US 69 Muskogee Bypass

[sparker]

That rail line would probably be decommissioned South of Anadarko if not for the combination the Dolese rock quarry and Fort Sill farther down South.
<snip>
So I guess if it wasn't for the rock quarry out by Medicine Park that rail line would be dug up even farther North.

Dolese sends 3-4 trains a week from their Richards Spur quarry to other Dolese yards (Enid, Yukon, and their Midtown OKC location). I'm sure it would be a big blow if UP was allowed to decommission that line. Shipping that much rock by truck over those distances is quite a bit more expensive.

All the UP lines in that area were old Rock Island tracks (their main "spine" N-S line followed US 81 throughout OK).  Most of those lines had deteriorated when the company was divided up back in 1980 and sold to other companies -- including, at the time, SP and MKT, which renamed the line up US 81 as the "Oklahoma, Kansas, and Texas" subsidiary.  However, MKT wasn't particularly wealthy either, and maintenance was invariably "deferred" until unavoidable.  So it's likely that the cluster of UP spur lines in SW OK isn't particularly amenable to heavy volumes of traffic; short movements and shorter trains like the "rock runs" from quarry to material yards would be a common usage of those tracks.  But now that UP owns 2 of the 4 major N-S lines through OK (the old MKT main along US 69 is the other), it's likely that all their in-state lines, including the limited-usage spurs, are seeing somewhat better maintenance than before UP purchased MKT back in 1988. 

Yeah, I would prefer the rail line be kept open. I don't like being anywhere near trucks hauling gravel or any other similar load on the highways. Even if the loads are covered stray rocks go flying. They're great at putting dings into vehicles, chipping paint and damaging windshields.

It's a sure bet if Dolese closed down that particular quarry those rails would be dug up, sold and recycled in short order.

It's UP -- they'd take up the rails and store them in their corporate yards for use on light-duty spurs elsewhere; they've been doing that on old SP spurs out here for the 23 years since they bought SP.

[txstateends]

Too bad these RR tracks don't parallel US 69     

[sparker]

Too bad these RR tracks don't parallel US 69     

Nevertheless -- the UP tracks that do parallel US 69 along its entire length from TX north to I-44 are former M-K-T (Missouri-Kansas-Texas) tracks -- the company that bought the old Rock Island (under discussion by the forum's OK contingent) lines in the west-central part of the state.  Those tracks are the most direct rail line from DFW to Kansas City -- but they also tend to impinge on the US 69 alignment; in typical rail fashion, they sit on the most favorable and lowest-gradient pathway (understandable, since they got there first!).  But it underscores the importance of that particular corridor; and though its location in the Muskogee area (it goes right through downtown east of the present US 69 corridor) doesn't have a direct impact on the bypass plans -- like any transportation facility through an urbanized area, UP is legally obliged to slow down its rail traffic in order to enhance the safety of the many grade crossings.  But that's about all the interaction between Muskogee and the rail line there is -- trains passing through; they don't have the opportunity to stop and grab a burger & fries from a locomotive cab.  But truck traffic is different -- a city such as Muskogee will rationalize that a through route such as US 69 can and has been monetized simply by requiring that traffic to slow down and potentially stop for goods & services.  It's the same rationale used a thousand or so miles east in Breezewood -- as long as traffic is slowing down anyway, there's a considerably better chance they'll grab that burger/fries -- and even maybe stick around in local lodging if the timing is right.  The city has what amounts to a captive audience with each member of that audience a potential source of revenue.  And, like the smaller towns to the south along US 69, they'll fight to maintain that dynamic regardless of concepts of (relatively) free & efficient travel.  They can't draw revenue from the railroad unless it elects to locate a yard or transfer facility in the area, but they sure can from road traffic! 

[rte66man]

Yeah, I would prefer the rail line be kept open. I don't like being anywhere near trucks hauling gravel or any other similar load on the highways. Even if the loads are covered stray rocks go flying. They're great at putting dings into vehicles, chipping paint and damaging windshields.

It's a sure bet if Dolese closed down that particular quarry those rails would be dug up, sold and recycled in short order.

That will not happen in any of our lifetimes.  According to their website, they opened this quarry before statehood.  According the the USGS, it is their largest quarry by volume. You can see from historical aerials how large it has become over the years.  Land records show they could mine there for at least another 100 years. 

The cost of opening a new quarry in this day and age would preclude them from making an easy decision.  Because of the rail component, they could likely not replace that production from either their Cooperton or Davis quarry.  as there is no rail anywhere near either location.  There is a very substandard FarmRail track 15 miles west near Roosevelt but the max car weights on that line are about 230000 lbs. Getting a rail spur from the BNSF main to their Davis quarry would be cost prohibitive (bridge across the Washita and another across I35). 

[sparker]

^^^^^^^^^
If UP is turning a profit due to quarry operations, they'll keep the existing line open to at least minimal requirements for as long as that fiscal situation remains stable.   

[bugo]

There are foods painted with gold shavings. These foods cost hundreds of dollars per serving. People welcome this. As for exercise, they only want to walk as far as they need to in order to reach the plate of gold foods.

I bet In_Correct's shit stinks from eating all that gold.

[Bobby5280]

It's the same rationale used a thousand or so miles east in Breezewood -- as long as traffic is slowing down anyway, there's a considerably better chance they'll grab that burger/fries -- and even maybe stick around in local lodging if the timing is right.  The city has what amounts to a captive audience with each member of that audience a potential source of revenue.  And, like the smaller towns to the south along US 69, they'll fight to maintain that dynamic regardless of concepts of (relatively) free & efficient travel.

As annoying as Breezewood is for travelers that road trip hiccup on I-70 involves one traffic signal, a quarter mile of surface street driving and a non-signaled right turn to get on the Penn Turnpike. Going through the toll plaza another mile down the road could actually take more time depending on the traffic level.

It's about 9 miles from the end of the US-69 freeway on the South side of Muskogee to the Arkansas River bridges North of town. There's over 30 at-grade street intersections (8 with 4-way traffic signals) and lots of driveways along US-69 through Muskogee. Plus there's even more at-grade intersections and another traffic signal before US-69 reaches the Muskogee Turnpike. That's a significantly larger "Breezewood" experience. And then there's plenty of other intersections and traffic lights in all the towns lining US-69 before the highway finally reaches Big Cabin.

I understand the rationale of locals of not wanting a bypass to take potential business around rather than thru town. But I think those people are overlooking 2 possible benefits for Muskogee. First, a bypass would get a bunch of that heavy truck traffic off of locally maintained streets. ODOT (and the federal government to some degree) might provide funding to maintain the US-69 main lanes. But that's not the case for all those connecting streets that heavy trucks are bound to use too. There is definitely a wear and tear penalty on local infrastructure in courting that highway traffic. The second benefit to building that bypass and ultimately upgrading US-69 to Interstate quality from the Red River to Big Cabin is it would make Muskogee a more attractive location for various kinds of businesses, particularly any sort of distribution facility. More long distance traffic would run through the Muskogee area if it wasn't a bunch of stop and go nonsense along the way. Aside from the heavy trucking crowd most long distance travelers prefer to stay on the Interstates, even if they have to go well out of their way to do it.

[sparker]

Question:  Is there a chance that the Muskogee Bypass could be built as a tolled facility?  If so, that would leave the existing service-laden stretch of US 69 as the prime "shunpiking" corridor.  Also -- if extended north to I-44, that would effectively address the issue -- at least concerning the northern reaches -- of how to finance upgrades of the US 69 corridor (a situation covered in another thread in this region).  Such an extension could either track US 69 right up to Big Cabin -- or conceivably strike out due north from its Muskogee path to intersect I-44 at or near the Rogers/Mayes county line (requiring about 15 miles less construction).  Again, existing us 69 would be the shunpiking route of choice; giving roadside businesses in Wagoner and Pryor a decent chance of retaining some level of revenue.   And since OK has a 60+ year acceptance of its toll roads, branching one off just down to south of Muskogee wouldn't be a stretch.  I know the concept of a toll road along the full length of US 69 was shot down decades ago; but this one would be more limited in scope, not to mention mileage.  Just a thought............

[Scott5114]

Theoretically, there's nothing stopping it. But OTA would have to issue new revenue bonds to construct the turnpike–and just did that during the previous administration for the Driving Forward turnpikes. I'm guessing that if OTA tried to issue new bonds at the moment, they'd get really bad interest rates.

[Bobby5280]

There's a couple issues working against a toll road approach on US-69.

First, I don't think a toll road would work at all if nothing more than a Muskogee bypass was built. People would shun-pike that in droves unless the toll was dirt cheap. Even then with the trend going toward automated toll collections anyone without a PikePass would not like the extra surcharge involved with paying by license plate. I think a turnpike would only work if it was built as a significantly longer road, like from Muskogee up to Big Cabin.

Then there's the previous precedent of sorts in Oklahoma where the urbanized area of turnpikes were made "free." The short stretch of I-44 through Lawton is free, I-44 in OKC is free and the same is true for Tulsa. The Muskogee turnpike has 3 free exits in Muskogee. I think residents there would be expecting the same approach with the West-side US-69 bypass.

Finally, it's a rarity for a toll road to carry a US highway designation. US-412 is designated along the Cimarron Turnpike. But normally a US highway will leave an Interstate transitioning into a toll road. US-281, US-277 & US-62 do their best to avoid the H.E. Bailey turnpike between the Red River and OKC. They only multiplex with I-44 on the toll free segments. I think if a new turnpike was built from Muskogee up to Big Cabin the whole thing might have to be built on a new alignment rather than upgrading existing segments of US-69.

[rte66man]

Theoretically, there's nothing stopping it. But OTA would have to issue new revenue bonds to construct the turnpike–and just did that during the previous administration for the Driving Forward turnpikes. I'm guessing that if OTA tried to issue new bonds at the moment, they'd get really bad interest rates.

They are currently capped out on their bonding capacity.  They would have to retire some bonds before they could issue more.  And you are right, that would diminish their bond rating, resulting in higher interest rates.

[Plutonic Panda]

The bypass is mentioned but a new proposed ODOT project addresses US-69 through Muskogee:

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation (ODOT), in cooperation with the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), is proposing to improve US-69 from 0.48 miles north of US-64 East (Peak Boulevard), extending north 2.5 miles within the City of Muskogee. The purpose and need for this project is to provide operational improvements, including improvements to a pedestrian bridge (abandoned railroad overpass), extension of an existing bridge over Coody Creek, and reconstruction of the existing pavement. The existing US-69 highway is a primary commuter and truck route, and the proposed project is a continuation of ODOT's commitment to safety and operational efficiency.

ODOT has tasked a Consultant to develop alternatives for correcting the roadway deficiencies while taking into consideration construction costs, right-of-way and utility costs, and environmental constraints.

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/programs-and-projects/public-meetings-and-hearings/20201102.html

I can't remember where but I know somewhere with this project the proposed bypass was mentioned but I'm unsure what the status is of that.

Here are the alternatives:

[rte66man]

The bypass is mentioned but a new proposed ODOT project addresses US-69 through Muskogee:

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation (ODOT), in cooperation with the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), is proposing to improve US-69 from 0.48 miles north of US-64 East (Peak Boulevard), extending north 2.5 miles within the City of Muskogee. The purpose and need for this project is to provide operational improvements, including improvements to a pedestrian bridge (abandoned railroad overpass), extension of an existing bridge over Coody Creek, and reconstruction of the existing pavement. The existing US-69 highway is a primary commuter and truck route, and the proposed project is a continuation of ODOT's commitment to safety and operational efficiency.

ODOT has tasked a Consultant to develop alternatives for correcting the roadway deficiencies while taking into consideration construction costs, right-of-way and utility costs, and environmental constraints.

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/programs-and-projects/public-meetings-and-hearings/20201102.html

I can't remember where but I know somewhere with this project the proposed bypass was mentioned but I'm unsure what the status is of that.

https://www.muskogeepolitico.com/2019/04/odot-abandons-muskogee-bypass-plan.html
While not officially dead, it is in suspended animation.

[Plutonic Panda]

Thanks for the update. I'd love to see an Oklahoma highways plan that upgrades certain routes long distance to interstate quality roads like US-69 and US75. It would be nice to see more emphasis on this corridors. Just gotta find the money.

[Ned Weasel]

The bypass is mentioned but a new proposed ODOT project addresses US-69 through Muskogee:

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation (ODOT), in cooperation with the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), is proposing to improve US-69 from 0.48 miles north of US-64 East (Peak Boulevard), extending north 2.5 miles within the City of Muskogee. The purpose and need for this project is to provide operational improvements, including improvements to a pedestrian bridge (abandoned railroad overpass), extension of an existing bridge over Coody Creek, and reconstruction of the existing pavement. The existing US-69 highway is a primary commuter and truck route, and the proposed project is a continuation of ODOT's commitment to safety and operational efficiency.

ODOT has tasked a Consultant to develop alternatives for correcting the roadway deficiencies while taking into consideration construction costs, right-of-way and utility costs, and environmental constraints.

https://oklahoma.gov/odot/programs-and-projects/public-meetings-and-hearings/20201102.html

I can't remember where but I know somewhere with this project the proposed bypass was mentioned but I'm unsure what the status is of that.

Here are the alternatives:

I really hope they're talking about doing better access management with this.  I don't think the two-way left-turn lane should even be on the table; that portion of US 69 should be as divided and access-controlled as is feasible within the context.

[In_Correct]

At least the lanes would be wide enough.

[sparker]

Did I hear somebody say "Band-Aid"?  I suppose with all the rancor and reaction to the previous bypass concept, a "partial upgrade in place" is the best that can be expected from that venue.

[rte66man]

Did I hear somebody say "Band-Aid"?  I suppose with all the rancor and reaction to the previous bypass concept, a "partial upgrade in place" is the best that can be expected from that venue.

+1

It's a sop to the NIMBY crowd. Kick the can down the road on making a bypass decision. Revisit in 7-10 years when the traffic becomes even more intolerable.

[motorola870]

Did I hear somebody say "Band-Aid"?  I suppose with all the rancor and reaction to the previous bypass concept, a "partial upgrade in place" is the best that can be expected from that venue.

+1

It's a sop to the NIMBY crowd. Kick the can down the road on making a bypass decision. Revisit in 7-10 years when the traffic becomes even more intolerable.

Just build the bypass and don't allow at grade crossings. Not sure what these people feel they are accomplishing by doing nothing but ODOT should prepare for the inevitable that interstate 45 is extended to Tulsa. Texas is nearly done making US75 fully modern interstate grade from Dallas to the state line there have been some hints that there could be signing of I45 to Sherman or Denison eventually.

[sparker]

Did I hear somebody say "Band-Aid"?  I suppose with all the rancor and reaction to the previous bypass concept, a "partial upgrade in place" is the best that can be expected from that venue.

+1

It's a sop to the NIMBY crowd. Kick the can down the road on making a bypass decision. Revisit in 7-10 years when the traffic becomes even more intolerable.

Just build the bypass and don't allow at grade crossings. Not sure what these people feel they are accomplishing by doing nothing but ODOT should prepare for the inevitable that interstate 45 is extended to Tulsa. Texas is nearly done making US75 fully modern interstate grade from Dallas to the state line there have been some hints that there could be signing of I45 to Sherman or Denison eventually.

As I've reiterated several times, there's a codicil (Section 1174) in the 1991 ISTEA act that pre-approves US 69/75 and US 69 alone north of the Atoka split as an Interstate highway upon construction to appropriate standards as well as an application to that effect from ODOT.  However, that only covers the corridor from the TX state line to I-40 at Checotah; north from there is unaddressed by that legislation.  Any upgrade activity in TX to (ostensibly) extend I-45 north to the state line would put the ball squarely in OK's collective court.  But overcoming longstanding local objections (Stringtown, Atoka, etc.) while also cobbling up the funds to actually effect the necessary construction for freeway conversion plus upgrades of the existing freeways in Bryan County plus from McAlester north would be one of the more sizeable non-toll projects undertaken in OK in decades.  But doing so would likely be the only way to "kick-start" a revisited Muskogee bypass -- bring I-45 to within shouting distance and then wait for pressures from outside (truckers and other roadway users) and inside (locals having to deal with increased traffic issues on the current US 69 arterial) to boil over.  It's clear that self-interest is driving the Muskogee standpoint -- but that's a double-edged sword.  If I were making the decision within ODOT, I'd just call a "no-build" for the time being for the US 69 corridor and let the whole thing reach a boiling point as is.     

[Scott5114]

Problem is that just because something reaches a boiling point doesn't mean it will ever get addressed–SH-9 in Norman is at LOS D or E most of the day, with nary a peep from ODOT or the legislature on addressing it. Of course, if you look at the 2020 by-precinct election map for Cleveland County, you can see a possible explanation for that...

Welcome to Oklahoma politics!

[In_Correct]

No Hints At All. The Right Of Way is mostly there, but there are numerous bridges and ramps that must be upgraded in Sherman and Colbert. They should build bypasses around towns that want to be bypassed instead, and on completely different highways. It is taking too long for upgrades to happen. There should not even be feasibility studies done on towns that prevents improvements.

[Bobby5280]

There is no doubt at all US-69/75 from North of Dallas up thru Sherman and Denison to the Red River will be fully upgraded to Interstate standards. Not only that, but the highway seems on track to be expanded to 3 lanes in each direction, or even 4x4 in some spots (like in Sherman). The Dallas North Tollway is planned to dove-tail into US-69/75 on the North side of Denison, just short of the river.

In Oklahoma, Interstate quality upgrades of US-69/75 are a sure thing from the Red River up to the US-70 bypass on the South side of Durant. The freeway upgrade in Calera is planned. That will leave some minor upgrades to do in Colbert and some frontage roads to build. The existing freeway in Durant can be upgraded without taking any new ROW.

North of Durant is the big problem. Folks in Atoka and Stringtown do not want anything to be done with US-69/75 other than routine maintenance on the existing road. They're not interested in freeway upgrades through the two towns and they absolutely do not want their towns to be bypassed. Catch 22 situation. The only thing that helps the situation is that over the long term both towns are aging out and dying. Who in their right mind would want to move there? Anyone who grew up in either town would have been dying to escape for better opportunity elsewhere.

In the nearer term ODOT just has to do what upgrades it can on US-69. In McAlester the freeway upgrade on the George Nigh Expressway is very do-able. They can extend that down across the Indian Nation Turnpike interchange and to the main entrance of the McAlester Army Ammunition Plant. Military installations do like having freeway access.

It's kind of a Chicken vs Egg thing. But if TxDOT signs US-69/75 as I-45 up to the Red River then it will be very possible for US-69 to be signed as I-45 from Checotah (and I-40) down thru McAlester and the McAlester AAP. The North TX segment of I-45 could then wind up being signed up to Durant once the upgrades in Calera and Colbert are done. That situation would leave a very obvious gap for I-45 in-state with Atoka and Stringtown square in the middle of that gap. Blocking in those backward towns with segments of I-45 to the North and South would create a good bit of political pressure. The same approach could be applied to the folks in Muskogee. Just start building another segment of I-45 stemming off I-44 in Big Cabin and moving South. The entire process will likely take more than a decade or more to complete. Hell, by then Atoka and Stringtown could be mostly ghost towns. By then the opposition to upgrading US-69/75 into a freeway there could be pushing up daisies.

[bugo]

North of Durant is the big problem. Folks in Atoka and Stringtown do not want anything to be done with US-69/75 other than routine maintenance on the existing road. They're not interested in freeway upgrades through the two towns and they absolutely do not want their towns to be bypassed. Catch 22 situation. The only thing that helps the situation is that over the long term both towns are aging out and dying. Who in their right mind would want to move there? Anyone who grew up in either town would have been dying to escape for better opportunity elsewhere.

These towns are indeed hemorrhaging population, but the pandemic could present a golden opportunity to get folks to move to places like this. A lot of jobs are now remote, and if you have a job where you never have to go into an office, you can theoretically live anywhere with a good broadband connection. These small towns could market themselves as an alternative to living in a big city for those who work at home. Rural areas need to focus on improving the infrastructure and bringing high quality high speed internet to the boonies. Rural areas could be even more attractive for some remote workers who don't want to live in a city. I'm specifically thinking about the Ouachita Mountains in southern Le Flore County and northern McCurtain County in southeastern Oklahoma. But I don't expect them to take advantage of this opportunity and they will continue the decline.

[triplemultiplex]

North of Durant is the big problem. Folks in Atoka and Stringtown do not want anything to be done with US-69/75 other than routine maintenance on the existing road. They're not interested in freeway upgrades through the two towns and they absolutely do not want their towns to be bypassed. Catch 22 situation. The only thing that helps the situation is that over the long term both towns are aging out and dying. Who in their right mind would want to move there? Anyone who grew up in either town would have been dying to escape for better opportunity elsewhere.

These towns are indeed hemorrhaging population, but the pandemic could present a golden opportunity to get folks to move to places like this. A lot of jobs are now remote, and if you have a job where you never have to go into an office, you can theoretically live anywhere with a good broadband connection. These small towns could market themselves as an alternative to living in a big city for those who work at home. Rural areas need to focus on improving the infrastructure and bringing high quality high speed internet to the boonies. Rural areas could be even more attractive for some remote workers who don't want to live in a city. I'm specifically thinking about the Ouachita Mountains in southern Le Flore County and northern McCurtain County in southeastern Oklahoma. But I don't expect them to take advantage of this opportunity and they will continue the decline.

If small towns want to lure the new wave of telecommuters, they are going to need more than just good internet and no traffic.  They need stuff to do.  They'll need parks and other public lands, restaurants that don't have drive thrus, and a place to get a beer that is fun rather than depressing.  Might help to have a grocery store because driving half an hour or more to get food is annoying.