesh.  It surely does involve the physical act of sexual intercourse, but the idea extends well beyond that.



Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 09:20:35 PM
I don't want to lose my hair, but if I do, oh well. Genetics says that I might since my maternal grandfather was pretty thin. That said, when I do, I'll just bic it and rock the bald head and beard.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 26, 2022, 09:34:47 PM
If I started going bald I would just shave my head,

Am I the only who wouldn't shave his head if he started going bald?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 26, 2022, 10:15:24 PM
Why hang onto scraps?  I've shaved my head before, I like the clean feel.  My wife is the one who stops me from doing it now. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bulldog1979 on May 27, 2022, 05:14:14 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 25, 2022, 06:51:49 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 24, 2022, 11:28:59 PM
Glenwood Canyon. It's pretty and all, but is it really this sort of mandated pilgrimage every roadgeek needs to drive, film, and promote their visit to?
Not a matter of scenery, but the engineering feat of it.

If you want to appreciate the road engineering though, take the train. You'll see it much better from the tracks on the other side of the river.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bulldog1979 on May 27, 2022, 06:40:45 AM
Now I have an interesting perspective on a few topics to toss out after catching up a couple pages of comments. In high school, I was also a "goodie two shoes" type, busy with academics and extracurriculars. My parents let me drink a half glass of wine with them from time to time as a teenager. It removed some of the mystery, and all these years later, I've still never been drunk. I do enjoy a beverage from time to time though. So I tend to agree that removing some of the taboo, when done responsibly, is a good thing
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bulldog1979 on May 27, 2022, 07:12:05 AM
As for sex and marriage, I started coming out as a freshman in college in late 1997 and early 1998. At the time, non-procreative sexual activity was still a felony in Michigan, and it would be until Lawrence v. Texas was decided in 2003. We were still 17 years away from Obergefell v. Hodges legalizing same-sex marriage in my home state. So pre-marital sex became a meaningless concept once I started dating guys instead of girls, because marriage has only been a real option for a few years now.

My maternal grandma was actively researching my mom's family tree starting in the 1980s. I picked up an interest in middle school, and really did when I signed up for Ancestry.com in 2012. Grandma passed away in February 2020, and recently I started going through her notebooks to add to what I have online and expand on her research. I've found some situations in the family that must have been scandalous at the time. As a teenager, I had no desire to have children in the future, and my recent genealogy work, along with a few other things lately, has me wondering about the possibilities for the first time since then.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 27, 2022, 07:55:54 AM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on May 27, 2022, 06:40:45 AM
Now I have an interesting perspective on a few topics to toss out after catching up a couple pages of comments. In high school, I was also a "goodie two shoes" type, busy with academics and extracurriculars. My parents let me drink a half glass of wine with them from time to time as a teenager. It removed some of the mystery, and all these years later, I've still never been drunk. I do enjoy a beverage from time to time though. So I tend to agree that removing some of the taboo, when done responsibly, is a good thing

My Dad was a ardent teatotaler because his father and all his siblings had alcohol issues.  He was really big on conveying the message that the same could/would happen to me and my siblings if we drank.  I recall that really hyping alcohol up to be this wonder beverage that would have almost an instantaneous effect.  My cousin actually offered me some beers at his wedding when I was 12, so I took him up on it.  They actually weren't bad to the taste but it totally demystified everything my Dad had built alcohol up to be.  I do like a drink now and then but it is incredibly rare that I get drunk.  I get that alcoholism is an addiction people can't control, but it seems unfathomable from a personal perspective becoming one myself.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 27, 2022, 09:21:41 AM
After further reflection, it seems to me that perhaps the civil institution of marriage isn't necessarily overrated.  Consider the following hypothetical situations:

1.  You suffer a sudden medical incident, and you wind up on life support in the hospital.  At what relationship level should someone be allowed to make medical decisions on your behalf?  Someone you just started dating?  Someone you're in a casual sexual relationship with?  Someone you've been living with for eleven days?  Someone you've been living with for eleven years?  Your spouse?

2.  Your child's other parent drives with your child to the Mexican border, applying for an in-transit travel permit on the way to Guatemala.  Should the immigration officer require your written permission for your child to be leaving the country without you?  If the two of you are married?  Divorced?  Never married?  What if you aren't even the child's father, but you've been in a "committed relationship" with the mother for three years?  Thirteen years?  Three months?

The civil institution of marriage provides, if nothing else, one option for a clear-cut decision to be made on issues like these.  And isn't that a valuable thing to have in a society?

Quote from: skluth on May 26, 2022, 07:08:22 PM
For all its romanticism and religious background, marriage is mostly a legally binding contract between two people.

A legally binding contract to what, exactly?  That's an interesting question.  It's obviously about more than just finances, legal rights, and responsibilities.  To illustrate that assertion, consider the following questions:

Is it a legally binding contract that people who don't share a household should be able to enter into?  People who aren't even in a romantic relationship at all?  For example, if my sister were infirm, and I lived with her full-time, then should I be able to enter into a marriage contract with her?  What about a daughter and her ageing father?  A younger daughter and her not-ageing father?  Is there anything that should prevent one man from entering into a marriage contract with two women simultaneously?  Four?  Nine?  Imagine a religious commune in which membership requires being paired up randomly with someone else in the commune in such a contract, but membership in the commune is completely voluntary:  should that be allowed?  Should people with a substantial illness or handicap be allowed to enter into a marriage contract, when the severity of their condition might be grounds for other legal contracts to be voided?  Etc.

Obviously, everyone's answers to these questions will vary, but my point is that–no matter what those specific answers are for each individual answering them–there's likely something about marriage that sets it apart from other legal contracts.  That is to say, there's an underlying (even if not explicitly understood) reason one's answers might differ on some points from what they would be regarding other legally binding contracts.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on May 27, 2022, 04:16:36 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2022, 09:21:41 AM
After further reflection, it seems to me that perhaps the civil institution of marriage isn't necessarily overrated.  Consider the following hypothetical situations:

1.  You suffer a sudden medical incident, and you wind up on life support in the hospital.  At what relationship level should someone be allowed to make medical decisions on your behalf?  Someone you just started dating?  Someone you're in a casual sexual relationship with?  Someone you've been living with for eleven days?  Someone you've been living with for eleven years?  Your spouse?

2.  Your child's other parent drives with your child to the Mexican border, applying for an in-transit travel permit on the way to Guatemala.  Should the immigration officer require your written permission for your child to be leaving the country without you?  If the two of you are married?  Divorced?  Never married?  What if you aren't even the child's father, but you've been in a "committed relationship" with the mother for three years?  Thirteen years?  Three months?

The civil institution of marriage provides, if nothing else, one option for a clear-cut decision to be made on issues like these.  And isn't that a valuable thing to have in a society?

Quote from: skluth on May 26, 2022, 07:08:22 PM
For all its romanticism and religious background, marriage is mostly a legally binding contract between two people.

A legally binding contract to what, exactly?  That's an interesting question.  It's obviously about more than just finances, legal rights, and responsibilities.  To illustrate that assertion, consider the following questions:

Is it a legally binding contract that people who don't share a household should be able to enter into?  People who aren't even in a romantic relationship at all?  For example, if my sister were infirm, and I lived with her full-time, then should I be able to enter into a marriage contract with her?  What about a daughter and her ageing father?  A younger daughter and her not-ageing father?  Is there anything that should prevent one man from entering into a marriage contract with two women simultaneously?  Four?  Nine?  Imagine a religious commune in which membership requires being paired up randomly with someone else in the commune in such a contract, but membership in the commune is completely voluntary:  should that be allowed?  Should people with a substantial illness or handicap be allowed to enter into a marriage contract, when the severity of their condition might be grounds for other legal contracts to be voided?  Etc.

Obviously, everyone's answers to these questions will vary, but my point is that–no matter what those specific answers are for each individual answering them–there's likely something about marriage that sets it apart from other legal contracts.  That is to say, there's an underlying (even if not explicitly understood) reason one's answers might differ on some points from what they would be regarding other legally binding contracts.

To what depends on where you live. However, there are other legal actions that do much the same. Before gay marriage was legal, my then-partner and I created a number of documents to allow us to live together almost like we were married. We had wills, powers of attorney, durable powers of attorney, and a co-owned house where ownership conferred to the survivor. A lesbian attorney with experience in those matters drew up all the documents. We also registered with the primary hospital in St Louis as partners and made sure our doctor knew so had either of us been hospitalized we had a chance of having our decisions respected. I had several friends who went through the same thing. Despite all that, there was no guarantee the state of Missouri would have respected all we did should something tragic have happened and there's a long legal record of disputes where the law sided with the relatives of the deceased over a surviving gay partner. That's the strength of a marriage contract and why gay marriage was so important.

Many of those same documents can be used in your examples should you need the legal reason to do so. For example, my former partner is long dead and I'm single, so currently I have both regular and durable powers of attorney which allow two of my brothers to make medical decisions on my behalf if necessary. Neither brother lives in California. I hope it never comes to that but I'm retired, single, and do what I have to do.

I'm not arguing against marriage. I think it's a wonderful thing and hope that every marriage works out. I've known a few people in triad relationships (though I have absolutely no desire to be in one), but that's unlikely to be legalized as marriage in the near future. I just was pointing out that marriage is a legal contract with rights already defined and nobody questions those rights.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: XamotCGC on May 27, 2022, 04:28:56 PM
Family Guy
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on May 27, 2022, 04:32:50 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 27, 2022, 04:28:56 PM
Family Guy

Not as overrated as Seth MacFarlane himself
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 27, 2022, 04:35:24 PM
Quote from: skluth on May 27, 2022, 04:32:50 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 27, 2022, 04:28:56 PM
Family Guy

Not as overrated as Seth MacFarlane himself
I like The Orville, it's a loving homage to ST:TNG.

Family Guy and its wall-to-wall barrage of ironic bigotry can go fuck itself, though.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 27, 2022, 04:37:44 PM
Quote from: skluth on May 27, 2022, 04:32:50 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 27, 2022, 04:28:56 PM
Family Guy

Not as overrated as Seth MacFarlane himself

Family Guy used to be better until MacFarlane got stretched out with too many other simultaneous projects like the Cleveland Show (before that ended), American Dad, his occasional movies, The Orville, etc. where quality probably started lacking because he and his staff had too much shit to put out to be able to make sure they were doing a good job.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 27, 2022, 04:45:31 PM
Movies
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 27, 2022, 05:10:30 PM
Quote from: skluth on May 27, 2022, 04:16:36 PM
To what depends on where you live. However, there are other legal actions that do much the same. Before gay marriage was legal, my then-partner and I created a number of documents to allow us to live together almost like we were married. We had wills, powers of attorney, durable powers of attorney, and a co-owned house where ownership conferred to the survivor. A lesbian attorney with experience in those matters drew up all the documents. We also registered with the primary hospital in St Louis as partners and made sure our doctor knew so had either of us been hospitalized we had a chance of having our decisions respected. I had several friends who went through the same thing. Despite all that, there was no guarantee the state of Missouri would have respected all we did should something tragic have happened and there's a long legal record of disputes where the law sided with the relatives of the deceased over a surviving gay partner. That's the strength of a marriage contract and why gay marriage was so important.

Many of those same documents can be used in your examples should you need the legal reason to do so. For example, my former partner is long dead and I'm single, so currently I have both regular and durable powers of attorney which allow two of my brothers to make medical decisions on my behalf if necessary. Neither brother lives in California. I hope it never comes to that but I'm retired, single, and do what I have to do.

You're kind of proving my point (I'm not sure if you were trying to, or if you were arguing against it):  you had a whole mess of hoops to jump through in the absence of legal marriage, whereas a simple marriage certificate would have sufficed for most of them.  Abandoning the institution of marriage, then, every couple would have to jump through such hoops in order to receive the same benefits.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on May 27, 2022, 06:15:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2022, 09:21:41 AM
After further reflection, it seems to me that perhaps the civil institution of marriage isn't necessarily overrated.  Consider the following hypothetical situations:

1.  You suffer a sudden medical incident, and you wind up on life support in the hospital.  At what relationship level should someone be allowed to make medical decisions on your behalf?  Someone you just started dating?  Someone you're in a casual sexual relationship with?  Someone you've been living with for eleven days?  Someone you've been living with for eleven years?  Your spouse?

2.  Your child's other parent drives with your child to the Mexican border, applying for an in-transit travel permit on the way to Guatemala.  Should the immigration officer require your written permission for your child to be leaving the country without you?  If the two of you are married?  Divorced?  Never married?  What if you aren't even the child's father, but you've been in a "committed relationship" with the mother for three years?  Thirteen years?  Three months?

The civil institution of marriage provides, if nothing else, one option for a clear-cut decision to be made on issues like these.  And isn't that a valuable thing to have in a society?

1.  By far the best solution to this issue is to make a medical power of attorney.  Usually the same attorney who makes a will can make one.  It allows you to list several people who you authorize to make medical decisions for you.  The marriage contract allows a spouse to make those decisions - but only the spouse.  What if you and your spouse are traveling in the same car that wrecks and neither of you are in any condition to make medical decisions?  With a medical POA it's all layed out.  With just a marriage, if the spouse is unable, the hospital has to go hunting for parents, siblings, of-age children, or cousins, hoping that whoever they happen to contact will have some idea what you might want and be willing to advocate for you (rather than their own opinions).

2.  I don't think this is a marriage issue at all - it's parental rights, not marriage rights.  The Customs and Immigration folks should be getting a notarized letter from whichever birth parents are not crossing the border with them, and the child's birth certificate.  The letter should have a rough itinerary and contact along the way - hotel reservations, a person you're visiting, something.  If a parent is dead or their parental rights have been terminated, there would be appropriate documents to show instead of a permission letter.  Child kidnapping is, unfortunately, a thing that can happen if a parent feels they haven't got enough joint custody or visitation time, or if those rights have been terminated.  I and my ex-spouse each traveled outside the country with our child several times and this is what we did each time. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on May 27, 2022, 07:08:51 PM
Marriage as a legal construct inherits a lot of residue from the days when it fell within the jurisdiction of ecclesiastical courts, determined the legitimacy of children, governed what parts, if any, of her property a woman controlled, and defined who could inherit from a deceased person.  (Before the introduction of civil divorce, in many jurisdictions dissolving a marriage required promoting a private bill in the legislature--in the US these are considered constitutionally permissible but anomalous.)  Not all of these aspects have been addressed through statute law reform, though many have:  e.g., in the 1970's there was a movement among US states to relieve the disabilities of being born out of wedlock.

Even now some conventions still persist despite seeming obsolete at first glance.  One is Lord Mansfield's Rule--essentially, "You cannot make a bastard of your own child," i.e., an acknowledgment of paternity cannot be withdrawn.  This came into play in the Kansas case of In re. Marriage of Ross, where a wife tried to wrest custody of her son from her husband, claiming her lover was the child's biological father, and failed because their marriage at the time of the child's birth gave the husband presumptive paternity.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on May 27, 2022, 07:10:38 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 27, 2022, 05:10:30 PM
Quote from: skluth on May 27, 2022, 04:16:36 PM
To what depends on where you live. However, there are other legal actions that do much the same. Before gay marriage was legal, my then-partner and I created a number of documents to allow us to live together almost like we were married. We had wills, powers of attorney, durable powers of attorney, and a co-owned house where ownership conferred to the survivor. A lesbian attorney with experience in those matters drew up all the documents. We also registered with the primary hospital in St Louis as partners and made sure our doctor knew so had either of us been hospitalized we had a chance of having our decisions respected. I had several friends who went through the same thing. Despite all that, there was no guarantee the state of Missouri would have respected all we did should something tragic have happened and there's a long legal record of disputes where the law sided with the relatives of the deceased over a surviving gay partner. That's the strength of a marriage contract and why gay marriage was so important.

Many of those same documents can be used in your examples should you need the legal reason to do so. For example, my former partner is long dead and I'm single, so currently I have both regular and durable powers of attorney which allow two of my brothers to make medical decisions on my behalf if necessary. Neither brother lives in California. I hope it never comes to that but I'm retired, single, and do what I have to do.

You're kind of proving my point (I'm not sure if you were trying to, or if you were arguing against it):  you had a whole mess of hoops to jump through in the absence of legal marriage, whereas a simple marriage certificate would have sufficed for most of them.  Abandoning the institution of marriage, then, every couple would have to jump through such hoops in order to receive the same benefits.

I wasn't arguing at all as I didn't disagree with you. I was clarifying my statement in relation to your comments. I am certainly not arguing against abandoning marriage.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on May 27, 2022, 07:34:15 PM
Standard time is overrated. Way overrated. DST is much better.  :bigass:



Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:14:26 PM
8. Drinking alcohol.

I'm going to sound like a lot of members' mothers right here, but I honestly don't see the appeal of drinking merrily and getting wasted. It's not a healthy habit at all. Heck, even caffeine might fall under this category. (I swear I'm not Mormon!)

Those are two very different things.

I've never understood the appeal of getting wasted either.  Even just a headache the next morning is bad enough to keep me within my limit.  And acting like a complete fool of myself is not something that appeals to me.

But having just one or two drinks is a very pleasant thing.  It relaxes me, it makes me more chatty (for better or worse), and–when consumed with a bit of charcuterie or some olives and cheese–can give me a brief moment of feeling "fancy".
[/quote]

I may be weird, but I don't really see the point in drinking alcoholic beverages if the intent isn't to become buzzed or intoxicated or otherwise have your mind/perception/senses altered.

I'm actually amazed that there are people who like beer, bourbon, etc., for the taste and not for the intoxicating effects.

If I'm thirsty, I will probably drink a Diet Coke. If I want to become under the influence; well, that's the only reason I'm going to drink alcohol. (And I have done it so rarely the last 29 years that I might as well be a teetotaler.)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: XamotCGC on May 27, 2022, 11:24:07 PM
Golden Corral
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on May 27, 2022, 11:36:52 PM
Quote
Quote from: hbelkins on May 27, 2022, 07:34:15 PM
Standard time is overrated. Way overrated. DST is much better.  :bigass:



Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:14:26 PM
8. Drinking alcohol.

I'm going to sound like a lot of members' mothers right here, but I honestly don't see the appeal of drinking merrily and getting wasted. It's not a healthy habit at all. Heck, even caffeine might fall under this category. (I swear I'm not Mormon!)

Those are two very different things.

I've never understood the appeal of getting wasted either.  Even just a headache the next morning is bad enough to keep me within my limit.  And acting like a complete fool of myself is not something that appeals to me.

But having just one or two drinks is a very pleasant thing.  It relaxes me, it makes me more chatty (for better or worse), and—when consumed with a bit of charcuterie or some olives and cheese—can give me a brief moment of feeling "fancy".

I may be weird, but I don't really see the point in drinking alcoholic beverages if the intent isn't to become buzzed or intoxicated or otherwise have your mind/perception/senses altered.

I'm actually amazed that there are people who like beer, bourbon, etc., for the taste and not for the intoxicating effects.

If I'm thirsty, I will probably drink a Diet Coke. If I want to become under the influence; well, that's the only reason I'm going to drink alcohol. (And I have done it so rarely the last 29 years that I might as well be a teetotaler.)

There are some alcoholic drinks that actually taste good. Wine, champagne, mixers. And even some beer. Not that I'm an expert yet. But yes, drinking to at least get a little buzz is definitely why a lot of people drink.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 28, 2022, 06:02:15 AM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 27, 2022, 11:24:07 PM
Golden Corral
Yep.  Suffers from Olive Garden Syndrome.  Lots of people love it and it sucks.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on May 28, 2022, 09:14:39 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 28, 2022, 06:02:15 AM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 27, 2022, 11:24:07 PM
Golden Corral
Yep.  Suffers from Olive Garden Syndrome.  Lots of people love it and it sucks.

The steak is admittedly not that great, but the food on the buffet can be quite tasty.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 28, 2022, 11:45:51 PM


Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2022, 09:14:39 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 28, 2022, 06:02:15 AM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 27, 2022, 11:24:07 PM
Golden Corral
Yep.  Suffers from Olive Garden Syndrome.  Lots of people love it and it sucks.

The steak is admittedly not that great, but the food on the buffet can be quite tasty.

Complete with kids running around jamming snot-covered fingers into it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on May 29, 2022, 03:51:40 PM
Lose Yourself by Eminem
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 29, 2022, 07:36:42 PM
Quote from: thspfc on May 29, 2022, 03:51:40 PM
Lose Yourself by Eminem
Eminem has many much better songs, Lose Yourself is kinda mid.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 29, 2022, 10:12:41 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 29, 2022, 07:36:42 PM
Quote from: thspfc on May 29, 2022, 03:51:40 PM
Lose Yourself by Eminem
Eminem has many much better songs, Lose Yourself is kinda mid.

In general it's very rare that the smash hit/signature song is the best thing an artist ever recorded. Record companies like simple, catchy songs because it makes them money. They very rarely display the true talent of the artist making it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: XamotCGC on May 29, 2022, 11:08:31 PM
slim shady
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 29, 2022, 11:13:35 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 29, 2022, 11:08:31 PM
slim shady

Marshall Mathers is more overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 31, 2022, 04:47:57 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 29, 2022, 10:12:41 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 29, 2022, 07:36:42 PM
Quote from: thspfc on May 29, 2022, 03:51:40 PM
Lose Yourself by Eminem
Eminem has many much better songs, Lose Yourself is kinda mid.

In general it's very rare that the smash hit/signature song is the best thing an artist ever recorded. Record companies like simple, catchy songs because it makes them money. They very rarely display the true talent of the artist making it.

True, but it was probably easier to dub out the profanity in that song compared to some of his other work.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: XamotCGC on May 31, 2022, 09:49:13 AM
Achy Breaky Heart.   The song was overplayed when it first came out.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 31, 2022, 11:33:05 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 28, 2022, 11:45:51 PM


Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2022, 09:14:39 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 28, 2022, 06:02:15 AM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 27, 2022, 11:24:07 PM
Golden Corral
Yep.  Suffers from Olive Garden Syndrome.  Lots of people love it and it sucks.

The steak is admittedly not that great, but the food on the buffet can be quite tasty.

Complete with kids running around jamming snot-covered fingers into it.
That's what makes it so tasty!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: paulthemapguy on May 31, 2022, 11:36:44 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 29, 2022, 11:58:28 AM
Moderated forums. (Really, content moderation/censorship in general).

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Everyone look out, we got a badass.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 03:48:11 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 12:20:36 PM

Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:14:26 PM
8. Drinking alcohol.

I'm going to sound like a lot of members' mothers right here, but I honestly don't see the appeal of drinking merrily and getting wasted. It's not a healthy habit at all. Heck, even caffeine might fall under this category. (I swear I'm not Mormon!)

Those are two very different things.

I've never understood the appeal of getting wasted either.  Even just a headache the next morning is bad enough to keep me within my limit.  And acting like a complete fool of myself is not something that appeals to me.

But having just one or two drinks is a very pleasant thing.  It relaxes me, it makes me more chatty (for better or worse), and–when consumed with a bit of charcuterie or some olives and cheese–can give me a brief moment of feeling "fancy".

Quote from: hbelkins on May 27, 2022, 07:34:15 PM
I may be weird, but I don't really see the point in drinking alcoholic beverages if the intent isn't to become buzzed or intoxicated or otherwise have your mind/perception/senses altered.

I'm actually amazed that there are people who like beer, bourbon, etc., for the taste and not for the intoxicating effects.

If I'm thirsty, I will probably drink a Diet Coke. If I want to become under the influence; well, that's the only reason I'm going to drink alcohol. (And I have done it so rarely the last 29 years that I might as well be a teetotaler.)

You seem to be approaching this with the mindset that "intoxication" means any alteration to one's state of mind.  That is to say, the ingestion of any amount of the toxin alcohol constitutes intoxication.

(I'm also guessing you don't have a problem with caffeine, which, while toxicity in humans requires a significantly greater amount than most people consume, is still technically a psychoactive toxin.  If you were to consume a cup of coffee that was, say, eight to ten times stronger than usual, you could die.  Caffeine is a substance that is enjoyable when consumed in moderation but potentially lethal at larger doses.  But that is perhaps a discussion for another time.)

At some level, I agree:  the effect of alcohol on one's behavior is by definition an intoxicating one.  However, I disagree with the notion that having a moderately altered state of mind is the definition of intoxicated.  Rather, intoxication is the state of having one's state of mind significantly altered, such that one's self control is noticeably inhibited.  Therefore, the intoxicating nature of alcohol is part of both its appeal and its danger.

I know you're a Christian, so allow me to use a Biblical example.  The intoxicating property of wine that prompted the proverb ...

"Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaining? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? Those who tarry long over wine ... (Proverbs 23:29-30a RSV)"

... is the very same intoxicating property of wine that prompted the psalmist to write ...

"Thou dost cause the grass to grow for ... man to cultivate, that he may bring forth ... wine to gladden the heart of man ... (Psalm 104:14-15a RSV)".

So, yes, I can say that having my "senses altered" is indeed part of "the point in drinking alcoholic beverages", and I believe that the moderate use of alcohol is wholly in keeping with the Christian virtues of sobriety and self-control.

But that isn't the only thing I enjoy about alcoholic beverages.  Allow me to name some others:

1.  I enjoy the flavor.

A crisp white wine or a light red wine goes great with meat off the grill during a summer holiday gathering.  A full-bodied, tannic red wine goes great with a lasagna or even a bowl of chili.  When I make rouladen for dinner every year on Epiphany, nearly a full bottle of dry red wine goes into the sauce they simmer in, and the resultant gravy is to die for when spooned over the mashed potatoes.

I really like the juniper and citrus flavors in certain kinds of gin.  Add some juniper-forward gin and a splash of triple sec to a lemonade, and I enjoy it all the more.  Or, after mowing the lawn the other day, a gin & tonic was a welcome refreshment, with the bitterness of the tonic playing nicely with the alcoholic bite of the gin and balanced out by the squeeze of lemon I added.

2.  I enjoy finding out what I like and why.

Unlike cola, for example, there are a zillion different kinds of wine.  What makes a bottle taste the way it does is a huge topic, with everything from climate to soil to ageing to grape variety to harvest date to blending to–gosh, there's so much to learn!  And that's part of what I enjoy.  For example, my wife and I both like Italian Pinot Grigio;  we recently started to branch out and try similar wines from South Africa, Oregon, Washington, and Spain.  It's fun!

I've found it similarly enjoyable to try different kinds of gin.  I find one I like, and then I try another similar one to see which I like better.  From there, I can determine which styles I prefer in general, and what I find works best in what cocktails.

3.  I enjoy the experience.

This is very, very subjective, and you may laugh at me.  But, if I spend a half-hour on the front porch with a cocktail and a small plate of crackers and stuffed cherry peppers, then for that moment I feel a little more elegant, a little less poor and plain than I otherwise am.  It's nice to carve out a moment of "culture" in my generally prosaic life.

At a holiday, a couple of bottles of wine on the table are part of what makes it feel like a holiday.  It's the same reason I put out a tablecloth, the same reason we put out the family china.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2022, 04:01:02 PM
I agree with all kphoger said. If I didn't catch any buzz at all from drinking, I would still drink alcohol because I like the taste of everything I drink. I know not everyone can just drink mezcal neat like me, but I was in the hospitality industry for many years and have learned a lot about all things beverage, and honestly, despite me being really good at making craft cocktails, when I drink, it's normally booze in a glass.

All that said, I do also drink for the relaxation it offers. I'm 40 now so I don't feel the need to get drunk like I did when I was in my 20's, but a nice mild buzz when at home isn't the worst thing in the world either.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 04:23:04 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2022, 04:01:02 PM
I know not everyone can just drink mezcal neat like me, but ...

Everything has its time and place.

My dad was a pastor in a liturgical Christian tradition.  Come Christmas, he was singing and chanting and preaching in three or four services over the course of two days.  I remember, in high school, being in the church choir and having a lot of demanding music to sing at Christmas.  We lived in a parsonage next door to the church.  I have a distinct memory of my dad and me coming home between the "regular" Christmas Eve service and the midnight service, and him pouring some mezcal for the two of us to soothe our throats.  Normally I probably wouldn't drink mezcal straight like that, but in that moment, it was perfect.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2022, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 04:23:04 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2022, 04:01:02 PM
I know not everyone can just drink mezcal neat like me, but ...

Everything has its time and place.

My dad was a pastor in a liturgical Christian tradition.  Come Christmas, he was singing and chanting and preaching in three or four services over the course of two days.  I remember, in high school, being in the church choir and having a lot of demanding music to sing at Christmas.  We lived in a parsonage next door to the church.  I have a distinct memory of my dad and me coming home between the "regular" Christmas Eve service and the midnight service, and him pouring some mezcal for the two of us to soothe our throats.  Normally I probably wouldn't drink mezcal straight like that, but in that moment, it was perfect.

I will say, if you like the nuances of gin and the different herb/citrus profiles, you'd be into mezcal. Unfortunately sampling all of the different kinds of agaves becomes an expensive habit, but they're all so unique.

Tobalá has kind of an oily texture with fruity notes.
Arroqueño has a Hatch green chile thing going on.
Guererro tastes a bit like cantaloupe.

And, depending on where it's made, it's not smoky at all. For example, in San Luís Potosí, they use copper stills as opposed to just burying the piña, so it never comes in contact with smoke.



Also, for the purposes of this thread, ultra premium vodka is massively overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 31, 2022, 05:20:18 PM
Meanwhile, I can't stomach the taste of alcohol. My taste buds are sensitive enough to it that I can instantly tell (and dislike) any dish that used wine as an ingredient, even if the cook swears the taste has cooked off. It's just not a pleasant experience for me.

But, since I started using cannabis, I can definitely appreciate why some people like a good drink after a hard day's work or when socializing with friends.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on May 31, 2022, 05:47:04 PM
Weed is more overrated than alcohol is. Not because it's that much worse, but because weed addiction is largely accepted and even glorified by society, while the obvious negative effects are ignored. The same can't be said of alcohol addiction.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 31, 2022, 06:17:57 PM
Quote from: thspfc on May 31, 2022, 05:47:04 PMNot because it's that much worse, but because weed addiction is largely accepted and even glorified by society, while the obvious negative effects are ignored. The same can't be said of alcohol addiction.
lolwut
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2022, 06:27:06 PM
Quote from: thspfc on May 31, 2022, 05:47:04 PM
Weed is more overrated than alcohol is. Not because it's that much worse, but because weed addiction is largely accepted and even glorified by society, while the obvious negative effects are ignored. The same can't be said of alcohol addiction.

I'd argue not only is weed not "much worse", it's not even close to as bad as alcohol. And it's way harder to get addicted to weed in the first place.

I'd also argue that the reason that people "glorify" weed addiction as compared to alcohol addiction is because potheads are nice and alcoholics mostly aren't.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 31, 2022, 06:38:52 PM
In my experience, you can't even really get addicted to weed, at least not physiologically. The biggest pothead I know took a month off from smoking to clear a drug test for employment purposes. The only "symptom" he experienced was being annoyed that someone was telling him he couldn't do something he enjoyed.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on May 31, 2022, 06:51:52 PM
To offer some actual data in a published article: (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3069146/)

Quote
The cumulative probability estimate of transition to dependence was 67.5% for nicotine users, 22.7% for alcohol users, 20.9% for cocaine users, and 8.9% for cannabis users.

(https://i.imgur.com/0hnj1XS.png)

As far as social costs go, the most-recent open-access information I could find is from 2002, which is admittedly a while ago. The key takeaways though are: (https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7249/mr1459rwj.14?seq=15)

(https://i.imgur.com/ukbLr5F.png)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 07:30:28 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2022, 05:06:43 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 04:23:04 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2022, 04:01:02 PM
I know not everyone can just drink mezcal neat like me, but ...

Everything has its time and place.

My dad was a pastor in a liturgical Christian tradition.  Come Christmas, he was singing and chanting and preaching in three or four services over the course of two days.  I remember, in high school, being in the church choir and having a lot of demanding music to sing at Christmas.  We lived in a parsonage next door to the church.  I have a distinct memory of my dad and me coming home between the "regular" Christmas Eve service and the midnight service, and him pouring some mezcal for the two of us to soothe our throats.  Normally I probably wouldn't drink mezcal straight like that, but in that moment, it was perfect.

I will say, if you like the nuances of gin and the different herb/citrus profiles, you'd be into mezcal. Unfortunately sampling all of the different kinds of agaves becomes an expensive habit, but they're all so unique.

Tobalá has kind of an oily texture with fruity notes.
Arroqueño has a Hatch green chile thing going on.
Guererro tastes a bit like cantaloupe.

And, depending on where it's made, it's not smoky at all. For example, in San Luís Potosí, they use copper stills as opposed to just burying the piña, so it never comes in contact with smoke.

I considered cross-posting this into the Liquor thread instead, but I'll keep this subtopic going:

Is tequila just one specific type of mezcal, or is there a substantive difference that makes tequila not mezcal?

Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2022, 05:06:43 PM
Also, for the purposes of this thread, ultra premium vodka is massively overrated.

I think vodka is overrated in general.  Adding such a neutral flavor seems kind of pointless to me.  And flavored vodka just seems like a product that's trying to be something other than vodka.  I'm OK with that latter part–obviously, considering I enjoy gin, which is basically just one type of flavored vodka–but I find little use for plain vodka.  (It is useful in baking, to get a flaky pie crust, but I don't bake.)

Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2022, 06:27:06 PM

Quote from: thspfc on May 31, 2022, 05:47:04 PM
Weed is more overrated than alcohol is. Not because it's that much worse, but because weed addiction is largely accepted and even glorified by society, while the obvious negative effects are ignored. The same can't be said of alcohol addiction.

I'd argue not only is weed not "much worse", it's not even close to as bad as alcohol. And it's way harder to get addicted to weed in the first place.

I'd also argue that the reason that people "glorify" weed addiction as compared to alcohol addiction is because potheads are nice and alcoholics mostly aren't.

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 31, 2022, 06:38:52 PM
In my experience, you can't even really get addicted to weed, at least not physiologically. The biggest pothead I know took a month off from smoking to clear a drug test for employment purposes. The only "symptom" he experienced was being annoyed that someone was telling him he couldn't do something he enjoyed.

Addiction takes several forms, doesn't it?  I have a friend from church who really struggles at staying off weed.  Maybe it's not a true addiction because it isn't physiological, but it's realistically an addiction nonetheless.  He's noticed an improvement in his ability to concentrate at work when he's successful at staying off weed, but it's an inner struggle for him.

I'd agree that alcohol abuse is much more detrimental to society in general.  Too many people become violent when they're drunk.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 07:30:59 PM
Cool Whip is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on May 31, 2022, 07:44:36 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 31, 2022, 06:38:52 PM
In my experience, you can't even really get addicted to weed, at least not physiologically. The biggest pothead I know took a month off from smoking to clear a drug test for employment purposes. The only "symptom" he experienced was being annoyed that someone was telling him he couldn't do something he enjoyed.

Speaking from some past personal and shared experiences, if one lives somewhere in which it is not legal, then a weed "addiction" comes from narrowing down friendships, social circles, and lifestyle choices with those who only perform illicit drugs, out of distrust for others. Rewarding oneself excessively with drugs could lead to negative gateway effects; hey, if you'd try one, you might try another. But honestly, that could also be said of any activity taken to an extreme...everyone's mileage will vary.

In short, I'm not surprised people take drugs. Each generation finds something to escape from at some point or another.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: US 89 on May 31, 2022, 07:48:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 07:30:28 PM
I think vodka is overrated in general.  Adding such a neutral flavor seems kind of pointless to me.  And flavored vodka just seems like a product that's trying to be something other than vodka.  I'm OK with that latter part–obviously, considering I enjoy gin, which is basically just one type of flavored vodka–but I find little use for plain vodka.  (It is useful in baking, to get a flaky pie crust, but I don't bake.)

Yeah, flavored vodka is overrated. I was at a friend's place a few months ago and they had whipped cream-flavored vodka. If that sounds disgusting... it was. But apparently some people swear by it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on May 31, 2022, 07:55:59 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 31, 2022, 09:49:13 AM
Achy Breaky Heart.   The song was overplayed when it first came out.

Tell me about it...I once spent time in a bar in '92 when some redneck loaded the jukebox with about $5 in credits, and every selection was Achy Breaky Heart.

Didnt take long for me to absolutely HATE that song -- Probably about $1 into the marathon.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on May 31, 2022, 08:10:10 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 31, 2022, 06:38:52 PM
In my experience, you can't even really get addicted to weed, at least not physiologically. The biggest pothead I know took a month off from smoking to clear a drug test for employment purposes. The only "symptom" he experienced was being annoyed that someone was telling him he couldn't do something he enjoyed.

I guess that goes to show effective drug testing is.

Also, addiction is not the only measure as to whether something is good or bad. Just because someone isn't addicted to murder doesn't mean murdering one person is okay.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: dlsterner on May 31, 2022, 08:25:28 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on May 31, 2022, 07:55:59 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on May 31, 2022, 09:49:13 AM
Achy Breaky Heart.   The song was overplayed when it first came out.

Tell me about it...I once spent time in a bar in '92 when some redneck loaded the jukebox with about $5 in credits, and every selection was Achy Breaky Heart.

Didnt take long for me to absolutely HATE that song -- Probably about $1 into the marathon.

I was tempted once to do that to a jukebox back when "Disco Duck" was out (and then make an exit).  I thought better of it, which may be why I'm here today.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 31, 2022, 08:55:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 07:30:59 PM
Cool Whip is overrated.
You take that back.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on May 31, 2022, 08:57:52 PM
D.A.R.E is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 09:13:15 PM
Quote from: US 89 on May 31, 2022, 07:48:23 PM
I was at a friend's place a few months ago and they had whipped cream-flavored vodka. If that sounds disgusting... it was. But apparently some people swear by it.

I've had that, actually.  When we were in Springfield (MO) for my sister-in-law's college graduation a year or two ago, she and her roommates and my mother-in-law and my wife and I played spoons for shots one evening.  (Most of us were the responsible sort, however, and stopped drinking past our limit, but it was still fun.)  And that was one of the things they had in the house.

College girls.  Not exactly known for great taste in liquor, I suppose...

Then again:  Spoons.  Not exactly know for great taste in liquor either.

Quote from: abefroman329 on May 31, 2022, 08:57:52 PM
D.A.R.E is overrated.

The first concert my wife ever attended was Def Leppard.  She was in fifth grade.  And she wore a D.A.R.E. tee-shirt.  I don't suppose she appreciated the irony at the time.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on May 31, 2022, 09:18:41 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 07:30:28 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 31, 2022, 05:06:43 PM
Also, for the purposes of this thread, ultra premium vodka is massively overrated.

I think vodka is overrated in general.  Adding such a neutral flavor seems kind of pointless to me.  And flavored vodka just seems like a product that's trying to be something other than vodka.  I'm OK with that latter part–obviously, considering I enjoy gin, which is basically just one type of flavored vodka–but I find little use for plain vodka. ...

I've only tried vodka a few times as part of a mixed drink, and likewise I've only tried gin a handful of times, but that's more than enough to know that I much prefer gin. Vodka doesn't have much taste at all, while gin has a taste that I find quite pleasant - at least compared to other types of alcohol, which I've found much too strong to enjoy (scotch), or just not my taste (beer).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on May 31, 2022, 09:35:30 PM
Quote from: US 89 on May 31, 2022, 07:48:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 07:30:28 PM
I think vodka is overrated in general.  Adding such a neutral flavor seems kind of pointless to me.  And flavored vodka just seems like a product that's trying to be something other than vodka.  I'm OK with that latter part–obviously, considering I enjoy gin, which is basically just one type of flavored vodka–but I find little use for plain vodka.  (It is useful in baking, to get a flaky pie crust, but I don't bake.)

Yeah, flavored vodka is overrated. I was at a friend's place a few months ago and they had whipped cream-flavored vodka. If that sounds disgusting... it was. But apparently some people swear by it.

There's a few flavored vodkas that mix well with certain drinks (berry vodkas with berry drinks, for example).  Overall though, the only thing I find useful for many flavored vodkas are they mix well for jello shots or pudding shots.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 31, 2022, 10:20:25 PM
HOT/HOV lanes are overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on May 31, 2022, 11:35:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 07:30:28 PM
Addiction takes several forms, doesn't it?  I have a friend from church who really struggles at staying off weed.  Maybe it's not a true addiction because it isn't physiological, but it's realistically an addiction nonetheless.  He's noticed an improvement in his ability to concentrate at work when he's successful at staying off weed, but it's an inner struggle for him.

That's why I went back to edit my post to specify that it's rarely a physiological addiction, in my experience, so there's little risk of actual withdrawal symptoms. Of course, behavioral addictions exist too, and those can center on weed. But a behavioral addiction can also easily center on gambling, porn, video games, food, work, church, Internet forums, or any other aspect of life that gives someone pleasure. So it's not exactly fair to call it a "weed addiction" any more that it is a behavioral addiction in general.

Quote from: JoePCool14 on May 31, 2022, 08:10:10 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 31, 2022, 06:38:52 PM
In my experience, you can't even really get addicted to weed, at least not physiologically. The biggest pothead I know took a month off from smoking to clear a drug test for employment purposes. The only "symptom" he experienced was being annoyed that someone was telling him he couldn't do something he enjoyed.

I guess that goes to show effective drug testing is.

And as soon as they said he passed, he headed home, went inside the house, and lit up a joint.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Avalanchez71 on May 31, 2022, 11:45:16 PM
Interstates are so overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on June 01, 2022, 12:05:30 AM
Ratings are overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 01, 2022, 09:01:11 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 31, 2022, 11:35:52 PM
Of course, behavioral addictions exist too, and those can center on ... Internet forums

hey
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on June 01, 2022, 09:10:27 AM
Quote from: kkt on June 01, 2022, 12:05:30 AM
Ratings are overrated.


Lot of truth to this one.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 01, 2022, 11:30:11 AM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:53:25 PM
9. Premarital sex.

Or, at least, pre-engagement sex. Again, sorry if I'm sounding like your parents, but... fuck fucking. :biggrin: Hard to pass the opportunity to say that. I'd rather sit out on a fleeting sense of temporary superficial primordial pleasure than to risk exposure to STDs like syphilis and AIDS, causing unplanned pregnancies, and ruining other people's lives. It's so upsetting how the age at which people have been getting into intimate relationships has been getting lower and lower over the years.

Over the last several days, I've thought about this one, considering how many people disagreed with you, but I forgot to say this earlier:

I've been trying to think of a single benefit to my life that came from having pre-marital sex, that wouldn't otherwise have come to me if I had waited until marriage.  And I can't think of a single one.  I could list several detriments to my life that came because of it, but no benefits.

So yes, I agree that pre-marital sex is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on June 01, 2022, 12:12:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 01, 2022, 11:30:11 AM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 12:53:25 PM
9. Premarital sex.

Or, at least, pre-engagement sex. Again, sorry if I'm sounding like your parents, but... fuck fucking. :biggrin: Hard to pass the opportunity to say that. I'd rather sit out on a fleeting sense of temporary superficial primordial pleasure than to risk exposure to STDs like syphilis and AIDS, causing unplanned pregnancies, and ruining other people's lives. It's so upsetting how the age at which people have been getting into intimate relationships has been getting lower and lower over the years.

Over the last several days, I've thought about this one, considering how many people disagreed with you, but I forgot to say this earlier:

I've been trying to think of a single benefit to my life that came from having pre-marital sex, that wouldn't otherwise have come to me if I had waited until marriage.  And I can't think of a single one.  I could list several detriments to my life that came because of it, but no benefits.

So yes, I agree that pre-marital sex is overrated.

For me, a single benefit to my life that came from having pre-marital sex is... more sex.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Ted$8roadFan on June 01, 2022, 12:40:56 PM
Newspaper/magazine restaurant reviews.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on June 01, 2022, 12:55:53 PM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on June 01, 2022, 12:40:56 PM
Newspaper/magazine restaurant reviews.

You can add Trip Advisor and Yelp to your list.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on June 01, 2022, 01:16:05 PM
Shake Shack.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on June 01, 2022, 02:40:29 PM
I've noted that caffeine has absolutely no effect on me. My drink of choice is Diet Coke. I don't drink coffee, at all. And I certainly don't miss the social aspects of "going out for a cup of coffee" that so many seem to indulge in. But it makes no difference to me if I drink gray-label Diet Coke with caffeine, or gold-label Caffeine-Free Diet Coke. You could pour one of them out in a glass and serve to me and I wouldn't know the difference. I wouldn't be any more sleepy if I drank CF Diet Coke vs. regular.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: XamotCGC on June 01, 2022, 03:39:24 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 01, 2022, 02:40:29 PM
I've noted that caffeine has absolutely no effect on me. My drink of choice is Diet Coke. I don't drink coffee, at all. And I certainly don't miss the social aspects of "going out for a cup of coffee" that so many seem to indulge in. But it makes no difference to me if I drink gray-label Diet Coke with caffeine, or gold-label Caffeine-Free Diet Coke. You could pour one of them out in a glass and serve to me and I wouldn't know the difference. I wouldn't be any more sleepy if I drank CF Diet Coke vs. regular.

Have you ever tried an energy drink like red bull?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 01, 2022, 05:41:00 PM
The amount of caffeine in a Coke doesn't affect me either.  The amount of caffeine in a strong cup of coffee does, however.  And I've never even tried an energy drink.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on June 01, 2022, 05:42:34 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 07:30:59 PM
Cool Whip is overrated.

Cool Hwhip.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on June 01, 2022, 05:43:57 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 01, 2022, 05:42:34 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 07:30:59 PM
Cool Whip is overrated.

Cool Hwhip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZmqJQ-nc_s
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on June 01, 2022, 05:45:24 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 01, 2022, 05:43:57 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 01, 2022, 05:42:34 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 31, 2022, 07:30:59 PM
Cool Whip is overrated.

Cool Hwhip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZmqJQ-nc_s

That's not the sitcom that came to mind first for me, I tell you hwat.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on June 02, 2022, 01:55:17 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on June 01, 2022, 03:39:24 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 01, 2022, 02:40:29 PM
I've noted that caffeine has absolutely no effect on me. My drink of choice is Diet Coke. I don't drink coffee, at all. And I certainly don't miss the social aspects of "going out for a cup of coffee" that so many seem to indulge in. But it makes no difference to me if I drink gray-label Diet Coke with caffeine, or gold-label Caffeine-Free Diet Coke. You could pour one of them out in a glass and serve to me and I wouldn't know the difference. I wouldn't be any more sleepy if I drank CF Diet Coke vs. regular.

Have you ever tried an energy drink like red bull?

No, because I haven't really felt the need for one. Plus, I don't know what they taste like, and I'm one of those who's set in his ways and doesn't really like to taste something new.

Closest I came was many years ago when Mountain Dew was marketing some sort of hybrid soft drink-energy drink beverage. I bought one because it was at a low introductory price, and I was thirsty. I didn't like the way it tasted so I poured most of it out.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 02, 2022, 02:20:03 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 02, 2022, 01:55:17 PM
I'm one of those who's set in his ways and doesn't really like to taste something new.

From what I've read on this forum, the above statement is so true that you ought to make it part of your forum sig.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 02, 2022, 02:28:35 PM
"Juneteenth" is overrated.  Not the holiday, but the name.  It manages to come off as cute rather than serious, and it somehow manages to obscure both the holiday's meaning and its date.

The name is supposed to be a portmanteau of June and nineteenth, except June 13th through 18th could just as easily be the date referred to–such that I can never remember the holiday's exact date, even though it's supposedly right there in its name.

Literally all of its other, secondary names are better:  Emancipation Day, Freedom Day, Jubilee Day, Black Independence Day.  None of them specifies the date, but at least they indicate what the holiday is commemorating.

And yet so many people seem to love it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on June 02, 2022, 04:30:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 02, 2022, 02:28:35 PM
"Juneteenth" is overrated.  Not the holiday, but the name.  It manages to come off as cute rather than serious, and it somehow manages to obscure both the holiday's meaning and its date.

The name is supposed to be a portmanteau of June and nineteenth, except June 13th through 18th could just as easily be the date referred to–such that I can never remember the holiday's exact date, even though it's supposedly right there in its name.

Literally all of its other, secondary names are better:  Emancipation Day, Freedom Day, Jubilee Day, Black Independence Day.  None of them specifies the date, but at least they indicate what the holiday is commemorating.

And yet so many people seem to love it.

What.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 02, 2022, 04:35:14 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 02, 2022, 04:30:49 PM
What.

"Juneteenth" is overrated.  Not the holiday, but the name.  It manages to come off as cute rather than serious, and it somehow manages to obscure both the holiday's meaning and its date.

The name is supposed to be a portmanteau of June and nineteenth, except June 13th through 18th could just as easily be the date referred to–such that I can never remember the holiday's exact date, even though it's supposedly right there in its name.

Literally all of its other, secondary names are better:  Emancipation Day, Freedom Day, Jubilee Day, Black Independence Day.  None of them specifies the date, but at least they indicate what the holiday is commemorating.

And yet so many people seem to love it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on June 02, 2022, 04:37:54 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 02, 2022, 04:35:14 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 02, 2022, 04:30:49 PM
What.

"Juneteenth" is overrated.  Not the holiday, but the name.  It manages to come off as cute rather than serious, and it somehow manages to obscure both the holiday's meaning and its date.

The name is supposed to be a portmanteau of June and nineteenth, except June 13th through 18th could just as easily be the date referred to–such that I can never remember the holiday's exact date, even though it's supposedly right there in its name.

Literally all of its other, secondary names are better:  Emancipation Day, Freedom Day, Jubilee Day, Black Independence Day.  None of them specifies the date, but at least they indicate what the holiday is commemorating.

And yet so many people seem to love it.
What.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on June 02, 2022, 04:38:20 PM
I like Juneteenth since I get the day off for good reason.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on June 02, 2022, 04:53:24 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 02, 2022, 04:37:54 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 02, 2022, 04:35:14 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 02, 2022, 04:30:49 PM
What.

"Juneteenth" is overrated.  Not the holiday, but the name.  It manages to come off as cute rather than serious, and it somehow manages to obscure both the holiday's meaning and its date.

The name is supposed to be a portmanteau of June and nineteenth, except June 13th through 18th could just as easily be the date referred to–such that I can never remember the holiday's exact date, even though it's supposedly right there in its name.

Literally all of its other, secondary names are better:  Emancipation Day, Freedom Day, Jubilee Day, Black Independence Day.  None of them specifies the date, but at least they indicate what the holiday is commemorating.

And yet so many people seem to love it.
What.

I don't disagree. The name seems a bit... contrived. Happy to celebrate it (as much as I celebrate any holiday other than Christmas or Thanksgiving); wish it were called something else.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on June 02, 2022, 04:54:23 PM
It's been called Juneteenth since way before white people even knew what it was.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on June 02, 2022, 05:02:26 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 02, 2022, 04:54:23 PM
It's been called Juneteenth since way before white people even knew what it was.

This I know (and I'll fall on the sword and say I'd never heard of it before 20202), but it doesn't make the name less awkward.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 02, 2022, 05:18:46 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 02, 2022, 04:38:20 PM
I like Juneteenth since I get the day off for good reason.

Didn't say the holiday was overrated.
Said the name was overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on June 02, 2022, 05:26:41 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 02, 2022, 01:55:17 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on June 01, 2022, 03:39:24 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 01, 2022, 02:40:29 PM
I've noted that caffeine has absolutely no effect on me. My drink of choice is Diet Coke. I don't drink coffee, at all. And I certainly don't miss the social aspects of "going out for a cup of coffee" that so many seem to indulge in. But it makes no difference to me if I drink gray-label Diet Coke with caffeine, or gold-label Caffeine-Free Diet Coke. You could pour one of them out in a glass and serve to me and I wouldn't know the difference. I wouldn't be any more sleepy if I drank CF Diet Coke vs. regular.

Have you ever tried an energy drink like red bull?

No, because I haven't really felt the need for one. Plus, I don't know what they taste like, and I'm one of those who's set in his ways and doesn't really like to taste something new.

Yes, but Diet Coke only has a small fraction of the caffeine of a cup of coffee or an energy drink. Coke/Diet Coke don't have a significant effect on me either, but coffee definitely does - it makes me a jittery and goes right through my system, resulting in sudden trip(s) to the bathroom. With that said, it's not necessarily accurate to say caffeine has no effect on you unless that's also the case for coffee and energy drinks - and I'd be pretty surprised if that was the case.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on June 02, 2022, 05:27:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 02, 2022, 02:28:35 PM
"Juneteenth" is overrated.  Not the holiday, but the name.  It manages to come off as cute rather than serious, and it somehow manages to obscure both the holiday's meaning and its date.

The name is supposed to be a portmanteau of June and nineteenth, except June 13th through 18th could just as easily be the date referred to–such that I can never remember the holiday's exact date, even though it's supposedly right there in its name.

Literally all of its other, secondary names are better:  Emancipation Day, Freedom Day, Jubilee Day, Black Independence Day.  None of them specifies the date, but at least they indicate what the holiday is commemorating.

And yet so many people seem to love it.

Agreed.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Ted$8roadFan on June 02, 2022, 05:56:20 PM
"˜Working members of the Royal Family"
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on June 02, 2022, 06:06:45 PM
The royal family is overrated. So far as I can tell, they're just government-subsidized celebrities.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on June 02, 2022, 06:53:13 PM
Not liking the name "Juneteenth" is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 02, 2022, 06:54:21 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 02, 2022, 06:06:45 PM
The royal family is overrated. So far as I can tell, they're just government-subsidized celebrities.

My wife and I recently finished watching all the seasons of The Crown.  The most recent season has been delayed by a lot of flak from the royal family.  Anyway, that series has simultaneously made me appreciate both the anachronism of the royal family and also its value.

It's difficult for me to put into words, but perhaps its primary function is to provide a head of state that isn't embroiled in the actual politics of government.  It's difficult for me, as an American, to imagine someone like a President who isn't handcuffed to his own political party–who has influence over the President, no matter who is in office or what party he's affiliated with, and who can address the nation with a nationalism that transcends the political wrestling matches of the government.  Perhaps its disconnection from the government is actually part and parcel of its value.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on June 02, 2022, 07:32:40 PM
That doesn't really feel very sensible to me, though.

I mean, I get the importance of having A Leader™. Volodymyr Zelensky's refusal to leave Kyiv when it was under attack a few months ago, and his famous quote of "I don't need a ride, I need ammunition", is widely cited as having been a turning point in establishing how Ukraine and its government were going to respond to the war. But Zelensky's title is President. Before the war he was subject to politics like anyone else with that title, and was seen as being a kind of mediocre president. But he rose to the occasion of being a wartime leader, over and above politics. He's now highly respected, and even kind of serves as an avatar of the Ukrainian people (I've seen a lot of street art of his face being painted on the side of buildings in European cities outside of Ukraine, for instance). I would expect that now, if he were to tell the Verkhovna Rada to jump, they would unanimously vote to ask him how high.

So I guess the question is if it makes sense to have a split system where you have someone serving that symbolic leadership role but don't actually give them the power to do anything. I personally don't think that makes a whole lot of sense, because I feel like respect is earned by deeds, and not by someone saying "This Is The Guy You Respect". And monarchs are basically the epitome of "Respect Me Cause I Said So". Even if you wanted to have an emotional leader that didn't actually have any real power to do anything, I feel like there would be far better ways of going about it than having it be a hereditary system with all of the expense of maintaining palaces and what not. Maybe you could desig

Ultimately, if the British people are cool with that, you know, more power to them, I guess. I don't have to understand or agree with it because it's not my country. But I am a little weirded out by Americans obsessing over it too. I've seen cars driving around Norman with stickers of the Queen on them. That's sort of odd to me. And I realize that this post contains an entire paragraph that basically amounts to "the president of Ukraine is a pretty cool guy", but, like, I'm also not following every detail about what his wife and children are doing because I don't care that much, and they're really not all that important as to what's going on in Ukraine anyway.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on June 02, 2022, 07:39:38 PM
A number of Commonwealth countries still have the British Royal Family as ceremonial heads of state, but there has been an increasing interest in removing that ceremonial presence in some former British colonies, such as Barbados completing the process at the beginning of this year.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kurumi on June 02, 2022, 08:11:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 02, 2022, 06:06:45 PM
The royal family is overrated. So far as I can tell, they're just government-subsidized celebrities.

Here are the Queen Haters, from an old SCTV episode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJU5x67Sz1o
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on June 02, 2022, 08:36:41 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 02, 2022, 07:32:40 PMBefore the war he was subject to politics like anyone else with that title, and was seen as being a kind of mediocre president. But he rose to the occasion of being a wartime leader, over and above politics. He's now highly respected
Like W.  Or Trump, if he'd bothered to take COVID seriously.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: vdeane on June 02, 2022, 08:56:27 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 02, 2022, 07:32:40 PM
That doesn't really feel very sensible to me, though.

I mean, I get the importance of having A Leader™. Volodymyr Zelensky's refusal to leave Kyiv when it was under attack a few months ago, and his famous quote of "I don't need a ride, I need ammunition", is widely cited as having been a turning point in establishing how Ukraine and its government were going to respond to the war. But Zelensky's title is President. Before the war he was subject to politics like anyone else with that title, and was seen as being a kind of mediocre president. But he rose to the occasion of being a wartime leader, over and above politics. He's now highly respected, and even kind of serves as an avatar of the Ukrainian people (I've seen a lot of street art of his face being painted on the side of buildings in European cities outside of Ukraine, for instance). I would expect that now, if he were to tell the Verkhovna Rada to jump, they would unanimously vote to ask him how high.

So I guess the question is if it makes sense to have a split system where you have someone serving that symbolic leadership role but don't actually give them the power to do anything. I personally don't think that makes a whole lot of sense, because I feel like respect is earned by deeds, and not by someone saying "This Is The Guy You Respect". And monarchs are basically the epitome of "Respect Me Cause I Said So". Even if you wanted to have an emotional leader that didn't actually have any real power to do anything, I feel like there would be far better ways of going about it than having it be a hereditary system with all of the expense of maintaining palaces and what not. Maybe you could desig

Ultimately, if the British people are cool with that, you know, more power to them, I guess. I don't have to understand or agree with it because it's not my country. But I am a little weirded out by Americans obsessing over it too. I've seen cars driving around Norman with stickers of the Queen on them. That's sort of odd to me. And I realize that this post contains an entire paragraph that basically amounts to "the president of Ukraine is a pretty cool guy", but, like, I'm also not following every detail about what his wife and children are doing because I don't care that much, and they're really not all that important as to what's going on in Ukraine anyway.
The way it was described in my AP Government and Politics textbook is that it enables people to vehemently disagree with the government while still being patriotic, because they can then follow whatever they said with "and God save the Queen".  Meanwhile in the US, people who criticize the country are often called "un-American" (often by people who themselves criticize some other part of the country).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on June 02, 2022, 09:14:25 PM
Thanks to the First Amendment, I think complaining about the government is possibly the most American thing someone could possibly do.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 02, 2022, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 02, 2022, 07:32:40 PM
So I guess the question is if it makes sense to have a split system where you have someone serving that symbolic leadership role but don't actually give them the power to do anything.

Actually, the British monarch has the legal authority to remove the Prime Minister from office.  That, you must admit, is quite a bit of power.  However, as I mentioned, this is held in balance by fact that the monarchy's importance lies at least partly in not becoming 'involved'.

Every Prime Minister who takes office knows that his or her position remains at the whim of the monarch–no matter what party he or she is a member of.  And every Prime Minister who takes office also knows that the monarch will treat him or her in a fair and politically uncharged way.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on June 03, 2022, 01:32:14 AM
Quote from: kphoger on June 02, 2022, 10:10:33 PMActually, the British monarch has the legal authority to remove the Prime Minister from office.  That, you must admit, is quite a bit of power.

This is something Gough Whitlam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gough_Whitlam) came to understand only too well.  (As the Australian PM, he was removed by the Governor-General rather than the Queen directly, but it was still exercise of the monarch's reserve powers.)

Quote from: kphoger on June 02, 2022, 10:10:33 PMHowever, as I mentioned, this is held in balance by fact that the monarchy's importance lies at least partly in not becoming 'involved'.

Yes.  The present Queen has been successful in large part because of her carefully circumspect approach to party politics.  I have long speculated that she has continued to work well into her nineties, rather than abdicating outright or moving into some form of phased retirement, because her son and heir is not as cautious and has a long history of making stinks about urban development issues, which is all the more fraught in a country like Britain where much of the value of developed land effectively results from planning gain.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on June 03, 2022, 01:43:47 AM
Raising Cane's.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on June 03, 2022, 02:27:25 AM
Quote from: kphoger on June 02, 2022, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 02, 2022, 07:32:40 PM
So I guess the question is if it makes sense to have a split system where you have someone serving that symbolic leadership role but don't actually give them the power to do anything.

Actually, the British monarch has the legal authority to remove the Prime Minister from office.  That, you must admit, is quite a bit of power.  However, as I mentioned, this is held in balance by fact that the monarchy's importance lies at least partly in not becoming 'involved'.

I have the power to delete Alex's account. I can go to the admin panel, select his account, and click the delete button, and it's gone. But of course if I did that, I would expect that one of the other admins would desysop me as soon as it was discovered I did that, and I may not be welcome on this forum at all afterward.

So do I really have the power to delete Alex's account?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on June 03, 2022, 06:47:29 AM
Wait, who can "desysop" the Queen?

I also saw a decent portion of The Crown.  Just solidified my perception that the Royal Family is a waste of money, whether or not their wealth is publicly subsidized.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on June 03, 2022, 10:06:36 AM
Quote from: kphoger on June 02, 2022, 05:18:46 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 02, 2022, 04:38:20 PM
I like Juneteenth since I get the day off for good reason.

Didn't say the holiday was overrated.
Said the name was overrated.

Well, I guess they had to come up with something shorter than "Word finally reached Texas about something that happened weeks ago elsewhere."

We wouldn't be celebrating "Juneteenth" on June 19 if today's communications technology had existed back then.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on June 03, 2022, 10:21:32 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 03, 2022, 02:27:25 AM
Quote from: kphoger on June 02, 2022, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 02, 2022, 07:32:40 PM
So I guess the question is if it makes sense to have a split system where you have someone serving that symbolic leadership role but don't actually give them the power to do anything.

Actually, the British monarch has the legal authority to remove the Prime Minister from office.  That, you must admit, is quite a bit of power.  However, as I mentioned, this is held in balance by fact that the monarchy's importance lies at least partly in not becoming 'involved'.

I have the power to delete Alex's account. I can go to the admin panel, select his account, and click the delete button, and it's gone. But of course if I did that, I would expect that one of the other admins would desysop me as soon as it was discovered I did that, and I may not be welcome on this forum at all afterward.

So do I really have the power to delete Alex's account?
I mean, yes, you do really have the power to delete Alex's account.  You just don't have the ability to delete Alex's account without consequences.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on June 03, 2022, 10:31:58 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 03, 2022, 01:32:14 AM
.... The present Queen has been successful in large part because of her carefully circumspect approach to party politics.  I have long speculated that she has continued to work well into her nineties, rather than abdicating outright or moving into some form of phased retirement, because her son and heir is not as cautious and has a long history of making stinks about urban development issues, which is all the more fraught in a country like Britain where much of the value of developed land effectively results from planning gain.

All indications are that the Queen would never abdicate for various reasons, including her memory of her uncle's abdication and the problems that caused at the time, her sense of duty, and the potential ramifications for succession. Succession in the UK is governed by statute. Parliament had to pass a bill, and King Edward VIII had to give it Royal Assent, in order to effectuate his abdication. One condition in his case was that he had to renounce any claim to the Crown for both himself and any of his offspring (a point that became moot when he never had any children). My gut tells me the latter condition would not be required if the Queen were to abdicate because her children are all legitimate offspring of a marriage recognized by the Church of England, whereas the issue in Edward VIII's case was that at the time the Church of England regarded a divorced person's remarriage as adulterous such that any offspring would have been illegitimate (the former Edward VIII was Wallis Simpson's third husband; both prior marriages ended in divorce). Even setting that issue aside, abdication in the United Kingdom is a much more difficult process than it is in some other countries where older monarchs have abdicated in favor of the heir apparent.

It's interesting, though. Apparently there either is, or used to be, a custom that a soothsayer was present at or shortly after a royal birth. The soothsayer present when Prince Charles was born said he would never become king. That's obviously still possible. Not just because of his age and his mother's longevity, either; by many accounts, he has expressed interest in becoming Greek Orthodox (his father's original faith) and believes the monarch should be "Defender of the Faiths," as in the right to practice any religion one wishes, rather than "Defender of the Faith" as in the Church of England. But under current British law, because the monarch is the head of the Church of England, he would apparently disqualify himself if he converted.

With all that said, I am certain you're correct that some of Charles's more indelicate comments (the one about the National Gallery expansion being a "monstrous carbuncle on the face of a much loved and elegant friend" comes to mind) are a significant factor in the Queen's thought process.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on June 03, 2022, 10:40:08 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 02, 2022, 04:54:23 PM
It's been called Juneteenth since way before white people even knew what it was.
Doesn't mean it's a good name.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on June 03, 2022, 11:08:05 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 03, 2022, 10:40:08 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 02, 2022, 04:54:23 PM
It's been called Juneteenth since way before white people even knew what it was.
Doesn't mean it's a good name.
Yeah, but it's not like it was concocted by a Hallmark algorithm last week or something.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 03, 2022, 11:14:20 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 03, 2022, 11:08:05 AM

Quote from: thspfc on June 03, 2022, 10:40:08 AM

Quote from: abefroman329 on June 02, 2022, 04:54:23 PM
It's been called Juneteenth since way before white people even knew what it was.

Doesn't mean it's a good name.

Yeah, but it's not like it was concocted by a Hallmark algorithm last week or something.

Did I imply that?  Sorry if I did.  I didn't mean to imply that only White people could have come up with such a bad name for a holiday.  Vapidity is a multiracial phenomenon.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on June 03, 2022, 11:58:21 AM
Quote from: kphoger on June 03, 2022, 11:14:20 AM
Did I imply that?  Sorry if I did.  I didn't mean to imply that only White people could have come up with such a bad name for a holiday.  Vapidity is a multiracial phenomenon.

What.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: vdeane on June 03, 2022, 12:58:49 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 03, 2022, 10:31:58 AM
My gut tells me the latter condition would not be required if the Queen were to abdicate because her children are all legitimate offspring of a marriage recognized by the Church of England, whereas the issue in Edward VIII's case was that at the time the Church of England regarded a divorced person's remarriage as adulterous such that any offspring would have been illegitimate (the former Edward VIII was Wallis Simpson's third husband; both prior marriages ended in divorce).
That's ironic, considering that England split from the Roman Catholic Church so that Henry VIII could get a divorce and remarry in the hope of getting a male heir.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 03, 2022, 01:26:24 PM
Quote from: vdeane on June 03, 2022, 12:58:49 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 03, 2022, 10:31:58 AM
My gut tells me the latter condition would not be required if the Queen were to abdicate because her children are all legitimate offspring of a marriage recognized by the Church of England, whereas the issue in Edward VIII's case was that at the time the Church of England regarded a divorced person's remarriage as adulterous such that any offspring would have been illegitimate (the former Edward VIII was Wallis Simpson's third husband; both prior marriages ended in divorce).

That's ironic, considering that England split from the Roman Catholic Church so that Henry VIII could get a divorce and remarry in the hope of getting a male heir.

Ah, but Henry and Catherine's marriage was technically annulled, meaning they weren't technically divorced.

– convinced nobody.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on June 03, 2022, 04:33:39 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 03, 2022, 06:47:29 AM
Wait, who can "desysop" the Queen?

The British people. I've seen it theorized that the only real thing that could incentivize the British people to overcome inertia and end the monarchy would be if the sovereign started regularly using their reserve powers (especially if it was done in a way that was counter to public opinion).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on June 03, 2022, 07:27:24 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 03, 2022, 02:27:25 AM
Quote from: kphoger on June 02, 2022, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 02, 2022, 07:32:40 PM
So I guess the question is if it makes sense to have a split system where you have someone serving that symbolic leadership role but don't actually give them the power to do anything.

Actually, the British monarch has the legal authority to remove the Prime Minister from office.  That, you must admit, is quite a bit of power.  However, as I mentioned, this is held in balance by fact that the monarchy's importance lies at least partly in not becoming 'involved'.

I have the power to delete Alex's account. I can go to the admin panel, select his account, and click the delete button, and it's gone. But of course if I did that, I would expect that one of the other admins would desysop me as soon as it was discovered I did that, and I may not be welcome on this forum at all afterward.

So do I really have the power to delete Alex's account?

Well put.  The monarch's power to dismiss a prime minister can only be used if there's an awfully good reason.  For instance, if the PM would not resign when the other party just won a general election.  Or severely overstepping their powers.  The monarch knows they'd face all kinds of grief if they ever did it, so they'd only do it in an extreme situation.  After all, if the PM is commanding a majority in Parliament, they could execute the monarch or even disolve the monarchy...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on June 03, 2022, 08:02:12 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 03, 2022, 06:47:29 AM
Wait, who can "desysop" the Queen?

I also saw a decent portion of The Crown.  Just solidified my perception that the Royal Family is a waste of money, whether or not their wealth is publicly subsidized.

As you watch The Crown, keep in mind that it's a dramatisation.  Sometimes it's closely based on real events and real things people said... and other times it's less closely based.

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 03, 2022, 10:31:58 AM
All indications are that the Queen would never abdicate for various reasons, including her memory of her uncle's abdication and the problems that caused at the time, her sense of duty, and the potential ramifications for succession.

Yes, I'd be very surprised if the Queen abdicated.  Yes, it's duty for her, and she is honoring the oath she took at 21 to serve for her whole life.
There are options other than abdication for a lighter load:  She is already gradually delegating more duties to Charles and other royals.  She could ask for a regent to be appointed (who would probably also be Charles).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on June 03, 2022, 08:15:41 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 03, 2022, 04:33:39 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 03, 2022, 06:47:29 AM
Wait, who can "desysop" the Queen?

The British people. I've seen it theorized that the only real thing that could incentivize the British people to overcome inertia and end the monarchy would be if the sovereign started regularly using their reserve powers (especially if it was done in a way that was counter to public opinion).
Pfft.  Seems only possible on paper nowadays.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bulldog1979 on June 03, 2022, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 03, 2022, 08:02:12 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 03, 2022, 06:47:29 AM
Wait, who can "desysop" the Queen?

I also saw a decent portion of The Crown.  Just solidified my perception that the Royal Family is a waste of money, whether or not their wealth is publicly subsidized.

As you watch The Crown, keep in mind that it's a dramatisation.  Sometimes it's closely based on real events and real things people said... and other times it's less closely based.

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 03, 2022, 10:31:58 AM
All indications are that the Queen would never abdicate for various reasons, including her memory of her uncle's abdication and the problems that caused at the time, her sense of duty, and the potential ramifications for succession.

Yes, I'd be very surprised if the Queen abdicated.  Yes, it's duty for her, and she is honoring the oath she took at 21 to serve for her whole life.
There are options other than abdication for a lighter load:  She is already gradually delegating more duties to Charles and other royals.  She could ask for a regent to be appointed (who would probably also be Charles).


HM The Queen will not abdicate. She famously stated on her 21st birthday while on tour in South Africa: "I declare before you all that my whole life whether it be long or short shall be devoted to your service and the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong." She will empower Counsellors of State to handle the most important tasks as needed, as she did when The Prince of Wales and The Duke of Cambridge opened Parliament in her stead this year, for example. Should her health completely fail her, we may see a regency. Until then, she'll continue to process her red boxes every day, receive the credentials of ambassadors (by Zoom, if necessary) and all the other various less public duties. She will continue to "advise, consent and warn" the Government of the day. Otherwise, they will only take the crown from her head (figuratively) to place it on her coffin (literally).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bulldog1979 on June 03, 2022, 11:33:14 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 03, 2022, 06:47:29 AM
Wait, who can "desysop" the Queen?

I also saw a decent portion of The Crown.  Just solidified my perception that the Royal Family is a waste of money, whether or not their wealth is publicly subsidized.

One misconception is that the Royal Family is publicly subsidized. Rather The Crown Estate, owned by the Sovereign in an official capacity supports the Royal Family. CGP Grey (https://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/the-true-cost-of-the-royal-family-explained.html) explained the situation well in a video. In short, the Royal Family pays for itself and part of the government.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on June 04, 2022, 12:19:00 AM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on June 03, 2022, 11:33:14 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 03, 2022, 06:47:29 AM
Wait, who can "desysop" the Queen?

I also saw a decent portion of The Crown.  Just solidified my perception that the Royal Family is a waste of money, whether or not their wealth is publicly subsidized.

One misconception is that the Royal Family is publicly subsidized. Rather The Crown Estate, owned by the Sovereign in an official capacity supports the Royal Family. CGP Grey (https://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/the-true-cost-of-the-royal-family-explained.html) explained the situation well in a video. In short, the Royal Family pays for itself and part of the government.
From where did the wealth originate...?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: US 89 on June 04, 2022, 01:23:16 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 04, 2022, 12:19:00 AM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on June 03, 2022, 11:33:14 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 03, 2022, 06:47:29 AM
Wait, who can "desysop" the Queen?

I also saw a decent portion of The Crown.  Just solidified my perception that the Royal Family is a waste of money, whether or not their wealth is publicly subsidized.

One misconception is that the Royal Family is publicly subsidized. Rather The Crown Estate, owned by the Sovereign in an official capacity supports the Royal Family. CGP Grey (https://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/the-true-cost-of-the-royal-family-explained.html) explained the situation well in a video. In short, the Royal Family pays for itself and part of the government.
From where did the wealth originate...?

Their land and the tourism they generate.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on June 04, 2022, 01:58:59 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 04, 2022, 12:19:00 AM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on June 03, 2022, 11:33:14 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 03, 2022, 06:47:29 AM
Wait, who can "desysop" the Queen?

I also saw a decent portion of The Crown.  Just solidified my perception that the Royal Family is a waste of money, whether or not their wealth is publicly subsidized.

One misconception is that the Royal Family is publicly subsidized. Rather The Crown Estate, owned by the Sovereign in an official capacity supports the Royal Family. CGP Grey (https://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/the-true-cost-of-the-royal-family-explained.html) explained the situation well in a video. In short, the Royal Family pays for itself and part of the government.
From where did the wealth originate...?

Land ownership back to medieval times, often accruing to the crown through inheritance.  Land produces income and the income produces investment capital, which in turn produces more money.  Just like many wealthy families.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on June 04, 2022, 11:00:24 AM
Quote from: kkt on June 04, 2022, 01:58:59 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 04, 2022, 12:19:00 AM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on June 03, 2022, 11:33:14 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 03, 2022, 06:47:29 AM
Wait, who can "desysop" the Queen?

I also saw a decent portion of The Crown.  Just solidified my perception that the Royal Family is a waste of money, whether or not their wealth is publicly subsidized.

One misconception is that the Royal Family is publicly subsidized. Rather The Crown Estate, owned by the Sovereign in an official capacity supports the Royal Family. CGP Grey (https://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/the-true-cost-of-the-royal-family-explained.html) explained the situation well in a video. In short, the Royal Family pays for itself and part of the government.
From where did the wealth originate...?

Land ownership back to medieval times, often accruing to the crown through inheritance.  Land produces income and the income produces investment capital, which in turn produces more money.  Just like many wealthy families.
And how did they acquire the land?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on June 05, 2022, 02:04:17 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 04, 2022, 11:00:24 AM
Quote from: kkt on June 04, 2022, 01:58:59 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 04, 2022, 12:19:00 AM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on June 03, 2022, 11:33:14 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 03, 2022, 06:47:29 AM
Wait, who can "desysop" the Queen?

I also saw a decent portion of The Crown.  Just solidified my perception that the Royal Family is a waste of money, whether or not their wealth is publicly subsidized.

One misconception is that the Royal Family is publicly subsidized. Rather The Crown Estate, owned by the Sovereign in an official capacity supports the Royal Family. CGP Grey (https://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/the-true-cost-of-the-royal-family-explained.html) explained the situation well in a video. In short, the Royal Family pays for itself and part of the government.
From where did the wealth originate...?

Land ownership back to medieval times, often accruing to the crown through inheritance.  Land produces income and the income produces investment capital, which in turn produces more money.  Just like many wealthy families.
And how did they acquire the land?

"often through inheritance".  An heiress with land marries a prince.  In the course of time, the prince becomes king and eventually the king's son inherits both the prince's original land and what was added to it from the heiress.  Same thing happens with other aristocratic families.  Primogeniture tends to concentrate wealth, and nowhere more than in the royal family.  Doesn't mean there was anything nefarious going on.

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on June 05, 2022, 03:06:16 AM
Quote from: kkt on June 05, 2022, 02:04:17 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 04, 2022, 11:00:24 AM
Quote from: kkt on June 04, 2022, 01:58:59 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 04, 2022, 12:19:00 AM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on June 03, 2022, 11:33:14 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 03, 2022, 06:47:29 AM
Wait, who can "desysop" the Queen?

I also saw a decent portion of The Crown.  Just solidified my perception that the Royal Family is a waste of money, whether or not their wealth is publicly subsidized.

One misconception is that the Royal Family is publicly subsidized. Rather The Crown Estate, owned by the Sovereign in an official capacity supports the Royal Family. CGP Grey (https://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/the-true-cost-of-the-royal-family-explained.html) explained the situation well in a video. In short, the Royal Family pays for itself and part of the government.
From where did the wealth originate...?

Land ownership back to medieval times, often accruing to the crown through inheritance.  Land produces income and the income produces investment capital, which in turn produces more money.  Just like many wealthy families.
And how did they acquire the land?

"often through inheritance".  An heiress with land marries a prince.  In the course of time, the prince becomes king and eventually the king's son inherits both the prince's original land and what was added to it from the heiress.  Same thing happens with other aristocratic families.  Primogeniture tends to concentrate wealth, and nowhere more than in the royal family.  Doesn't mean there was anything nefarious going on.

And how did a heiress of sufficient stature to marry a prince get the land?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 06, 2022, 02:13:52 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 05, 2022, 03:06:16 AM
And how did a heiress of sufficient stature to marry a prince get the land?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism

So...  Your argument that the Royal Family is publicly subsidized is based on a system that hasn't existed in Britain since 1660?  That seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

That's a bit like saying BNSF workers' salaries are subsidized by American Indians because at some point the railroad stole their land and now profits from it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on June 06, 2022, 02:32:33 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 06, 2022, 02:13:52 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 05, 2022, 03:06:16 AM
And how did a heiress of sufficient stature to marry a prince get the land?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudalism

So...  Your argument that the Royal Family is publicly subsidized is based on a system that hasn't existed in Britain since 1660?  That seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

That's a bit like saying BNSF workers' salaries are subsidized by American Indians because at some point the railroad stole their land and now profits from it.
Yes, we better ignore the history altogether and focus on how the modern monarchy is a boon to the UK.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on June 06, 2022, 02:57:19 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 10:06:13 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 25, 2022, 08:02:17 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 03:53:42 PM
Clothes are overrated.

Well at the very least, spending a ton of money on "name brand" clothes that are the same or only marginally better quality is overrated.

Sorry, I should clarify.  Wearing clothes is overrated.

Honestly, we'd be fine half the year without them.

Don't know why this came back to mind, but...

I agree if you're talking about the half of the year when you're asleep and/or at home with no one else around  :-P
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 06, 2022, 02:59:41 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 06, 2022, 02:57:19 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 10:06:13 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 25, 2022, 08:02:17 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 03:53:42 PM
Clothes are overrated.

Well at the very least, spending a ton of money on "name brand" clothes that are the same or only marginally better quality is overrated.

Sorry, I should clarify.  Wearing clothes is overrated.

Honestly, we'd be fine half the year without them.

Don't know why this came back to mind, but...

I agree if you're talking about the half of the year when you're asleep and/or at home with no one else around  :-P

Clothes are okay in my book.  The unclothed form of the human body generally isn't anything worth seeing and generally overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on June 06, 2022, 03:20:31 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 06, 2022, 02:59:41 PM
The unclothed form of the human body generally isn't anything worth seeing and generally overrated.

Definitely agreed as to all public settings. I wouldn't be seen unclothed (not even usually shirtless) anywhere outside my house. I was more referring to the comfort factor at home for leisure activities and especially sleeping.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 06, 2022, 03:30:31 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 06, 2022, 02:57:19 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 10:06:13 AM

Quote from: webny99 on May 25, 2022, 08:02:17 PM

Quote from: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 03:53:42 PM
Clothes are overrated.

Well at the very least, spending a ton of money on "name brand" clothes that are the same or only marginally better quality is overrated.

Sorry, I should clarify.  Wearing clothes is overrated.

Honestly, we'd be fine half the year without them.

Don't know why this came back to mind, but...

I agree if you're talking about the half of the year when you're asleep and/or at home with no one else around  :-P

I often mow the lawn in just a pair of shorts.  What good do the shorts really do, other than cover up the parts of my body that literally everyone else in the world has?  (Well, only half of them have that one part...)

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 06, 2022, 02:59:41 PM
The unclothed form of the human body generally isn't anything worth seeing and generally overrated.

The clothed form of the human body isn't really all that much better or worse, in my opinion.  It's just a body, either way.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on June 06, 2022, 03:51:51 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 06, 2022, 03:30:31 PM
I often mow the lawn in just a pair of shorts.  What good do the shorts really do, other than cover up the parts of my body that literally everyone else in the world has?  (Well, only half of them have that one part...)

Well in a civilized society, that's a pretty important thing to do. Your neighbors might not care, but chances are some of them would.

Shorts could also provide protection from sticks or stones or other small flying objects (similar to why I was taught you should always wear shoes while mowing the lawn).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 06, 2022, 03:55:38 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 06, 2022, 03:51:51 PM
Your neighbors might not care, but chances are some of them would.

Well, of course they care.  If they didn't then I would be saying clothes are overrated, now, would I?  If nobody cares about an issue, then the issue isn't overrated.

Quote from: webny99 on June 06, 2022, 03:51:51 PM
Shorts could also provide protection from sticks or stones or other small flying objects (similar to why I was taught you should always wear shoes while mowing the lawn).

Long pants do way more to protect a person from small flying objects, but I don't wear them while mowing.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on June 06, 2022, 04:14:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 06, 2022, 03:55:38 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 06, 2022, 03:51:51 PM
Your neighbors might not care, but chances are some of them would.

Well, of course they care.  If they didn't then I would be saying clothes are overrated, now, would I?  If nobody cares about an issue, then the issue isn't overrated.

They might care about the societal expectations more so than the actual act of wearing clothing. In other words, it's possible that "society" overrates clothing more so than any one individual person does.

And I'm not entirely disagreeing that clothes are overrated, by the way. I agree in certain contexts, but lawn mowing is one of those activities that kind of depends. If your question is what good does wearing shorts do, I guess mine would be, what good does not wearing shorts do? I can't imagine that convenience or comfort factors are that big of a deal, as compared to going shirtless or barefoot, which I get.


Quote from: webny99 on June 06, 2022, 03:51:51 PM
Long pants do way more to protect a person from small flying objects, but I don't wear them while mowing.

Suffice to say, shorts still cover the basics.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 05:01:16 PM
Conforming to societal expectations is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on June 06, 2022, 07:56:25 PM
Steve Harvey is overrated...And especially HIS version of (Celebrity) Family Feud.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on June 06, 2022, 08:52:38 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 05:01:16 PM
Conforming to societal expectations is overrated.
What are "societal expectations" ?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 08:55:17 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on June 06, 2022, 07:56:25 PM
Steve Harvey is overrated...And especially HIS version of (Celebrity) Family Feud.

Better than the snorefest that was every version of Family Feud between him and the second Dawson administration.

Quote from: thspfc on June 06, 2022, 08:52:38 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 05:01:16 PM
Conforming to societal expectations is overrated.
What are "societal expectations" ?

Quote from: webny99 on June 06, 2022, 04:14:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 06, 2022, 03:55:38 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 06, 2022, 03:51:51 PM
Your neighbors might not care, but chances are some of them would.

Well, of course they care.  If they didn't then I would be saying clothes are overrated, now, would I?  If nobody cares about an issue, then the issue isn't overrated.

They might care about the societal expectations more so than the actual act of wearing clothing. In other words, it's possible that "society" overrates clothing more so than any one individual person does.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on June 06, 2022, 08:58:42 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 08:55:17 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on June 06, 2022, 07:56:25 PM
Steve Harvey is overrated...And especially HIS version of (Celebrity) Family Feud.

Better than the snorefest that was every version of Family Feud between him and the second Dawson administration.

Quote from: thspfc on June 06, 2022, 08:52:38 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 05:01:16 PM
Conforming to societal expectations is overrated.
What are "societal expectations" ?

Quote from: webny99 on June 06, 2022, 04:14:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 06, 2022, 03:55:38 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 06, 2022, 03:51:51 PM
Your neighbors might not care, but chances are some of them would.

Well, of course they care.  If they didn't then I would be saying clothes are overrated, now, would I?  If nobody cares about an issue, then the issue isn't overrated.

They might care about the societal expectations more so than the actual act of wearing clothing. In other words, it's possible that "society" overrates clothing more so than any one individual person does.
I mean, I guess so? I think the neighbors' disapproval might be more backed by how it's illegal.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 06, 2022, 08:59:50 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 06, 2022, 08:52:38 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 05:01:16 PM
Conforming to societal expectations is overrated.
What are "societal expectations" ?

2.3 kids, house, a dog and white picket fence.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 09:01:27 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 06, 2022, 08:58:42 PM
I mean, I guess so? I think the neighbors' disapproval might be more backed by how it's illegal.

Society disapproves of nudity because it's illegal, and it's illegal because society disapproves of it?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on June 06, 2022, 09:20:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 09:01:27 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 06, 2022, 08:58:42 PM
I mean, I guess so? I think the neighbors' disapproval might be more backed by how it's illegal.

Society disapproves of nudity because it's illegal, and it's illegal because society disapproves of it?
It's illegal because it causes problems. Society disapproves of a lot of things that aren't illegal.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 09:24:42 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 06, 2022, 09:20:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 09:01:27 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 06, 2022, 08:58:42 PM
I mean, I guess so? I think the neighbors' disapproval might be more backed by how it's illegal.

Society disapproves of nudity because it's illegal, and it's illegal because society disapproves of it?
It's illegal because it causes problems. Society disapproves of a lot of things that aren't illegal.

No it doesn't.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on June 06, 2022, 10:05:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 09:24:42 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 06, 2022, 09:20:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 09:01:27 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 06, 2022, 08:58:42 PM
I mean, I guess so? I think the neighbors' disapproval might be more backed by how it's illegal.

Society disapproves of nudity because it's illegal, and it's illegal because society disapproves of it?
It's illegal because it causes problems. Society disapproves of a lot of things that aren't illegal.

No it doesn't.
Wow, he got me there.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 10:33:19 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 06, 2022, 10:05:58 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 09:24:42 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 06, 2022, 09:20:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 09:01:27 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 06, 2022, 08:58:42 PM
I mean, I guess so? I think the neighbors' disapproval might be more backed by how it's illegal.

Society disapproves of nudity because it's illegal, and it's illegal because society disapproves of it?
It's illegal because it causes problems. Society disapproves of a lot of things that aren't illegal.

No it doesn't.
Wow, he got me there.

Five cents, please!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on June 06, 2022, 10:37:11 PM
FWIW, nudity is legal in Kansas except where pre-empted by local ordinance, as it is in Wichita.

I cannot remember ever having mown the lawn except in long pants and closed-toe shoes with socks.  These days I also wear a hat and a long-sleeved T-shirt.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 09:24:47 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 06, 2022, 10:37:11 PM
FWIW, nudity is legal in Kansas except where pre-empted by local ordinance, as it is in Wichita.

I cannot remember ever having mown the lawn except in long pants and closed-toe shoes with socks.  These days I also wear a hat and a long-sleeved T-shirt.

In point of fact, non-sexualized nudity is legal in most states.  Generally, state law has verbiage that only prohibits "lewd and lascivious behavior" when nude, or if it's in a situation that is "likely to cause affront or alarm".  But individual towns are likely to have more restrictive ordinances on the books, as are national parks.

For what it's worth, in the state of Arkansas, the anti-nudism law specifically states "in the presence of one (1) or more persons of the opposite sex".  This means that a bunch of guys from around the area could legally have a nudist beer & brats evening at someone's house, but, as soon someone's wife showed up, it would then become illegal.  It would be legal for her husband to be nude in her presence, but not for anyone else.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on June 07, 2022, 12:38:55 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 06, 2022, 10:37:11 PM
I cannot remember ever having mown the lawn except in long pants and closed-toe shoes with socks.  These days I also wear a hat and a long-sleeved T-shirt.

This is also what I wore when I lived somewhere with a lawn, except that I also wore protective eyewear. I've long feared getting hit by something while mowing.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 12:45:07 PM
meh

When my wife and I lived with my parents, shortly after having our first child, I once mowed their lawn barefoot.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 07, 2022, 12:59:58 PM
Risk aversion.  Almost every notable thing I've done in my life carried some of degree of risk (hence the new thread).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 01:04:51 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 07, 2022, 12:59:58 PM
Risk aversion.  Almost every notable thing I've done in my life carried some of degree of risk (hence the new thread).

That's something we really have to stress to our kids, especially our middle son:  most everything that's fun or rewarding has the potential to hurt you, so don't avoid something just because you might get hurt.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on June 07, 2022, 01:43:10 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 01:04:51 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 07, 2022, 12:59:58 PM
Risk aversion.  Almost every notable thing I've done in my life carried some of degree of risk (hence the new thread).

That's something we really have to stress to our kids, especially our middle son:  most everything that's fun or rewarding has the potential to hurt you, so don't avoid something just because you might get hurt.

Right. So mow the lawn, just take basic precautions to ensure you don't get injured. Same outcome, after all: a beautiful, manicured lawn.

I mowed three times a week to keep up with the lawn and cut down on emptying frequency. That's a lot of time exposed to potential danger.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on June 07, 2022, 02:32:46 PM
I need to start wearing a pair of jeans when I cut the grass. Both of the past two times, when I've used the weed whacker a piece of the plastic string broke off and hit me on the leg. Rather painful and left a small ugly bruise each time. Shame on me for letting it happen a second time.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 02:39:25 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 07, 2022, 02:32:46 PM
I need to start wearing a pair of jeans when I cut the grass. Both of the past two times, when I've used the weed whacker a piece of the plastic string broke off and hit me on the leg. Rather painful and left a small ugly bruise each time. Shame on me for letting it happen a second time.

Yeah, I've found that those little pieces of trimmer string are much more likely to hurt my leg than anything else.  I'd still rather not soak completely through a pair of long pants, though.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on June 07, 2022, 02:39:55 PM
I'm not a fan of personal nudity even if I'm at home and by myself. I feel more comfortable clothed, and it's not just because I'm a fat slob. The more of my flesh that is protected from potential hazards -- any cat hooman servant can attest to this -- the better I feel. Plus if I'm outside working, clothing absorbs sweat, provides me something to wipe the sweat off my face with, and keeps me from being sunburned and being bitten by insects.

When I get home from work I change into either a T-shirt and shorts, or a sweatshirt and sweatpants, depending on the season. No way would I consider running around the house otherwise.

And foot coverings are a must. Socks at a minimum, usually socks and shoes or houseshoes, sometimes the houseshoes without socks. I'm not a fan of going barefoot at all. Being stung on the bottom of the foot because I stepped on a bee in two consecutive summers just before going to an event that required a lot of walking in my youth taught me that lesson.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on June 07, 2022, 02:43:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 02:39:25 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 07, 2022, 02:32:46 PM
I need to start wearing a pair of jeans when I cut the grass. Both of the past two times, when I've used the weed whacker a piece of the plastic string broke off and hit me on the leg. Rather painful and left a small ugly bruise each time. Shame on me for letting it happen a second time.

Yeah, I've found that those little pieces of trimmer string are much more likely to hurt my leg than anything else.  I'd still rather not soak completely through a pair of long pants, though.

That's ultimately the issue that has always caused me to wear shorts. I get utterly soaked with sweat when I'm outside mowing and edging even when I wear shorts.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 07, 2022, 02:39:55 PM
Plus if I'm outside working, clothing absorbs sweat,

That's precisely why I wear as little as possible when working outside in the heat.  I can't stand sweaty clothes clinging to me.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on June 07, 2022, 02:49:34 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 02:39:25 PMYeah, I've found that those little pieces of trimmer string are much more likely to hurt my leg than anything else.  I'd still rather not soak completely through a pair of long pants, though.

Why is this important?  Mine go straight into the wash (hot water) after I come back inside.  (I have a completely separate set of clothes for mowing, gardening, auto repair, etc.)  I then take a shower.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 07, 2022, 02:50:54 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 07, 2022, 02:39:55 PM
Plus if I'm outside working, clothing absorbs sweat,

That's precisely why I wear as little as possible when working outside in the heat.  I can't stand sweaty clothes clinging to me.

Interestingly I've found sweaty clothes (specifically a shirt) to be far more effective at keeping the body cool in high heat.  It seems counterintuitive but if I run without a shirt in the summer I have to drink a lot more fluid to stay cool.  Granted, I'm usually wearing loose fitting gym clothes so they don't stick to me either.   
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on June 07, 2022, 02:56:28 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 07, 2022, 02:49:34 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 02:39:25 PMYeah, I've found that those little pieces of trimmer string are much more likely to hurt my leg than anything else.  I'd still rather not soak completely through a pair of long pants, though.

Why is this important?  Mine go straight into the wash (hot water) after I come back inside.  (I have a completely separate set of clothes for mowing, gardening, auto repair, etc.)  I then take a shower.

My problem is that taking a shower doesn't really help cool me down after working in the yard. Maybe I need to blast myself with my wife's hair dryer (holding down the button for cool air) before I shower.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 03:10:14 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 07, 2022, 02:49:34 PM

Quote from: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 02:39:25 PM
Yeah, I've found that those little pieces of trimmer string are much more likely to hurt my leg than anything else.  I'd still rather not soak completely through a pair of long pants, though.

Why is this important?  Mine go straight into the wash (hot water) after I come back inside.  (I have a completely separate set of clothes for mowing, gardening, auto repair, etc.)  I then take a shower.

A couple of reasons:

1.  Because, as I said in my next post, I can't stand sweaty (or wet) clothes clinging to me.  This is especially true with heavy clothes like jeans and sweatshirts.  It's not so bad if it's just a pair of running shorts or a tank top undershirt.

2.  Because mine don't go straight into the wash after I come back inside, and I don't want to put a pair of damp and stinky pants in the laundry basket to fester until the weekend.  Even my socks and tank top undershirt get draped somewhere to dry out before going in the laundry basket.  Unless something unusual happens, we don't do a whole "load" of laundry for just one change of clothes.

But, mainly, I wear shorts because it's just not an issue.  I've mown the lawn in shorts for thirty years.

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 07, 2022, 02:56:28 PM
My problem is that taking a shower doesn't really help cool me down after working in the yard. Maybe I need to blast myself with my wife's hair dryer (holding down the button for cool air) before I shower.

If it's particularly hot outside, then I take a cool shower afterward.  If the temperature is over 100°F outside, then I don't even use the hot water at all.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on June 07, 2022, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 07, 2022, 02:50:54 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 07, 2022, 02:39:55 PM
Plus if I'm outside working, clothing absorbs sweat,

That's precisely why I wear as little as possible when working outside in the heat.  I can't stand sweaty clothes clinging to me.

Interestingly I've found sweaty clothes (specifically a shirt) to be far more effective at keeping the body cool in high heat.  It seems counterintuitive but if I run without a shirt in the summer I have to drink a lot more fluid to stay cool.  Granted, I'm usually wearing loose fitting gym clothes so they don't stick to me either.

I agree as to loose-fitting clothes, t-shirts in particular can be used as a fan of sorts to help cool down. I generally think of the reasoning behind going sans shirt being more related to sun exposure/tanning than to keep cool.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on June 07, 2022, 03:32:01 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 03:10:14 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 07, 2022, 02:56:28 PM
My problem is that taking a shower doesn't really help cool me down after working in the yard. Maybe I need to blast myself with my wife's hair dryer (holding down the button for cool air) before I shower.

If it's particularly hot outside, then I take a cool shower afterward.  If the temperature is over 100°F outside, then I don't even use the hot water at all.

I heard a story once about a horse that dropped dead after being doused with cold water after a long, hard run. I never verified the story, but it's permanently scared me away from taking extreme cool-down measures, including cold showers (which I didn't care for to begin with).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on June 07, 2022, 03:41:15 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 07, 2022, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 07, 2022, 02:50:54 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 07, 2022, 02:39:55 PM
Plus if I'm outside working, clothing absorbs sweat,

That's precisely why I wear as little as possible when working outside in the heat.  I can't stand sweaty clothes clinging to me.

Interestingly I've found sweaty clothes (specifically a shirt) to be far more effective at keeping the body cool in high heat.  It seems counterintuitive but if I run without a shirt in the summer I have to drink a lot more fluid to stay cool.  Granted, I'm usually wearing loose fitting gym clothes so they don't stick to me either.

I agree as to loose-fitting clothes, t-shirts in particular can be used as a fan of sorts to help cool down. I generally think of the reasoning behind going sans shirt being more related to sun exposure/tanning than to keep cool.

I pretty much have to wear a shirt, even if I'm swimming. Hearing the dermatologist say "squamous cell carcinoma," even when she then goes on to say you don't have it yet, has a powerful ability to make you a lot more cautious about such things.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 07, 2022, 03:44:00 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 07, 2022, 03:41:15 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 07, 2022, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 07, 2022, 02:50:54 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 02:46:50 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 07, 2022, 02:39:55 PM
Plus if I'm outside working, clothing absorbs sweat,

That's precisely why I wear as little as possible when working outside in the heat.  I can't stand sweaty clothes clinging to me.

Interestingly I've found sweaty clothes (specifically a shirt) to be far more effective at keeping the body cool in high heat.  It seems counterintuitive but if I run without a shirt in the summer I have to drink a lot more fluid to stay cool.  Granted, I'm usually wearing loose fitting gym clothes so they don't stick to me either.

I agree as to loose-fitting clothes, t-shirts in particular can be used as a fan of sorts to help cool down. I generally think of the reasoning behind going sans shirt being more related to sun exposure/tanning than to keep cool.

I pretty much have to wear a shirt, even if I'm swimming. Hearing the dermatologist say "squamous cell carcinoma," even when she then goes on to say you don't have it yet, has a powerful ability to make you a lot more cautious about such things.

I've had some cancerous skin cells removed a couple times over the years.  I suppose in that sense its doubly good I usually run before sunrise.  I do try to wear long sleeve clothes as long as I can while hiking and wear a hat.  Otherwise I end up using a crap ton of SPF 50.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on June 07, 2022, 04:27:06 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 07, 2022, 02:56:28 PMMy problem is that taking a shower doesn't really help cool me down after working in the yard. Maybe I need to blast myself with my wife's hair dryer (holding down the button for cool air) before I shower.

Last summer I developed a strategy for managing hydration and avoiding heat exhaustion while working outside in the heat and humidity.

*  Before going out, drink a tall glass of water and take 1 g of Vitamin C and 250 mg of magnesium (as magnesium oxide rather than magnesium citrate).

*  Take drinking water outside if the chores are expected to take more than an hour.

*  Drink a tall glass of cold water immediately after coming in from the heat.

If I work outside and then take a shower before I eat lunch, which in the summer usually consists of salad with green leaf lettuce, spring onions, tomato, and diced chicken with ranch dressing, I season the freshly sliced tomatoes with potassium chloride (No Salt or similar).

I evolved this approach after reading a 2016 research paper dealing with control of hypertension in heat-exposed Chinese steelworkers (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27087421/).  It notes that losses of Vitamin C, potassium, and calcium in sweat are positively correlated with high blood pressure.  Although it doesn't directly recommend taking magnesium tablets, it does note that high serum magnesium level is negatively correlated with blood pressure.

If I go outside to walk in the evening on a hot and humid day, on coming back indoors I strip naked to cool down, drink a tall glass of water, take a wet washcloth to wipe sweat off my face, neck, upper shoulders, and arms from wrist to halfway between elbow and armpit, and then dress once dry.  If it is unusually hot, I may also eat ice cream, not just to cool down but also to rehydrate (sucrose, the main sweetener in ice cream, is an approved substitute for glucose in oral rehydration solution).

Quote from: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 03:10:14 PMBecause, as I said in my next post, I can't stand sweaty (or wet) clothes clinging to me.  This is especially true with heavy clothes like jeans and sweatshirts.  It's not so bad if it's just a pair of running shorts or a tank top undershirt.

What about clothes cut from lighter fabric, such as long-sleeved T-shirts and old khaki trousers?  My yard trousers are basically worn-out khakis, and my current long-sleeved T-shirt is a Red Cross blood donation thank-you.

Quote from: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 03:10:14 PMBecause mine don't go straight into the wash after I come back inside, and I don't want to put a pair of damp and stinky pants in the laundry basket to fester until the weekend.  Even my socks and tank top undershirt get draped somewhere to dry out before going in the laundry basket.  Unless something unusual happens, we don't do a whole "load" of laundry for just one change of clothes.

Is it possible to adjust the amount of water used?  When I wash yard clothes after mowing, I usually throw in other items that belong in a hot load--such as bath towels, washcloths, socks, underwear, and the cloths I use for cleaning the screens on my phone and tablet--and still dial down the water.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 04:37:30 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 07, 2022, 04:27:06 PM
Last summer I developed a strategy for managing hydration and avoiding heat exhaustion while working outside in the heat and humidity.

*  Before going out, drink a tall glass of water and take 1 g of Vitamin C and 250 mg of magnesium (as magnesium oxide rather than magnesium citrate).

*  Take drinking water outside if the chores are expected to take more than an hour.

*  Drink a tall glass of cold water immediately after coming in from the heat.

If I work outside and then take a shower before I eat lunch, which in the summer usually consists of salad with green leaf lettuce, spring onions, tomato, and diced chicken with ranch dressing, I season the freshly sliced tomatoes with potassium chloride (No Salt or similar).

Here's my strategy:

1.  Drink something before going outside.  Maybe.  Yeah, probably.  Well, maybe.
2.  Work.
3.  If I feel like I can't go on without a break or a drink of water, then take a break or drink water.  Or if my wife insists.

That's it.

You and I are so different.

Quote from: J N Winkler on June 07, 2022, 04:27:06 PM
What about clothes cut from lighter fabric, such as long-sleeved T-shirts and old khaki trousers?  My yard trousers are basically worn-out khakis, and my current long-sleeved T-shirt is a Red Cross blood donation thank-you.

They still cling to me, which I dislike.  And they don't allow my sweat to evaporate.  Honestly, the idea of wearing long sleeves to mow the lawn in 100°F weather is unthinkable to me.  Ick!

Quote from: J N Winkler on June 07, 2022, 04:27:06 PM
Is it possible to adjust the amount of water used?  When I wash yard clothes after mowing, I usually throw in other items that belong in a hot load--such as bath towels, washcloths, socks, underwear, and the cloths I use for cleaning the screens on my phone and tablet--and still dial down the water.

You're still trying to solve something that isn't a problem.  Remember, I'm the guy who would mow the lawn naked if socially acceptable.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on June 07, 2022, 05:09:20 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 04:37:30 PM
Remember, I'm the guy who would mow the lawn naked if socially acceptable.

And risk getting your jimmy hit by a rock?  No thanks!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on June 07, 2022, 05:25:08 PM
My solution is to pay the dude who mows the yard of the rental house next door $60 to do my yard too while he's there.

Doing yard work is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on June 07, 2022, 05:40:38 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 07, 2022, 05:25:08 PM
Doing yard work is overrated.

I used to look at it as a workout opportunity combined with "getting in touch with nature" as well as surveying the backyard. It was nice for 60-90 minutes if the lawn hadn't grown much, but the peak summer moments that take 2-3 hours, and then feeling totally drained, was just not worth my lost weekend time. So I pay folks to mow and edge and I'm fine with that.

I do about an hour of gardening each month nowadays, maybe a little longer when spring begins.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on June 07, 2022, 05:49:13 PM
Yeah, there's something to be said about going out and merely enjoying existing on the property, but I accomplish that by doing a short walk-around when going out to check the mail, collect the garbage cans, or check on the pool. Spending multiple hours out there isn't a good use of my time, and I get no personal satisfaction out of it. Both of those are probably partially due to the fairly basic lawnmower and weedeater I have, which led to a result that took twice as long and was half as good as just paying Marcus do it for me.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on June 07, 2022, 05:51:10 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 04:37:30 PMYou and I are so different.

Yup!

Quote from: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 04:37:30 PMThey still cling to me, which I dislike.  And they don't allow my sweat to evaporate.  Honestly, the idea of wearing long sleeves to mow the lawn in 100°F weather is unthinkable to me.  Ick!

I don't worry about the sweat as long as I'm staying ahead on hydration and nutrient loss.  Feeling fresh again is what the shower is for.

Admittedly, I'm dealing with a larger lot as well as sidelong ground with loose small rocks and a history of poison ivy, so that informs my dress choices.

I'd say that complete sweat soaking is a bit of an exaggeration, BTW.  My clothes do pick up a considerable amount of sweat, but even if the day is hot enough that I end up with pools of it in my glasses and sunshades, the soak-through usually starts below my chest and ends mid-thigh.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on June 07, 2022, 05:59:41 PM


Quote from: J N Winkler on June 07, 2022, 04:27:06 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 07, 2022, 02:56:28 PMMy problem is that taking a shower doesn't really help cool me down after working in the yard. Maybe I need to blast myself with my wife's hair dryer (holding down the button for cool air) before I shower.

Last summer I developed a strategy for managing hydration and avoiding heat exhaustion while working outside in the heat and humidity.

*  Before going out, drink a tall glass of water and take 1 g of Vitamin C and 250 mg of magnesium (as magnesium oxide rather than magnesium citrate).

*  Take drinking water outside if the chores are expected to take more than an hour.

*  Drink a tall glass of cold water immediately after coming in from the heat.

If I work outside and then take a shower before I eat lunch, which in the summer usually consists of salad with green leaf lettuce, spring onions, tomato, and diced chicken with ranch dressing, I season the freshly sliced tomatoes with potassium chloride (No Salt or similar).

I evolved this approach after reading a 2016 research paper dealing with control of hypertension in heat-exposed Chinese steelworkers (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27087421/).  It notes that losses of Vitamin C, potassium, and calcium in sweat are positively correlated with high blood pressure.  Although it doesn't directly recommend taking magnesium tablets, it does note that high serum magnesium level is negatively correlated with blood pressure.

If I go outside to walk in the evening on a hot and humid day, on coming back indoors I strip naked to cool down, drink a tall glass of water, take a wet washcloth to wipe sweat off my face, neck, upper shoulders, and arms from wrist to halfway between elbow and armpit, and then dress once dry.  If it is unusually hot, I may also eat ice cream, not just to cool down but also to rehydrate (sucrose, the main sweetener in ice cream, is an approved substitute for glucose in oral rehydration solution).

Heh.  I'd expect no less from you.  Strange that you would base an approach on the findings of a single paper rather than a more comprehensive view of the state of the art.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 07, 2022, 06:43:06 PM
My solution for hydration on a standard 13.1 mile run is as follows:

Below 60F

-  32oz water pre run.
-  32oz of Gatorade during the run.
-  24oz of water after the run.

60-70F

-  40oz water pre run.
-  32oz of Gatorade during the run.
-  40oz of water after the run.

70-80F

-  50oz water pre run.
-  40oz of Gatorade during the run.
-  30oz of water and 20oz of Gatorade after the run.

80-90F

-  60oz water pre run.
-  50oz of Gatorade during the run.
-  40oz of water and 20oz of Gatorade after the run.

Usually I just cap runs at 10 miles if it's above 90F.  Learned my lesson from an ER visit after a 14.1 mile run in 92F in 2015. 

Also, pre-run hydration takes place over no more than 30 minutes.  I try to sip water for a solid 30-40 minutes post run too.  I do try to time my last sip of water no later than an hour before I need to leave for work or some place else.  Downing so much fluid can lead to bladder issues that tend to happen all at once if not timed right.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on June 07, 2022, 07:54:00 PM
I never want to sweat if I don't have to. So I wear almost exclusively t-shirts and shorts when it's above 50-55.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on June 07, 2022, 08:44:00 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 07, 2022, 05:51:10 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 04:37:30 PMYou and I are so different.

Yup!

Except in one respect: you both tend to compose rather lengthy posts on this forum (with this quote ironically being the exception!)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 07, 2022, 08:49:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 07, 2022, 05:25:08 PM
Doing yard work is overrated.

I don't mind the mowing itself.  It's the trimming that seems like way more work than it should be.  And I really hate the little saplings that grow all along the fence lines, up against the house, and up through the front bush.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 07, 2022, 06:43:06 PM
80-90F

-  60oz water pre run.
-  50oz of Gatorade during the run.
-  40oz of water and 20oz of Gatorade after the run.

I used to just mix sugar and salt and lemon juice into some water, for a poor man's Gatorade.

Do you buy the regular Gatorade or the G2 stuff?  I like both.

My dad and I used to play competitive Frisbee.  We'd go up to the high school football field and play for points.  If you missed a catch, then it was a point against you.  But, if the throw was determined to be uncatchable, then it was a point against the other player instead.  Basically, the goal was to make the other person have to do as much work as possible to catch the Frisbee without it being impossible.  Really good exercise, because most of the catches involved sprinting.  Anyway, one day my dad and I had been playing this game with a German foreign exchange student who was living with us.  It was hot, and we were tired when we got home.  We popped open some Gatorade, then my dad got the idea to mix it with sparkling mineral water and some Rumple Minze.  Wow, that hit the spot!



The lawn was dry enough for me to mow when I got home today, so that's what I did.  It was 87°F, but it felt more like about 94°F or so, for some reason.  40% humidity.  Anyway, here was my routine:

1.  Changed into gym shorts, a white tank top undershirt, and an old pair of sneakers.

2.  No pre-mowing hydration at all.

3.  Mowed the front yard, started feeling worn down, almost decided to take a break as I headed to the back yard.

4.  Perked up as I started mowing the back yard, which is twice as large but has a little more shade than the front, so didn't take a break.

5.  Mowed the back yard, put the mower away, replaced the window well covers, locked the shed, headed around front to take my shoes off and go inside.

6.  Realized I'd forgotten to mow half the front yard (I had cut a path through the middle, mown the street-side half, then forgot I hadn't mown the house-side half.

7.  Got the mower out again, re-started it, finished the front yard, started feeling some decent heat exhaustion, but managed to finish without a break.

8.  Took a lukewarm shower, despite the active boil ban that had apparently gone into effect while I was mowing.

9.  With dinner, had a can of Dole pineapple juice and a bottle of Mike's strawberry hard lemonade.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 07, 2022, 09:49:54 PM
G2 is solid, I try to pick it up if it is available during my regular Costco run.  Really though, I'll pretty much drink anything they have available since a couple hundred calories tends to be nominal at those run distances.  Usually I average a caloric expenditure of about 1,400 calories on a typical half marathon run.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on June 08, 2022, 12:04:50 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 07, 2022, 05:25:08 PM
My solution is to pay the dude who mows the yard of the rental house next door $60 to do my yard too while he's there.

Doing yard work is overrated.

:clap:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on June 08, 2022, 12:06:52 AM
Gatorade is overrated.  If you're not a serious athlete in training for a marathon or something you probably just need the water, not the electrolytes.  And if you are in training, you should do your own research, but probably less sugars would be good.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 08, 2022, 12:21:16 AM
Quote from: kkt on June 08, 2022, 12:06:52 AM
Gatorade is overrated.  If you're not a serious athlete in training for a marathon or something you probably just need the water, not the electrolytes.  And if you are in training, you should do your own research, but probably less sugars would be good.

Avoiding sugar becomes overrated during strenuous cardio training.  Really the goal isn't to lose weight "per se"  with training, so really anything lessens that gap between caloric intake/expenditure is good.  Figure for every mile run the average person is going to expend 100-150 calories.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on June 08, 2022, 11:12:26 AM
Gatorade is a scam. I drink water only.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 08, 2022, 11:21:03 AM
Quote from: thspfc on June 08, 2022, 11:12:26 AM
Gatorade is a scam. I drink water only.

It isn't worth it usually for someone totally inactive but the electrolytes do make a significant difference for an athlete.  In fact when I ended up in the ER for dehydration after that 14.1 mile run above the only real thing the hospital gave me was a crap ton of Gatorade coupled with EKGs.  It also makes a huge difference relieving hang overs.  I've also found Gatorade helpful in relieving migraines (which probably were probably partially caused by dehydration).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 11:23:30 AM
Water is a scam.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: plain on June 08, 2022, 01:34:48 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 11:23:30 AM
Water is a scam.

Especially most of these bottled waters
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 02:04:18 PM
Quote from: plain on June 08, 2022, 01:34:48 PM

Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 11:23:30 AM
Water is a scam.

Especially most of these bottled waters

My city just issued a boil water advisory yesterday, and I realized the only water I have in the house is in these forms:
1.  La Croix mineral water in cans,
2.  A five-gallon jug of water from the hose that's been on the front porch for months.

So I'm actually starting to think I should buy some bottled water, just in case.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 08, 2022, 02:14:34 PM
Quote from: plain on June 08, 2022, 01:34:48 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 11:23:30 AM
Water is a scam.

Especially most of these bottled waters

Aside from boil notices I tend to agree domestically.  Most domestic tap water "to me"  tasted better than the bottled water brands. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: plain on June 08, 2022, 02:22:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 02:04:18 PM
Quote from: plain on June 08, 2022, 01:34:48 PM

Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 11:23:30 AM
Water is a scam.

Especially most of these bottled waters

My city just issued a boil water advisory yesterday, and I realized the only water I have in the house is in these forms:
1.  La Croix mineral water in cans,
2.  A five-gallon jug of water from the hose that's been on the front porch for months.

So I'm actually starting to think I should buy some bottled water, just in case.

Oh yes, definitely buy a case or jugs of water in that case.

My thing was all of these brands of water you see in the stores (Dasani, Aquafina, Evian, etc.) aren't worth it.

Just a case or jug of whatever generic water from your local grocery is all you need.


Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 08, 2022, 02:14:34 PM
Aside from boil notices I tend to agree domestically.  Most domestic tap water "to me"  tasted better than the bottled water brands. 

I love good tap water, there's nothing like it. Though there were a few times where I went to someone's house and theirs wasn't really up to par... but that was rare.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on June 08, 2022, 03:19:03 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 02:04:18 PMMy city just issued a boil water advisory yesterday . . .

Personally, I think boil-water advisories are overrated, especially in our case, where it was triggered by a technical issue with filter replacement.  We are under it for 24 hours minimum largely for regulatory compliance--the lab tests to prove bacteria are not present in the water at more than acceptable levels cannot be completed in less than that time.

Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 02:04:18 PMSo I'm actually starting to think I should buy some bottled water, just in case.

I also think this is overrated.  Stored water needs to be changed out every so often (not least because plastic bottles often leak) and the associated hassle factor is not insignificant.

I once ruined a surplus office table simply by leaving a plastic bottle of distilled water on top of it.  It leaked and the water penetrated the paint coat, corroding the steel underneath.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 03:24:17 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 08, 2022, 03:19:03 PM
Stored water needs to be changed out every so often (not least because plastic bottles often leak) and the associated hassle factor is not insignificant.

I once ruined a surplus office table simply by leaving a plastic bottle of distilled water on top of it.  It leaked and the water penetrated the paint coat, corroding the steel underneath.

My co-worker just cleaned out the conference room mini-fridge today, and all but one of the bottles of water had leaked.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Big John on June 08, 2022, 05:34:40 PM
Remember that evian is naive spelled backwards.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on June 08, 2022, 06:13:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 07, 2022, 05:25:08 PM
Doing yard work is overrated.

Not only that, but the idea that you need to have a well-kept, finely manicured yard that requires constant attention, spotless grass with no dead areas or unsightly weeds, and so on.

Some people enjoy yard work. I consider it a chore that must be done occasionally to keep from having to walk through a field of waist-high grass with the accompanying insects and snakes and piles of dog crap that make venturing out into such treacherous.

Quote from: Big John on June 08, 2022, 05:34:40 PM
Remember that evian is naive spelled backwards.

The person who came up with the idea of selling bottled water belongs in the Marketing Hall of Fame, along with the dude who turned a throwaway part of the chicken into some kind of delicacy.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on June 08, 2022, 06:44:24 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 11:23:30 AM
Water is a scam.

I could say it is, because it's so damn cheap to produce. But it isn't, because people know what they're getting: Water.  There's really nothing hidden about it.  And that's what the customer wants.  If they want Evian because it's a premium label, whatever. They probably also buy designer other stuff also that they spend more money than necessary on.

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 07, 2022, 05:25:08 PM
Doing yard work is overrated.

This is overrated if someone is trying to go for the Yard-of-the-year award...especially if it doesn't exist.  I like keeping my yard somewhat decorative.  Over the years I've installed some retaining walls, a fountain, several areas of mulch, and overall keep it looking nice.  But I don't water the yard - if there's a dry spell, the yard turns brown, and goes dormant.  Means less grass to mow.   No reason to try to keep it green for the sake of keeping it green.

For me, it's not overrated because it gives me a bit of joy and relaxation to look it; much like something else in the house people may look at with satisfaction and pride.

I also have township property behind my house that I maintain on my own.  Keeps the weeds back from the fence and gives us a nice area to play horseshoes or whatever.  The worst is the poison ivy in the areas I don't maintain - that stuff has been relentless lately.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on June 08, 2022, 06:46:40 PM
I finally figured out that I wasn't drinking as much water as I should have bc I'm too lazy to go downstairs to refill my water bottle (and the tap water here isn't fantastic, even filtered).  I haven't really experimented beyond Mountain Valley and Liquid Death, because those are the two I'm aware of that are (a) widely available and (b) packaged in glass or aluminum containers, but I just started monthly delivery of Mountain Valley, and I'm happy with it so far.

Come at me.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on June 08, 2022, 06:48:33 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 08, 2022, 06:46:40 PM
I finally figured out that I wasn't drinking as much water as I should have bc I'm too lazy to go downstairs to refill my water bottle (and the tap water here isn't fantastic, even filtered).  I haven't really experimented beyond Mountain Valley and Liquid Death, because those are the two I'm aware of that are (a) widely available and (b) packaged in glass or aluminum containers, but I just started monthly delivery of Mountain Valley, and I'm happy with it so far.

Come at me.

If it's encouraging you to drink more water, then it's money well spent.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 07:16:00 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 08, 2022, 06:44:24 PM

Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 11:23:30 AM
Water is a scam.

I could say it is, because it's so damn cheap to produce. But it isn't, because people know what they're getting: Water.  There's really nothing hidden about it.  And that's what the customer wants.  If they want Evian because it's a premium label, whatever. They probably also buy designer other stuff also that they spend more money than necessary on.

I was actually being sarcastic when I posted that.  I don't think water is overrated.  Well, I do think that "drinking enough water" might be overrated, but that's not exactly the same thing.  Or rather, I think the amount that people say you "should" drink are usually higher than necessary.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 09, 2022, 05:35:50 PM
This one is for the runners on here:

What do you think of pre-run stretching?  Overrated or properly rated?

I've never been one to stretch before exercising unless the weather is cold.  I'm more likely to stretch afterward, though.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: XamotCGC on June 09, 2022, 05:53:52 PM
People who steal Highway 420, Highway 666, and Highway 69 numbered road signs.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 09, 2022, 06:32:26 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on June 09, 2022, 05:53:52 PM
People who steal Highway 420, Highway 666, and Highway 69 numbered road signs.

Does anybody really rate those people highly?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 09, 2022, 06:36:54 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 09, 2022, 06:32:26 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on June 09, 2022, 05:53:52 PM
People who steal Highway 420, Highway 666, and Highway 69 numbered road signs.

Does anybody really rate those people highly?

How many of those highways with those numbers would be highly rated enough to merit a sign being a collective item regardless of the source?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 09, 2022, 06:45:34 PM
US-666 was a moderately enjoyable drive.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 09, 2022, 06:50:19 PM
The thing that I always thought was weird about US 666 was that so many people remember it more for the poor northern New Mexico pavement than the bad ass Coronado Trail segment in Arizona.  How the Coronado Trail as US 191 is still overlooked even today is equally as odd.

What is now CA 245 and was CA 69 is an awesome mountain highway.  I'd speculate it might even have the most curves per mile of any California State Route.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on June 09, 2022, 08:50:52 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on June 09, 2022, 05:53:52 PM
People who steal Highway 420, Highway 666, and Highway 69 numbered road signs.

Here in Colorado, near the Mesa/Garfield County line and west along I-70, CDOT recently started a sign replacement project...

CDOT in the last 2-3 weeks replaced green MILE 68.99 in both directions with new MILE 69 signs....

The westbound mile marker is already missing!!!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Ted$8roadFan on June 10, 2022, 06:02:52 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 08, 2022, 02:14:34 PM
Quote from: plain on June 08, 2022, 01:34:48 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 11:23:30 AM
Water is a scam.

Especially most of these bottled waters

Aside from boil notices I tend to agree domestically.  Most domestic tap water "to me"  tasted better than the bottled water brands.

Or if you live in a state (like Florida) with higher risk of natural disasters that actively encourage folks to have bottled water in the event of a major hurricane.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on June 10, 2022, 08:37:34 AM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on June 10, 2022, 06:02:52 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 08, 2022, 02:14:34 PM
Quote from: plain on June 08, 2022, 01:34:48 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 11:23:30 AM
Water is a scam.

Especially most of these bottled waters

Aside from boil notices I tend to agree domestically.  Most domestic tap water "to me"  tasted better than the bottled water brands.

Or if you live in a state (like Florida) with higher risk of natural disasters that actively encourage folks to have bottled water in the event of a major hurricane.

I'd be more worried about someone living in an area where natural disasters occur with little to no notice:  A tornado or earthquake variable area, for example.

Unless the person lives off the grid, someone in a hurricane prone area will have several day's notice that a storm could be approaching.  And while we think of Florida being hurricane prone, it's such a big state that most areas rarely see a significant hurricane.

While there's plenty of news stories out there warning people to always have significant supplies of emergency food and water on hand, the reality is someone will probably do fine with what's in their pantry for a week if they absolutely had to.  It's those that run out of money, don't have electric, or whose home was destroyed that tend to have the most problems...and the emergency supply of food ain't gonna do them any good when their home is collapsed onto those supplies.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on June 10, 2022, 09:01:44 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 10, 2022, 08:37:34 AM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on June 10, 2022, 06:02:52 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 08, 2022, 02:14:34 PM
Quote from: plain on June 08, 2022, 01:34:48 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 11:23:30 AM
Water is a scam.

Especially most of these bottled waters

Aside from boil notices I tend to agree domestically.  Most domestic tap water “to me” tasted better than the bottled water brands.

Or if you live in a state (like Florida) with higher risk of natural disasters that actively encourage folks to have bottled water in the event of a major hurricane.

I'd be more worried about someone living in an area where natural disasters occur with little to no notice:  A tornado or earthquake variable area, for example.

Unless the person lives off the grid, someone in a hurricane prone area will have several day's notice that a storm could be approaching.  And while we think of Florida being hurricane prone, it's such a big state that most areas rarely see a significant hurricane.

While there's plenty of news stories out there warning people to always have significant supplies of emergency food and water on hand, the reality is someone will probably do fine with what's in their pantry for a week if they absolutely had to.  It's those that run out of money, don't have electric, or whose home was destroyed that tend to have the most problems...and the emergency supply of food ain't gonna do them any good when their home is collapsed onto those supplies.

Still, you should prepare because even though there's reports of truly awful damage, statistically most people are only mildly affected by a hurricane or other natural disaster.

If you can afford to be prepared, do it. Better to be away from the uncanny valley of opportunistic panic hoarders and empty shelves. Then in 6-12 months, you rotate your stock, depleting what you can (water, food, batteries, et cetera) and re-stock. Less of it goes stale, leaks, or becomes unusable by that method. Obviously items with short shelf lives don't work in that type of rotation schedule, you prepare for that on an ad hoc basis.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on June 11, 2022, 01:41:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 09, 2022, 05:35:50 PM
This one is for the runners on here:

What do you think of pre-run stretching?  Overrated or properly rated?

I've never been one to stretch before exercising unless the weather is cold.  I'm more likely to stretch afterward, though.
Properly rated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on June 11, 2022, 01:46:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 08, 2022, 06:13:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 07, 2022, 05:25:08 PM
Doing yard work is overrated.

Not only that, but the idea that you need to have a well-kept, finely manicured yard that requires constant attention, spotless grass with no dead areas or unsightly weeds, and so on.
Sadly, the more you actually use your yard, the worse its condition gets. I love the look of perfect grass as much as anyone, but I couldn't bear to mess it up by doing something on it.

In colder climates, if you want a decent-looking yard, you pretty much have to leave it untouched between the first major snowfall and the last.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on June 11, 2022, 05:48:28 PM
That's partly why I stopped spraying for weeds–if the perfect uniform appearance is already marred by dandelions or whatever, nobody's going to notice my footprints from when I go over to check on the trees or go get rain out of the barrel or whatever.

I'm sure there's a certain type of person who would seize up knowing that I've started intentionally planting clover in bare patches that I've never been able to get actual grass to grow in. Clover is nice because it grows to a fairly uniform height that is acceptable enough without having to be mowed. Bees like it, too, which some may see as a drawback but I see as a benefit. I like bees.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on June 12, 2022, 04:49:02 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 11, 2022, 05:48:28 PM
That's partly why I stopped spraying for weeds–if the perfect uniform appearance is already marred by dandelions or whatever, nobody's going to notice my footprints from when I go over to check on the trees or go get rain out of the barrel or whatever.

I'm sure there's a certain type of person who would seize up knowing that I've started intentionally planting clover in bare patches that I've never been able to get actual grass to grow in. Clover is nice because it grows to a fairly uniform height that is acceptable enough without having to be mowed. Bees like it, too, which some may see as a drawback but I see as a benefit. I like bees.

All kinds of natural clover here. Yes, the bees like it, and the rabbits do too.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: XamotCGC on June 15, 2022, 05:07:12 PM
Tinnitus.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 15, 2022, 05:14:33 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on June 15, 2022, 05:07:12 PM
Tinnitus.

Are there people out there promoting tinnitus as a good thing? 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 15, 2022, 05:46:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 15, 2022, 05:14:33 PM

Quote from: XamotCGC on June 15, 2022, 05:07:12 PM
Tinnitus.

Are there people out there promoting tinnitus as a good thing? 

I'm betting not.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: XamotCGC on June 15, 2022, 11:49:52 PM
Quote from: XamotCGC on June 15, 2022, 05:07:12 PM
Tinnitus.
Whoops I just realized I put this in the wrong thread. I meant to put this in the minor things that bother you thread.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on September 22, 2022, 01:53:20 PM
Steak is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on September 22, 2022, 01:58:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2022, 01:53:20 PM
Steak is overrated.
Yassssss
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on September 22, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
I don't know that steak is overrated, but steakhouses are a whole category of restaurant I cheerfully ignore.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on September 22, 2022, 02:12:08 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 22, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
I don't know that steak is overrated, but steakhouses are a whole category of restaurant I cheerfully ignore.

I'm curious to know why–and I'm assuming for obvious reasons that it isn't because of the noisy atmosphere.

As for my wife and me, we also generally avoid steakhouses, but that's because we both think steak is overrated.  However, we've found Texas Roadhouse to be a pretty good bang for your buck.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on September 22, 2022, 02:14:02 PM
I like steak just fine, but think bacon is overrated
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on September 22, 2022, 02:20:23 PM
Steak is overrated.
Bacon is overpriced.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on September 22, 2022, 02:22:02 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 22, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
I don't know that steak is overrated, but steakhouses are a whole category of restaurant I cheerfully ignore.

100%. As someone who managed one of the fancier steakhouses in Denver, almost always, steakhouses have uninteresting food, overpriced everything, shitty wine lists, etc.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on September 22, 2022, 03:35:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2022, 02:12:08 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on September 22, 2022, 02:09:31 PMI don't know that steak is overrated, but steakhouses are a whole category of restaurant I cheerfully ignore.

I'm curious to know why–and I'm assuming for obvious reasons that it isn't because of the noisy atmosphere.

The main reason is that steak (generally flatiron) plus baked potato is considered an "easy" meal at our house.  The total active prep time (rinsing potatoes, wrapping them in foil, putting steak on broiler pan lined with foil, seasoning it with lemon pepper, moving things in and out of the oven, etc.) is around 20 minutes and yields satisfactory eating.

A high-end restaurant that specializes in steak (including, in our local area, not just the Scotch and Sirloin or the now-closed Portobello Road, but also golf course clubhouse catering operations such as at Terradyne Country Club) will have some offerings that are not so easy to replicate in a home kitchen, such as prime rib with red wine and mushroom sauce.  However, we are not normally this fancy.  Generally, when it is not a special occasion (such as a gathering with friends) and we are looking to eat out or get takeaway, we look for dishes that are harder to do at home, such as gyros, tabbouleh, crawfish étouffée (the brown sauce is tricky), or even fried chicken (we have no way to do it without making an incredible mess).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on September 22, 2022, 03:52:46 PM
I don't think the taste of steak is overrated, but the overall experience of eating steak is overrated when there's too much fat and/or gristle for it to be enjoyable, which is about 90% of the time.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on September 22, 2022, 03:54:02 PM
Quote from: webny99 on September 22, 2022, 03:52:46 PM
I don't think the taste of steak is overrated, but the overall experience of eating steak is overrated when there's too much fat and/or gristle for it to be enjoyable, which is about 90% of the time.

Buy a nice prime ribeye and you shouldn't have to cut off any fat.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on September 22, 2022, 04:46:06 PM
Steak isn't overrated, until you feel you're paying too much for it. And that's a different price point for each individual. I'll go out for a $30-40 steak maybe once or twice a year, but I also get a lot more personal satisfaction making a "cheap" steak on the grill or firepit.

For the record, I enjoy going to an expensive restaurant with my wife 2-3 times a year; it's something we couldn't really afford a decade or two ago, and it checks all the boxes of "takes reservations", "great for friends and couples", "can hear normal conversation", "devoid of TVs", "has a piano player in lieu of a radio", and "popular enough to stay in business". But since we've been together for over two decades, we're also happy enough occasionally sneaking away to Milo's Hamburgers for moments that don't revolve around greeting cards.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on September 22, 2022, 04:54:43 PM
I still prefer a chop steak to a real steak anyway.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on September 22, 2022, 05:27:12 PM
I don't think steak is overrated. Steak as a restaurant meal is overrated. I can consistently turn out a better steak at home for cheaper than I can get one in a restaurant.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on September 22, 2022, 05:28:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2022, 04:54:43 PM
I still prefer a chop steak to a real steak anyway.

So basically a burger or hot tartare, yeah?  :)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on September 22, 2022, 06:39:13 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 22, 2022, 05:28:15 PM

Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2022, 04:54:43 PM
I still prefer a chop steak to a real steak anyway.

So basically a burger or hot tartare, yeah?  :)

Yeah, basically a hamburger patty.  Put some gravy on that bad boy, and I think it's just as good as a steak–but 90% less likely to be stringy/tough/otherwise hard to eat.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on September 22, 2022, 07:51:18 PM
Huh.  There's a Scotch and Sirloin I know of in central NY.  Looks like it isn't a chain.  Just a popular title with various takes on the "and."
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kirbykart on September 22, 2022, 07:54:45 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 11, 2022, 01:41:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 09, 2022, 05:35:50 PM
This one is for the runners on here:

What do you think of pre-run stretching?  Overrated or properly rated?

I've never been one to stretch before exercising unless the weather is cold.  I'm more likely to stretch afterward, though.
Properly rated.
Keeping in mind I'm in high school (and a freshman at that!) my cross-country coach says to do dynamic stretching before and static stretching after.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: vdeane on September 22, 2022, 08:36:33 PM
I agree with the mentions of steak and bacon.  I certainly appreciate them, especially as I've gotten older, but I don't understand the pedestal they seem to be put on by society.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on September 22, 2022, 09:10:25 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 22, 2022, 08:36:33 PM
I agree with the mentions of steak and bacon.  I certainly appreciate them, especially as I've gotten older, but I don't understand the pedestal they seem to be put on by society.

Sometime over the last decade, there seems to be bacon added onto at least two items on every menu.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on September 23, 2022, 11:27:07 AM
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2022, 02:20:23 PM
Bacon is overpriced.

Very true. You're paying a lot of money for a lot of fat.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on October 03, 2022, 01:09:10 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 23, 2022, 11:27:07 AM
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2022, 02:20:23 PM
Bacon is overpriced.

Very true. You're paying a lot of money for a lot of fat.

But bacon fat is so tasty!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on October 06, 2022, 01:12:43 PM
Quote from: kkt on October 03, 2022, 01:09:10 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 23, 2022, 11:27:07 AM
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2022, 02:20:23 PM
Bacon is overpriced.

Very true. You're paying a lot of money for a lot of fat.

But bacon fat is so tasty!
But isn't bacon in the UK essentially pork belly without nearly as much fat?  It's absolutely not the same as bacon in the US of A, wouldn't go so far as to call it "not tasty."
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 06, 2022, 02:22:04 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 06, 2022, 01:12:43 PM
Quote from: kkt on October 03, 2022, 01:09:10 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 23, 2022, 11:27:07 AM
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2022, 02:20:23 PM
Bacon is overpriced.

Very true. You're paying a lot of money for a lot of fat.

But bacon fat is so tasty!
But isn't bacon in the UK essentially pork belly without nearly as much fat?  It's absolutely not the same as bacon in the US of A, wouldn't go so far as to call it "not tasty."

No. That's what it is in the US. Bacon in the US is a cured portion of the pork belly. Bacon in the UK is cut from the loin so it's way less fatty.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kirbykart on December 22, 2022, 12:33:29 PM
Minor bump:
Quote from: hbelkins on December 22, 2022, 09:31:17 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 21, 2022, 07:15:27 PM
MMM's posts.

Wrong thread. Quick, someone not as lazy as me find a link to the "overrated" thread.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on December 22, 2022, 12:40:53 PM
Anything that the majority of the weight is bone, shell, or other unedible substance is overrated. King Crab Legs: You're paying for a large shell with a little meat.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on December 22, 2022, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 22, 2022, 12:40:53 PM
Anything that the majority of the weight is bone, shell, or other unedible substance is overrated. King Crab Legs: You're paying for a large shell with a little meat.

You're even paying more this year due to the massive loss of king crabs in the Bering Sea (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/10/14/alaska-snow-king-crab-disappear/10496997002/). I'm not a fan either. I don't care for anything where there's that much work to get food. I prefer Maryland crab cakes because someone's done the work for me.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on December 22, 2022, 01:19:12 PM
Quote from: skluth on December 22, 2022, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 22, 2022, 12:40:53 PM
Anything that the majority of the weight is bone, shell, or other unedible substance is overrated. King Crab Legs: You're paying for a large shell with a little meat.

You're even paying more this year due to the massive loss of king crabs in the Bering Sea (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/10/14/alaska-snow-king-crab-disappear/10496997002/). I'm not a fan either. I don't care for anything where there's that much work to get food. I prefer Maryland crab cakes because someone's done the work for me.
I don't think I've ever had a crab leg where it was anywhere near as much effort to get the meat as it is with...standard crabs, whatever you call those things they love in Maryland.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: dlsterner on December 22, 2022, 06:54:32 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 22, 2022, 01:19:12 PM
I don't think I've ever had a crab leg where it was anywhere near as much effort to get the meat as it is with...standard crabs, whatever you call those things they love in Maryland.
"Blue crab" is the term you're thinking of.  And yes they are a lot of work.  I would just as soon have a crab cake instead.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on December 22, 2022, 06:56:55 PM
Yeah, it isn't the amount of food vsvs shell that gets me, it's the amount of work required.  By golly, if I'm paying you for dinner, then you can at least go to the trouble of getting the meat out of the animal first.

Cracking nuts is right up there too, although I did buy a bag this fall.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on December 23, 2022, 07:45:01 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 22, 2022, 01:19:12 PM
I don't think I've ever had a crab leg where it was anywhere near as much effort to get the meat as it is with...standard crabs, whatever you call those things they love in Maryland.
Yeah, but watching a somewhat tipsy colleague bash those crabs with the hammer ...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on December 23, 2022, 10:18:16 AM
Quote from: kphoger on December 22, 2022, 06:56:55 PM
Yeah, it isn't the amount of food vsvs shell that gets me, it's the amount of work required.  By golly, if I'm paying you for dinner, then you can at least go to the trouble of getting the meat out of the animal first.

Cracking nuts is right up there too, although I did buy a bag this fall.

The other good thing about crabcakes is that I don't have to worry about accidentally ingesting whatever organ in the crab is fatal.

Cracking nuts is a great way to ensure you're eating them slowly and not just shoveling them in your mouth by the fistful.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on December 23, 2022, 11:24:01 AM
Lindsey Stirling
Michael Buble
Josh Groban
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on December 23, 2022, 11:36:47 AM
Quote from: Rothman on December 23, 2022, 11:24:01 AM
Lindsey Stirling
Michael Buble
Josh Groban

Someone's experiencing Christmas music fatigue.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on December 23, 2022, 12:37:03 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on December 23, 2022, 11:36:47 AM
Quote from: Rothman on December 23, 2022, 11:24:01 AM
Lindsey Stirling
Michael Buble
Josh Groban

Someone's experiencing Christmas music fatigue.
Nope.  Just these popping up on friend's FB posts...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on December 23, 2022, 03:52:45 PM
Driving around to look at Christmas lights.

There.  I said it.  Now someone else please tell my wife.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 23, 2022, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 23, 2022, 03:52:45 PM
Driving around to look at Christmas lights.

There.  I said it.  Now someone else please tell my wife.

Tell that to my wife.  She's entered us in a charity race the last couple years given that's the only way to get onto Christmas Tree Lane on foot in Fig Garden Village.  Since 2020 foot traffic has been banned otherwise (reason given was COVID).  Personally I rather just drive through or go to a free lighting show that doesn't have weird rules.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on December 23, 2022, 05:01:46 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 23, 2022, 04:22:17 PM
Personally I rather just drive through or ...

That's the worst.  Averaging 0.003 mph, a jacked-up diesel pickup behind you that didn't switch to parking lights, lights timed to your least favorite Christmas song, someone at the end of the cul-de-sac who doesn't know how to drive, two neighbors glaring at everyone as they desperately try to pull into their driveways after work...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 23, 2022, 05:13:09 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 23, 2022, 05:01:46 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 23, 2022, 04:22:17 PM
Personally I rather just drive through or ...

That's the worst.  Averaging 0.003 mph, a jacked-up diesel pickup behind you that didn't switch to parking lights, lights timed to your least favorite Christmas song, someone at the end of the cul-de-sac who doesn't know how to drive, two neighbors glaring at everyone as they desperately try to pull into their driveways after work...

We did Cambria Pines back in 2020 and had a great time.  It was outdoor and there wasn't a bunch of NIMBY oriented rules.  I suggested Hart Park in Bakersfield this year but it was a no go.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on December 23, 2022, 05:30:25 PM
In no particular order...

oregano
red velvet cake
pork chops
Twinkies
biscuits
frosting
bagels
caviar
Cadbury creme eggs
oranges
Cool Whip
Champagne
popcorn
Hershey's milk chocolate
corn on the cob
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on December 23, 2022, 05:58:32 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 23, 2022, 05:30:25 PM
In no particular order...

oregano
red velvet cake
pork chops
Twinkies
biscuits
frosting
bagels
caviar
Cadbury creme eggs
oranges
Cool Whip
Champagne
popcorn
Hershey's milk chocolate
corn on the cob
Dem's fighting words.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on December 23, 2022, 06:01:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 23, 2022, 05:30:25 PM
In no particular order...

oregano
red velvet cake
pork chops
Twinkies
biscuits
frosting
bagels
caviar
Cadbury creme eggs
oranges
Cool Whip
Champagne
popcorn
Hershey's milk chocolate
corn on the cob

Twinkies are disgusting
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on December 23, 2022, 06:06:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 23, 2022, 05:58:32 PM

Quote from: kphoger on December 23, 2022, 05:30:25 PM
In no particular order...

oregano
red velvet cake
pork chops
Twinkies
biscuits
frosting
bagels
caviar
Cadbury creme eggs
oranges
Cool Whip
Champagne
popcorn
Hershey's milk chocolate
corn on the cob

Dem's fighting words.

All of them?  !
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: vdeane on December 23, 2022, 09:03:42 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 23, 2022, 05:30:25 PM
corn on the cob
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_caMQpiwiaU
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on December 24, 2022, 06:32:00 PM
Christmas is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: LilianaUwU on December 24, 2022, 07:54:55 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.
Let people enjoy things.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 24, 2022, 06:32:00 PM
Christmas is overrated.
Same to you.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 08:02:15 PM
I didn't mean the significance of specific holidays themselves, just the vacation aspect, since there are so many. If people were happier overall, they wouldn't feel so desperate to have any specific holiday plans work out.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on December 24, 2022, 08:51:27 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 24, 2022, 06:32:00 PM
Christmas is overrated.
Heard someone say Christmas is more of a deadline than a holiday.

I like the music and the tree and the season and the Christ story...but absolutely hate the gift giving.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 24, 2022, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 08:02:15 PM
I didn't mean the significance of specific holidays themselves, just the vacation aspect, since there are so many. If people were happier overall, they wouldn't feel so desperate to have any specific holiday plans work out.

Says the guy who overpaid to go on the same rollercoaster he's been on a bunch of times. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bm7 on December 24, 2022, 09:58:24 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.
How many holidays a year does the average person celebrate? Certainly less than 100. The only ones my family celebrate every year are New Years, Easter, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on December 25, 2022, 01:46:06 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 24, 2022, 07:54:55 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.
Let people enjoy things.
Who is stopping anyone from enjoying anything?

Honestly I would agree that conventional holidays are overrated - but yearly traditions, which are often associated with holidays, are underrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2022, 01:51:25 PM
Quote from: thspfc on December 25, 2022, 01:46:06 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 24, 2022, 07:54:55 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.
Let people enjoy things.
Who is stopping anyone from enjoying anything?

Honestly I would agree that conventional holidays are overrated - but yearly traditions, which are often associated with holidays, are underrated.

I'd be happy if I can ruin a couple things MMM enjoys given all his smug comments on this forum.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2022, 02:18:05 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 25, 2022, 01:59:29 PM
  https://images.app.goo.gl/k41eXdGaj8uBcnUK6 

Yes, the smug man-child who lives with his parents on Long Island has the answers for all.  Look to him, for he knows what will make you happy and will tell you what you ought not celebrate.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on December 25, 2022, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: bm7 on December 24, 2022, 09:58:24 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.
How many holidays a year does the average person celebrate? Certainly less than 100. The only ones my family celebrate every year are New Years, Easter, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

FEDERAL Holidays -- the ones where the local, state and national governments get the day off, but not the rest of the work force -- that's overrated!   And it happens about 5 or 6 times a year...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2022, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on December 25, 2022, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: bm7 on December 24, 2022, 09:58:24 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.
How many holidays a year does the average person celebrate? Certainly less than 100. The only ones my family celebrate every year are New Years, Easter, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

FEDERAL Holidays -- the ones where the local, state and national governments get the day off, but not the rest of the work force -- that's overrated!   And it happens about 5 or 6 times a year...

Unless of course you work for one of those agencies that celebrates Federal Holidays.  There are several of the non-name brand Federal holidays which hold the most underrated value for trips to places usually mobbed by normal tourists.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Flint1979 on December 25, 2022, 02:55:23 PM
Christmas is overrated. I can't wait for it to be over with for the year.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on December 25, 2022, 03:31:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2022, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on December 25, 2022, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: bm7 on December 24, 2022, 09:58:24 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.
How many holidays a year does the average person celebrate? Certainly less than 100. The only ones my family celebrate every year are New Years, Easter, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

FEDERAL Holidays -- the ones where the local, state and national governments get the day off, but not the rest of the work force -- that's overrated!   And it happens about 5 or 6 times a year...

Unless of course you work for one of those agencies that celebrates Federal Holidays.  There are several of the non-name brand Federal holidays which hold the most underrated value for trips to places usually mobbed by normal tourists.

I'm going to be interested in seeing how the new federal holiday on June 19 changes summer vacation patterns. It's just over two weeks before July 4, so someone who strategizes the use of leave time properly can get an extended vacation by using the two holidays as bookends. Consider that in 2023, June 19 is a Monday and July 4 is a Tuesday. Someone could take ten days of leave (June 20—23 and 26—30, plus Monday, July 3) yet go on vacation from June 18 through July 4.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on December 25, 2022, 04:05:01 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 25, 2022, 03:31:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2022, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on December 25, 2022, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: bm7 on December 24, 2022, 09:58:24 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.
How many holidays a year does the average person celebrate? Certainly less than 100. The only ones my family celebrate every year are New Years, Easter, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

FEDERAL Holidays -- the ones where the local, state and national governments get the day off, but not the rest of the work force -- that's overrated!   And it happens about 5 or 6 times a year...

Unless of course you work for one of those agencies that celebrates Federal Holidays.  There are several of the non-name brand Federal holidays which hold the most underrated value for trips to places usually mobbed by normal tourists.

I'm going to be interested in seeing how the new federal holiday on June 19 changes summer vacation patterns. It's just over two weeks before July 4, so someone who strategizes the use of leave time properly can get an extended vacation by using the two holidays as bookends. Consider that in 2023, June 19 is a Monday and July 4 is a Tuesday. Someone could take ten days of leave (June 20—23 and 26—30, plus Monday, July 3) yet go on vacation from June 18 through July 4.

Thank you!  As a retired person who can travel whenever I want, I will try to make travel plans that avoid those two and a half weeks ;)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2022, 04:07:27 PM
Quote from: kkt on December 25, 2022, 04:05:01 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 25, 2022, 03:31:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2022, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on December 25, 2022, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: bm7 on December 24, 2022, 09:58:24 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.
How many holidays a year does the average person celebrate? Certainly less than 100. The only ones my family celebrate every year are New Years, Easter, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

FEDERAL Holidays -- the ones where the local, state and national governments get the day off, but not the rest of the work force -- that's overrated!   And it happens about 5 or 6 times a year...

Unless of course you work for one of those agencies that celebrates Federal Holidays.  There are several of the non-name brand Federal holidays which hold the most underrated value for trips to places usually mobbed by normal tourists.

I'm going to be interested in seeing how the new federal holiday on June 19 changes summer vacation patterns. It's just over two weeks before July 4, so someone who strategizes the use of leave time properly can get an extended vacation by using the two holidays as bookends. Consider that in 2023, June 19 is a Monday and July 4 is a Tuesday. Someone could take ten days of leave (June 20—23 and 26—30, plus Monday, July 3) yet go on vacation from June 18 through July 4.

Thank you!  As a retired person who can travel whenever I want, I will try to make travel plans that avoid those two and a half weeks ;)

But that's part of my point.  Normals won't flock to a Monday off on June 19th as anything special, even if they have it off.  They'll all stick to their fourth of July holiday like usual.  I'm definitely parlaying June 19th as a three or possibly four-day weekend.  I usually do something similar with the likes of President's Day, Columbus Day and Veteran's Day.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on December 25, 2022, 04:46:20 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on December 25, 2022, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: bm7 on December 24, 2022, 09:58:24 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.
How many holidays a year does the average person celebrate? Certainly less than 100. The only ones my family celebrate every year are New Years, Easter, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

FEDERAL Holidays -- the ones where the local, state and national governments get the day off, but not the rest of the work force -- that's overrated!   And it happens about 5 or 6 times a year...

The feds take a lot more holidays than do state or local governments. Kentucky, by statute, observes 11 1/2 holidays per year -- Two for New Year's Day, MLK Day, Memorial Day, a half-day for Good Friday, Independence Day, Labor Day, Veterans Day, two for Thanksgiving and two for Christmas. That becomes 12 1/2 during a presidential election year. If a holiday is added, another is removed. Kentucky has tinkered with its state holidays since MLK Day was added -- it originally replaced Veterans Day, but then Veterans Day was added back and Presidents Day (Washington's Birthday) was removed. At one point Columbus Day was a state holiday but it was removed at some point.

Kentucky state government has not added Juneteenth to its list of state holidays. If it does, I'm not sure what holiday would be removed. Probably one of the New Year's holidays.

As for Christmas being overrated -- the commercialization, the lengthening of the season, the pressures, the demands on your time and your schedule and your finances, etc. -- I could do without that. When stores start putting out decorations before Labor Day, that's too early. All the hype and buildup and decorating and then the 25th is over, and "poof."

Maybe my view is jaded because I don't have kids.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on December 25, 2022, 05:02:03 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on December 25, 2022, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: bm7 on December 24, 2022, 09:58:24 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.
How many holidays a year does the average person celebrate? Certainly less than 100. The only ones my family celebrate every year are New Years, Easter, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

FEDERAL Holidays -- the ones where the local, state and national governments get the day off, but not the rest of the work force -- that's overrated!   And it happens about 5 or 6 times a year...

Why are you blaming the Feds? Why don't you blame the companies for not following the Fed's holiday schedule?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on December 25, 2022, 06:00:29 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2022, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on December 25, 2022, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: bm7 on December 24, 2022, 09:58:24 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.
How many holidays a year does the average person celebrate? Certainly less than 100. The only ones my family celebrate every year are New Years, Easter, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

FEDERAL Holidays -- the ones where the local, state and national governments get the day off, but not the rest of the work force -- that's overrated!   And it happens about 5 or 6 times a year...

Unless of course you work for one of those agencies that celebrates Federal Holidays.  There are several of the non-name brand Federal holidays which hold the most underrated value for trips to places usually mobbed by normal tourists.
But if you live in/near DC, then leave town, because guess what? Nearly all of your neighbors have, say, Veterans' Day off as well!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2022, 06:18:00 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 25, 2022, 06:00:29 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 25, 2022, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on December 25, 2022, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: bm7 on December 24, 2022, 09:58:24 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.
How many holidays a year does the average person celebrate? Certainly less than 100. The only ones my family celebrate every year are New Years, Easter, Independence Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

FEDERAL Holidays -- the ones where the local, state and national governments get the day off, but not the rest of the work force -- that's overrated!   And it happens about 5 or 6 times a year...

Unless of course you work for one of those agencies that celebrates Federal Holidays.  There are several of the non-name brand Federal holidays which hold the most underrated value for trips to places usually mobbed by normal tourists.
But if you live in/near DC, then leave town, because guess what? Nearly all of your neighbors have, say, Veterans' Day off as well!

Ah, that's the hook though.  Despite being a Federal employee, I don't really live near a major center of Federal employment.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bulldog1979 on December 26, 2022, 09:34:44 AM
Walmart had 6 paid holidays when I worked there: New Year's Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day. The hotel where I work had the same listing and added MLK Day.

The State of Michigan has a few more public holidays: New Year's Day, MLK Day, President's Day, Memorial Day, Juneteenth, Independence Day, Labor Day, Veterans Day, Thanksgiving and the day after, Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and New Year's Eve. In even-numbered years, Election Day in November is also a holiday for a total of 13 days in odd years and 14 in even years.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on December 26, 2022, 10:39:52 AM
Illinois celebrates Pulaski Day (https://pantagraph.com/news/state-and-regional/what-is-casimir-pulaski-day-and-why-do-we-celebrate-it-in-illinois/article_1d85c6d1-5d46-5447-bb92-5042f3d7825f.html)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on December 26, 2022, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 25, 2022, 04:46:20 PM
The feds take a lot more holidays than do state or local governments. Kentucky, by statute, observes 11 1/2 holidays per year.

For the record, the feds have 11 holidays, to wit:

New Year's Day
Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr.
Washington's Birthday
Memorial Day
Juneteenth National Independence Day
Independence Day
Labor Day
Columbus Day
Veterans Day
Thanksgiving Day
Christmas Day
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on December 26, 2022, 04:30:01 PM
Quote from: skluth on December 26, 2022, 10:39:52 AM
Illinois celebrates Pulaski Day (https://pantagraph.com/news/state-and-regional/what-is-casimir-pulaski-day-and-why-do-we-celebrate-it-in-illinois/article_1d85c6d1-5d46-5447-bb92-5042f3d7825f.html)
MA celebrates Bunker Hill and Evacuation Days.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on December 27, 2022, 10:54:04 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.

This post is so dumb, it honestly feels like bait.

If you think Christmas is on the same level as something like Halloween or Presidents' Day, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Part of the issue with Christmas is that it's hyped up as early as November 1st. So by the time you get around to December 26, you are completely done with it. Contrast that to the liturgical calendar, where the true Christmas season goes for roughly 2 weeks, starting on December 25th (or 24th, I guess).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on December 27, 2022, 10:57:50 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on December 27, 2022, 10:54:04 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession.

This post is so dumb, it honestly feels like bait.

And yet, everyone feels the need to give bad ideas more fuel to fire up more bad ideas.

There's a kernel of truth to it, but more of a moment-of-blissful-perfection, rather than the natural vicissitudes of life. The original meaning of the word holiday was holy day, a point where we might ignore the difficulties and wants in life to rediscover the inner space of life, enjoy a bounty, or whatever makes one feel joy.

We need reflection points every so often; there's 365+ holidays in the sense that there's always a birthday, anniversary, or arbitrary date for something in history or lesson to be learned (or just an excuse to do something silly).

Quote from: LilianaUwU on December 24, 2022, 07:54:55 PM
Let people enjoy things.

Also, this.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 12:15:15 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on December 27, 2022, 10:54:04 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.

This post is so dumb, it honestly feels like bait.

If you think Christmas is on the same level as something like Halloween or Presidents' Day, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Part of the issue with Christmas is that it's hyped up as early as November 1st. So by the time you get around to December 26, you are completely done with it. Contrast that to the liturgical calendar, where the true Christmas season goes for roughly 2 weeks, starting on December 25th (or 24th, I guess).

Not Christmas specifically, but when too many holidays get mashed together in too short a period, and radio stations start playing the music 2 months in advance and a month after, it becomes annoying. The unhealthy obsession thing is a true fact from psychology. When people get their hopes up for one time of the year and then flights get canceled, or plans get foiled, it's much more disappointing than if they did that stuff on a more regular basis. It's like if something goes wrong on someone's birthday and instead of having the party another day, they don't because it's not the right day. Who cares? They should have it anyway and not miss out on the fun. And you aren't even done December 26th because New Years (which is the dumbest in my opinion).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:19:30 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 12:15:15 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on December 27, 2022, 10:54:04 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.

This post is so dumb, it honestly feels like bait.

If you think Christmas is on the same level as something like Halloween or Presidents' Day, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Part of the issue with Christmas is that it's hyped up as early as November 1st. So by the time you get around to December 26, you are completely done with it. Contrast that to the liturgical calendar, where the true Christmas season goes for roughly 2 weeks, starting on December 25th (or 24th, I guess).

Not Christmas specifically, but when too many holidays get mashed together in too short a period, and radio stations start playing the music 2 months in advance and a month after, it becomes annoying. The unhealthy obsession thing is a true fact from psychology. When people get their hopes up for one time of the year and then flights get canceled, or plans get foiled, it's much more disappointing than if they did that stuff on a more regular basis. It's like if something goes wrong on someone's birthday and instead of having the party another day, they don't because it's not the right day. Who cares? They should have it anyway and not miss out on the fun. And you aren't even done December 26th because New Years (which is the dumbest in my opinion).

You do realize Christmas technically goes past the 25th?  My wife lost her shit one year when I started taking decorations down before the Epiphany. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 12:28:55 PM
Doesn't explain why massive decorations go up and radio stations taken over in November. November isn't even the same season.

One funny thing about New Years though, is that it seems to make the REAL new years January 2nd, due to everyone being drunk and everything being closed and the day basically being lost into oblivion. I don't drink or stay up all night, I may stay up till midnight or 1 but I treat it as a normal day and even go joyriding in my car taking advantage of the low traffic levels.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on December 27, 2022, 12:34:43 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:19:30 PM
You do realize Christmas technically goes past the 25th?  My wife lost her shit one year when I started taking decorations down before the Epiphany. 

I saw a discussion earlier this month on another forum about when the Christmas season begins. My response: December 25. The four weeks prior that day are the Advent season.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 12:34:55 PM
It's called commercialization. To answer number one.

Bigger question is why is stations like Z88 in Orlando, which is very God oriented, is celebrating the season before it begins and not during it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 12:39:13 PM
95.5 "K-love" in NY is doing the same thing, and it sucks because their religious music is actually good. What would be wrong with just continuing to play it through the holidays. No reason to revert to same old holiday songs, when they have better Jesus music right there. Although they seem to have stopped that after the 25th.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 12:40:38 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2022, 12:34:43 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:19:30 PM
You do realize Christmas technically goes past the 25th?  My wife lost her shit one year when I started taking decorations down before the Epiphany. 

I saw a discussion earlier this month on another forum about when the Christmas season begins. My response: December 25. The four weeks prior that day are the Advent season.

That's about right. That is how the Catholics do it as well as some other churches.  Many Protestants think everyday is Easter and Christmas and think the Catholics are crazy for creating seasons. Therefore if Christmas got moved to July many denominations wouldn't even care if it did as long as you embrace yourself as saved is what really matters.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 12:42:01 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 12:39:13 PM
95.5 "K-love" in NY is doing the same thing, and it sucks because their religious music is actually good. What would be wrong with just continuing to play it through the holidays. No reason to revert to same old holiday songs, when they have better Jesus music right there. Although they seem to have stopped that after the 25th.

K Love you mean the one that's got that idiot Scott in the morning? The one who seems flaky as he seems to rather talk to women listeners then men?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:43:58 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2022, 12:34:43 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:19:30 PM
You do realize Christmas technically goes past the 25th?  My wife lost her shit one year when I started taking decorations down before the Epiphany. 

I saw a discussion earlier this month on another forum about when the Christmas season begins. My response: December 25. The four weeks prior that day are the Advent season.

Right, and to someone like my wife who also happens to be traditionally Catholic that actually means something to her.

Regarding MMM's statement about the emergency of decorations.  The change over usually occurs right as I'm taking Halloween decor down.  It's convenient for me to put the Christmas stuff up as the Halloween stuff goes back into storage, why work two days outside when I do everything at once?  Also, putting up the Christmas decor makes my wife happy given she enjoys the season.  This might actually shock the likes of MMM, but I actually do enjoy putting effort into things I know will make my wife happy. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 12:47:59 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:43:58 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2022, 12:34:43 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:19:30 PM
You do realize Christmas technically goes past the 25th?  My wife lost her shit one year when I started taking decorations down before the Epiphany. 

I saw a discussion earlier this month on another forum about when the Christmas season begins. My response: December 25. The four weeks prior that day are the Advent season.

Right, and to someone like my wife who also happens to be traditionally Catholic that actually means something to her.

Regarding MMM’s statement about the emergency of decorations.  The change over usually occurs right as I’m taking Halloween decor down.  It’s convenient for me to put the Christmas stuff up as the Halloween stuff goes back into storage, why work two days outside when I do everything at once?  Also, putting up the Christmas decor makes my wife happy given she enjoys the season.  This might actually shock the likes of MMM, but I actually do enjoy putting effort into things I know will make my wife happy. 
.

I got a friend named Allan who won’t go to a Christmas party before Christmas Day because he says it’s not right. He made his Knights of Columbus reschedule their party to January as he felt hypocritical having one during Advent.

He takes his Catholic beliefs to heart too much.  Then again he embraces the Pontiff especially now after Francis fired Pavone from the priesthood because Father Pavone endorses Trump, but at the same time voted for Trump because of one issue: Abortion.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:51:19 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 12:47:59 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:43:58 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2022, 12:34:43 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:19:30 PM
You do realize Christmas technically goes past the 25th?  My wife lost her shit one year when I started taking decorations down before the Epiphany. 

I saw a discussion earlier this month on another forum about when the Christmas season begins. My response: December 25. The four weeks prior that day are the Advent season.

Right, and to someone like my wife who also happens to be traditionally Catholic that actually means something to her.

Regarding MMM's statement about the emergency of decorations.  The change over usually occurs right as I'm taking Halloween decor down.  It's convenient for me to put the Christmas stuff up as the Halloween stuff goes back into storage, why work two days outside when I do everything at once?  Also, putting up the Christmas decor makes my wife happy given she enjoys the season.  This might actually shock the likes of MMM, but I actually do enjoy putting effort into things I know will make my wife happy. 
.

. I got a friend named Allan who won't go to a Christmas party before Christmas because he says it's not right.

He takes his Catholic beliefs to heart too much.  Then again he embraces the Pontiff especially now after Francis fired Pavone from the priesthood because Father Pavone endorses Trump, but voted for Trump because of one issue: Abortion.

My wife comes from a traditional Hispanic family.  Following Catholic traditions is just something she her and brothers grew up with.  That said, I don't think I've ever heard mention the Pope before.  Her political standings tend to be middle of the road or non-existent much like me.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 12:58:28 PM
No the Pope is usually not mentioned. However since John Paul died many who loved him, won't give his two succeeders credit like Van Roth fans of Van Halen not giving Sammy Hagar credit for his fine contributions to the band after Diamond Dave left.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 01:01:48 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 12:42:01 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 12:39:13 PM
95.5 "K-love" in NY is doing the same thing, and it sucks because their religious music is actually good. What would be wrong with just continuing to play it through the holidays. No reason to revert to same old holiday songs, when they have better Jesus music right there. Although they seem to have stopped that after the 25th.

K Love you mean the one that's got that idiot Scott in the morning? The one who seems flaky as he seems to rather talk to women listeners then men?

Who cares? I just like the songs.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on December 27, 2022, 01:03:36 PM
And then you have the 12 days of Christmas after Christmas.  It's all quite complicated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 01:04:48 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 01:01:48 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 12:42:01 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 12:39:13 PM
95.5 "K-love" in NY is doing the same thing, and it sucks because their religious music is actually good. What would be wrong with just continuing to play it through the holidays. No reason to revert to same old holiday songs, when they have better Jesus music right there. Although they seem to have stopped that after the 25th.

K Love you mean the one that’s got that idiot Scott in the morning? The one who seems flaky as he seems to rather talk to women listeners then men?

Who cares? I just like the songs.
No I’m not asking you to back me on my convictions of Scott W. Smith.  I’m asking is it part of the same K Love syndication that Is from California broadcasted throughout the US?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 01:11:18 PM
I don't know the people involved. I usually switch stations during commercials. I know the have talked to each other but I haven't heard many station call-ins.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 01:15:26 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 27, 2022, 01:03:36 PM
And then you have the 12 days of Christmas after Christmas.  It's all quite complicated.

Not really. Cause the holiday is both religious and secular.  Over the years people would shop during the month before Christmas for the gifts to place under their tree. The stores decorated to enhance the atmosphere for their shoppers that later became traditional for people. Over time people began to think the shopping season is Christmas and that became secular Christmas.

Also many denominations don't have seasons either. So that plays a big part. Only some like Catholics keep their tradition and say it's canon always, even though many Catholics don't follow their own rules.  Many Catholics believe in both Secular and Catholic Christmases together.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 01:16:41 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 01:11:18 PM
I don't know the people involved. I usually switch stations during commercials. I know the have talked to each other but I haven't heard many station call-ins.
You mean you haven't heard the DJs announce their names?  You haven't heard Scott say he's Scott between songs?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 01:16:51 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 12:58:28 PM
No the Pope is usually not mentioned. However since John Paul died many who loved him, won't give his two succeeders credit like Van Roth fans of Van Halen not giving Sammy Hagar credit for his fine contributions to the band after Diamond Dave left.

I'm a Protestant, but Van Hagar is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on December 27, 2022, 01:17:21 PM
One really cruddy thing about the scheduling of holidays is that for many, they're clustered during terrible weather months.

November -- Veterans Day and two days for Thanksgiving (and every four years, presidential election day).

December -- Two days for Christmas, and one day for New Year's (and every four years, gubernatorial inauguration day).

January -- One day for New Year's and MLK Day.

Then you have to wait until late May for Memorial Day, then July for Independence Day, then September for Labor Day, then until November when the Parade of Winter Holidays begins anew.

It would be nicer to have more holidays when the weather is warmer, and not have three-quarters of them concentrated into three months.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on December 27, 2022, 01:57:32 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 12:15:15 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on December 27, 2022, 10:54:04 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 24, 2022, 07:51:19 PM
Holidays in general are over-rated and an unhealthy obsession. If life was good enough that people could reasonably enjoy themselves more often, there wouldn't be such a desperate need for holidays. Plus, they lose meaning when there's 100+ of them every year.

This post is so dumb, it honestly feels like bait.

If you think Christmas is on the same level as something like Halloween or Presidents' Day, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Part of the issue with Christmas is that it's hyped up as early as November 1st. So by the time you get around to December 26, you are completely done with it. Contrast that to the liturgical calendar, where the true Christmas season goes for roughly 2 weeks, starting on December 25th (or 24th, I guess).

Not Christmas specifically, but when too many holidays get mashed together in too short a period, and radio stations start playing the music 2 months in advance and a month after, it becomes annoying. The unhealthy obsession thing is a true fact from psychology. When people get their hopes up for one time of the year and then flights get canceled, or plans get foiled, it's much more disappointing than if they did that stuff on a more regular basis. It's like if something goes wrong on someone's birthday and instead of having the party another day, they don't because it's not the right day. Who cares? They should have it anyway and not miss out on the fun. And you aren't even done December 26th because New Years (which is the dumbest in my opinion).

You're not talking about Christmas specifically, but what other holiday gets 2 months of music? What are you even saying anymore?

Also, there is a significance to doing things on the day. Even if it's just cultural. I got an earful from my mother when I suggested we "just do Mother's Day another weekend" because something else was going on.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 02:04:10 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 27, 2022, 01:17:21 PM
One really cruddy thing about the scheduling of holidays is that for many, they're clustered during terrible weather months.

November -- Veterans Day and two days for Thanksgiving (and every four years, presidential election day).

December -- Two days for Christmas, and one day for New Year's (and every four years, gubernatorial inauguration day).

January -- One day for New Year's and MLK Day.

Then you have to wait until late May for Memorial Day, then July for Independence Day, then September for Labor Day, then until November when the Parade of Winter Holidays begins anew.

It would be nicer to have more holidays when the weather is warmer, and not have three-quarters of them concentrated into three months.

Exactly, they should be more evenly distributed.

@JoePCool14, when holidays interfere too much with normal plans, they become problematic.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on December 27, 2022, 02:05:03 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on December 27, 2022, 01:57:32 PM
...

Also, there is a significance to doing things on the day. Even if it's just cultural. I got an earful from my mother when I suggested we "just do Mother's Day another weekend" because something else was going on.

On the other hand, sometimes that works out for the best. In 2019, we celebrated Father's Day a week early because my brother was in town on business, and it was a really good Father's Day–I made ribs and cornbread, we had good beer, and we all had a good time. It turned out to be the last time my brother saw our father up and about moving around before our father died a month later. So had we insisted on celebrating Father's Day on the "proper" day, that last great memory would never have been made.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on December 27, 2022, 02:11:53 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2022, 02:05:03 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on December 27, 2022, 01:57:32 PM
...

Also, there is a significance to doing things on the day. Even if it's just cultural. I got an earful from my mother when I suggested we "just do Mother's Day another weekend" because something else was going on.

On the other hand, sometimes that works out for the best. In 2019, we celebrated Father's Day a week early because my brother was in town on business, and it was a really good Father's Day–I made ribs and cornbread, we had good beer, and we all had a good time. It turned out to be the last time my brother saw our father up and about moving around before our father died a month later. So had we insisted on celebrating Father's Day on the "proper" day, that last great memory would never have been made.

I suppose doing it ahead of time is better than asking to do it late. I'm glad you were able to celebrate that one early.

Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 02:04:10 PM
@JoePCool14, when holidays interfere too much with normal plans, they become problematic.

?????

So no kid has ever wanted to take two weeks off of school or employees wanting to get a couple days of PTO? Or at the very least have a different routine than almost every other day of the year? What are you even saying???
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: elsmere241 on December 27, 2022, 02:21:39 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 27, 2022, 01:17:21 PM
One really cruddy thing about the scheduling of holidays is that for many, they're clustered during terrible weather months.

November -- Veterans Day and two days for Thanksgiving (and every four years, presidential election day).

December -- Two days for Christmas, and one day for New Year's (and every four years, gubernatorial inauguration day).

January -- One day for New Year's and MLK Day.

Then you have to wait until late May for Memorial Day, then July for Independence Day, then September for Labor Day, then until November when the Parade of Winter Holidays begins anew.

It would be nicer to have more holidays when the weather is warmer, and not have three-quarters of them concentrated into three months.

Through this year, I got the first Monday in February off.  We joked that it was "National Hangover Day" since it's usually the day after the Super Bowl.  In fact, it was Lincoln's birthday observed, so that we didn't have back-to-back Mondays off.  It's been dropped for 2023.

Also dropped is Columbus Day, previously observed on the second Monday in October - which happens to be the day Canadians observe Thanksgiving.

We do get Good Friday and Juneteenth off, and Election Day is every other year for us.  Can you tell I work for a county government?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on December 27, 2022, 02:33:30 PM
And there you also have the Orthodox Christian sects that still have not adopted Pope Gregory's corrected calendar and celebrate all of the holidays nearly a week after the rest of us.

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on December 27, 2022, 02:34:35 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 27, 2022, 02:33:30 PM
And there you also have the Orthodox Christian sects that still have now adopted Pope Gregory's corrected calendar and celebrate all of the holidays nearly a week after the rest of us.

Mike
When I lived in Russia, it was common for people to get time off to celebrate all four dates -- two from each calendar.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on December 27, 2022, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 27, 2022, 02:33:30 PM
And there you also have the Orthodox Christian sects that still have not adopted Pope Gregory's corrected calendar and celebrate all of the holidays nearly a week after the rest of us.

Mike
David Sedaris says the Greek Orthodox Church in particular does it so they can buy discounted candy for Easter.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on December 27, 2022, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 27, 2022, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 27, 2022, 02:33:30 PM
And there you also have the Orthodox Christian sects that still have not adopted Pope Gregory's corrected calendar and celebrate all of the holidays nearly a week after the rest of us.

Mike
David Sedaris says the Greek Orthodox Church in particular does it so they can buy discounted candy for Easter.

That's outstanding. I'm going to have to remember that line.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on December 27, 2022, 03:20:41 PM
Our family is doing Christmas this Friday. My sister-in-law now lives in Georgetown. We had thought about doing it the weekend before Christmas, since she had to work Christmas, but she was sick. She's off this weekend so we're doing it then.

For years, I had to do my dad's birthday on a day other than his actual birthday, due to my work schedule.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 03:39:15 PM
Quote from: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 01:16:51 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 12:58:28 PM
No the Pope is usually not mentioned. However since John Paul died many who loved him, won't give his two succeeders credit like Van Roth fans of Van Halen not giving Sammy Hagar credit for his fine contributions to the band after Diamond Dave left.

I'm a Protestant, but Van Hagar is overrated.
Never said he was. Just those who loved Dave were not at all given him a chance due to stubbornness.

Not saying I agree nor disagree with them. Just pointing out we as a culture don't like change. We hate to see people we like get replaced.  We are a stubborn race.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 03:49:00 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 27, 2022, 01:17:21 PM
One really cruddy thing about the scheduling of holidays is that for many, they're clustered during terrible weather months.

November -- Veterans Day and two days for Thanksgiving (and every four years, presidential election day).

December -- Two days for Christmas, and one day for New Year's (and every four years, gubernatorial inauguration day).

January -- One day for New Year's and MLK Day.

Then you have to wait until late May for Memorial Day, then July for Independence Day, then September for Labor Day, then until November when the Parade of Winter Holidays begins anew.

It would be nicer to have more holidays when the weather is warmer, and not have three-quarters of them concentrated into three months.

What gets me is over half the Christmas songs are not about Christmas, but about attributes of the Winter Season.

Let It Snow Let It Snow
Winter Wonderland
Sleigh Ride
Jingle Bells
I Saw Three Ships
Baby It's Cold Outside

None of these are about the virtues of Christmas. They're all about cold weather things. We relate the cold to December when in most places the cold weather lasts from November to May. Snow usually fell from January to March and very rarely did I have a White Christmas in New Jersey.

Yet the songs stop after Christmas Day.

Oh yes, and what does The Sound of Music have to do with Christmas? One of its tracks is used as a Christmas song.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 03:57:44 PM
And yet, even for Christmas music, they still cannot leave romantic/sexual inclinations out. When will music, ever stop using relationship/sexual themes every single time.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on December 27, 2022, 04:03:32 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2022, 12:34:43 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:19:30 PM
You do realize Christmas technically goes past the 25th?  My wife lost her shit one year when I started taking decorations down before the Epiphany. 

I saw a discussion earlier this month on another forum about when the Christmas season begins. My response: December 25. The four weeks prior that day are the Advent season.

While I agree, I should also add an asterisk by saying that Advent could be considered part of the Christmas cycle.

As for Christmas being overrated...  I love both Advent and Christmastide.  We put up the decorations on the Saturday evening before the first Sunday of Advent, and we leave them up until Epiphany.  This year, we're opening one gift on each of the 12 days of Christmas–a table game, a video game, a movie, a puzzle, something to do for fun together.  And we always leave one present till Epiphany and have a fancy holiday meal that day.  I lead family devotions, complete with singing and reading and worksheets and coloring pages.  I am definitely not anti-Christmas.  And yet I agree that it's overrated.  There is no reason that Christmas should be amped up to 500% the hype of any other holiday.  I'd rather that Easter, Thanksgiving, and Christmas were all basically on the same level as each other, but that's definitely not the way it is in reality.

Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 03:57:44 PM
And yet, even for Christmas music, they still cannot leave romantic/sexual inclinations out. When will music, ever stop using relationship/sexual themes every single time.

I told you, DON'T tell Alexa to play hip-hop Christmas music.  You just didn't listen, now, did you?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 04:05:59 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 03:57:44 PM
And yet, even for Christmas music, they still cannot leave romantic/sexual inclinations out. When will music, ever stop using relationship/sexual themes every single time.

. Where? What song or songs?

The only controversy I see with sex/ romance is in movies aired on a certain cable network. Hope your not confused.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on December 27, 2022, 04:19:03 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:43:58 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2022, 12:34:43 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:19:30 PM
You do realize Christmas technically goes past the 25th?  My wife lost her shit one year when I started taking decorations down before the Epiphany. 

I saw a discussion earlier this month on another forum about when the Christmas season begins. My response: December 25. The four weeks prior that day are the Advent season.

Right, and to someone like my wife who also happens to be traditionally Catholic that actually means something to her.

Hey, in Medieval times people used to (and in some countries people still do) go by a longer, forty-day, Christmas season–all the way to Candlemas on February 2.  They say it's bad luck to leave your decorations up past February 2, and... well, maybe someone deserves some bad luck if it's all still up at that point.   :-D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on December 27, 2022, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 03:57:44 PM
And yet, even for Christmas music, they still cannot leave romantic/sexual inclinations out. When will music, ever stop using relationship/sexual themes every single time.
Romantic/sexual themes have been inspiring composers of music for eons.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on December 27, 2022, 04:43:43 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 27, 2022, 04:19:03 PM
Hey, in Medieval times people used to (and in some countries people still do) go by a longer, forty-day, Christmas season–all the way to Candlemas on February 2.  They say it's bad luck to leave your decorations up past February 2, and... well, maybe someone deserves some bad luck if it's all still up at that point.   :-D

Doesn't really seem all that out of line. Liturgically, the Easter season is 50 days, so for Christmas to be 40 days makes some amount of sense. The Presentation in the Temple (which is what the observance on February 2 reflects) occurred 40 days after the birth of Christ, in keeping with Jewish custom at the time as set down in the book of Leviticus, and is the last major event in the Gospels' "infancy narrative" (unless you count the Finding in the Temple mentioned by Luke, but that was 12 years later).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on December 27, 2022, 05:02:17 PM
I only had a problem with music with romantic/sexual inclinations when I was a virgin.

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on December 27, 2022, 05:04:12 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 04:59:27 PM
Basic ones that just happen to involve a man and woman are ok, just not the extreme sexual ...

Man-goat analingus?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 05:15:40 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 27, 2022, 05:02:17 PM
I only had a problem with music with romantic/sexual inclinations when I was a virgin.

Just sayin'.

Something tells me our friend unironically wears a "virginity rocks"  shirt.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 05:31:13 PM
^^^

I just assumed he was a virgin given the whole living at home this far into his 20s thing.

Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 27, 2022, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 03:57:44 PM
And yet, even for Christmas music, they still cannot leave romantic/sexual inclinations out. When will music, ever stop using relationship/sexual themes every single time.

Romantic/sexual themes have been inspiring composers of music for eons.

Yeah, but it's getting too cliche, and even the themes themselves are getting shitty at their own internal level. Basic ones that just happen to involve a man and woman are ok, just not the extreme sexual overtones in basic rock/pop, All I'm saying is music shouldn't be turned into a form of audio-only porn.

Why just a man and a woman?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 06:07:51 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 05:57:08 PM
I'm happy to remain a virgin, the risks outweigh the pleasures of sex. I'll wait until we come out with holodecks. I prefer casual friendships over romantic relationships. However, as I said earlier, a counterweight on the passenger side if a car is a good idea on that windy weavy Pennsylvania turnpike!

Nice dodge, why is heterosexual oriented themes in music okay but other orientations are not?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 06:08:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 06:07:51 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 05:57:08 PM
I'm happy to remain a virgin, the risks outweigh the pleasures of sex. I'll wait until we come out with holodecks. I prefer casual friendships over romantic relationships. However, as I said earlier, a counterweight on the passenger side if a car is a good idea on that windy weavy Pennsylvania turnpike!

Nice dodge, why is heterosexual oriented themes in music okay but other orientations are not?

He probably eats at Chick Fil A.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on December 27, 2022, 06:37:01 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 27, 2022, 05:04:12 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 04:59:27 PM
Basic ones that just happen to involve a man and woman are ok, just not the extreme sexual ...

Man-goat analingus?

So they do celebrate Christmas in Alanland!

Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 05:57:08 PM
I'm happy to remain a virgin, the risks outweigh the pleasures of sex. I'll wait until we come out with holodecks. I prefer casual friendships over romantic relationships. However, as I said earlier, a counterweight on the passenger side if a car is a good idea on that windy weavy Pennsylvania turnpike!

And it lets you use the HOV-2 lanes.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: LilianaUwU on December 27, 2022, 06:38:00 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 05:31:13 PM
^^^

I just assumed he was a virgin given the whole living at home this far into his 20s thing.

Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 27, 2022, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 03:57:44 PM
And yet, even for Christmas music, they still cannot leave romantic/sexual inclinations out. When will music, ever stop using relationship/sexual themes every single time.

Romantic/sexual themes have been inspiring composers of music for eons.

Yeah, but it's getting too cliche, and even the themes themselves are getting shitty at their own internal level. Basic ones that just happen to involve a man and woman are ok, just not the extreme sexual overtones in basic rock/pop, All I'm saying is music shouldn't be turned into a form of audio-only porn.

Why just a man and a woman?

He got roasted too hard by a lesbian on Christmas Eve.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 06:40:14 PM
Quote
^^^

I just assumed he was a virgin given the whole living at home this far into his 20s thing.

My point was that he probably considers it a point of pride, not embarrassment, and he later replied as such. Which, whatever, you do you.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 06:44:40 PM
Quote from: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 06:40:14 PM
Quote
^^^

I just assumed he was a virgin given the whole living at home this far into his 20s thing.

My point was that he probably considers it a point of pride, not embarrassment, and he later replied as such. Which, whatever, you do you.

And yet seems to have issues with non-heterosexual relations.  I'm all for "you do you,"  but he's the one who shared his very particular thoughts on what he themes he thought was okay in music.  But then again, most of the issue with MMM is that he is forceful with his opinions about how life ought to be.  Forcing opinions on others sure opens the door to people asking questions back. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 06:49:04 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 06:44:40 PM
Quote from: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 06:40:14 PM
Quote
^^^

I just assumed he was a virgin given the whole living at home this far into his 20s thing.

My point was that he probably considers it a point of pride, not embarrassment, and he later replied as such. Which, whatever, you do you.

And yet seems to have issues with non-heterosexual relations.  I'm all for "you do you,"  but he's the one who shared his very particular thoughts on what he themes he thought was okay in music.  But then again, most of the issue with MMM is that he is forceful with his opinions about how life ought to be.  Forcing opinions on others sure opens the door to people asking questions back. 

MMM has a lot of counterparts as always you get over opinionated people in one place or another. Obviously he is no different than others but he just happens to be here and we're stuck with him.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Roadgeek Adam on December 27, 2022, 06:49:39 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 27, 2022, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 03:57:44 PM
And yet, even for Christmas music, they still cannot leave romantic/sexual inclinations out. When will music, ever stop using relationship/sexual themes every single time.
Romantic/sexual themes have been inspiring composers of music for eons.

Yeah, but it's getting too cliche, and even the themes themselves are getting shitty at their own internal level. Basic ones that just happen to involve a man and woman are ok, just not the extreme sexual overtones in basic rock/pop, All I'm saying is music shouldn't be turned into a form of audio-only porn.

.............
.............

What I want to say will get me but not you banned. If you have the views we think you do, keep then to yourself.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 06:55:28 PM
Be careful MMM, this forum has all cultures, religions, and sexual orientations. You don't want to walk over the line the slightest.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 07:13:03 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 07:04:15 PM
Quote from: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 06:40:14 PM
Quote
^^^

I just assumed he was a virgin given the whole living at home this far into his 20s thing.

My point was that he probably considers it a point of pride, not embarrassment, and he later replied as such. Which, whatever, you do you.

It's neither. It's a personal preference. This human obsession with sex as a status symbol is ridiculous. It's not like you can't just go hook up on MilfMe, it's not much of an achievement. I'm not forcing my opinions, that's just me.

(https://preview.redd.it/ovdpxj63ykd91.png?auto=webp&s=98d4e65c11c4edb1ae02fdcce0c2358c1bad39bf)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Roadgeek Adam on December 27, 2022, 07:23:03 PM
Thank you Sir Lewis.

Also as someone with an admittedly active sex life with both genders, I don't see it as a status symbol. I just consider it part of who I am.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 07:23:41 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 07:04:15 PM
Quote from: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 06:40:14 PM
Quote
^^^

I just assumed he was a virgin given the whole living at home this far into his 20s thing.

My point was that he probably considers it a point of pride, not embarrassment, and he later replied as such. Which, whatever, you do you.

It's neither. It's a personal preference. This human obsession with sex as a status symbol is ridiculous. It's not like you can't just go hook up on MilfMe, it's not much of an achievement. I'm not forcing my opinions, that's just me.

Like your not with I-80 going to Providence or with winding roads needing to be replaced with tunnels?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 07:33:03 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 07:23:41 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 07:04:15 PM
Quote from: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 06:40:14 PM
Quote
^^^

I just assumed he was a virgin given the whole living at home this far into his 20s thing.

My point was that he probably considers it a point of pride, not embarrassment, and he later replied as such. Which, whatever, you do you.

It's neither. It's a personal preference. This human obsession with sex as a status symbol is ridiculous. It's not like you can't just go hook up on MilfMe, it's not much of an achievement. I'm not forcing my opinions, that's just me.

Like your not with I-80 going to Providence or with winding roads needing to be replaced with tunnels?

No, and that's ironic considering you were the one who suggested the Long Island Expressway in Queens become I-180 LMAO. And considering I agreed with your I-80 plan (not the 180 part though) how was that "forcing an opinion"? LOL
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 07:36:10 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 07:33:03 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 07:23:41 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 07:04:15 PM
Quote from: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 06:40:14 PM
Quote
^^^

I just assumed he was a virgin given the whole living at home this far into his 20s thing.

My point was that he probably considers it a point of pride, not embarrassment, and he later replied as such. Which, whatever, you do you.

It's neither. It's a personal preference. This human obsession with sex as a status symbol is ridiculous. It's not like you can't just go hook up on MilfMe, it's not much of an achievement. I'm not forcing my opinions, that's just me.

Like your not with I-80 going to Providence or with winding roads needing to be replaced with tunnels?

No, and that's ironic considering you were the one who suggested the Long Island Expressway in Queens become I-180 LMAO. And considering I agreed with your I-80 plan (not the 180 part though) how was that "forcing an opinion"? LOL

You kept up at it after others knocked it. I didn't post time after time that I-80 needs to go to Riverhead. I suggested it and moved on.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 08:12:49 PM
I only insist on important issues, like fitting the grid and filling it with coat-to-cost interstates. I am not going to start discussing fictional plans here as that's what I got the warning for. But I don't start posting endlessly about trivial matters.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on December 27, 2022, 08:15:52 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 08:12:49 PM
I only insist on important issues, like fitting the grid and filling it with coat-to-cost interstates. I am not going to start discussing fictional plans here as that's what I got the warning for. But I don't start posting endlessly about trivial matters.
The number of contradictions here would make Aristotle write another book.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on December 27, 2022, 08:57:55 PM
Pikachu is overrated. There are plenty of Pokémon that are more adorable and less obnoxious.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: vdeane on December 27, 2022, 09:04:16 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 07:04:15 PM
Quote from: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 06:40:14 PM
Quote
^^^

I just assumed he was a virgin given the whole living at home this far into his 20s thing.

My point was that he probably considers it a point of pride, not embarrassment, and he later replied as such. Which, whatever, you do you.

It's neither. It's a personal preference. This human obsession with sex as a status symbol is ridiculous. It's not like you can't just go hook up on MilfMe, it's not much of an achievement. I'm not forcing my opinions, that's just me.
Let's appreciate that MilfMe is a real site, and not only did MMM know it despite being an out and proud virgin, it was the site he suggested, despite there being many more mainstream options.  Anything you'd like to tell us? ;-)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 09:10:50 PM
Quote from: vdeane on December 27, 2022, 09:04:16 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 07:04:15 PM
Quote from: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 06:40:14 PM
Quote
^^^

I just assumed he was a virgin given the whole living at home this far into his 20s thing.

My point was that he probably considers it a point of pride, not embarrassment, and he later replied as such. Which, whatever, you do you.

It's neither. It's a personal preference. This human obsession with sex as a status symbol is ridiculous. It's not like you can't just go hook up on MilfMe, it's not much of an achievement. I'm not forcing my opinions, that's just me.
Let's appreciate that MilfMe is a real site, and not only did MMM know it despite being an out and proud virgin, it was the site he suggested, despite there being many more mainstream options.  Anything you'd like to tell us? ;-)

I mean hey, when I was MMM's age I certainly can say that I would have found a certain appeal to the premise the page he cited. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: LilianaUwU on December 27, 2022, 09:17:18 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 07:04:15 PM
Quote from: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 06:40:14 PM
Quote
^^^

I just assumed he was a virgin given the whole living at home this far into his 20s thing.

My point was that he probably considers it a point of pride, not embarrassment, and he later replied as such. Which, whatever, you do you.

It's neither. It's a personal preference. This human obsession with sex as a status symbol is ridiculous. It's not like you can't just go hook up on MilfMe, it's not much of an achievement. I'm not forcing my opinions, that's just me.

(https://i.imgur.com/BQbdt7K.jpeg)

(I gotta find another similar reaction picture, I'm approaching SPUI's *yawn* in terms of adding nothing to the conversation.)

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 27, 2022, 08:57:55 PM
Pikachu is overrated. There are plenty of Pokémon that are more adorable and less obnoxious.
Speaking of Pokémon...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 09:40:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 27, 2022, 08:57:55 PM
Pikachu is overrated. There are plenty of Pokémon that are more adorable and less obnoxious.

Totally agree, and lots of those other Pokemon are more useful as well. There's lots of uproar about the next anime series retiring the Ash and Pikachu characters, but I think it's long overdue.

Quote
(I gotta find another similar reaction picture, I'm approaching SPUI's *yawn* in terms of adding nothing to the conversation.)

I've started to use that Lewis Hamilton photo I posted upthread. I have a cropped version without Max Verstappen in it on my phone, but I haven't uploaded it anywhere else.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Roadgeek Adam on December 27, 2022, 09:43:50 PM
There is a GIF verison where it's just Lewis' head
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Molandfreak on December 27, 2022, 09:44:43 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 27, 2022, 08:57:55 PM
Pikachu is overrated. There are plenty of Pokémon that are more adorable and less obnoxious.
The original "fat Pikachu"  from R/B/Y was way more adorable than the version they started using based on the anime.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on December 27, 2022, 09:56:43 PM
This thread is moving so fast, I can barely keep up.  :wow:

Ok, so I actually kind of agree with MMM when it comes to lyrics in music. Romance in songs... yeah, that's always going to be a thing. Love is one of (if not THE) strongest emotion someone can have, so it makes sense to write songs about it. It's also incredibly profitable, since just about everyone desires a relationship. That's why so many love songs are written and promoted. But when it starts being about intercourse itself, even in innuendo only, it's too much. Just makes me hot and bothered when listening and I don't want that. Call me a "prude", I literally don't care.  :-D  And then some songs are basically audio-porn (perfect example: W.A.P.).

Quote from: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 03:49:00 PM
I Saw Three Ships

I saw three ships come sailing in
On Christmas day, on Christmas day
I saw three ships come sailing in
On Christmas day in the morning

So yes, that song does have to do with Christmas.

Also, Baby, It's Cold Outside is an annoying, over-played song.

Quote from: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 07:13:03 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/ovdpxj63ykd91.png?auto=webp&s=98d4e65c11c4edb1ae02fdcce0c2358c1bad39bf)

Max is the one sitting just here, laughing at the insanity of this thread.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on December 27, 2022, 10:08:59 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 12:28:55 PM
Doesn't explain why massive decorations go up and radio stations taken over in November. November isn't even the same season.

One funny thing about New Years though, is that it seems to make the REAL new years January 2nd, due to everyone being drunk and everything being closed and the day basically being lost into oblivion. I don't drink or stay up all night, I may stay up till midnight or 1 but I treat it as a normal day and even go joyriding in my car taking advantage of the low traffic levels.

That's really a problem with the radio stations and the shopkeepers for commercializing Christmas and starting much too early.

I used to know someone who did shop windows for Nordstrom, which practically alone among large retailers did NOT put up Chrismas displays until after Thanksgiving.  Unfortunately, it meant my friend never got to celebrate Thanksgiving because she was always at Nordstrom doing their shop windows so they would be ready the Friday after Thanksgiving.  It's hard to win, sometimes.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Molandfreak on December 27, 2022, 10:43:06 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkU8DCoUEAAr9Uy?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on December 27, 2022, 10:44:58 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 03:49:00 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 27, 2022, 01:17:21 PM
One really cruddy thing about the scheduling of holidays is that for many, they're clustered during terrible weather months.

November -- Veterans Day and two days for Thanksgiving (and every four years, presidential election day).

December -- Two days for Christmas, and one day for New Year's (and every four years, gubernatorial inauguration day).

January -- One day for New Year's and MLK Day.

Then you have to wait until late May for Memorial Day, then July for Independence Day, then September for Labor Day, then until November when the Parade of Winter Holidays begins anew.

It would be nicer to have more holidays when the weather is warmer, and not have three-quarters of them concentrated into three months.

What gets me is over half the Christmas songs are not about Christmas, but about attributes of the Winter Season.

Let It Snow Let It Snow
Winter Wonderland
Sleigh Ride
Jingle Bells
I Saw Three Ships
Baby It's Cold Outside

None of these are about the virtues of Christmas. They're all about cold weather things. We relate the cold to December when in most places the cold weather lasts from November to May. Snow usually fell from January to March and very rarely did I have a White Christmas in New Jersey.

Yet the songs stop after Christmas Day.

Oh yes, and what does The Sound of Music have to do with Christmas? One of its tracks is used as a Christmas song.

"I Saw Three Ships" is all about Christmas!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on December 27, 2022, 10:50:47 PM
Quote from: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 09:40:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 27, 2022, 08:57:55 PM
Pikachu is overrated. There are plenty of Pokémon that are more adorable and less obnoxious.

Totally agree, and lots of those other Pokemon are more useful as well. There's lots of uproar about the next anime series retiring the Ash and Pikachu characters, but I think it's long overdue.

Quote
(I gotta find another similar reaction picture, I'm approaching SPUI's *yawn* in terms of adding nothing to the conversation.)

I've started to use that Lewis Hamilton photo I posted upthread. I have a cropped version without Max Verstappen in it on my phone, but I haven't uploaded it anywhere else.

Oh, Ash finally Caught 'Em All and can retire?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 11:14:20 PM
Well I remember when the Salvation Army started 5heir bells and bucket drop in the stores AFTER Thanksgiving. It would give other charities the chance to stand in front of the stores  before Thanksgiving raising their money for Christmas without competition.

Sadly one year when my Knights of Columbus  council decided to do our Russel Home Drive in front of Publix before the Holiday began to avoid sharing the doorway with the Salvation Army like we had in previous years to gain more donations.  No such luck as the Salvation Army was there before Thanksgiving and we had to get the leftovers again.

Apparently even the Salvation Army moved along with the general perspective of the Christmas season as well.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 11:15:54 PM
Quote from: kkt on December 27, 2022, 10:50:47 PM
Quote from: Takumi on December 27, 2022, 09:40:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 27, 2022, 08:57:55 PM
Pikachu is overrated. There are plenty of Pokémon that are more adorable and less obnoxious.

Totally agree, and lots of those other Pokemon are more useful as well. There's lots of uproar about the next anime series retiring the Ash and Pikachu characters, but I think it's long overdue.

Quote
(I gotta find another similar reaction picture, I'm approaching SPUI's *yawn* in terms of adding nothing to the conversation.)

I've started to use that Lewis Hamilton photo I posted upthread. I have a cropped version without Max Verstappen in it on my phone, but I haven't uploaded it anywhere else.

Oh, Ash finally Caught 'Em All and can retire?


He won the world championship, so I guess.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: LilianaUwU on December 27, 2022, 11:16:56 PM
As a trans woman, Gardevoir is transition goals.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on December 28, 2022, 10:46:20 AM
Quote from: kphoger on December 27, 2022, 05:04:12 PM

Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 04:59:27 PM
Basic ones that just happen to involve a man and woman are ok, just not the extreme sexual ...

Man-goat analingus?

Come on, guys!  I left that big chunk of nice, juicy bait!  And nobody took it!

https://i.imgur.com/Jv040.jpg
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on December 28, 2022, 12:34:20 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 28, 2022, 10:46:20 AMCome on, guys!  I left that big chunk of nice, juicy bait!  And nobody took it!

https://i.imgur.com/Jv040.jpg

It's been done before--years and years ago I posted a photo (probably still available through Wikimedia Commons) of a classical-era sculpture of a satyr and nymph in sexual congress.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on December 28, 2022, 12:47:34 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 28, 2022, 12:34:20 PM

Quote from: kphoger on December 28, 2022, 10:46:20 AM
Come on, guys!  I left that big chunk of nice, juicy bait!  And nobody took it!

https://i.imgur.com/Jv040.jpg

It's been done before--years and years ago I posted a photo (probably still available through Wikimedia Commons) of a classical-era sculpture of a satyr and nymph in sexual congress.

Of course it's been done before:  https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7720.msg184405#msg184405
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on December 28, 2022, 03:48:49 PM
As far as the most hated Christmas songs this year, I heard a part of Mariah Scarey's "All I Want For Chrismas Is You", but luckily, no exposure of "Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer".

And since I only heard non-George Michael renditions of "Last Christmas", I also avoided Whamageddon.

I did encounter one 'Ch Ch Ch Chia' Pet ad on TV.  I'm still waiting for them to make a Chia Elvis with sideburns that grow...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on December 28, 2022, 03:52:06 PM
If nobody mentions "Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer" again maybe in a few years everybody will forget it ever existed and it will fade into well-deserved obscurity.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on December 28, 2022, 03:54:58 PM
Quote from: kkt on December 28, 2022, 03:52:06 PM
If nobody mentions "Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer" again maybe in a few years everybody will forget it ever existed and it will fade into well-deserved obscurity.

The next generation will listen to it, just to be ironic.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 28, 2022, 03:57:22 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 28, 2022, 03:54:58 PM
Quote from: kkt on December 28, 2022, 03:52:06 PM
If nobody mentions "Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer" again maybe in a few years everybody will forget it ever existed and it will fade into well-deserved obscurity.

The next generation will listen to it, just to be ironic.

Wasn't there a cartoon where Santa ended up abducting Grandma rather than reporting the collision to the proper authorities?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on December 28, 2022, 04:15:30 PM
I like Grandma Got Run Over By a Reindeer.

Somehow managed to avoid Whamageddon.  I usually hear it every year.

But yeah, sick of Mariah Carey.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on December 28, 2022, 07:23:34 PM
I feel like at this point I need to post this song, given some of the music discussion upthread:

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on December 29, 2022, 01:26:37 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 27, 2022, 03:49:00 PM
What gets me is over half the Christmas songs are not about Christmas, but about attributes of the Winter Season.

Let It Snow Let It Snow
Winter Wonderland
Sleigh Ride
Jingle Bells
I Saw Three Ships
Baby It's Cold Outside

None of these are about the virtues of Christmas. They're all about cold weather things. ... Oh yes, and what does The Sound of Music have to do with Christmas? One of its tracks is used as a Christmas song.

I assume you're talking about My Favorite Things.  I've always assumed it gets lumped in with Christmas songs because of the phrase 'brown paper packages tied up with strings'.  That could either be something you receive in the mail, or it could be a Christmas present, I suppose.

The one that always makes me scratch my head is Albert Hay Malotte's musical adaptation of The Lord's Prayer (https://youtu.be/eIh2gnlHP-U).  Other than the fact that the prayer itself is attributed to Jesus, I can't for the life of me figure out what it has to do with Christmas.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on December 29, 2022, 01:54:32 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 29, 2022, 01:26:37 PM
The one that always makes me scratch my head is Albert Hay Malotte's musical adaptation of The Lord's Prayer (https://youtu.be/eIh2gnlHP-U).  Other than the fact that the prayer itself is attributed to Jesus, I can't for the life of me figure out what it has to do with Christmas.

There's no other time of year with such a selection of seasonal music. If there's any time to slot that in there, it might as well be Christmas.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 29, 2022, 02:12:21 PM


This is another good one from 95.5 I heard recently.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on December 29, 2022, 04:56:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 29, 2022, 01:26:37 PM
I assume you're talking about My Favorite Things.  I've always assumed it gets lumped in with Christmas songs because of the phrase 'brown paper packages tied up with strings'.  That could either be something you receive in the mail, or it could be a Christmas present, I suppose.

Likewise, Vince Guaraldi's "Linus and Lucy", the Peanuts theme. Sure, it was in the Peanuts Christmas special...as well as every other Peanuts special for every other holiday. It's not Christmas music and shouldn't be played as such.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on December 29, 2022, 05:34:07 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 28, 2022, 07:23:34 PM
I feel like at this point I need to post this song, given some of the music discussion upthread:



I don't mind the song but I can't stand most of that album. Paradise by the Dashboard Light is both too long and annoying. You Took the Words Right Out of My Mouth is just annoying. And Two Out of Three Ain't Bad ranks as one of the dumbest songs I've ever heard.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 29, 2022, 05:42:15 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 29, 2022, 04:56:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 29, 2022, 01:26:37 PM
I assume you're talking about My Favorite Things.  I've always assumed it gets lumped in with Christmas songs because of the phrase 'brown paper packages tied up with strings'.  That could either be something you receive in the mail, or it could be a Christmas present, I suppose.

Likewise, Vince Guaraldi's "Linus and Lucy", the Peanuts theme. Sure, it was in the Peanuts Christmas special...as well as every other Peanuts special for every other holiday. It's not Christmas music and shouldn't be played as such.

Ave Maria, which is a song Catholics sing year round is lumped-in as a Christmas song.

In reality Ave Maria is The Hail Mary prayer Catholics say 53 times in a single rosary and in other instances. It’s just sung in Latin.


It’s also used in Funerals and sung on August 15 when the Assumption is celebrated.  It’s as Christmas as the Lords Prayer.

Also Let There Be Peace On Earth is a year round song about world peace but gets sometimes into the Christmas mix. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on December 29, 2022, 06:49:29 PM
How about car alarms? Not so much being forced upon us consumers, but the fact 98 percent of all alarms going off are accidental by its owner. Only 2 percent are the real deal.

In fact when someone does steal a car for the alarm to go off, we would think instead it's another careless person who set off that alarm.  Plus if we did pay attention to a person around an alarmed car, the thief might even say to us " Sorry my alarm went off, I'm having issues with it,"   and we would believe that person to be the owner.

Car alarms are not a working commodity IMO.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on December 29, 2022, 08:51:16 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 29, 2022, 04:56:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 29, 2022, 01:26:37 PM
I assume you're talking about My Favorite Things.  I've always assumed it gets lumped in with Christmas songs because of the phrase 'brown paper packages tied up with strings'.  That could either be something you receive in the mail, or it could be a Christmas present, I suppose.

Likewise, Vince Guaraldi's "Linus and Lucy", the Peanuts theme. Sure, it was in the Peanuts Christmas special...as well as every other Peanuts special for every other holiday. It's not Christmas music and shouldn't be played as such.
But, Charlie Brown Christmas was the first Peanuts holiday special, which is why it gets associated with Christmas.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 29, 2022, 08:54:05 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 29, 2022, 06:49:29 PM
How about car alarms? Not so much being forced upon us consumers, but the fact 98 percent of all alarms going off are accidental by its owner. Only 2 percent are the real deal.

In fact when someone does steal a car for the alarm to go off, we would think instead it's another careless person who set off that alarm.  Plus if we did pay attention to a person around an alarmed car, the thief might even say to us " Sorry my alarm went off, I'm having issues with it,"   and we would believe that person to be the owner.

Car alarms are not a working commodity IMO.

My car alarm goes off when I open the door manually instead of with the remote control on my key. Why does it do this?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on December 29, 2022, 08:57:13 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 29, 2022, 06:49:29 PM
How about car alarms? Not so much being forced upon us consumers, but the fact 98 percent of all alarms going off are accidental by its owner. Only 2 percent are the real deal.

In fact when someone does steal a car for the alarm to go off, we would think instead it's another careless person who set off that alarm.  Plus if we did pay attention to a person around an alarmed car, the thief might even say to us " Sorry my alarm went off, I'm having issues with it,"   and we would believe that person to be the owner.

Car alarms are not a working commodity IMO.

And what good is a car alarm if you are out of earshot  of it anyway?  With the exception of having the car in your driveway at home, the majority of the time you are deep inside a sound-insulated building, or at a trailhead and you are 1-2 miles away on your hike, for example.

Even with today's smartphones, how many car alarm systems can alert you on your phone?  That would be a good feature as you can check it out yourselft or alert someone of authority to check it out and make car alarms a little more practical.

It seems every time I go to a Walmart, there's always a car alarm going off as a false alarm.  That almost seems like a requirement at each store, along with someone cranking up loud bass-intensive music in their cars.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on December 29, 2022, 09:08:01 PM


Quote from: thenetwork on December 29, 2022, 08:57:13 PM

And what good is a car alarm if you are out of earshot  of it anyway?  With the exception of having the car in your driveway at home, the majority of the time you are deep inside a sound-insulated building, or at a trailhead and you are 1-2 miles away on your hike, for example.

Wut.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on December 29, 2022, 09:26:43 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 29, 2022, 08:54:05 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 29, 2022, 06:49:29 PM
How about car alarms? Not so much being forced upon us consumers, but the fact 98 percent of all alarms going off are accidental by its owner. Only 2 percent are the real deal.

In fact when someone does steal a car for the alarm to go off, we would think instead it's another careless person who set off that alarm.  Plus if we did pay attention to a person around an alarmed car, the thief might even say to us " Sorry my alarm went off, I'm having issues with it,"   and we would believe that person to be the owner.

Car alarms are not a working commodity IMO.

My car alarm goes off when I open the door manually instead of with the remote control on my key. Why does it do this?

Because the remote activates/deactivates the alarm.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on December 29, 2022, 09:31:39 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 29, 2022, 08:54:05 PMMy car alarm goes off when I open the door manually instead of with the remote control on my key. Why does it do this?

It shouldn't when the door is unlocked.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 29, 2022, 09:31:57 PM
But still, is there any way to turn that off since the battery is getting low on the key?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 29, 2022, 09:35:41 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2022, 09:08:01 PM


Quote from: thenetwork on December 29, 2022, 08:57:13 PM

And what good is a car alarm if you are out of earshot  of it anyway?  With the exception of having the car in your driveway at home, the majority of the time you are deep inside a sound-insulated building, or at a trailhead and you are 1-2 miles away on your hike, for example.

Wut.

Speaking from personal experience there is a good percentage of trailheads I've returned to that have had a car alarm going off.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on December 29, 2022, 09:43:37 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 29, 2022, 09:31:57 PMBut still, is there any way to turn that off since the battery is getting low on the key?

I have personally never encountered a car alarm system that sounds when an unlocked door is opened or when a door is unlocked using the key.  So the behavior you describe just sounds strange to me, though I don't claim to be fully up to date on current design (the youngest vehicle in the family fleet turns 14 this coming year).

You could look in the owner's manual and see if it outlines options for changing door lock and alarm system behavior.  You should certainly be able to unlock at least the driver's door using the key--I do this all the time with a key that has RKE controls built into the bow but whose battery has died.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 29, 2022, 09:46:16 PM
No, the doors were locked. I was unlocking them manually because the battery was dying. The alarm itself though doesn't go off until the door is opened (after being unlocked manually).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on December 29, 2022, 09:59:09 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 29, 2022, 09:46:16 PMNo, the doors were locked. I was unlocking them manually because the battery was dying. The alarm itself though doesn't go off until the door is opened (after being unlocked manually).

Yup.  This shouldn't be happening.  It doesn't when I unlock any of our vehicles manually.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on December 29, 2022, 10:47:12 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 29, 2022, 08:54:05 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 29, 2022, 06:49:29 PM
How about car alarms? Not so much being forced upon us consumers, but the fact 98 percent of all alarms going off are accidental by its owner. Only 2 percent are the real deal.

In fact when someone does steal a car for the alarm to go off, we would think instead it's another careless person who set off that alarm.  Plus if we did pay attention to a person around an alarmed car, the thief might even say to us " Sorry my alarm went off, I'm having issues with it,"   and we would believe that person to be the owner.

Car alarms are not a working commodity IMO.

My car alarm goes off when I open the door manually instead of with the remote control on my key. Why does it do this?

My car alarm goes off when the car is frosty, icy, or snowy.  I start the engine so the windows can start defrosting.  Then I wish to go outside and scrape it off with the scraper.  If I put the fob in my pocket, it sounds the alarm because I've obviously forgetten to turn the engine off and am walking away with it left on.  If I leave the fob on the dash, it sounds the alarm because I have obviously forgetten to take it with me.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on December 30, 2022, 12:49:16 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 29, 2022, 09:31:57 PM
But still, is there any way to turn that off since the battery is getting low on the key?

I've been having the same issue with my car (although I think it's just the unlock button wearing out, because it locks perfectly fine). My solution has just been to try to remember to lock it manually with the door lock button on the inside (I have to press it twice, because the first time it just dings instead of doing anything useful, which is annoying) so I can unlock it with the key without getting honked at.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on December 30, 2022, 07:41:53 AM
When my kids were in the band, the percussion section tried to see how many car alarms they could set off in the march through the parking lot from the school to the football field.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: elsmere241 on December 30, 2022, 09:13:06 AM
When I lived in Italy, almost all cars of significant size had alarms.  It wouldn't take much for one to be set off, only to set off all the others on the block.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on December 30, 2022, 09:16:45 AM
I used to have a 1997 Honda Accord with an aftermarket alarm–I got the car used when someone who had leased it returned it and the alarm was already installed. That alarm was ridiculously sensitive. Thunderstorms would set it off, which got extremely annoying late at night until I moved into a house with a garage.



Quote from: GaryV on December 30, 2022, 07:41:53 AM
When my kids were in the band, the percussion section tried to see how many car alarms they could set off in the march through the parking lot from the school to the football field.

You can find lots of videos on YouTube of car alarms near Heathrow going off when Concorde was departing for New York.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Otto Yamamoto on December 30, 2022, 09:51:01 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 10:42:16 AM
Bagels.
That's because you're not in  NYC.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 09:56:45 AM
Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on December 30, 2022, 09:51:01 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 10:42:16 AM
Bagels.
That's because you're not in NYC Montreal.

Fixed it for you.  :colorful:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 30, 2022, 10:08:25 AM
How about just...NYC

The worst shithole in the world with the most horrible traffic ever, 3x worse than LA and 10x worse than Boston or Chicago. Driving through the city to get to and from Long Island and Jersey/Pennsylvania is torture, and the traffic is starting to jut out deep into Long Island (now the Long Island expressway can be red on googlemaps all the way out to exit 64 thanks to the traffic diffusing from the city). No functional road system whatsoever. Outrageous tolls on even the most inefficient routes you could possibly take.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 10:12:57 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 30, 2022, 10:08:25 AM
How about just...NYC

The worst shithole in the world with the most horrible traffic ever, 3x worse than LA and 10x worse than Boston or Chicago. Driving through the city to get to and from Long Island and Jersey/Pennsylvania is torture, and the traffic is starting to jut out deep into Long Island (now the Long Island expressway can be red on googlemaps all the way out to exit 64 thanks to the traffic diffusing from the city). No functional road system whatsoever. Outrageous tolls on even the most inefficient routes you could possibly take.

Honestly, the last thing I want to do, even as a roadgeek, is drive in NYC. There is so much more amazing stuff to do there that doesn't require getting into a car. Take the LIRR into the city and enjoy.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: paulthemapguy on December 30, 2022, 10:16:28 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 10:12:57 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 30, 2022, 10:08:25 AM
How about just...NYC

The worst shithole in the world with the most horrible traffic ever, 3x worse than LA and 10x worse than Boston or Chicago. Driving through the city to get to and from Long Island and Jersey/Pennsylvania is torture, and the traffic is starting to jut out deep into Long Island (now the Long Island expressway can be red on googlemaps all the way out to exit 64 thanks to the traffic diffusing from the city). No functional road system whatsoever. Outrageous tolls on even the most inefficient routes you could possibly take.

Honestly, the last thing I want to do, even as a roadgeek, is drive in NYC. There is so much more amazing stuff to do there that doesn't require getting into a car. Take the LIRR into the city and enjoy.

Agreed.  The mistake is trying to drive a car in NYC.  Being a roadgeek is cool, but don't become so obsessed with roads that you forget every other mode of transportation that exists (too late, every American already has).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 30, 2022, 10:30:36 AM
You mispelled "LIAR", when it comes to reliable service. Also have fun making whatever half dozen connections you need to get to whatever part of the city that you are going, only to then walk 5-10 blocks after. Even strictly looking at the traffic, look on googlemaps live traffic at 5:30 pm EST and compare it to other major city rush hours in their respective times (8 pm here for LA), you never see that much black-red anywhere else, that extends in all directions up to 40 miles from the city. My personal record for going through the Holland tunnel recently was 1 hr 45 minutes. An interesting challenge is to try and find a road where the green lasts for at least 3 miles within city boundaries. At least enduring the traffic though, I don't have to worry about my subway car getting gassed and shot up by some guy just because it's Wednesday.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 7/8 on December 30, 2022, 10:33:07 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 09:56:45 AM
Quote from: Otto Yamamoto on December 30, 2022, 09:51:01 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2022, 10:42:16 AM
Bagels.
That's because you're not in NYC Montreal.

Fixed it for you.  :colorful:

Nice! My uncle would bring several dozen bags of St. Viateur bagels from Montreal when he visited us in Ontario. Now we found a grocery store in Guelph, ON (only half an hour away) that sells them. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 10:36:27 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 30, 2022, 10:30:36 AM
You mispelled "LIAR", when it comes to reliable service. Also have fun making whatever half dozen connections you need to get to whatever part of the city that you are going, only to then walk 5-10 blocks after. Even strictly looking at the traffic, look on googlemaps live traffic at 5:30 pm EST and compare it to other major city rush hours in their respective times (8 pm here for LA), you never see that much black-red anywhere else, that extends in all directions up to 40 miles from the city. My personal record for going through the Holland tunnel recently was 1 hr 45 minutes. An interesting challenge is to try and find a road where the green lasts for at least 3 miles within city boundaries. At least enduring the traffic though, I don't have to worry about my subway car getting gassed and shot up by some guy just because it's Wednesday.

Again, I'm never going to look at Google Maps to investigate NYC traffic because I'm never going to be driving in it with a time crunch. When I go to the city, I fly in, take the train into Manhattan (or right across the river in Jersey) and take the train where I need to go. If I need to take a cab somewhere in Manhattan, I give myself 30-45 minutes to get somewhere just because I'm allergic to being late. Part of being in a big city.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 7/8 on December 30, 2022, 10:42:41 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 27, 2022, 01:17:21 PM
One really cruddy thing about the scheduling of holidays is that for many, they're clustered during terrible weather months.

November -- Veterans Day and two days for Thanksgiving (and every four years, presidential election day).

December -- Two days for Christmas, and one day for New Year's (and every four years, gubernatorial inauguration day).

January -- One day for New Year's and MLK Day.

Then you have to wait until late May for Memorial Day, then July for Independence Day, then September for Labor Day, then until November when the Parade of Winter Holidays begins anew.

It would be nicer to have more holidays when the weather is warmer, and not have three-quarters of them concentrated into three months.

Yeah that's a crummy distribution. Ontario's seem to more evenly spread. My main complaint is that government employees get more days off than the private sector. Why shouldn't I get Easter Monday and Remembrance Day off, and the new federal National Day for Truth and Reconciliation Day?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on December 30, 2022, 10:57:19 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 30, 2022, 09:16:45 AM
I used to have a 1997 Honda Accord with an aftermarket alarm–I got the car used when someone who had leased it returned it and the alarm was already installed. That alarm was ridiculously sensitive. Thunderstorms would set it off, which got extremely annoying late at night until I moved into a house with a garage.



Quote from: GaryV on December 30, 2022, 07:41:53 AM
When my kids were in the band, the percussion section tried to see how many car alarms they could set off in the march through the parking lot from the school to the football field.

You can find lots of videos on YouTube of car alarms near Heathrow going off when Concorde was departing for New York.

Car Alarm going off in 1989: "someone call the police!"

Car Alarm going off in 1991: "eh, probably just an error"

Car Alarm going off in 1993: "no, that's a mockingbird"
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on December 30, 2022, 11:15:23 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 10:12:57 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 30, 2022, 10:08:25 AM
How about just...NYC

The worst shithole in the world with the most horrible traffic ever, 3x worse than LA and 10x worse than Boston or Chicago. Driving through the city to get to and from Long Island and Jersey/Pennsylvania is torture, and the traffic is starting to jut out deep into Long Island (now the Long Island expressway can be red on googlemaps all the way out to exit 64 thanks to the traffic diffusing from the city). No functional road system whatsoever. Outrageous tolls on even the most inefficient routes you could possibly take.

Honestly, the last thing I want to do, even as a roadgeek, is drive in NYC. There is so much more amazing stuff to do there that doesn't require getting into a car. Take the LIRR into the city and enjoy.
Take the LIRR?  That's a rather limiting way of getting into the City.  Driving to Long Island first? :D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 11:20:15 AM
Quote from: Rothman on December 30, 2022, 11:15:23 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 10:12:57 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 30, 2022, 10:08:25 AM
How about just...NYC

The worst shithole in the world with the most horrible traffic ever, 3x worse than LA and 10x worse than Boston or Chicago. Driving through the city to get to and from Long Island and Jersey/Pennsylvania is torture, and the traffic is starting to jut out deep into Long Island (now the Long Island expressway can be red on googlemaps all the way out to exit 64 thanks to the traffic diffusing from the city). No functional road system whatsoever. Outrageous tolls on even the most inefficient routes you could possibly take.

Honestly, the last thing I want to do, even as a roadgeek, is drive in NYC. There is so much more amazing stuff to do there that doesn't require getting into a car. Take the LIRR into the city and enjoy.
Take the LIRR?  That's a rather limiting way of getting into the City.  Driving to Long Island first? :D

Telling our resident MMMBopper what I would do if I were him of course. It did work well for me once when I flew Southwest into Islip.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on December 30, 2022, 11:25:01 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 30, 2022, 10:30:36 AM
You mispelled "LIAR", when it comes to reliable service. Also have fun making whatever half dozen connections you need to get to whatever part of the city that you are going, only to then walk 5-10 blocks after. Even strictly looking at the traffic, look on googlemaps live traffic at 5:30 pm EST and compare it to other major city rush hours in their respective times (8 pm here for LA), you never see that much black-red anywhere else, that extends in all directions up to 40 miles from the city. My personal record for going through the Holland tunnel recently was 1 hr 45 minutes. An interesting challenge is to try and find a road where the green lasts for at least 3 miles within city boundaries. At least enduring the traffic though, I don't have to worry about my subway car getting gassed and shot up by some guy just because it's Wednesday.

I sympathize that you have to go through NYC to go anywhere from Long Island. Somewhere in the AARoads Forum is a thread or five about building freeway connections from Long Island to either the NY mainland at the east end of I-287 or somewhere in Connecticut. I think some have even suggested a bridge from Breezy Point to Sandy Hook. I know somewhere I suggested a bridge-tunnel from Sunken Meadow State Park to somewhere near Bridgeport.

I believe for travel to/from Long Island the consensus is to take the Verrazano Narrows Bridge to get to New Jersey or Throngs Neck to get to upstate NY and NE. But any large city is going to be a pain to drive through. NYC may be the toughest, but all older US cities including Boston, Chicago, and SF are especially tough because their cores existed before the automobile. Even car-friendly cities like Los Angeles and Houston are nightmares to drive during the day.

FWIW, you're more likely to be in a car accident in NYC than be shot in the subway regardless of which day it is.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 11:55:02 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 29, 2022, 05:42:15 PM
Also Let There Be Peace On Earth is a year round song about world peace but gets sometimes into the Christmas mix. 

That makes sense, though.  World peace is straight out of the Nativity story.

Quote from: Luke 2:12—14
"And this will be a sign for you: you will find a babe wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger."

And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,

"Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased!"
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on December 30, 2022, 12:07:51 PM
(Car alarm goes off) "Where's my .50 cal machine cannon when I need it?!"

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:13:34 PM
Overnight trains are overrated.  You don't get to see the landscape, and it's hard to stay asleep.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 12:16:21 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:13:34 PM
Overnight trains are overrated.  You don't get to see the landscape, and it's hard to stay asleep.

Sometimes not seeing the landscape is a perk.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:26:07 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 12:16:21 PM

Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:13:34 PM
Overnight trains are overrated.  You don't get to see the landscape, and it's hard to stay asleep.

Sometimes not seeing the landscape is a perk.

Not unless I'm driving and the landscape is so mind-numbingly dull that darkness actually keeps me more alert.  Other than that, I'd rather look at the landscape.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on December 30, 2022, 06:13:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 11:55:02 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 29, 2022, 05:42:15 PM
Also Let There Be Peace On Earth is a year round song about world peace but gets sometimes into the Christmas mix. 

That makes sense, though.  World peace is straight out of the Nativity story.

Quote from: Luke 2:12—14
"And this will be a sign for you: you will find a babe wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger."

And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,

"Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased!"

Isn't it ironic, then, that the holiday season is probably the least peaceful time of most adults' lives?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on December 30, 2022, 07:24:05 PM
I say this remaining as politically neutral as possible -- Senator and Hose Rep Salaries are overrated.

Now they will get paid up to $212,000 a year, which I believe that amount does not include their travel allowances to and from their districts and the boatloads of other perks and benefits.  No wonder why there are career politicians on both sides of the aisles -- yet nothing seems to get done and their collective approval ratings are annually in the tank while the country's in Trillions of dollars in debt.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on December 30, 2022, 07:38:11 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:13:34 PM
Overnight trains are overrated.  You don't get to see the landscape, and it's hard to stay asleep.

Especially irritating when the lights are kept on. I've rode a couple trains and busses late at night here in Japan, and the lights barely dim. Even the late-night plane I flew, Peach Airlines, they kept the cabin lighting on (flight was from 21:50 to 23:30). At least dim some of the lights.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on December 30, 2022, 08:15:22 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on December 30, 2022, 07:24:05 PM
I say this remaining as politically neutral as possible -- Senator and Hose Rep Salaries are overrated.

Now they will get paid up to $212,000 a year, which I believe that amount does not include their travel allowances to and from their districts and the boatloads of other perks and benefits.  No wonder why there are career politicians on both sides of the aisles -- yet nothing seems to get done and their collective approval ratings are annually in the tank while the country's in Trillions of dollars in debt.

In Oklahoma, you can make more money as a casino cashier than as a state legislator. As a result, all of the state legislators are rich people who have a full time job doing something else and don't need the state rep salary. This meant that for a "normal" person like me, pursuing a career in politics was unappealing as it would have meant I would no longer have been able to make ends meet. It also means that because the state reps "don't really need the job", they don't really care whether they're doing a good job, either; losing re-election is embarrassing but it's not like it carries real consequences.

As an example of this mentality, there was an Oklahoma US House representative who got into it with constituents at a town hall over some position of his or another, with one angrily demanding that the House rep actually represent the views of the people that paid his salary. His reply was that it was "bullcrap" that the public paid his salary, because he owned a plumbing business that represented a larger share of his income than his Congressional salary does, and so he didn't particularly care what the constituent wanted. This representative was re-elected to his seat, and only left the House because he was elected to higher office.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on December 30, 2022, 09:26:13 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 30, 2022, 08:15:22 PMAs an example of this mentality, there was an Oklahoma US House representative who got into it with constituents at a town hall over some position of his or another, with one angrily demanding that the House rep actually represent the views of the people that paid his salary. His reply was that it was "bullcrap" that the public paid his salary, because he owned a plumbing business that represented a larger share of his income than his Congressional salary does, and so he didn't particularly care what the constituent wanted. This representative was re-elected to his seat, and only left the House because he was elected to higher office.

I knew who you were talking about, but not that he had moved up.  Ah, fooey.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on December 30, 2022, 10:20:29 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:13:34 PM
Overnight trains are overrated.  You don't get to see the landscape, and it's hard to stay asleep.

Or when your overnight train is scheduled to pass through the boring parts at night and the most scenic parts during the day, and it gets delayed for 11 hours in Omaha due to a broken-down train on a single-track section up ahead, so you end up crossing Nebraska in broad daylight and going through the Rockies and Glenwood Canyon in the middle of the night.

When my brother and I rode the California Zephyr, that happened to us. There was a couple from Europe on the train making a cross-country trip and they chose the Zephyr to go west instead of a northern route because they'd get to see the Rockies. Sorry 'bout their luck.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on December 31, 2022, 06:13:10 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 12:16:21 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:13:34 PM
Overnight trains are overrated.  You don't get to see the landscape, and it's hard to stay asleep.

Sometimes not seeing the landscape is a perk.

Overnight trains may be perfect for every trip east out of Denver
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Otto Yamamoto on January 01, 2023, 08:41:44 AM
Quote from: jlam on April 28, 2022, 01:02:59 PM
Coffee
Blasphemy
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: zachary_amaryllis on January 01, 2023, 08:43:53 AM
Quote from: kphoger on December 27, 2022, 05:04:12 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 27, 2022, 04:59:27 PM
Basic ones that just happen to involve a man and woman are ok, just not the extreme sexual ...

Man-goat analingus?
* copies to 'favorite forum quotes' *
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on January 02, 2023, 06:19:57 AM
Cars nowadays.  As before many of the features were extra options, that if you wanted them, you would work extra hard to achieve them. Of course you would feel honored to own therefore.

Today, all the options of yesterday are standard and are even forced upon us such as power windows.  As a former toll collector I can't tell you how many patrons would open their doors to pay a toll cause they couldn't afford to fix the windows.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on January 02, 2023, 07:20:48 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 02, 2023, 06:19:57 AM
As a former toll collector I can't tell you how many patrons would open their doors to pay a toll cause they couldn't afford to fix the windows.
Maybe if the tolls weren't so high ...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on January 02, 2023, 11:42:42 AM
Quote from: GaryV on January 02, 2023, 07:20:48 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 02, 2023, 06:19:57 AM
As a former toll collector I can't tell you how many patrons would open their doors to pay a toll cause they couldn't afford to fix the windows.
Maybe if the tolls weren't so high ...

That wouldn't be enough to fix a window. They cost plenty.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on January 02, 2023, 12:17:24 PM
As we all know, manual windows never go off track.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PM
The Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 02, 2023, 05:38:24 PM


Quote from: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PM
The Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.

Can't get that close to the falls otherwise.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 02, 2023, 05:41:59 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PM
The Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.

Niagara can be kind of a let down compared to some of the falls out west.  My wife didn't really care for how controlled and civilized the falls were.  I think she was envisioning some more along the lines to Vernal Falls or something.  She wanted to visit Niagara on our post-wedding trip, her impression was interesting for me to observe.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on January 02, 2023, 06:14:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 02, 2023, 05:41:59 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PM
The Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.

Niagara can be kind of a let down compared to some of the falls out west.  My wife didn't really care for how controlled and civilized the falls were.  I think she was envisioning some more along the lines to Vernal Falls or something.  She wanted to visit Niagara on our post-wedding trip, her impression was interesting for me to observe.

This is perhaps not too terribly surprising, given that the commercialization of Niagara Falls was one of the motivations for the legislation creating national parks.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 02, 2023, 06:34:53 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 02, 2023, 06:14:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 02, 2023, 05:41:59 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PM
The Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.

Niagara can be kind of a let down compared to some of the falls out west.  My wife didn't really care for how controlled and civilized the falls were.  I think she was envisioning some more along the lines to Vernal Falls or something.  She wanted to visit Niagara on our post-wedding trip, her impression was interesting for me to observe.

This is perhaps not too terribly surprising, given that the commercialization of Niagara Falls was one of the motivations for the legislation creating national parks.
I do wonder about the establishment of the state park.  I mean, the Maid of the Mist and ugly elevator are there, but I'd be surprised if the state park wasn't set up to prevent more commercial encroachment on the cliff.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on January 02, 2023, 06:47:39 PM
Well the Canada side is sure boomed since I was there last in 1996.  The tower that changed names that was once the Seagrams Tower to later be Minolta Tower, was a structure that stood out as it was one of two tall objects in that area. Now it's dwarfed and hardly noticeable among the tall hotels built next to it.

The park on the US side might of prevented that in Niagara Falls, NY but still that particular city has areas downtown to build including an American version to Skylon Tower, but hasn't.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on January 02, 2023, 06:55:37 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 02, 2023, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PMThe Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.

Can't get that close to the falls otherwise.

When I visited Niagara Falls in 2017, I didn't even consider doing the Maid of the Mist.  It is an AAA star/diamond-rated attraction, but I knew I wasn't interested in seeing the falls from that close up, let alone being part of a tour group, dealing with those thin plastic ponchos they hand out to keep you from getting soaked, and feeling trapped until I was once again on my own.  A foot trip over the Rainbow Bridge to see the falls from the Canadian side was enough for me.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 02, 2023, 08:30:44 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 02, 2023, 06:55:37 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 02, 2023, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PMThe Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.

Can't get that close to the falls otherwise.

When I visited Niagara Falls in 2017, I didn't even consider doing the Maid of the Mist.  It is an AAA star/diamond-rated attraction, but I knew I wasn't interested in seeing the falls from that close up, let alone being part of a tour group, dealing with those thin plastic ponchos they hand out to keep you from getting soaked, and feeling trapped until I was once again on my own.  A foot trip over the Rainbow Bridge to see the falls from the Canadian side was enough for me.
Well, of course, you gotta know your limitations.  Still, getting that close to the falls is a one-of-a-kind experience for those willing and able to take the opportunity.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on January 02, 2023, 10:18:36 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PM
The Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.

But the Niagara Whirlpool Jet boats are well worth the price of admission.  Rode those on two separate occasions, and both with the open-deck seating.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 02, 2023, 10:22:05 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PM
The Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.

If you did it once and thought it was overrated, why did you do it again?

I've done it from both countries.  It's a tourist attraction.  It's enjoyable. 

We also did the walk behind the falls on the Canadian side. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on January 02, 2023, 10:32:10 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 02, 2023, 10:22:05 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PM
The Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.

If you did it once and thought it was overrated, why did you do it again?

Given that he's 13, he probably didn't have much of a choice in the matter.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on January 02, 2023, 10:45:53 PM
Cave of the Winds >>> Maid of the Mist

(You can choose how soaked to get, do it at your own pace, and get much closer to an actual waterfall (Bridal Veil Valls) so it's a much more authentic and enjoyable experience.)


Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 02, 2023, 06:14:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 02, 2023, 05:41:59 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PM
The Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.

Niagara can be kind of a let down compared to some of the falls out west.  My wife didn't really care for how controlled and civilized the falls were.  I think she was envisioning some more along the lines to Vernal Falls or something.  She wanted to visit Niagara on our post-wedding trip, her impression was interesting for me to observe.

This is perhaps not too terribly surprising, given that the commercialization of Niagara Falls was one of the motivations for the legislation creating national parks.

I'm curious if this was the US side or the Canadian side? The views aren't quite as good from the US side but it's a lot less commercialized with more parkland and open space. The Canadian side is very urbanized and often frightfully crowded.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 02, 2023, 11:11:21 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 02, 2023, 10:45:53 PM
Cave of the Winds >>> Maid of the Mist

(You can choose how soaked to get, do it at your own pace, and get much closer to an actual waterfall (Bridal Veil Valls) so it's a much more authentic and enjoyable experience.)


Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 02, 2023, 06:14:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 02, 2023, 05:41:59 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PM
The Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.

Niagara can be kind of a let down compared to some of the falls out west.  My wife didn't really care for how controlled and civilized the falls were.  I think she was envisioning some more along the lines to Vernal Falls or something.  She wanted to visit Niagara on our post-wedding trip, her impression was interesting for me to observe.

This is perhaps not too terribly surprising, given that the commercialization of Niagara Falls was one of the motivations for the legislation creating national parks.

I'm curious if this was the US side or the Canadian side? The views aren't quite as good from the US side but it's a lot less commercialized with more parkland and open space. The Canadian side is very urbanized and often frightfully crowded.

I've been to both sides, my opinion holds the same regardless.  When I took my wife, it was on the Canadian side.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 03, 2023, 06:47:45 AM
In general, Canada has allowed much more commercialization in their parkland than the U.S.  The contrast can be especially stark between the national parks of each country.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on January 03, 2023, 07:16:35 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 02, 2023, 08:30:44 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 02, 2023, 06:55:37 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 02, 2023, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PMThe Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.

Can't get that close to the falls otherwise.

When I visited Niagara Falls in 2017, I didn't even consider doing the Maid of the Mist.  It is an AAA star/diamond-rated attraction, but I knew I wasn't interested in seeing the falls from that close up, let alone being part of a tour group, dealing with those thin plastic ponchos they hand out to keep you from getting soaked, and feeling trapped until I was once again on my own.  A foot trip over the Rainbow Bridge to see the falls from the Canadian side was enough for me.
Well, of course, you gotta know your limitations.  Still, getting that close to the falls is a one-of-a-kind experience for those willing and able to take the opportunity.

I enjoyed it. I think you know you're getting a crowded attraction when you go there, although there's probably far quieter times of year than June (when I went). I don't think my family waited more than 5-10 minutes to do any one particular thing, except to wait to board the Maid of the Mist so as to get a good spot, which was perhaps 15-20 minutes.

I don't have the same problems with crowds; honestly, I spend enough time alone. It was about half as crowded as I figured it would be. But everyone's different and just figure I'm a little more of an ambivert than I'd like to admit.

Interestingly, everyone told me for years that Niagara Falls Is Overrated And Disappointing for years, that it thankfully didn't match either expectation, so that's one of those pleasant surprises. Although the district around there is seriously bereft of dinner choices. Do I need to go again?...not really. It's still a distance away from me and there's more to see.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: elsmere241 on January 03, 2023, 09:39:20 AM
We went to the Canadian side last summer, but did not do Maid of the Mist or the Canadian equivalent because my wife was too tired.  She wants to go back and do one or the other - we'll probably do that after we check in to a hotel or something.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on January 03, 2023, 09:45:47 AM
NC with its turning all freeways into interstates and proposing new corridors.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on January 03, 2023, 11:45:31 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 30, 2022, 06:13:04 PM

Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 11:55:02 AM

Quote from: roadman65 on December 29, 2022, 05:42:15 PM
Also Let There Be Peace On Earth is a year round song about world peace but gets sometimes into the Christmas mix. 

That makes sense, though.  World peace is straight out of the Nativity story.

Quote from: Luke 2:12—14
"And this will be a sign for you: you will find a babe wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger."

And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,

"Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased!"

Isn't it ironic, then, that the holiday season is probably the least peaceful time of most adults' lives?

And why is that?  hmmm....  Oh yeah!  It's because Christmas is overrated.   :clap:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on January 03, 2023, 11:47:02 AM
Quote from: skluth on December 31, 2022, 06:13:10 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 12:16:21 PM

Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:13:34 PM
Overnight trains are overrated.  You don't get to see the landscape, and it's hard to stay asleep.

Sometimes not seeing the landscape is a perk.

Overnight trains may be perfect for every trip east out of Denver

Unless you're catching one from a point east of Denver.  I used to board at McCook (NE), and it was always in the god-awful middle of the night.  Same thing for the reverse trip, too (arriving).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 03, 2023, 09:45:47 AM
NC with its turning all freeways into interstates and proposing new corridors.

North Carolina's interstate grid is very incomplete, what's wrong with that?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 03, 2023, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 03, 2023, 09:45:47 AM
NC with its turning all freeways into interstates and proposing new corridors.

North Carolina's interstate grid is very incomplete, what's wrong with that?

What IS the point?  Mostly only grid perfectionists such as yourself want many of the corridors as Interstates. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 02:04:43 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 03, 2023, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 03, 2023, 09:45:47 AM
NC with its turning all freeways into interstates and proposing new corridors.

North Carolina's interstate grid is very incomplete, what's wrong with that?

What IS the point?  Mostly only grid perfectionists such as yourself want many of the corridors as Interstates.

I'm not trying to turn this into a fictional highway grid thread. I'm just saying it's not like North Carolina has alot of interstates. It's a very big state which very large gaps in the system. Even the freeways themselves have lots of gaps, regardless of whether they are designated or not.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 03, 2023, 02:12:17 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 02:04:43 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 03, 2023, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 03, 2023, 09:45:47 AM
NC with its turning all freeways into interstates and proposing new corridors.

North Carolina's interstate grid is very incomplete, what's wrong with that?

What IS the point?  Mostly only grid perfectionists such as yourself want many of the corridors as Interstates.

I'm not trying to turn this into a fictional highway grid thread. I'm just saying it's not like North Carolina has alot of interstates. It's a very big state which very large gaps in the system. Even the freeways themselves have lots of gaps, regardless of whether they are designated or not.

And they should all be Interstates because why?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 02:14:15 PM
Never said that. It doesn't matter either way. It's not like North Carolina has too many is all I'm saying. That doesn't mean it needs more.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 03, 2023, 02:16:52 PM
You literally just said that the Interstate grid of North Carolina wasn't complete.  Sounds like you have lots of ideas and really want to share them with us in this thread. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on January 03, 2023, 02:32:53 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 02:28:23 PM
... isn't overrated in my opinion. I have no personal opinion on it though.
Umm, do you listen to yourself or read what you are typing?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 03, 2023, 02:36:08 PM
Quote from: GaryV on January 03, 2023, 02:32:53 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 02:28:23 PM
... isn't overrated in my opinion. I have no personal opinion on it though.
Umm, do you listen to yourself or read what you are typing?

"I have no opinion about the opinion I just gave because I have no opinion."
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on January 03, 2023, 02:52:33 PM
Wait a minute, did MultiDozenMiler just say that, even if he thinks a certain route should be an Interstate, that doesn't actually mean it should be turned into an Interstate?  Well, there's a clear distinction between him and FritzOwl!



But anyway, who is it that's supposedly rating North Carolina too highly because of its new Interstate proposals?  Nobody on this forum, that's for sure.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on January 03, 2023, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 03, 2023, 09:45:47 AM
NC with its turning all freeways into interstates and proposing new corridors.

North Carolina's interstate grid is very incomplete, what's wrong with that?

Maybe that’s where you belong. You need to get off Long Island and move to North Carolina.  They do things your way.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 03:11:36 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 03, 2023, 02:36:08 PM
Quote from: GaryV on January 03, 2023, 02:32:53 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 02:28:23 PM
... isn't overrated in my opinion. I have no personal opinion on it though.
Umm, do you listen to yourself or read what you are typing?

"I have no opinion about the opinion I just gave because I have no opinion."

I don't have a personal opinion about whatever future plans should be done. But the opinion I have is that what they have done so far is not over-rated, and nor would any future plans if they were done. It's not rocket science.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 03:17:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 03, 2023, 02:52:33 PM
Wait a minute, did MultiDozenMiler just say that, even if he thinks a certain route should be an Interstate, that doesn't actually mean it should be turned into an Interstate?  Well, there's a clear distinction between him and FritzOwl!



But anyway, who is it that's supposedly rating North Carolina too highly because of its new Interstate proposals?  Nobody on this forum, that's for sure.

I usually only think many routes should become freeways, but not that all new freeways nor should become interstates. And while I care about the existing roads fitting the grid, I don't care about "using up" every number. Those are the 2 key differences.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on January 03, 2023, 05:08:25 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 03:11:36 PM
I don't have a personal opinion about whatever future plans should be done. But the opinion I have is that what they have done so far is not over-rated, and nor would any future plans if they were done. It's not rocket science.

I'm confused.  Are you saying that, no matter what future plans North Carolina, your preformed opinion is that they won't be overrated?  If so, then how is that not a personal opinion?  And if not, then that must mean you have a personal opinion about what sort of plan would or would not be overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on January 03, 2023, 10:33:58 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 03, 2023, 02:12:17 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 02:04:43 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 03, 2023, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 03, 2023, 09:45:47 AM
NC with its turning all freeways into interstates and proposing new corridors.

North Carolina's interstate grid is very incomplete, what's wrong with that?

What IS the point?  Mostly only grid perfectionists such as yourself want many of the corridors as Interstates.

I'm not trying to turn this into a fictional highway grid thread. I'm just saying it's not like North Carolina has alot of interstates. It's a very big state which very large gaps in the system. Even the freeways themselves have lots of gaps, regardless of whether they are designated or not.

And they should all be Interstates because why?

If it's a freeway, why not?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 03, 2023, 11:38:47 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 03, 2023, 10:33:58 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 03, 2023, 02:12:17 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 02:04:43 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 03, 2023, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 03, 2023, 09:45:47 AM
NC with its turning all freeways into interstates and proposing new corridors.

North Carolina's interstate grid is very incomplete, what's wrong with that?

What IS the point?  Mostly only grid perfectionists such as yourself want many of the corridors as Interstates.

I'm not trying to turn this into a fictional highway grid thread. I'm just saying it's not like North Carolina has alot of interstates. It's a very big state which very large gaps in the system. Even the freeways themselves have lots of gaps, regardless of whether they are designated or not.

And they should all be Interstates because why?

If it's a freeway, why not?

An explanation as to why requires an opinion.  As we already have established, MMM does not have an opinion about his opinion that he began to opine on.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on January 04, 2023, 08:40:11 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 03, 2023, 11:38:47 PM
An explanation as to why requires an opinion.  As we already have established, MMM does not have an opinion about his opinion that he began to opine on.

(https://y.yarn.co/43153ba2-da0d-4035-b0f8-5e259b361cbd_text.gif)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on January 04, 2023, 09:01:48 AM
I don't have an opinion about North Carolina's future interstate plans. But what they have done so far isn't over-rated. Simple enough?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on January 04, 2023, 10:36:07 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 03, 2023, 03:11:36 PM
But the opinion I have is that what they have done so far is not over-rated, and nor would any future plans if they were done. It's not rocket science.

Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on January 04, 2023, 09:01:48 AM
I don't have an opinion about North Carolina's future interstate plans. But what they have done so far isn't over-rated. Simple enough?

Yes, you do.  You've already opined that they're not overrated.  Even though you don't know what they are yet, you've already given your opinion about them.

Simple rocket science.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on January 07, 2023, 08:23:27 PM
John Calipari's coaching ability.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 07, 2023, 09:41:03 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 07, 2023, 08:23:27 PM
John Calipari's coaching ability.
I was coached by him in basketball.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Bruce on January 08, 2023, 03:03:59 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 30, 2022, 10:20:29 PMthey chose the Zephyr to go west instead of a northern route because they'd get to see the Rockies.

...But the Empire Builder also crosses the Rockies.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on January 08, 2023, 03:55:05 PM
Drifting, as in the motorsport.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on January 08, 2023, 05:01:16 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2023, 09:41:03 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 07, 2023, 08:23:27 PM
John Calipari's coaching ability.
I was coached by him in basketball.

Then why weren't you drafted by the NBA?  :-D

He seems to weigh success on the number of NBA draft choices he coaches, not the number of championships his teams win.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: wanderer2575 on January 08, 2023, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 02, 2023, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PM
The Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.

Can't get that close to the falls otherwise.

The Cave of the Winds tour on Goat Island takes you to a walking platform that leads right up to the bottom of a section of the American Falls.  I did it many years ago.  You definitely will feel the wind and get wet.  I think the experience is far superior to Maid of the Mist (although I concede I've not been on the latter) and the cost is about half as much.

I would never ride on Maid of the Mist.  Too many people packed on board to be able to see much of anything unless you're lucky enough to snag a spot right up against the rails, and nothing close to experiencing the falls as you do on Cave of the Winds.  Plus, frankly, the packed crowd wearing identical-colored raincoats looks a little too Dachau-like to me.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on January 08, 2023, 05:49:59 PM
Quote from: Takumi on January 08, 2023, 03:55:05 PM
Drifting, as in the motorsport.

The only motorsport that's less dangerous than ice skating, but just as subjective.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 08, 2023, 06:03:54 PM


Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 08, 2023, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 02, 2023, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PM
The Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.

Can't get that close to the falls otherwise.

The Cave of the Winds tour on Goat Island takes you to a walking platform that leads right up to the bottom of a section of the American Falls.  I did it many years ago.  You definitely will feel the wind and get wet.  I think the experience is far superior to Maid of the Mist (although I concede I've not been on the latter) and the cost is about half as much.

I would never ride on Maid of the Mist.  Too many people packed on board to be able to see much of anything unless you're lucky enough to snag a spot right up against the rails, and nothing close to experiencing the falls as you do on Cave of the Winds.  Plus, frankly, the packed crowd wearing identical-colored raincoats looks a little too Dachau-like to me.

Pfft.  Suit yourself, but there's nothing quite like being right at the bottom of both the American and Canadian Falls.  I get it that some people can't handle crowds (although they cram people into the Cave of the Winds as well...with matching rain gear).

And, comparing a tourist attraction to a concentration camp could be considered highly offensive (i.e., comparing getting a little wet on a boat to the atrocities at Dauchau diminishes the latter inappropriately).

Anyway, been on the Maid of the Mist a couple of times.  It's a unique experience that's not for everyone.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on January 08, 2023, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 02, 2023, 10:45:53 PM
Cave of the Winds >>> Maid of the Mist

(You can choose how soaked to get, do it at your own pace, and get much closer to an actual waterfall (Bridal Veil Valls) so it's a much more authentic and enjoyable experience.)

Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 08, 2023, 05:06:43 PMThe Cave of the Winds tour on Goat Island takes you to a walking platform that leads right up to the bottom of a section of the American Falls.  I did it many years ago.  You definitely will feel the wind and get wet.  I think the experience is far superior to Maid of the Mist (although I concede I've not been on the latter) and the cost is about half as much.

:cheers:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on January 08, 2023, 07:25:43 PM
Quote from: formulanone on January 08, 2023, 05:49:59 PM
Quote from: Takumi on January 08, 2023, 03:55:05 PM
Drifting, as in the motorsport.

The only motorsport thats's less dangerous than ice skating, but just as subjective.

Thanks, that's how I'm going to refer to it now. The ice skating of motorsports.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kirbykart on January 09, 2023, 08:07:16 AM
Quote from: webny99 on January 08, 2023, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 02, 2023, 10:45:53 PM
Cave of the Winds >>> Maid of the Mist

(You can choose how soaked to get, do it at your own pace, and get much closer to an actual waterfall (Bridal Veil Valls) so it's a much more authentic and enjoyable experience.)

Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 08, 2023, 05:06:43 PMThe Cave of the Winds tour on Goat Island takes you to a walking platform that leads right up to the bottom of a section of the American Falls.  I did it many years ago.  You definitely will feel the wind and get wet.  I think the experience is far superior to Maid of the Mist (although I concede I've not been on the latter) and the cost is about half as much.

:cheers:

Yes, Cave of the Winds is a lot better and you get a lot more wet.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: paulthemapguy on January 09, 2023, 09:38:34 AM
On that subject, naming a waterfall "Bridal Veil Falls." There must be 100 waterfalls with that name in the US alone lol
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Roadgeek Adam on January 09, 2023, 10:19:07 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on January 09, 2023, 09:38:34 AM
On that subject, naming a waterfall "Bridal Veil Falls." There must be 100 waterfalls with that name in the US alone lol

24 based on the Wikipedia disambiguation page. But I agree with you, that name is absurdly overused. The first one I always remembered as a kid was the one at Bushkill Falls in Lehman Twp, Pennsylvania.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 09, 2023, 10:32:41 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on January 09, 2023, 09:38:34 AM
On that subject, naming a waterfall "Bridal Veil Falls." There must be 100 waterfalls with that name in the US alone lol

Got the big name brand one about 100 minutes north of Fresno.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 09, 2023, 01:48:47 PM
Cheese pulls in food/restaurant reviews.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on January 09, 2023, 02:21:33 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 09, 2023, 01:48:47 PM
Cheese pulls in food/restaurant reviews.

Cue the slow motion fresh vegetables dancing through tap water and steam wafting from lethargically-flipped meats with mouth-watering spices flying about.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: wanderer2575 on January 10, 2023, 12:02:18 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 08, 2023, 06:03:54 PM


Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 08, 2023, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 02, 2023, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PM
The Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.

Can't get that close to the falls otherwise.

The Cave of the Winds tour on Goat Island takes you to a walking platform that leads right up to the bottom of a section of the American Falls.  I did it many years ago.  You definitely will feel the wind and get wet.  I think the experience is far superior to Maid of the Mist (although I concede I've not been on the latter) and the cost is about half as much.

I would never ride on Maid of the Mist.  Too many people packed on board to be able to see much of anything unless you're lucky enough to snag a spot right up against the rails, and nothing close to experiencing the falls as you do on Cave of the Winds.  Plus, frankly, the packed crowd wearing identical-colored raincoats looks a little too Dachau-like to me.

<snip>

And, comparing a tourist attraction to a concentration camp could be considered highly offensive (i.e., comparing getting a little wet on a boat to the atrocities at Dauchau diminishes the latter inappropriately).

That's how it looks like to me from a distance, and fact is that it rattles me.  Stop going out of your way to let your ignorance find things that offend you.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 10, 2023, 06:41:48 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 10, 2023, 12:02:18 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 08, 2023, 06:03:54 PM


Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 08, 2023, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 02, 2023, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 02, 2023, 05:25:24 PM
The Maid of the Mist at Niagara Falls. I've done it twice. It's overrated as hell.

Can't get that close to the falls otherwise.

The Cave of the Winds tour on Goat Island takes you to a walking platform that leads right up to the bottom of a section of the American Falls.  I did it many years ago.  You definitely will feel the wind and get wet.  I think the experience is far superior to Maid of the Mist (although I concede I've not been on the latter) and the cost is about half as much.

I would never ride on Maid of the Mist.  Too many people packed on board to be able to see much of anything unless you're lucky enough to snag a spot right up against the rails, and nothing close to experiencing the falls as you do on Cave of the Winds.  Plus, frankly, the packed crowd wearing identical-colored raincoats looks a little too Dachau-like to me.

<snip>

And, comparing a tourist attraction to a concentration camp could be considered highly offensive (i.e., comparing getting a little wet on a boat to the atrocities at Dauchau diminishes the latter inappropriately).

That's how it looks like to me from a distance, and fact is that it rattles me.  Stop going out of your way to let your ignorance find things that offend you.
I'm not sure you understand what "ignorance" means, but suit yourself.  All I was doing was warning you of possible consequences of the inappropriate comparison you made.  Can't stop you from doubling down on it, of course, so, shine on, you crazy diamond.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on January 10, 2023, 09:33:36 AM
That annoying whisper at the end of car ads. You know when the dealer don’t want you to know something, yet it fulfills the legal end of it informing us consumers the and, if, or buts of the deal. So they talk real soft and speed up the sentence so it’s been said despite you need to record it and playback slowly or listen several times.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hotdogPi on January 10, 2023, 09:36:24 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 10, 2023, 09:33:36 AM
That annoying whisper at the end of car ads. You know when the dealer don't want you to know something, yet it fulfills the legal end of it informing us consumers the and, if, or buts of the deal. So they talk real soft and speed up the sentence so it's been said despite you need to record it and playback slowly or listen several times.

This goes in the minor things that bother you thread (which you have already done), not this one. If nobody likes it, it's properly rated as bad, not overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on January 10, 2023, 09:45:11 AM
Weather Channel Jim Cantore is way overrated.

From always being at all the major weather occurrences to his voice being used in all the Weather on the 8's forecast segments.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was instrumental in the channel "naming" all the winter storms -- something that less that 10% of all other media outlets join in on when they talk about the same storms.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on January 10, 2023, 09:47:39 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 10, 2023, 09:36:24 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 10, 2023, 09:33:36 AM
That annoying whisper at the end of car ads. You know when the dealer don't want you to know something, yet it fulfills the legal end of it informing us consumers the and, if, or buts of the deal. So they talk real soft and speed up the sentence so it's been said despite you need to record it and playback slowly or listen several times.

This goes in the minor things that bother you thread (which you have already done), not this one. If nobody likes it, it's properly rated as bad, not overrated.

You didn't read it properly in the minor things thread. I was comparing someone else's statement to the effect of this scenario.

Therefore I didn't say it was minor, then changed my mind like your pointing out.  It's major to me that they get away with it daily.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on January 10, 2023, 11:34:36 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on January 10, 2023, 09:45:11 AM
Weather Channel Jim Cantore is way overrated.

From always being at all the major weather occurrences to his voice being used in all the Weather on the 8's forecast segments.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was instrumental in the channel "naming" all the winter storms -- something that less that 10% of all other media outlets join in on when they talk about the same storms.

Which reminds me, are they still doing the Local on the 8s? I remember it being a huge part of their programming, but I don't recall seeing it recently*.

edit: this was the voice I always associated with the Local on the 8s, not Cantore. Maybe that has changed lately:

https://youtu.be/sWZIJmfB-UU

* I didn't watch it much to begin with, and I don't have TWC where I am now either.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on January 10, 2023, 11:48:45 PM
The way that the TWC local forecasts work is that there's a computer, called a WeatherStar, that sits at the local cable headend and downloads weather data from NOAA. At a time ending in 8, it starts generating the forecast graphics and they get automatically spliced into the cable feed. There are several different versions of the WeatherStar unit, so the appearance of the local forecast can vary quite a bit in different media markets depending on which version the cable headend is running. Usually the smaller media markets are two or three versions behind, so you can see some ancient graphics if you happen to check TWC when you stay in a hotel in the middle of nowhere.

That video is an Intellistar 1, which was current in the 2000s and had narration by Alan Jackson. For the Intellistar 2, released in 2010, Jim Cantore recorded the narration. I'm not sure if they went back and patched Cantore's voice onto the Intellistar 1 at any point, or if they're still using Jackson's narration.

The really odd thing there is "Papa Was A Rolling Stone" as the music. TWC is supposed to play cheap-royalty smooth jazz from acts you've never heard of, damn it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on January 11, 2023, 12:01:25 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 10, 2023, 11:48:45 PM
That video is an Intellistar 1, which was current in the 2000s and had narration by Alan Jackson. For the Intellistar 2, released in 2010, Jim Cantore recorded the narration. I'm not sure if they went back and patched Cantore's voice onto the Intellistar 1 at any point, or if they're still using Jackson's narration.

Alan Jackson, huh. Never would have guessed.

Edit: I see it as Allen Jackson?

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 10, 2023, 11:48:45 PM
The really odd thing there is "Papa Was A Rolling Stone" as the music. TWC is supposed to play cheap-royalty smooth jazz from acts you've never heard of, damn it.

Very funny you'd mention that, because the song I've always associated with Lot8 was Layla. I heard it a ton back when I watched TWC a fair amount in the late 2000s/early 2010s:

https://youtu.be/shJFr01EivM
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 12:21:33 AM
I guess I just autocorrected s/Allen/Alan/ because Alanland permanently warped my brain.

That video is an IntelliStar 2, so I'm guessing that they decided to get more well-known music when it came in.

When I did the bulk of my TWC watching, it was the mid-90s, so the WeatherStar 4000 was current:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiG8bvKeqiw

Back then, probably the most well-known artist they'd use was Spyro Gyra, though they used "Linus and Lucy" by Vince Guaraldi sometimes.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on January 11, 2023, 12:25:56 AM
Speaking of the TWC, I know someone on here who calls it The Weather Entertainment Channel as he feels paid apps from Googleplay or The App Store do a better job than the talent on there.

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on January 11, 2023, 12:31:51 AM
Oh yes the famous Autocorrect that doesn't know how to spell or use correct grammar, that is the Algorithm that needs twerking.  That's why I told the two users on here that love to chastised bad spellers that they both should do their spelling and grammar preaching to them instead of users on this forum.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on January 11, 2023, 12:37:28 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 12:21:33 AM
I guess I just autocorrected s/Allen/Alan/ because Alanland permanently warped my brain.

That video is an IntelliStar 2, so I'm guessing that they decided to get more well-known music when it came in.

They definitely used it during the IntelliStar 1 period, this clip is from 2005.

To be fair, it's the only song I can remember from the good old days of Local on the 8s.

https://youtu.be/NJDn-RH9Ilc

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 12:21:33 AM
When I did the bulk of my TWC watching, it was the mid-90s, so the WeatherStar 4000 was current:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiG8bvKeqiw

Back then, probably the most well-known artist they'd use was Spyro Gyra, though they used "Linus and Lucy" by Vince Guaraldi sometimes.

Sounds like your interest in weather hit about five years sooner than it did me. I don't think I tuned into TWC (or any weather service) until I was about 10 or older.

Then again, if I grew up in tornado alley with all of it's crazy storms, I probably would developed the interest sooner!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 01:00:34 AM
Oh, the interest in weather was ongoing–it's just that in 1996 we moved to Goldsby, which had no cable coverage, so that was the end of me watching TWC. I just shifted to doing stuff like tracking storms with little paper markers on ODOT state maps.

If you have time to kill, it's fun chasing down videos of the WeatherStar 4000 on YouTube or wherever. Its configuration file seems to have been pretty fragile, so if someone misapplied an update or whatever it would come up with some comically buggy stuff. Some of it would actually reveal how the system worked (turns out while one slide is displayed, it's drawing the next one two layers down, so all it has to do to switch slides is rearrange the layers; this is revealed when a config error causes the orange-and-blue background layer not to draw). There's a neat series of videos on YouTube where a guy managed to get a hold of one and is working on restoring it, and he talks about how the hardware works and the difficulties in configuring it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 09:39:18 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 11, 2023, 12:31:51 AM
Oh yes the famous Autocorrect that doesn't know how to spell or use correct grammar, that is the Algorithm that needs twerking.

I see what you did there.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Big John on January 11, 2023, 10:14:34 AM
When TWC tries to be local, they use SR 172 or SR 29 for local highways.  SR is used for Georgia but not Wisconsin.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on January 11, 2023, 10:51:31 AM
Heh, I went through a phase of watching it for about an hour a day from the ages of 10-11. The graphics looked like this:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newscaststudio.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F08%2Fweather-channel-graphics-1989.jpg&hash=071e892f704010630fe46b6579cadd3ac371fa41)

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LaT17fgmJy8/hqdefault.jpg)

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 12:40:06 PM
coupons
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Bruce on January 11, 2023, 04:23:18 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 12:40:06 PM
coupons

Digital coupons are an amazing deal if you use them wisely, especially on goods that take a long time to expire. Can also net some unexpected treats as well.

Instant discounts are always better (e.g. those at Costco), but not as rewarding to find in the wild.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 11, 2023, 04:32:39 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 11, 2023, 04:23:18 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 12:40:06 PM
coupons

Digital coupons are an amazing deal if you use them wisely, especially on goods that take a long time to expire. Can also net some unexpected treats as well.

Instant discounts are always better (e.g. those at Costco), but not as rewarding to find in the wild.
I hated having to clip coupons for BJ's Wholesale Club.  I'm paying for membership and they can't tie available discounts to when I scan in my membership card in hopes some people won't use the coupons?  Slimy.

BJ's became so onerous and less of a deal, I stopped shopping there altogether. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 04:47:27 PM
I use coupons, but reluctantly, because I am not a fan of the time suck associated with couponing.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 04:56:55 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 04:47:27 PM
I use coupons, but reluctantly, because I am not a fan of the time suck associated with couponing.

This is what I was getting at.  Yes, coupons can save some money.  But, unless you're getting personalized coupons tailored to your specific shopping habits, it can be a lot of work for only a little reward.

I've also found that a coupon that seems like a great deal will prompt me to buy something I otherwise wouldn't.  I can't afford not to buy it! and all that.  Really, I'd have been better off just not buying it in the first place.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on January 11, 2023, 04:57:32 PM
Quote from: Big John on January 11, 2023, 10:14:34 AM
When TWC tries to be local, they use SR 172 or SR 29 for local highways.  SR is used for Georgia but not Wisconsin.

I was once in a tornadic situation and the place where I was at (a hospital) had no weather coverage available to customers but TWC. Hearing the meterologists attempt to pronounce Chickasaw and Choctaw placenames was cringe-inducing.

Quote from: formulanone on January 11, 2023, 10:51:31 AM
Heh, I went through a phase of watching it for about an hour a day from the ages of 10-11. The graphics looked like this:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newscaststudio.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F08%2Fweather-channel-graphics-1989.jpg&hash=071e892f704010630fe46b6579cadd3ac371fa41)

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LaT17fgmJy8/hqdefault.jpg)


That would be the WeatherStar 3000. Nice! I don't think any of them are still in active service (the same might be true of the 4000 now; they still existed but were rare as of the time of the Intellistar 1 was current).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on January 12, 2023, 01:18:38 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 04:47:27 PM
I use coupons, but reluctantly, because I am not a fan of the time suck associated with couponing.

My late father had a metal file box that was FULL of carefully trimmed and sorted coupons that he used while grocery shopping.  I don't even know how much time he wasted on it every week, just that it was a huge time v. money loss.  At least a major grocer here in NE Wisconsin puts stack of their current as fliers by the stores' entrances and it is scanned at the checkout.  Much faster and more convenient.

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 01:53:34 PM
Most of the coupons I end up with are for things I don't buy. Even if I get a coupon that would be useful and clip it, I forget to bring it with me. Or if I bring it, I forget to buy the product. And if I do both...the coupon is expired.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on January 12, 2023, 02:37:21 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 04:56:55 PMThis is what I was getting at.  Yes, coupons can save some money.  But, unless you're getting personalized coupons tailored to your specific shopping habits, it can be a lot of work for only a little reward.

I've also found that a coupon that seems like a great deal will prompt me to buy something I otherwise wouldn't.  I can't afford not to buy it! and all that.  Really, I'd have been better off just not buying it in the first place.

Quote from: mgk920 on January 12, 2023, 01:18:38 PMMy late father had a metal file box that was FULL of carefully trimmed and sorted coupons that he used while grocery shopping.  I don't even know how much time he wasted on it every week, just that it was a huge time v. money loss.  At least a major grocer here in NE Wisconsin puts stack of their current as fliers by the stores' entrances and it is scanned at the checkout.  Much faster and more convenient.

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 01:53:34 PMMost of the coupons I end up with are for things I don't buy. Even if I get a coupon that would be useful and clip it, I forget to bring it with me. Or if I bring it, I forget to buy the product. And if I do both...the coupon is expired.

I estimate that I spend about half an hour a week performing coupon-related activities.  Since Dillons (part of Kroger) dominates the local grocery market, we get personalized paper coupons through the mail--generally a small packet once a month and a personalized magazine ("My Magazine") about once a quarter.  I keep them under the pad we use for grocery lists at a corner of the counter, where it is easily accessible but otherwise out of our way when cooking.  Every so often, I fillet out expired coupons, as well as ones for products I know we're not interested in buying.

Every Friday evening I prepare for the weekly shop, which I usually do on Saturday.  I draw up the meal plan, add necessary ingredients to the grocery list, and review both the coupon stack and the online coupons (the latter in a Web browser on my laptop, not my phone).  If I see there are qualifying paper coupons, I set them aside so they are just under the grocery list, and add "(cpn)" next to each corresponding item on the list, adjusting the quantity to buy as needed to qualify for the discount (e.g., "x 2" if I have to buy two bags of potato chips for 40c off).  I add online coupons to my digital "wallet" on a more speculative basis, sometimes even including things I'm fairly sure I won't buy, such as beer in the winter; one way or the other, it's only a click.

I'd say I "pay" myself well over minimum wage doing this, usually without the complexity of stacking coupons or other forms of advanced couponing.  I know I sometimes leave money on the table (e.g., a few weeks ago I came a dollar and change shy of qualifying for $11 off on $110 worth of groceries), but otherwise I feel I am on the favorable side of the point of diminishing returns.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on January 18, 2023, 09:50:55 AM
I'm a bit late on the LOT8 discussion, but this is the song I've associated it with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bpS-cOBK6Q

I even added it to my music library.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on January 24, 2023, 11:29:52 PM
The fact is too many simple issues that you once could talk about with ease are now considered politics.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: zachary_amaryllis on January 25, 2023, 06:26:18 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 10, 2023, 11:48:45 PM
The way that the TWC local forecasts work is that there's a computer, called a WeatherStar, that sits at the local cable headend and downloads weather data from NOAA. At a time ending in 8, it starts generating the forecast graphics and they get automatically spliced into the cable feed. There are several different versions of the WeatherStar unit, so the appearance of the local forecast can vary quite a bit in different media markets depending on which version the cable headend is running. Usually the smaller media markets are two or three versions behind, so you can see some ancient graphics if you happen to check TWC when you stay in a hotel in the middle of nowhere.

That video is an Intellistar 1, which was current in the 2000s and had narration by Alan Jackson. For the Intellistar 2, released in 2010, Jim Cantore recorded the narration. I'm not sure if they went back and patched Cantore's voice onto the Intellistar 1 at any point, or if they're still using Jackson's narration.

The really odd thing there is "Papa Was A Rolling Stone" as the music. TWC is supposed to play cheap-royalty smooth jazz from acts you've never heard of, damn it.
I long for the late 80's, when it was just a Chyron or something, overlaying local info over the screen. There was a crawler also, iirc. Where I lived at the time, seemed like it wasn't quite ready for prime time.
SMITHFIELD ISLE
OF WIGHT CABLE 33
[weather stuff]
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 25, 2023, 06:55:18 AM
Keith Lee on TikTok
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on January 25, 2023, 11:03:46 AM
TikTok
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on January 25, 2023, 11:25:36 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 25, 2023, 11:03:46 AM
TikTok
Agreed.  Especially now that the latest "challenge" involves giving peanuts to people who have peanut allergies.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on January 25, 2023, 11:48:53 AM
And it's still a cybersecurity threat. Good times.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on January 25, 2023, 01:53:33 PM
I've never gotten the fascination with TikTok. What can you do there that you can't do on any other video platform?

As a rule, I don't watch TikTok videos. I don't have the app installed on my phone, and I don't click on links sent through third-party apps or via a browser.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on January 25, 2023, 02:01:51 PM
It's the same thing as the recently departed Vine basically. Just reformatted and loved by the kidz.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 25, 2023, 02:06:22 PM
I'd say it's different from Vine -- Vines were micro-sized videos, while TikTok has allowed longer and longer clips.

I actually compare TikTok to what it was like to watch network television.  People would sit on their couches and flip through channels every so many seconds.  TikTok's essentially the same, despite the shorter "programs."

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Bruce on January 25, 2023, 02:08:51 PM
It's funny that two of the current trends for mass video consumption online are on opposite ends of the time spectrum: TikTok and its clones favoring very very short videos to rush you to the next clip, and YouTube creators trying to pad out time to milk in more ad revenue.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on January 25, 2023, 04:42:16 PM
We just got a policy update last week that prohibits the TikTok app from being installed on work devices. It's the only app I know of that is expressly prohibited. It was done through a policy update, but there's legislation being considered this year to codify the ban.

Makes me skeptical of clicking on a TikTok link embedded elsewhere in a site accessible via a browser or another app. Since I have an Apple ID for my personal use, that's the one I use for my work phone as well. My mother-in-law texted me a link to a TikTok video the other day and I got the link on both devices, since she uses and iPhone too and iMessages are delivered via Apple ID and not phone numbers.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on January 25, 2023, 05:14:58 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 25, 2023, 04:42:16 PMWe just got a policy update last week that prohibits the TikTok app from being installed on work devices. It's the only app I know of that is expressly prohibited. It was done through a policy update, but there's legislation being considered this year to codify the ban.

The State of Kansas did the same thing about a month ago.

I don't go out of my way to avoid TikTok links, but I would not consider installing the app even on a personal device, largely because I don't need yet another social media app with ethically problematic UI design.  The cybersecurity concerns with TikTok have more to do with their policy allowing collection of biometric data and their inability, as a Chinese-owned firm, to give a credible promise that they will not serve as a vehicle for Chinese spying.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on January 25, 2023, 05:38:35 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 25, 2023, 05:14:58 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 25, 2023, 04:42:16 PMWe just got a policy update last week that prohibits the TikTok app from being installed on work devices. It's the only app I know of that is expressly prohibited. It was done through a policy update, but there's legislation being considered this year to codify the ban.

The State of Kansas did the same thing about a month ago.

I don't go out of my way to avoid TikTok links, but I would not consider installing the app even on a personal device, largely because I don't need yet another social media app with ethically problematic UI design.  The cybersecurity concerns with TikTok have more to do with their policy allowing collection of biometric data and their inability, as a Chinese-owned firm, to give a credible promise that they will not serve as a vehicle for Chinese spying.

That's pretty much my strategy with TikTok. It has no appeal for me as yet another social media platform and I've never been the type who's spent hours watching cat videos or following Kardashians (or any other influencers). My time both in the military and as a civilian with a security clearance means I probably don't trust the Chinese government even more than most people.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CoreySamson on January 25, 2023, 06:03:22 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 25, 2023, 11:25:36 AM
Especially now that the latest "challenge" involves giving peanuts to people who have peanut allergies.
It disgusts me that people find that funny.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on January 25, 2023, 06:17:32 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on January 25, 2023, 06:03:22 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 25, 2023, 11:25:36 AM
Especially now that the latest "challenge" involves giving peanuts to people who have peanut allergies.
It disgusts me that people find that funny.

We truly live in an Idiocracy.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: abefroman329 on January 25, 2023, 06:28:03 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 25, 2023, 06:17:32 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on January 25, 2023, 06:03:22 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 25, 2023, 11:25:36 AM
Especially now that the latest "challenge" involves giving peanuts to people who have peanut allergies.
It disgusts me that people find that funny.

We truly live in an Idiocracy.
It was one thing when people were doing stupid shit to themselves, that's just Darwinism at work.  Trying to kill another person for the lulz, though, that's straight-up sociopathic.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on January 25, 2023, 06:43:15 PM
I don't have any interest in TikTok because I dislike consuming video and have little interest in creating it, and so a social media platform where the only media that can be posted is video carries zero appeal to me. All the good TikToks get reposted to other sites, anyway.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 25, 2023, 11:14:00 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 25, 2023, 04:42:16 PM
We just got a policy update last week that prohibits the TikTok app from being installed on work devices. It's the only app I know of that is expressly prohibited. It was done through a policy update, but there's legislation being considered this year to codify the ban.

Makes me skeptical of clicking on a TikTok link embedded elsewhere in a site accessible via a browser or another app. Since I have an Apple ID for my personal use, that's the one I use for my work phone as well. My mother-in-law texted me a link to a TikTok video the other day and I got the link on both devices, since she uses and iPhone too and iMessages are delivered via Apple ID and not phone numbers.
I can't think of a legitimate purpose for TikTok being on a work phone of a state employee, anyway.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 25, 2023, 11:15:25 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 25, 2023, 05:14:58 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 25, 2023, 04:42:16 PMWe just got a policy update last week that prohibits the TikTok app from being installed on work devices. It's the only app I know of that is expressly prohibited. It was done through a policy update, but there's legislation being considered this year to codify the ban.

The State of Kansas did the same thing about a month ago.

I don't go out of my way to avoid TikTok links, but I would not consider installing the app even on a personal device, largely because I don't need yet another social media app with ethically problematic UI design.  The cybersecurity concerns with TikTok have more to do with their policy allowing collection of biometric data and their inability, as a Chinese-owned firm, to give a credible promise that they will not serve as a vehicle for Chinese spying.
Chinese can spy on me all they want.  What they can do with knowing what kind of food porn I watch won't hurt me.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on January 26, 2023, 05:03:54 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 25, 2023, 06:43:15 PM
I don't have any interest in TikTok because I dislike consuming video and have little interest in creating it, and so a social media platform where the only media that can be posted is video carries zero appeal to me. All the good TikToks get reposted to other sites, anyway.

All of this.

(Most of the video is also recorded in portrait mode, which works for specific instances, just not most instances.)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on January 26, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
Let's be honest with ourselves here. All of the things that TikTok does (encourage social media addiction, encourage stupid trends, lurking pedophiles, invasion of privacy/spying, selling data, etc.), almost every other platform does. It's just TikTok is more... blatant about it, I guess? I can guarantee that almost all the other tech giants are friends with China.

And YouTube is trying to make Shorts their own TikTok. They're bringing monetization to it in February, so I expect a lot of TikTok people may move to YouTube for that sweet ad revenue.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on January 26, 2023, 09:48:49 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on January 26, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
Let's be honest with ourselves here. All of the things that TikTok does [...]

And not everyone here enjoys social media, though the upstart is most likely to be the one which is most suspicious. It also means trying to enjoy a new ecosystem of involvement and not everyone wants to dive right in with other prior engagements and tasks already at hand. Maybe in 3-10 years, its adoption will be much higher, and it will be another established player until the newest one arrives on the scene...but there have been a number of security concerns which can't be controlled that some other apps permit.

Also: as with most forums, most long-time participants prefer reading to watching videos. Most here prefer finding and discovering information rather than having it randomly thrown at us. We prefer our own sounds/music to those blared at us. We aren't as impressed with attention-seekers and understand that not all posts get public gratification, especially a hobby which entails a lot of solitary time, or spending it with a very select circle. Our average age points higher than TikTok's target range.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 26, 2023, 10:03:59 AM
What exactly does TikTok offer that other social media platforms don't?  From what I can surmise TikTok is mainly just short videos mostly posted by kids doing song routines.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on January 26, 2023, 10:52:34 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 25, 2023, 11:14:00 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 25, 2023, 04:42:16 PM
We just got a policy update last week that prohibits the TikTok app from being installed on work devices. It's the only app I know of that is expressly prohibited. It was done through a policy update, but there's legislation being considered this year to codify the ban.

Makes me skeptical of clicking on a TikTok link embedded elsewhere in a site accessible via a browser or another app. Since I have an Apple ID for my personal use, that's the one I use for my work phone as well. My mother-in-law texted me a link to a TikTok video the other day and I got the link on both devices, since she uses and iPhone too and iMessages are delivered via Apple ID and not phone numbers.
I can't think of a legitimate purpose for TikTok being on a work phone of a state employee, anyway.

We had an interesting situation present itself yesterday. Some people are getting complaints about road and traffic issues sent via links to TikTok videos. Our response is to contact the constituent and tell them to phrase their complaint in writing, since state employees are not allowed to access TikTok content on work devices. That will no doubt make the complainants upset, but there's no exception being made for constituent complaints.

I'm actually a bit surprised that official agencies aren't using TikTok for promotion. In addition to the basics (Facebook and Twitter), I'm seeing DOTs have presences on Instagram and Pinterest, among other platforms/apps. KYTC is even experimenting with NextDoor, following a lead from ODOT.

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 25, 2023, 06:43:15 PM
I don't have any interest in TikTok because I dislike consuming video and have little interest in creating it, and so a social media platform where the only media that can be posted is video carries zero appeal to me. All the good TikToks get reposted to other sites, anyway.

I'm not a big video fan, either. (With one exception...) I'd rather read something than have to sit through a video about it. There's lots of political and current event content I would consume if it was in written narrative form instead of a video.

That exception?

Quote from: skluth on January 25, 2023, 05:38:35 PMwatching cat videos

I can watch good cat videos for hours. And I wish video had been as readily available back when we had some of our cats and kittens years ago. If I'd been able to get a video of the kitten packing a roll of toilet paper as big as it was through the house back in the late 1990s, it would have broken the Internet, it was so cute.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 26, 2023, 12:18:57 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 26, 2023, 10:03:59 AM
What exactly does TikTok offer that other social media platforms don't?  From what I can surmise TikTok is mainly just short videos mostly posted by kids doing song routines.
TikTok has evolved a lot from kids "flossing."  I avoided it for quite a while, but then my daughter got me somewhat hooked on it and we share funny videos back and forth.  The breadth of the topics covered on TikTok is pretty incredible...but like I implied before, it's just as brain melting as the boob tube ever was.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on January 26, 2023, 01:20:08 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 26, 2023, 10:03:59 AMWhat exactly does TikTok offer that other social media platforms don't?  From what I can surmise TikTok is mainly just short videos mostly posted by kids doing song routines.

It's gone well beyond kids and songs.  There is now "BookTok," consisting of short videos of people discussing books they like, which has given authors like Colleen Hoover and Emily Henry a strong sales boost.  I can't point to any specific examples at present (and my mind rebels at the idea of going to one social media platform to search for content hosted on another), but I have already seen a few TikToks on highway topics in the Facebook road-related groups.  A few have actually been not bad.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Bruce on January 26, 2023, 02:10:38 PM
Note that TikTok and its Chinese counterpart (Douyin) show vastly different content to children.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j0xzuh-6rY
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: paulthemapguy on January 26, 2023, 02:29:07 PM
TikTok is literally a platform for short videos.

That's all it is.  Whatever you can do in a short video, it has been done on TikTok.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on January 26, 2023, 05:48:26 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 26, 2023, 10:52:34 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 25, 2023, 06:43:15 PM
I don't have any interest in TikTok because I dislike consuming video and have little interest in creating it, and so a social media platform where the only media that can be posted is video carries zero appeal to me. All the good TikToks get reposted to other sites, anyway.

I'm not a big video fan, either. (With one exception...)

Before I read the rest of your post, my first reaction was "US Fed'ral Route 31-dub?"
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 26, 2023, 05:49:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 26, 2023, 05:48:26 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 26, 2023, 10:52:34 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 25, 2023, 06:43:15 PM
I don't have any interest in TikTok because I dislike consuming video and have little interest in creating it, and so a social media platform where the only media that can be posted is video carries zero appeal to me. All the good TikToks get reposted to other sites, anyway.

I'm not a big video fan, either. (With one exception...)

Before I read the rest of your post, my first reaction was "US Fed'ral Route 31-dub?"

Hey, are you guys trying to get Calrog to copyright claim the forum or something?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on January 26, 2023, 05:54:17 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 26, 2023, 05:49:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 26, 2023, 05:48:26 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 26, 2023, 10:52:34 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 25, 2023, 06:43:15 PM
I don't have any interest in TikTok because I dislike consuming video and have little interest in creating it, and so a social media platform where the only media that can be posted is video carries zero appeal to me. All the good TikToks get reposted to other sites, anyway.

I'm not a big video fan, either. (With one exception...)

Before I read the rest of your post, my first reaction was "US Fed'ral Route 31-dub?"

Hey, are you guys trying to get Calrog to copyright claim the forum or something?

Fair use for the purposes of criticism or commentary!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: XamotCGC on January 26, 2023, 05:59:18 PM
Tik Tok ads on youtube.  Ugh
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on January 26, 2023, 08:08:42 PM
My only exposure to USA-based Tik Tok clips is second hand via 'manosphere' YT clips, showing sadly dysfunctional younger wimmin whining abut their relational failures.  Not worth my giving so much of my personal data to the CCP.

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 26, 2023, 09:54:11 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 26, 2023, 08:08:42 PM
My only exposure to USA-based Tik Tok clips is second hand via 'manosphere' YT clips, showing sadly dysfunctional younger wimmin whining abut their relational failures.  Not worth my giving so much of my personal data to the CCP.

Mike
Of course, the algorithm shows you what your preferences desire. :D

Don't like what you see?  Change the channel (i.e., swipe).  You'll soon get cute animal videos.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: vdeane on January 26, 2023, 10:05:05 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 26, 2023, 10:52:34 AM
I can watch good cat videos for hours. And I wish video had been as readily available back when we had some of our cats and kittens years ago. If I'd been able to get a video of the kitten packing a roll of toilet paper as big as it was through the house back in the late 1990s, it would have broken the Internet, it was so cute.
TikTok certainly has cat videos, that's for sure.  My coworker found some on extension cord safety.  No joke.
https://www.tiktok.com/@veronicaandthebabyboo/video/7190042282358279467
https://www.tiktok.com/@veronicaandthebabyboo/video/7107217219880324398
https://www.tiktok.com/@veronicaandthebabyboo/video/7103562954557312302
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on March 25, 2023, 02:40:25 PM
Detroit-style pizza.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on March 25, 2023, 09:27:01 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 25, 2023, 02:40:25 PM
Detroit-style pizza.

Meh, there are probably more than a few users on this board who think pizza made outside the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area should be required by law to be called something other than pizza, or just banned from existing entirely
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on March 25, 2023, 10:52:30 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 25, 2023, 09:27:01 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 25, 2023, 02:40:25 PM
Detroit-style pizza.

Meh, there are probably more than a few users on this board who think pizza made outside the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area should be required by law to be called something other than pizza, or just banned from existing entirely
Nah.  This new marketing gimmick of "Detroit-style pizza" is stupid.

Reminds me of when people went gaga over "chai" as if it was some new-fangled hot drink.  In a lot of languages, "chai" just means "tea."
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bulldog1979 on March 25, 2023, 11:09:02 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 25, 2023, 10:52:30 PM
Nah.  This new marketing gimmick of "Detroit-style pizza" is stupid.

Is it a marketing gimmick of the style of pizza dates back to 1946?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on March 26, 2023, 12:17:56 AM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on March 25, 2023, 11:09:02 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 25, 2023, 10:52:30 PM
Nah.  This new marketing gimmick of "Detroit-style pizza" is stupid.

Is it a marketing gimmick of the style of pizza dates back to 1946?
Like I said, gimmick.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on March 26, 2023, 03:54:10 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 25, 2023, 02:40:25 PM
Detroit-style pizza.

Okay, I'll bite.  I've had Pizza Chicago style and New York style, but what's Detroit style?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on March 26, 2023, 06:34:40 AM
https://www.buddyspizza.com/
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on March 26, 2023, 08:31:35 AM
Quote from: kkt on March 26, 2023, 03:54:10 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 25, 2023, 02:40:25 PM
Detroit-style pizza.

Okay, I'll bite.  I've had Pizza Chicago style and New York style, but what's Detroit style?
A gimmick.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on March 26, 2023, 10:53:49 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 25, 2023, 09:27:01 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 25, 2023, 02:40:25 PM
Detroit-style pizza.

Meh, there are probably more than a few users on this board who think pizza made outside the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area should be required by law to be called something other than pizza, or just banned from existing entirely

No, that's not enough, it has to be from some very select neighborhood bordered by 5 numbered streets in NYC or it doesn't count. Even if they've never tried to make a pizza in their entire lives.

Also, if the 4th Earl of Sandwich didn't handle the same ingredients, than it's not a sandwich; merely stuff cobbled together on bread.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on March 26, 2023, 11:13:28 PM
John Calipari's coaching ability.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on March 26, 2023, 11:16:28 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 26, 2023, 11:13:28 PM
John Calipari's coaching ability.
Oh, come on now, he knew how to bribe players and only let his underlings take the rap.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman on March 26, 2023, 11:51:35 PM
Michigan J. Frog.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on March 27, 2023, 02:23:40 AM
Quote from: roadman on March 26, 2023, 11:51:35 PM
Michigan J. Frog.

Is he related to Kermit D. Frog?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on March 27, 2023, 06:41:59 AM
Quote from: roadman on March 26, 2023, 11:51:35 PM
Michigan J. Frog.
Nah.  Even Steven Spielberg called "One Froggy Evening" the Citizen Kane of the animated short.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on March 31, 2023, 08:44:05 PM
Andor
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 01, 2023, 02:29:27 AM
Steak. I'd rather eat a burger than steak. Steak is still good, but it gets so much hype that I don't think is warranted.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on April 01, 2023, 11:07:05 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 01, 2023, 02:29:27 AM
Steak. I'd rather eat a burger than steak. Steak is still good, but it gets so much hype that I don't think is warranted.

And also, other people tell you how they think you should eat it. This is much less common with burgers. So, burgers win out from the eating-in-peace criterion as well.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 04, 2023, 02:40:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2022, 06:39:13 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on September 22, 2022, 05:28:15 PM

Quote from: kphoger on September 22, 2022, 04:54:43 PM
I still prefer a chop steak to a real steak anyway.

So basically a burger or hot tartare, yeah?  :)

Yeah, basically a hamburger patty.  Put some gravy on that bad boy, and I think it's just as good as a steak–but 90% less likely to be stringy/tough/otherwise hard to eat.

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 01, 2023, 02:29:27 AM
Steak. I'd rather eat a burger than steak. Steak is still good, but it gets so much hype that I don't think is warranted.

:cheers:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 04, 2023, 02:42:13 PM
Count me in the crowd who prefers burgers over steak.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 04, 2023, 02:53:09 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 04, 2023, 02:42:13 PM
Count me in the crowd who prefers burgers over steak.

Bang for the buck? Sure. But if price were no object.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 04, 2023, 02:55:54 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 04, 2023, 02:53:09 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 04, 2023, 02:42:13 PM
Count me in the crowd who prefers burgers over steak.

Bang for the buck? Sure. But if price were no object.

I still would prefer the best burger I've had versus the best steak.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 04, 2023, 03:26:00 PM
As I said, I think a burger is just as good as a steak, but far less likely to be turn out bad.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 04, 2023, 03:43:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 04, 2023, 03:26:00 PM
As I said, I think a burger is just as good as a steak, but far less likely to be turn out bad.

The big thing for me that puts a burger over the top is how easy they are to consume.  Steak requires extensive amounts of cutting and utensil use. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 04, 2023, 03:45:40 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 04, 2023, 02:55:54 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 04, 2023, 02:53:09 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 04, 2023, 02:42:13 PM
Count me in the crowd who prefers burgers over steak.

Bang for the buck? Sure. But if price were no object.

I still would prefer the best burger I've had versus the best steak.

No way for me. A5 Wagyu for the win.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on April 04, 2023, 03:58:38 PM
1970s rock music.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 04, 2023, 04:18:14 PM
The best steak I've had, yes, was better than the best burger I've had.  But not by a whole lot, honestly.  And I've had plenty of steaks I wished I hadn't ordered–but very few such burgers.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 04, 2023, 05:27:26 PM
Worth noting in my case that I have eosinophilic esophagitis.  That makes consuming stuff like a steak much more of an effort than it probably would be in normal circumstances.  I'm able to eat burger patties much more easily. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 04, 2023, 05:29:08 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 04, 2023, 03:45:40 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 04, 2023, 02:55:54 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 04, 2023, 02:53:09 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 04, 2023, 02:42:13 PM
Count me in the crowd who prefers burgers over steak.

Bang for the buck? Sure. But if price were no object.

I still would prefer the best burger I've had versus the best steak.

No way for me. A5 Wagyu for the win.

Heh.  That's just the sweet taste of pretention.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on April 04, 2023, 06:35:27 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 28, 2022, 11:32:56 AM
I dont do satellite because of them being slow.
I do cable internet. Its faster.

That's because you are fortunate enough to live where there is cable internet. My family in Arkansas lives in a secluded rural area and the only kind of internet they can get is satellite. It sucks, but what are you going to do, use dialup?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on April 04, 2023, 06:36:30 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2022, 11:41:27 AM
In-N-Out

You're doing it wrong.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on April 04, 2023, 07:34:45 PM
Throwing a couple of thoughts into the steak-versus-burgers discussion:

*  If you don't think there is such a thing as a bad burger, you must have forgotten (or been spared) the experience of a 1980's school cafeteria.

*  Steak does require more cutting and forking, but your hands stay clean.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2023, 09:02:25 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 04, 2023, 05:29:08 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 04, 2023, 03:45:40 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 04, 2023, 02:55:54 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 04, 2023, 02:53:09 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 04, 2023, 02:42:13 PM
Count me in the crowd who prefers burgers over steak.

Bang for the buck? Sure. But if price were no object.

I still would prefer the best burger I've had versus the best steak.

No way for me. A5 Wagyu for the win.

Heh.  That's just the sweet taste of pretention.

Is there any better flavor, especially when it's on someone else's dime?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2023, 09:03:10 AM
Quote from: bugo on April 04, 2023, 06:36:30 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2022, 11:41:27 AM
In-N-Out

You're doing it wrong.

Disagree. Soggy fries. Average burger. Really long lines (at least at the ones in Colorado). No thanks.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on April 05, 2023, 09:04:12 AM
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Wrestling and boxing. The former is entirely fake, and for the latter, who wants to watch people get hurt?

Professional wrestling is not "fake". It's scripted. There's a difference. When a wrestler jumps off the top rope and lands on the floor below, the pain is definitely not fake. The injuries are very real. Would you go around saying that movies are "fake"?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2023, 09:11:19 AM
Quote from: bugo on April 05, 2023, 09:04:12 AM
Quote from: 1 on April 28, 2022, 04:26:58 PM
Wrestling and boxing. The former is entirely fake, and for the latter, who wants to watch people get hurt?

Professional wrestling is not "fake". It's scripted. There's a difference. When a wrestler jumps off the top rope and lands on the floor below, the pain is definitely not fake. The injuries are very real. Would you go around saying that movies are "fake"?

Sure. If it helps to demean wrestling.  :)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on April 05, 2023, 09:20:53 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 28, 2022, 11:49:55 AM
- US 66 (Only famous because it worked in a song, really never this mega important highway).

I don't agree that it wasn't an important highway, but I do agree that it is vastly overrated. There are hundreds of US and state highways around the country that have segments that are just as if not more interesting than 66. And a lot of 66 is boring. Much of it in cities is suburban strip hell, and the segments in some of the flat areas are mind-numbing. Most of the coolest sections of US 66 (La Bajada Hill, MacArthur Bridge) are no longer drivable. US 66 goes through the city I live in, but I still don't get what the big deal about it is.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 05, 2023, 09:25:46 AM
Quote from: bugo on April 05, 2023, 09:20:53 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 28, 2022, 11:49:55 AM
- US 66 (Only famous because it worked in a song, really never this mega important highway).

I don't agree that it wasn't an important highway, but I do agree that it is vastly overrated. There are hundreds of US and state highways around the country that have segments that are just as if not more interesting than 66. And a lot of 66 is boring. Much of it in cities is suburban strip hell, and the segments in some of the flat areas are mind-numbing. Most of the coolest sections of US 66 (La Bajada Hill, MacArthur Bridge) are no longer drivable. US 66 goes through the city I live in, but I still don't get what the big deal about it is.

What I find fascinating about US 66 fandom is that it is more about trying to experience what the past was like through modern lenses.  That experience probably isn't (rhetorical since I know ) authentic to what the actual highway was like when it was a living entity.  Considering US 66 is outside the window of living memory for a good percentage of the population I question the authenticity of the presentation sometimes.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 05, 2023, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2023, 09:03:10 AM
Quote from: bugo on April 04, 2023, 06:36:30 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2022, 11:41:27 AM
In-N-Out

You're doing it wrong.

Disagree. Soggy fries. Average burger. Really long lines (at least at the ones in Colorado). No thanks.
^This.

In-N-Out is a notch above Burger King.  Nowhere near the hype it gets.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 05, 2023, 01:25:59 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 05, 2023, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2023, 09:03:10 AM
Quote from: bugo on April 04, 2023, 06:36:30 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2022, 11:41:27 AM
In-N-Out

You're doing it wrong.

Disagree. Soggy fries. Average burger. Really long lines (at least at the ones in Colorado). No thanks.
^This.

In-N-Out is a notch above Burger King.  Nowhere near the hype it gets.

In-N-Out tends to be a lot faster if you go in and order.  Locally in California it isn't so bad given that the chain is pretty much everywhere.  Even still the waits are on the longer side for fast food.  Taking advantage of the 10 AM secret opening is really the optimal way to go if you want fast service from In-N-Out.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on April 05, 2023, 02:03:43 PM
Quote from: bugo on April 04, 2023, 06:35:27 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 28, 2022, 11:32:56 AM
I dont do satellite because of them being slow.
I do cable internet. Its faster.

That's because you are fortunate enough to live where there is cable internet. My family in Arkansas lives in a secluded rural area and the only kind of internet they can get is satellite. It sucks, but what are you going to do, use dialup?

Attest. I had satellite internet for awhile and it was slow, expensive, and with ridiculous daily data limits. I gave it up when HughesNet refused to replace my box when it went bad and instead wanted to come out and do a service call which would have been an additional cost.

I've been using a cell hotspot at home but fiber is being run into my rural area and it should be available later this year. PRTC has gotten all sorts of national accolades for their service and I'm looking forward to their service being available.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on April 05, 2023, 03:06:30 PM
Alcohol.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 05, 2023, 03:28:08 PM
I rather be drunk than stoned.  I hate the feeling of paranoia I always got with marijuana products especially.  Usually if I'm drunk I just get tired and go to bed early.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2023, 04:39:19 PM
I smoked for the first time in a while when I was at my buddy's wedding last weekend. I took one hit and I still felt it uncomfortably strongly four hours later. I'll stick to my whiskey.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on April 05, 2023, 04:51:18 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2023, 04:39:19 PM
I smoked for the first time in a while when I was at my buddy's wedding last weekend. I took one hit and I still felt it uncomfortably strongly four hours later. I'll stick to my whiskey.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 05, 2023, 03:28:08 PM
I rather be drunk than stoned.  I hate the feeling of paranoia I always got with marijuana products especially.  Usually if I'm drunk I just get tired and go to bed early.
Quote from: bugo on April 05, 2023, 03:06:30 PM
Alcohol.

Intoxication in general.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 05, 2023, 08:19:37 PM
I'm a teetotaler and have been around those who are drunk.  Whatever the self perception, yeah, being drunk is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2023, 09:35:35 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 05, 2023, 08:19:37 PM
I'm a teetotaler and have been around those who are drunk.  Whatever the self perception, yeah, being drunk is overrated.

At age 41, I have zero interest in being drunk. But a lot of fun times have happened over the course of my life because I was letting loose in such a way that only alcohol affords.  YMMV of course, and obviously, it goes without saying it's not healthy.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 05, 2023, 09:45:43 PM
I've found being drunk around people to be mostly overrated.  Now having a nice solid beer buzz on a day off along or a night leading into one is something I do occasionally enjoy. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on April 06, 2023, 01:11:00 AM
For a long time I thought I just disliked steak.  Then I had a good one, from a pricey restaurant that butchered its own meat.  It was delicious and not tough or chewey at all. I still don't have them often, because price is a consideration and there aren't that many restaurants that do a great job with them.

In 'n Out - highly overrated.  Long waits even by sit-down restaurant standards - and a restaurant would at least serve you an appetizer while you wait.  Food that was somewhere in between fast food and an average restaurant burger.  They've got a lot of gall to charge premium prices as well.

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on April 06, 2023, 05:52:31 AM
Eh, I look at the whole fast food burger thing not much more differently than comparing a road in one state from another state. A change of pace is nice, but neither is worthy of time-consuming disdain nor uplifting it unto a transcendental realm.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 06, 2023, 07:01:05 AM


Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2023, 09:35:35 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 05, 2023, 08:19:37 PM
I'm a teetotaler and have been around those who are drunk.  Whatever the self perception, yeah, being drunk is overrated.

At age 41, I have zero interest in being drunk. But a lot of fun times have happened over the course of my life because I was letting loose in such a way that only alcohol affords.  YMMV of course, and obviously, it goes without saying it's not healthy.

Weren't you the bartender?  Sort of a self-serving statement. :D

I'm still not convinced that one needs alcohol to "let loose."  You need hallucinogens to hallucinate, but it just sounds pathetic to me that one needs to consume a depressant or they won't have a good time.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on April 06, 2023, 07:40:44 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 05, 2023, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2023, 09:03:10 AM
Quote from: bugo on April 04, 2023, 06:36:30 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2022, 11:41:27 AM
In-N-Out

You're doing it wrong.

Disagree. Soggy fries. Average burger. Really long lines (at least at the ones in Colorado). No thanks.
^This.

In-N-Out is a notch above Burger King.  Nowhere near the hype it gets.

Wow, your Burger King is hitting far above average. Most BKs are pretty disappointing experiences.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 06, 2023, 08:01:00 AM


Quote from: formulanone on April 06, 2023, 07:40:44 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 05, 2023, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2023, 09:03:10 AM
Quote from: bugo on April 04, 2023, 06:36:30 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2022, 11:41:27 AM
In-N-Out

You're doing it wrong.

Disagree. Soggy fries. Average burger. Really long lines (at least at the ones in Colorado). No thanks.
^This.

In-N-Out is a notch above Burger King.  Nowhere near the hype it gets.

Wow, your Burger King is hitting far above average. Most BKs are pretty disappointing experiences.

Heh.  Then that just drags In-N-Out down further.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on April 06, 2023, 08:02:19 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 05, 2023, 08:19:37 PM
I'm a teetotaler and have been around those who are drunk.  Whatever the self perception, yeah, being drunk is overrated.

As said by Belgarath the Sorcerer in the book Pawn of Prophecy, "It seemed like a good idea at the time."
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on April 06, 2023, 08:04:53 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 06, 2023, 08:01:00 AM


Quote from: formulanone on April 06, 2023, 07:40:44 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 05, 2023, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2023, 09:03:10 AM
Quote from: bugo on April 04, 2023, 06:36:30 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2022, 11:41:27 AM
In-N-Out

You're doing it wrong.

Disagree. Soggy fries. Average burger. Really long lines (at least at the ones in Colorado). No thanks.
^This.

In-N-Out is a notch above Burger King.  Nowhere near the hype it gets.

Wow, your Burger King is hitting far above average. Most BKs are pretty disappointing experiences.

Heh.  Then that just drags In-N-Out down further.

Burger King is the Reggie Jackson of fast food; lots of swagger, many swings and misses. But sometimes they nail it just absolutely right.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 06, 2023, 08:06:20 AM
Quote from: formulanone on April 06, 2023, 08:04:53 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 06, 2023, 08:01:00 AM


Quote from: formulanone on April 06, 2023, 07:40:44 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 05, 2023, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2023, 09:03:10 AM
Quote from: bugo on April 04, 2023, 06:36:30 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2022, 11:41:27 AM
In-N-Out

You're doing it wrong.

Disagree. Soggy fries. Average burger. Really long lines (at least at the ones in Colorado). No thanks.
^This.

In-N-Out is a notch above Burger King.  Nowhere near the hype it gets.

Wow, your Burger King is hitting far above average. Most BKs are pretty disappointing experiences.

Heh.  Then that just drags In-N-Out down further.

Burger King is the Reggie Jackson of fast food; lots of swagger, many swings and misses. But sometimes they nail it just absolutely right.

I like the idea of Burger King with a 'fro jammed under a cap.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on April 06, 2023, 01:02:10 PM
Quote from: formulanone on April 06, 2023, 07:40:44 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 05, 2023, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2023, 09:03:10 AM
Quote from: bugo on April 04, 2023, 06:36:30 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2022, 11:41:27 AM
In-N-Out

You're doing it wrong.

Disagree. Soggy fries. Average burger. Really long lines (at least at the ones in Colorado). No thanks.
^This.

In-N-Out is a notch above Burger King.  Nowhere near the hype it gets.

Wow, your Burger King is hitting far above average. Most BKs are pretty disappointing experiences.


BK is one restaurant that is trying so hard to look like the late 70s, as far as color scheme and return to their 70s logo and theme song. And their You Rule commercials are annoying.  Sounds like a college jock who majored in basket weaving is attempting a singing career.

When they switched to the circular, tilted logo with brighter interiors in the late 90s, they started looking like a decent restaurant that was keeping with the times, only to revert back.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on April 06, 2023, 01:26:03 PM
Maybe it has to do with familiarity, but I like Burger King much more than the common alternatives around here (McDonald's, Wendy's, and Hardee's).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 06, 2023, 02:05:27 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on April 06, 2023, 01:02:10 PM
Quote from: formulanone on April 06, 2023, 07:40:44 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 05, 2023, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 05, 2023, 09:03:10 AM
Quote from: bugo on April 04, 2023, 06:36:30 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2022, 11:41:27 AM
In-N-Out

You're doing it wrong.

Disagree. Soggy fries. Average burger. Really long lines (at least at the ones in Colorado). No thanks.
^This.

In-N-Out is a notch above Burger King.  Nowhere near the hype it gets.

Wow, your Burger King is hitting far above average. Most BKs are pretty disappointing experiences.


BK is one restaurant that is trying so hard to look like the late 70s, as far as color scheme and return to their 70s logo and theme song. And their You Rule commercials are annoying.  Sounds like a college jock who majored in basket weaving is attempting a singing career.

When they switched to the circular, tilted logo with brighter interiors in the late 90s, they started looking like a decent restaurant that was keeping with the times, only to revert back.

Everything that becomes old becomes new again eventually.  Personally I prefer the older/simpler branding designs.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 06, 2023, 03:25:29 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 04, 2023, 07:34:45 PM
Throwing a couple of thoughts into the steak-versus-burgers discussion:

*  If you don't think there is such a thing as a bad burger, you must have forgotten (or been spared) the experience of a 1980's school cafeteria.

[...]

On the other hand, I don't recall having a good steak at a 1980s school cafeteria either.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on April 06, 2023, 04:05:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2023, 03:25:29 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 04, 2023, 07:34:45 PM
Throwing a couple of thoughts into the steak-versus-burgers discussion:

*  If you don't think there is such a thing as a bad burger, you must have forgotten (or been spared) the experience of a 1980's school cafeteria.

[...]

On the other hand, I don't recall having a good steak at a 198060s-70s school cafeteria either.

FIFY. Steak at school would have been unheard-of.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 06, 2023, 04:17:03 PM
I never liked the Burger King's "new" logo with the blue swirl.  Glad they brought the old one back.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on April 06, 2023, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 06, 2023, 04:05:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2023, 03:25:29 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 04, 2023, 07:34:45 PM
Throwing a couple of thoughts into the steak-versus-burgers discussion:

*  If you don't think there is such a thing as a bad burger, you must have forgotten (or been spared) the experience of a 1980's school cafeteria.

[...]

On the other hand, I don't recall having a good steak at a 198060s-70s school cafeteria either.

FIFY. Steak at school would have been unheard-of.

On the other hand, the "steak" might have been that missing catcher's mitt the gym teacher was trying to find.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 06, 2023, 05:39:28 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 06, 2023, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 06, 2023, 04:05:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2023, 03:25:29 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 04, 2023, 07:34:45 PM
Throwing a couple of thoughts into the steak-versus-burgers discussion:

*  If you don't think there is such a thing as a bad burger, you must have forgotten (or been spared) the experience of a 1980's school cafeteria.

[...]

On the other hand, I don't recall having a good steak at a 198060s-70s school cafeteria either.

FIFY. Steak at school would have been unheard-of.

On the other hand, the "steak" might have been that missing catcher's mitt the gym teacher was trying to find.

So you're saying that there"˜s very little meat in these gym mats?

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: dlsterner on April 06, 2023, 05:48:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 06, 2023, 04:05:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2023, 03:25:29 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 04, 2023, 07:34:45 PM
Throwing a couple of thoughts into the steak-versus-burgers discussion:

*  If you don't think there is such a thing as a bad burger, you must have forgotten (or been spared) the experience of a 1980's school cafeteria.

[...]

On the other hand, I don't recall having a good steak at a 198060s-70s school cafeteria either.

FIFY. Steak at school would have been unheard-of.

True, unless it was either a "Salisbury Steak" (basically a hamburger covered with gravy) or a "Chicken Fried Steak" (a piece of shoe leather meat hammered to within an inch of its life, then breaded and deep fried).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on April 06, 2023, 06:53:16 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2022, 03:59:56 PM
As for multi-user restrooms, call me old-fashioned, but I'd be very embarrassed to have loud gas and a foul smell accompanying a bowel movement if women were in the same room. I've been married for nearly 27 years and I'm still not comfortable with letting flatulence slip in the presence of my wife. Not long after we were married, I bent over to pick something up and accidentally ripped one, and I've been ashamed of that ever since.

I wouldn't want unisex bathrooms because of a similar reason. I would hate it to be in the bathroom and to hear somebody take a loud and smelly shit, and when they come out of the stall it is a hot woman. I don't want to see, hear or smell that.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on April 06, 2023, 08:01:20 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 09, 2022, 11:23:15 AM
Eric Clapton

I find the vast majority of blues rock guitarists, especially from the 1960s and 1970s, to be boring and vapid. It's generic and has been done over and over so many times that it is just superfluous. If I'm going to listen to a bluesy rock guitarist, it's going to be somebody like Josh Homme (Kyuss, Queens of the Stone Age), who mixes the two genres in a unique and original way. But guys like Clapton just make me want to listen to something else.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on April 06, 2023, 11:14:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 06, 2023, 05:39:28 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 06, 2023, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 06, 2023, 04:05:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2023, 03:25:29 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 04, 2023, 07:34:45 PM
Throwing a couple of thoughts into the steak-versus-burgers discussion:

*  If you don't think there is such a thing as a bad burger, you must have forgotten (or been spared) the experience of a 1980's school cafeteria.

[...]

On the other hand, I don't recall having a good steak at a 198060s-70s school cafeteria either.

FIFY. Steak at school would have been unheard-of.

On the other hand, the "steak" might have been that missing catcher's mitt the gym teacher was trying to find.

So you're saying that there"˜s very little meat in these gym mats?



"Ain't no meat, ain't no meat, ain't no meat in them burritos"  Mr. Bross, US History teacher, signed my yearbook
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Ted$8roadFan on April 07, 2023, 05:24:50 AM
Quote from: kkt on April 06, 2023, 11:14:28 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 06, 2023, 05:39:28 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 06, 2023, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 06, 2023, 04:05:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 06, 2023, 03:25:29 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 04, 2023, 07:34:45 PM
Throwing a couple of thoughts into the steak-versus-burgers discussion:

*  If you don't think there is such a thing as a bad burger, you must have forgotten (or been spared) the experience of a 1980's school cafeteria.

[...]

On the other hand, I don't recall having a good steak at a 198060s-70s school cafeteria either.

FIFY. Steak at school would have been unheard-of.

On the other hand, the "steak" might have been that missing catcher's mitt the gym teacher was trying to find.

So you're saying that there"˜s very little meat in these gym mats?



"Ain't no meat, ain't no meat, ain't no meat in them burritos"  Mr. Bross, US History teacher, signed my yearbook

Don't forget the Malk.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JoePCool14 on April 07, 2023, 10:12:30 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on April 06, 2023, 01:02:10 PM
BK is one restaurant that is trying so hard to look like the late 70s, as far as color scheme and return to their 70s logo and theme song. And their You Rule commercials are annoying.  Sounds like a college jock who majored in basket weaving is attempting a singing career.

When they switched to the circular, tilted logo with brighter interiors in the late 90s, they started looking like a decent restaurant that was keeping with the times, only to revert back.

I firmly disagree. I think the You Rule commercials are very effective, and not just because they went down well in the online meme community.

The general rule about Burger King is this: Good BKs are hard to find, but when you find a good one, it's pretty good.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on April 08, 2023, 08:19:32 PM
Quote from: kkt on May 15, 2022, 09:50:01 PMThe Canadian quarter is slightly smaller and slightly lighter than its American counterpart and the machines can apparently tell the difference.

From 1920-1967, Canadian silver coins were 80%. From 1967-1968, they were 50%. Some silver 1967 coins were 80%, some were 50%.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kirbykart on April 08, 2023, 09:29:22 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 06, 2023, 04:17:03 PM
I never liked the Burger King's "new" logo with the blue swirl.  Glad they brought the old one back.

I am the opposite. I prefer the blue circle logo.

Also, Burger King is one of the best fast foods and is significantly better than Mc Donald's. Especially the French fries are much better at Burger King.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 08, 2023, 09:38:09 PM
It really depends on the location. The one remaining Burger King in Norman is far worse than the one that I worked at, which closed a few years ago.

I liked their old fries a lot better than the ones they have now, although I ate so many of them when I worked there that I stopped being able to taste them at all.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: LilianaUwU on April 08, 2023, 09:47:05 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 06, 2023, 04:17:03 PM
I never liked the Burger King's "new" logo with the blue swirl.  Glad they brought the old one back.
I dunno, either logo is fine. And honestly, I couldn't care less when the Whopper with cheese is one of the best fast food burgers I ever ate.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on April 09, 2023, 05:28:37 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 10:06:13 AM
Sorry, I should clarify.  Wearing clothes is overrated.
Honestly, we'd be fine half the year without them.

No, sir. I don't want to see that. Most humans are gross, and have ugly bodies. I'd rather not.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on April 09, 2023, 06:45:21 PM
Quotepremarital sex

You can easily tell who can't get laid here.

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on April 09, 2023, 06:48:13 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 02:11:24 PM
While I did grow up in a religious family

That explains a lot...

I, to, grew up in a religious family. But I didn't turn out to be a prudish buzzkill.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 09, 2023, 09:31:13 PM
Bugo is back.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 09, 2023, 09:31:50 PM
Quote from: bugo on April 09, 2023, 06:45:21 PM
Quotepremarital sex

You can easily tell who can't get laid here.
Indeed.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 10, 2023, 08:36:07 AM
Quote from: bugo on April 09, 2023, 05:28:37 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 10:06:13 AM
Sorry, I should clarify.  Wearing clothes is overrated.
Honestly, we'd be fine half the year without them.

No, sir. I don't want to see that. Most humans are gross, and have ugly bodies. I'd rather not.
Quote from: bugo on April 09, 2023, 06:48:13 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on May 26, 2022, 02:11:24 PM
While I did grow up in a religious family

That explains a lot...

I, to, grew up in a religious family. But I didn't turn out to be a prudish buzzkill.

These two don't follow.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 18, 2023, 12:10:30 PM
Smelling flowers.  A lot of flowers smell bad.  Most floral-scented products smell awful.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2023, 12:55:32 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 18, 2023, 12:10:30 PM
Smelling flowers.  A lot of flowers smell bad.  Most floral-scented products smell awful.

Poppy Peeping season in California is something I've never understood.  They are literally just the same flowers that sprout every spring.  The places where are blooms are common tend to have some pretty enjoyable trails with their own merit.  I guess Poppy Peeping is the western analog for Leaf Peeping out east.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on April 18, 2023, 01:12:13 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 18, 2023, 12:10:30 PM
Smelling flowers.  A lot of flowers smell bad.  Most floral-scented products smell awful.
Wood > all flowers. Normalize smelling wood.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on April 18, 2023, 02:08:52 PM
There's something about cherry blossoms or orange blossoms that's a nice for the fleeting times of year they occur.

Spring is nice and sometimes allergies ruin it, though it seems to bug me a lot less in the last few years.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 18, 2023, 02:29:28 PM
Fresno County even has a signed Orange Blossom Trail.  One of the best things about having fruit producing trees is how nice they look and smell during Spring.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kirbykart on April 22, 2023, 12:29:23 PM
Milk chocolate is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on April 22, 2023, 01:10:17 PM
I believe I said this before, but Morgan & Morgan ads on radio are overrated. John Morgan the owner of the firm has a spot every ten minutes somewhere on the dial, and every ad he praises himself for his success.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on April 22, 2023, 03:23:18 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 22, 2023, 01:10:17 PM
I believe I said this before, but Morgan & Morgan ads on radio are overrated. John Morgan the owner of the firm has a spot every ten minutes somewhere on the dial, and every ad he praises himself for his success.

What is Morgan and Morgan?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 22, 2023, 05:02:20 PM
The movie The Town is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on April 22, 2023, 05:39:40 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 22, 2023, 03:23:18 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 22, 2023, 01:10:17 PM
I believe I said this before, but Morgan & Morgan ads on radio are overrated. John Morgan the owner of the firm has a spot every ten minutes somewhere on the dial, and every ad he praises himself for his success.

What is Morgan and Morgan?

Some attorney that started out in Florida who started out in the late eighties as Morgan, Colling, and Gilbert who twenty years later went into practice with his wife and three kids and now says he's the largest firm in America. He has billboards in several states and dominants the Central Florida Radio and TV markets bragging about what a great success he is.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on April 22, 2023, 07:39:14 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 22, 2023, 05:39:40 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 22, 2023, 03:23:18 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 22, 2023, 01:10:17 PM
I believe I said this before, but Morgan & Morgan ads on radio are overrated. John Morgan the owner of the firm has a spot every ten minutes somewhere on the dial, and every ad he praises himself for his success.

What is Morgan and Morgan?

Some attorney that started out in Florida who started out in the late eighties as Morgan, Colling, and Gilbert who twenty years later went into practice with his wife and three kids and now says he's the largest firm in America. He has billboards in several states and dominants the Central Florida Radio and TV markets bragging about what a great success he is.

Without naming names, some attorney's commercials re so bad that they are actually funny. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Ted$8roadFan on April 23, 2023, 06:16:08 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on April 22, 2023, 07:39:14 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 22, 2023, 05:39:40 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 22, 2023, 03:23:18 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 22, 2023, 01:10:17 PM
I believe I said this before, but Morgan & Morgan ads on radio are overrated. John Morgan the owner of the firm has a spot every ten minutes somewhere on the dial, and every ad he praises himself for his success.

What is Morgan and Morgan?

Some attorney that started out in Florida who started out in the late eighties as Morgan, Colling, and Gilbert who twenty years later went into practice with his wife and three kids and now says he's the largest firm in America. He has billboards in several states and dominants the Central Florida Radio and TV markets bragging about what a great success he is.

Without naming names, some attorney's commercials re so bad that they are actually funny.

Said law firm not only spends IDK how much on ads here in Massachusetts, but is also the official personal injury law firm of the Boston Red Sox IIRC.

https://www.mlb.com/press-release/boston-red-sox-partner-with-law-firm-morgan-morgan-in-major-advertising-deal
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 23, 2023, 06:30:49 AM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on April 23, 2023, 06:16:08 AM
Said law firm not only spends IDK how much in ads here in Massachusetts, but is also the official personal injury law firm of the Boston Red Sox IIRC.

How accident-prone are the Red Sox that they need an official personal injury law firm?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Ted$8roadFan on April 23, 2023, 12:38:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2023, 06:30:49 AM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on April 23, 2023, 06:16:08 AM
Said law firm not only spends IDK how much in ads here in Massachusetts, but is also the official personal injury law firm of the Boston Red Sox IIRC.

How accident-prone are the Red Sox that they need an official personal injury law firm?

I've no inside knowledge, but I suspect it is either the Red Sox's continued desire to increase its national presence (as well as more $$$), or M&M's desire to build a northeast following.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on April 23, 2023, 12:40:13 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 22, 2023, 05:39:40 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 22, 2023, 03:23:18 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 22, 2023, 01:10:17 PM
I believe I said this before, but Morgan & Morgan ads on radio are overrated. John Morgan the owner of the firm has a spot every ten minutes somewhere on the dial, and every ad he praises himself for his success.

What is Morgan and Morgan?

Some attorney that started out in Florida who started out in the late eighties as Morgan, Colling, and Gilbert who twenty years later went into practice with his wife and three kids and now says he's the largest firm in America. He has billboards in several states and dominants the Central Florida Radio and TV markets bragging about what a great success he is.

Ah. Thanks.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 23, 2023, 02:05:04 PM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on April 23, 2023, 12:38:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2023, 06:30:49 AM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on April 23, 2023, 06:16:08 AM
Said law firm not only spends IDK how much in ads here in Massachusetts, but is also the official personal injury law firm of the Boston Red Sox IIRC.

How accident-prone are the Red Sox that they need an official personal injury law firm?

I've no inside knowledge, but I suspect it is either the Red Sox's continued desire to increase its national presence (as well as more $$$), or M&M's desire to build a northeast following.

It's just a sponsorship.  No more, no less.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bm7 on April 23, 2023, 02:06:03 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on April 22, 2023, 12:29:23 PM
Milk chocolate is overrated.
Chocolate milk is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 23, 2023, 02:08:35 PM
Quote from: bm7 on April 23, 2023, 02:06:03 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on April 22, 2023, 12:29:23 PM
Milk chocolate is overrated.
Chocolate milk is overrated.
Neither is true.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on April 23, 2023, 04:43:49 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 23, 2023, 02:05:04 PM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on April 23, 2023, 12:38:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2023, 06:30:49 AM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on April 23, 2023, 06:16:08 AM
Said law firm not only spends IDK how much in ads here in Massachusetts, but is also the official personal injury law firm of the Boston Red Sox IIRC.

How accident-prone are the Red Sox that they need an official personal injury law firm?

I've no inside knowledge, but I suspect it is either the Red Sox's continued desire to increase its national presence (as well as more $$$), or M&M's desire to build a northeast following.

It's just a sponsorship.  No more, no less.
I think every pro team has a sponsorship deal with a big law firm. In Milwaukee it's Gruber, whose commercials are so bad that they're painful to watch.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2023, 04:48:10 PM
Were you injured while watching a personal injury law firm commercial?  You may be entitled to a cash settlement, call 1-800-382-5968 today for a free consultation appointment!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: SSOWorld on April 23, 2023, 07:05:42 PM
Quote from: thspfc on April 23, 2023, 04:43:49 PM
I think every pro team has a sponsorship deal with a big law firm. In Milwaukee it's Gruber, whose commercials are so bad that they're painful to watch.
One call, that's all. 🤮
Quote from: Rothman on April 23, 2023, 02:08:35 PM
Quote from: bm7 on April 23, 2023, 02:06:03 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on April 22, 2023, 12:29:23 PM
Milk chocolate is overrated.
Chocolate milk is overrated.
Neither is true.
Neither is false.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on April 23, 2023, 07:17:43 PM
Red Bull is overrated.

To me it's overpriced.

Plus Coffee has the same caffeine as the Bull. Much cheaper as well.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 23, 2023, 07:21:29 PM
Coffee tastes like doing your taxes, though. Definitely overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on April 23, 2023, 07:29:15 PM
Not if you go to QT. Their coffee bar has many supplements to add to your coffee, buying it there is great fun.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on April 23, 2023, 09:11:51 PM
FamilyMart coffee ... that shit is the bomb.

I don't know when I started drinking coffee, but it was a hugely acquired taste. I knew offsetting the taste with a bunch of cream and sugar would ruin any potential health benefits coffee had over sugary energy drinks, so I've stuck with black hot coffee. Glad I did, now I really like it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on April 23, 2023, 09:50:48 PM
Quote from: thspfc on April 23, 2023, 04:43:49 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 23, 2023, 02:05:04 PM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on April 23, 2023, 12:38:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2023, 06:30:49 AM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on April 23, 2023, 06:16:08 AM
Said law firm not only spends IDK how much in ads here in Massachusetts, but is also the official personal injury law firm of the Boston Red Sox IIRC.

How accident-prone are the Red Sox that they need an official personal injury law firm?

I've no inside knowledge, but I suspect it is either the Red Sox's continued desire to increase its national presence (as well as more $$$), or M&M's desire to build a northeast following.

It's just a sponsorship.  No more, no less.
I think every pro team has a sponsorship deal with a big law firm. In Milwaukee it's Gruber, whose commercials are so bad that they're painful to watch.

Yea, I regularly turn the sound down or to 'mute' when they come on - and often forget to turn it back up.

:-o

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 23, 2023, 11:31:18 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 23, 2023, 09:11:51 PM
I don't know when I started drinking coffee, but it was a hugely acquired taste. ... Glad I did, now I really like it.

That's called Stockholm syndrome. :D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 23, 2023, 11:53:11 PM
I can't get into coffee and always preferred sodas.  I do like Red Bull, but only because it takes like Flintstones Vitamins.  There isn't much in the way of soda or energy drinks that I don't drink.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on April 23, 2023, 11:55:59 PM
Apparently lawyers run this country, so they got the Supreme Court to overrule the ban on lawyer ads that was in place due to the advertisements to be conflicts of interest.

However, when it comes to John Morgan, I'm sick of his ads cause not only over does it in advertising, but his lack of humility when he appeals to the general public. All right so you built a big firm, but don't say it as facts will speak for that feat.  Just say "if you're injured, we know how you feel, and we would glad to help you get your life back. "

Plus some of Morgan's commercials are to inform us of his opinions toward political ideals and not lawyer related. He once didn't like a Florida law and let everybody know it, but he got friendly sarcastic and made the statement " Guess who started that law."   What is interesting was he didn't even tell us who the person was, as many of us listeners were curious as who was that person's identity.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on April 24, 2023, 12:39:54 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2023, 11:31:18 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 23, 2023, 09:11:51 PM
I don't know when I started drinking coffee, but it was a hugely acquired taste. ... Glad I did, now I really like it.

That's called Stockholm syndrome. :D

True, though you shouldn't give up on a food or drink item just because you didn't immediately like it. If there are obvious health benefits to it, especially compared to other items that achieve similar results (eg coffee vs Red Bull), it's reasonable to at least try to develop a taste for it.

Moving to Japan, steamed rice was an adjustment. Never loved it back in the states, always bland and too sticky. Now I love it, probably because I've been forced to learn to love it lol. And as a side-dish, it's certainly a lot healthier than, say, fried potatoes.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 24, 2023, 01:39:11 AM
Eh, I've tried coffee a couple times a year pretty much my entire life and I can't ever stomach it enough to get through an entire cup, no matter what I put in it. (When I was at the casino it would have been great, since they had free coffee and I worked graveyard shift part of the time.) I'm the same way with tea and beer, so it must just be some sort of global dislike of brewed beverages.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: SSOWorld on April 24, 2023, 03:55:35 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 24, 2023, 01:39:11 AM
Eh, I've tried coffee a couple times a year pretty much my entire life and I can't ever stomach it enough to get through an entire cup, no matter what I put in it. (When I was at the casino it would have been great, since they had free coffee and I worked graveyard shift part of the time.) I'm the same way with tea and beer, so it must just be some sort of global dislike of brewed beverages.
You don't represent the globe.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 24, 2023, 04:56:09 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 24, 2023, 03:55:35 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 24, 2023, 01:39:11 AM
Eh, I've tried coffee a couple times a year pretty much my entire life and I can't ever stomach it enough to get through an entire cup, no matter what I put in it. (When I was at the casino it would have been great, since they had free coffee and I worked graveyard shift part of the time.) I'm the same way with tea and beer, so it must just be some sort of global dislike of brewed beverages.
You don't represent the globe.

sounds like original research to me
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2023, 07:44:23 AM
I've given both coffee and tea numerous tries/chances but they are still not appealing to me.  My wife especially taken aback by this and often tries to get me to sample whatever random new iteration of coffee or tea she is trying.  Now the one thing I did like that she offered me was whatever the Red Bull laced drink from Dutch Brothers was. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kirbykart on April 24, 2023, 09:24:47 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 23, 2023, 02:08:35 PM
Quote from: bm7 on April 23, 2023, 02:06:03 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on April 22, 2023, 12:29:23 PM
Milk chocolate is overrated.
Chocolate milk is overrated.
Neither is true.

In my opinion, both are true.

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2023, 07:21:29 PM
Coffee tastes like doing your taxes, though.

You like doing your taxes?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 24, 2023, 10:52:08 AM
Quote from: kirbykart on April 22, 2023, 12:29:23 PM
Milk chocolate is overrated.

Yes!  Hershey's milk chocolate is disgusting.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 24, 2023, 12:12:33 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 24, 2023, 10:52:08 AM
Quote from: kirbykart on April 22, 2023, 12:29:23 PM
Milk chocolate is overrated.

Yes!  Hershey's milk chocolate is disgusting.
Pfft.  Fairlife. :D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on April 24, 2023, 03:22:05 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on April 24, 2023, 09:24:47 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 23, 2023, 02:08:35 PM
Quote from: bm7 on April 23, 2023, 02:06:03 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on April 22, 2023, 12:29:23 PM
Milk chocolate is overrated.
Chocolate milk is overrated.
Neither is true.

In my opinion, both are true.

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2023, 07:21:29 PM
Coffee tastes like doing your taxes, though.

You like doing your taxes?

I do. Always have. It's true though that my taxes are not especially complicated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 24, 2023, 03:36:54 PM
I like coffee OK, as long as I put some milk and sugar in it.  It's now part of my Sunday morning routine.  But I still agree that it's overrated.  It's just a hot, caffeinated beverage–not the nectar of the gods that so many people seem to think it is.

Quote from: roadman65 on April 23, 2023, 07:29:15 PM
Not if you go to QT. Their coffee bar has many supplements to add to your coffee, buying it there is great fun.

The bolded part is a gross overstatement.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 24, 2023, 07:48:13 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on April 24, 2023, 09:24:47 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2023, 07:21:29 PM
Coffee tastes like doing your taxes, though.

You like doing your taxes?

I think I like it more than coffee, actually.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 24, 2023, 07:53:53 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on April 24, 2023, 09:24:47 AM
You like doing your taxes?

I did this year. We installed solar so we got $6k back.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on April 24, 2023, 07:56:00 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2023, 07:44:23 AM
I've given both coffee and tea numerous tries/chances but they are still not appealing to me.  My wife especially taken aback by this and often tries to get me to sample whatever random new iteration of coffee or tea she is trying.  Now the one thing I did like that she offered me was whatever the Red Bull laced drink from Dutch Brothers was.

I think some things like coffee and tea are not designed to be, like, delicious or tasty, like a mixed beverage from Dutch Bros. They're just drinks with a particular set of benefits that some may like and some may not.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 24, 2023, 07:57:54 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 24, 2023, 07:53:53 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on April 24, 2023, 09:24:47 AM
You like doing your taxes?

I did this year. We installed solar so we got $6k back.

I had to pay a bunch this year because the idiots in payroll at my wife's job thought they only needed to withhold $39 in taxes for the whole year. That was an unpleasant surprise.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 24, 2023, 08:19:21 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 24, 2023, 07:57:54 PM
I had to pay a bunch this year because the idiots in payroll at my wife's job thought they only needed to withhold $39 in taxes for the whole year. That was an unpleasant surprise.

My boss is payroll.  So, when we switched payroll companies this past year (from Paycom back to ADP), she helped me go over it with a fine-toothed comb to make sure everything would be as similar as possible to what it had been the year before.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on April 25, 2023, 09:32:16 AM
I don't remember what company I was with when this happened. But one year they revised payroll systems and everyone was switched to "Single, No Dependents". Lots of people suddenly had much more withheld, and those that lived paycheck to paycheck were screaming.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 25, 2023, 09:38:03 AM
Quote from: GaryV on April 25, 2023, 09:32:16 AM
I don't remember what company I was with when this happened. But one year they revised payroll systems and everyone was switched to "Single, No Dependents". Lots of people suddenly had much more withheld, and those that lived paycheck to paycheck were screaming.

At least that's something that can be fixed within a couple of pay-periods.  Scott's wife, on the other hand, apparently didn't notice anything was amiss for a whole year (or whatever portion she worked there) and got socked with a much bigger surprise.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on April 25, 2023, 10:01:42 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 25, 2023, 09:38:03 AM
Quote from: GaryV on April 25, 2023, 09:32:16 AM
I don't remember what company I was with when this happened. But one year they revised payroll systems and everyone was switched to "Single, No Dependents". Lots of people suddenly had much more withheld, and those that lived paycheck to paycheck were screaming.

At least that's something that can be fixed within a couple of pay-periods.  Scott's wife, on the other hand, apparently didn't notice anything was amiss for a whole year (or whatever portion she worked there) and got socked with a much bigger surprise.

I don't recall how long it took them to resolve it, but it was a while. Because the withheld funds had been transferred to the government, and there was a hassle to try to get them back. I don't remember how it was resolved, just that it took a while. They got the withholding fixed for future paychecks, but the refund was the problem.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 25, 2023, 10:07:10 AM
Oh, I assumed people just changed their withholding back to what they wanted it to be, and left it at that–not that they tried to square everything up that went sideways in the meantime.  Yeah, I'm sure that was quite an ordeal.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: wanderer2575 on April 25, 2023, 09:56:10 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 24, 2023, 07:57:54 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 24, 2023, 07:53:53 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on April 24, 2023, 09:24:47 AM
You like doing your taxes?

I did this year. We installed solar so we got $6k back.

I had to pay a bunch this year because the idiots in payroll at my wife's job thought they only needed to withhold $39 in taxes for the whole year. That was an unpleasant surprise.

As a payroll professional I have to ask:  Was it an error on the employer's part, or did they withhold correctly based on your wife's Form W-4?  And did your wife review her pay statements during the year and attempt to make a change in withholding?  If the answers are the latter and no, respectively, then your wife and you are the idiots.  I have heard from a LOT of people underwithheld because they didn't understand how the new W-4 (introduced in 2020) works, but that's not Payroll's fault.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 25, 2023, 10:01:26 PM


Quote from: kphoger on April 25, 2023, 10:07:10 AM
Oh, I assumed people just changed their withholding back to what they wanted it to be, and left it at that–not that they tried to square everything up that went sideways in the meantime.  Yeah, I'm sure that was quite an ordeal.

Just changing the withholding back wouldn't be an acceptable solution since the payroll would still be noncompliant with employees W-4s.  People tell companies how much they want withheld.  Holding more in one paycheck means holding less in future ones to make up the difference and ensure the employees' loan to the federal government isn't larger than intended.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on April 25, 2023, 11:01:32 PM
I have to hand it to my former employer.  33 years and correct paychecks, on time, twice a month, every time.

Just switching to a new payroll system shouldn't require new W-4s to be filed.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 26, 2023, 12:04:28 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 25, 2023, 09:38:03 AM
Quote from: GaryV on April 25, 2023, 09:32:16 AM
I don't remember what company I was with when this happened. But one year they revised payroll systems and everyone was switched to "Single, No Dependents". Lots of people suddenly had much more withheld, and those that lived paycheck to paycheck were screaming.

At least that's something that can be fixed within a couple of pay-periods.  Scott's wife, on the other hand, apparently didn't notice anything was amiss for a whole year (or whatever portion she worked there) and got socked with a much bigger surprise.

But wouldn't someone suddenly getting more net take-home pay take, at a very minimum, a cursory review of their pay stub to see what changed? It's hard to say nothing was amiss when "I got a surprise raise I wasn't expecting" would be the amiss.

The whole purpose of the pay stub is to help avoid surprises like these.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: wanderer2575 on April 26, 2023, 09:10:09 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 26, 2023, 12:04:28 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 25, 2023, 09:38:03 AM
Quote from: GaryV on April 25, 2023, 09:32:16 AM
I don't remember what company I was with when this happened. But one year they revised payroll systems and everyone was switched to "Single, No Dependents". Lots of people suddenly had much more withheld, and those that lived paycheck to paycheck were screaming.

At least that's something that can be fixed within a couple of pay-periods.  Scott's wife, on the other hand, apparently didn't notice anything was amiss for a whole year (or whatever portion she worked there) and got socked with a much bigger surprise.

But wouldn't someone suddenly getting more net take-home pay take, at a very minimum, a cursory review of their pay stub to see what changed? It's hard to say nothing was amiss when "I got a surprise raise I wasn't expecting" would be the amiss.

The whole purpose of the pay stub is to help avoid surprises like these.

Review a pay statement?  But that would take away from TikTok and selfie time!  /s

I think this is the one detrimental aspect of electronic pay (direct deposit and paycards).  When there's a paper paycheck the statement is attached whether or not you want it, so there is at least a fighting chance the employee will look at it.  Electronic pay is passive and my experience with statements is that a lot of people don't pick them up (if paper) or go online to view them.  They just know some money goes into their bank accounts every payday and that's all that matters.  At my previous employer, where there was no employee self-service system, I was constantly flooded with requests for reprints of the past X number of pay statements RIGHT NOW for loans/financial assistance/renters/mortgages/etc. because those were the only times people cared about them.

Besides just seeing the gross-to-net, you need to review whether the tax withholding is appropriate for your situation.  An employer changing everyone to Single-0 in a system conversion is wrong.  An employer requiring all new Forms W-4 for a system conversion is wrong.  But if the employer is correctly withholding per the W-4, and it's not enough and you end up owing a boatload at the end of the year, that's your fault, not the employer's.  As I noted, this has been a huge problem with the new W-4, particularly because people don't understand the effect of claiming tax credit amounts.

As for inquiring into the issue of more take-home pay, the other likely possibility (after true ignorance) is the common position of "I'm not going to worry about an error in my favor" without any consideration of future consequences.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 26, 2023, 09:36:26 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 26, 2023, 12:04:28 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 25, 2023, 09:38:03 AM
Quote from: GaryV on April 25, 2023, 09:32:16 AM
I don't remember what company I was with when this happened. But one year they revised payroll systems and everyone was switched to "Single, No Dependents". Lots of people suddenly had much more withheld, and those that lived paycheck to paycheck were screaming.

At least that's something that can be fixed within a couple of pay-periods.  Scott's wife, on the other hand, apparently didn't notice anything was amiss for a whole year (or whatever portion she worked there) and got socked with a much bigger surprise.

But wouldn't someone suddenly getting more net take-home pay take, at a very minimum, a cursory review of their pay stub to see what changed? It's hard to say nothing was amiss when "I got a surprise raise I wasn't expecting" would be the amiss.

The whole purpose of the pay stub is to help avoid surprises like these.

Coming from someone who, until recently, was working my salaried career job and also bartending a couple nights a week where my tips were directly deposited, unless I took the time to look at my bank statement, I wouldn't notice if I was getting paid a little more than before. At the restaurant, we wouldn't know how much the tips were until they were on our paycheck due to tip share and other goodies.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 26, 2023, 12:34:11 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on April 26, 2023, 09:10:09 AM
I think this is the one detrimental aspect of electronic pay (direct deposit and paycards).  When there's a paper paycheck the statement is attached whether or not you want it, so there is at least a fighting chance the employee will look at it.  Electronic pay is passive and my experience with statements is that a lot of people don't pick them up (if paper) or go online to view them.  They just know some money goes into their bank accounts every payday and that's all that matters.  At my previous employer, where there was no employee self-service system, I was constantly flooded with requests for reprints of the past X number of pay statements RIGHT NOW for loans/financial assistance/renters/mortgages/etc. because those were the only times people cared about them.

Besides just seeing the gross-to-net, you need to review whether the tax withholding is appropriate for your situation.  An employer changing everyone to Single-0 in a system conversion is wrong.  An employer requiring all new Forms W-4 for a system conversion is wrong.  But if the employer is correctly withholding per the W-4, and it's not enough and you end up owing a boatload at the end of the year, that's your fault, not the employer's.  As I noted, this has been a huge problem with the new W-4, particularly because people don't understand the effect of claiming tax credit amounts.

As for inquiring into the issue of more take-home pay, the other likely possibility (after true ignorance) is the common position of "I'm not going to worry about an error in my favor" without any consideration of future consequences.

Your electronic copies can also go bye-bye.  When we switched payroll companies this past year, we gave everyone notice to find and save any documents they might need, because at a certain point we would lose access to that data.  One guy apparently didn't get the message or didn't care, except that he later realized he needed copies of his documents from like three years earlier because he still hadn't paid his taxes for that year.  SOL, bud...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 26, 2023, 12:54:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2023, 12:34:11 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on April 26, 2023, 09:10:09 AM
I think this is the one detrimental aspect of electronic pay (direct deposit and paycards).  When there's a paper paycheck the statement is attached whether or not you want it, so there is at least a fighting chance the employee will look at it.  Electronic pay is passive and my experience with statements is that a lot of people don't pick them up (if paper) or go online to view them.  They just know some money goes into their bank accounts every payday and that's all that matters.  At my previous employer, where there was no employee self-service system, I was constantly flooded with requests for reprints of the past X number of pay statements RIGHT NOW for loans/financial assistance/renters/mortgages/etc. because those were the only times people cared about them.

Besides just seeing the gross-to-net, you need to review whether the tax withholding is appropriate for your situation.  An employer changing everyone to Single-0 in a system conversion is wrong.  An employer requiring all new Forms W-4 for a system conversion is wrong.  But if the employer is correctly withholding per the W-4, and it's not enough and you end up owing a boatload at the end of the year, that's your fault, not the employer's.  As I noted, this has been a huge problem with the new W-4, particularly because people don't understand the effect of claiming tax credit amounts.

As for inquiring into the issue of more take-home pay, the other likely possibility (after true ignorance) is the common position of "I'm not going to worry about an error in my favor" without any consideration of future consequences.

Your electronic copies can also go bye-bye.  When we switched payroll companies this past year, we gave everyone notice to find and save any documents they might need, because at a certain point we would lose access to that data.  One guy apparently didn't get the message or didn't care, except that he later realized he needed copies of his documents from like three years earlier because he still hadn't paid his taxes for that year.  SOL, bud...

I had an issue where my current employer needed 10 years of W2s for some ungodly reason during my background check. I reached out to a former employer, and they had switched payroll companies after I had left and it was a mess trying to track that stuff down.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on April 26, 2023, 01:00:33 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2023, 12:34:11 PMYour electronic copies can also go bye-bye.  When we switched payroll companies this past year, we gave everyone notice to find and save any documents they might need, because at a certain point we would lose access to that data.  One guy apparently didn't get the message or didn't care, except that he later realized he needed copies of his documents from like three years earlier because he still hadn't paid his taxes for that year.  SOL, bud...

It really bothers me that financial institutions that dangle the availability of statements in PDF do not keep them accessible in perpetuity.

In a similar vein, when I have to sign paper documents that carry legal weight, I usually try to take at least a camera copy so that the entity asking me to sign is not the only party with a copy.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 26, 2023, 08:45:55 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on April 25, 2023, 09:56:10 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 24, 2023, 07:57:54 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 24, 2023, 07:53:53 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on April 24, 2023, 09:24:47 AM
You like doing your taxes?

I did this year. We installed solar so we got $6k back.

I had to pay a bunch this year because the idiots in payroll at my wife's job thought they only needed to withhold $39 in taxes for the whole year. That was an unpleasant surprise.

As a payroll professional I have to ask:  Was it an error on the employer's part, or did they withhold correctly based on your wife's Form W-4?  And did your wife review her pay statements during the year and attempt to make a change in withholding?  If the answers are the latter and no, respectively, then your wife and you are the idiots.  I have heard from a LOT of people underwithheld because they didn't understand how the new W-4 (introduced in 2020) works, but that's not Payroll's fault.

My CPA was of the opinion that the error was on payroll's end.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: wanderer2575 on April 27, 2023, 09:29:34 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2023, 08:45:55 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on April 25, 2023, 09:56:10 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 24, 2023, 07:57:54 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 24, 2023, 07:53:53 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on April 24, 2023, 09:24:47 AM
You like doing your taxes?

I did this year. We installed solar so we got $6k back.

I had to pay a bunch this year because the idiots in payroll at my wife's job thought they only needed to withhold $39 in taxes for the whole year. That was an unpleasant surprise.

As a payroll professional I have to ask:  Was it an error on the employer's part, or did they withhold correctly based on your wife's Form W-4?  And did your wife review her pay statements during the year and attempt to make a change in withholding?  If the answers are the latter and no, respectively, then your wife and you are the idiots.  I have heard from a LOT of people underwithheld because they didn't understand how the new W-4 (introduced in 2020) works, but that's not Payroll's fault.

My CPA was of the opinion that the error was on payroll's end.

If that's the case (and that's a big "if," but that's for another discussion), bad on them.  But ultimately you're responsible for the tax, whether it's withheld or you pay it out of pocket, so you need to keep an eye on it during the year.  A roadgeek analogy is defensive driving.  If you're in a crash, does it fully matter that the other driver is at fault?  You still have to deal with your car being wrecked.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on April 27, 2023, 04:01:12 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on April 27, 2023, 09:29:34 AM
If that's the case (and that's a big "if," but that's for another discussion), bad on them.  But ultimately you're responsible for the tax, whether it's withheld or you pay it out of pocket, so you need to keep an eye on it during the year.  A roadgeek analogy is defensive driving.  If you're in a crash, does it fully matter that the other driver is at fault?  You still have to deal with your car being wrecked.

This sort of thing is why I download–and review–my pay stub every pay period. Errors can and do happen and when it involves something that could get you hit for tax penalties, it's better to catch it in advance.

Admittedly, I take it further than most people do; I keep a spreadsheet that tracks my gross pay every pay period plus federal and state tax withheld. In the same file I have another worksheet that does the same for my wife and a third one that tracks things like mortgage interest, medical expenses, etc. I started doing that one year when TurboTax found that we had underpaid our estimated taxes. I went through and annualized our income and deductions and significantly reduced the underpayment penalty by doing so, but it took several hours to do. Hence why I now keep a spreadsheet–if I ever have to do that again (and it seems unlikely as long as the current federal tax law is in place), the time-consuming work will already be done.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 27, 2023, 04:16:52 PM
I think my underpayment penalty was something like $7 last year. Worth my time to not make said spreadsheet. :)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 27, 2023, 09:19:18 PM


Quote from: 1995hoo on April 27, 2023, 04:01:12 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on April 27, 2023, 09:29:34 AM
If that's the case (and that's a big "if," but that's for another discussion), bad on them.  But ultimately you're responsible for the tax, whether it's withheld or you pay it out of pocket, so you need to keep an eye on it during the year.  A roadgeek analogy is defensive driving.  If you're in a crash, does it fully matter that the other driver is at fault?  You still have to deal with your car being wrecked.

This sort of thing is why I download–and review–my pay stub every pay period. Errors can and do happen and when it involves something that could get you hit for tax penalties, it's better to catch it in advance.

Admittedly, I take it further than most people do; I keep a spreadsheet that tracks my gross pay every pay period plus federal and state tax withheld. In the same file I have another worksheet that does the same for my wife and a third one that tracks things like mortgage interest, medical expenses, etc. I started doing that one year when TurboTax found that we had underpaid our estimated taxes. I went through and annualized our income and deductions and significantly reduced the underpayment penalty by doing so, but it took several hours to do. Hence why I now keep a spreadsheet–if I ever have to do that again (and it seems unlikely as long as the current federal tax law is in place), the time-consuming work will already be done.

O.o

All I do is try to adjust my W-4 each year to keep my refund to a minimum and my paycheck to a maximum.  Trump's change to it didn't help matters -- a "simpler" form that actually requires more background math and Heaven help you if you try to use the IRS calculator. Takes me a couple of hours to figure it out each year.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 27, 2023, 09:28:11 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on April 27, 2023, 09:29:34 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2023, 08:45:55 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on April 25, 2023, 09:56:10 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 24, 2023, 07:57:54 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 24, 2023, 07:53:53 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on April 24, 2023, 09:24:47 AM
You like doing your taxes?

I did this year. We installed solar so we got $6k back.

I had to pay a bunch this year because the idiots in payroll at my wife's job thought they only needed to withhold $39 in taxes for the whole year. That was an unpleasant surprise.

As a payroll professional I have to ask:  Was it an error on the employer's part, or did they withhold correctly based on your wife's Form W-4?  And did your wife review her pay statements during the year and attempt to make a change in withholding?  If the answers are the latter and no, respectively, then your wife and you are the idiots.  I have heard from a LOT of people underwithheld because they didn't understand how the new W-4 (introduced in 2020) works, but that's not Payroll's fault.

My CPA was of the opinion that the error was on payroll's end.

If that's the case (and that's a big "if," but that's for another discussion), bad on them.  But ultimately you're responsible for the tax, whether it's withheld or you pay it out of pocket, so you need to keep an eye on it during the year.  A roadgeek analogy is defensive driving.  If you're in a crash, does it fully matter that the other driver is at fault?  You still have to deal with your car being wrecked.


My CPA didn't explain the precise place where payroll went wrong, but the way she described it, it sounded like the 3/4 error in the MUTCD–a section of regulations where if one reads the text carelessly they will think it wants them to do X when the exact wording really says to do Y. What I don't get is why nobody on their end sanity checked it and went "Hey, $39 is way the hell too low of a withholding for the amount she's making, maybe we should check that the withholding formula we're using is actually correct".

In any case my wife submitted a new W4 that directs them to add $80 to whatever their bonkers formula spits out, so we shouldn't have this problem again next year.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: NE2 on April 27, 2023, 11:13:01 PM
The off-topic board
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 27, 2023, 11:42:40 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 27, 2023, 09:28:11 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on April 27, 2023, 09:29:34 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2023, 08:45:55 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on April 25, 2023, 09:56:10 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 24, 2023, 07:57:54 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 24, 2023, 07:53:53 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on April 24, 2023, 09:24:47 AM
You like doing your taxes?

I did this year. We installed solar so we got $6k back.

I had to pay a bunch this year because the idiots in payroll at my wife's job thought they only needed to withhold $39 in taxes for the whole year. That was an unpleasant surprise.

As a payroll professional I have to ask:  Was it an error on the employer's part, or did they withhold correctly based on your wife's Form W-4?  And did your wife review her pay statements during the year and attempt to make a change in withholding?  If the answers are the latter and no, respectively, then your wife and you are the idiots.  I have heard from a LOT of people underwithheld because they didn't understand how the new W-4 (introduced in 2020) works, but that's not Payroll's fault.

My CPA was of the opinion that the error was on payroll's end.

If that's the case (and that's a big "if," but that's for another discussion), bad on them.  But ultimately you're responsible for the tax, whether it's withheld or you pay it out of pocket, so you need to keep an eye on it during the year.  A roadgeek analogy is defensive driving.  If you're in a crash, does it fully matter that the other driver is at fault?  You still have to deal with your car being wrecked.


My CPA didn't explain the precise place where payroll went wrong, but the way she described it, it sounded like the 3/4 error in the MUTCD–a section of regulations where if one reads the text carelessly they will think it wants them to do X when the exact wording really says to do Y. What I don't get is why nobody on their end sanity checked it and went "Hey, $39 is way the hell too low of a withholding for the amount she's making, maybe we should check that the withholding formula we're using is actually correct".

In any case my wife submitted a new W4 that directs them to add $80 to whatever their bonkers formula spits out, so we shouldn't have this problem again next year.


Because technically, that's not payroll's job to provide legal or accounting advice.   Everyone thinks the way they would handle a certain tax situation is the 'normal' way everyone would do it, but the tax forms allow for nearly countless options.  They don't know her financial situation or desires.  They don't know what deductions you are taking out, which may be making up for the shortfall on her end.  The W-4 forms allow for a multitude of deduction options, and once someone decides on their deduction, they can choose to have more withholding taken out anyway by declaring a specific amount over and above what the deduction calls for.  People have 2nd jobs and other payment options.  They have stocks and bonds and CDs and investments they can use to pay taxes.  Maybe some people prefer minimum deductions and then pay quarterly payments.  But the point is, payroll or HR doesn't know any of that, and they can't and shouldn't even come close to asking about that.  If the employee submits a W-4 requesting a specific deduction, that's what they process.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 28, 2023, 06:57:13 AM
Yep, I remember in one of my first jobs, Payroll took the prohibition on giving advice for the W-4 very seriously.  Of course, it was for a law firm...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 28, 2023, 07:06:58 AM
Still, you'd think it would at least make them give their own formula a once-over.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 28, 2023, 07:57:59 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2023, 07:06:58 AM
Still, you'd think it would at least make them give their own formula a once-over.
I'd bet it's not their formula and they use third-party software to ensure compliance.

Therefore, they just plug in the numbers that are on people's W-4s.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on April 28, 2023, 08:10:12 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 28, 2023, 07:57:59 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2023, 07:06:58 AM
Still, you'd think it would at least make them give their own formula a once-over.
I'd bet it's not their formula and they use third-party software to ensure compliance.

Therefore, they just plug in the numbers that are on people's W-4s.

I'll take the word of my CPA that they screwed it up over that of random people on a web forum saying they didn't. :D

(Don't really get why everyone's brown-nosing the payroll department at some random casino they don't work at...Not like you'd even want to work there anyway, so kissing up to them doesn't get you anything...)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: zachary_amaryllis on April 28, 2023, 08:22:54 AM
Quote from: bugo on April 04, 2023, 06:35:27 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 28, 2022, 11:32:56 AM
I dont do satellite because of them being slow.
I do cable internet. Its faster.

That's because you are fortunate enough to live where there is cable internet. My family in Arkansas lives in a secluded rural area and the only kind of internet they can get is satellite. It sucks, but what are you going to do, use dialup?
Same here, but in a canyon in Colorado. Hughesnet sucks in ways I didn't think possible, but it's either dialup, or this.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 28, 2023, 08:42:40 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2023, 08:10:12 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 28, 2023, 07:57:59 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2023, 07:06:58 AM
Still, you'd think it would at least make them give their own formula a once-over.
I'd bet it's not their formula and they use third-party software to ensure compliance.

Therefore, they just plug in the numbers that are on people's W-4s.

I'll take the word of my CPA that they screwed it up over that of random people on a web forum saying they didn't. :D

(Don't really get why everyone's brown-nosing the payroll department at some random casino they don't work at...Not like you'd even want to work there anyway, so kissing up to them doesn't get you anything...)
Taking the word of your CPA is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: wanderer2575 on April 28, 2023, 09:37:07 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 28, 2023, 07:57:59 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2023, 07:06:58 AM
Still, you'd think it would at least make them give their own formula a once-over.
I'd bet it's not their formula and they use third-party software to ensure compliance.

I always tested the system each year by doing some calculations by hand and comparing to what the system calculated.  Vendors are human, and mistakes can happen.  If it's wrong, my customers (the company employees) will be coming for my throat, not for the vendor's.

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2023, 08:10:12 AM
I'll take the word of my CPA that they screwed it up over that of random people on a web forum saying they didn't. :D

Again speaking as a payroll professional, I say I'll take the CPA's word when it comes to accounting and preparing tax returns.  Calculating withholding, not so much.  I've had many employees over the years come to me with "My accountant says I can ask you to..." and a withholding scheme ranging from weird to outright criminal.  The CPA is concerned only with his client's (that's you) interests, which often is trying to get withholding to be a specific amount, and also very well may include making you feel good that an unfavorable situation isn't your fault.  (Certainly I concede that without the details to look at your situation, I can't say for certain that it wasn't the employer's goof.)

TL;DR:  I don't tell accountants how to handle asset depreciation, and I don't assume they know how withholding works.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 28, 2023, 04:07:00 PM
My co-worker is now on a rant because Wal-Mart has recently been keeping the checking account hold for grocery pickup for a week, and now today the record of it from last week has completely dropped off her account.  She balances her checking account in Excel, but now the data isn't there to track.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 28, 2023, 04:08:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2023, 04:07:00 PM
My co-worker is now on a rant because Wal-Mart has recently been keeping the checking account hold for grocery pickup for a week, and now today the record of it from last week has completely dropped off her account.  She balances her checking account in Excel, but now the data isn't there to track.

Checking account holds for week that actually hit your balance?  I wouldn't use the service.

And why wouldn't a hold just drop off the account after fulfillment?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 28, 2023, 04:12:01 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 28, 2023, 04:08:27 PM
And why wouldn't a hold just drop off the account after fulfillment?

It still hasn't been fulfilled, but it doesn't show pending either.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 28, 2023, 04:40:45 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on April 28, 2023, 09:37:07 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 28, 2023, 07:57:59 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2023, 07:06:58 AM
Still, you'd think it would at least make them give their own formula a once-over.
I'd bet it's not their formula and they use third-party software to ensure compliance.

I always tested the system each year by doing some calculations by hand and comparing to what the system calculated.  Vendors are human, and mistakes can happen.  If it's wrong, my customers (the company employees) will be coming for my throat, not for the vendor's.

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2023, 08:10:12 AM
I'll take the word of my CPA that they screwed it up over that of random people on a web forum saying they didn't. :D

Again speaking as a payroll professional, I say I'll take the CPA's word when it comes to accounting and preparing tax returns.  Calculating withholding, not so much.  I've had many employees over the years come to me with "My accountant says I can ask you to..." and a withholding scheme ranging from weird to outright criminal.  The CPA is concerned only with his client's (that's you) interests, which often is trying to get withholding to be a specific amount, and also very well may include making you feel good that an unfavorable situation isn't your fault.  (Certainly I concede that without the details to look at your situation, I can't say for certain that it wasn't the employer's goof.)

TL;DR:  I don't tell accountants how to handle asset depreciation, and I don't assume they know how withholding works.


I will say, I went to school as an accountant.  I graduated as an accountant.  But I don't do my own taxes.  I take them to a CPA.  Too much to comprehend based on my tax situation with my wife running a small business.  I can probably figure it out on my own, but for the price I pay, it's much easier to give it to someone else and let them take care of it.  I basically have everything ready as it is.  I hand everything over in a envelope, wait a week, and get my completed return back.  If I have questions, they can answer them.  If I need advice, they can provide advice.  But I'm more comfortable with them doing it with the updated information that comes out, often in the middle of tax season.

I too had a tax situation many years ago where I wrote a big check come April 15.  That sucked.  Big time.  But I don't recall anyone playing the blame game.  I more remember it being a case of "Do this (update your W-4), so you don't need to do this again next year (write another big check)".  I was more worried about fees or penalties from the IRS.  The CPA assured me the IRS doesn't actually care too much if you can get a payment in on time; they tend to overlook the small stuff.

Over the years, I learned the IRS tends to overlook a lot of small stuff, especially in those early days of that small business.  We used to get letters all the time.  Often it because we sent in money...but didn't send in the forms to show how to apply the money.  The IRS was actually very decent to work with as long as you don't ignore them.  If there was a small interest or penalty, it was that - small.  Pay it, and everyone was happy.

The State was actually a lot more buggy.  We would get a notice saying they didn't receive a form...from years prior...and owed penalties and interest due to that.  At that point, we had no proof one way or another we sent the form in.  I wrote a letter with the form, which they quickly rejected...yet I never heard anything again.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on April 28, 2023, 04:48:40 PM
This year I had to pay a penalty. I had made a large transfer in the 4th quarter, so I made an estimated payment, which ended up more than covering it, I'm getting a refund. But because I didn't make 4 quarterly estimated payments, they charged me.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2023, 05:30:13 PM
Based on another thread where kphoger posted... zucchini. Talk about a vegetable that has zero flavor.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on April 28, 2023, 05:50:35 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2023, 05:30:13 PM
Based on another thread where kphoger posted... zucchini. Talk about a vegetable that has zero flavor.

I'd say it has a negative flavor, though I'll take it narrowly over steamed broccoli.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on April 28, 2023, 05:53:20 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2023, 05:30:13 PM
Talk about a vegetable that has zero flavor.

OK.  Would you rather I talk about cucumbers or jicama?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on April 28, 2023, 06:14:04 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2023, 05:30:13 PM
Based on another thread where kphoger posted... zucchini. Talk about a vegetable that has zero flavor.

I tried some fried squash once, and it tasted like dirt. Literal dirt, like as in soil. The only vegetables I will eat are corn, carrots and potatoes.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on April 28, 2023, 06:16:22 PM
Quote from: GaryV on April 28, 2023, 04:48:40 PM
This year I had to pay a penalty. I had made a large transfer in the 4th quarter, so I made an estimated payment, which ended up more than covering it, I'm getting a refund. But because I didn't make 4 quarterly estimated payments, they charged me.


That's what I was referring to earlier about annualizing income and deductions. The IRS assumes that you make money fairly evenly over the course of the year, which for most people is correct. But if you get a particularly large amount of income in one quarter, it can throw that off. So if you can show that more of your income came in a particular quarter and that you paid your estimated taxes accordingly, you can reduce or eliminate the penalty. But, as is also noted above, it may not be worth the trouble depending on what the penalty is.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on April 28, 2023, 10:08:47 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 28, 2023, 08:42:40 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2023, 08:10:12 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 28, 2023, 07:57:59 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2023, 07:06:58 AM
Still, you'd think it would at least make them give their own formula a once-over.
I'd bet it's not their formula and they use third-party software to ensure compliance.

Therefore, they just plug in the numbers that are on people's W-4s.

I'll take the word of my CPA that they screwed it up over that of random people on a web forum saying they didn't. :D

(Don't really get why everyone's brown-nosing the payroll department at some random casino they don't work at...Not like you'd even want to work there anyway, so kissing up to them doesn't get you anything...)
Taking the word of your CPA is overrated.

Whose word should I take?  Anonymous strangers on the internet?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 28, 2023, 10:47:41 PM
Quote from: kkt on April 28, 2023, 10:08:47 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 28, 2023, 08:42:40 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2023, 08:10:12 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 28, 2023, 07:57:59 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 28, 2023, 07:06:58 AM
Still, you'd think it would at least make them give their own formula a once-over.
I'd bet it's not their formula and they use third-party software to ensure compliance.

Therefore, they just plug in the numbers that are on people's W-4s.

I'll take the word of my CPA that they screwed it up over that of random people on a web forum saying they didn't. :D

(Don't really get why everyone's brown-nosing the payroll department at some random casino they don't work at...Not like you'd even want to work there anyway, so kissing up to them doesn't get you anything...)
Taking the word of your CPA is overrated.

Whose word should I take?  Anonymous strangers on the internet?
Mine.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: SSOWorld on April 28, 2023, 11:09:09 PM
Rothman is overrated (╯‵□′)╯︵┻━┻
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 28, 2023, 11:33:04 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 28, 2023, 11:09:09 PM
Rothman is overrated (╯‵□′)╯︵┻━┻
As we all are.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 29, 2023, 02:35:30 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 28, 2023, 05:53:20 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 28, 2023, 05:30:13 PM
Talk about a vegetable that has zero flavor.

OK.  Would you rather I talk about cucumbers or jicama?

Both of those have more flavor than zucchini. Zucchini is the vegetable version of the "no temperature temperature".
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on April 29, 2023, 08:48:46 AM
Cucumbers are overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on April 29, 2023, 01:59:50 PM
Zucchinis are also the gift from friends, neighbors and relatives that keep on giving, and giving, and giving . . .

:-o

mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 29, 2023, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on April 29, 2023, 01:59:50 PM
Zucchinis are also the gift from friends, neighbors and relatives that keep on giving, and giving, and giving . . .

:-o

mike

Got a grill?  Cut them thick, season them up and cook them on there.  Taste great!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kirbykart on April 30, 2023, 04:49:38 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 29, 2023, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on April 29, 2023, 01:59:50 PM
Zucchinis are also the gift from friends, neighbors and relatives that keep on giving, and giving, and giving . . .

:-o

mike

Got a grill?  Cut them thick, season them up and cook them on there.  Taste great!

Taste like the seasoning you put on them.

Quote from: Rothman on April 29, 2023, 08:48:46 AM
Cucumbers are overrated.

Yes!!!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 30, 2023, 05:04:54 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 29, 2023, 03:30:30 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on April 29, 2023, 01:59:50 PM
Zucchinis are also the gift from friends, neighbors and relatives that keep on giving, and giving, and giving . . .

:-o

mike

Got a grill?  Cut them thick, season them up and cook them on there.  Taste great!

The year my wife planted them in the garden we got a huge yield.  I had grilled Zucchini on almost everything for a solid month, good times.  I'm surprised she didn't want to grow Zucchini again given it is one of the few crops that really took to growing in the yard.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CoreySamson on May 19, 2023, 04:29:09 PM
Cake, cookies, and brownies are all overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on May 19, 2023, 04:37:01 PM
Cell phones and the GPS.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 19, 2023, 04:39:28 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 19, 2023, 04:29:09 PM
Cake, cookies, and brownies are all overrated.

I can agree on cake and brownies, but I'm a sucker for cookies.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on May 19, 2023, 06:09:39 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 19, 2023, 04:29:09 PM
Cake, cookies, and brownies are all overrated.

Only in terms of what people think it takes to make them.

My wife makes brownies (from mixes) for various events all the time. You dump the stuff into a bowl, mix it up, pour it into the cake pan and bake it.

Cookies are a little more effort - for one thing, you have to scoop them out individually - but still pretty easy.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on May 19, 2023, 09:28:20 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 19, 2023, 04:29:09 PM
Cake, cookies, and brownies are all overrated.

Great, more for me!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 19, 2023, 09:50:10 PM
Cookies are so great they even have a mascot monster.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on May 19, 2023, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 19, 2023, 04:29:09 PM
Cake, cookies, and brownies are all overrated.
Wrong on all accounts.  They are all properly rated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on May 20, 2023, 12:27:30 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 19, 2023, 04:29:09 PM
Cake, cookies, and brownies are all overrated.

Depends on what (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis) you put in them.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: plain on May 20, 2023, 06:54:00 PM
Quote from: bugo on May 20, 2023, 12:27:30 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 19, 2023, 04:29:09 PM
Cake, cookies, and brownies are all overrated.

Depends on what (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis) you put in them.

:-D :-D :-D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Big John on May 20, 2023, 08:23:59 PM
Quote from: plain on May 20, 2023, 06:54:00 PM
Quote from: bugo on May 20, 2023, 12:27:30 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 19, 2023, 04:29:09 PM
Cake, cookies, and brownies are all overrated.

Depends on what (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis) you put in them.

:-D :-D :-D
I presume you like them "plain"
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 20, 2023, 08:40:39 PM
Quote from: Big John on May 20, 2023, 08:23:59 PM
Quote from: plain on May 20, 2023, 06:54:00 PM
Quote from: bugo on May 20, 2023, 12:27:30 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 19, 2023, 04:29:09 PM
Cake, cookies, and brownies are all overrated.

Depends on what (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis) you put in them.

:-D :-D :-D
I presume you like them "plain"

Marijuana products make me paranoid for some reason.  For that reason I'm calling them subjectively overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kirbykart on May 22, 2023, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 19, 2023, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 19, 2023, 04:29:09 PM
Cake, cookies, and brownies are all overrated.
Wrong on all accounts.  They are all properly rated.

By whom? The ESRB? The Motion Picture Association? Karen on Amazon?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on May 22, 2023, 10:45:58 AM
Quote from: kirbykart on May 22, 2023, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 19, 2023, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 19, 2023, 04:29:09 PM
Cake, cookies, and brownies are all overrated.
Wrong on all accounts.  They are all properly rated.

By whom? The ESRB? The Motion Picture Association? Karen on Amazon?

Nerd Wallet, of course.   :-/
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: dlsterner on May 22, 2023, 03:05:18 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on May 22, 2023, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 19, 2023, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 19, 2023, 04:29:09 PM
Cake, cookies, and brownies are all overrated.
Wrong on all accounts.  They are all properly rated.

By whom? The ESRB? The Motion Picture Association? Karen on Amazon?

Wallethub, of course
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 22, 2023, 03:49:08 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on May 22, 2023, 03:05:18 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on May 22, 2023, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 19, 2023, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 19, 2023, 04:29:09 PM
Cake, cookies, and brownies are all overrated.
Wrong on all accounts.  They are all properly rated.

By whom? The ESRB? The Motion Picture Association? Karen on Amazon?

Wallethub, of course

Yes, as we have all been advised the powers that be at Wallethub are never incorrect.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=31553.0
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 29, 2023, 11:47:23 AM
Cake doughnuts
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on June 29, 2023, 11:50:45 AM
Quote from: kphoger on June 29, 2023, 11:47:23 AM
Cake doughnuts

Only mildly good if dipped into coffee. I'm in agreement. I'm an apple fritter guy myself.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on June 29, 2023, 08:57:08 PM
Despite all the ad blitzes everywhere:  Temu.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on June 29, 2023, 10:37:41 PM
Gruyere cheese.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 30, 2023, 09:51:28 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 29, 2023, 10:37:41 PM
Gruyere cheese.

No cheese is overrated.  All of it is awesome.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 10:13:10 AM
Quote from: kphoger on June 30, 2023, 09:51:28 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 29, 2023, 10:37:41 PM
Gruyere cheese.

No cheese is overrated.  All of it is awesome.

I'd argue American cheese and "Swiss" Cheese are overrated. Any actual cheese, not cheese product, is awesome.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 30, 2023, 10:53:31 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 10:13:10 AM
I'd argue American cheese

I said "cheese".  That's not cheese.

Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 10:13:10 AM
"Swiss" Cheese

Swiss cheese is awesome.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on June 30, 2023, 11:15:04 AM
Quote from: kphoger on June 30, 2023, 09:51:28 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 29, 2023, 10:37:41 PM
Gruyere cheese.

No cheese is overrated.  All of it is awesome.
Heh.  I like it, but some people speak of Gruyere as if it were ambrosia.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on June 30, 2023, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 30, 2023, 11:15:04 AM
some people speak of Gruyere as if it were ambrosia.

Still?  I think of that as being a ... ummm ... an early-to-late '00s kind of thing?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on June 30, 2023, 11:20:56 AM
Quote from: kphoger on June 30, 2023, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: Rothman on June 30, 2023, 11:15:04 AM
some people speak of Gruyere as if it were ambrosia.

Still?  I think of that as being a ... ummm ... an early-to-late '00s kind of thing?
Heh.  Cheese enthusiasm trends. :D
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Big John on June 30, 2023, 11:24:03 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKp0iDZ9a_s

and I agree that American "cheese" is not real cheese.  But it is being forced on us instead of real cheese.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 11:51:31 AM
Quote from: kphoger on June 30, 2023, 10:53:31 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 10:13:10 AM
"Swiss" Cheese

Swiss cheese is awesome.

I like Swiss cheese. I was referring to Kraft White Packaged Cheese Stuff. That stuff is whack. If it doesn't have a hole in it, it's not Swiss cheese.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CoreySamson on June 30, 2023, 05:06:57 PM
Cheese by itself is overrated. Cheese on things is under-to-properly rated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 05:11:15 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on June 30, 2023, 05:06:57 PM
Cheese by itself is overrated. Cheese on things is under-to-properly rated.

Having a bit of Comte with a glass of Jura is heaven my friend.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on June 30, 2023, 05:12:10 PM
Cheese by itself is underrated, cheese on other things is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: wriddle082 on June 30, 2023, 05:24:33 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 30, 2023, 05:12:10 PM
Cheese by itself is underrated, cheese on other things is overrated.

I agree!

Back to cake, it and cupcakes are very overrated.  Especially when the ratio of frosting to cake is too high on the frosting side.  And why is "birthday cake flavor"  a thing?  It's just colored sugar, people!

Cookies, doughnuts, and ice cream are properly rated.  Brownies, pie, cheesecake, and cobbler are very underrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 05:36:42 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 30, 2023, 05:12:10 PM
Cheese by itself is underrated, cheese on other things is overrated.

I can mostly get behind this as well. For instance, a cheeseburger vs. a hamburger. Do you actually taste the cheese once you have other toppings and condiments? Unless it's something spicy like pepperjack, the answer is barely.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Big John on June 30, 2023, 05:39:21 PM
^^ When I order a cheeseburger, it is not to have other toppings, bacon excepted.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 05:54:40 PM
Quote from: Big John on June 30, 2023, 05:39:21 PM
^^ When I order a cheeseburger, it is not to have other toppings, bacon excepted.

So you're a meat, cheese, bun kinda guy?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Big John on June 30, 2023, 05:55:40 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 05:54:40 PM
Quote from: Big John on June 30, 2023, 05:39:21 PM
^^ When I order a cheeseburger, it is not to have other toppings, bacon excepted.

So you're a meat, cheese, bun kinda guy?
yes
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on June 30, 2023, 06:15:00 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 05:36:42 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 30, 2023, 05:12:10 PM
Cheese by itself is underrated, cheese on other things is overrated.

I can mostly get behind this as well. For instance, a cheeseburger vs. a hamburger. Do you actually taste the cheese once you have other toppings and condiments? Unless it's something spicy like pepperjack, the answer is barely.
Cheeseburgers are the exception for me. They taste too dry and bland without cheese, even if they have other condiments.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 06:54:44 PM
I must just do "fancier" burgers than you guys.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: skluth on June 30, 2023, 07:03:09 PM
Probably. I don't like either bacon or cheese on my burger, especially if that cheese is of the processed kind. Most processed cheese is an abomination.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: vdeane on June 30, 2023, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on June 30, 2023, 05:24:33 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 30, 2023, 05:12:10 PM
Cheese by itself is underrated, cheese on other things is overrated.

I agree!

Back to cake, it and cupcakes are very overrated.  Especially when the ratio of frosting to cake is too high on the frosting side.  And why is "birthday cake flavor"  a thing?  It's just colored sugar, people!

Cookies, doughnuts, and ice cream are properly rated.  Brownies, pie, cheesecake, and cobbler are very underrated.

For me, pie is overrated, but then, I come from a family that is very into pie and I'm more of a cake person.  I also tend to prefer sweeter frosting than everyone else I know, for some reason.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on June 30, 2023, 09:14:14 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 05:36:42 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 30, 2023, 05:12:10 PM
Cheese by itself is underrated, cheese on other things is overrated.

I can mostly get behind this as well. For instance, a cheeseburger vs. a hamburger. Do you actually taste the cheese once you have other toppings and condiments? Unless it's something spicy like pepperjack, the answer is barely.

YES, I do actually taste the cheese, especially if it is GOOD cheese like Gruyere.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on June 30, 2023, 10:57:26 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 30, 2023, 09:14:14 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 05:36:42 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 30, 2023, 05:12:10 PM
Cheese by itself is underrated, cheese on other things is overrated.

I can mostly get behind this as well. For instance, a cheeseburger vs. a hamburger. Do you actually taste the cheese once you have other toppings and condiments? Unless it's something spicy like pepperjack, the answer is barely.

YES, I do actually taste the cheese, especially if it is GOOD cheese like Gruyere.
But Gruyere is overrated
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on July 01, 2023, 06:46:16 AM
Quote from: vdeane on June 30, 2023, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on June 30, 2023, 05:24:33 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 30, 2023, 05:12:10 PM
Cheese by itself is underrated, cheese on other things is overrated.

I agree!

Back to cake, it and cupcakes are very overrated.  Especially when the ratio of frosting to cake is too high on the frosting side.  And why is "birthday cake flavor"  a thing?  It's just colored sugar, people!

Cookies, doughnuts, and ice cream are properly rated.  Brownies, pie, cheesecake, and cobbler are very underrated.

For me, pie is overrated, but then, I come from a family that is very into pie and I'm more of a cake person.  I also tend to prefer sweeter frosting than everyone else I know, for some reason.

My daughter would not like you. She rates pie very much over cake. She even had pie at her wedding.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on July 01, 2023, 08:47:40 AM
I had pie at mine as well.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on July 01, 2023, 01:27:45 PM
I especially like to go with that most 'American' cheese of all - Colby'.   :nod:  In fact, if the USA operated under that came trademark rules as much of Europe does, it could not be sold as 'Colby' if it was not made within a 100km radius of Colby, WI (When was the last time you heard Blue Cheese referred to as 'Roquefort'?).

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on July 01, 2023, 04:13:11 PM
I believe Asiago and Sriracha are overrated as it seems those cheese crazes at various restaurants have run their course.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on July 01, 2023, 10:31:05 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 01, 2023, 04:13:11 PM
I believe Asiago and Sriracha are overrated as it seems those cheese crazes at various restaurants have run their course.

Sriracha isn't a cheese...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 10:00:18 AM
Fireworks.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on July 05, 2023, 11:55:23 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 10:00:18 AM
Fireworks.
That's an interesting one.  I don't know.  They seem appropriately rated to me.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 12:16:13 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 05, 2023, 11:55:23 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 10:00:18 AM
Fireworks.
That's an interesting one.  I don't know.  They seem appropriately rated to me.

I mean, how many times does one need to see the same thing they've seen 30+ times before? Yay. Colors in the sky or big noise. Super exciting. I get why kids like them. I don't understand the appeal to adults.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on July 05, 2023, 03:00:45 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 12:16:13 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 05, 2023, 11:55:23 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 10:00:18 AM
Fireworks.
That's an interesting one.  I don't know.  They seem appropriately rated to me.

I mean, how many times does one need to see the same thing they've seen 30+ times before? Yay. Colors in the sky or big noise. Super exciting. I get why kids like them. I don't understand the appeal to adults.

They're great to photograph...but I don't get the appeal of spending the money on it more than once. "Hey, I just spent $400 on a crummier version of what the professionals will do for pretty much for free" just doesn't compute.

And they're annoying when you have to work in the morning the next day, never mind how one of my dogs goes batshit crazy and needs to be consoled. My kids are over it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on July 05, 2023, 03:03:34 PM
Quote from: formulanone on July 05, 2023, 03:00:45 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 12:16:13 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 05, 2023, 11:55:23 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 10:00:18 AM
Fireworks.
That's an interesting one.  I don't know.  They seem appropriately rated to me.

I mean, how many times does one need to see the same thing they've seen 30+ times before? Yay. Colors in the sky or big noise. Super exciting. I get why kids like them. I don't understand the appeal to adults.

They're great to photograph...but I don't get the appeal of spending the money on it more than once. "Hey, I just spent $400 on a crummier version of what the professionals will do for pretty much for free" just doesn't compute.

And they're annoying when you have to work in the morning the next day.
There are certainly enthusiasts that will shell out all sorts of money to shoot them off, but I think they're a minority.  The rest of us either like them or have dogs.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 03:08:05 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 05, 2023, 03:03:34 PM
Quote from: formulanone on July 05, 2023, 03:00:45 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 12:16:13 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 05, 2023, 11:55:23 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 10:00:18 AM
Fireworks.
That's an interesting one.  I don't know.  They seem appropriately rated to me.

I mean, how many times does one need to see the same thing they've seen 30+ times before? Yay. Colors in the sky or big noise. Super exciting. I get why kids like them. I don't understand the appeal to adults.

They're great to photograph...but I don't get the appeal of spending the money on it more than once. "Hey, I just spent $400 on a crummier version of what the professionals will do for pretty much for free" just doesn't compute.

And they're annoying when you have to work in the morning the next day.
There are certainly enthusiasts that will shell out all sorts of money to shoot them off, but I think they're a minority.  The rest of us either like them or have dogs.

Add in the fact that some yahoos in my neighborhood have been shooting them off for three weeks already, almost every night. "Hey Karen, do you want to go see the same quick flash of light in the sky every night for the next three weeks? I swear, it'll blow your mind every time, and it's a good build up to the 4th."
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on July 05, 2023, 08:38:19 PM
I'm glad that my dog is old enough she had no clue that anything at all unusual was going on last night.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on July 06, 2023, 12:46:43 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 05, 2023, 08:38:19 PM
I'm glad that my dog is old enough she had no clue that anything at all unusual was going on last night.

I wish that were the case more often, my girlfriend has a 13 year old ... something ... and they have to drug him up every single year. And every year he barely makes it through.

Come to think of it, I'm starting to wonder if the drugs are exacerbating the situation :-/.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on July 06, 2023, 12:20:02 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 12:16:13 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 05, 2023, 11:55:23 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 10:00:18 AM
Fireworks.
That's an interesting one.  I don't know.  They seem appropriately rated to me.

I mean, how many times does one need to see the same thing they've seen 30+ times before? Yay. Colors in the sky or big noise. Super exciting. I get why kids like them. I don't understand the appeal to adults.

My interest in fireworks was pretty much killed by year after year of people setting off their fireworks until 2 or 3 in the morning, on years when the calendar was like this year's with July 5 as a working day.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on July 06, 2023, 01:53:36 PM
Quote from: kkt on July 06, 2023, 12:20:02 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 12:16:13 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 05, 2023, 11:55:23 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 10:00:18 AM
Fireworks.
That's an interesting one.  I don't know.  They seem appropriately rated to me.

I mean, how many times does one need to see the same thing they've seen 30+ times before? Yay. Colors in the sky or big noise. Super exciting. I get why kids like them. I don't understand the appeal to adults.

My interest in fireworks was pretty much killed by year after year of people setting off their fireworks until 2 or 3 in the morning, on years when the calendar was like this year's with July 5 as a working day.

My ranting stems from a similar situation the other night, but really, setting off a firework as an adult is the equivalent getting tickled pink after using a jack-in-the-box.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on July 18, 2023, 06:00:16 PM
Stilton cheese
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on July 18, 2023, 10:40:13 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 18, 2023, 06:00:16 PM
Stilton cheese

Stilton is fine. Great with port. Average on its own.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on July 18, 2023, 10:48:53 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 18, 2023, 10:40:13 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 18, 2023, 06:00:16 PM
Stilton cheese

Stilton is fine. Great with port. Average on its own.
It tastes like a farm smells.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on July 19, 2023, 11:09:33 AM
TikTok.

What function, exactly, does TikTok perform that cannot be found on Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on July 19, 2023, 11:37:34 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 19, 2023, 11:09:33 AM
TikTok.

What function, exactly, does TikTok perform that cannot be found on Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube?
I find Facebook Reels ineffective and YouTube doesn't have the same "channel surfing" ability that TikTok does.  TikTok is just short bits of entertainment.  Don't like what you see in the first five seconds?  Swipe up.

That said, I've never been on Instagram.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 19, 2023, 11:37:34 AM
TikTok is just short bits of entertainment.  Don't like what you see in the first five seconds?  Swipe up.
And swipe up again . . . and again . . . and again . . . until you realize you've wasted the last 2 hours of your life doing absolutely nothing except destroying your own attention span and ability to focus.

I wonder why so many people are diagnosing themselves with ADHD nowadays . . .

I've been on this forum long enough to know that the response to this is going to be "well my attention span is just fine!"  Don't even bother. Studies, surveys, and clear resulting effects of decreased attention span since short-form video has taken over show that this absolutely is a real thing regardless of what your personal experience reflects.

Though it should be mentioned that TikTok is not the only guilty party, it's just the worst of several.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hotdogPi on July 21, 2023, 04:27:57 PM
Better than swiping on a different app for a different reason...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on July 21, 2023, 04:46:49 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 19, 2023, 11:37:34 AM
TikTok is just short bits of entertainment.  Don't like what you see in the first five seconds?  Swipe up.
And swipe up again . . . and again . . . and again . . . until you realize you've wasted the last 2 hours of your life doing absolutely nothing except destroying your own attention span and ability to focus.

I wonder why so many people are diagnosing themselves with ADHD nowadays . . .

I've been on this forum long enough to know that the response to this is going to be "well my attention span is just fine!"  Don't even bother. Studies, surveys, and clear resulting effects of decreased attention span since short-form video has taken over show that this absolutely is a real thing regardless of what your personal experience reflects.

Though it should be mentioned that TikTok is not the only guilty party, it's just the worst of several.

The GPS too.  As road signs are in a normal cone of a drivers vision, the average driver seems to not see them nor does it attract their attention either especially if a first timer on the road.  With the latter said, if you're on a strange road normal reaction would be to be paying attention to detail to surroundings which means guide signs would be captured by your focus first.

Yet as a former toll collector I can't tell you how many people are unaware that they are on a toll road despite all FL Route shields display the word TOLL on them especially at entrance ramps to the toll roads.  Why? Because the technology we have creates a short attention span these days and that's why the high dependency on it, thus causing more attention problems.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on July 21, 2023, 05:21:03 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 19, 2023, 11:37:34 AM
TikTok is just short bits of entertainment.  Don't like what you see in the first five seconds?  Swipe up.
And swipe up again . . . and aga

I stopped reading.  What did you say?  :-D :-D

I remember reading a story that talked about 1 minute commercials being the norm, before they became 30 second commercials, because of minimizing attention span.  Today you see more 15 second commercials, or even shorter. 

So that diminishing span has always been decreasing.  We can just do it faster now.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on July 21, 2023, 06:15:20 PM


Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 19, 2023, 11:37:34 AM
TikTok is just short bits of entertainment.  Don't like what you see in the first five seconds?  Swipe up.
And swipe up again . . . and again . . . and again . . . until you realize you've wasted the last 2 hours of your life doing absolutely nothing except destroying your own attention span and ability to focus.

I wonder why so many people are diagnosing themselves with ADHD nowadays . . .

I've been on this forum long enough to know that the response to this is going to be "well my attention span is just fine!"  Don't even bother. Studies, surveys, and clear resulting effects of decreased attention span since short-form video has taken over show that this absolutely is a real thing regardless of what your personal experience reflects.

Though it should be mentioned that TikTok is not the only guilty party, it's just the worst of several.

If you're sitting in front of a TV just channel surfing with a remote, it's the same thing, so attention span deficits have been around for a good long while.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on July 21, 2023, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
I wonder why so many people are diagnosing themselves with ADHD nowadays . . .

I've been on this forum long enough to know that the response to this is going to be "well my attention span is just fine!"  Don't even bother. Studies, surveys, and clear resulting effects of decreased attention span since short-form video has taken over show that this absolutely is a real thing regardless of what your personal experience reflects.

You've got it backward–people have the attention span problems first, then gravitate toward TikTok because it complements the way their mind works.

When I had an ADHD friend comment that I probably had it too based on some of my personality traits, my research into it was basically a recurring series of "Oh, that explains why when I was 8 I had problem doing X, Y, and Z". It wasn't something Borne From Modern Societal Ills, it was something that was always a part of me. It simply didn't become apparent until the pandemic gifted me a large amount of unstructured free time. (And, of course my parents didn't notice anything amiss, because they do the same damn stuff I do, and have convinced themselves it's normal. I would guess that if they sought a diagnosis, they could probably get one. Which makes sense–ADHD is genetic. I have an aunt with it too, who was diagnosed in her late 60s.)

(That said, I personally don't do TikTok because my brain is corrupted in such a way that I struggle to pay attention to any sort of video content at all.)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2023, 07:27:31 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 21, 2023, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
I wonder why so many people are diagnosing themselves with ADHD nowadays . . .

I've been on this forum long enough to know that the response to this is going to be "well my attention span is just fine!"  Don't even bother. Studies, surveys, and clear resulting effects of decreased attention span since short-form video has taken over show that this absolutely is a real thing regardless of what your personal experience reflects.

You've got it backward–people have the attention span problems first, then gravitate toward TikTok because it complements the way their mind works.

When I had an ADHD friend comment that I probably had it too based on some of my personality traits, my research into it was basically a recurring series of "Oh, that explains why when I was 8 I had problem doing X, Y, and Z". It wasn't something Borne From Modern Societal Ills, it was something that was always a part of me. It simply didn't become apparent until the pandemic gifted me a large amount of unstructured free time. (And, of course my parents didn't notice anything amiss, because they do the same damn stuff I do, and have convinced themselves it's normal. I would guess that if they sought a diagnosis, they could probably get one. Which makes sense–ADHD is genetic. I have an aunt with it too, who was diagnosed in her late 60s.)

(That said, I personally don't do TikTok because my brain is corrupted in such a way that I struggle to pay attention to any sort of video content at all.)

I was medically diagnosed with ADHD back during the 1980s when I was a kid well before social media anything existed.  I don't really understand the purpose of things like TikTok and I don't have an account.  I tend to not really engage in much social media as I don't even have stuff like Twitter and barely have a basic understanding of things like Instagram. 

For what it's worth, I definitely do have ADHD and so did my dad.  My attention span most of the time is going multiple places.  At work fortunately splitting my focus constantly onto several things is a virtue.  This isn't so much at home when I annoy my wife by not paying attention solely to her. 

To that end, I've never considered myself "damaged"  mentality and feel comfortable using my ADHD diagnosis as a crutch.  I haven't taken medication for ADHD symptoms since the 6th grade since they used to just make me feel terrible.

The notion that services like TiKTok is causing a spike in ADHD cases is laughable.  My niece has been on TikTok all week at my house, she doesn't display any symptoms of ADHD and can easily focus.  The reason she used TikTok is because she's bored and legitimately has nothing to better to do with her summer.  We'll see how that changes when she gets older, soon she will be up for a driver's license and possibly a part time job.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on July 21, 2023, 07:54:45 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 21, 2023, 04:46:49 PM
Yet as a former toll collector I can't tell you how many people are unaware that they are on a toll road despite all FL Route shields display the word TOLL on them especially at entrance ramps to the toll roads.  Why? Because the technology we have creates a short attention span these days and that's why the high dependency on it, thus causing more attention problems.


It's notoriously difficult to get people to pay attention to unpleasant facts:  you have to pay a toll... speed limits are reduced here... Challenger has never taken off in weather this cold before... you've been spending more than you make every month...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on July 21, 2023, 08:25:41 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 19, 2023, 11:09:33 AM
TikTok.

What function, exactly, does TikTok perform that cannot be found on Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube?

Spying on the behalf of Beijing.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on July 21, 2023, 08:37:30 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
I wonder why so many people are diagnosing themselves with ADHD nowadays . . .

Apparently, it's the "cool" thing for teenagers to diagnose themselves with mental illnesses that they likely do not have. They spread disinformation about the disorders they claim to have, and it harms everybody with a real diagnosis. Trust me, there's nothing cool about mental illness.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 08:57:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 21, 2023, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
I wonder why so many people are diagnosing themselves with ADHD nowadays . . .

I've been on this forum long enough to know that the response to this is going to be "well my attention span is just fine!"  Don't even bother. Studies, surveys, and clear resulting effects of decreased attention span since short-form video has taken over show that this absolutely is a real thing regardless of what your personal experience reflects.

You've got it backward–people have the attention span problems first, then gravitate toward TikTok because it complements the way their mind works.
I'm sure that's true for many people, but it's quite obvious that an overall decrease in attention spans has occurred since the explosion of short form video. Suggesting that the attention spans of people who don't naturally have ADHD or anything of the sort have suffered from short form video.

QuoteWhen I had an ADHD friend comment that I probably had it too based on some of my personality traits, my research into it was basically a recurring series of "Oh, that explains why when I was 8 I had problem doing X, Y, and Z". It wasn't something Borne From Modern Societal Ills, it was something that was always a part of me. It simply didn't become apparent until the pandemic gifted me a large amount of unstructured free time. (And, of course my parents didn't notice anything amiss, because they do the same damn stuff I do, and have convinced themselves it's normal. I would guess that if they sought a diagnosis, they could probably get one. Which makes sense–ADHD is genetic. I have an aunt with it too, who was diagnosed in her late 60s.)
" Me, me, me, me, me."  When do we learn here?

I don't care. You are one person. Your single story is not evidence - if it was, I could refute it by saying that I personally have noticed my attention span decreasing since I started getting sucked into YouTube Shorts.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2023, 09:00:44 PM
I'm suddenly getting flashbacks to the 1980s when all the adults told me Nintendo and MTV was rotting my brain.  The more things change in the world the more they stay the same I suppose.

But that's why I created this thread, add TikTok to the brain rot list:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=30880.msg2700292#msg2700292
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 09:03:43 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
I've been on this forum long enough to know that the response to this is going to be "well my attention span is just fine!"  Don't even bother. Studies, surveys, and clear resulting effects of decreased attention span since short-form video has taken over show that this absolutely is a real thing regardless of what your personal experience reflects.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2023, 07:27:31 PM
The notion that services like TiKTok is causing a spike in ADHD cases is laughable.  My niece has been on TikTok all week at my house, she doesn't display any symptoms of ADHD and can easily focus.  The reason she used TikTok is because she's bored and legitimately has nothing to better to do with her summer.  We'll see how that changes when she gets older, soon she will be up for a driver's license and possibly a part time job.
ROFL. Should I have changed "my attention span"  to "my niece's attention span" ? What are we not understanding here?

Again:

Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 08:57:48 PM
Your single story is not evidence - if it was, I could refute it by saying that I personally have noticed my attention span decreasing since I started getting sucked into YouTube Shorts.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on July 21, 2023, 09:16:33 PM
Quote from: bugo on July 21, 2023, 08:25:41 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 19, 2023, 11:09:33 AM
TikTok.

What function, exactly, does TikTok perform that cannot be found on Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube?

Spying on the behalf of Beijing.
Heh.  What amazing information they're collecting:

"They really like cute puppies."
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on July 21, 2023, 09:17:05 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 21, 2023, 09:16:33 PM
Quote from: bugo on July 21, 2023, 08:25:41 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 19, 2023, 11:09:33 AM
TikTok.

What function, exactly, does TikTok perform that cannot be found on Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube?

Spying on the behalf of Beijing.
Heh.  What amazing information they're collecting:

"They really like cute puppies."
In fact, the information gathered by China from TikTok is...overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2023, 09:18:26 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 21, 2023, 09:16:33 PM
Quote from: bugo on July 21, 2023, 08:25:41 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 19, 2023, 11:09:33 AM
TikTok.

What function, exactly, does TikTok perform that cannot be found on Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube?

Spying on the behalf of Beijing.
Heh.  What amazing information they're collecting:

"They really like cute puppies."

You're the one that's missing that I'm comparing your griping about TikTok to my grandparents doing much of the same regarding video games and TV.  But hey, I guess that I missed that you are a social science expert and not a new age Boomer right?  Then again, whining about what kids like in modern times and thinking it's the worst is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on July 21, 2023, 09:27:27 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2023, 09:18:26 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 21, 2023, 09:16:33 PM
Quote from: bugo on July 21, 2023, 08:25:41 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 19, 2023, 11:09:33 AM
TikTok.

What function, exactly, does TikTok perform that cannot be found on Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube?

Spying on the behalf of Beijing.
Heh.  What amazing information they're collecting:

"They really like cute puppies."

You're the one that's missing that I'm comparing your griping about TikTok to my grandparents doing much of the same regarding video games and TV.  But hey, I guess that I missed that you are a social science expert and not a new age Boomer right?  Then again, whining about what kids like in modern times and thinking it's the worst is overrated.

What are you talking about?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2023, 09:29:27 PM
Short version of the story is that I'm just wondering why the person I was actually replying suddenly deemed himself qualified to determine that ADHD is on the rise in children because of TikTok.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 09:54:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2023, 09:18:26 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 21, 2023, 09:16:33 PM
Quote from: bugo on July 21, 2023, 08:25:41 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 19, 2023, 11:09:33 AM
TikTok.

What function, exactly, does TikTok perform that cannot be found on Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube?

Spying on the behalf of Beijing.
Heh.  What amazing information they're collecting:

"They really like cute puppies."

You're the one that's missing that I'm comparing your griping about TikTok to my grandparents doing much of the same regarding video games and TV.  But hey, I guess that I missed that you are a social science expert and not a new age Boomer right?  Then again, whining about what kids like in modern times and thinking it's the worst is overrated.
I believe I have voiced my appreciation for changing and improving technology and entertainment several times on this forum? It's pretty much just TikTok and other short form platforms that I take issue with.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2023, 09:29:27 PM
Short version of the story is that I'm just wondering why the person I was actually replying suddenly deemed himself qualified to determine that ADHD is on the rise in children because of TikTok.
I'm not qualified and I never said I was. There are tons of studies and surveys that have been done that support my claim.

In fact I could turn your snark back on you:

Quote
Short version of the story is that I'm just wondering why the person I was actually replying suddenly deemed himself qualified to determine that TikTok is absolutely not the cause of rising ADHD and it's "laughable"  to suggest that it is because his niece's attention span has not suffered.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on July 22, 2023, 12:09:45 AM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 08:57:48 PM
I don't care. You are one person. Your single story is not evidence - if it was, I could refute it by saying that I personally have noticed my attention span decreasing since I started getting sucked into YouTube Shorts.

Do you have any evidence that Tik Tok is causing latent cases of ADHD? I don't care about your personal experience either, I want cold, hard facts.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on July 22, 2023, 06:28:57 AM
Quote from: bugo on July 22, 2023, 12:09:45 AM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 08:57:48 PM
I don't care. You are one person. Your single story is not evidence - if it was, I could refute it by saying that I personally have noticed my attention span decreasing since I started getting sucked into YouTube Shorts.

Do you have any evidence that Tik Tok is causing latent cases of ADHD? I don't care about your personal experience either, I want cold, hard facts.
To clarify, I don't believe that TikTok is causing a rise in legitimate ADHD cases. What it is doing is shortening peoples' attention spans, causing ADHD-like symptoms.

I'll start with this . . .

https://www.theoxfordblue.co.uk/tiktok-and-the-death-of-the-attention-span/?amp=1#

https://socialmediapsychology.eu/2022/08/18/tiktok-is-killing-your-brain-right-now/

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/34138/20211025/tiktok-bad-brain-constant-social-media-streaming-narrows-collective-attention.htm

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesagencycouncil/2022/08/05/tick-tock-and-tiktok-shorter-attention-spans-and-the-consumer-market/?sh=439032a93ec8

https://medium.com/digital-reflections/tiktok-effect-on-attention-span-12211b0a06a1

https://www.medindia.net/amp/news/is-tiktok-affecting-kids-attention-span-206637-1.htm

https://www.pendulummag.com/business/2023/6/29/social-media-3-ways-tiktok-has-altered-your-day-to-day-behaviour-and-reduced-your-attention-span?format=amp

https://www.verywellhealth.com/tiktok-brain-5225664

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190415081959.htm

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/16/got-a-minute-global-attention-span-is-narrowing-study-reveals

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/science-and-health/2019/5/3/18514330/distraction-collective-attention-research
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on July 22, 2023, 06:36:42 AM
Sesame Street has been blamed for shortening kids' attention spans in school. The quick-bang, lesson taught in seconds mode of learning was something brand new.

Now whether Sesame Street actually caused that, or if it only reflected what kids learning style really is, that's another question.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on July 22, 2023, 06:56:14 AM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 08:57:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 21, 2023, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
I wonder why so many people are diagnosing themselves with ADHD nowadays . . .

I've been on this forum long enough to know that the response to this is going to be "well my attention span is just fine!"  Don't even bother. Studies, surveys, and clear resulting effects of decreased attention span since short-form video has taken over show that this absolutely is a real thing regardless of what your personal experience reflects.

You've got it backward–people have the attention span problems first, then gravitate toward TikTok because it complements the way their mind works.
I'm sure that's true for many people, but it's quite obvious that an overall decrease in attention spans has occurred since the explosion of short form video.

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 08:57:48 PM
I don't care.

Why would you bother to post on a web forum if you don't care what the other users on it have to say? If that's the case, scroll past the post without reading it. Posting about how much you don't care just takes up screen space that ought to be used for something useful. It's a waste of your time and everyone else's.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on July 23, 2023, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: GaryV on July 22, 2023, 06:36:42 AM
Sesame Street has been blamed for shortening kids' attention spans in school. The quick-bang, lesson taught in seconds mode of learning was something brand new.

Now whether Sesame Street actually caused that, or if it only reflected what kids learning style really is, that's another question.

Though the lens of an older child onwards, it seems like fluff. But there wasn't anything educational on television in much of a widespread basis 50+ years ago. Without a doubt, Sesame Street had a net positive effect on society; there were millions of parents with no access to daycare or pre-kindergarten educational facilities, the parents had limited educational backgrounds, or they had no time to educate kids from the ages of 1-6. This gave children a head start or a grounding in reading, phonics, and mathematics which they probably would not have received otherwise until entering elementary school.

From the beginning, selling the idea to TV networks took years because they didn't see the value of it, and required some seriously deep philanthropic pockets. For some teachers, it probably did mean they had to change some educational styles, but this is something school systems and teachers have to go through every couple of years and cannot always use the same methods which they may have been using for decades.

I have limited to zero interest in TikTok and other short-form video; I don't like to "view" what I could just read, don't need misleading titles, don't need to give kudos to overblown opinions disguised as "fact", and generally prefer still photography.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on July 23, 2023, 05:17:54 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2023, 09:00:44 PM
I'm suddenly getting flashbacks to the 1980s when all the adults told me Nintendo and MTV was rotting my brain.  The more things change in the world the more they stay the same I suppose.

Speaking of rotten brains in the 1980s, does anybody remember the Satanic panic? I grew up in a hyper-Christian small town in the South, and heavy metal music was pure evil. Ozzy Osbourne was the devil himself, and Motley Crue were evil incarnate. If they had heard Mercyful Fate or Venom, it would have blown their minds. I was always fascinated with the occult, and I eventually started listening to metal, and I still listen to it to this day. I have never believed in Satan or the devil or religion of any kind, but I have always been subversive, and I drew pentagrams on my notebooks at school just to freak the other kids out. I think some of them were scared of me. I had a Motley Crue shirt with 7 pentagrams on the back. I had long dark hair and wore black metal shirts, and everybody hated me. I was profiled for years because of the way I looked. Every time I went into Walmart, a plainclothes security officer would follow me around the store the entire time I was in there. Most of those religious kooks are gone now and Ozzy is a lovable buffoonish grandfatherly figure, but some of the older generations still think Dokken is a Satanic band.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 23, 2023, 05:29:17 PM
Quote from: bugo on July 23, 2023, 05:17:54 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2023, 09:00:44 PM
I'm suddenly getting flashbacks to the 1980s when all the adults told me Nintendo and MTV was rotting my brain.  The more things change in the world the more they stay the same I suppose.

Speaking of rotten brains in the 1980s, does anybody remember the Satanic panic? I grew up in a hyper-Christian small town in the South, and heavy metal music was pure evil. Ozzy Osbourne was the devil himself, and Motley Crue were evil incarnate. If they had heard Mercyful Fate or Venom, it would have blown their minds. I was always fascinated with the occult, and I eventually started listening to metal, and I still listen to it to this day. I have never believed in Satan or the devil or religion of any kind, but I have always been subversive, and I drew pentagrams on my notebooks at school just to freak the other kids out. I think some of them were scared of me. I had a Motley Crue shirt with 7 pentagrams on the back. I had long dark hair and wore black metal shirts, and everybody hated me. I was profiled for years because of the way I looked. Every time I went into Walmart, a plainclothes security officer would follow me around the store the entire time I was in there. Most of those religious kooks are gone now and Ozzy is a lovable buffoonish grandfatherly figure, but some of the older generations still think Dokken is a Satanic band.

I do, specifically I remember Dungeons & Dragons somehow being lumped into somehow being Satanic. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Big John on July 23, 2023, 05:43:16 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 23, 2023, 05:29:17 PM
Quote from: bugo on July 23, 2023, 05:17:54 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2023, 09:00:44 PM
I'm suddenly getting flashbacks to the 1980s when all the adults told me Nintendo and MTV was rotting my brain.  The more things change in the world the more they stay the same I suppose.

Speaking of rotten brains in the 1980s, does anybody remember the Satanic panic? I grew up in a hyper-Christian small town in the South, and heavy metal music was pure evil. Ozzy Osbourne was the devil himself, and Motley Crue were evil incarnate. If they had heard Mercyful Fate or Venom, it would have blown their minds. I was always fascinated with the occult, and I eventually started listening to metal, and I still listen to it to this day. I have never believed in Satan or the devil or religion of any kind, but I have always been subversive, and I drew pentagrams on my notebooks at school just to freak the other kids out. I think some of them were scared of me. I had a Motley Crue shirt with 7 pentagrams on the back. I had long dark hair and wore black metal shirts, and everybody hated me. I was profiled for years because of the way I looked. Every time I went into Walmart, a plainclothes security officer would follow me around the store the entire time I was in there. Most of those religious kooks are gone now and Ozzy is a lovable buffoonish grandfatherly figure, but some of the older generations still think Dokken is a Satanic band.

I do, specifically I remember Dungeons & Dragons somehow being lumped into somehow being Satanic. 
I saw a report that rolling dice is prohibited in some extreme religions as they considered it demonic.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on July 23, 2023, 07:14:58 PM
The Satanic Panic was just a mass movement of "People like something I don't understand, and I'm too lazy to try to figure it out, so I'm just going to call it immoral or evil so I don't have to." People still do the same shit today, it's just that instead of it being dice games or music genres, it's...well, you know.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on July 23, 2023, 07:22:28 PM
Stranger Things made more out of the panic than there was...so, the panic was overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on July 23, 2023, 07:45:24 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 23, 2023, 07:22:28 PM
Stranger Things made more out of the panic than there was...so, the panic was overrated.

The Bug™ of a few short years ago was DEFINITELY overrated, for what it really was.

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on July 23, 2023, 07:50:31 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 23, 2023, 07:22:28 PM
Stranger Things made more out of the panic than there was...so, the panic was overrated.

Depends on where in the country you were. If you were comparing it to 1980s Oklahoma, they probably undersold it, actually. (Don't forget that Footloose
was based on the true story of Elmore City, Oklahoma in 1980.)

Quote from: mgk920 on July 23, 2023, 07:45:24 PM
The Bug™ of a few short years ago was DEFINITELY overrated, for what it really was.

Mike

Yeah, Y2K was definitely overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JKRhodes on July 23, 2023, 07:51:46 PM
Not coming through 58 pages for duplicate. Apologies if the following has already been discussed:

White Castle sliders
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on July 23, 2023, 10:46:09 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 23, 2023, 07:45:24 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 23, 2023, 07:22:28 PM
Stranger Things made more out of the panic than there was...so, the panic was overrated.

The Bug of a few short years ago was DEFINITELY overrated, for what it really was.

Mike
Which one?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on July 23, 2023, 10:48:58 PM
Out of left field, but Schoodic Peninsula of Acadia National Park has become overrated.  Yes, it's less visited and a nice place with fascinating geology, but from some travel writers you'd think the place was Valhalla.  No, it is not on the same level as the top of the Fin in Zion, Lake MacDonald in Glacier or the Grand Prismatic Spring in Yellowstone...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on July 24, 2023, 01:43:40 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 23, 2023, 10:48:58 PM
Out of left field, but Schoodic Peninsula of Acadia National Park has become overrated.  Yes, it's less visited and a nice place with fascinating geology, but from some travel writers you'd think the place was Valhalla.  No, it is not on the same level as the top of the Fin in Zion, Lake MacDonald in Glacier or the Grand Prismatic Spring in Yellowstone...

Perhaps, but it has one thing those other three don't: the ocean. That scores points with people.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Bruce on July 24, 2023, 02:03:15 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 23, 2023, 10:48:58 PM
Out of left field, but Schoodic Peninsula of Acadia National Park has become overrated.  Yes, it's less visited and a nice place with fascinating geology, but from some travel writers you'd think the place was Valhalla.  No, it is not on the same level as the top of the Fin in Zion, Lake MacDonald in Glacier or the Grand Prismatic Spring in Yellowstone...

I found Lake MacDonald to be a bit boring compared to the other sights on Going-to-the-Sun Road. It doesn't have a unique quality that makes it stand out compared to similar lakes in other alpine areas around the Northwest.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on July 24, 2023, 04:13:19 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 23, 2023, 10:46:09 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 23, 2023, 07:45:24 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 23, 2023, 07:22:28 PM
Stranger Things made more out of the panic than there was...so, the panic was overrated.

The Bug of a few short years ago was DEFINITELY overrated, for what it really was.

Mike
Which one?

The one caused by...

Quote from: JKRhodes on July 23, 2023, 07:51:46 PM
Not coming through 58 pages for duplicate. Apologies if the following has already been discussed:

White Castle sliders
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on July 24, 2023, 06:51:28 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 24, 2023, 01:43:40 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 23, 2023, 10:48:58 PM
Out of left field, but Schoodic Peninsula of Acadia National Park has become overrated.  Yes, it's less visited and a nice place with fascinating geology, but from some travel writers you'd think the place was Valhalla.  No, it is not on the same level as the top of the Fin in Zion, Lake MacDonald in Glacier or the Grand Prismatic Spring in Yellowstone...

Perhaps, but it has one thing those other three don't: the ocean. That scores points with people.
So does Mount Desert Island, the main section of the park...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on July 24, 2023, 11:17:55 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 23, 2023, 10:46:09 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 23, 2023, 07:45:24 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 23, 2023, 07:22:28 PM
Stranger Things made more out of the panic than there was...so, the panic was overrated.

The Bug of a few short years ago was DEFINITELY overrated, for what it really was.

Mike
Which one?

That one where the politicians shut us all down for no reason at all.

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hotdogPi on July 24, 2023, 11:19:34 AM
You mean to save millions of lives? Keep in mind that the case fatality ratio was highest during the first two months before we knew what treatments worked (I'm referring to treatments after getting sick, not the vaccine which came later).

Quote from: roadman65 on July 24, 2023, 11:21:17 AM
It was all convenient for an election to happen at that particular moment in time.

There were eight months between when everything shut down (March) and the general election (November). In addition, if COVID-19 had happened one year earlier, the 2020 election would still have been during COVID, as real-life 2021 was also during the pandemic.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on July 24, 2023, 11:21:17 AM
The Covid thing was definitely overrated.   Though not claiming to be a fan of Donald Trump, I think there was nothing to downplay.

It was all convenient for an election to happen at that particular moment in time.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on July 24, 2023, 11:30:56 AM
At the risk of a sudden ad hominem attack, this thread may contain traces of nuts.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on July 24, 2023, 11:32:10 AM
I think we're all nuts.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hobsini2 on July 24, 2023, 11:57:01 AM
And now for something completely different...
Rush is overrated. That's right. I said it. What drags them down to not being a great rock back in my opinion is Geddy Lee's vocals. He sounds like someone is squeezing his nutsack. Nails on a chalkboard to me. Musically, they are a great band but the vocals just kill them in my eyes.

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on July 24, 2023, 12:05:23 PM
Wait. Whoa. Hold on a second.

Dokken is satanic?

And I saw a "Sesame Street" reference upthread so I'm waiting for Tim's take on it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Big John on July 24, 2023, 12:06:54 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on July 24, 2023, 11:57:01 AM
And now for something completely different...
Rush is overrated. That's right. I said it. What drags them down to not being a great rock back in my opinion is Geddy Lee's vocals. He sounds like someone is squeezing his nutsack. Nails on a chalkboard to me. Musically, they are a great band but the vocals just kill them in my eyes.


A certain poster here disagrees: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1201
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on July 25, 2023, 11:02:17 AM
SAG-Aftra and the WGA are showing us all how definitely overrated they are in today's world.

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on July 25, 2023, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 25, 2023, 11:02:17 AM
SAG-Aftra and the WGA are showing us all how definitely overrated they are in today's world.

Mike
Although I have my doubts about the strike, it does raise the question as to what labor can do when AI comes a-knockin' for their jobs or appearances.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on July 25, 2023, 11:53:03 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 25, 2023, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 25, 2023, 11:02:17 AM
SAG-Aftra and the WGA are showing us all how definitely overrated they are in today's world.

Mike
Although I have my doubts about the strike, it does raise the question as to what labor can do when AI comes a-knockin' for their jobs or appearances.

The entertainment industry has NEVER been welcoming to advances in technology.  The fall of the Big Bands and the rise of country music in the late 1940s and early 1950s was the direct result of a musicians union strike, the main issues being new technology (the introduction of coin-op jukeboxes and hi-fidelity records and players).  Heck, even the sheet music publishers took the makers of pneumatic 'layer' pianos to federal court around the turn of the 19th to the 20th centuries, too (the USSupremes sided with the piano makers).

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on July 25, 2023, 03:48:15 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 22, 2023, 06:56:14 AM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 08:57:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 21, 2023, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
I wonder why so many people are diagnosing themselves with ADHD nowadays . . .

I've been on this forum long enough to know that the response to this is going to be "well my attention span is just fine!"  Don't even bother. Studies, surveys, and clear resulting effects of decreased attention span since short-form video has taken over show that this absolutely is a real thing regardless of what your personal experience reflects.

You've got it backward–people have the attention span problems first, then gravitate toward TikTok because it complements the way their mind works.
I'm sure that's true for many people, but it's quite obvious that an overall decrease in attention spans has occurred since the explosion of short form video.

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 08:57:48 PM
I don't care.

Why would you bother to post on a web forum if you don't care what the other users on it have to say? If that's the case, scroll past the post without reading it. Posting about how much you don't care just takes up screen space that ought to be used for something useful. It's a waste of your time and everyone else's.
It's not that I don't care what anyone else has to say; it's that a single personal anecdote is irrelevant as evidence for or against a larger point.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 25, 2023, 03:57:06 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 25, 2023, 03:48:15 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 22, 2023, 06:56:14 AM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 08:57:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 21, 2023, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
I wonder why so many people are diagnosing themselves with ADHD nowadays . . .

I've been on this forum long enough to know that the response to this is going to be "well my attention span is just fine!"  Don't even bother. Studies, surveys, and clear resulting effects of decreased attention span since short-form video has taken over show that this absolutely is a real thing regardless of what your personal experience reflects.

You've got it backward–people have the attention span problems first, then gravitate toward TikTok because it complements the way their mind works.
I'm sure that's true for many people, but it's quite obvious that an overall decrease in attention spans has occurred since the explosion of short form video.

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 08:57:48 PM
I don't care.

Why would you bother to post on a web forum if you don't care what the other users on it have to say? If that's the case, scroll past the post without reading it. Posting about how much you don't care just takes up screen space that ought to be used for something useful. It's a waste of your time and everyone else's.
It's not that I don't care what anyone else has to say; it's that a single personal anecdote is irrelevant as evidence for or against a larger point.

In all those links you posted, how many of them actually contain credible medical research?  Sure, several of the website names sound "science-like,"  but that doesn't necessarily mean they are.  Why you're choosing TikTok borne ADHD as a hill to die I don't quite understand. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bm7 on July 25, 2023, 08:41:54 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on July 24, 2023, 11:57:01 AM
And now for something completely different...
Rush is overrated. That's right. I said it. What drags them down to not being a great rock back in my opinion is Geddy Lee's vocals. He sounds like someone is squeezing his nutsack. Nails on a chalkboard to me. Musically, they are a great band but the vocals just kill them in my eyes.
I feel this way about most rock bands from the 70s/80s, they have the same annoying high-pitched singing style and I can't stand it most of the time. It's unfortunate because I agree they're great musically, but I'd need to listen to instrumental/cover versions. That said I did enjoy one of their last albums, Vapor Trails, I'd recommend giving it a listen.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kurumi on July 25, 2023, 09:13:32 PM
Maybe it's the time I grew up in, but I'll always remember Rush's winning streak fondly (2112, Farewell to Kings, Hemispheres, Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures, Signals... and maybe Grace Under Pressure). Before that, they were not yet in Their Final Form; and afterward, the same mid-1980s tide that washed out Genesis, Yes, Heart, etc. also got to them.

I think their being a power trio helped if you were a prog fan that was also in an (amateur) band: the bass, guitar, or keyboard parts stood out more clearly, and you could try your hand at playing them by ear. I don't remember any of us trying to hit Geddy's high notes, though.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hobsini2 on July 26, 2023, 10:11:34 AM
Quote from: kurumi on July 25, 2023, 09:13:32 PM
Maybe it's the time I grew up in, but I'll always remember Rush's winning streak fondly (2112, Farewell to Kings, Hemispheres, Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures, Signals... and maybe Grace Under Pressure). Before that, they were not yet in Their Final Form; and afterward, the same mid-1980s tide that washed out Genesis, Yes, Heart, etc. also got to them.

I think their being a power trio helped if you were a prog fan that was also in an (amateur) band: the bass, guitar, or keyboard parts stood out more clearly, and you could try your hand at playing them by ear. I don't remember any of us trying to hit Geddy's high notes, though.
The one song of theirs that I do like even the vocals on was one that came out on the Test for Echo album called "Half the World". If Rush sounded like that more often, then I would be good with them.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on July 26, 2023, 11:11:17 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 25, 2023, 03:57:06 PM
In all those links you posted, how many of them actually contain credible medical research?  Sure, several of the website names sound "science-like,"  but that doesn't necessarily mean they are.
Most of them at least reference scientific findings.

QuoteWhy you're choosing TikTok borne ADHD as a hill to die I don't quite understand.
I'm not. I misspoke earlier.

Quote from: thspfc on July 22, 2023, 06:28:57 AM
To clarify, I don't believe that TikTok is causing a rise in legitimate ADHD cases. What it is doing is shortening peoples' attention spans, causing ADHD-like symptoms.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Otto Yamamoto on August 04, 2023, 02:04:00 PM


The Bug of a few short years ago was DEFINITELY overrated, for what it really was.

Mike
[/quote]Which one?
[/quote]

That one where the politicians shut us all down for no reason at all.

Mike
[/quote]

Yeah, 40 residents in my nursing home died of that, as well as a number of people I know. More than a few co workers and friends had it, some more than once. My sister(also a nurse) has had it twice. Glad to know it was 'nothing'.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JKRhodes on August 04, 2023, 07:12:20 PM
Quote from: formulanone on July 24, 2023, 04:13:19 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 23, 2023, 10:46:09 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 23, 2023, 07:45:24 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 23, 2023, 07:22:28 PM
Stranger Things made more out of the panic than there was...so, the panic was overrated.

The Bug of a few short years ago was DEFINITELY overrated, for what it really was.

Mike
Which one?

The one caused by...

Quote from: JKRhodes on July 23, 2023, 07:51:46 PM
Not coming through 58 pages for duplicate. Apologies if the following has already been discussed:

White Castle sliders

Hate that I got dragged into the COVID spat over my comment that had nothing to do, but since I did, I'll just say...

Had several friends, relatives, acquaintances whom I might ask if the virus was overrated... except they're dead now... from the virus.

That as many people are still around, with some bitching about the way it was handled, is a testament to success off the worldwide effort to mitigate its effects.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on August 07, 2023, 07:02:31 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 25, 2023, 03:48:15 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 22, 2023, 06:56:14 AM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 08:57:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 21, 2023, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
I wonder why so many people are diagnosing themselves with ADHD nowadays . . .

I've been on this forum long enough to know that the response to this is going to be "well my attention span is just fine!"  Don't even bother. Studies, surveys, and clear resulting effects of decreased attention span since short-form video has taken over show that this absolutely is a real thing regardless of what your personal experience reflects.

You've got it backward–people have the attention span problems first, then gravitate toward TikTok because it complements the way their mind works.
I'm sure that's true for many people, but it's quite obvious that an overall decrease in attention spans has occurred since the explosion of short form video.

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 08:57:48 PM
I don't care.

Why would you bother to post on a web forum if you don't care what the other users on it have to say? If that's the case, scroll past the post without reading it. Posting about how much you don't care just takes up screen space that ought to be used for something useful. It's a waste of your time and everyone else's.
It's not that I don't care what anyone else has to say; it's that a single personal anecdote is irrelevant as evidence for or against a larger point.

It's called socialization by sharing one's personal experiences.

Have you ever considered that web forums may not be for you?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 07, 2023, 07:05:29 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 07, 2023, 07:02:31 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 25, 2023, 03:48:15 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 22, 2023, 06:56:14 AM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 08:57:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 21, 2023, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
I wonder why so many people are diagnosing themselves with ADHD nowadays . . .

I've been on this forum long enough to know that the response to this is going to be "well my attention span is just fine!"  Don't even bother. Studies, surveys, and clear resulting effects of decreased attention span since short-form video has taken over show that this absolutely is a real thing regardless of what your personal experience reflects.

You've got it backward–people have the attention span problems first, then gravitate toward TikTok because it complements the way their mind works.
I'm sure that's true for many people, but it's quite obvious that an overall decrease in attention spans has occurred since the explosion of short form video.

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 08:57:48 PM
I don't care.

Why would you bother to post on a web forum if you don't care what the other users on it have to say? If that's the case, scroll past the post without reading it. Posting about how much you don't care just takes up screen space that ought to be used for something useful. It's a waste of your time and everyone else's.
It's not that I don't care what anyone else has to say; it's that a single personal anecdote is irrelevant as evidence for or against a larger point.

It's called socialization by sharing one's personal experiences.

Have you ever considered that web forums may not be for you?

This was more of an example of someone getting backed into a corner regarding their anecdotal/unqualified medical diagnosis.  Linking the top of the Google search history for cherry picked causality tends be the last gasp of a dying argument that met unexpected challenge.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on August 07, 2023, 07:08:27 PM
In any event, given the other direction this thread is turning at the same time...

(https://i.imgur.com/yitUJss.png)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on August 07, 2023, 09:52:36 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 07, 2023, 07:05:29 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 07, 2023, 07:02:31 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 25, 2023, 03:48:15 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 22, 2023, 06:56:14 AM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 08:57:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 21, 2023, 07:07:54 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
I wonder why so many people are diagnosing themselves with ADHD nowadays . . .

I've been on this forum long enough to know that the response to this is going to be "well my attention span is just fine!"  Don't even bother. Studies, surveys, and clear resulting effects of decreased attention span since short-form video has taken over show that this absolutely is a real thing regardless of what your personal experience reflects.

You've got it backward–people have the attention span problems first, then gravitate toward TikTok because it complements the way their mind works.
I'm sure that's true for many people, but it's quite obvious that an overall decrease in attention spans has occurred since the explosion of short form video.

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

Quote from: thspfc on July 21, 2023, 08:57:48 PM
I don't care.

Why would you bother to post on a web forum if you don't care what the other users on it have to say? If that's the case, scroll past the post without reading it. Posting about how much you don't care just takes up screen space that ought to be used for something useful. It's a waste of your time and everyone else's.
It's not that I don't care what anyone else has to say; it's that a single personal anecdote is irrelevant as evidence for or against a larger point.

It's called socialization by sharing one's personal experiences.

Have you ever considered that web forums may not be for you?

This was more of an example of someone getting backed into a corner regarding their anecdotal/unqualified medical diagnosis.  Linking the top of the Google search history for cherry picked causality tends be the last gasp of a dying argument that met unexpected challenge.

For the third time, there was no medical diagnosis made ever.

Quote from: thspfc on July 22, 2023, 06:28:57 AM
To clarify, I don't believe that TikTok is causing a rise in legitimate ADHD cases. What it is doing is shortening peoples' attention spans, causing ADHD-like symptoms.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 07, 2023, 07:05:29 PM
This was more of an example of someone getting backed into a corner regarding their anecdotal/unqualified medical diagnosis.  Linking the top of the Google search history for cherry picked causality tends be the last gasp of a dying argument that met unexpected challenge.
Are you gonna, like, explain why the links are incorrect or not to be trusted?

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 07, 2023, 07:02:31 PM
It's called socialization by sharing one's personal experiences.

Have you ever considered that web forums may not be for you?
I'm totally cool with socialization; I'm not totally cool with people using only their own personal expierence to shape an entire argument or world view.

Quote from: thspfc on July 25, 2023, 03:48:15 PM
It's not that I don't care what anyone else has to say; it's that a single personal anecdote is irrelevant as evidence for or against a larger point.

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 07, 2023, 07:02:31 PM
Have you ever considered that web forums may not be for you?
If my comments are so egregiously out of line for a web forum then it is completely within your power to ban me. Personally I don't think saying "a personal anecdote is not infallible evidence" constitutes such a response.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 07, 2023, 10:02:53 PM
For someone who supposedly "doesn't care," you sure seem to be caring a lot about what the rest of us think.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on August 07, 2023, 10:24:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 07, 2023, 10:02:53 PM
For someone who supposedly "doesn't care," you sure seem to be caring a lot about what the rest of us think.
I know (or at least I hope) this is tongue in cheek, but in case it isn't; I don't care about a single personal example relating to an overarching point.

Do I actually care about what anyone has to say on here? I mean, not really, and I wouldn't expect anyone to care about what I have to say here either. Aren't we all just here to kill time and discuss/fight over meaningless nonsense? It's not that deep.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 07, 2023, 10:27:55 PM
Sure showing a lot of care with all these replies.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on August 07, 2023, 11:14:12 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 07, 2023, 10:27:55 PM
Sure showing a lot of care with all these replies.
" Care"  is subjective. Clearly I care enough to waste more time typing these posts.

(is discussing how much the other person cares something that "tends to be the last gasp of a dying argument that met unexpected opposition" ?)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on August 08, 2023, 04:14:35 AM
Whether short-form video causes shorter attention spans or not, it certainly makes no attempt to challenge our 8-9 second attention spans.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on August 08, 2023, 04:50:28 AM
Is the Troll from Long Island back? I'm wondering. Sounds like a new persona for him.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on August 08, 2023, 08:38:48 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 08, 2023, 04:50:28 AM
Is the Troll from Long Island back? I'm wondering. Sounds like a new persona for him.
Referring to me?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on August 08, 2023, 08:43:10 AM
Quote from: thspfc on August 08, 2023, 08:38:48 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 08, 2023, 04:50:28 AM
Is the Troll from Long Island back? I'm wondering. Sounds like a new persona for him.
Referring to me?

Pretty certain he means Mike2357 and his various sockpuppets.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on August 08, 2023, 08:46:24 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 08, 2023, 08:43:10 AM
Quote from: thspfc on August 08, 2023, 08:38:48 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 08, 2023, 04:50:28 AM
Is the Troll from Long Island back? I'm wondering. Sounds like a new persona for him.
Referring to me?

Pretty certain he means Mike2357 and his various sockpuppets.
Am I them?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on August 08, 2023, 01:48:14 PM
Folks, I'm locking this topic for a period of about 24 hours.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on August 09, 2023, 05:47:16 PM
Locking this thread was super lame. What was the point?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on August 09, 2023, 05:58:38 PM
Quote from: bugo on August 09, 2023, 05:47:16 PM
Locking this thread was overrated. What was the point?

FIFY   :sombrero:

In all seriousness, good job mods.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on August 09, 2023, 06:02:07 PM
I think to cool us down. We were about to go into multi million territory and they felt we were ready to get on the anti triple M bandwagon again.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on August 09, 2023, 06:18:08 PM
Quote from: thspfc on August 08, 2023, 08:46:24 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 08, 2023, 08:43:10 AM
Quote from: thspfc on August 08, 2023, 08:38:48 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 08, 2023, 04:50:28 AM
Is the Troll from Long Island back? I'm wondering. Sounds like a new persona for him.
Referring to me?

Pretty certain he means Mike2357 and his various sockpuppets.
Am I them?

Ask roadman65.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on August 09, 2023, 07:13:05 PM
Who shot who with the what, now?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2023, 07:31:57 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 09, 2023, 07:13:05 PM
Who shot who with the what, now?

Colonel Mustard shot Mr. Boddy with the revolver in the Conservatory.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on August 09, 2023, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2023, 07:31:57 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 09, 2023, 07:13:05 PM
Who shot who with the what, now?

Colonel Mustard shot Mr. Boddy with the revolver in the Conservatory.
False, it's always the library and never the revolver.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: SSOWorld on August 09, 2023, 09:36:57 PM
Quote from: thspfc on August 09, 2023, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2023, 07:31:57 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 09, 2023, 07:13:05 PM
Who shot who with the what, now?
Colonel Mustard shot Mr. Boddy with the revolver in the Conservatory.
False, it's always the library and never the revolver.
Mr. Green (who's not gay) shot Mr. Boddy, in the hall, with the revolver. That phone call from the FBI was for him.

Told you I didn't do it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2023, 09:49:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 09, 2023, 09:36:57 PM
Quote from: thspfc on August 09, 2023, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2023, 07:31:57 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 09, 2023, 07:13:05 PM
Who shot who with the what, now?
Colonel Mustard shot Mr. Boddy with the revolver in the Conservatory.
False, it's always the library and never the revolver.
Mr. Green (who's not gay) shot Mr. Boddy, in the hall, with the revolver. That phone call from the FBI was for him.

Told you I didn't do it.

As an aside I showed Jessica the Clue movie a couple months ago.  She apparently had never heard of the movie despite being a Tim Curry fan.  Granted she hadn't seen 1990s It until we were dating.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on August 10, 2023, 12:53:37 PM
Quote from: thspfc on August 09, 2023, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2023, 07:31:57 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 09, 2023, 07:13:05 PM
Who shot who with the what, now?

Colonel Mustard shot Mr. Boddy with the revolver in the Conservatory.
False, it's always the library and never the revolver.

And regardless of the characters in Clue, It was always the person who the Scooby-Doo gang "meddled with" at the end who did it!!!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Dough4872 on August 18, 2023, 10:26:09 PM
Disney World is severely overrated. It's overpriced, not worth the money, and there are way cooler things to do in Florida.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 18, 2023, 11:39:53 PM
I'd argue Florida on the whole is an overrated tourist destination. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on August 19, 2023, 06:51:01 AM
Quote from: Rothman on August 09, 2023, 07:13:05 PM
Who shot who with the what, now?

JR? Kristin

Or was that only a dream too?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on August 19, 2023, 08:12:57 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2023, 09:49:37 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 09, 2023, 09:36:57 PM
Quote from: thspfc on August 09, 2023, 08:02:09 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2023, 07:31:57 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 09, 2023, 07:13:05 PM
Who shot who with the what, now?
Colonel Mustard shot Mr. Boddy with the revolver in the Conservatory.
False, it's always the library and never the revolver.
Mr. Green (who's not gay) shot Mr. Boddy, in the hall, with the revolver. That phone call from the FBI was for him.

Told you I didn't do it.

As an aside I showed Jessica the Clue movie a couple months ago.  She apparently had never heard of the movie despite being a Tim Curry fan.  Granted she hadn't seen 1990s It until we were dating.

♪♫ I am your singing telegram. ♫♪♫
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on August 19, 2023, 08:14:04 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 18, 2023, 11:39:53 PM
I'd argue Florida on the whole is an overrated tourist destination. 

Especially since they traded orange groves for residential development and inviting those up north to come on down.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on August 19, 2023, 11:47:17 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 18, 2023, 11:39:53 PM
I'd argue Florida on the whole is an overrated tourist destination.
I've always thought of Florida as being too 'suburban sprawlish' for my tastes and not really a 'genuine' place, thus having only a few limited touristy things that I have been interested in experiencing.  That bucket list has only three things on it, driving US 1 to its south end, seeing a NASCAR race at Daytona and seeing something being launched from NASA-Kennedy.

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2023, 12:01:09 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 19, 2023, 11:47:17 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 18, 2023, 11:39:53 PM
I'd argue Florida on the whole is an overrated tourist destination.
I've always thought of Florida as being too 'suburban sprawlish' for my tastes and not really a 'genuine' place, thus having only a few limited touristy things that I have been interested in experiencing.  That bucket list has only three things on it, driving US 1 to its south end, seeing a NASCAR race at Daytona and seeing something being launched from NASA-Kennedy.

Mike

The trouble I had when I lived in the state was that there wasn't really a lot of "true outdoor or wilderness"  spaces.  Sure stuff like the Green Swamp, Everglades and Ocala National Forest exists, but none of that has a particular amount of variety.  I also never really felt like even in the deepest parts of the Everglades that I was really removed from civilization like I was/am frequently out west.  Kind of wore on me after three years as got dull. 

But yes, Florida can be great I suppose if one has an interest in stuff like theme parks or the beach.  I did find there was some enjoyment to be found in looking for ghost towns (there was a lot phosphate company towns) but that is a very niche hobby.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on August 20, 2023, 08:04:08 AM
Although I think the Everglades are ecologically diverse -- compare open marshes to the mahogany forest, yeah, you're not far from civilization if you stick to the tour road and don't get out into the swamp somehow.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 20, 2023, 09:32:38 AM
Quote from: Rothman on August 20, 2023, 08:04:08 AM
Although I think the Everglades are ecologically diverse -- compare open marshes to the mahogany forest, yeah, you're not far from civilization if you stick to the tour road and don't get out into the swamp somehow.

The trails are fairly limited.  Unless you have some sort of non-motorized boat there is only so far in you're going to get.  I've tried the Coastal Prairie Trail (out of Flamingo) and Snake Bight Trail, they didn't really convey that particular sense of isolation I was looking for.  I didn't get too far down the old Ingraham Highway towards Ernest Coe Campground given how overgrown it is.  Perhaps the is the only trail in Everglades National Park that is truly rugged?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on August 20, 2023, 09:38:35 AM
I could understand why it's probably not what you're looking for, but the view from the watch tower at Shark Valley made me feel like I was way the heck out in the middle of nowhere.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 20, 2023, 09:48:08 AM
Yes, but think about how you get to that tower.  It's either by tram or bike along a paved former quarry road.  That felt different to me than say hiking down towards Yosemite Valley along the Old Big Oak Flat Road.

I don't know, I gave Florida the old college try for three years and it just wasn't for me.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on August 20, 2023, 09:50:38 AM


Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 20, 2023, 09:32:38 AM
Quote from: Rothman on August 20, 2023, 08:04:08 AM
Although I think the Everglades are ecologically diverse -- compare open marshes to the mahogany forest, yeah, you're not far from civilization if you stick to the tour road and don't get out into the swamp somehow.

The trails are fairly limited.  Unless you have some sort of non-motorized boat there is only so far in you're going to get.  I've tried the Coastal Prairie Trail (out of Flamingo) and Snake Bight Trail, they didn't really convey that particular sense of isolation I was looking for.  I didn't get too far down the old Ingraham Highway towards Ernest Coe Campground given how overgrown it is.  Perhaps the is the only trail in Everglades National Park that is truly rugged?

I was talking about getting on a boat.

It's like going to Voyageurs National Park, going to the VC and maybe a nature trail, and then saying, "Well, that wasn't that exciting."  Well, sure.  You need to get on a boat.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on August 20, 2023, 09:50:59 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 20, 2023, 09:38:35 AM
I could understand why it's probably not what you're looking for, but the view from the watch tower at Shark Valley made me feel like I was way the heck out in the middle of nowhere.

Along with the crowd...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 20, 2023, 10:01:58 AM
Everglades National Park did give me a humorous moment with my wife.  She didn't know how to react to the alligators at the Royal Palm Visitor center.  I guess her perception as a west coast person was that alligators are hyper aggressive given that's pretty much all that has ever been presented to her in media.  She wasn't expecting a bunch of alligators all at once and for them to have total indifferent to humans. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on August 20, 2023, 11:00:51 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 20, 2023, 09:48:08 AM
Yes, but think about how you get to that tower.  It's either by tram or bike along a paved former quarry road.  That felt different to me than say hiking down towards Yosemite Valley along the Old Big Oak Flat Road.

I don't know, I gave Florida the old college try for three years and it just wasn't for me.

That's why I began my comment with "I could understand why it's probably not what you're looking for."



Quote from: Rothman on August 20, 2023, 09:50:59 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 20, 2023, 09:38:35 AM
I could understand why it's probably not what you're looking for, but the view from the watch tower at Shark Valley made me feel like I was way the heck out in the middle of nowhere.

Along with the crowd...

It was relatively empty the day we visited.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on August 20, 2023, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 20, 2023, 09:50:59 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 20, 2023, 09:38:35 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 20, 2023, 09:38:35 AM
I could understand why it’s probably not what you’re looking for, but the view from the watch tower at Shark Valley made me feel like I was way the heck out in the middle of nowhere.

Along with the crowd...

It was relatively empty the day we visited.

Only went once roughly 30+ years ago, but it was pretty empty. Seeing a handful of other families and having to wait 2-3 minutes (gosh!) for a desirable lookout point is pretty typical...

If you desire constant near-unobtrusive isolation, maybe abandoned buildings and urbex are for you.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 20, 2023, 01:54:29 PM
Quote from: formulanone on August 20, 2023, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 20, 2023, 09:50:59 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 20, 2023, 09:38:35 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 20, 2023, 09:38:35 AM
I could understand why it's probably not what you're looking for, but the view from the watch tower at Shark Valley made me feel like I was way the heck out in the middle of nowhere.

Along with the crowd...

It was relatively empty the day we visited.

Only went once roughly 30+ years ago, but it was pretty empty. Seeing a handful of other families and having to wait 2-3 minutes (gosh!) for a desirable lookout point is pretty typical...

If you desire constant near-unobtrusive isolation, maybe abandoned buildings and urbex are for you.

They most definitely are.  Those are some of the more frequent features I post on GN.  Pinecrest on Monroe County Station on the Everglades Loop Road certainly caught my attention.  That also was the hook with the Snake Bight Trail.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on September 20, 2023, 09:24:02 AM
Every size of band-aid other than the 'normal' size.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on September 20, 2023, 09:35:03 AM
Sophia Coppola
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on September 20, 2023, 10:34:13 AM
Celsius temperature
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on September 20, 2023, 10:39:26 AM
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2023, 09:35:03 AM
Sophia Coppola

Was she ever considered underrated after Godfather Part 3 and that whole weird cousin incest plot?  Lost in Translation and the Virgin Suicides were the only movies she directed I found kind of noteworthy.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on September 20, 2023, 10:59:59 AM
Katy Perry
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on September 20, 2023, 11:00:51 AM
Quote from: kphoger on September 20, 2023, 09:24:02 AM
Every size of band-aid other than the 'normal' size.

Really?  Sometimes I need a small one so it won't have to stretch across a joint and get pulled off right away.  Or a big one to cover a big injury.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on September 20, 2023, 11:12:48 AM
Quote from: kkt on September 20, 2023, 11:00:51 AM

Quote from: kphoger on September 20, 2023, 09:24:02 AM
Every size of band-aid other than the 'normal' size.

Really?  Sometimes I need a small one so it won't have to stretch across a joint and get pulled off right away.  Or a big one to cover a big injury.

They have their uses, yes.  But each box of band-aids could stand to have about two each of those off-sizes.  The rest should all be normal.

And actually, if I have an injury big enough for a huge band-aid, then I usually prefer gauze and tape anyway.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on September 20, 2023, 11:37:23 AM
Quote from: kphoger on September 20, 2023, 11:12:48 AM
Quote from: kkt on September 20, 2023, 11:00:51 AM

Quote from: kphoger on September 20, 2023, 09:24:02 AM
Every size of band-aid other than the 'normal' size.

Really?  Sometimes I need a small one so it won't have to stretch across a joint and get pulled off right away.  Or a big one to cover a big injury.

They have their uses, yes.  But each box of band-aids could stand to have about two each of those off-sizes.  The rest should all be normal.

And actually, if I have an injury big enough for a huge band-aid, then I usually prefer gauze and tape anyway.

I buy a box of big ones, a box of little ones, and a couple of boxes of medium-size ones.  Of course you don't really need bandaids at all; any injury could be dressed with gauze and tape.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: fhmiii on September 20, 2023, 02:28:31 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 20, 2023, 09:35:03 AM
Sophia Coppola

Agreed.  "Lost in Translation" was a bore, and everything else is uninteresting or pure fluff.  "Marie Antionette" should have had me spellbound (especially since I had a thing for Kirsten Dunst at the time), but I was looking at my watch less than 30 minutes in.

My addition:

Smartwatches, of any variety, that's more than a fitness tracker.  I had a Fitbit, and almost everything I now do with my Apple Watch I could do with it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on September 20, 2023, 02:41:41 PM
Scarlett Johansson has made a lot of movies (for me) seem better than they are.  There is a lot of Marvel stuff that is borderline intolerable without her presence in it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on September 20, 2023, 06:55:57 PM
Russell Brand (https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2023/sep/20/russell-brand-allegations-show-how-tv-tolerated-terrible-behaviour-says-c4-chief)--though I reached this opinion long before the present kerfuffle.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on September 21, 2023, 03:46:14 PM
Big frosted sugar cookies
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Pfft.  Talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.  You go through the hassle of pre-check to avoid the hassle...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: gonealookin on October 26, 2023, 06:24:47 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Pfft.  Talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.  You go through the hassle of pre-check to avoid the hassle...

Signing up for Pre-Check was a one-time hassle ten years ago, which has benefitted me 8-12 times a year since then.  Every time I get in the shorter line, don't have to take my shoes off, don't have to take the laptop out of the bag, I'm thankful I did that.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 26, 2023, 07:24:12 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Pfft.  Talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.  You go through the hassle of pre-check to avoid the hassle...

Eh, I think I can agree with webny99. I have Global Entry, which comes with Precheck. The problem is, my wife and son don't. So when I travel alone, I definitely like the speedy security and immigration. But when I travel with them, it's not that bad. You just have to plan for it and get to the airport 20 minutes earlier.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: gonealookin on October 26, 2023, 07:51:38 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 26, 2023, 07:24:12 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Pfft.  Talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.  You go through the hassle of pre-check to avoid the hassle...

Eh, I think I can agree with webny99. I have Global Entry, which comes with Precheck. The problem is, my wife and son don't. So when I travel alone, I definitely like the speedy security and immigration. But when I travel with them, it's not that bad. You just have to plan for it and get to the airport 20 minutes earlier.

Speaking of hassles...Global Entry is a nice product, but trying to get it, dear god.  The closest place I could apply would be SFO (about 200 miles); LAS, LAX and SLC are next at 400-500 miles.  Appointments are generally 6 months to a year out at any of them.  I knew someone who was able to get appointments for himself and his wife in Vegas; they flew down from Reno just for that, did the enrollment process and flew back to Reno later that day.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on October 26, 2023, 10:07:27 PM
I've never been bothered by airport security. About the only thing I don't like are the lines. TSA can be predictable, but not always the lines.

The default experience of flying domestic in Japan is much like Pre-Check, if not slightly better:

+ no limits on liquids but they must be scanned
+ no ID check, just valid ticket check (either scan QR code to open a gate or visual check by agent)
+ shoes can stay on
+ watches and belts can stay on

- laptops must come out
- budget airlines often staff the security line to weigh bags, to force overweight bags to be checked.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 10:14:53 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 26, 2023, 10:07:27 PM
I've never been bothered by airport security. About the only thing I don't like is the lines.

It's contagious.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:38:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Pfft.  Talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.  You go through the hassle of pre-check to avoid the hassle...

Pre-check is a one-time hassle, not comparable to the hassle of regular security if you're flying with any frequency.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 11:40:46 PM


Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:38:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Pfft.  Talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.  You go through the hassle of pre-check to avoid the hassle...

Pre-check is a one-time hassle, not comparable to the hassle of regular security if you're flying with any frequency.

Uh-huh.

Let me put it this way: "The hassle of airport travel is overrated because I paid for TSA pre-check and don't need to deal with it anymore myself."

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 11:40:46 PM


Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:38:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Pfft.  Talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.  You go through the hassle of pre-check to avoid the hassle...

Pre-check is a one-time hassle, not comparable to the hassle of regular security if you're flying with any frequency.

Uh-huh.

Let me put it this way: "The hassle of airport travel is overrated because I paid for TSA pre-check and don't need to deal with it anymore myself."

... the point being that anyone can do that, so it's only a hassle if you choose it to be one.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2023, 12:05:39 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 11:40:46 PM


Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:38:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Pfft.  Talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.  You go through the hassle of pre-check to avoid the hassle...

Pre-check is a one-time hassle, not comparable to the hassle of regular security if you're flying with any frequency.

Uh-huh.

Let me put it this way: "The hassle of airport travel is overrated because I paid for TSA pre-check and don't need to deal with it anymore myself."

... the point being that anyone can do that, so it's only a hassle if you choose it to be one.

Or you work for the Federal Government and you get Pre-Check for free.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 04:07:24 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 11:40:46 PM


Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:38:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Pfft.  Talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.  You go through the hassle of pre-check to avoid the hassle...

Pre-check is a one-time hassle, not comparable to the hassle of regular security if you're flying with any frequency.

Uh-huh.

Let me put it this way: "The hassle of airport travel is overrated because I paid for TSA pre-check and don't need to deal with it anymore myself."

... the point being that anyone can do that, so it's only a hassle if you choose it to be one.

Everyone has $78?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 06:59:00 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 11:40:46 PM


Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:38:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Pfft.  Talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.  You go through the hassle of pre-check to avoid the hassle...

Pre-check is a one-time hassle, not comparable to the hassle of regular security if you're flying with any frequency.

Uh-huh.

Let me put it this way: "The hassle of airport travel is overrated because I paid for TSA pre-check and don't need to deal with it anymore myself."

... the point being that anyone can do that, so it's only a hassle if you choose it to be one.
Hoo boy...no, anyone can't do that...smh...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on October 27, 2023, 09:23:00 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 06:59:00 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 11:40:46 PM


Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:38:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Pfft.  Talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.  You go through the hassle of pre-check to avoid the hassle...

Pre-check is a one-time hassle, not comparable to the hassle of regular security if you're flying with any frequency.

Uh-huh.

Let me put it this way: "The hassle of airport travel is overrated because I paid for TSA pre-check and don't need to deal with it anymore myself."

... the point being that anyone can do that, so it's only a hassle if you choose it to be one.
Hoo boy...no, anyone can't do that...smh...

If someone doesn't want to qualify for Pre-Check, they either
(1) don't fly enough for it to matter
(2) really don't have an extra $85-100
(3) have so many other external or prior situations which are probably greater problems than having a longer security line and taking off shoes, and/or dealing with narrow seats and crowds

Air travel and all of its associated hassles have to be weighed against its convenience, and any additional appreciation for the purpose of the destination. Just like everything else.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 09:31:03 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 04:07:24 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 11:40:46 PM


Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:38:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Pfft.  Talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.  You go through the hassle of pre-check to avoid the hassle...

Pre-check is a one-time hassle, not comparable to the hassle of regular security if you're flying with any frequency.

Uh-huh.

Let me put it this way: "The hassle of airport travel is overrated because I paid for TSA pre-check and don't need to deal with it anymore myself."

... the point being that anyone can do that, so it's only a hassle if you choose it to be one.

Everyone has $78?

Yes, everyone that has $382 (average flight cost in the US) has $78.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 10:10:36 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 09:31:03 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 04:07:24 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 11:40:46 PM


Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:38:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Pfft.  Talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.  You go through the hassle of pre-check to avoid the hassle...

Pre-check is a one-time hassle, not comparable to the hassle of regular security if you're flying with any frequency.

Uh-huh.

Let me put it this way: "The hassle of airport travel is overrated because I paid for TSA pre-check and don't need to deal with it anymore myself."

... the point being that anyone can do that, so it's only a hassle if you choose it to be one.

Everyone has $78?

Yes, everyone that has $382 (average flight cost in the US) has $78.

That $382 that they might have spend 8 months saving up for.

They're not going to give a shit about keeping their shoes on and arriving at the airport 30 minutes earlier.

This is a pretty myopic view.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 11:19:05 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 10:10:36 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 09:31:03 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 04:07:24 AM
Everyone has $78?

Yes, everyone that has $382 (average flight cost in the US) has $78.

That $382 that they might have spend 8 months saving up for.

They're not going to give a shit about keeping their shoes on and arriving at the airport 30 minutes earlier.

This is a pretty myopic view.

The $78 is good for five years. That's $1.30 a month. Saying that's affordable to anyone that can afford a flight is not nearly as myopic as not investing $1.30 a month if you fly regularly.

If you only fly rarely I understand, but that's not what we're talking about in the context of the hassle being overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2023, 11:23:12 AM
I got my Pre-Check for free.  I can afford it but I probably wouldn't have gone through the hoops to get it otherwise.  Yes, it saves me time at the airport but not enough to inconvenience myself like my wife had to get her Pre-Check. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 11:26:16 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 11:19:05 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 10:10:36 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 09:31:03 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 04:07:24 AM
Everyone has $78?

Yes, everyone that has $382 (average flight cost in the US) has $78.

That $382 that they might have spend 8 months saving up for.

They're not going to give a shit about keeping their shoes on and arriving at the airport 30 minutes earlier.

This is a pretty myopic view.

The $78 is good for five years. That's $1.30 a month. Saying that's affordable to anyone that can afford a flight is not nearly as myopic as not investing $1.30 a month if you fly regularly.

If you only fly rarely I understand, but that's not what we're talking about in the context of the hassle being overrated.

But dismissing that marginal $78 cost is the same as older generations saying yours can't buy a house due to Starbucks and avocado toast.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 11:30:05 AM
Also worth noting the difference between Global Entry and TSA Pre-check (the latter is cheaper and easier to get, but does not have the benefits for international travel):

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/travel/tsa-precheck-global-entry-explained
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Big John on October 27, 2023, 11:35:19 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 11:19:05 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 10:10:36 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 09:31:03 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 04:07:24 AM
Everyone has $78?

Yes, everyone that has $382 (average flight cost in the US) has $78.

That $382 that they might have spend 8 months saving up for.

They're not going to give a shit about keeping their shoes on and arriving at the airport 30 minutes earlier.

This is a pretty myopic view.

The $78 is good for five years. That's $1.30 a month. Saying that's affordable to anyone that can afford a flight is not nearly as myopic as not investing $1.30 a month if you fly regularly.

If you only fly rarely I understand, but that's not what we're talking about in the context of the hassle being overrated.
Like an infomercial saying 60 easy payments of $1.30 each.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 11:19:05 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 10:10:36 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 09:31:03 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 04:07:24 AM
Everyone has $78?

Yes, everyone that has $382 (average flight cost in the US) has $78.

That $382 that they might have spend 8 months saving up for.

They're not going to give a shit about keeping their shoes on and arriving at the airport 30 minutes earlier.

This is a pretty myopic view.

The $78 is good for five years. That's $1.30 a month. Saying that's affordable to anyone that can afford a flight is not nearly as myopic as not investing $1.30 a month if you fly regularly.

If you only fly rarely I understand, but that's not what we're talking about in the context of the hassle being overrated.
The myopia is becoming more severe by the minute.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 11:52:13 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 11:19:05 AM
The $78 is good for five years. That's $1.30 a month. Saying that's affordable to anyone that can afford a flight is not nearly as myopic as not investing $1.30 a month if you fly regularly.

The myopia being described is becoming more severe by the minute.

FTFY.  :-|
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 11:57:35 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 11:19:05 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 10:10:36 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 09:31:03 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 04:07:24 AM
Everyone has $78?

Yes, everyone that has $382 (average flight cost in the US) has $78.

That $382 that they might have spend 8 months saving up for.

They're not going to give a shit about keeping their shoes on and arriving at the airport 30 minutes earlier.

This is a pretty myopic view.

The $78 is good for five years. That's $1.30 a month. Saying that's affordable to anyone that can afford a flight is not nearly as myopic as not investing $1.30 a month if you fly regularly.

If you only fly rarely I understand, but that's not what we're talking about in the context of the hassle being overrated.
The myopia is becoming more severe by the minute.

I run into this a lot on another forum I frequent, FlyerTalk, where most of the people who post there have white collar jobs with six-digit salaries. When someone doesn't pay the $45 to upgrade to first class, they're gobsmacked. Because why wouldn't someone do it for such a trivial amount? They don't seem to have an awareness that everyone's bank account doesn't look like theirs and other people might have different priorities in general.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 12:11:54 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 11:52:13 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 11:19:05 AM
The $78 is good for five years. That's $1.30 a month. Saying that's affordable to anyone that can afford a flight is not nearly as myopic as not investing $1.30 a month if you fly regularly.

The myopia being described is becoming more severe by the minute.

FTFY.  :-|
"I think flying hassles are overrated because I'm a frequent flyer that pays to avoid it.  Less frequent flyers' opinions don't matter."

...

On a tangent, I find the whole "pay to skip security" schemes to really show that the security theater is the Kabuki theater we all know it is.  We know that 99.99% of people getting on a plane are just doing that without ill-intention.  We put up with hijackings and the like long before 9/11 without messing with security procedures at the airport.  Now we've stoked people's fears to make money off of them.

So, this idea of "just pay extra to skip the lines" just seems like a sort of microclassism to me.  If you can afford to pay, you get to skip the line, despite most of everyone being able to pass a background check.  It is much more of a money-making scheme than anything related to transportation safety.

Sort of reminds me of some pro-transit advocates:  Make roads miserable so people shell out for transit.  We've just made the security lines miserable to enrich the pockets of those implementing the "skip-the-line" programs, when the public service should be to make air travel as safe and as efficient as reasonable.

Blech.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 12:21:34 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 11:57:35 AM
I run into this a lot on another forum I frequent, FlyerTalk, where most of the people who post there have white collar jobs with six-digit salaries. When someone doesn't pay the $45 to upgrade to first class, they're gobsmacked. Because why wouldn't someone do it for such a trivial amount? They don't seem to have an awareness that everyone's bank account doesn't look like theirs and other people might have different priorities in general.

Goodness, I sure hope you're not comparing $45 for a single flight to $78 for five years of hassle-free security. That is myopia, dictionary-style.

There seems to be a misconception of why I even brought this up in this thread. It had nothing to do with the affordability of TSA pre-check, it was about how overblown the hassle of airport travel is in general. Of course I think TSA makes it a lot less of a hassle, but it goes without saying that it's not for everyone.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 12:28:35 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 12:21:34 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 11:57:35 AM
I run into this a lot on another forum I frequent, FlyerTalk, where most of the people who post there have white collar jobs with six-digit salaries. When someone doesn't pay the $45 to upgrade to first class, they're gobsmacked. Because why wouldn't someone do it for such a trivial amount? They don't seem to have an awareness that everyone's bank account doesn't look like theirs and other people might have different priorities in general.

Goodness, I sure hope you're not comparing $45 for a single flight to $78 for five years of hassle-free security. That is myopia, dictionary-style.

There seems to be a misconception of why I even brought this up in this thread. It had nothing to do with the affordability of TSA pre-check, it was about how overblown the hassle of airport travel is in general. Of course I think TSA makes it a lot less of a hassle, but it goes without saying that it's not for everyone.

My point I was making is that not everyone's expendable income is obviously the same, and some things that people deem worthy of spending it on would not be viewed by others as a worthwhile purchase.

Then the point I was making about FlyerTalk is that people who have a good amount of money are often blind to the fact that others don't have a good amount of money, and that paying for a flight once a year is as far as they can extend their extra cash. This is similar to how some on this board, despite not being from a place, think they know how things should be in said place (the "What is the Midwest" thread is the current example).

You have the cash and clean criminal record to be able to spend $78 on pre-check. But once you did, then you now think that the hassle of air travel is overrated. Well of course it is for you, because you paid some funds to avoid it. That doesn't mean that the hassle of air travel is lessened as a whole. Especially for infrequent flyers that don't pay attention to the 3/1/1 rule or know where to go in the airport. Obviously I've been lucky enough to fly a bunch, so it doesn't really bother me, but I do understand why it makes other people uncomfortable.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on October 27, 2023, 12:34:53 PM
When it comes to whether precheck/global entry are worth it, it's a matter of two simple questions: 1) how much time am I saving, and 2) what is the monetary value of that time?

If I fly 10 times round-trip in 5 years, and I save on average 30 minutes each flight with precheck and global entry (will depend heavily on whether you're flying domestic or international), that's 20 flights * 30 minutes saved = 10 hours. At $100 for those five years, I'm paying $100 to save 10 hours - before the amount of time it took to get global entry in the first place is subtracted. Whether that's worth it will depend on personal preference. But looking at it as a monthly expense is pointless because in all the months in which you don't fly, it's not going to affect your life.

Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 12:11:54 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 11:52:13 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 11:19:05 AM
The $78 is good for five years. That's $1.30 a month. Saying that's affordable to anyone that can afford a flight is not nearly as myopic as not investing $1.30 a month if you fly regularly.

The myopia being described is becoming more severe by the minute.

FTFY.  :-|
"I think flying hassles are overrated because I'm a frequent flyer that pays to avoid it.  Less frequent flyers' opinions don't matter."

...

On a tangent, I find the whole "pay to skip security" schemes to really show that the security theater is the Kabuki theater we all know it is.  We know that 99.99% of people getting on a plane are just doing that without ill-intention.  We put up with hijackings and the like long before 9/11 without messing with security procedures at the airport.  Now we've stoked people's fears to make money off of them.

So, this idea of "just pay extra to skip the lines" just seems like a sort of microclassism to me.  If you can afford to pay, you get to skip the line, despite most of everyone being able to pass a background check.  It is much more of a money-making scheme than anything related to transportation safety.

Sort of reminds me of some pro-transit advocates:  Make roads miserable so people shell out for transit.  We've just made the security lines miserable to enrich the pockets of those implementing the "skip-the-line" programs, when the public service should be to make air travel as safe and as efficient as reasonable.

Blech.
Not to mention, the security measures implemented at airports post-9/11 . . . would not have stopped 9/11.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on October 27, 2023, 12:37:50 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2023, 12:05:39 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 11:40:46 PM


Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:38:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Pfft.  Talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.  You go through the hassle of pre-check to avoid the hassle...

Pre-check is a one-time hassle, not comparable to the hassle of regular security if you're flying with any frequency.

Uh-huh.

Let me put it this way: "The hassle of airport travel is overrated because I paid for TSA pre-check and don't need to deal with it anymore myself."

... the point being that anyone can do that, so it's only a hassle if you choose it to be one.

Or you work for the Federal Government and you get Pre-Check for free.

Not all US government employees get Pre-Check for free.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 12:38:38 PM
And not to make it political, but one guy, one time, tried to bomb a plane with a shoe. He was unsuccessful, but we still have to take off our shoes (without pre-check). Yet lots of people have ACTUALLY died because of other things and yet...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 12:39:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 12:11:54 PM
"I think flying hassles are overrated because I'm a frequent flyer that pays to avoid it.  Less frequent flyers' opinions don't matter."

Actually, I would hardly qualify as a frequent flyer. 8-10 times per year tops. My comments were directed towards those who fly more frequently than that and could get TSA if they choose, but prefer to complain about the hassle of airport travel.


Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 12:11:54 PM
So, this idea of "just pay extra to skip the lines" just seems like a sort of microclassism to me.  If you can afford to pay, you get to skip the line, despite most of everyone being able to pass a background check.  It is much more of a money-making scheme than anything related to transportation safety.

On one hand, point taken. On the other, I just don't get the affordability argument when it's 20% of the cost of a single flight for five years. A drop in the bucket of the airline industry as a whole.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 12:40:06 PM


Quote from: thspfc on October 27, 2023, 12:34:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 12:11:54 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 11:52:13 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 11:19:05 AM
The $78 is good for five years. That's $1.30 a month. Saying that's affordable to anyone that can afford a flight is not nearly as myopic as not investing $1.30 a month if you fly regularly.

The myopia being described is becoming more severe by the minute.

FTFY.  :-|
"I think flying hassles are overrated because I'm a frequent flyer that pays to avoid it.  Less frequent flyers' opinions don't matter."

...

On a tangent, I find the whole "pay to skip security" schemes to really show that the security theater is the Kabuki theater we all know it is.  We know that 99.99% of people getting on a plane are just doing that without ill-intention.  We put up with hijackings and the like long before 9/11 without messing with security procedures at the airport.  Now we've stoked people's fears to make money off of them.

So, this idea of "just pay extra to skip the lines" just seems like a sort of microclassism to me.  If you can afford to pay, you get to skip the line, despite most of everyone being able to pass a background check.  It is much more of a money-making scheme than anything related to transportation safety.

Sort of reminds me of some pro-transit advocates:  Make roads miserable so people shell out for transit.  We've just made the security lines miserable to enrich the pockets of those implementing the "skip-the-line" programs, when the public service should be to make air travel as safe and as efficient as reasonable.

Blech.
Not to mention, the security measures implemented at airports post-9/11 . . . would not have stopped 9/11.

Well, supposedly box cutters aren't allowed in carry-ons any longer, so we've got that going for us.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 12:46:50 PM


Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 12:39:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 12:11:54 PM
"I think flying hassles are overrated because I'm a frequent flyer that pays to avoid it.  Less frequent flyers' opinions don't matter."

Actually, I would hardly qualify as a frequent flyer. 8-10 times per year tops.

You are indeed a frequent flier: You fly more often than 90% of the adult American population per multiple survey results I've come across in Google.  Heck, even amongst those who fly at least once in a year, you're in a minority (top 25%, about).  You're then comparing yourself to the even slimmer minority that flies more frequently than you and then saying the vast majority is blowing the hassle out of proportion?

How can one not then conclude that your perception is totally skewed?





Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 01:00:52 PM
Separate from whether one can afford PreCheck, there's also the hassle of the background checks, and the question of whether one should have to go through the time and money cost for something that everyone used to have before 9/11.  Plus, as I understand it, even with PreCheck there's still a random chance you could be forced to use the regular line.

My complaints with NEXUS are similar: it's basically a financial cost and hassle for something that everyone used to get before 9/11.  IMO we should go back to the way things were before 9/11 (mostly) and get rid of the security theater.  Keep the few things that actually help (like securing the cockpit), get rid of the rest.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 01:15:47 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 12:28:35 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 12:21:34 PM
There seems to be a misconception of why I even brought this up in this thread. It had nothing to do with the affordability of TSA pre-check, it was about how overblown the hassle of airport travel is in general. Of course I think TSA makes it a lot less of a hassle, but it goes without saying that it's not for everyone.

My point I was making is that not everyone's expendable income is obviously the same, and some things that people deem worthy of spending it on would not be viewed by others as a worthwhile purchase.

I get that, but I was assuming we already know it's a worthwhile purchase, and I know that isn't true for everyone, but it is certainly true for frequent flyers. At exactly what point is it a worthwhile purchase is a trickier question. 2 flights a year? 5? 10?



Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 12:28:35 PM
You have the cash and clean criminal record to be able to spend $78 on pre-check. But once you did, then you now think that the hassle of air travel is overrated. Well of course it is for you, because you paid some funds to avoid it. That doesn't mean that the hassle of air travel is lessened as a whole. Especially for infrequent flyers that don't pay attention to the 3/1/1 rule or know where to go in the airport. Obviously I've been lucky enough to fly a bunch, so it doesn't really bother me, but I do understand why it makes other people uncomfortable.

Only $50, actually. TSA pre-check just happens to be one of the perks of NEXUS, which is what I actually wanted/needed to spend the money on, and that only costs $50 for 5 years. Now I understand NEXUS can also be a hassle to sign up for, especially if you don't live near the border, but it is a cheaper option and also a huge time saver for the busier land crossings.

I definitely get why airport travel can be overwhelming for people that aren't used to it, but it's all about being prepared. Even people who rarely fly can mitigate the hassle by knowing what to expect. The biggest issue with security IMO is not the process itself, but the lines. That can cost you a lot of time at larger airports, but at a small airport like ROC that doesn't have a constant backlog, you can usually be through in less than 10 minutes, with or without pre-check.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 01:33:36 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 01:00:52 PM
Plus, as I understand it, even with PreCheck there's still a random chance you could be forced to use the regular line.

There are two ways that could happen that I know of:

1) Occasionally, your Known Traveler Number (KTN) will not appear on your boarding pass. This can usually be resolved by printing a new boarding pass, updating it online if you're using a mobile boarding pass, or worst-case, speaking to a travel agent.

2) The TSA lines aren't always 24-hour and may not be open at particularly light-traffic times. But even if it's closed, it usually means there's no line at regular security, and you're usually given a card to use the benefits of Pre-Check in the regular line.


Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 01:00:52 PM
My complaints with NEXUS are similar: it's basically a financial cost and hassle for something that everyone used to get before 9/11.  IMO we should go back to the way things were before 9/11 (mostly) and get rid of the security theater.  Keep the few things that actually help (like securing the cockpit), get rid of the rest.

The value of NEXUS is mostly for land crossings, since the designated lanes can save hours at peak times, and it generally reduces the questioning even if using a regular lane.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 02:20:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 12:11:54 PM

Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 11:52:13 AM


"I think flying hassles are overrated because I'm a frequent flyer that pays to avoid it.  Less frequent flyers' opinions don't matter."

Yes, you hit the nail on the head.  I don't see why my opinion about airport hassle doesn't matter, just because I don't fly often.

Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 09:31:03 AM
Yes, everyone that has $382 (average flight cost in the US) has $78.

Honestly, I find that rather condescending of you, to assume that anyone who can afford $382 can afford $460, plus the time off and gas money it might take to go and actually get TSA PreCheck in the first place.

The last time my wife and I flew anywhere together (sixteen years ago), it was because one of her relatives had died and we needed to get to Minnesota for the funeral.  No time to plan ahead, no time to save up.  In fact, she was eight or nine months pregnant, so any savings we might have had should be going toward the baby.  In such a situation, a $382 plane ticket could all but wipe out a newlywed couple's bank account.  And here you come, saying that they should be able to afford an addition $78, no problem.  You must live a rather privileged life.  Back then, $78 was a week's worth of groceries.

You might as well say that someone who can afford a plane ticket doesn't need to be paid for PTO that day, because they can obviously stand to lose out on 8 hours' worth of $9.75/hour wages.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 02:26:46 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 09:31:03 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 04:07:24 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 11:40:46 PM


Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 11:38:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 26, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
I've decided that "the hassle of airport travel" belongs in this category, with one catch: TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Pfft.  Talking out of both sides of your mouth, there.  You go through the hassle of pre-check to avoid the hassle...

Pre-check is a one-time hassle, not comparable to the hassle of regular security if you're flying with any frequency.

Uh-huh.

Let me put it this way: "The hassle of airport travel is overrated because I paid for TSA pre-check and don't need to deal with it anymore myself."

... the point being that anyone can do that, so it's only a hassle if you choose it to be one.

Everyone has $78?

Yes, everyone that has $382 (average flight cost in the US) has $78.

So it's impossible for someone to have $383? Or are you saying you can convince the airline to charge you only $304 so you can pay $78 to PreCheck instead?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 02:32:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 02:26:46 PM
So it's impossible for someone to have $383? Or are you saying you can convince the airline to charge you only $304 so you can pay $78 to PreCheck instead?

I think what he's really implying is that only people with a decent financial cushion buy plane tickets.

Which is weird, because I just went to Travelocity to check the price of a Chicago ↔ Los Angeles round trip, and I see tickets for $138.  How, I wonder, does he think less financially well-off people traveling between these two cities instead?  Hopping freight?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 02:47:23 PM
Yeah, and I mean, it's not like you're always in prime financial shape when a need to travel arises.

I just got paid, and paid off the bills that were due and such, so my bank account has roughly $600 in it at the moment. Enough to last us the week. But let's say my wife got a call that she has a job interview in Las Vegas, and for some reason it has to be done in person. We decide the position is lucrative enough to justify it. So we spend $382 to buy her a ticket (I imagine it'd be cheaper thanks to Uncle Clark, but we're gonna go with the number webny threw out). So now we have $218 for her to spend on a hotel room, and food for both of us for the next week. $78 on PreCheck isn't happening.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 03:28:59 PM
Not to mention people who aren't even paying for the tickets themselves, such as those who travel for work.

And don't think that it's only high-up executives who fly on the company's dime.  For example, I work in cable, and I know people who bid on projects all over the country.  My former boss got a job, when he left here, that had him working on hotel install projects from Miami to New York to Honolulu.  He was flying somewhere new every week, sometimes multiple cities in a week, sometimes not even coming home to Wichita in between projects.  None of those tickets came out of his pocket.  But it's not like he was the guy in charge, raking in the big bucks.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 03:32:44 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 09:31:03 AM
Yes, everyone that has $382 (average flight cost in the US) has $78.

Does this scale up for family size?  Does a 19-year old couple flying home from college for Christmas have an extra $156 to spare?  Does a family of five who used their tax refund to go to Disney World have an extra $390 to spare?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on October 27, 2023, 03:51:17 PM
All this talk about the inconvenience of flying, and no one has touched on the real inconvenience -- limits on how much you can take with you.

If  you're traveling by car, you can pack as much as the car will hold and you're good. Extra shoes? A cooler full of pop so you don't have to buy it from overpriced hotel vending machines? Snacks for the week? A couple of extra pairs of shoes? Your laptop and camera? Sure!

Car travel isn't as fast, especially if you want to go a long distance, but it's certainly more convenient and you're more in control of your itinerary.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Bruce on October 27, 2023, 03:56:26 PM
The car can also be an inconvenience while traveling, especially when the destination is a major city. Parking, gas, and tolls add up, plus time wasted by traffic and having to rearrange things so your car is less likely to be a target for random theft. I almost never do a plane+car trip unless I'm going further out from the city.

Packing efficiently for a plane trip is possible, though. With one carry-on suitcase and one backpack (with expandable space), I was able to take my 17" laptop, a week's worth of clothes, a DSLR with extra lens, and plenty of extras. Some take it even further and do a one-backpack trip, but I'm not quite that savvy.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 03:58:33 PM
Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 03:58:33 PM
Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)

I mean, you mentioned Vegas upthread. Good luck getting anywhere near the Strip for free, and if you do, it's probably a spot your car could get stolen.

If you want to go to a Nuggets/Avs/Rockies game here in Denver, the closest free parking is probably 2 miles away? Maybe more?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 04:03:54 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 03:58:33 PM
Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)

I have, in the Saint Louis suburbs.  And I wasn't the one who purchased the hotel rooms, so it's not like I had a choice.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: gonealookin on October 27, 2023, 04:12:34 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 03:58:33 PM
Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)

I mean, you mentioned Vegas upthread. Good luck getting anywhere near the Strip for free, and if you do, it's probably a spot your car could get stolen.

One would hope parking would be included in the "Resort Fee" in Vegas, but, nope.

Pulling one at random, the Mandalay Bay (https://www.resortfeechecker.com/203613-resort_fee_mandalay_bay_resort_casino.html), the Resort Fee is $44.22/night and there's an additional $18 daily charge for self parking.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on October 27, 2023, 04:19:16 PM
Ugh, Vegas and Disney are the worst examples. If you have $100 to gamble, you probably have the wherewithal for paying for Pre-Check.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 04:22:19 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 02:47:23 PM
But let's say my wife got a call that she has a job interview in Las Vegas ...

Quote from: formulanone on October 27, 2023, 04:19:16 PM
If you have $100 to gamble, you probably have the wherewithal for paying for Pre-Check.

Who said anything about gambling?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 04:36:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 02:20:38 PM
I don't see why my opinion about airport hassle doesn't matter, just because I don't fly often.

Well, what is your opinion about airport hassle? I'm not going to spend hours sifting through the onslaught unleashed by my no-good, very bad, condescending take only to have you say that, actually, you don't care about the hassle of airport security that much and that it's no big deal.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 03:58:33 PM
Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)

"Places" as in cities, or specific destinations? It's almost impossible to visit a major city without paying for parking somewhere along the way.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on October 27, 2023, 04:39:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 04:22:19 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 02:47:23 PM
But let's say my wife got a call that she has a job interview in Las Vegas ...

Quote from: formulanone on October 27, 2023, 04:19:16 PM
If you have $100 to gamble, you probably have the wherewithal for paying for Pre-Check.

Who said anything about gambling?

Bruh, I could have mentioned the overpriced food and covered both.

I already mentioned 30 posts ago why someone logically wouldn't bother with pre-check but it got lost in the shuffle.

Despite all that, there's about a dozen other hassles of flying which Pre-check doesn't cover.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 04:50:13 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 04:36:00 PM
Well, what is your opinion about airport hassle? I'm not going to spend hours sifting through the onslaught unleashed by my no-good, very bad, condescending take only to have you say that, actually, you don't care about the hassle of airport security that much and that it's no big deal.

Never knowing how long it will take to get through all the chutes, and therefore having to arrive well in advance of departure, is a hassle.  Taking everything out of my pockets and the belt off my waist and all that jazz, then playing starfish in the X-ray machine -slash- Star Trek transporter, is a hassle.  Once you're actually on the aircraft, flying ain't so bad.  It's the airports I hate.  They're a hassle.

I prefer traveling by almost any other mode to traveling by air:  rail, bus, driving, even hitchhiking (although I haven't done that last one in years).

I prefer to be treated like a respectable member of society, not as a strange cross between convict and cattle.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 04:52:14 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 04:50:13 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 04:36:00 PM
Well, what is your opinion about airport hassle? I'm not going to spend hours sifting through the onslaught unleashed by my no-good, very bad, condescending take only to have you say that, actually, you don't care about the hassle of airport security that much and that it's no big deal.

Never knowing how long it will take to get through all the chutes, and therefore having to arrive well in advance of departure, is a hassle.  Taking everything out of my pockets and the belt off my waste and all that jazz, then playing starfish in the X-ray machine -slash- Star Trek transporter, is a hassle.  Once you're actually on the aircraft, flying ain't so bad.  It's the airports I hate.  They're a hassle.

I prefer traveling by almost any other mode to traveling by air:  rail, bus, driving, even hitchhiking (although I haven't done that last one in years).

I prefer to be treated like a respectable member of society, not as a strange cross between convict and cattle.

Not to mention that they apparently have to see you naked in order to fly nowadays. (Few old school metal detectors, only the new nude-o-scopes.)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 05:01:51 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 04:52:14 PM
Not to mention that they apparently have to see you naked in order to fly nowadays. (Few old school metal detectors, only the new nude-o-scopes.)

Oh, if air travel were done in the nude, that might sway me to liking it more.  But only if they're liberal in handing out blankets, because I get cold very easily.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jmacswimmer on October 27, 2023, 05:28:24 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 04:52:14 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 04:50:13 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 04:36:00 PM
Well, what is your opinion about airport hassle? I'm not going to spend hours sifting through the onslaught unleashed by my no-good, very bad, condescending take only to have you say that, actually, you don't care about the hassle of airport security that much and that it's no big deal.

Never knowing how long it will take to get through all the chutes, and therefore having to arrive well in advance of departure, is a hassle.  Taking everything out of my pockets and the belt off my waste and all that jazz, then playing starfish in the X-ray machine -slash- Star Trek transporter, is a hassle.  Once you're actually on the aircraft, flying ain't so bad.  It's the airports I hate.  They're a hassle.

I prefer traveling by almost any other mode to traveling by air:  rail, bus, driving, even hitchhiking (although I haven't done that last one in years).

I prefer to be treated like a respectable member of society, not as a strange cross between convict and cattle.

Not to mention that they apparently have to see you naked in order to fly nowadays. (Few old school metal detectors, only the new nude-o-scopes.)

Not sure if every airport does this, but at least at BWI they still keep a backup metal detector next to the nude-o-scope. Then if the nude-o-scope line starts backing up, they wave people thru the metal detector, which is exactly what we got to do flying out 2 weeks ago.

Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 03:58:33 PM
Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)

"Places" as in cities, or specific destinations? It's almost impossible to visit a major city without paying for parking somewhere along the way.

And in a perfect tie-together of the airport & paid-parking discussions: If you plan on driving yourself to the airport and leaving the car parked during the trip, you'll be paying to do so whether in an airport-run lot or off-airport private lot.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 05:38:36 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 03:58:33 PM
Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)

"Places" as in cities, or specific destinations? It's almost impossible to visit a major city without paying for parking somewhere along the way.

I guess I only visit minor cities, then. It's not hard to find free parking in downtown OKC, although I have an unfair home-field advantage there. But even so, I've never had to pay for parking in Tulsa, Kansas City, or Dallas. Maybe I'm just lucky in that I don't normally frequent (or even enjoy) things like arena concerts where paying to park would be a given.

Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 04:02:46 PM
I mean, you mentioned Vegas upthread. Good luck getting anywhere near the Strip for free, and if you do, it's probably a spot your car could get stolen.

The first time I went to Las Vegas, I stayed at the Rio, and as far as I'm aware we weren't charged for parking (though it's entirely possible that we were and the person driving just never mentioned it). Granted, the Rio has a reputation for being a dive compared to the rest of Las Vegas, but the casino in Oklahoma I have the most experience with is literally made of temporary trailer buildings, so it seemed nice enough to me. (And the Excalibur, the only other casino in Nevada I've been in and which does charge for parking, wasn't that much nicer. Actually, I liked the room better at the Rio.)

I imagine you could save a few bucks by staying at the Rio and then just taking Uber or whatever over to the actual Strip, since it's not that far of a drive. (I wouldn't try to walk it, though, since that bridge over I-15 seems like it would be dicey.)

Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 04:22:19 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 02:47:23 PM
But let's say my wife got a call that she has a job interview in Las Vegas ...

Quote from: formulanone on October 27, 2023, 04:19:16 PM
If you have $100 to gamble, you probably have the wherewithal for paying for Pre-Check.

Who said anything about gambling?

I mean, I guess participating in corporate employment is a form of gambling, but I don't think that's what formulanone meant...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on October 27, 2023, 05:40:08 PM
The debate about whether "if you have $382 then you also have $78" is true is funny to me because, that's not even the question. The flight itself, and therefore the expense of the flight, is more important than the amount of time it takes to get on and off that flight. Just because you can afford to pay the extra $78 doesn't mean you should. Paying the $78 to save a bit of time on one round trip flight for the whole duration of the 5 years is just lighting money on fire unless you're wealthy to the point where you might as well pay for business class too.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on October 27, 2023, 05:47:07 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 05:01:51 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 04:52:14 PM
Not to mention that they apparently have to see you naked in order to fly nowadays. (Few old school metal detectors, only the new nude-o-scopes.)

Oh, if air travel were done in the nude, that might sway me to liking it more.  But only if they're liberal in handing out blankets, because I get cold very easily.

Bad enough hearing everyone's views on politics, religion, and work babble. But I suppose nobody would earnestly talk about the last one on a plane of nekkid pax.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: gonealookin on October 27, 2023, 06:33:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 05:38:36 PM
The first time I went to Las Vegas, I stayed at the Rio, and as far as I'm aware we weren't charged for parking (though it's entirely possible that we were and the person driving just never mentioned it). Granted, the Rio has a reputation for being a dive compared to the rest of Las Vegas, but the casino in Oklahoma I have the most experience with is literally made of temporary trailer buildings, so it seemed nice enough to me. (And the Excalibur, the only other casino in Nevada I've been in and which does charge for parking, wasn't that much nicer. Actually, I liked the room better at the Rio.)

I imagine you could save a few bucks by staying at the Rio and then just taking Uber or whatever over to the actual Strip, since it's not that far of a drive. (I wouldn't try to walk it, though, since that bridge over I-15 seems like it would be dicey.)

The Strip resorts, and some/most of them downtown, are the only places that charge for parking.

My last trip a couple weeks ago, I stayed at the Suncoast out in Summerlin, for convenience, as I was there for four days of PGA Tour.  Parking is free out there, and they have so much more of it than they need for whatever reason that the Suncoast's parking lots are the free parking for the golf tournament a couple miles away; the shuttle bus to the course leaves from the front door of the hotel.

Personally, going to Vegas once or twice a year for some reason or other as it's about 7 hours drive away, (speaking of overrated) I've been to the Strip, seen it, checked it off the list and avoid it with passion.  For visitors for whom Vegas is a big and rare vacation, the Strip obviously is a must-stay-there place and you pay whatever it costs. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 06:52:01 PM
Quote from: thspfc on October 27, 2023, 05:40:08 PM
The debate about whether "if you have $382 then you also have $78" is true is funny to me because, that's not even the question. The flight itself, and therefore the expense of the flight, is more important than the amount of time it takes to get on and off that flight. Just because you can afford to pay the extra $78 doesn't mean you should. Paying the $78 to save a bit of time on one round trip flight for the whole duration of the 5 years is just lighting money on fire unless you're wealthy to the point where you might as well pay for business class too.

Except that this whole discussion started when he said...

Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
TSA pre-check is a must-have.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 06:54:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 03:58:33 PM
Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)
Wut.  We're roadgeeks.  We go everywhere, rural, suburban and urban.

I prefer driving into Manhattan over taking transit on the weekends.  The difference in cost between taking a train in and parking isn't too bad and then you're free to leave whenever you like instead of having to worry about a train schedule.

Entrance fees to major national parks are now equivalent to a day's worth of parking in Manhattan as well.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2023, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 06:54:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 03:58:33 PM
Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)
Wut.  We're roadgeeks.  We go everywhere, rural, suburban and urban.

I prefer driving into Manhattan over taking transit on the weekends.  The difference in cost between taking a train in and parking isn't too bad and then you're free to leave whenever you like instead of having to worry about a train schedule.

Entrance fees to major national parks are now equivalent to a day's worth of parking in Manhattan as well.

If you do more than five NPS site visits a year that entrance fee investment can be significantly lessened by getting an annual pass. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on October 27, 2023, 07:31:32 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 05:38:36 PM
The first time I went to Las Vegas, I stayed at the Rio, and as far as I'm aware we weren't charged for parking (though it's entirely possible that we were and the person driving just never mentioned it). Granted, the Rio has a reputation for being a dive compared to the rest of Las Vegas, but the casino in Oklahoma I have the most experience with is literally made of temporary trailer buildings, so it seemed nice enough to me. (And the Excalibur, the only other casino in Nevada I've been in and which does charge for parking, wasn't that much nicer. Actually, I liked the room better at the Rio.)

I imagine you could save a few bucks by staying at the Rio and then just taking Uber or whatever over to the actual Strip, since it's not that far of a drive. (I wouldn't try to walk it, though, since that bridge over I-15 seems like it would be dicey.)

It depends when you went to Vegas.  For the most part, paying to park is a relatively new charge to the visitors which only began in 2016.  If you visited the Rio before that, parking wasn't charged.  If you were at the Excalibur in 2016 or later, then parking fees had become a thing by then.  Most of my visits were pre-2016.  My sole visit after 2016 only involved Ubering so I didn't pay for parking.

I've been in Vegas numerous times, but Rio is one place I've never stayed.  This is going back 10+ years, but I've always heard at that time the rooms were large but a little dated.

I have walked from the Strip to the Rio and back.  It's about a mile walk along a heavily used roadway, over I-15.  It's no different than a walk I've done in other cities.  A lot of people have said they don't want to walk it, but it really is a simple walk. 

Quote from: formulanone on October 27, 2023, 04:19:16 PM
If you have $100 to gamble, you probably have the wherewithal for paying for Pre-Check.

Or, I spend an extra 20 minutes in the security line, and I have $100 more to gamble with.

Quote from: gonealookin on October 27, 2023, 04:12:34 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 03:58:33 PM
Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)

I mean, you mentioned Vegas upthread. Good luck getting anywhere near the Strip for free, and if you do, it's probably a spot your car could get stolen.

One would hope parking would be included in the "Resort Fee" in Vegas, but, nope.

Pulling one at random, the Mandalay Bay (https://www.resortfeechecker.com/203613-resort_fee_mandalay_bay_resort_casino.html), the Resort Fee is $44.22/night and there's an additional $18 daily charge for self parking.

Well, resort fees have been around since 2009 or so (a little later at Caesar's branded casinos).  Parking Fees have been around since 2016.  The purchase of the fee is to extract more money from the visitor, so blending it into the Resort Fee wouldn't have made any sense.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 10:15:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2023, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 06:54:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 03:58:33 PM
Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)
Wut.  We're roadgeeks.  We go everywhere, rural, suburban and urban.

I prefer driving into Manhattan over taking transit on the weekends.  The difference in cost between taking a train in and parking isn't too bad and then you're free to leave whenever you like instead of having to worry about a train schedule.

Entrance fees to major national parks are now equivalent to a day's worth of parking in Manhattan as well.

If you do more than five NPS site visits a year that entrance fee investment can be significantly lessened by getting an annual pass.
Depends on the sites.  Most NPS sites are actually free.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 10:36:30 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 01:33:36 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 01:00:52 PM
Plus, as I understand it, even with PreCheck there's still a random chance you could be forced to use the regular line.

There are two ways that could happen that I know of:

1) Occasionally, your Known Traveler Number (KTN) will not appear on your boarding pass. This can usually be resolved by printing a new boarding pass, updating it online if you're using a mobile boarding pass, or worst-case, speaking to a travel agent.

2) The TSA lines aren't always 24-hour and may not be open at particularly light-traffic times. But even if it's closed, it usually means there's no line at regular security, and you're usually given a card to use the benefits of Pre-Check in the regular line.


Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 01:00:52 PM
My complaints with NEXUS are similar: it's basically a financial cost and hassle for something that everyone used to get before 9/11.  IMO we should go back to the way things were before 9/11 (mostly) and get rid of the security theater.  Keep the few things that actually help (like securing the cockpit), get rid of the rest.

The value of NEXUS is mostly for land crossings, since the designated lanes can save hours at peak times, and it generally reduces the questioning even if using a regular lane.
I know what it's used for.  I just don't see why it should be necessary to fork over money and go through the hassle to get that.  I'm old enough to remember crossing the border with no more hassle than paying a toll at a Thruway toll barrier (I don't think I even truly began to comprehend what it meant for Canada to be a foreign country until after 9/11, in fact) and Mom and I could wait for Dad at the airport gate with just a simple trip through a metal detector that took all of 30 seconds at the most (I actually have a LOT of experience with the Rochester airport as a result, but all of it is pre-9/11 and none that I remember involves a plane (I was a toddler the last time I actually flew somewhere), so it's all useless) when he returned home from business trips.  That was the normal experience.  Everyone had it.  No "trusted traveler" program needed.  I'm guessing from your age that you probably see the post-9/11 security theater world as "normal" and "the way things are", since you're too young to have remembered how it used to be.

Quote from: hbelkins on October 27, 2023, 03:51:17 PM
All this talk about the inconvenience of flying, and no one has touched on the real inconvenience -- limits on how much you can take with you.

If  you're traveling by car, you can pack as much as the car will hold and you're good. Extra shoes? A cooler full of pop so you don't have to buy it from overpriced hotel vending machines? Snacks for the week? A couple of extra pairs of shoes? Your laptop and camera? Sure!

Car travel isn't as fast, especially if you want to go a long distance, but it's certainly more convenient and you're more in control of your itinerary.
Exactly.  This is especially true since my luggage isn't airplane-optimized, but even if it were, the liquids ban means that I can't simply take my usual shampoo, conditioner, contact lens solution, toothpaste, or moisturizer.

Quote from: Bruce on October 27, 2023, 03:56:26 PM
having to rearrange things so your car is less likely to be a target for random theft.
This is why I would never want to own a SUV, CUV, or pickup truck.  Nobody can see what's in your trunk unless it is open.

Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 04:50:13 PM
I prefer to be treated like a respectable member of society, not as a strange cross between convict and cattle.
Exactly.  In fact, that is practically a deal-breaker for me in and of itself.

Quote from: gonealookin on October 27, 2023, 06:33:17 PM
The Strip resorts, and some/most of them downtown, are the only places that charge for parking.
Anyone else momentarily think of some other definition of "strip" after all the discussion of nude flying?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2023, 11:29:08 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 10:15:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2023, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 06:54:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 03:58:33 PM
Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)
Wut.  We're roadgeeks.  We go everywhere, rural, suburban and urban.

I prefer driving into Manhattan over taking transit on the weekends.  The difference in cost between taking a train in and parking isn't too bad and then you're free to leave whenever you like instead of having to worry about a train schedule.

Entrance fees to major national parks are now equivalent to a day's worth of parking in Manhattan as well.

If you do more than five NPS site visits a year that entrance fee investment can be significantly lessened by getting an annual pass.
Depends on the sites.  Most NPS sites are actually free.

Around here being surrounded by Pinnacles, Sequoia, Kings Canyon and Yosemite it works out for day trips.  Pinnacles is the cheapest out of the lot with a $30 entry fee for private vehicles.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on October 27, 2023, 11:55:28 PM
Speaking of the uselessness of airport security, Washington State Senator Jeff Wilson was found to have a pistol in his briefcase in the Hong Kong airport.  He and his family were going to SE Asia for a vacation and he says he simply forgot the pistol was there.  His flights originated in Portland, Oregon, and it is unclear why they did not detact the pistol.  Wilson's travel plans will be greatly interupted, they granted him bail but he is not allowed to leave the city and they kept his passport.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/24/us-state-senator-arrested-hong-kong-pistol
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on October 28, 2023, 12:27:48 AM
Quote from: kkt on October 27, 2023, 11:55:28 PM
Speaking of the uselessness of airport security, Washington State Senator Jeff Wilson was found to have a pistol in his briefcase in the Hong Kong airport.  He and his family were going to SE Asia for a vacation and he says he simply forgot the pistol was there.  His flights originated in Portland, Oregon, and it is unclear why they did not detact the pistol.  Wilson's travel plans will be greatly interupted, they granted him bail but he is not allowed to leave the city and they kept his passport.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/24/us-state-senator-arrested-hong-kong-pistol


Per the article:

Quote"We are learning about the incident with [Wilson] at the same time as the press and public here in America. As I understand it, this was an honest mistake," Washington state's senate Republican leader, John Braun, said in a statement, according to the Journal.

If this happened to a normal person:

Quote"We'll hold hearings to find out who is responsible.  And we hope this person never carries a gun again.  This is not a mistake and it should have never happened"
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: tmoore952 on October 28, 2023, 12:36:44 AM
My two cents:

I also am old enough to have gone into airports pre-9/11 (actually at this point, it's still been more years pre-9/11 than years since) and remember just having to step through a metal detector to see people off, or welcome people back. That being said, I don't want those days back. I don't want to get into the reasons because it will get political real fast. You can read between the lines.

I went to my niece's wedding in September in Illinois (on a non-holiday weekend). About a 700 mile drive one way, which I have done in the past. With both me and my wife working, and my son in school, the only way we could pull that off in September was by flying. It has its benefits.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 28, 2023, 08:03:46 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2023, 11:29:08 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 10:15:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2023, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 06:54:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 03:58:33 PM
Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)
Wut.  We're roadgeeks.  We go everywhere, rural, suburban and urban.

I prefer driving into Manhattan over taking transit on the weekends.  The difference in cost between taking a train in and parking isn't too bad and then you're free to leave whenever you like instead of having to worry about a train schedule.

Entrance fees to major national parks are now equivalent to a day's worth of parking in Manhattan as well.

If you do more than five NPS site visits a year that entrance fee investment can be significantly lessened by getting an annual pass.
Depends on the sites.  Most NPS sites are actually free.

Around here being surrounded by Pinnacles, Sequoia, Kings Canyon and Yosemite it works out for day trips.  Pinnacles is the cheapest out of the lot with a $30 entry fee for private vehicles.
Well, sure.  Like I said, depends on the sites.  I'm a member of a club of national park visitors and our forum has a number of stories of people getting an annual pass, going on some big trip to hit a bunch of "lesser" NPS sites, and then getting annoyed with how many free sites there are (and how the passes do not cover anything but the entrance fee, which is a separate "issue"...).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 28, 2023, 08:06:06 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 28, 2023, 12:27:48 AM
Quote from: kkt on October 27, 2023, 11:55:28 PM
Speaking of the uselessness of airport security, Washington State Senator Jeff Wilson was found to have a pistol in his briefcase in the Hong Kong airport.  He and his family were going to SE Asia for a vacation and he says he simply forgot the pistol was there.  His flights originated in Portland, Oregon, and it is unclear why they did not detact the pistol.  Wilson's travel plans will be greatly interupted, they granted him bail but he is not allowed to leave the city and they kept his passport.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/24/us-state-senator-arrested-hong-kong-pistol


Per the article:

Quote"We are learning about the incident with [Wilson] at the same time as the press and public here in America. As I understand it, this was an honest mistake," Washington state's senate Republican leader, John Braun, said in a statement, according to the Journal.

If this happened to a normal person:

Quote"We'll hold hearings to find out who is responsible.  And we hope this person never carries a gun again.  This is not a mistake and it should have never happened"
It does being the definition of "responsible gun owner" into question.  Should irresponsible gun owners be allowed to own guns?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 28, 2023, 08:07:47 AM


Quote from: tmoore952 on October 28, 2023, 12:36:44 AM
My two cents:

I also am old enough to have gone into airports pre-9/11 (actually at this point, it's still been more years pre-9/11 than years since) and remember just having to step through a metal detector to see people off, or welcome people back. That being said, I don't want those days back. I don't want to get into the reasons because it will get political real fast. You can read between the lines.

No, we can't.  Kind of hard to think of airport security as partisan in some way? 

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on October 28, 2023, 08:45:25 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 28, 2023, 12:27:48 AM
Quote from: kkt on October 27, 2023, 11:55:28 PM
Speaking of the uselessness of airport security, Washington State Senator Jeff Wilson was found to have a pistol in his briefcase in the Hong Kong airport.  He and his family were going to SE Asia for a vacation and he says he simply forgot the pistol was there.  His flights originated in Portland, Oregon, and it is unclear why they did not detact the pistol.  Wilson's travel plans will be greatly interupted, they granted him bail but he is not allowed to leave the city and they kept his passport.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/24/us-state-senator-arrested-hong-kong-pistol


Per the article:

Quote"We are learning about the incident with [Wilson] at the same time as the press and public here in America. As I understand it, this was an honest mistake," Washington state's senate Republican leader, John Braun, said in a statement, according to the Journal.

If this happened to a normal person:

Quote"We'll hold hearings to find out who is responsible.  And we hope this person never carries a gun again.  This is not a mistake and it should have never happened"

Oh, so it's everyone else's fault but the gun owner? Responsibility and social contract is why we (some of us begrudgingly) allow gun ownership in the first place.

Besides, if he flew in a private jet, as politicians or wealthy prefer due to anonymity, there is no security, only customs points.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on October 28, 2023, 09:07:29 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 03:58:33 PM
Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)

I just spent most of the week in New York. While I took Amtrak (and paid to park, for which I'll be reimbursed), and while I could have gotten free parking in New York, that's only because of the particular building to which I was going. Good luck to anyone else trying to find free parking, or even cheap parking, in Lower Manhattan.

BTW, my next trip is to Seattle. As much as I'd love to drive out there and drive back, there is zero chance of that happening because of the time involved. I don't care that I'd never be reimbursed for the mileage (which would add up to far more than the roundtrip airfare), but it would simply take me away from being able to get work done at a time when it needs to get done for things relating to that very trip.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: tmoore952 on October 28, 2023, 11:07:44 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 28, 2023, 08:07:47 AM


Quote from: tmoore952 on October 28, 2023, 12:36:44 AM
My two cents:

I also am old enough to have gone into airports pre-9/11 (actually at this point, it's still been more years pre-9/11 than years since) and remember just having to step through a metal detector to see people off, or welcome people back. That being said, I don't want those days back. I don't want to get into the reasons because it will get political real fast. You can read between the lines.

No, we can't.  Kind of hard to think of airport security as partisan in some way?

Remember that I am talking about going back to the days when it was ONLY metal detectors. Has to do with people being in the boarding area who don't have/share the same common interest of the travelers for getting to their destination safely (and who also have not spent the $$$ for the ticket), and who might bring in non-metal things for disruption. Could be anything from jilted spouses to paranoid people (like what happened in Maine this week). Things that 3-D printers can make. The conversation could get into who can carry what.

I only expanded on this because you asked me to. This is a dumb discussion, if you ask me. It doesn't matter whether people think post-9/11 security is overkill (and we should go back to the old days), because it is now the "normal" (to quote an earlier poster), and it isn't going back.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on October 28, 2023, 11:45:46 AM
I don't mind most security at the airport. Removing shoes has got to go, and frankly leaving a belt on should be ok also. 

Back in 1996, I was a volunteer for the All-Star game in Philly, and my station was at the airport.  I walked back and forth thru security numerous times during my shifts.  I even asked if I had to go thru security, and they almost were apologetic that yeah, I had to - even pilots had to go thru.  At the end of the All-Star week, I and other volunteers went into an area they were doing construction and asked for a screwdriver to take down some All-Star game signs as souvenirs.  They had no issues.

I don't know if it was at airports or other places involving heavy security, but I remember a time or two going thru security lines and if we had a cell phone it had to be turned on so they could see it working (this may have even been pre-9/11; it's been so long).

My only beef with airport security is that they need to be more consistent.  Last time my wife and I flew, we were in the same line.  There were two security booths.  The first one had someone yelling loudly "I JUST NEED YOUR BOARDING PASS. DO NOT GIVE ME YOUR ID".  When someone approached his line with their ID out, they loudly said "I SAID I DON'T NEED YOUR ID".  The other security person was checking boarding passes, but also wanted your ID.  But this person was much quieter.  So everyone who put their ID away and got this person got an irritated response from that security person they had to pull out their ID again. 

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: vdeane on October 28, 2023, 05:15:31 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 28, 2023, 11:07:44 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 28, 2023, 08:07:47 AM


Quote from: tmoore952 on October 28, 2023, 12:36:44 AM
My two cents:

I also am old enough to have gone into airports pre-9/11 (actually at this point, it's still been more years pre-9/11 than years since) and remember just having to step through a metal detector to see people off, or welcome people back. That being said, I don't want those days back. I don't want to get into the reasons because it will get political real fast. You can read between the lines.

No, we can't.  Kind of hard to think of airport security as partisan in some way?

Remember that I am talking about going back to the days when it was ONLY metal detectors. Has to do with people being in the boarding area who don't have/share the same common interest of the travelers for getting to their destination safely (and who also have not spent the $$$ for the ticket), and who might bring in non-metal things for disruption. Could be anything from jilted spouses to paranoid people (like what happened in Maine this week). Things that 3-D printers can make. The conversation could get into who can carry what.

I only expanded on this because you asked me to. This is a dumb discussion, if you ask me. It doesn't matter whether people think post-9/11 security is overkill (and we should go back to the old days), because it is now the "normal" (to quote an earlier poster), and it isn't going back.
I did say "keep the few things that actually help, dump the rest".  And we could stand to learn from other countries, which have much less invasive security (they don't ban liquids or "pat down" people so aggressively, for instance; in short, they don't treat flyers like criminals).

We lost a lot of functionality when implementing the current system, too.  What used to be people waiting at the gate for their loved ones is now people circling the airport in cars, unsure if they'll be waiting another 15 minutes or 15 seconds.  Cell phone lots, for instance, are something that would not be needed if it weren't for our current system.  And everyone around where I live who spent years complaining that the only local Chic-fil-A was in the airport wouldn't have needed to complain if security were at the gate rather than centralized and blocking off the food court (something that was only needed due to security now being such a hassle to get through).  But there will always be another "thing" that can be used by a bad guy; ultimately, trying to ban or screen all the "things" is doomed to fail.

The TSA doesn't exactly have a very good track record of stopping things like guns, anyways.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on October 28, 2023, 06:00:50 PM
It's not clear to me why cell phone lots are due to airport security.  Arriving passengers don't go through a security check.  The cell phone lot is because how long it'll take the plane to get the gate and the passengers off varies widely.  We can still park in the short term parking lot and meet our arriving family and friends at the baggage claim.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 28, 2023, 06:54:20 PM
Quote from: kkt on October 28, 2023, 06:00:50 PM
It's not clear to me why cell phone lots are due to airport security.  Arriving passengers don't go through a security check.  The cell phone lot is because how long it'll take the plane to get the gate and the passengers off varies widely.  We can still park in the short term parking lot and meet our arriving family and friends at the baggage claim.

Also worth noting that the increased airport security post-9/11 came at around the same time as cell phones were becoming an everyday personal item.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 28, 2023, 06:59:10 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 05:38:36 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 03:58:33 PM
Who goes to places that charge for parking? (And if you're on a road trip...it's probably more interesting to not take the toll roads.)

"Places" as in cities, or specific destinations? It's almost impossible to visit a major city without paying for parking somewhere along the way.

I guess I only visit minor cities, then. It's not hard to find free parking in downtown OKC, although I have an unfair home-field advantage there. But even so, I've never had to pay for parking in Tulsa, Kansas City, or Dallas. Maybe I'm just lucky in that I don't normally frequent (or even enjoy) things like arena concerts where paying to park would be a given.

I would consider all of those to be mid-sized cities except for Dallas, and Dallas is so sprawling that parking probably isn't at a premium like it is in a more compact city like NYC or Toronto. Paying for parking is unfortunately not limited to events venues in most large cities... it's to be expected unless you're just dropping off passengers somewhere.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on October 28, 2023, 07:20:45 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 28, 2023, 11:45:46 AM
I don't know if it was at airports or other places involving heavy security, but I remember a time or two going thru security lines and if we had a cell phone it had to be turned on so they could see it working (this may have even been pre-9/11; it's been so long).

If I'm flying out of Canada, I have been given the dreaded SSSS (https://www.travelandleisure.com/ssss-on-boarding-pass-7547257) (this entails more stringent checks) on two occasions. I had to power on all electronic devices and verify they boot up, which took a few extra seconds per device, and about 5-6 minutes of standing to the side of the end of the security line. I have heard that if the screen is blank, you can charge it and then verify its operation. I have not been asked to perform this specific procedure in the US (with roughly 850-900 trips through security in this lifetime), but at least when I saw it print on my pass the second time, I permitted myself an extra 20 minutes or so than usual, though I budget a little more time for CPB and customs.

I have no idea if you are required to surrender an electronic device which suddenly refuses to turn on...

QuoteMy only beef with airport security is that they need to be more consistent.  Last time my wife and I flew, we were in the same line.  There were two security booths.  The first one had someone yelling loudly "I JUST NEED YOUR BOARDING PASS. DO NOT GIVE ME YOUR ID".  When someone approached his line with their ID out, they loudly said "I SAID I DON'T NEED YOUR ID".  The other security person was checking boarding passes, but also wanted your ID.  But this person was much quieter.  So everyone who put their ID away and got this person got an irritated response from that security person they had to pull out their ID again. 

Yeah, and I think they do this somewhat on purpose; there's some similarity between airports, but there's a lot of the procedure which is the same. The TSA always a wants some form of identification, and in some cases, they have dispensed with needing to actually see your boarding pass. 

Larger airports have line checkers which serve no official purpose and hold no authority, but verify your boarding pass to make sure you're either (1) not mistakenly jumping into the "Premium Status" or pre-Check line (2) in the right terminal (3) have a boarding pass at all (4) have no right to see your ID.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: vdeane on October 28, 2023, 08:54:56 PM
Quote from: kkt on October 28, 2023, 06:00:50 PM
It's not clear to me why cell phone lots are due to airport security.  Arriving passengers don't go through a security check.  The cell phone lot is because how long it'll take the plane to get the gate and the passengers off varies widely.  We can still park in the short term parking lot and meet our arriving family and friends at the baggage claim.

Isn't the whole point of cell phone lots so that people circling in cars waiting for an arriving passenger for a status update?  If they were at the gate and not in their cars, no cell phone lot needed - in fact, they could get the update straight from the airport and avoid the call in the first place!
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 28, 2023, 09:04:36 PM
To be fair, before cell phones, my father hated paying for parking at the airport, so he would circle around.  Didn't have anything to do with security.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on October 28, 2023, 09:40:09 PM
I hated circling around, so I would sit somewhere near the airport but not in it while waiting for the person I was picking up to call or text that they were at the curb.  Or pay a few $ and park for half an hour and meet them at the baggage claim.  When my kid was under 18 and flying unaccompanied we had to do a signoff with a flight attendant.  I think that was at the airline's ticket counter.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 28, 2023, 09:59:07 PM
Quote from: kkt on October 28, 2023, 09:40:09 PM
I hated circling around, so I would sit somewhere near the airport but not in it while waiting for the person I was picking up to call or text that they were at the curb.  Or pay a few $ and park for half an hour and meet them at the baggage claim.  When my kid was under 18 and flying unaccompanied we had to do a signoff with a flight attendant.  I think that was at the airline's ticket counter.
Like I said, before cell phones...it's not like I could call my father when he was in the car... :D

Kids these days...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on October 28, 2023, 10:51:32 PM
I'm very fortunate - I live 20 minutes from PHL.  If someone is arriving that I need to pick up, I tell them to text me when they land.  By the time I get there, they're usually just getting to the curb. 

And in all the wrongs of PHL, the one thing they did right was their cell phone lot.  It's on an abandoned segment of 291 East, in which traffic goes westward with angled or parallel parking options, and has easy access directly into the arrivals roadway.  (The Uber/Lyft driver waiting area is also on an abandoned segment of 291 East as well.)

Quote from: vdeane on October 28, 2023, 08:54:56 PM
Quote from: kkt on October 28, 2023, 06:00:50 PM
It's not clear to me why cell phone lots are due to airport security.  Arriving passengers don't go through a security check.  The cell phone lot is because how long it'll take the plane to get the gate and the passengers off varies widely.  We can still park in the short term parking lot and meet our arriving family and friends at the baggage claim.

Isn't the whole point of cell phone lots so that people circling in cars waiting for an arriving passenger for a status update?  If they were at the gate and not in their cars, no cell phone lot needed - in fact, they could get the update straight from the airport and avoid the call in the first place!

Before 9/11, people could wait a bit longer at the curb waiting for the person they were picking up. But it also caused some delays as people were clogging up arrival roadways. 

Besides, we're dealing with a general population that'll spend 15 minutes in a drive-thru line rather than 5 minutes of getting out of their car and going inside.  Restaurants and other places are used to dealing with people not wanting to get out of their cars.  Airports are similar.  And unlike most restaurants, at most airports you'll need to pay to park the car and go inside.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 29, 2023, 07:58:57 AM


Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 28, 2023, 10:51:32 PM

Before 9/11, people could wait a bit longer at the curb waiting for the person they were picking up. But it also caused some delays as people were clogging up arrival roadways. 

Depended on the airport.  At BDL (Bradley Int'l/Hartford/Springfield), they had police or troopers there enforcing the no parking rule at the drop-off site quite strictly long before 9/11.

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on October 29, 2023, 11:31:17 AM
Quote from: vdeane on October 28, 2023, 08:54:56 PM
Isn't the whole point of cell phone lots so that people circling in cars waiting for an arriving passenger for a status update?  If they were at the gate and not in their cars, no cell phone lot needed - in fact, they could get the update straight from the airport and avoid the call in the first place!

But part of the point is that some people don't want to pay to park to meet someone. They want to go to the airport and pick up their friend or family member, but having them circle the airport, or park on a curb to wait, just contributes to congestion. The theory is that if the arriving passenger calls either when the plane pulls up to the gate, after deplaning, or after claiming checked bags (for people who do so), the person driving can then pull around to the terminal more or less around the time when the arriving passenger comes outside. An alternate solution—one in use at Reagan Airport after they closed the (minuscule) cell phone lot due to construction—is to allow some small amount of free parking, say half an hour.



One reason for not having to change your phone's display at security these days may well be that a majority of passengers have their boarding passes on their phones, so they change the display to show the boarding pass anyway.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on October 30, 2023, 01:48:38 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 10:36:30 PM
... the liquids ban means that I can't simply take my usual shampoo, conditioner, contact lens solution, toothpaste, or moisturizer.

I don't understand this.  Why can't you just buy little travel-sized squeeze bottles?  They're super cheap.  Just put however much you need in those for air travel.  (They're also good for camping trips.)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 30, 2023, 01:54:43 PM
I'm annoyed that I can't put a 5 ounce bottle of picaridin in my carry-on...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 30, 2023, 01:54:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 30, 2023, 01:48:38 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 10:36:30 PM
... the liquids ban means that I can't simply take my usual shampoo, conditioner, contact lens solution, toothpaste, or moisturizer.

I don't understand this.  Why can't you just buy little travel-sized squeeze bottles?  They're super cheap.  Just put however much you need in those for air travel.  (They're also good for camping trips.)

Toothpaste is a little harder. I just switch brands for however long my vacation is. Not that big of a deal.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on October 30, 2023, 02:37:25 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 30, 2023, 01:54:55 PM
Toothpaste is a little harder. I just switch brands for however long my vacation is. Not that big of a deal.

Same.  I don't really care what toothpaste I use in the short term.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on October 30, 2023, 02:53:02 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 30, 2023, 01:54:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 30, 2023, 01:48:38 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 10:36:30 PM
... the liquids ban means that I can't simply take my usual shampoo, conditioner, contact lens solution, toothpaste, or moisturizer.

I don't understand this.  Why can't you just buy little travel-sized squeeze bottles?  They're super cheap.  Just put however much you need in those for air travel.  (They're also good for camping trips.)

Toothpaste is a little harder. I just switch brands for however long my vacation is. Not that big of a deal.

I use Sensodyne, and I can find that in travel size tubes. Just ask the dentist next time for a few extra sample sizes, especially if they carry what you use.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on October 30, 2023, 03:46:28 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 30, 2023, 02:53:02 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 30, 2023, 01:54:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 30, 2023, 01:48:38 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 10:36:30 PM
... the liquids ban means that I can't simply take my usual shampoo, conditioner, contact lens solution, toothpaste, or moisturizer.

I don't understand this.  Why can't you just buy little travel-sized squeeze bottles?  They're super cheap.  Just put however much you need in those for air travel.  (They're also good for camping trips.)

Toothpaste is a little harder. I just switch brands for however long my vacation is. Not that big of a deal.

I use Sensodyne, and I can find that in travel size tubes. Just ask the dentist next time for a few extra sample sizes, especially if they carry what you use.

I've noticed an annoying trend of toothpaste either available in overpriced 1 ounce tubes and rational prices for 5 ounce tubes. The perfect size tubes of 3oz / 100g  now seems to be reserved for the whitening stuff which costs double (and has no discernible difference).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Duke87 on October 30, 2023, 07:09:22 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 10:36:30 PM
Exactly.  This is especially true since my luggage isn't airplane-optimized, but even if it were, the liquids ban means that I can't simply take my usual shampoo, conditioner, contact lens solution, toothpaste, or moisturizer.

Yeah this is a way in which the liquids policy is sexist. I just use the shampoo hotels provide when I'm away from home, and I have no use for conditioner or moisturizer. My wife is checking a bag or having to decant her various toiletry gels into 3 oz containers.

Toothpaste, meanwhile, a free tube of it that's 3 oz or less is handed out at every dentist visit so we're set there.

Quote from: 1995hoo on October 29, 2023, 11:31:17 AM
Quote from: vdeane on October 28, 2023, 08:54:56 PM
Isn't the whole point of cell phone lots so that people circling in cars waiting for an arriving passenger for a status update?  If they were at the gate and not in their cars, no cell phone lot needed - in fact, they could get the update straight from the airport and avoid the call in the first place!

But part of the point is that some people don't want to pay to park to meet someone. They want to go to the airport and pick up their friend or family member, but having them circle the airport, or park on a curb to wait, just contributes to congestion. The theory is that if the arriving passenger calls either when the plane pulls up to the gate, after deplaning, or after claiming checked bags (for people who do so), the person driving can then pull around to the terminal more or less around the time when the arriving passenger comes outside. An alternate solution—one in use at Reagan Airport after they closed the (minuscule) cell phone lot due to construction—is to allow some small amount of free parking, say half an hour.

Yeah this isn't a security paranoia thing. Sure, before 9/11 we'd park and go into the terminal to meet anyone we were picking up... but this was because since neither us nor them had a cellphone we didn't really have much choice - only way to meet up was to meet at a pre-agreed location.

Funny enough, we never met them at the gate... but since the people we were picking up were family arriving from Italy this wasn't an option anyway - when you arrive on an international flight you don't exit into the main area of the terminal, you're shunted directly to customs, and entering the customs screening area as someone not going through customs screening was already not allowed pre-9/11.


Nowadays, even if the ability to meet someone you're picking up at the gate were restored, I wouldn't because I'm not paying to park if I don't have to, nor would I care to walk all the way to the gate if I'm not flying anyway. Cellphone lot, therefore.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 30, 2023, 07:55:41 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 10:36:30 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 01:33:36 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 01:00:52 PM
My complaints with NEXUS are similar: it's basically a financial cost and hassle for something that everyone used to get before 9/11.  IMO we should go back to the way things were before 9/11 (mostly) and get rid of the security theater.  Keep the few things that actually help (like securing the cockpit), get rid of the rest.

The value of NEXUS is mostly for land crossings, since the designated lanes can save hours at peak times, and it generally reduces the questioning even if using a regular lane.
I know what it's used for.  I just don't see why it should be necessary to fork over money and go through the hassle to get that.  I'm old enough to remember crossing the border with no more hassle than paying a toll at a Thruway toll barrier (I don't think I even truly began to comprehend what it meant for Canada to be a foreign country until after 9/11, in fact) and Mom and I could wait for Dad at the airport gate with just a simple trip through a metal detector that took all of 30 seconds at the most (I actually have a LOT of experience with the Rochester airport as a result, but all of it is pre-9/11 and none that I remember involves a plane (I was a toddler the last time I actually flew somewhere), so it's all useless) when he returned home from business trips.  That was the normal experience.  Everyone had it.  No "trusted traveler" program needed.

I agree that the US/Canada border is more of a hassle than it needs to be given the safe nature of the border and amicable relations between the two countries. It shouldn't have to involve such intense questioning, or necessarily even a checkpoint at all, when compared to the European Union, for example. However, I do think the difference in immigration policies between the two countries is vast, and a big part of the reason that will never happen.

So knowing that what we have now likely isn't going away anytime soon, it's all about the value one places on the hassle reduction. For me, it's easily worth $10 per year. Even if I were to only cross the border once or twice per year it would be worth $10 to me, and I cross much more often than that in non-pandemic times. And I don't see the price as cost-prohibitive. Much like a state park entrance fee, it needs to be enough to prevent everyone from using it, or it would become too popular and lose its value. At the same time, it's well worth the price to those that use it regularly.


Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 10:36:30 PM
  I'm guessing from your age that you probably see the post-9/11 security theater world as "normal" and "the way things are", since you're too young to have remembered how it used to be.

Undeniably. I was only 2 when 9/11 occurred.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on October 30, 2023, 08:54:54 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 09:31:03 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 27, 2023, 04:07:24 AM
Everyone has $78?
Yes, everyone that has $382 (average flight cost in the US) has $78.

Talk about being privileged and out of touch. $80 dollars is a lot of money for some of us. Don't be so tone deaf and rude. I see that you're young, so you might not have ever struggled a day in your life, but I'm making assumptions.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on October 30, 2023, 09:01:27 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 12:39:07 PM
Actually, I would hardly qualify as a frequent flyer. 8-10 times per year tops.My comments were directed towards those who fly more frequently than that and could get TSA if they choose, but prefer to complain about the hassle of airport travel.

You are privileged. I had a feeling.

Quote from: Rothman on October 27, 2023, 12:11:54 PM
So, this idea of "just pay extra to skip the lines" just seems like a sort of microclassism to me.  If you can afford to pay, you get to skip the line, despite most of everyone being able to pass a background check.  It is much more of a money-making scheme than anything related to transportation safety.

On one hand, point taken. On the other, I just don't get the affordability argument when it's 20% of the cost of a single flight for five years. A drop in the bucket of the airline industry as a whole.
[/quote]

It's a lot of money to a broke person. You can't even seem to grasp this. Try to have some empathy.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: vdeane on October 30, 2023, 09:05:15 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 30, 2023, 07:55:41 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 10:36:30 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 01:33:36 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 01:00:52 PM
My complaints with NEXUS are similar: it's basically a financial cost and hassle for something that everyone used to get before 9/11.  IMO we should go back to the way things were before 9/11 (mostly) and get rid of the security theater.  Keep the few things that actually help (like securing the cockpit), get rid of the rest.

The value of NEXUS is mostly for land crossings, since the designated lanes can save hours at peak times, and it generally reduces the questioning even if using a regular lane.
I know what it's used for.  I just don't see why it should be necessary to fork over money and go through the hassle to get that.  I'm old enough to remember crossing the border with no more hassle than paying a toll at a Thruway toll barrier (I don't think I even truly began to comprehend what it meant for Canada to be a foreign country until after 9/11, in fact) and Mom and I could wait for Dad at the airport gate with just a simple trip through a metal detector that took all of 30 seconds at the most (I actually have a LOT of experience with the Rochester airport as a result, but all of it is pre-9/11 and none that I remember involves a plane (I was a toddler the last time I actually flew somewhere), so it's all useless) when he returned home from business trips.  That was the normal experience.  Everyone had it.  No "trusted traveler" program needed.

I agree that the US/Canada border is more of a hassle than it needs to be given the safe nature of the border and amicable relations between the two countries. It shouldn't have to involve such intense questioning, or necessarily even a checkpoint at all, when compared to the European Union, for example. However, I do think the difference in immigration policies between the two countries is vast, and a big part of the reason that will never happen.

So knowing that what we have now likely isn't going away anytime soon, it's all about the value one places on the hassle reduction. For me, it's easily worth $10 per year. Even if I were to only cross the border once or twice per year it would be worth $10 to me, and I cross much more often than that in non-pandemic times. And I don't see the price as cost-prohibitive. Much like a state park entrance fee, it needs to be enough to prevent everyone from using it, or it would become too popular and lose its value. At the same time, it's well worth the price to those that use it regularly.


Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 10:36:30 PM
  I'm guessing from your age that you probably see the post-9/11 security theater world as "normal" and "the way things are", since you're too young to have remembered how it used to be.

Undeniably. I was only 2 when 9/11 occurred.
Yeah, I'm not thinking in "cost/crossing" so much as "why should I pay for what used to be free?" (I'm also still mad that Hulu paywalled their service, and only subscribed once they picked up The Orville).  Incidentally, for me it's three hours each way to the border, so the process is a bit of a hassle, and the fact that I only manage to cross once every several years would probably mean that applying would just be suspicious.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on October 30, 2023, 09:13:38 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 04:50:13 PM
I prefer traveling by almost any other mode to traveling by air:  rail, bus, driving, even hitchhiking (although I haven't done that last one in years).
I prefer to be treated like a respectable member of society, not as a strange cross between convict and cattle.

Have you ridden a Greyhound in the last 20 years? I rode one in 2009, and they treated me like utter shit. A lot of shifty types ride the buses, which I guess is why they are rude, but they shouldn't be rude when you haven't done anything.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 30, 2023, 10:46:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 02:20:38 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 09:31:03 AM
Yes, everyone that has $382 (average flight cost in the US) has $78.

Honestly, I find that rather condescending of you, to assume that anyone who can afford $382 can afford $460, plus the time off and gas money it might take to go and actually get TSA PreCheck in the first place.

I think you took that too... figuratively?

I meant it in a literal sense, as in, if someone has $382 they could choose to spend $304 on a flight and $78 on Pre-Check if they so chose to prioritize a hassle free security experience over a more expensive flight. And $382 is just an average, anyways. Plenty of flights can be had for less than $382, especially on shorter and more popular routes, as you noted yourself. But plenty of flights cost more than $382, too - so Pre-Check is still only about 25% of the cost of a single flight, on average. Yet it continues to benefit you on future flights, so if you took three flights, it would be only 7% of the total spent; if you took five flights (even if it was one per year for five years), it would only be 4% of the total spent, and so on. But obviously, a 25% "upcharge" is too much for most people to consider using it just once - it must be considered in the context of one's long-term travel patterns, not just a single flight.


Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 02:20:38 PM
The last time my wife and I flew anywhere together (sixteen years ago), it was because one of her relatives had died and we needed to get to Minnesota for the funeral.  No time to plan ahead, no time to save up.  In fact, she was eight or nine months pregnant, so any savings we might have had should be going toward the baby.  In such a situation, a $382 plane ticket could all but wipe out a newlywed couple's bank account.

$382 in 2007 is not $382 today. According to current estimates, $382 today would be about $260 in 2007, after accounting for inflation. Also, TSA Pre-Check did not exist in 2007, as it was established in 2013. But in such a situation, TSA Pre-Check likely wouldn't have been a priority for you anyways, since you didn't fly very much (is that safe to assume?) and were focused on saving for other, more important life priorities.


Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 02:20:38 PM
You must live a rather privileged life.

I won't bother taking offense to that, but no, no I don't.  :-D

You and I must have very, very different ideas of what a privileged life is. While I have been privileged - not in the sense you're talking about, but in terms of personal enjoyment - to do a bit of traveling here and there, and a good deal of that has been by air (not by choice, because I'd choose to drive anywhere if I could), I have a bit of experience with airports and airplane travel, but I've never been on a flight for a purely recreational or vacation-based trip, have never left North America, and have only flown first-class twice (one was a free upgrade with airline points, and the other was... complicated, let's call it a surprise gift).

And while discussing financial situations isn't something I take any joy in because of how delicate it can be, I do happen to know a thing or two about my parents' situation when I was younger - I lived in a 1000 sq ft house on a busy street and was eligible for NSLP, for starters - and I also happen have been exposed, a time or two, to people that live an unquestionably privileged life, and have seen how their lifestyle compares to my own, so I can say with conviction that I definitely don't live a privileged life in any sense of the word.


Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 02:20:38 PM
You might as well say that someone who can afford a plane ticket doesn't need to be paid for PTO that day, because they can obviously stand to lose out on 8 hours' worth of $9.75/hour wages.

Not in the least. But someone who can afford a plane ticket can afford to put one penny per hour worked for five years towards TSA Pre-Check if they so chose to use their hard-earned money that way and if it aligns with their travel priorities. Or here in New York, just being diligent about returning your cans and bottles for five years would probably do the trick.


Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 06:52:01 PM
Quote from: thspfc on October 27, 2023, 05:40:08 PM
The debate about whether "if you have $382 then you also have $78" is true is funny to me because, that's not even the question. The flight itself, and therefore the expense of the flight, is more important than the amount of time it takes to get on and off that flight. Just because you can afford to pay the extra $78 doesn't mean you should. Paying the $78 to save a bit of time on one round trip flight for the whole duration of the 5 years is just lighting money on fire unless you're wealthy to the point where you might as well pay for business class too.

Except that this whole discussion started when he said...

Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:44:53 PM
TSA pre-check is a must-have.

I still stand by this, by the way. TSA is a must-have if you want hassle-free security. It was, however, very dunderheaded of me to try to place that in the broader context of overrated vs. underrated, because of how readily that could be - and has been - taken out of context.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 30, 2023, 10:58:28 PM
Quote from: bugo on October 30, 2023, 08:54:54 PM
I'm making assumptions.

Yes. Yes, you are. Other points addressed above.


Quote from: bugo on October 30, 2023, 08:54:54 PM
It's a lot of money to a broke person. You can't even seem to grasp this. Try to have some empathy.

I understand that $78 is a lot of money, but I do not understand the lack of contextual awareness on this issue. Flights cost a lot more than $78, so the $78 is only worth it if you're a semi-regular flyer. If you're not, then by all means, please don't throw $78 to the wind.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 30, 2023, 11:25:34 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 05:01:51 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 27, 2023, 04:52:14 PM
Not to mention that they apparently have to see you naked in order to fly nowadays. (Few old school metal detectors, only the new nude-o-scopes.)

Oh, if air travel were done in the nude, that might sway me to liking it more.  But only if they're liberal in handing out blankets, because I get cold very easily.

On a lighter note...  a plane isn't exactly the type of environment where that would be enjoyable.  :sombrero:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on October 30, 2023, 11:32:49 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 30, 2023, 10:46:12 PMI still stand by this, by the way. TSA [Pre-Check] is a must-have if you want hassle-free security. It was, however, very dunderheaded to try and place that in the broader context of overrated vs. underrated, because of how readily that could be - and has been - taken out of context.

I think the context of 8-10 plane journeys per year (round-trip?) is very important.  I can see TSA Pre-Check making sense for air travel that frequent, and if it is work-related, I can see an employer offering to pay the fee (and grant paid time off for the interview) to recruit or retain talented personnel.

However, that frequency puts you in about the 90th percentile among Americans (41% of whom hadn't travelled by air at all in the year previous to a 2019 survey (https://www.statista.com/statistics/539473/airline-travelers-number-of-trips/)).  It also tends to go with lifestyle adjustments, such as careful choice of carry-on luggage and pre-optimization of packing, that make it easier to accommodate time, space, and weight constraints when flying.

People who do not travel by air as frequently, or at all (I personally haven't flown anywhere since 2012), reasonably view TSA Pre-Check as an unnecessary expense.  They typically also consider the savings in hassle factor quite small compared to the extra effort involved in navigating the passenger air transport system as an infrequent flier.  And this is without getting into the equity concerns others have raised.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on October 30, 2023, 11:55:11 PM
Quote from: formulanone on October 30, 2023, 03:46:28 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 30, 2023, 02:53:02 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 30, 2023, 01:54:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 30, 2023, 01:48:38 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 10:36:30 PM
... the liquids ban means that I can't simply take my usual shampoo, conditioner, contact lens solution, toothpaste, or moisturizer.

I don't understand this.  Why can't you just buy little travel-sized squeeze bottles?  They're super cheap.  Just put however much you need in those for air travel.  (They're also good for camping trips.)

Toothpaste is a little harder. I just switch brands for however long my vacation is. Not that big of a deal.

I use Sensodyne, and I can find that in travel size tubes. Just ask the dentist next time for a few extra sample sizes, especially if they carry what you use.

I've noticed an annoying trend of toothpaste either available in overpriced 1 ounce tubes and rational prices for 5 ounce tubes. The perfect size tubes of 3oz / 100g  now seems to be reserved for the whitening stuff which costs double (and has no discernible difference).

I mentioned my disdain for the 'new' sized toothpaste tubes in a post that I made in a different forvm in here a sew weeks ago, my thoughts on 'snrinkflation.  I had just bought a supply of a major brand of toothpaste and the tubes were about HALF the size that they were the last time, just over 100 g now v just over 230 g each last time. That grated me. GRRRrrr . . .

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 31, 2023, 07:06:13 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 30, 2023, 11:32:49 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 30, 2023, 10:46:12 PMI still stand by this, by the way. TSA [Pre-Check] is a must-have if you want hassle-free security. It was, however, very dunderheaded to try and place that in the broader context of overrated vs. underrated, because of how readily that could be - and has been - taken out of context.

I think the context of 8-10 plane journeys per year (round-trip?) is very important.  I can see TSA Pre-Check making sense for air travel that frequent, and if it is work-related, I can see an employer offering to pay the fee (and grant paid time off for the interview) to recruit or retain talented personnel.

However, that frequency puts you in about the 90th percentile among Americans (41% of whom hadn't travelled by air at all in the year previous to a 2019 survey (https://www.statista.com/statistics/539473/airline-travelers-number-of-trips/)).  It also tends to go with lifestyle adjustments, such as careful choice of carry-on luggage and pre-optimization of packing, that make it easier to accommodate time, space, and weight constraints when flying.

People who do not travel by air as frequently, or at all (I personally haven't flown anywhere since 2012), reasonably view TSA Pre-Check as an unnecessary expense.  They typically also consider the savings in hassle factor quite small compared to the extra effort involved in navigating the passenger air transport system as an infrequent flier.  And this is without getting into the equity concerns others have raised.
The conversation has now come full circle...maybe even a couple of times, with both sides making the same points.

Time to poll the audience to see who they agree with.

ETA: "The hassle of air travel is overrated because my employer pays me to fly much more often than the normal American adult and I have TSA Pre-Check like everyone else should" is also an interesting hot take...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 31, 2023, 08:53:42 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 30, 2023, 11:32:49 PM
I think the context of 8-10 plane journeys per year (round-trip?) is very important.

No, not round-trip, flights total, including the occasional trip with connections. Sorry for not making that important distinction clear or correcting it sooner. I've been on exactly six flights in 2023 and don't expect any more before the year is out. I don't recall how many in 2022 but I think it was less than that. The 8-10 guesstimate was on number of total flights per year and factored in a few years of heavier travel before the covid pandemic.


Quote from: J N Winkler on October 30, 2023, 11:32:49 PM
I can see TSA Pre-Check making sense for air travel that frequent, and if it is work-related, I can see an employer offering to pay the fee (and grant paid time off for the interview) to recruit or retain talented personnel.

Absolutely, that can and does occur, but that is not the case for me. While I have been on work-related flights, I can count them on one hand.



Quote from: Rothman on October 31, 2023, 07:06:13 AM
Time to poll the audience to see who they agree with.

Actually, I would be interested to know at what frequency of air travel people think TSA is worth it.. while understanding that can be a tricky question for people who don't fly much, or fly for work and didn't pay for it out of pocket.

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 31, 2023, 09:11:26 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 27, 2023, 03:51:17 PM
All this talk about the inconvenience of flying, and no one has touched on the real inconvenience -- limits on how much you can take with you.

If  you're traveling by car, you can pack as much as the car will hold and you're good. Extra shoes? A cooler full of pop so you don't have to buy it from overpriced hotel vending machines? Snacks for the week? A couple of extra pairs of shoes? Your laptop and camera? Sure!

Quote from: J N Winkler on October 30, 2023, 11:32:49 PM
I think the context of 8-10 plane journeys per year (round-trip?) is very important.  ...

It also tends to go with lifestyle adjustments, such as careful choice of carry-on luggage and pre-optimization of packing, that make it easier to accommodate time, space, and weight constraints when flying.

This is an interesting juxtaposition. Car travel simultaneously allows you to bring more with you, and requires you to bring more with you by virtue of taking longer. A 15-hour road trip requires a lot more "supplies" (such as drinks, snacks, and entertainment options) than a 2-hour flight.

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thenetwork on October 31, 2023, 09:39:06 AM
Re: Airport security

As much as I miss allowing non-passengers to pass through security to meet their party at the gates, on the other hand it's nice as a passenger to be able to traverse through the terminal(s) without all that extra foot traffic in my way.

Unless you are on a long layover, or waiting to board at a gate, most foot traffic in the concourses have a set place they are going (connecting flight, bathroom, food, baggage claim...so you don't run into those jams when someone arrives off the jet way and has to get hugged by 3 or more people waiting for their arrival.

Many of the hub airports are bad enough in the morning and afternoon with all the connecting flights.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on October 31, 2023, 10:24:16 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on October 31, 2023, 09:39:06 AM
As much as I miss allowing non-passengers to pass through security to meet their party at the gates
You can still try. When I flew out of O'Hare in August, nobody checked my boarding pass. Both security and the gate agent only looked at my passport. I don't know how that happened, or if they knew from my passport that I was supposed to be flying, but it sure seemed like I could have gotten all the way on the plane without a boarding pass.

Security requests to see your boarding pass when you don't have one? "Oh, no, I forgot to screenshot it and it's not loading!" They won't let you through, but you could go to the back of the line and leave without being arrested.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 31, 2023, 10:30:50 AM
Yeah, it's still possible to get through security without a boarding pass, with a good reason and some requisite paperwork. Not to mention airport employees and everyone that works at the stores and restaurants behind security.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on October 31, 2023, 11:00:21 AM
Quote from: thspfc on October 31, 2023, 10:24:16 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on October 31, 2023, 09:39:06 AM
As much as I miss allowing non-passengers to pass through security to meet their party at the gates
You can still try. When I flew out of O'Hare in August, nobody checked my boarding pass. Both security and the gate agent only looked at my passport. I don't know how that happened, or if they knew from my passport that I was supposed to be flying, but it sure seemed like I could have gotten all the way on the plane without a boarding pass.

Security requests to see your boarding pass when you don't have one? "Oh, no, I forgot to screenshot it and it's not loading!" They won't let you through, but you could go to the back of the line and leave without being arrested.

They know from the passport number or identification if you're supposed to fly on that date or not; perhaps a few hours afterwards if it's a very early morning flight. The airlines request it ahead of time and store it.

They won't arrest you without a boarding pass, they'll just suggest you leave the line if you don't have some sort of airport/airline access pass.

Now, I've heard of cases where you can refuse identification (or if it's lost/stolen (https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification)), but apparently you need to fill out a good bit of paperwork and verification swearing that you're a citizen or whatever, and supposed to be on a flight. I haven't seen this process directly, but I figure it has to take up extra time for the pat-downs and extra questions that ensue.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on October 31, 2023, 11:04:40 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on October 30, 2023, 07:09:22 PM
Yeah this is a way in which the liquids policy is sexist. I just use the shampoo hotels provide when I'm away from home, and I have no use for conditioner or moisturizer. My wife is checking a bag or having to decant her various toiletry gels into 3 oz containers.

Isn't it sexist to assume that women need more "pamper and primp" items for a trip?  I, for one, take showers much more frequently than my wife, therefore I use way more shampoo than she does.  I also use hair gel, while she doesn't use any product in her hair at all.  She does occasionally use a facial cleanser in the shower, but she doesn't on trips.

Quote from: webny99 on October 30, 2023, 10:46:12 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 02:20:38 PM

Quote from: webny99 on October 27, 2023, 09:31:03 AM
Yes, everyone that has $382 (average flight cost in the US) has $78.

Honestly, I find that rather condescending of you, to assume that anyone who can afford $382 can afford $460, plus the time off and gas money it might take to go and actually get TSA PreCheck in the first place.

I think you took that too... figuratively?

I meant it in a literal sense, as in, if someone has $382 they could choose to spend $304 on a flight and $78 on Pre-Check if they so chose to prioritize a hassle free security experience over a more expensive flight.

What?  Why bring up the average price of a plane ticket at all, if your solution is just for a person to buy a cheaper ticket?  News flash:  if someone struggles to afford an average-priced plane ticket, then chances are they're already buying the cheapest ticket available.

Quote from: webny99 on October 30, 2023, 10:46:12 PM
And $382 is just an average, anyways. Plenty of flights can be had for less than $382, especially on shorter and more popular routes, as you noted yourself. But plenty of flights cost more than $382, too - so Pre-Check is still only about 25% of the cost of a single flight, on average. Yet it continues to benefit you on future flights, so if you took three flights, it would be only 7% of the total spent; if you took five flights (even if it was one per year for five years), it would only be 4% of the total spent, and so on. But obviously, a 25% "upcharge" is too much for most people to consider using it just once - it must be considered in the context of one's long-term travel patterns, not just a single flight.

I don't care what the base price of the ticket is.  If the ticket prices is $65, it's still wrong to assume that, if someone is buying that ticket, then they can obviously also afford an additional $78.

And you're way too hung up on percentages.  Either a person has the extra money, or they don't.

Quote from: webny99 on October 30, 2023, 10:46:12 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 02:20:38 PM
The last time my wife and I flew anywhere together (sixteen years ago), it was because one of her relatives had died and we needed to get to Minnesota for the funeral.  No time to plan ahead, no time to save up.  In fact, she was eight or nine months pregnant, so any savings we might have had should be going toward the baby.  In such a situation, a $382 plane ticket could all but wipe out a newlywed couple's bank account.

$382 in 2007 is not $382 today. According to current estimates, $382 today would be about $260 in 2007, after accounting for inflation. Also, TSA Pre-Check did not exist in 2007, as it was established in 2013. But in such a situation, TSA Pre-Check likely wouldn't have been a priority for you anyways, since you didn't fly very much (is that safe to assume?) and were focused on saving for other, more important life priorities.

I don't care about inflation.  I don't remember the price of the ticket, and I don't care to.  It doesn't matter what year we last flew together.  My point is that it was an unexpected trip that could not be planned ahead for.  It was at a time in our lives when $78 (or $53 or whatever) was a big expense.

And you're right about not flying frequently and saving for other priorities.  But what you don't seem to comprehend is that some people prefer to save for other priorities even if they do fly frequently.  Or at least, when they weight the pros and cons, the pros don't necessarily outweigh the cons in their mind the way you obvoiusly think they do.

Quote from: webny99 on October 30, 2023, 10:46:12 PM
But someone who can afford a plane ticket can afford to ...

There you go again.  Assuming that everyone who flies isn't putting their last couple of bucks into that plane ticket.  That only the already-priveleged board commercial flights.  It's just not true.

Quote from: webny99 on October 30, 2023, 10:46:12 PM
TSA is a must-have if you want hassle-free security.

I want hassle-free security.  But that doesn't mean I'm willing to pay extra for it.  It is not a must-have.

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on October 31, 2023, 11:19:50 AM
Quote from: bugo on October 30, 2023, 09:13:38 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 04:50:13 PM
I prefer traveling by almost any other mode to traveling by air:  rail, bus, driving, even hitchhiking (although I haven't done that last one in years).
I prefer to be treated like a respectable member of society, not as a strange cross between convict and cattle.

Have you ridden a Greyhound in the last 20 years? I rode one in 2009, and they treated me like utter shit. A lot of shifty types ride the buses, which I guess is why they are rude, but they shouldn't be rude when you haven't done anything.

Yes.  Not since getting married, I think, but literally the first time I took Greyhound was 20 years ago exactly (well, I suppose it was in March 2003, so a hair longer than 20 years ago).  So yes, all of my Greyhound experience has been in the last 20 years.

Greyhound treats its passengers as luggage.  As an inconvenience.  As unimportant.  Yes, I get that.

But I've never gone to a Greyhound station with the full expectation that every single passenger would have to half-undress just to prove they're not sneaking weapons onboard.

And no Greyhound station has given me the cattle-like feeling of winding through this maze-like chute and that maze-like chute to get through the whatever three lines are required to get from front door to airplane, fearful to step out of place, surrounded by scores of other animals passengers making their same slow-moving progress toward whatever counter and man with a cattle prod badge is next down the path from pen to truck vestibule to gate.

Besides which, I've also traveled by bus in Mexico, which is an entirely more pleasant experience than here in the USA.  My most recent bus trip was in Mexico, not quite 200 miles in length, including one transfer, a year and a half ago.  It was part of a trip that also included flying (ICT→DFW→MTY then LRD→DFW→ICT), and the bus part of that trip was definitely more enjoyable than the airport part.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on October 31, 2023, 11:25:17 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 31, 2023, 09:11:26 AM
This is an interesting juxtaposition. Car travel simultaneously allows you to bring more with you, and requires you to bring more with you by virtue of taking longer. A 15-hour road trip requires a lot more "supplies" (such as drinks, snacks, and entertainment options) than a 2-hour flight.

As someone who has hitchhiked overnight before, I chuckle at the idea that traveling by car "requires" you to bring more stuff.  No it doesn't.  How much you pack is entirely up to you.

My road trips over the years have generally ranged from 650 to 1100 miles one-way, and I never pack snacks or drinks in the car.  When it's lunch time, we stop for lunch.  If one of us gets thirsty, we pick something up at a gas station.  And entertainment options?  Like what?  I get just as bored on a two-hour flight as on a long road trip—more, in fact, because a roadgeek always has something to catch his eye down on the ground.  A book is about all I need in either case.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 31, 2023, 12:38:54 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 31, 2023, 11:04:40 AM
I don't care what the base price of the ticket is.  If the ticket prices is $65, it's still wrong to assume that, if someone is buying that ticket, then they can obviously also afford an additional $78.

That wasn't the assumption. Any discussion of the value of Pre-Check, which is good for five years, is necessarily based on a long-term travel outlook and travel priorities, not on a single flight.


Quote from: kphoger on October 31, 2023, 11:04:40 AM
And you're way too hung up on percentages.  Either a person has the extra money, or they don't.

Percentages, yes. But mostly, context. The price relative to what you're actually paying for (the flight) is very important context. It's personal value proposition that necessarily requires a medium- to high volume of air travel. If you don't travel by air or do so only rarely, you shouldn't be considering Pre-Check to begin with - regardless of whether or not you have the money.


Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 02:20:38 PM
But what you don't seem to comprehend is that some people prefer to save for other priorities even if they do fly frequently.  Or at least, when they weight the pros and cons, the pros don't necessarily outweigh the cons in their mind the way you obvoiusly think they do.

That's where this (↓) comes into play:
Quote from: webny99 on October 31, 2023, 08:53:42 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 31, 2023, 07:06:13 AM
Time to poll the audience to see who they agree with.
Actually, I would be interested to know at what frequency of air travel people think TSA is worth it.. while understanding that can be a tricky question for people who don't fly much, or fly for work and didn't pay for it out of pocket.


Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2023, 02:20:38 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 30, 2023, 10:46:12 PM
But someone who can afford a plane ticket can afford to ...

There you go again.  Assuming that everyone who flies isn't putting their last couple of bucks into that plane ticket.  That only the already-priveleged board commercial flights.  It's just not true.

No, you must have stopped reading. That wasn't my assumption at all. Of course it wasn't, or everyone that boards a commercial flight would have Pre-Check, and regular security would cease to exist.

My assumption is that Pre-Check is a value proposition and that for many individuals, it clearly isn't worth the value. But if it was worth the value to them based on their level of air travel and desire for less hassle at the airport, it is not an unthinkable nor unattainable expense to save up for with some planning.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on October 31, 2023, 01:17:02 PM
Quote from: thspfc on October 31, 2023, 10:24:16 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on October 31, 2023, 09:39:06 AM
As much as I miss allowing non-passengers to pass through security to meet their party at the gates
You can still try. When I flew out of O'Hare in August, nobody checked my boarding pass. Both security and the gate agent only looked at my passport. I don't know how that happened, or if they knew from my passport that I was supposed to be flying, but it sure seemed like I could have gotten all the way on the plane without a boarding pass.

Security requests to see your boarding pass when you don't have one? "Oh, no, I forgot to screenshot it and it's not loading!" They won't let you through, but you could go to the back of the line and leave without being arrested.

Or they detain you for an hour while they check your record for warrants, and give you a written warning so that they will arrest you if you ever try it again.

Maybe take away your hard-earned TSA Precheck too.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on October 31, 2023, 02:16:29 PM
Another variable is the type of air journey.  A fair few of mine have been transatlantic, meaning security checks form just a small fraction of the total hassle factor, or been entirely outside the US in countries that have no obligation to honor TSA Pre-Check.

Besides the time savings--which I certainly agree would be justified above a certain frequency threshold--the relaxed search protocol is more likely to be valuable to fliers who don't want to check luggage at all or who are anxious about repatriating their belongings once they clear security.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 31, 2023, 06:27:56 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 31, 2023, 11:25:17 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 31, 2023, 09:11:26 AM
This is an interesting juxtaposition. Car travel simultaneously allows you to bring more with you, and requires you to bring more with you by virtue of taking longer. A 15-hour road trip requires a lot more "supplies" (such as drinks, snacks, and entertainment options) than a 2-hour flight.

As someone who has hitchhiked overnight before, I chuckle at the idea that traveling by car "requires" you to bring more stuff.  No it doesn't.  How much you pack is entirely up to you.

It generally requires more relative to what you'd pack for a flight. You may pack lightly for both... but chances are, you'll pack at least a little bit more for a car trip vs. a flight to the same destination.


Quote from: kphoger on October 31, 2023, 11:25:17 AM
My road trips over the years have generally ranged from 650 to 1100 miles one-way, and I never pack snacks or drinks in the car.  When it's lunch time, we stop for lunch.  If one of us gets thirsty, we pick something up at a gas station.

Wait a minute. On a trip of that length, packing your own drinks, snacks, and meals would be considerably cheaper than buying them, since you tend to pay a premium for restaurant service and convenience store items purchased ad hoc. With a family, I would think the difference would add up to, well... $78, at least, and possibly a lot more.

Just as one basic example, $5 for a 24-pack of water bottles to throw in the trunk would save about $20 vs. buying 24 individual water bottles at a low estimate of $1 each.


Quote from: kphoger on October 31, 2023, 11:25:17 AM
And entertainment options?  Like what?  I get just as bored on a two-hour flight as on a long road trip—more, in fact, because a roadgeek always has something to catch his eye down on the ground.  A book is about all I need in either case.

I don't know... books, CD's, headphones. Depends on one's preferences and if kids are involved.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on October 31, 2023, 06:36:16 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 31, 2023, 02:16:29 PM
Besides the time savings--which I certainly agree would be justified above a certain frequency threshold--the relaxed search protocol is more likely to be valuable to fliers who don't want to check luggage at all or who are anxious about repatriating their belongings once they clear security.

Checked luggage is another whole subject. A single checked bag can cost half as much as TSA Pre-Check or more on its own, depending on the airline. They obviously have to be checked at the airport, so there's another line to wait in; have increased potential to be lost in transit, especially if you have connecting flights; and have to be claimed at the baggage claim, so there's another delay (usually more in the form of a sprawl than a line, but can still take 10-15 minutes or more).

I would not even consider a checking a bag unless I was going to be away from home for more than a week.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on October 31, 2023, 06:39:42 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 30, 2023, 10:58:28 PM
Quote from: bugo on October 30, 2023, 08:54:54 PM
I'm making assumptions.

Yes. Yes, you are. Other points addressed above.


Quote from: bugo on October 30, 2023, 08:54:54 PM
It's a lot of money to a broke person. You can't even seem to grasp this. Try to have some empathy.

I understand that $78 is a lot of money, but I do not understand the lack of contextual awareness on this issue. Flights cost a lot more than $78, so the $78 is only worth it if you're a semi-regular flyer. If you're not, then by all means, please don't throw $78 to the wind.

Now you're moving the goalposts.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on October 31, 2023, 08:44:02 PM
*kicks a ball through the goalposts*

*wins*
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Hunty2022 on October 31, 2023, 08:58:07 PM
- boy bands
- the month of September
- Halloween
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Duke87 on November 01, 2023, 02:12:04 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 31, 2023, 08:53:42 AM
Actually, I would be interested to know at what frequency of air travel people think TSA is worth it.

For one datapoint, my former employer who paid for my initial enrollment had a policy that they would reimburse for PreCheck if you had taken 5 business trips by plane in the last 365 days. Besides the enrollment fee they also happily paid for the cost of driving to and parking at JFK for my appointment, and let me do all this on the clock.

Had my employer not been so willing I likely would have been more stubborn about this and unwilling to spend my own money on it out of being cheap. But that was also based on my mindset then, which has since shifted.

My current employer will not reimburse for precheck under any circumstances, and I do not frequently fly for work anymore. Nonetheless, I still paid out of pocket to reup my Precheck last year because, well, I'm too used to having it now. And I have developed a habit of taking several plane trips a year for strictly personal purposes that I never had before I started flying for work, so I do still fly a decent amount.


Overall I would argue that if you reliably fly at least once a year, it is worth signing up for. However, I would also argue that once you have signed up letting it lapse is not an option unless you know for a fact you are never going to board a commercial airplane in the United States ever again. Once you experience PreCheck you can never go back to the pleb line.

Quote from: kphoger on October 31, 2023, 11:04:40 AM
Isn't it sexist to assume that women need more "pamper and primp" items for a trip?  I, for one, take showers much more frequently than my wife, therefore I use way more shampoo than she does.  I also use hair gel, while she doesn't use any product in her hair at all.  She does occasionally use a facial cleanser in the shower, but she doesn't on trips.

It's not a question of more, it's a question of demanding ones own specific product instead of just using whatever the hotel provides.

In my experience that is very much a feminine trait (naturally arises from long hair being higher maintenance), but yes it is a fair point that this is not an ironclad correlation.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on November 01, 2023, 03:27:54 AM
Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 10:36:30 PM
Quote from: Bruce on October 27, 2023, 03:56:26 PM
having to rearrange things so your car is less likely to be a target for random theft.
This is why I would never want to own a SUV, CUV, or pickup truck.  Nobody can see what's in your trunk unless it is open.

Coming from someone who has never owned anything without a hatchback, I would argue the uncertainty of the trunk's contents may actually encourage someone to break in. Unless you keep gobs of stuff in your car, hatchbacks clearly allow thieves to see into your car and can decide to break in or not. Trunks are just a giant question mark (kind of like "the box" from the "Homer Goes to College" episode from the Simpsons), almost encouraging thieves to break in just to find out. I never kept anything in my hatchback, so thieves could clearly see breaking in wasn't worth it.

I used to street park in a dangerous area (this stretch of S 4th in Tacoma, WA (https://maps.app.goo.gl/5seLtnqJvL9a5HSe7) -- my VW Golf is in the picture with the purple University of Washington license plate); most cars were broken into once along this stretch, but never mine. The stick-shift may have also been a deterrent, but the clear lack of any content worth stealing probably sealed the deal for most potential thieves.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Bruce on November 01, 2023, 04:14:52 AM
Adding to the earlier flytalk: some airports do offer visitors passes, but one has to pass through the normal security line anyway. I've used this to help relatives at the gate who would have a hard time with Sea-Tac, but wouldn't really want to do it that often.

Next week, I'll be making my way to Toronto and the itinerary includes a really dumb backtrack. I'll be traveling 3 hours from my home to Sea-Tac only to turn around and fly to Vancouver, since I really wanted to take a Dreamliner red-eye. Adding the flight and extra wait times at a US airport versus a Canadian one, it would have actually been faster to drive across the border (but then I'd have to pay to park for a week).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on November 01, 2023, 04:50:28 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 01, 2023, 03:27:54 AMComing from someone who has never owned anything without a hatchback, I would argue the uncertainty of the trunk's contents may actually encourage someone to break in. Unless you keep gobs of stuff in your car, hatchbacks clearly allow thieves to see into your car and can decide to break in or not. Trunks are just a giant question mark (kind of like "the box" from the "Homer Goes to College" episode from the Simpsons), almost encouraging thieves to break in just to find out. I never kept anything in my hatchback, so thieves could clearly see breaking in wasn't worth it.

The vast majority of my driving experience has been with cars with trunks and has occasionally involved parking in sketchy areas.  I've never had my trunk broken into speculatively.  On the other hand, I've had a thief do about $500 worth of damage to a car door to steal a $30 tripod from the back seat that was in plain view, in a leather-like case that caused it to appear more valuable than it was.

Quote from: jakeroot on November 01, 2023, 03:27:54 AMused to street park in a dangerous area (this stretch of S 4th in Tacoma, WA (https://maps.app.goo.gl/5seLtnqJvL9a5HSe7) -- my VW Golf is in the picture with the purple University of Washington license plate); most cars were broken into once along this stretch, but never mine. The stick-shift may have also been a deterrent, but the clear lack of any content worth stealing probably sealed the deal for most potential thieves.

Other variables might have been in play, e.g. cluttered interiors hinting at disregarded valuables.  I keep my car interior picked up:  no loose change, no sunglasses case, no nothing.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on November 01, 2023, 10:33:01 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 31, 2023, 06:27:56 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 31, 2023, 11:25:17 AM
My road trips over the years have generally ranged from 650 to 1100 miles one-way, and I never pack snacks or drinks in the car.  When it's lunch time, we stop for lunch.  If one of us gets thirsty, we pick something up at a gas station.

Wait a minute. On a trip of that length, packing your own drinks, snacks, and meals would be considerably cheaper than buying them, since you tend to pay a premium for restaurant service and convenience store items purchased ad hoc. With a family, I would think the difference would add up to, well... $78, at least, and possibly a lot more.

Just as one basic example, $5 for a 24-pack of water bottles to throw in the trunk would save about $20 vs. buying 24 individual water bottles at a low estimate of $1 each.

1.  It is a non-zero cost to buy the groceries with which to prepare a brown-bag lunch.  It is still usually cheaper to do this than to eat out while driving;  however, making a brown-bag lunch that's as filling as, say, a fast-food value menu combo can actually end up costing close to the same as that fast-food combo.

2.  We eat the same number of meals per day, no matter if we're at home or traveling.  If you fly in the morning and then eat lunch and supper at your destination, then that's no different than driving all day and eating lunch and supper on the road—assuming you're eating in restaurants either way.

3.  How much we drink is substantially lower on a road trip.  Part of it is on purpose (to avoid having to take potty breaks all the time), and part of it is the result of doing practically nothing that requires physical exertion all day.  Our family can drive all day without drinking anything between meals, and indeed we do it all the time.  Sometimes we'll pick up a couple of drinks in the late afternoon and share them between the five of us, or whatever.  Again, though (see 2. above), what are you comparing this to?  If you fly, you still have to drink something when you get there, and chances are you're not just filling cups out of the hotel bathroom sink.

Quote from: webny99 on October 31, 2023, 06:27:56 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 31, 2023, 11:25:17 AM
And entertainment options?  Like what?  I get just as bored on a two-hour flight as on a long road trip—more, in fact, because a roadgeek always has something to catch his eye down on the ground.  A book is about all I need in either case.

I don't know... books, CD's, headphones. Depends on one's preferences and if kids are involved.

Last time I flew, most people I saw on the plane had books and/or headphones.  They're pretty small and easy to pack.



Quote from: webny99 on October 31, 2023, 06:36:16 PM
Checked luggage is another whole subject. A single checked bag can cost half as much as TSA Pre-Check or more on its own, depending on the airline. They obviously have to be checked at the airport, so there's another line to wait in; have increased potential to be lost in transit, especially if you have connecting flights; and have to be claimed at the baggage claim, so there's another delay (usually more in the form of a sprawl than a line, but can still take 10-15 minutes or more).

I would not even consider a checking a bag unless I was going to be away from home for more than a week.

I also hate the prospect of my bag not making it to my destination with me.  This is especially true if I'll be driving from the destination airport to my true destination several hours away.  Last time I flew, the airport was 160 miles from my destination, so there's no way I'd want to be separated from my bag.  The last leg of my return trip was on an ERJ-145, and I didn't even want to have to gate-check my carry-on—just so I didn't have to wait for it upon arriving back to Wichita.  So I used a backpack small enough to count as a "personal item" and packed everything in that, for an international flight departing on a Thursday and returning on a Tuesday.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on November 01, 2023, 11:20:20 AM
The possibility of losing a checked bag is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on November 01, 2023, 11:26:25 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 01, 2023, 11:20:20 AM
The possibility of losing a checked bag is overrated.

Losing it overall, yes. I agree. But having it delayed to the point where it will seriously inconvenience you, less so. I was supposed to climb a mountain in Bolivia but had to cancel because my luggage got lost in transit and I didn't get it until 5 days later. All of my gear was in my backpack, and, being 6'4", couldn't possibly replace anything in a country where the average man is probably 5'7".
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on November 01, 2023, 12:27:41 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 01, 2023, 11:26:25 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 01, 2023, 11:20:20 AM
The possibility of losing a checked bag is overrated.

Losing it overall, yes. I agree. But having it delayed to the point where it will seriously inconvenience you, less so. I was supposed to climb a mountain in Bolivia but had to cancel because my luggage got lost in transit and I didn't get it until 5 days later. All of my gear was in my backpack, and, being 6'4", couldn't possibly replace anything in a country where the average man is probably 5'7".

Yes, definitely agreed that the risk of delays >> risk of total loss, especially when connecting flights are involved. And if it's a tight connection, luggage is often delayed to the next flight on that route - which could be a few hours, or a few days.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on November 01, 2023, 12:35:04 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 01, 2023, 12:27:41 PM
And if it's a tight connection, luggage is often delayed to the next flight on that route - which could be a few hours, or a few days.

There's an airport that's closer to where my final destination was last year.  It still would have had me connecting through DFW, but it has a grand total of one flight to/from DFW each week.  So I would have been back home in Wichita already by the time the next flight from DFW came around.

Funny enough, I met someone while I was there who used to work at that airport.  He seemed almost personally offended that I didn't use that airport instead.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: vdeane on November 01, 2023, 01:01:19 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 01, 2023, 03:27:54 AM
Quote from: vdeane on October 27, 2023, 10:36:30 PM
Quote from: Bruce on October 27, 2023, 03:56:26 PM
having to rearrange things so your car is less likely to be a target for random theft.
This is why I would never want to own a SUV, CUV, or pickup truck.  Nobody can see what's in your trunk unless it is open.

Coming from someone who has never owned anything without a hatchback, I would argue the uncertainty of the trunk's contents may actually encourage someone to break in. Unless you keep gobs of stuff in your car, hatchbacks clearly allow thieves to see into your car and can decide to break in or not. Trunks are just a giant question mark (kind of like "the box" from the "Homer Goes to College" episode from the Simpsons), almost encouraging thieves to break in just to find out. I never kept anything in my hatchback, so thieves could clearly see breaking in wasn't worth it.

I used to street park in a dangerous area (this stretch of S 4th in Tacoma, WA (https://maps.app.goo.gl/5seLtnqJvL9a5HSe7) -- my VW Golf is in the picture with the purple University of Washington license plate); most cars were broken into once along this stretch, but never mine. The stick-shift may have also been a deterrent, but the clear lack of any content worth stealing probably sealed the deal for most potential thieves.
I have heard of areas with enough thief activity where people actually leave their car unlocked just to keep people who might want to look though to see if there's anything worth stealing from breaking in, but I've never parked overnight in those spaces.  I haven't heard of any issues in my apartment's parking lot.  I don't keep much in the car day to day, anyways; the trunk is just jumper cables, my portable air compressor, and grocery bag (center console has my aux cable, car charger, and tissues; glove compartment is just car manual, insurance card, a cloth that can clean the windshield, and my tire pressure gauge; inside the car, the only thing that would be lying around would be snow brushes in the winter).  I was thinking more while roadtripping, where I'd have luggage, including my laptop (which I definitely don't want visible when I've stepped away from the car).  I imagine time is shorter and visibility higher during the day, so thieves probably want only what they can assuredly grab quickly and easily in such circumstances.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: J N Winkler on November 01, 2023, 01:43:19 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 01, 2023, 01:01:19 PMI have heard of areas with enough thief activity where people actually leave their car unlocked just to keep people who might want to look though to see if there's anything worth stealing from breaking in, but I've never parked overnight in those spaces.

I have an acquaintance who used to live in a subdivision adjacent to the highest-deprivation ZIP code in Wichita.  He would park his SUV in his driveway, unlocked, with coins in plain view in the console as a decoy, and regard the almost inevitable nightly theft of this loose change (generally by young children) as a sort of parking fee.  But I don't know what would have happened if he had locked it with nothing in plain view, or parked it in a garage or behind a fence, because if he ever tried any of those counterfactuals, he did not report the results.

The neighboring ZIP code in question does have numerous houses (though by no means enough to form a majority) with fenced front yards where the bulk of the driveway lies within the fence line.  That is an unambiguous sign of a neighborhood with an out-of-control theft and vandalism problem.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on November 01, 2023, 02:57:20 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 01, 2023, 01:01:19 PM
I was thinking more while roadtripping, where I'd have luggage, including my laptop (which I definitely don't want visible when I've stepped away from the car).  I imagine time is shorter and visibility higher during the day, so thieves probably want only what they can assuredly grab quickly and easily in such circumstances.

When road-tripping with a cargo box on top of the vehicle, I definitely feel better in a motel (where I can back right up to the door/window) than in a hotel (where I'm nowhere near the vehicle).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on November 01, 2023, 05:40:36 PM
Heh.  The only time I was on a road trip with a cargo box on the roof was when my family headed down to KY to my grandparents' place for Christmas.  Box held our presents.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on November 01, 2023, 06:55:13 PM
I've owned 2 hatchbacks and a station wagon, and they all had tonneau covers that hid any belongings in the luggage area.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Bruce on November 01, 2023, 07:03:42 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 01, 2023, 01:01:19 PM
I have heard of areas with enough thief activity where people actually leave their car unlocked just to keep people who might want to look though to see if there's anything worth stealing from breaking in, but I've never parked overnight in those spaces.

Heard about it happening in the Bay Area, but this isn't a common practice in Seattle. I've parked overnight in downtown without any issues, even with a relatively full trunk that is just hidden by a dark blanket.

There is a risk in keeping doors unlocked, though: you might return to the car to find someone sleeping inside or doing any number of other things...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: vdeane on November 01, 2023, 09:02:52 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 01, 2023, 01:43:19 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 01, 2023, 01:01:19 PMI have heard of areas with enough thief activity where people actually leave their car unlocked just to keep people who might want to look though to see if there's anything worth stealing from breaking in, but I've never parked overnight in those spaces.

I have an acquaintance who used to live in a subdivision adjacent to the highest-deprivation ZIP code in Wichita.  He would park his SUV in his driveway, unlocked, with coins in plain view in the console as a decoy, and regard the almost inevitable nightly theft of this loose change (generally by young children) as a sort of parking fee.  But I don't know what would have happened if he had locked it with nothing in plain view, or parked it in a garage or behind a fence, because if he ever tried any of those counterfactuals, he did not report the results.

The neighboring ZIP code in question does have numerous houses (though by no means enough to form a majority) with fenced front yards where the bulk of the driveway lies within the fence line.  That is an unambiguous sign of a neighborhood with an out-of-control theft and vandalism problem.
If it's like the stories of places I've read of where people leave their doors unlocked, probably have his window smashed in.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on November 01, 2023, 09:30:06 PM
Outside of leaving my doors unlocked in more rural areas of Hawaii, I've not worried much about parking my car.  I find generalizations about criminal activities in cities to be...overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on November 01, 2023, 10:12:12 PM
Quote from: bugo on November 01, 2023, 06:55:13 PM
I've owned 2 hatchbacks and a station wagon, and they all had tonneau covers that hid any belongings in the luggage area.

My hatchbacks have both had them, but I often kept them underneath the false floor because they'd get in the way of taller items. I think this is where I developed the "don't leave things out" habit because everything was in plain sight most of the time.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on November 03, 2023, 10:20:43 AM
Amusement parks.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on November 03, 2023, 10:40:05 AM
I guess hyperboles are overrated. They're exciting to compose, but seem to fall flat 9 times out of 10.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on November 03, 2023, 10:57:38 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on November 03, 2023, 10:20:43 AM
Amusement parks.
Disney, especially.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2023, 11:17:52 AM
I'm gonna sound like I'm twice my age, but Taylor Swift.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on November 03, 2023, 11:21:24 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2023, 11:17:52 AM
I'm gonna sound like I'm twice my age, but Taylor Swift.

There's no shame in being right.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on November 03, 2023, 02:03:03 PM
I would not recognize a Taylor Swift song if I heard it.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2023, 02:44:06 PM
I recognize Taylor Swift songs by their blandness.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on November 03, 2023, 07:49:18 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2023, 02:44:06 PM
I recognize Taylor Swift songs by their blandness.
Shake it off.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: gonealookin on November 03, 2023, 08:04:13 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 03, 2023, 11:21:24 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2023, 11:17:52 AM
I'm gonna sound like I'm twice my age, but Taylor Swift.

There's no shame in being right.

I dunno, I respect anyone who achieves that supreme megastar status.  If Taylor Swift is overrated, so was Michael Jackson.

Quote from: hbelkins on November 03, 2023, 02:03:03 PM
I would not recognize a Taylor Swift song if I heard it.

And I say that even though I wouldn't recognize one of her songs either (though I'm sure I've heard plenty of them).
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on November 03, 2023, 08:29:11 PM
I don't know there.  Micheal Jackson is one of the few singers who could do a range of multiple genres in a viable way.  At minimum I'd put him way ahead of Taylor Swift as a musical talent.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: vdeane on November 03, 2023, 08:42:12 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2023, 02:44:06 PM
I recognize Taylor Swift songs by their blandness.
I sense some bad blood here.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on November 03, 2023, 08:44:43 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on November 03, 2023, 08:04:13 PM
I dunno, I respect anyone who achieves that supreme megastar status.  If Taylor Swift is overrated, so was Michael Jackson.

I can tell the beats of Michael Jackson songs apart...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Big John on November 03, 2023, 08:51:25 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2023, 08:42:12 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2023, 02:44:06 PM
I recognize Taylor Swift songs by their blandness.
I sense some bad blood here.
I was thinking Neil Sedaka, but googling also shows Swift also has a song named Bad Blood.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2023, 09:15:55 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2023, 08:42:12 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2023, 02:44:06 PM
I recognize Taylor Swift songs by their blandness.
I sense some bad blood here.
Bad blood against her rabid fanbase who will doxx you if you dare say anything negative about her, yes.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on November 03, 2023, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 03, 2023, 07:49:18 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2023, 02:44:06 PM
I recognize Taylor Swift songs by their blandness.
Shake it off.

The first time I heard that song, I was in the men's room at Verizon Center. I had just reached the front of the line and was standing there doing what I came to do when I started hearing this girl's voice saying "shake it off" and I thought, gee, thanks for the advice.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jakeroot on November 03, 2023, 09:41:54 PM
Music should be off-limits. Every single generation thinks the generation of music following their preferred generation of music is of poor quality. There seems to be genuinely few people who enjoy all genres of music across multiple decades.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on November 03, 2023, 10:08:26 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 03, 2023, 09:41:54 PM
Music should be off-limits. Every single generation thinks the generation of music following their preferred generation of music is of poor quality. There seems to be genuinely few people who enjoy all genres of music across multiple decades.

I don't think the current generation of music is bad, I just don't have as much time to sample as much of it to form an opinion. And that's very typical of people once they hit 30 or so; your experiences are very much tied into the music you enjoyed and our memories attach and gravitate to what we know and enjoy.

Whereas probably 98-99% of folks my age write it all off, I sometimes hear things I like and stuff I don't care for (or think just sucks) but that hasn't really changed since I first got into music in the 1980s. There's always been crap music but honestly, forty-somethings aren't really going to relate much to a target audience of 13-25, which most popular music charts aim towards.

Full disclosure, The Weeknd and Ariana Grande aren't really terrible but I'm not going to proselytize their work...
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: thspfc on November 03, 2023, 10:15:42 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 03, 2023, 09:41:54 PM
Music should be off-limits. Every single generation thinks the generation of music following their preferred generation of music is of poor quality. There seems to be genuinely few people who enjoy all genres of music across multiple decades.
You don't even have to enjoy or "appreciate" different kinds of music. Simply understanding that it's a matter of opinion is sufficently nuanced and yet 90% of people fail to meet that bar. That doesn't mean you can't voice your opinion, but you also can't convey it like it's objective.

Quote from: hbelkins on November 03, 2023, 02:03:03 PM
I would not recognize a Taylor Swift song if I heard it.
Ok . . . ? Congradulations?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on November 03, 2023, 10:59:53 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2023, 09:15:55 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2023, 08:42:12 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2023, 02:44:06 PM
I recognize Taylor Swift songs by their blandness.
I sense some bad blood here.
Bad blood against her rabid fanbase who will doxx you if you dare say anything negative about her, yes.

Bad Blood, also a Swift song. That one took me a minute.  :spin:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on November 03, 2023, 11:10:10 PM
Teresa Brewer, "Put Another Nickel In."  Taylor Swift of her time.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: LilianaUwU on November 03, 2023, 11:14:42 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 03, 2023, 09:41:54 PM
Music should be off-limits. Every single generation thinks the generation of music following their preferred generation of music is of poor quality. There seems to be genuinely few people who enjoy all genres of music across multiple decades.
One of my favorite songs of all time is this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV9Ing4ITWY), so please disregard me already.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on November 03, 2023, 11:18:08 PM
Regardless if you like Taylor's music, one thing is certain - she is an awesome business woman. No one becomes a billionaire by accident.

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on November 03, 2023, 11:39:07 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 03, 2023, 11:18:08 PM
Regardless if you like Taylor's music, one thing is certain - she is an awesome business woman. No one becomes a billionaire by accident.
"Senators and presidents don't have men killed."

"Oh.  Who's being naive, Kay?"
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on November 05, 2023, 08:32:11 AM
Gone With the Wind
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Big John on November 05, 2023, 08:49:08 AM
It's a Wonderful Life
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on November 05, 2023, 09:42:34 AM
Citizen Kane
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: LilianaUwU on November 05, 2023, 09:48:07 AM
The Godfather
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on November 05, 2023, 09:50:52 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 05, 2023, 09:48:07 AM
The Godfather
We were doing so well until you were wrong.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: LilianaUwU on November 05, 2023, 09:55:10 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2023, 09:50:52 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 05, 2023, 09:48:07 AM
The Godfather
We were doing so well until you were wrong.
I thought we were just naming popular movies at that point.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on November 05, 2023, 10:04:37 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 05, 2023, 09:55:10 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2023, 09:50:52 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on November 05, 2023, 09:48:07 AM
The Godfather
We were doing so well until you were wrong.
I thought we were just naming popular movies at that point.
Nice recovery.

Casablanca (though I haven't tried to watch it in 25 years, maybe it's improved in my mind)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on November 06, 2023, 10:35:48 AM
TV shows or movies that you have fond memories of from your childhood.  Almost without fail, if you go back and watch them now, you wonder how you ever thought they were so great.

Prime example for me:  the movie Milo and Otis

Honorable mention:  the series Gilligan's Island
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on November 06, 2023, 10:38:48 AM
Seinfeld aged well, a lot of my favorite 80s cartoons are only good now because of camp factor. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on November 06, 2023, 10:46:57 AM
Taxi is still goin strong on Pluto TV. That was great now as it was then.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on November 06, 2023, 11:38:08 AM
Many of the 1950s and 1960s era 'adult' westerns aged very well and are still quite watchable and entertaining if you can find them.

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on November 06, 2023, 11:39:55 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 06, 2023, 10:35:48 AM
TV shows or movies that you have fond memories of from your childhood.  Almost without fail, if you go back and watch them now, you wonder how you ever thought they were so great.

Prime example for me:  the movie Milo and Otis

Honorable mention:  the series Gilligan's Island
I didn't think Gilligan's Island was that funny when I was a kid.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on November 06, 2023, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 06, 2023, 10:38:48 AM
Seinfeld aged well, a lot of my favorite 80s cartoons are only good now because of camp factor. 

Quote from: roadman65 on November 06, 2023, 10:46:57 AM
Taxi is still goin strong on Pluto TV. That was great now as it was then.

Quote from: mgk920 on November 06, 2023, 11:38:08 AM
Many of the 1950s and 1960s era 'adult' westerns aged very well and are still quite watchable and entertaining if you can find them.

I have fond memories of these, but not from early childhood.  Rather, I remember them from when I was a teenager.  Sorry, perhaps I should have been more specific in that I meant early childhood.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on November 06, 2023, 02:19:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 06, 2023, 10:38:48 AM
Seinfeld aged well, a lot of my favorite 80s cartoons are only good now because of camp factor. 

I like Curb Your Enthusiasm better because Larry David is hilarious.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on November 06, 2023, 02:28:58 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 06, 2023, 10:35:48 AM
TV shows or movies that you have fond memories of from your childhood.  Almost without fail, if you go back and watch them now, you wonder how you ever thought they were so great.

Prime example for me:  the movie Milo and Otis

Honorable mention:  the series Gilligan's Island

Also:  Fraggle Rock is nowhere near as good as I remember it being.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on November 06, 2023, 03:31:06 PM
^^^

The Fraggles can do no wrong...

Quote from: bugo on November 06, 2023, 02:19:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 06, 2023, 10:38:48 AM
Seinfeld aged well, a lot of my favorite 80s cartoons are only good now because of camp factor. 

I like Curb Your Enthusiasm better because Larry David is hilarious.

George, Kramer and the huge background cast of notable secondary characters is what does it for me with Seinfeld. 
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bugo on November 06, 2023, 03:48:29 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 06, 2023, 03:31:06 PM
Quote from: bugo on November 06, 2023, 02:19:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 06, 2023, 10:38:48 AM
Seinfeld aged well, a lot of my favorite 80s cartoons are only good now because of camp factor. 
I like Curb Your Enthusiasm better because Larry David is hilarious.
George, Kramer and the huge background cast of notable secondary characters is what does it for me with Seinfeld. 

One thing I like about Curb Your Enthusiasm is the cast. Much of the dialogue is ad-libbed, and they cast has incredible chemistry. The characters might not be quite as eccentric as the Seinfeld cast, but they're just as strong in their own ways.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: CtrlAltDel on November 06, 2023, 04:10:20 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 06, 2023, 10:35:48 AM

Honorable mention:  the series Gilligan's Island

Those poor people . . .
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on November 06, 2023, 04:27:02 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 06, 2023, 11:39:55 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 06, 2023, 10:35:48 AM
TV shows or movies that you have fond memories of from your childhood.  Almost without fail, if you go back and watch them now, you wonder how you ever thought they were so great.

Prime example for me:  the movie Milo and Otis

Honorable mention:  the series Gilligan's Island
I didn't think Gilligan's Island was that funny when I was a kid.

No they exaggerated way too much. Like Gilligan's naive nature when a helicopter came and landed on the island instead of a boat to pick up that guy who was part of a radio contest to see if he could live on a deserted island for days. Of course telling the world the castaways was alive would end his claim for the big prize that they were offering him, so he didn't tell anyone.

When the castaways all found out, they tried to intercept the boat that they thought would pick up the contest participant. However a chopper came and Gilligan was the only one other than the contestant to actually see it where Gilligan had no reaction to it as per instructions the Skipper told him: "say something when you see a boat come ashore." Of course any human, especially Gilligan, should have common sense enough to know that helicopter was the means to get a crooked radio contestant off the island.

Basically Gilligan's naiveitivity was overrated and it wasn't all that funny at times.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on November 06, 2023, 05:47:15 PM
I can still sing, "Neither a borrower nor a lender be ..."

We watched Gilligan every afternoon after school. It got to be a contest to see who could identify the episode first.

And did every episode start with Gilligan yelling, "Skipper!" or the Skipper yelling, "Gilligan!"?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on November 06, 2023, 06:14:53 PM
Another note of interest. Gilligan is in the same category as Quincy and McGyver. All are called by their surnames and no reference to their first names, although McGyver was later revealed to be Angus like later Seinfeld revealed Kramer to be Cosmo.

However, like Jack Klugmans ME character, people treated his last name as his first.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on November 06, 2023, 06:33:32 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 06, 2023, 06:14:53 PM
Another note of interest. Gilligan is in the same category as Quincy and McGyver. All are called by their surnames and no reference to their first names, although McGyver was later revealed to be Angus like later Seinfeld revealed Kramer to be Cosmo.

However, like Jack Klugmans ME character, people treated his last name as his first.

Pretty sure Mrs. Howell called her husband Thurston, at least some of the time.

The Professor didn't have a last name.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on November 06, 2023, 06:39:55 PM
Quote from: kkt on November 06, 2023, 06:33:32 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 06, 2023, 06:14:53 PM
Another note of interest. Gilligan is in the same category as Quincy and McGyver. All are called by their surnames and no reference to their first names, although McGyver was later revealed to be Angus like later Seinfeld revealed Kramer to be Cosmo.

However, like Jack Klugmans ME character, people treated his last name as his first.

Pretty sure Mrs. Howell called her husband Thurston, at least some of the time.

The Professor didn't have a last name.


Yes it was Hinkley. Plus the Skipper was Jonas Grumsby. Both were mentioned in some episodes. Also Lovey Howell was actually Eunice Howell and Maryann was Maryann Summers revealed in an episode.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on November 06, 2023, 06:58:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 06, 2023, 10:35:48 AM
TV shows or movies that you have fond memories of from your childhood.  Almost without fail, if you go back and watch them now, you wonder how you ever thought they were so great.

Prime example for me:  the movie Milo and Otis

Honorable mention:  the series Gilligan's Island

Rocko's Modern Life was this for me once I was old enough to understand the entendres. Not particularly amusing and the show was just not interesting.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: dlsterner on November 06, 2023, 11:42:03 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 06, 2023, 06:39:55 PM
Quote from: kkt on November 06, 2023, 06:33:32 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 06, 2023, 06:14:53 PM
Another note of interest. Gilligan is in the same category as Quincy and McGyver. All are called by their surnames and no reference to their first names, although McGyver was later revealed to be Angus like later Seinfeld revealed Kramer to be Cosmo.

However, like Jack Klugmans ME character, people treated his last name as his first.

Pretty sure Mrs. Howell called her husband Thurston, at least some of the time.

The Professor didn't have a last name.


Yes it was Hinkley. Plus the Skipper was Jonas Grumsby. Both were mentioned in some episodes. Also Lovey Howell was actually Eunice Howell and Maryann was Maryann Summers revealed in an episode.

The Professor also has a first name - Roy.  I've also hear stories (not sure if true or not) that if a first name were to be revealed for Gilligan, it would be Willie.  But that never happened in any episode.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on November 07, 2023, 09:19:08 AM
Quote from: kkt on November 06, 2023, 06:33:32 PM
Pretty sure Mrs. Howell called her husband Thurston, at least some of the time.

Yep.  One of our sons has the unusual middle name of Torsten.  When people ask about it, I explain that it's the Norse origin of the more-common names Dustin and Thurston.  If they then seem puzzled about the name Thurston, I refer them to Gilligan's Island and Thurston Howell III.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: wanderer2575 on November 07, 2023, 09:58:04 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 06, 2023, 06:14:53 PM
Another note of interest. Gilligan is in the same category as Quincy and McGyver. All are called by their surnames and no reference to their first names, although McGyver was later revealed to be Angus like later Seinfeld revealed Kramer to be Cosmo.

However, like Jack Klugmans ME character, people treated his last name as his first.

The one I find most unusual is Philip K. Fish (portrayed by Abe Vigoda) on Barney Miller.  Everyone, including his wife, called him Fish.  I can see his coworkers doing that.  But his wife?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on November 07, 2023, 10:27:09 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on November 07, 2023, 09:58:04 AM
The one I find most unusual is Philip K. Fish (portrayed by Abe Vigoda) on Barney Miller.  Everyone, including his wife, called him Fish.  I can see his coworkers doing that.  But his wife?

Heck, I rarely ever call my wife by her own first name!  It's almost always Sweetie, or Honey, or whatever.  (I don't call her Whatever.)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on November 07, 2023, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 07, 2023, 10:27:09 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on November 07, 2023, 09:58:04 AM
The one I find most unusual is Philip K. Fish (portrayed by Abe Vigoda) on Barney Miller.  Everyone, including his wife, called him Fish.  I can see his coworkers doing that.  But his wife?

Heck, I rarely ever call my wife by her own first name!  It's almost always Sweetie, or Honey, or whatever.  (I don't call her Whatever.)

That's thoughtful of you to use a common noun when calling her whatever.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on November 07, 2023, 11:38:00 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on November 07, 2023, 09:58:04 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 06, 2023, 06:14:53 PM
Another note of interest. Gilligan is in the same category as Quincy and McGyver. All are called by their surnames and no reference to their first names, although McGyver was later revealed to be Angus like later Seinfeld revealed Kramer to be Cosmo.

However, like Jack Klugmans ME character, people treated his last name as his first.

The one I find most unusual is Philip K. Fish (portrayed by Abe Vigoda) on Barney Miller.  Everyone, including his wife, called him Fish.  I can see his coworkers doing that.  But his wife?
"The Fish TV show
You know, with Abe Vigoda..."

(Fish was a spinoff...)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on November 07, 2023, 02:14:47 PM
Hmm, I always thought Gilligan was his first name.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on January 04, 2024, 06:48:27 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:43:58 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2022, 12:34:43 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:19:30 PM
You do realize Christmas technically goes past the 25th?  My wife lost her shit one year when I started taking decorations down before the Epiphany. 

I saw a discussion earlier this month on another forum about when the Christmas season begins. My response: December 25. The four weeks prior that day are the Advent season.

Right, and to someone like my wife who also happens to be traditionally Catholic that actually means something to her.

Regarding MMM's statement about the emergency of decorations.  The change over usually occurs right as I'm taking Halloween decor down.  It's convenient for me to put the Christmas stuff up as the Halloween stuff goes back into storage, why work two days outside when I do everything at once?  Also, putting up the Christmas decor makes my wife happy given she enjoys the season.  This might actually shock the likes of MMM, but I actually do enjoy putting effort into things I know will make my wife happy. 

Ugh...  Hopefully this doesn't come to any ugliness:

My wife posted on Facebook the other day about how we celebrate Epiphany on January 6.  One of her customers who is very proudly Roman Catholic commented (maybe a little snarkily) that the Epiphany of the Lord is on January 7, not January 6.  Apparently, going by some cursory research I've just done, this goes back to 1970, when Latin Rite Catholics moved the Solemnity of the Epiphany of the Lord (the liturgical feast day) to the first Sunday after January 1.  Last year that put the Solemnity on January 2, this year on January 7.

We're not Catholics of any variety.  Most people in our congregation don't even know what Epiphany is to begin with.  I just choose to observe all twelve days and then Epiphany on day thirteen.

So, out of curiosity, when does your wife think it's OK to take down the decorations?  January 6, or the first Sunday after January 1?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 04, 2024, 06:52:25 PM
Pentatonix is overrated.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: SectorZ on January 04, 2024, 07:07:49 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 04, 2024, 06:52:25 PM
Pentatonix is overrated.

I'm impressed by any musical act that can rip off both Jerry Lee Lewis and Led Zeppelin in a manner of seconds in a song not even a minute long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrruJptmbKU
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kkt on January 04, 2024, 07:27:01 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 04, 2024, 06:48:27 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:43:58 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 27, 2022, 12:34:43 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2022, 12:19:30 PM
You do realize Christmas technically goes past the 25th?  My wife lost her shit one year when I started taking decorations down before the Epiphany. 

I saw a discussion earlier this month on another forum about when the Christmas season begins. My response: December 25. The four weeks prior that day are the Advent season.

Right, and to someone like my wife who also happens to be traditionally Catholic that actually means something to her.

Regarding MMM's statement about the emergency of decorations.  The change over usually occurs right as I'm taking Halloween decor down.  It's convenient for me to put the Christmas stuff up as the Halloween stuff goes back into storage, why work two days outside when I do everything at once?  Also, putting up the Christmas decor makes my wife happy given she enjoys the season.  This might actually shock the likes of MMM, but I actually do enjoy putting effort into things I know will make my wife happy. 

Ugh...  Hopefully this doesn't come to any ugliness:

My wife posted on Facebook the other day about how we celebrate Epiphany on January 6.  One of her customers who is very proudly Roman Catholic commented (maybe a little snarkily) that the Epiphany of the Lord is on January 7, not January 6.  Apparently, going by some cursory research I've just done, this goes back to 1970, when Latin Rite Catholics moved the Solemnity of the Epiphany of the Lord (the liturgical feast day) to the first Sunday after January 1.  Last year that put the Solemnity on January 2, this year on January 7.

We're not Catholics of any variety.  Most people in our congregation don't even know what Epiphany is to begin with.  I just choose to observe all twelve days and then Epiphany on day thirteen.

So, out of curiosity, when does your wife think it's OK to take down the decorations?  January 6, or the first Sunday after January 1?

When I was a kid, in my family and my grandparents' family it was January 6.  But this year I wanted the help of my child who's going back to college this weekend, so we're taking them down early.

We follow some of the Christian traditions because they're pretty, not because we are true believers.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on January 04, 2024, 08:57:41 PM
Most years, we leave the Christmas stuff up and lit through and including January 6, the traditional date of the Epiphany (even though on the Catholic liturgical calendar in the US it seldom falls on that date now, as kphoger noted—BTW, I'm Catholic and my wife is Episcopalian). We may not take it down immediately—usually that happens when we have time, which is usually over Martin Luther King weekend—but it is not lit after January 6. The tree is on a timer. Sometimes we will unplug it early if we go out of town for a week, but it seldom gets taken down before MLK weekend.

We didn't put up any outside lights this year because we simply didn't get around to it. Our community rules say that any outdoor holiday decorations must be taken down within two weeks after said holiday except that outdoor "December holiday decorations" must be taken down by January 15. I'm always tempted to leave the outdoor Christmas lights up, and lit, through January 21 and then, if they complain, tell them that the lights are for Orthodox Christmas, which is on January 7, and therefore the lights are within the rules. But I've never bothered.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: bing101 on January 05, 2024, 12:49:04 AM
Anyplace that has more tourists than locals is a warning sign that it's over rated as seen here.

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: GaryV on January 05, 2024, 09:04:42 AM
"Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on January 05, 2024, 11:23:09 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 04, 2024, 08:57:41 PM
Our community rules say that any outdoor holiday decorations must be taken down within two weeks after said holiday except that outdoor "December holiday decorations" must be taken down by January 15. I'm always tempted to leave the outdoor Christmas lights up, and lit, through January 21 and then, if they complain, tell them that the lights are for Orthodox Christmas, which is on January 7, and therefore the lights are within the rules. But I've never bothered.

Leave them up till January 29, and just tell the HOA that they're Martin Luther King Jr Day lights.  Prove me wrong!  :awesomeface:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: 1995hoo on January 05, 2024, 01:43:42 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2024, 11:23:09 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 04, 2024, 08:57:41 PM
Our community rules say that any outdoor holiday decorations must be taken down within two weeks after said holiday except that outdoor "December holiday decorations" must be taken down by January 15. I'm always tempted to leave the outdoor Christmas lights up, and lit, through January 21 and then, if they complain, tell them that the lights are for Orthodox Christmas, which is on January 7, and therefore the lights are within the rules. But I've never bothered.

Leave them up till January 29, and just tell the HOA that they're Martin Luther King Jr Day lights.  Prove me wrong!  :awesomeface:

I'm tempted to make a joke about how the outside lights are white lights, but that might be in poor taste.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on January 05, 2024, 01:49:03 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 05, 2024, 01:43:42 PM
I'm tempted to make a joke about how the outside lights are white lights, but that might be in poor taste.

At least they aren't colored.

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/g3LLiQe9k3pIA6m5uE/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952snbg9tmqmzit1t5cnks1k47ihgrvhz6nudgjg550&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif)
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 15, 2024, 01:02:41 AM
The Parallax View
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 19, 2024, 06:31:31 PM
19th-Century American rugged individualism.
Title: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Pete from Boston on January 19, 2024, 07:20:28 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 04, 2024, 08:57:41 PM
Most years, we leave the Christmas stuff up and lit through and including January 6, the traditional date of the Epiphany (even though on the Catholic liturgical calendar in the US it seldom falls on that date now, as kphoger noted—BTW, I'm Catholic and my wife is Episcopalian). We may not take it down immediately—usually that happens when we have time, which is usually over Martin Luther King weekend—but it is not lit after January 6. The tree is on a timer. Sometimes we will unplug it early if we go out of town for a week, but it seldom gets taken down before MLK weekend.

We didn't put up any outside lights this year because we simply didn't get around to it. Our community rules say that any outdoor holiday decorations must be taken down within two weeks after said holiday except that outdoor "December holiday decorations" must be taken down by January 15. I'm always tempted to leave the outdoor Christmas lights up, and lit, through January 21 and then, if they complain, tell them that the lights are for Orthodox Christmas, which is on January 7, and therefore the lights are within the rules. But I've never bothered.
There are Christian denominations that celebrate on January 6th and some on the 7th, and there are communities that celebrate on the 19th (the Julian Calendar date of the Gregorian January 6th). So if the Feast of the Epiphany is an acceptable end date, you're covered until January 31st.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on January 19, 2024, 07:22:34 PM
Governors and Presidents declaring a State of Emergency
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: hbelkins on January 19, 2024, 08:56:45 PM
The moderation practices on this forum.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on January 19, 2024, 09:39:58 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 19, 2024, 07:22:34 PM
Governors and Presidents declaring a State of Emergency
I dunno.  It does enable emergency funding.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on January 20, 2024, 05:19:46 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 19, 2024, 08:56:45 PM
The moderation practices on this forum.

Complaining about the moderation practices on this forum.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on January 23, 2024, 12:26:16 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 19, 2024, 09:39:58 PM

Quote from: kphoger on January 19, 2024, 07:22:34 PM
Governors and Presidents declaring a State of Emergency

I dunno.  It does enable emergency funding.

Sure.  But it seems like there's a news story every other week about someone declaring a State of Emergency.  I guess the need to report it is overrated by the media.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Scott5114 on January 23, 2024, 09:59:31 PM
As of 2 months ago, there were 42 different ongoing national emergencies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQKqCkSb224
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on January 24, 2024, 06:39:22 AM
The Great Gig in the Sky - we get it already, next track please
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on January 31, 2024, 01:47:48 PM
candy canes
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on January 31, 2024, 03:34:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 31, 2024, 01:47:48 PM
candy canes

Agreed. There are better mint candies and ones that don't get your chin sticky.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: formulanone on January 31, 2024, 03:35:58 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 31, 2024, 03:34:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 31, 2024, 01:47:48 PM
candy canes

Agreed. There are better mint candies and ones that don't get your chin sticky.

But it's the only candy you can fashion into a shiv.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on January 31, 2024, 03:38:01 PM
Quote from: formulanone on January 31, 2024, 03:35:58 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 31, 2024, 03:34:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 31, 2024, 01:47:48 PM
candy canes

Agreed. There are better mint candies and ones that don't get your chin sticky.

But it's the only candy you can fashion into a shiv.

I can whittle pretty well. Stale Sour Patch Kid? Shiv.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on January 31, 2024, 04:02:25 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 31, 2024, 03:38:01 PM

Quote from: formulanone on January 31, 2024, 03:35:58 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 31, 2024, 03:34:16 PM

Quote from: kphoger on January 31, 2024, 01:47:48 PM
candy canes

Agreed. There are better mint candies and ones that don't get your chin sticky.

But it's the only candy you can fashion into a shiv.

I can whittle pretty well. Stale Sour Patch Kid? Shiv.

Butterfinger?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: mgk920 on January 31, 2024, 05:38:39 PM
whistlepops!

:ded:

Mike
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: JayhawkCO on February 02, 2024, 12:39:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 31, 2024, 04:02:25 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 31, 2024, 03:38:01 PM

Quote from: formulanone on January 31, 2024, 03:35:58 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 31, 2024, 03:34:16 PM

Quote from: kphoger on January 31, 2024, 01:47:48 PM
candy canes

Agreed. There are better mint candies and ones that don't get your chin sticky.

But it's the only candy you can fashion into a shiv.

I can whittle pretty well. Stale Sour Patch Kid? Shiv.

Butterfinger?

Maybe Bart did that in one of the commercials.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on February 10, 2024, 09:37:39 AM
Laura Dern
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2024, 12:04:45 PM
Been watching Episode 8 of Star Wars or Jurassic Park?
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on February 13, 2024, 04:15:40 PM
Minor things that bother us
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on February 16, 2024, 06:51:23 PM
The blue tooth connection to your car from your phone. I think the phone shouldn't be used while driving.  Plus you have your favorite song playing and all of a sudden it interrupts for a sales person you don't want.

Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: jeffandnicole on February 16, 2024, 06:56:08 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 16, 2024, 06:51:23 PM
The blue tooth connection to your car from your phone. I think the phone shouldn't be used while driving.  Plus you have your favorite song playing and all of a sudden it interrupts for a sales person you don't want.



Disagree. People that use their phones while driving will do so with whatever they have. Bluetooth makes it a lot easier to do so. Removing Bluetooth options won't remove their ability to use the phone.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on February 16, 2024, 07:07:31 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 16, 2024, 06:51:23 PM
The blue tooth connection to your car from your phone. I think the phone shouldn't be used while driving.  Plus you have your favorite song playing and all of a sudden it interrupts for a sales person you don't want.
Nah.  I like playing the music I choose through my car's system.  The only commercials I hear are inbetween YouTube videos when I listen to them that way.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on February 19, 2024, 02:14:56 PM
1.  Texas-shaped pancakes at hotels in Texas.  They all seem to think it's something special, even though practically every hotel there has them.

2.  Pancakes in general.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on February 19, 2024, 02:55:35 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 19, 2024, 02:14:56 PM
2.  Pancakes in general.

I agree. Waffles are better, especially for texture, usually for taste too.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on February 19, 2024, 03:02:57 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 19, 2024, 02:55:35 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 19, 2024, 02:14:56 PM
2.  Pancakes in general.

I agree. Waffles are better, especially for texture, usually for taste too.
I don't see the need for the decision to be exclusive.  I like and welcome both or either.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: webny99 on February 19, 2024, 03:51:33 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 19, 2024, 03:02:57 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 19, 2024, 02:55:35 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 19, 2024, 02:14:56 PM
2.  Pancakes in general.

I agree. Waffles are better, especially for texture, usually for taste too.
I don't see the need for the decision to be exclusive.  I like and welcome both or either.

They both have their place, but if I get to choose, waffles >>>
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on February 19, 2024, 04:16:20 PM
Jack Kerouac's On the Road
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Takumi on February 19, 2024, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 19, 2024, 03:02:57 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 19, 2024, 02:55:35 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 19, 2024, 02:14:56 PM
2.  Pancakes in general.

I agree. Waffles are better, especially for texture, usually for taste too.
I don't see the need for the decision to be exclusive.  I like and welcome both or either.

Agreed. Although I prefer South African pannekoek over either of those.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Big John on February 19, 2024, 05:36:48 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 19, 2024, 03:51:33 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 19, 2024, 03:02:57 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 19, 2024, 02:55:35 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 19, 2024, 02:14:56 PM
2.  Pancakes in general.

I agree. Waffles are better, especially for texture, usually for taste too.
I don't see the need for the decision to be exclusive.  I like and welcome both or either.

They both have their place, but if I get to choose, waffles >>>
No waffling on this! :bigass:
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: roadman65 on February 19, 2024, 10:15:16 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 19, 2024, 03:51:33 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 19, 2024, 03:02:57 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 19, 2024, 02:55:35 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 19, 2024, 02:14:56 PM
2.  Pancakes in general.

I agree. Waffles are better, especially for texture, usually for taste too.
I don't see the need for the decision to be exclusive.  I like and welcome both or either.

They both have their place, but if I get to choose, waffles >>>

You'll love Comfort Inn 😂
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: Rothman on February 24, 2024, 12:16:09 AM
Oscar nominees.
Title: Re: __________ is/are overrated.
Post by: kphoger on March 12, 2024, 03:26:11 PM
For playing guitar, the keys of E and A are overrated.

In the key of E, the V chord is not easy to play, generally requiring a barre.  Even the typical fingering for the V7 chord requires all four fingers and avoiding the low E string.  Furthermore, the vi chord, which is a common substitution for the I chord, is also awkward to play, generally requiring a barre.  Likewise the ii chord.

In the key of A, the iv chord is likewise a little awkward to play, generally requiring a barre.  The ii chord is a little easier to handle in A than in E, but is still a bit awkward.

And yet, for some reason, these two keys are commonly held up as some of the best for playing guitar.  Maybe it's because I'm used to chords instead of soloing, but give me G or C any day over E or A.
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