NC: The proposed I-685

[Dirt Roads]

Given how many new Interstates have been popping up in North Carolina (and Texas), how long before the politicians promoting these additions ask that their own driveways become part of the Interstate System? It's ridiculous to say the least!

That reminds me of the song written by Howard Johee.  "Interstate is runnin' through my outhouse, better make my last trip there today!" 

[ARMOURERERIC]

Given how many new Interstates have been popping up in North Carolina (and Texas), how long before the politicians promoting these additions ask that their own driveways become part of the Interstate System? It's ridiculous to say the least!

When asked, state senator, Tom from Ohio, declined to comment

[sprjus4]

Given how many new Interstates have been popping up in North Carolina (and Texas), how long before the politicians promoting these additions ask that their own driveways become part of the Interstate System? It's ridiculous to say the least!

I-685 to Wilmington aside and possibly I-14, most of the proposals are somewhat reasonable IMO.

[adventurernumber1]

IMHO, the proposed southern extension of I-11 incorporating a Tucson bypass closely parallel to I-10 and I-19 makes more sense than having I-685 closely parallel I-40 all the way down to Wilmington, and that's already far-fetched enough as it is! As wild as it is, at least the former would have the purpose of bypassing Tucson and benefitting what may be increasing traffic to and from the border over the years. There is absolutely no point in extending I-685 any farther south than Newton Grove. Another interstate coming into Wilmington from the US 74 or US 17 corridor is fine, but this is just nuts. All that said, I can see the utility of a long-distance bypass of the Triangle region, although I agree some sort of connection to Fayetteville could be useful as well. I-685 may very well become the I-476 of the South, but I just hope they only focus on the part that is actually necessary, and even then there may be higher priorities in the present day. This is certainly an interesting proposal, one I never would have expected a few years ago, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[kendallhart808]

IMHO, the proposed southern extension of I-11 incorporating a Tucson bypass closely parallel to I-10 and I-19 makes more sense than having I-685 closely parallel I-40 all the way down to Wilmington, and that's already far-fetched enough as it is! As wild as it is, at least the former would have the purpose of bypassing Tucson and benefitting what may be increasing traffic to and from the border over the years. There is absolutely no point in extending I-685 any farther south than Newton Grove. Another interstate coming into Wilmington from the US 74 or US 17 corridor is fine, but this is just nuts. All that said, I can see the utility of a long-distance bypass of the Triangle region, although I agree some sort of connection to Fayetteville could be useful as well. I-685 may very well become the I-476 of the South, but I just hope they only focus on the part that is actually necessary, and even then there may be higher priorities in the present day. This is certainly an interesting proposal, one I never would have expected a few years ago, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

What's the issue with 476? It seems like it's a reasonable connection between Philadelphia and Scranton...

I do think 685 should be extended to 40 but that's really all that needed to be proposed. Sure the WMPO could have just proposed/supported the extension. It would really be more logical because you know some farmer  or small business owner read that and freaked for no reason.

Honestly WMPO could be proposing some other Interstates that would be more reasonable, it doesn't need 685.

[adventurernumber1]

IMHO, the proposed southern extension of I-11 incorporating a Tucson bypass closely parallel to I-10 and I-19 makes more sense than having I-685 closely parallel I-40 all the way down to Wilmington, and that's already far-fetched enough as it is! As wild as it is, at least the former would have the purpose of bypassing Tucson and benefitting what may be increasing traffic to and from the border over the years. There is absolutely no point in extending I-685 any farther south than Newton Grove. Another interstate coming into Wilmington from the US 74 or US 17 corridor is fine, but this is just nuts. All that said, I can see the utility of a long-distance bypass of the Triangle region, although I agree some sort of connection to Fayetteville could be useful as well. I-685 may very well become the I-476 of the South, but I just hope they only focus on the part that is actually necessary, and even then there may be higher priorities in the present day. This is certainly an interesting proposal, one I never would have expected a few years ago, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

What's the issue with 476? It seems like it's a reasonable connection between Philadelphia and Scranton...

I do think 685 should be extended to 40 but that's really all that needed to be proposed. Sure the WMPO could have just proposed/supported the extension. It would really be more logical because you know some farmer  or small business owner read that and freaked for no reason.

Honestly WMPO could be proposing some other Interstates that would be more reasonable, it doesn't need 685.

I compared it favorably to I-476, since they are unusually long corridors for a 3di, therefore making them unique interstates. I always thought I-476 was really neat, so I-685 could be neat in the same way, although there's a good argument to be made it would better suffice as a 2di (or even a different 3di number such as 640, as mentioned upthread). The numbering (685) made this news all the more shocking to me when I first heard it; not only did I not expect this project to pop up but I definitely would never have predicted the (3di) number.

[Bobby5280]

Extending to Dunn and I-95 along the US-421 (not an upgrade, it would be a new location facility) and providing a bypass of the Raleigh/Durham metro and the congested I-85 overlap for Wilmington bound traffic is a whole different thing than the ridiculous proposal to extend east of Dunn all the way to Wilmington.

I don't have a problem with a "I-685" route from Greensboro to I-95. It's that stuff of extending it from Dunn down to Wilmington that's just insane (a shorter extension from Dunn to I-40 in Newton Grove would be more logical). I just don't think routing proposed I-685 to Dunn makes all that much sense with the Fayetteville-Fort Bragg metro being a much bigger destination 20 or so miles to the South. Also, isn't the I-540/NC-540 outer loop supposed to serve some purpose as a relief route for the Triangle region?

Wilmington has for years have been trying to get a second interstate built to the city. In the 2000s they tried to get I-20 extended east, something South Carolina did not care for; it eventually was dropped by NCDOT when Governor Mike Easley left office. They have also tried to hijack I-74, with little progress thus far. And now we are with I-685, which would be a redundant parallel route of I-40; I do not see NCDOT going along with this nor do I see any powerful backers lining up either.

I would not have minded I-20 ending in Wilmington. That port city is due East of the I-20 terminus. The I-74 thing makes more sense. Most of US-74 between Wilmington and where I-74 starts being signed would be pretty easy to finish upgrading to Interstate standards. It's low hanging fruit.

I think the I-73 and I-74 split in South Carolina is more ridiculous. Why do they need TWO 2-digit interstates going into the Myrtle Beach area? And what benefit are those routes going to provide with all their crooked dog-leg turns and other garbage? Making I-74 go into Wilmington would be a fairly straight shot. Wilmington may not be a major tourist attraction like Myrtle Beach, but it is a significant port city.

[LM117]

Also, isn't the I-540/NC-540 outer loop supposed to serve some purpose as a relief route for the Triangle region?

Yes, but it won't completely bypass the entire Triangle. The NC-540 part of the loop is tolled, so I'm sure thru traffic would love a toll-free bypass, with the added benefit of bypassing the entire Triangle and the I-40/I-85 overlap to boot.

I think the I-73 and I-74 split in South Carolina is more ridiculous. Why do they need TWO 2-digit interstates going into the Myrtle Beach area?

Agreed. Myrtle Beach doesn't even care about I-74 anymore, so I doubt they would have a problem if it went to Wilmington. What they really want/need is I-73, and they can't even get that.

[The Ghostbuster]

Interstate 74 should probably end in Wilmington, perhaps at the eastern end of the Cape Fear Memorial Bridge. The Carolina Bays Parkway (and its future norther extension) could remain SC 31/future NC 31.

[WashuOtaku]

I think the I-73 and I-74 split in South Carolina is more ridiculous. Why do they need TWO 2-digit interstates going into the Myrtle Beach area?

Agreed. Myrtle Beach doesn't even care about I-74 anymore, so I doubt they would have a problem if it went to Wilmington. What they really want/need is I-73, and they can't even get that.

Does not matter what people think, I-74 was congressionally mandated to go to Georgetown, South Carolina and that has yet to be changed. If Wilmington was to EVER get I-74, it would need an Act of Congress to make it happen.

[Bobby5280]

I think there should be a use-it-or-lose-it provision with these congressional mandates of Interstate numbers going to specific locations. South Carolina needs to pony up and start building and signing its portion of I-74 or stop squatting on the designation.

[bob7374]

NCDOT is holding a public meeting this week (August 30) regarding improvements to 3 intersections along US 421 in proximity to the future Toyota plan in Randolph County near the Guilford County line, part of the process in upgrading the road to be a future interstate:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/HE-0004-2022-08-24.aspx

[wdcrft63]

Today we learned that Wolfspeed will build a $5B semiconductor chip plant a few miles northwest of Siler City. This is the biggest economic development in NC history, bigger than the Toyota commitment near Greensboro. The site is less than a mile from US 421/Future I-685 but not at an exit, so a new exit will certainly be provided. This guarantees NCDOT will be scrambling to upgrade US 421 to I-685 between Greensboro and US 64 at Siler City.

[Bobby5280]

An Interstate quality upgrade of US-421 from Greensboro down to Siler City should be pretty easy. There's just a handful of at-grade intersections to convert either into diamond shape exits or just grade separations. Siler City down to Sanford would be a more complicated upgrade since there are more intersections and driveways to convert/eliminate. Ultimately, I think there should be an Interstate quality freeway direct from Greensboro to Fayetteville/Fort Bragg.

[bob7374]

The creation of a future interstate along US 421 between I-40 and I-95 is not enough for some officials in NC who want to designate US 421 from I-40 west of Winston-Salem to Wilkesboro as an interstate. I-340 anyone?
https://journalnow.com/news/local/forsyth-backs-effort-to-make-us-421-to-wilkesboro-an-interstate-highway/article_70ed6a58-50a4-11ed-a206-1be788106a6f.html

[ahj2000]

The creation of a future interstate along US 421 between I-40 and I-95 is not enough for some officials in NC who want to designate US 421 from I-40 west of Winston-Salem to Wilkesboro as an interstate. I-340 anyone?
https://journalnow.com/news/local/forsyth-backs-effort-to-make-us-421-to-wilkesboro-an-interstate-highway/article_70ed6a58-50a4-11ed-a206-1be788106a6f.html

Isn't it pretty close to 100% Interstate standards?


iPhone

[ARMOURERERIC]

577

[Evan_Th]

The creation of a future interstate along US 421 between I-40 and I-95 is not enough for some officials in NC who want to designate US 421 from I-40 west of Winston-Salem to Wilkesboro as an interstate. I-340 anyone?
https://journalnow.com/news/local/forsyth-backs-effort-to-make-us-421-to-wilkesboro-an-interstate-highway/article_70ed6a58-50a4-11ed-a206-1be788106a6f.html

That actually makes more sense than the Greensboro-Dunn section.  If both get done, I think it'd deserve to be a new mainline interstate.  I-38, anyone?

[sprjus4]

^ Greensboro to Dunn or Fayetteville is definitely far more worthy of an interstate highway.

As far as meeting interstate standards... no, but it is a fully controlled access freeway. The shoulders would need widening.

[LM117]

The creation of a future interstate along US 421 between I-40 and I-95 is not enough for some officials in NC who want to designate US 421 from I-40 west of Winston-Salem to Wilkesboro as an interstate. I-340 anyone?
https://journalnow.com/news/local/forsyth-backs-effort-to-make-us-421-to-wilkesboro-an-interstate-highway/article_70ed6a58-50a4-11ed-a206-1be788106a6f.html

Surprised they're not asking for US-421 through downtown W-S to become part of it as well. That part was upgraded fairly recently, IIRC.

[Bobby5280]

An Interstate-quality upgrade of US-421 from Wilkesboro to I-40 on the West side of Winston-Salem should be relatively easy. The shoulders definitely need a lot of work. Some exit ramps along the way might not be up to current Interstate design standards, which might require the purchase of a bit more ROW. Looking at the highway via Google Earth I saw only one at-grade intersection, which looked like access to some farm land.

But how important is this segment of US-421? Does it really need an Interstate designation? Wilkesboro is not exactly a big town at all (fewer than 4000 residents). I can only guess Wilkesboro is located at an important enough highway junction to warrant a freeway being built there from Winton-Salem.

It seems to me like overkill for them to request an Interstate designation for that segment of highway. I think I would have an easier time trying to justify building an I-44 spur from Lawton/Fort Sill to Altus -a town of nearly 20,000 people and home to a large Air Force base (the 4-lane US-62 highway already does a good enough job).

The bigger problem with so many highways being signed as Interstates in North Carolina is that it dilutes the importance of an Interstate to the larger highway network. If this part of US-421 was re-signed as an Interstate I think it should only get a 3-digit designation -like the I-577 suggestion ARMOURERERIC mentioned. Most of the potential I-x40 numbers are getting used elsewhere.

[Henry]

The creation of a future interstate along US 421 between I-40 and I-95 is not enough for some officials in NC who want to designate US 421 from I-40 west of Winston-Salem to Wilkesboro as an interstate. I-340 anyone?
https://journalnow.com/news/local/forsyth-backs-effort-to-make-us-421-to-wilkesboro-an-interstate-highway/article_70ed6a58-50a4-11ed-a206-1be788106a6f.html

Surprised they're not asking for US-421 through downtown W-S to become part of it as well. That part was upgraded fairly recently, IIRC.

Even after the upgrades, the highway through downtown is still substandard, which caused I-40 to be rerouted onto the southern bypass in 1992. NCDOT decided that it would be better to build a new freeway than undergo an expensive construction project just to bring the original one up to standard. I-40 was rerouted around Greensboro, too, but was later switched back, because at least the parts west of Death Valley have been vastly improved.

AFAIK, I-340 has never even been proposed anywhere, so that would be a good place for the Wilkesboro spur.

[The Ghostbuster]

I expected the US 421 freeway between Winston-Salem and Wilkesboro would be a target for an Interstate designation sooner or later. Making it Interstate 340 would probably be the best number for the corridor, assuming it eventually comes into fruition (whether the corridor should become an Interstate corridor in the first place is debatable).

[Dirt Roads]

I expected the US 421 freeway between Winston-Salem and Wilkesboro would be a target for an Interstate designation sooner or later. Making it Interstate 340 would probably be the best number for the corridor, assuming it eventually comes into fruition (whether the corridor should become an Interstate corridor in the first place is debatable).

If the US-421 freeway ever gets extended to Boone, you might see NCDOT request a 3DI designation.  The freeway from Winston-Salem -to- Wilkesboro/North Wilkesboro was completed back in late 2005, and there hasn't been the level of civic development around that terminus deserving of a node on the Interstate system.  Boone is a decent size college town with a huge winter and summer tourist season.

[wdcrft63]

I expected the US 421 freeway between Winston-Salem and Wilkesboro would be a target for an Interstate designation sooner or later. Making it Interstate 340 would probably be the best number for the corridor, assuming it eventually comes into fruition (whether the corridor should become an Interstate corridor in the first place is debatable).

Calm down everyone.
(1) Despite appearances it's not true that NC wants every freeway to be an interstate.
(2) Wilkesboro is not an appropriate destination for an interstate. It's a small town. US 421 is a freeway to carry travelers to mountain resorts. It carries practically no interstate traffic.
(3) In Winston-Salem US 421 formerly was signed as Business 40 – in fact, it was originally 40. When it was rebuilt recently the W-S government specifically requested that the Business 40 signage be removed. W-S does not want through traffic coming through downtown and would strenuously oppose any interstate designation for US 421.