New York State Thruway

[kalvado]

It's a path. It connects to both sides. You decide what you want it to be.

Well, not really. If it is recreational - there needs to be a reasonable parking lot, preferably one on each side, to access the path. And some reasonable cleaning service.
If it is mostly transportation, a reasonable connection to street sidewalks on both sides is a must. Not to mention some bicycle accommodations.
If it is a gimmick to crazy urbanists without envisioned use, then so be it.

There is parking and connectivity on both sides, once it's done.

It is my understanding that all newly-constructed bridges now have to have provisions for all non-motorized transportation modes (i.e. pedestrians & bicycles) built in.

Which is a great progressive idea, as it removes barriers between neighborhoods, fights racial inequality and improves public health - but I still keep wondering how many people would be using 4 mile path next to a high traffic interstate. It would take about more than an hour to walk one way, which makes pedestrian commute across the bridge pretty impractical; and high traffic reduces recreational value of the path. Bike commute... maybe.
But my personal impression is that a couple tens, maybe hundreds million dollars are just being wasted.

[Alps]

It's a path. It connects to both sides. You decide what you want it to be.

Well, not really. If it is recreational - there needs to be a reasonable parking lot, preferably one on each side, to access the path. And some reasonable cleaning service.
If it is mostly transportation, a reasonable connection to street sidewalks on both sides is a must. Not to mention some bicycle accommodations.
If it is a gimmick to crazy urbanists without envisioned use, then so be it.

There is parking and connectivity on both sides, once it's done.

It is my understanding that all newly-constructed bridges now have to have provisions for all non-motorized transportation modes (i.e. pedestrians & bicycles) built in.

Which is a great progressive idea, as it removes barriers between neighborhoods, fights racial inequality and improves public health - but I still keep wondering how many people would be using 4 mile path next to a high traffic interstate. It would take about more than an hour to walk one way, which makes pedestrian commute across the bridge pretty impractical; and high traffic reduces recreational value of the path. Bike commute... maybe.
But my personal impression is that a couple tens, maybe hundreds million dollars are just being wasted.

Not at all true. The extra bridge being used for the walkway was totally needed to be able to stage construction of the new EB span. By getting both directions onto the new WB span, they could then deal with the approaches, leaving only the truss that's now a problem. Even if you didn't have pedestrian accommodations, the new bridge would have been at least 86' wide to provide 7 lanes similar to the old configuration. Now it's 96'. The extra 10' isn't a whole lot in the end.

[empirestate]

It is my understanding that the name Tappan Zee existed decades before the original bridge was built and refers to the general region at the Hudson.

Correct. Tappan Zee has been the name of the area for 200-400 years. Tappan is a corruption of the Lenape name for the local tribe and the region, Zee is Dutch for "sea".

Specifically, "Tappan Zee" is the name of that wide part of the Hudson (as I'm pretty sure we've mentioned earlier in this thread, come to think of it).

[froggie]

Which is a great progressive idea, as it removes barriers between neighborhoods, fights racial inequality and improves public health - but I still keep wondering how many people would be using 4 mile path next to a high traffic interstate. It would take about more than an hour to walk one way, which makes pedestrian commute across the bridge pretty impractical; and high traffic reduces recreational value of the path. Bike commute... maybe.
But my personal impression is that a couple tens, maybe hundreds million dollars are just being wasted.

If experience in the Twin Cities with parallel bike/ped paths on major bridges is any indication (MnDOT's been adding them for over 30 years), they'll get used at least by bikes.  Granted, the bridges in Minnesota aren't nearly the length of the Tappan Zee, but I can easily see bikes and longer-distance runners using the new path on the Tappan Zee.

From what I recall of the bridge cost breakdown, the cost to add the bike/ped path was basically a rounding error when compared to the new Tappan Zee's total cost.  Nevermind that, as both cl94 and Alps mentioned, they needed the extra westbound bridge width for traffic staging to finish the eastbound span.

[kalvado]

Not at all true. The extra bridge being used for the walkway was totally needed to be able to stage construction of the new EB span. By getting both directions onto the new WB span, they could then deal with the approaches, leaving only the truss that's now a problem. Even if you didn't have pedestrian accommodations, the new bridge would have been at least 86' wide to provide 7 lanes similar to the old configuration. Now it's 96'. The extra 10' isn't a whole lot in the end.

Spare room for construction is an interesting argument.. I still wonder if that was "because we have that room anyway", or other ideas were on the table?

[SignBridge]

You mean something smart like maybe a two-track rail line over the bridge?

[froggie]

^ As I understand it, the rail line would have gone in the median.  Supposedly, the new bridges were designed and built to be "rail-ready", but I'm not completely convinced of that.

[kalvado]

^ As I understand it, the rail line would have gone in the median.  Supposedly, the new bridges were designed and built to be "rail-ready", but I'm not completely convinced of that.

As far as I remember, option of rail line was eliminated at design stage as too expensive. Paying off the thing is difficult as it is.
And I doubt it would be on a median. There are two independent bridges, no median per se. Besides, rail has to connect to existing line, running along the shoreline of Hudson under the bridge, so disentangling rail from the center of the bridge would be interesting.

[PHLBOS]

Cross-posted from the New York thread: Demolition of the (old) Tappan Zee Bridge postponed, no new date set as of yet.

"The sustained winds caused delays to the preparatory work of the planned demolition operation," read a statement from Tappan Zee Constructors. "We appreciate the patience of the local community, and once we have rescheduled the operation we will provide an update."

[vdeane]

Assuming the wind doesn't demolish the old bridge first.

[PHLBOS]

Tuesday Jan. 15 is now the rescheduled date; however, the time has not yet been determined.

[Buffaboy]

Apparently speed limit changes during snow events will be enforced by VMSes now?

[Ben114]

Tuesday Jan. 15 is now the rescheduled date; however, the time has not yet been determined.

It will be in the morning.

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

Apparently speed limit changes during snow events will be enforced by VMSes now?

I don't care to dig through the VTL or Thruway regulations right now, but that seems highly questionable from the legal side.

[machias]

Apparently speed limit changes during snow events will be enforced by VMSes now?

I don't care to dig through the VTL or Thruway regulations right now, but that seems highly questionable from the legal side.

The VMSes are way too few and scattered for them to enforce a speed limit that way, unless they're sending out crews to put up a bunch of portable units in a snow storm. Too many ideas for highway modifications coming from downstate. Upstate (north and west of Albany) is a much different beast than downstate.

[webny99]

Downstate (south and east of Albany) is a much different beast than upstate.

FTFY

[RobbieL2415]

Apparently speed limit changes during snow events will be enforced by VMSes now?

I've always wondered. Does that need to be codified in the motor vehicle statutes to be enforced? Or does just stating the speed limit on even non-compliant signage count?

[froggie]

^ From the MUTCD:

A changeable message sign that changes the speed limit for traffic and ambient conditions may be installed provided that the appropriate speed limit is displayed at the proper times.

It's an option in the MUTCD that changeable message signs can be used to show speed limits.  So unless there's a state law to the contrary, it counts.

[kalvado]

I assume this is about big VMSes:

Thruway guidelines specifically mention "changeable message signs" along with stationary and portable VMSes.
Another interesting question is if the next regular speed limit sign overrides VMS message - which is the normal approach for speed limit signs.

[thenetwork]

I assume this is about big VMSes:

Thruway guidelines specifically mention "changeable message signs" along with stationary and portable VMSes.
Another interesting question is if the next regular speed limit sign overrides VMS message - which is the normal approach for speed limit signs.

That could be interesting in court if contested.  I would say that the speed limit posted on a VMS like the one above) could be taken as an advisory speed and as not an override to the actual posted speed limit (which would likely be the normal 24/7/365 signs). 

Now if the VMS speed limit matches temporary speed limit signs which replace/cover up permanent signs *or* match changeable/digital speed limit signs on the ground, then I can see that VMS as being enforceable.

[RobbieL2415]

^ From the MUTCD:

A changeable message sign that changes the speed limit for traffic and ambient conditions may be installed provided that the appropriate speed limit is displayed at the proper times.

It's an option in the MUTCD that changeable message signs can be used to show speed limits.  So unless there's a state law to the contrary, it counts.

There would have to be a state law establishing any compliant sign as having the force of law to begin with.

[webny99]

Had the pleasure of driving Rochester > Buffalo on the Thruway twice this weekend, once yesterday and once today. Traffic was much lighter yesterday than usual, while traffic today was much more comparable to such. Overall, traffic was reasonable - we managed to bypass a major accident near Angola so there were no significant slowdowns.

[empirestate]

Had the pleasure of driving Rochester > Buffalo on the Thruway twice this weekend, once yesterday and once today. Traffic was much lighter yesterday than a usual Sunday afternoon, while traffic today was much more comparable to such. Overall, traffic was reasonable - we managed to bypass a major accident near Angola so there were no significant slowdowns.

I should think that all Rochester > Buffalo trips would bypass Angola...

[webny99]

I should think that all Rochester > Buffalo trips would bypass Angola...

Yes, that is correct 

I might clarify that Rochester > Buffalo was the only stretch I did on both days.
I was in Canada earlier in the weekend, and then did a separate trip the Buffalo area (ending up at Evangola State Park) on Monday.

[WNYroadgeek]

Huge news here. Cuomo has announced that the entire Thruway system will go cashless by the end of next year: https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-selection-design-build-team-install-cashless-tolling-nys-thruway-end