New Jersey

[jp the roadgeek]

According to miles in NJ and its mileposts EB should be 2A for New Brunswick Avenue and 2B for I-95. WB it should be 2A for the 2 Bayway exits on the right and 2B for the left Turnpike exit.

That would also fit in with NY's sequential exit numbering while maintaining NJ's mile based at the same time.

Actually, they would be 1A and 1B EB since they are between MP 0.5 and MP 1.5.  Westbound (assuming no use of Exit 0), Bayway would be 1D, the Turnpike 1C, the U-Turn to 278 East 1B, and 1-9 South 1A.  If NY goes mileage based, the first (last) exit after (before) the bridge would be 2A, so it would appear seamless.

[storm2k]

Been seeing this super compressed number font on a bunch of county shields around Middlesex County. Anyone know what they're using? Like a compressed Series C?

[Roadgeek Adam]

They stopped using those, but they were the thing for a few years.

[odditude]

Been seeing this super compressed number font on a bunch of county shields around Middlesex County. Anyone know what they're using? Like a compressed Series C?

looks like regular Series B to me.

[Alps]

Been seeing this super compressed number font on a bunch of county shields around Middlesex County. Anyone know what they're using? Like a compressed Series C?

looks like regular Series B to me.

Agreed, but with a thicker stroke for some reason.

[storm2k]

Been seeing this super compressed number font on a bunch of county shields around Middlesex County. Anyone know what they're using? Like a compressed Series C?

looks like regular Series B to me.

Agreed, but with a thicker stroke for some reason.

That's why I was confused. Series B is pretty thin. This is thicker, but not like Series C is.

[storm2k]

Got a quick glimpse of a new sign structure on the new 278 overpass over the Turnpike (the WB one that will come off the second Goethals span). 278 exits now have exit numbers. Bayway did not appear to have a NJ-439 shield. I am curious if NJDOT will actually add exit numbers to their signage on the EB (I don't think they have any signs beyond the Turnpike/Bayway exits, which are signed by the PA).

What are the exit numbers (if you saw)? 1 and 2? 2A and 2B? Bc it picks up at 3 in NY, I'm assuming because they want NJ to combine with them on "beltway style"  exit numbering.

Actually, the first exit in NY is 4.

The Bayway exits are 3A-B. Turnpike exit looks like 2. I agree with roadman that NJDOT could use 2A-B for the Elizabeth and Turnpike exits heading towards the bridge, and let 1-9 be silent Exit 1.

OK, I was wrong. The Turnpike exit is 3A. The Bayway exits are 3B-C.

[Alps]

OK, I was wrong. The Turnpike exit is 3A. The Bayway exits are 3B-C.

http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/refdata/sldiag/00000278__-.pdf
Exit 1 = US 1/9. Exit 2 = CR 616. Exit 3 = I-95.
It's definitely sequential. But it makes no sense given that 1/9 is the terminus. It should really be Exits 1A-1C = I-95/CR 616.

[storm2k]

OK, I was wrong. The Turnpike exit is 3A. The Bayway exits are 3B-C.

http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/refdata/sldiag/00000278__-.pdf
Exit 1 = US 1/9. Exit 2 = CR 616. Exit 3 = I-95.
It's definitely sequential. But it makes no sense given that 1/9 is the terminus. It should really be Exits 1A-1C = I-95/CR 616.

I'm guessing they're keeping it sequential for the sake of NY continuing the mileage. This whole thing of having exit tabs is new, as the signage up to this point never showed them.

[vdeane]

Honestly, I'd really like to know what NJDOT is smoking with those numbers.  The MUTCD mandates mile-based.  NJ converted a long time ago.  Even having some kind of continuity with NY doesn't make sense because the lowest number in NY is currently 3 and would a mile-based number for it would likely be 3A if NY were to continue the mileage from NJ (otherwise it would likely be 1A).

I don't see any reason for US 1/9 to be numbered (especially since it's not really an "exit" so much as the lanes merging onto another road), so I'd use 1A for Brunswick Ave/Cole Pl and 1B for the Turnpike.  The area is functionally one interchange anyways.

[vdeane]

Are they also telling NY to renumber exit 3 to exit 4?  Because if not, there are two exit 3s in a row headed WB.  In any case, FHWA has said that sequential numbers need to die, and this is a step backwards from that, with numbers that don't make sense no matter what you do.  The Turnpike/Brunswick Ave exits are one interchange, so it makes sense for them to have the same number even in sequential, and there is no way that you will ever convince me that the merge with US 1/9 is in any stretch of the imagination an "exit", so no reason to number it.  Again, though, even if you did, in a proper sequential scheme than the highest number would still only be 2B, not 3.

[storm2k]

I mean, in fairness, this is PANYNJ signage and they tend to do whatever the hell they want to do. This is why there are sequential numbers on the Trans-Manhattan Expressway coming off the GWB even tho NYSDOT is using milage based numbers for the Cross Bronx. You go from 2 for the Harlem River Drive exit to 1C-D for the Deegan exit. That renumbering happened years ago, but the original numbers remain on the roadways managed by the PA. So who knows.

[AMLNet49]

I mean, in fairness, this is PANYNJ signage and they tend to do whatever the hell they want to do. This is why there are sequential numbers on the Trans-Manhattan Expressway coming off the GWB even tho NYSDOT is using milage based numbers for the Cross Bronx. You go from 2 for the Harlem River Drive exit to 1C-D for the Deegan exit. That renumbering happened years ago, but the original numbers remain on the roadways managed by the PA. So who knows.

I-95 has been thankfully mostly fixed SB with the correct sequence (2A, 1CD, 1B, 1A) restored, but yeah northbound it's still a complete mess (1, 2, 3/1CD, 2A) because PANYNJ controls most of the northbound signage.

If this is PANYNJ and not NJDoT doing the signage, then yeah this could end up being a real cluster. Have the tarps been taken off the tabs yet or are we just speculating?

[roadman65]

According to miles in NJ and its mileposts EB should be 2A for New Brunswick Avenue and 2B for I-95. WB it should be 2A for the 2 Bayway exits on the right and 2B for the left Turnpike exit.

That would also fit in with NY's sequential exit numbering while maintaining NJ's mile based at the same time.

Actually, they would be 1A and 1B EB since they are between MP 0.5 and MP 1.5.  Westbound (assuming no use of Exit 0), Bayway would be 1D, the Turnpike 1C, the U-Turn to 278 East 1B, and 1-9 South 1A.  If NY goes mileage based, the first (last) exit after (before) the bridge would be 2A, so it would appear seamless.

Sometimes you cannot get em perfect.  Look at the Parkway.  Exit 138 for CR 509 is at MM 140 2 miles difference with US 22 1 mile away near MM 139 is 140 while Chestnut Street is 139A/B.

If NJDOT ever goes through with making the US 1 & 9 interchange a complete one, it would really get 1A and 1B being NJDOT does not use 0 like WV does.

[vdeane]

I mean, in fairness, this is PANYNJ signage and they tend to do whatever the hell they want to do. This is why there are sequential numbers on the Trans-Manhattan Expressway coming off the GWB even tho NYSDOT is using milage based numbers for the Cross Bronx. You go from 2 for the Harlem River Drive exit to 1C-D for the Deegan exit. That renumbering happened years ago, but the original numbers remain on the roadways managed by the PA. So who knows.

Technically the mile-based numbers are the original ones.  The road was numbered mile-based in the 70s when NYSDOT was considering ditching sequential numbers.  A decade or two ago, it was decided to convert the numbers to sequential (never mind that this would cause a discontinuity with the Thruway portion).  The Port Authority and about half the NYSDOT signs changed and then the project quietly was aborted.  The NYSDOT signs reverted to mile-based, but the Port Authority kept the sequential numbers.  All the southbound signs and some NB signs for 1C/D were reverted during the Alexander Hamilton Bridge project, but the others remain, even the one that had a tab replaced to meet current MUTCD standards.

As for the Port Authority... yeesh.  That explains a lot.  Though it is conceivable that they might change the NY 3 to 4.  Then again, this is PANYNJ... when it comes to signage, both them and the MTA give even less of a **** than Janice from Accounting (warning: NSFW).

[storm2k]

I mean, in fairness, this is PANYNJ signage and they tend to do whatever the hell they want to do. This is why there are sequential numbers on the Trans-Manhattan Expressway coming off the GWB even tho NYSDOT is using milage based numbers for the Cross Bronx. You go from 2 for the Harlem River Drive exit to 1C-D for the Deegan exit. That renumbering happened years ago, but the original numbers remain on the roadways managed by the PA. So who knows.

Technically the mile-based numbers are the original ones.  The road was numbered mile-based in the 70s when NYSDOT was considering ditching sequential numbers.  A decade or two ago, it was decided to convert the numbers to sequential (never mind that this would cause a discontinuity with the Thruway portion).  The Port Authority and about half the NYSDOT signs changed and then the project quietly was aborted.  The NYSDOT signs reverted to mile-based, but the Port Authority kept the sequential numbers.  All the southbound signs and some NB signs for 1C/D were reverted during the Alexander Hamilton Bridge project, but the others remain, even the one that had a tab replaced to meet current MUTCD standards.

As for the Port Authority... yeesh.  That explains a lot.  Though it is conceivable that they might change the NY 3 to 4.  Then again, this is PANYNJ... when it comes to signage, both them and the MTA give even less of a **** than Janice from Accounting (warning: NSFW).

I do remember when the Deegan exits became 3N-S in the early aughts. The PA could not even get on board with that because they sign the Deegan as just "Exit 3". All the signage on the Trans-Manhattan is theirs, so the exit for the HHP going SB is just Exit 1 even though I think NYSDOT considers it 1A.

[roadman65]

I mean, in fairness, this is PANYNJ signage and they tend to do whatever the hell they want to do. This is why there are sequential numbers on the Trans-Manhattan Expressway coming off the GWB even tho NYSDOT is using milage based numbers for the Cross Bronx. You go from 2 for the Harlem River Drive exit to 1C-D for the Deegan exit. That renumbering happened years ago, but the original numbers remain on the roadways managed by the PA. So who knows.

Technically the mile-based numbers are the original ones.  The road was numbered mile-based in the 70s when NYSDOT was considering ditching sequential numbers.  A decade or two ago, it was decided to convert the numbers to sequential (never mind that this would cause a discontinuity with the Thruway portion).  The Port Authority and about half the NYSDOT signs changed and then the project quietly was aborted.  The NYSDOT signs reverted to mile-based, but the Port Authority kept the sequential numbers.  All the southbound signs and some NB signs for 1C/D were reverted during the Alexander Hamilton Bridge project, but the others remain, even the one that had a tab replaced to meet current MUTCD standards.

As for the Port Authority... yeesh.  That explains a lot.  Though it is conceivable that they might change the NY 3 to 4.  Then again, this is PANYNJ... when it comes to signage, both them and the MTA give even less of a **** than Janice from Accounting (warning: NSFW).

The Port Authority is one of the most powerful government beauraucracies around.  I heard from my dad when he was alive they do not have to publish to the general public how they spend their money and owe no explanation to where they hold it and what their plans are to divide it up or invest it. 

Crazy!  Anyway at least they got the exit numbers right on the NJ side.

[AMLNet49]

I mean, in fairness, this is PANYNJ signage and they tend to do whatever the hell they want to do. This is why there are sequential numbers on the Trans-Manhattan Expressway coming off the GWB even tho NYSDOT is using milage based numbers for the Cross Bronx. You go from 2 for the Harlem River Drive exit to 1C-D for the Deegan exit. That renumbering happened years ago, but the original numbers remain on the roadways managed by the PA. So who knows.

Technically the mile-based numbers are the original ones.  The road was numbered mile-based in the 70s when NYSDOT was considering ditching sequential numbers.  A decade or two ago, it was decided to convert the numbers to sequential (never mind that this would cause a discontinuity with the Thruway portion).  The Port Authority and about half the NYSDOT signs changed and then the project quietly was aborted.  The NYSDOT signs reverted to mile-based, but the Port Authority kept the sequential numbers.  All the southbound signs and some NB signs for 1C/D were reverted during the Alexander Hamilton Bridge project, but the others remain, even the one that had a tab replaced to meet current MUTCD standards.

As for the Port Authority... yeesh.  That explains a lot.  Though it is conceivable that they might change the NY 3 to 4.  Then again, this is PANYNJ... when it comes to signage, both them and the MTA give even less of a **** than Janice from Accounting (warning: NSFW).

I do remember when the Deegan exits became 3N-S in the early aughts. The PA could not even get on board with that because they sign the Deegan as just "Exit 3". All the signage on the Trans-Manhattan is theirs, so the exit for the HHP going SB is just Exit 1 even though I think NYSDOT considers it 1A.

This used to be the case but there are now at least three “1A” advance signs southbound, while there’s only one or two left with “1”. The sequence southbound is essentially correct these days. 2A, then 1CD for the Deegan, 1B for Amsterdam (which splits off the Deegan ramp w/ no HRD access from the southbound side), 1A for Henry Hudson, with a couple signs reading Exit 1 as the exit approaches. There is no tab on the sign at the ramp itself, but 1A is signed well enough SB these days that you could easily give someone instructions to 1A and it would be obvious where to go.

It’s northbound that’s pretty f’ed up, as @vdean mentioned, with there not being a single sign for 1A or 1B (labeled 1 and 2 instead) with 1C having only a few signs after the TME ends. To give someone directions to the Deegan NB you’d have to probably say exit 3, unlike the HHP exit in the other direction.

As for how that applies to New Jersey, well if PANYNJ is signing this, then there can be no level of expectation  for matching either NJDoT’s numbers or NYSDoT’s

[storm2k]

I mean, in fairness, this is PANYNJ signage and they tend to do whatever the hell they want to do. This is why there are sequential numbers on the Trans-Manhattan Expressway coming off the GWB even tho NYSDOT is using milage based numbers for the Cross Bronx. You go from 2 for the Harlem River Drive exit to 1C-D for the Deegan exit. That renumbering happened years ago, but the original numbers remain on the roadways managed by the PA. So who knows.

Technically the mile-based numbers are the original ones.  The road was numbered mile-based in the 70s when NYSDOT was considering ditching sequential numbers.  A decade or two ago, it was decided to convert the numbers to sequential (never mind that this would cause a discontinuity with the Thruway portion).  The Port Authority and about half the NYSDOT signs changed and then the project quietly was aborted.  The NYSDOT signs reverted to mile-based, but the Port Authority kept the sequential numbers.  All the southbound signs and some NB signs for 1C/D were reverted during the Alexander Hamilton Bridge project, but the others remain, even the one that had a tab replaced to meet current MUTCD standards.

As for the Port Authority... yeesh.  That explains a lot.  Though it is conceivable that they might change the NY 3 to 4.  Then again, this is PANYNJ... when it comes to signage, both them and the MTA give even less of a **** than Janice from Accounting (warning: NSFW).

I do remember when the Deegan exits became 3N-S in the early aughts. The PA could not even get on board with that because they sign the Deegan as just "Exit 3". All the signage on the Trans-Manhattan is theirs, so the exit for the HHP going SB is just Exit 1 even though I think NYSDOT considers it 1A.

This used to be the case but there are now at least three "1A"  advance signs southbound, while there's only one or two left with "1" . The sequence southbound is essentially correct these days. 2A, then 1CD for the Deegan, 1B for Amsterdam (which splits off the Deegan ramp w/ no HRD access from the southbound side), 1A for Henry Hudson, with a couple signs reading Exit 1 as the exit approaches. There is no tab on the sign at the ramp itself, but 1A is signed well enough SB these days that you could easily give someone instructions to 1A and it would be obvious where to go.

It's northbound that's pretty f'ed up, as @vdean mentioned, with there not being a single sign for 1A or 1B (labeled 1 and 2 instead) with 1C having only a few signs after the TME ends. To give someone directions to the Deegan NB you'd have to probably say exit 3, unlike the HHP exit in the other direction.

As for how that applies to New Jersey, well if PANYNJ is signing this, then there can be no level of expectation  for matching either NJDoT's numbers or NYSDoT's

All those SB signs that correctly show 1A are from NYSDOT and were replaced as part of the Alexander Hamilton Bridge project a couple of years ago. Once you get under the apartments and past that, it's PA territory and they continue their incorrect signage.

[vdeane]

The exit numbers on I-678 leaving JFK are also weird.  Southbound it's 1/1E/1W.  Northbound signage says 1/1E/1B, with a single sign also identifying 1/1E and 1A.

[jeffandnicole]

In my morning emails I see this about the AC Expressway:  "Expressway Tolls Could Rise". 

So I click on the link to find this headline: "Atlantic City Council wants expressway to raise toll to benefit city".  Pretty interesting being that the Atlantic City Council has nothing to do with the Atlantic City Expressway.

Then within the article, it gets more interesting: "The SJTA was unaware of the City Council resolution and declined to comment until the agency had a better understanding of the issue."

Maybe Atlantic City should've, you know, communicated with the actual owner of the road before proposing something that would have an effect on toll collection efforts!

Full article here: http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/press/atlantic_city/atlantic-city-council-wants-expressway-to-raise-toll-to-benefit/article_90a4e55c-20a7-5f39-9959-e55951bcafe5.html?utm_source=WhatCountsEmail&utm_medium=Daily%20Headlines&utm_campaign=DAILY%20HEADLINES%20-%20Thursday

[bzakharin]

Does Atlantic City get toll revenue from the ACE? That sounds a bit odd for a statewide toll road.

[jeffandnicole]

Unless there's some contribution from the Expressway for a specific project, the toll revenue doesn't go AC at all.  It sounds like Atlantic City is just looking at all possible income sources, and for some reason figured they could grab what could be over 20% of the Expressway's toll revenue if the council got the Expressway to raise the tolls!

[artmalk]

On Thursday, I saw two new signs on I-280 near Exit 4, Eisenhower Parkway.  Eastbound the sign says "280 East, to 95, NJTP."  Control City is Kearny (skipping over The Oranges, Newark, and Harrison).  Westbound at the same place the new sign says "280 West to 80" with control city of Parsippany (for the first time).

I was thrilled to see Parsippany, my home town, on a BGS!  It is the appropriate control city as the western terminus of 280.  However, I am not sure about the choice of Kearny.  Although it is the eastern terminus, skipping over Newark makes no sense.   Otherwise, it is good that the sign shows 95 and NJTP.

I wonder if there will be more of these new signs on 280.  As it is, many of the BGS assemblies on 280 have signs that show simply "East 280" or "West 280" with no control city at all.

[Alps]

On Thursday, I saw two new signs on I-280 near Exit 4, Eisenhower Parkway.  Eastbound the sign says "280 East, to 95, NJTP."  Control City is Kearny (skipping over The Oranges, Newark, and Harrison).  Westbound at the same place the new sign says "280 West to 80" with control city of Parsippany (for the first time).

I was thrilled to see Parsippany, my home town, on a BGS!  It is the appropriate control city as the western terminus of 280.  However, I am not sure about the choice of Kearny.  Although it is the eastern terminus, skipping over Newark makes no sense.   Otherwise, it is good that the sign shows 95 and NJTP.

I wonder if there will be more of these new signs on 280.  As it is, many of the BGS assemblies on 280 have signs that show simply "East 280" or "West 280" with no control city at all.

That is brand spanking new then because I didn't see them a week ago. I'll put it on my to-do list. I hate seeing The Oranges go, but Newark definitely makes the most sense.