Cities/towns that's lost their charm

[abefroman329]

Then again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing?  I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?

Compared to what?  I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like.  Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast.  I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive.  That leaves Oregon and Washington State and...what do they offer that Illinois doesn't?

[HighwayStar]

Then again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing?  I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?

Compared to what?  I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like.  Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast.  I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive.  That leaves Oregon and Washington State and...what do they offer that Illinois doesn't?

governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like.

This I find an odd objection. Do you object to the Federal Government limiting what laws states can enact then? Because there is a lot of that going on.

Also, a patchwork of different laws where every little burg or town becomes its own fiefdom is both inconvenient and ripe for considerable abuse no matter what side of the fence you are on.

[abefroman329]

Do you object to the Federal Government limiting what laws states can enact then?

No, because that isn't actually happening.

Because there is a lot of that going on.

No, there isn't.

Also, a patchwork of different laws where every little burg or town becomes its own fiefdom is both inconvenient and ripe for considerable abuse no matter what side of the fence you are on.

So...we need a stronger federal government, because a a patchwork of different laws where every little state becomes its own fiefdom is both inconvenient and ripe for considerable abuse no matter what side of the fence you are on?

[kphoger]

Let's not get the thread locked, kids.

[Max Rockatansky]

Then again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing?  I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?

Compared to what?  I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like.  Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast.  I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive.  That leaves Oregon and Washington State and...what do they offer that Illinois doesn't?

A main driver for me leaving the Midwest was the collapsing economic base, not so much people politics.  I'm a pretty middle of the road person with politics.  Generally political ideologies don't really sway where I move over things like economic and recreational opportunities.  In Michigan during the late 1990s/early 2000s in particular, what future was there for someone getting out of high school?  I didn't see one, so I left.  Given the state of life I see a lot of my classmates in, I don't see what value the area has for me personally even now.  My immediate family mostly left in the years after I did, so there isn't even really a family reason to go back anymore. 

But then again, that's just my subjective measure versus yours.  It would be fair to say the primary reason I'm back on the West Coast to begin with was due to how bored I was in Florida.  I suspect there will come a time in the future where I'll want to move somewhere else also.  If I had to bet I suspect population growth around Fresno and the Central Valley in the next two decades will be a motivating factor to move elsewhere.  I've found my tolerance for large population centers on a downhill slide since I lived in Chicago.  I guess you could say, for me the people there are the less "charm"  a place has.

But to answer your question the outdoor recreational opportunities in Oregon and Washington are far more diverse than Illinois.  To me that matters, to others it might not. 

[hotdogPi]

Then again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing?  I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?

Compared to what?  I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like.  Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast.  I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive.  That leaves Oregon and Washington State and...what do they offer that Illinois doesn't?

Colorado?

[Rothman]

Then again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing?  I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?

Compared to what?  I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like.  Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast.  I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive.  That leaves Oregon and Washington State and...what do they offer that Illinois doesn't?

That's pretty drastic judgment.

[abefroman329]

In Michigan during the late 1990s/early 2000s in particular, what future was there for someone getting out of high school?  I didn't see one, so I left.  Given the state of life I see a lot of my classmates in, I don't see what value the area has for me personally even now.

Replace "Michigan" with "Georgia" and that's been my experience.  But, as you say:

But then again, that's just my subjective measure versus yours.

[abefroman329]

But to answer your question the outdoor recreational opportunities in Oregon and Washington are far more diverse than Illinois.  To me that matters, to others it might not.

Oh, yes, that's absolutely true - this is the only place I've lived where I would have to drive several hours to see something resembling a mountain, and that is very odd to me, having spent 25 years in places that were very close to the Appalachian Mountains.

[abefroman329]

Then again, maybe it's just the Detroit and Chicago years in my youth that making the prospect of going back vexing?  I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the Midwest, but what it that they supposedly offer now that wasn't already gone by the late 1990s?

Compared to what?  I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like.  Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast.  I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive.  That leaves Oregon and Washington State and...what do they offer that Illinois doesn't?

Colorado?

I don't know very much about it, but you are correct that I should not have overlooked it.

[Max Rockatansky]

In Michigan during the late 1990s/early 2000s in particular, what future was there for someone getting out of high school?  I didn't see one, so I left.  Given the state of life I see a lot of my classmates in, I don't see what value the area has for me personally even now.

Replace "Michigan" with "Georgia" and that's been my experience.  But, as you say:

But then again, that's just my subjective measure versus yours.

I wouldn't disagree with that assessment of Georgia.  For me personally I didn't see much additional value it had over for Florida for the subjective reasons I listed above. 

Interestingly I did have a transfer to Charleston lined up from Florida in 2015.  I had to back out of it due to a parent in Florida becoming sick which ultimately led to my California transfer in 2016.  I was intrigued by the Carolinas having briefly lived in Asheville a couple summers as part of a summer job my Dad set up.

[abefroman329]

I wouldn't disagree with that assessment of Georgia.

And I can certainly see why MI would be unappealing.  But, for me, it wasn't the lack of opportunities in GA, it was the lack of opportunities that appealed to me.

Interestingly I did have a transfer to Charleston lined up from Florida in 2015.  I had to back out of it due to a parent in Florida becoming sick which ultimately led to my California transfer in 2016.  I was intrigued by the Carolinas having briefly lived in Asheville a couple summers as part of a summer job my Dad set up.

Charleston and Asheville are both gorgeous towns.  Until recently, I would have been onboard with living in a blue part of a red state, but, not now.

[Max Rockatansky]

I wouldn't disagree with that assessment of Georgia.

And I can certainly see why MI would be unappealing.  But, for me, it wasn't the lack of opportunities in GA, it was the lack of opportunities that appealed to me.

Interestingly I did have a transfer to Charleston lined up from Florida in 2015.  I had to back out of it due to a parent in Florida becoming sick which ultimately led to my California transfer in 2016.  I was intrigued by the Carolinas having briefly lived in Asheville a couple summers as part of a summer job my Dad set up.

Charleston and Asheville are both gorgeous towns.  Until recently, I would have been onboard with living in a blue part of a red state, but, not now.

Let's just say that with Florida I really underestimated how much I would miss things like having access to mountains and lengthy hikes on my days off.  Work was great for me in Florida, but it really did get the point where that wasn't enough to sustain my will to live there.  I kind of got lucky with the Central Valley transfer, it was a place in California that a lot of people didn't want to go.  The thing that those people missed was the access all the great stuff (like four National Parks in a three hour radius) and not having to deal with the stereotypical inflated California cost of living.  I asked for a moon shot increase too based off the perception that all of California was expensive and still got it.

[kphoger]

I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like.  Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast.  I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive.

But didn't the California state government trample municipalities' right to pass ordinances that require local police to detain undocumented immigrants for deportation?

Or are you only opposed to state overreach when the result favors Democratic party positions?

[JayhawkCO]

Let's just say that with Florida I really underestimated how much I would miss things like having access to mountains and lengthy hikes on my days off.  Work was great for me in Florida, but it really did get the point where that wasn't enough to sustain my will to live there.  I kind of got lucky with the Central Valley transfer, it was a place in California that a lot of people didn't want to go.  The thing that those people missed was the access all the great stuff (like four National Parks in a three hour radius) and not having to deal with the stereotypical inflated California cost of living.  I asked for a moon shot increase too based off the perception that all of California was expensive and still got it.

I really loved Kansas City, the metro area. Good cost of living, nice people, nice architecture, etc. What it didn't have was anything within 4 or 5 hours that you would want to visit. Being back in Colorado, you don't take for granted all the cool stuff that's within a 2 hour drive. Sounds like we're pretty similar.

[abefroman329]

I don't want to live in any red state now that their governors are trampling municipalities' rights to enact laws the governors don't like.  Our recent trip to DC reminded me that I never want to raise my son there, or anywhere on the East Coast.  I'd move to California in a heartbeat if it wasn't so expensive.

But didn't the California state government trample municipalities' right to pass ordinances that require local police to detain undocumented immigrants for deportation?

Or are you only opposed to state overreach when the result favors Democratic party positions?

Let's not get the thread locked, kids.

ETA: I don't want to be excessively glib, but I also can't answer your questions without getting enormously political.

[kphoger]

Fair enough.  I should not have thrown that grenade.

[bing101]

https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/03/know-gen-z/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/


https://www.wgu.edu/blog/who-is-gen-z-how-they-impact-workplace1906.html


How much of this "Cities losing their Charm" has more to do with this society in general has to adapt to a new demographic the Gen Z demo.

[abefroman329]

https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/03/know-gen-z/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/


https://www.wgu.edu/blog/who-is-gen-z-how-they-impact-workplace1906.htmlHow much of this "Cities losing their Charm" has more to do with this society in general has to adapt to a new demographic the Gen Z demo.

Not much - this has been going in since before Gen-Z was born.

[Max Rockatansky]

https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/03/know-gen-z/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/


https://www.wgu.edu/blog/who-is-gen-z-how-they-impact-workplace1906.htmlHow much of this "Cities losing their Charm" has more to do with this society in general has to adapt to a new demographic the Gen Z demo.

Not much - this has been going in since before Gen-Z was born.

More so, it's Gen X culture the thing that really sells now?  I recall when I was a kid it everything 1950s era culture that really drove mass media and a lot of tourism. 

[abefroman329]

https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/03/know-gen-z/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/


https://www.wgu.edu/blog/who-is-gen-z-how-they-impact-workplace1906.htmlHow much of this "Cities losing their Charm" has more to do with this society in general has to adapt to a new demographic the Gen Z demo.

Not much - this has been going in since before Gen-Z was born.

More so, it's Gen X culture the thing that really sells now?  I recall when I was a kid it everything 1950s era culture that really drove mass media and a lot of tourism.

I think it depends what's being sold - if it's something fortysomethings and (ugh) fiftysomethings need, chances are there's going to be a commercial for it that includes 1980s pop culture references (see, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PgTjhx1VLw)

[Ted$8roadFan]

https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/03/know-gen-z/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/


https://www.wgu.edu/blog/who-is-gen-z-how-they-impact-workplace1906.htmlHow much of this "Cities losing their Charm" has more to do with this society in general has to adapt to a new demographic the Gen Z demo.

Not much - this has been going in since before Gen-Z was born.

More so, it's Gen X culture the thing that really sells now?  I recall when I was a kid it everything 1950s era culture that really drove mass media and a lot of tourism.

I think it depends what's being sold - if it's something fortysomethings and (ugh) fiftysomethings need, chances are there's going to be a commercial for it that includes 1980s pop culture references (see, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PgTjhx1VLw)

It seems to follow a 20-30+ year cycle. As a Gen-Xer, I recall many shows of my youth set in the 50s and 60s, e.g. Happy Days, Wonder Years, etc. it's only natural that the 80s and 90s are in focus for the nostalgia machine now.

[Scott5114]

It's whoever is in that prime demographic of "still working, but has the house paid off".

[kphoger]

It's whoever is in that prime demographic of "still working, but has the house paid off".

...and don't yet think of themselves as "old".

[Max Rockatansky]

It's whoever is in that prime demographic of "still working, but has the house paid off".

...and don't yet think of themselves as "old".

My wife gets angry at me when I say we are old (I'm 39 and she is 38).  My reasoning is largely the stage in life we are in included career stability and an almost certain path to paying off the mortgage in the near future.  She doesn't like it, but I don't have the drive to bounce around to make career moves like I once did in favor of stability.