Curious old NYS reference marker

[Duke87]

Also of note, the bus lanes have been on Fordham Road since ~2005. Long before Adam took his picture.

As far as I am aware, no surface streets within New York City were ever state maintained. Only parkways and expressways (and even then it's mixed).

[HurrMark]

I am pretty sure the Belt Parkway was 9X at some point. I remember riding with my family as a kid in the early 90s and noticed it was fairly commonplace.

[D-Dey65]

I am pretty sure the Belt Parkway was 9X at some point. I remember riding with my family as a kid in the early 90s and noticed it was fairly commonplace.

Belt Parkway, maybe. But I definitely remember seeing it on the Cross Island Parkway in the late-1960's and early-1970's.

At some point in the early-70's, I even remember it with standard NYS Route shields.

[Alps]

I am pretty sure the Belt Parkway was 9X at some point. I remember riding with my family as a kid in the early 90s and noticed it was fairly commonplace.

Belt Parkway, maybe. But I definitely remember seeing it on the Cross Island Parkway in the late-1960's and early-1970's.

At some point in the early-70's, I even remember it with standard NYS Route shields.

Ahem, ahem, Cross Island IS the Belt.

Also, John Krakoff pointed out that 8X's 1000 reference marker was under the Southern Blvd. overpass on Fordham Rd. He said that seemed like a random place. I looked at a map, and it would only have made sense if 4X continued on Southern Blvd. That got me thinking - 9X is the Belt, and 1X connected down the West Side Highway and through the Battery Tunnel. If 1X went up the Henry Hudson to Mosholu, that would connect it to 4X, which also would have connected to 8X. 2X is the Triboro spur, so it would make sense if the FDR/Harlem River Drive combination were another X route, perhaps 3X. But what other routes would qualify? Of the above, 4X is a Parkway but not a freeway, and 8X is on US 1. Also, the only known X route on Long Island is the Belt.

[empirestate]

Also, John Krakoff pointed out that 8X's 1000 reference marker was under the Southern Blvd. overpass on Fordham Rd. He said that seemed like a random place. I looked at a map, and it would only have made sense if 4X continued on Southern Blvd. That got me thinking - 9X is the Belt, and 1X connected down the West Side Highway and through the Battery Tunnel. If 1X went up the Henry Hudson to Mosholu, that would connect it to 4X, which also would have connected to 8X. 2X is the Triboro spur, so it would make sense if the FDR/Harlem River Drive combination were another X route, perhaps 3X. But what other routes would qualify? Of the above, 4X is a Parkway but not a freeway, and 8X is on US 1. Also, the only known X route on Long Island is the Belt.

I missed where we found 1X on the West Side?

[Alps]

Also, John Krakoff pointed out that 8X's 1000 reference marker was under the Southern Blvd. overpass on Fordham Rd. He said that seemed like a random place. I looked at a map, and it would only have made sense if 4X continued on Southern Blvd. That got me thinking - 9X is the Belt, and 1X connected down the West Side Highway and through the Battery Tunnel. If 1X went up the Henry Hudson to Mosholu, that would connect it to 4X, which also would have connected to 8X. 2X is the Triboro spur, so it would make sense if the FDR/Harlem River Drive combination were another X route, perhaps 3X. But what other routes would qualify? Of the above, 4X is a Parkway but not a freeway, and 8X is on US 1. Also, the only known X route on Long Island is the Belt.

I missed where we found 1X on the West Side?

Whoops, 1X was the Hutch. Faulty memory on my part.

1X = Hutch
2X = Triboro (and FDR?)
4X = Mosholu (and Southern Blvd.?)
8X = Fordham Rd. (and Pelham Pkwy.?)
9X = Belt system

1X tied into 9X directly. If 8X extended east along Pelham, that would tie it into 1X. 4X could have met 8X by continuing south, leaving the dangling end of 2X as the oddity.

[D-Dey65]

Belt Parkway, maybe. But I definitely remember seeing it on the Cross Island Parkway in the late-1960's and early-1970's.

At some point in the early-70's, I even remember it with standard NYS Route shields.

Ahem, ahem, Cross Island IS the Belt.

Yeah, until you hit the Southern State. Then the Belt becomes Laurelton, the Southern, and the Shore Parkways.

I wasn't on those other segments of it as often as I was on the Cross Island when I was a kid, but because they're all part of the Belt Parkway, I can believe they were 9X too.

[empirestate]

Ahem, ahem, Cross Island IS the Belt.

Yeah, until you hit the Southern State. Then the Belt becomes Laurelton, the Southern, and the Shore Parkways.

I wasn't on those other segments of it as often as I was on the Cross Island when I was a kid, but because they're all part of the Belt Parkway, I can believe they were 9X too.

Point (I think) being that the Cross Island was originally equivalent to the Laurelton, Southern and Shore Parkways as being a component of the Belt system. Since that time, the Cross Island has gained an identity separate from the Belt Parkway, but the other three parts have been subsumed into it (other than having separate reference route numbers still).

But if the Cross Island was once 9X, it's eminently logical that the (currently so-called) Belt was too, since they would at the time have been the Belt together.

[D-Dey65]

Point (I think) being that the Cross Island was originally equivalent to the Laurelton, Southern and Shore Parkways as being a component of the Belt system. Since that time, the Cross Island has gained an identity separate from the Belt Parkway, but the other three parts have been subsumed into it (other than having separate reference route numbers still).

But if the Cross Island was once 9X, it's eminently logical that the (currently so-called) Belt was too, since they would at the time have been the Belt together.

I get that, and I never tried to suggest otherwise. I was just saying that I was more familiar with the Cross Island than the other segments, and I still remember the 9X reference markers there.

[Alps]

I took a nice bike ride today, up Amsterdam Ave., across Macombs Dam Bridge, up Jerome Ave. to Fordham Rd., Southern Blvd. to Mosholu Pkwy., and back down Broadway to the Hudson River Greenway. It's in this thread for obvious reasons. Notes:
* Jerome Ave. has a number of wide I-95 shields, and at least one state-name 95 and 87, both before and after going under the El.
* There is no 8X west of Webster Ave. on Fordham Rd. This had been rumored, but I scoured both sides of the road through "downtown" (it was said to be westbound just beyond Fordham) and saw nothing.
* There is an 8X marker in either direction of Fordham Rd. (becoming Pelham Pkwy.) mounted on the wall of the Southern Blvd. overpass, about 8 feet up. The EB one has an "A" in the first row, the WB one has a "1". After consulting a map, I'm going to hypothesize that 8X refers to Pelham Parkway, as opposed to being an unusual overlap with US 1.
* In aerials, it looks like there are a number of dualization stubs of Mosholu Parkway, which is one carriageway for much of its length east of the Deegan. The easternmost one, at Southern Blvd., is a parking lot by a former train station. It does not seem like a Mosholu stub.
* After much tribulation, I confirmed the existence of the 4X marker along Mosholu NB. I got good direction to get there, but passed right by it the first time. Coming up the Mosholu's bike/ped trail, it heads on a long downhill from Gun Hill Rd., underpasses the Deegan and starts to loop around. At that point, go up the stairs and cross over the Mosholu on the side of the SB Deegan. The trail then veers away from the highway and joins the aqueduct - straight, flat, and high in the air. After about 1/4 mile, there's a marked trail turnoff to the left. Take that turnoff, and it comes back down toward the Mosholu NB. As soon as it gets right next to the highway, the 4X marker is on the right. The trail then veers away from the highway again and never comes back. With a golf course in the way, I ended up crossing some fences for lack of knowing how else to get to the Putnam RR trail - I don't think it's actually possible in any reasonable way, so you're probably best off going back out the way you came.
* The Hudson River Greenway is beautifully scenic along the Henry Hudson Pkwy. NB side, and then drops dramatically down to the water RIGHT NEXT to the GWB. There's access to the Little Red Lighthouse and stellar bridge views. Later on, part of the greenway hasn't been built, and traffic has to head left - note how reluctant I am - to 10th Ave. under the Riverside Drive arches. That just might be my favorite part of the Greenway.

[Alps]

New theory (merge with prior post and DIE):
X routes are state-maintained highways within the City of New York otherwise without numbers. With 8X as the Pelham, that all falls into place for the five we know about. So 3X 5X 6X 7X would be Bronx River Pkwy., Interboro Pkwy., Grand Central Pkwy., and probably Ocean Pkwy. In this theory, 2X is actually the Harlem River-FDR combination, and the Triboro Manhattan leg is just signed as a ramp offshoot from 2X.

[NE2]

Maybe? But https://www.dot.ny.gov/regional-offices/region11/general-info/built-and-unbuilt-arterial-system shows no state-maintained portions of the Cross Island.

[Alps]

Maybe? But https://www.dot.ny.gov/regional-offices/region11/general-info/built-and-unbuilt-arterial-system shows no state-maintained portions of the Cross Island.

The 2X, 4X, and 8X markers are all on state-maintained sections, though the known routes 1X and 9X are mostly city-maintained. I'm not sure if that's a deal-breaker.

[NE2]

* In aerials, it looks like there are a number of dualization stubs of Mosholu Parkway, which is one carriageway for much of its length east of the Deegan. The easternmost one, at Southern Blvd., is a parking lot by a former train station. It does not seem like a Mosholu stub.

I think it was intended for an extension/straightening of the Mosh.
http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/768/Index+Map/Bronx+Upper+1938+Vol+2+1938/New+York/

It was built in 1942; the bridges on the Mosh itself in that area are from 1905. The north end of the Mosh is from 1939.

[Alps]

* In aerials, it looks like there are a number of dualization stubs of Mosholu Parkway, which is one carriageway for much of its length east of the Deegan. The easternmost one, at Southern Blvd., is a parking lot by a former train station. It does not seem like a Mosholu stub.

I think it was intended for an extension/straightening of the Mosh.
http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/768/Index+Map/Bronx+Upper+1938+Vol+2+1938/New+York/

It was built in 1942; the bridges on the Mosh itself in that area are from 1905. The north end of the Mosh is from 1939.

That's an amazing map. But on the other hand, it's nowhere near wide enough for the whole Mosholu, which is implied by the older map. But on the third hand, why else build an overpass like that? On a side note, I really love the interchanges in the park. What was the northern one, some sort of early Thruway connection proposal? Connection to NY 100?

[NE2]

NY 100 was on Jerome Avenue; could a highway have been planned along the Old Croton Aqueduct? I don't think either interchange shown in the park south of the HHP was actually built, though the north one may have been graded.

[edit]the same plans on Hagstrom: http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/70673/Page+012+++Manhattan++Bronx+++Map+No++4/New+York+City+1949+Five+Boroughs+Street+Atlas/New+York/


Apparently the unbuilt extension to the BRP was the "Mosholu Parkway Easterly Spur".

[Alps]

NY 100 was on Jerome Avenue; could a highway have been planned along the Old Croton Aqueduct? I don't think either interchange shown in the park south of the HHP was actually built, though the north one may have been graded.

[edit]the same plans on Hagstrom: http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/70673/Page+012+++Manhattan++Bronx+++Map+No++4/New+York+City+1949+Five+Boroughs+Street+Atlas/New+York/


Apparently the unbuilt extension to the BRP was the "Mosholu Parkway Easterly Spur".

No visible work, even grading or tree clearing, at either interchange that I saw. But wow, what a different Parkway that would have been.

[Roadgeek Adam]

* There is no 8X west of Webster Ave. on Fordham Rd. This had been rumored, but I scoured both sides of the road through "downtown" (it was said to be westbound just beyond Fordham) and saw nothing.

Well, it was there when I was last there, so its all I can say. I wouldn't be making it up if I didn't see it. (This would all be solved if I had gotten a pic.)

[Duke87]

Bumping this because of something I just happened to spot today, but not in time to get my own picture of:

Confirmed 9X reference marker still in existence. Cross Island Parkway NB just past where the lane from onramp from the LIE ends.

[tckma]

Secret level: Oyster Bay-Rye Bridge

That would be XX, wouldn't it?  Or perhaps just 135.