Best and worst states at building freeways

[bugo]

Texas is quite good at building freeways. They build proper 4 and 5 level stacks where two freeways cross (except for the places where they punt and build volleyballs, even though these interchanges are upgradable in the future) and when they build at-grade expressways, they often build them with room in the median for freeway lanes in the future.

Arkansas builds decent freeways, but they don't do a good job on expressways. Instead of building proper freeways or divided expressways, they tend to build ghetto 5 lane undivided "Arkansas Freeways" which are less safe than divided highways. In at least one instance, an "Arkansas Freeway" has been upgraded on the cheap to a divided highway by placing Jersey barriers in the center turning lane.

Oklahoma builds decent rural freeways, but they are still stuck in a time when cloverleafs were considered acceptable. They don't often upgrade cloverleafs to proper interchanges even when the cloverleafs are functionally obsolete and are bottlenecks that cause traffic jams. Back in the 1970s, they built freeways with tons of left exits and entrances and used substandard designs that would have been obsolete in the 1940s. For example, I-244 in Tulsa is 15.75 miles long and has 23 left exits and entrances. That is just plain piss poor design. There are nearly 1 1/2 left exits or entrances per mile on this freeway. The downtown section, part of the IDL (Inner Dispersal Loop) is terrible and quite dangerous. I hate driving downtown because the IDL is so scary. Why they ever thought that these interchanges were acceptable is beyond me.

[mvak36]

Among the states I have driven in a lot, I really like the Kansas freeways (when the funds aren't being raided by the state govt). Iowa and Nebraska's freeways are usually pretty good. Missouri isn't too bad considering how many roads they have to maintain. As posted earlier, IDOT's freeways aren't the greatest but the toll roads in Chicago are pretty good.

[wolfiefrick]

Living in Missouri, I have to say I love our freeways. They're not perfect, but MODOT does a damn good job at maintaining what they have, especially in St. Louis. They've recently been stepping up their game in repairing old freeways instead of building new ones. The "new I-64," which isn't "new" per se given it was finished nearly a decade ago, is very nice, and they're extending the new concrete roadway all the way to downtown in some cases (the double decker route of I-64 that goes through downtown St. Louis is now a concrete roadway on both decks) and they're rebuilding a number of overpasses along the I-44 corridor. It's a far cry from what IDOT is doing across the river.

[sparker]

Texas is quite good at building freeways. They build proper 4 and 5 level stacks where two freeways cross (except for the places where they punt and build volleyballs, even though these interchanges are upgradable in the future if substantial private development isn't deployed around the interchange's perimeter) and when they build at-grade expressways, they often build them with room in the median for freeway lanes in the future.

FTFY.  Example: I-35 @ US 190 in Temple.

[bugo]

I-44 east of Springfield is awful.

[wolfiefrick]

I-44 east of Springfield is awful.

Agreed. I can't stand driving it as it is now. Thankfully I usually commute between my mom's house and my dad's house on I-64. MODOT is reconstructing a lot of the overpasses on I-44 through STL and it makes it hell to drive, but I hope it'll be worth it once everything's done.

[sparker]

I-44 east of Springfield is awful.

Agreed. I can't stand driving it as it is now. Thankfully I usually commute between my mom's house and my dad's house on I-64. MODOT is reconstructing a lot of the overpasses on I-44 through STL and it makes it hell to drive, but I hope it'll be worth it once everything's done.

IIRC, the section immediately east of Springfield was one of the first sections of I-44 to be built circa 1958-59 (I traveled it as a kid the summer of '60); the last time I was on I-44 heading back from St. Louis, about 2000, the entire route seemed to be showing its age even back then.  The pavement between Lebanon and Springfield was virtually crumbling; in places the shoulders had large chunks broken off the outer edges -- and this was 18 years ago -- I would imagine some spot repairs have been done in the interim if not a full repave.  Nevertheless, the problems likely go down all the way to the ballast; that segment may need more than the usual asphalt cap; it may need a total from-the-ground-up rebuild (which MODOT can ill afford!).  Nevertheless, it's not atypical of situations all over the system; strapped states can't afford to do much to keep the system in exemplary condition.  While both age and weather may make the MO situation worse, they're not in that particular boat alone! 

[wolfiefrick]

I-44 east of Springfield is awful.

Agreed. I can't stand driving it as it is now. Thankfully I usually commute between my mom's house and my dad's house on I-64. MODOT is reconstructing a lot of the overpasses on I-44 through STL and it makes it hell to drive, but I hope it'll be worth it once everything's done.

IIRC, the section immediately east of Springfield was one of the first sections of I-44 to be built circa 1958-59 (I traveled it as a kid the summer of '60); the last time I was on I-44 heading back from St. Louis, about 2000, the entire route seemed to be showing its age even back then.  The pavement between Lebanon and Springfield was virtually crumbling; in places the shoulders had large chunks broken off the outer edges -- and this was 18 years ago -- I would imagine some spot repairs have been done in the interim if not a full repave.  Nevertheless, the problems likely go down all the way to the ballast; that segment may need more than the usual asphalt cap; it may need a total from-the-ground-up rebuild (which MODOT can ill afford!).  Nevertheless, it's not atypical of situations all over the system; strapped states can't afford to do much to keep the system in exemplary condition.  While both age and weather may make the MO situation worse, they're not in that particular boat alone!

I think you're right; I've seen a number of photos of newly-designated I-44 from the late '50s. I find myself driving out west on I-44 to Pacific/Wildwood (I have some family around that area) and even the drive there can be rough. The pavement has definitely fallen prey to spot repair to the point where the surface of the road is unbearably coarse. MODOT will struggle to figure out how to fix that mess completely; they repaved some parts of it immediately east of I-270 but not much else. It just needs a lot of work.

[ilpt4u]

I'm going to hate on Indiana...

This whole I-69 project/Bloomington area has been a giant fail in how it was bid out and the schedule of the build.

Basically, actually failing at building a new Freeway

To their credit, InDOT has reasserted control of the project, and is now making good progress towards the completion of this section

Sometimes, the Public Sector really is better suited for a job vs the Private Sector

[thenetwork]

Ohio has been good at building new freeways, although the time it took to create and/or finish some of the freeways could've been done sooner.

Colorado, OTOH, did a terrible job.  Take pretty much all of the freeways in the Denver Metro area, which is growing like weeds in a vacant lot:  All were underbuilt and now they are playing catch-up in widening them -- mostly by making the additional lanes HOT lanes. 

The last two freeway links to be completed around Denver, I-270 and I-76 AT and WEST of I-25, were built with just 2 lanes in each direction. 

[DJStephens]

I-44 east of Springfield is awful.

Agreed. I can't stand driving it as it is now. Thankfully I usually commute between my mom's house and my dad's house on I-64. MODOT is reconstructing a lot of the overpasses on I-44 through STL and it makes it hell to drive, but I hope it'll be worth it once everything's done.

IIRC, the section immediately east of Springfield was one of the first sections of I-44 to be built circa 1958-59 (I traveled it as a kid the summer of '60); the last time I was on I-44 heading back from St. Louis, about 2000, the entire route seemed to be showing its age even back then.  The pavement between Lebanon and Springfield was virtually crumbling; in places the shoulders had large chunks broken off the outer edges -- and this was 18 years ago -- I would imagine some spot repairs have been done in the interim if not a full repave.  Nevertheless, the problems likely go down all the way to the ballast; that segment may need more than the usual asphalt cap; it may need a total from-the-ground-up rebuild (which MODOT can ill afford!).  Nevertheless, it's not atypical of situations all over the system; strapped states can't afford to do much to keep the system in exemplary condition.  While both age and weather may make the MO situation worse, they're not in that particular boat alone!

I think you're right; I've seen a number of photos of newly-designated I-44 from the late '50s. I find myself driving out west on I-44 to Pacific/Wildwood (I have some family around that area) and even the drive there can be rough. The pavement has definitely fallen prey to spot repair to the point where the surface of the road is unbearably coarse. MODOT will struggle to figure out how to fix that mess completely; they repaved some parts of it immediately east of I-270 but not much else. It just needs a lot of work.

Appears as if the shoulder in the vintage I-44/US-66 picture is simply uncompacted millings.   The proximity of the bridge piers and the lack of protection is visible in the background.  Unfortunate that the desire to (or obsession) to decertify US-66 was pursued.  It could be been duplexed along with it's replacement Interstate in most areas, and been paired with the Business Interstate loop through towns and cities.   

[SSR_317]

I'm going to hate on Indiana...

This whole I-69 project/Bloomington area has been a giant fail in how it was bid out and the schedule of the build.

Basically, actually failing at building a new Freeway

To their credit, InDOT has reasserted control of the project, and is now making good progress towards the completion of this section

Sometimes, the Public Sector really is better suited for a job vs the Private Sector

You'll get no argument from THIS Hoosier!

These so-called "public-private partnerships" (P3s) are rarely a good idea, but politicians are fond of them because they can "reward" their campaign contributors with lucrative projects at public expense (with all too often little to no oversight or public input). Even if that failed private venture had delivered the upgrade of SR 37 to I-69 between Bloomington & Martinsville on time, does anyone really believe that private entity would've spend one dime on its proper maintenance (Including timely snow removal) going forward? Not if interfered with their profits! So glad the state came to its senses in terminating that failed P3 agreement and taking the project management & future maintenance back over itself. And the up side of this fiasco is that I-69 SIU 3 Section 6 (just to the north of there) will go forward under the traditional model - with INDOT in change, contracting the work out to legitimate private sector firms with proven track records, while insuring the necessary oversight is in place.

I'm not a believer in many conspiracy theories, but one might make a case that this particular P3 was set up to fail intentionally, as a "punishment" to the people of the Bloomington area, which was a hotbed of opposition the the entire Indy to Evansville via Bloomington freeway routing for many years. I don't personally believe this to be the case, but it is kinda ironic that the only section of the project that has had such major problems is in that particular area.

[Revive 755]

I-44 east of Springfield is awful.

Agreed. I can't stand driving it as it is now. Thankfully I usually commute between my mom's house and my dad's house on I-64. MODOT is reconstructing a lot of the overpasses on I-44 through STL and it makes it hell to drive, but I hope it'll be worth it once everything's done.

IIRC, the section immediately east of Springfield was one of the first sections of I-44 to be built circa 1958-59 (I traveled it as a kid the summer of '60); the last time I was on I-44 heading back from St. Louis, about 2000, the entire route seemed to be showing its age even back then.  The pavement between Lebanon and Springfield was virtually crumbling; in places the shoulders had large chunks broken off the outer edges -- and this was 18 years ago -- I would imagine some spot repairs have been done in the interim if not a full repave.  Nevertheless, the problems likely go down all the way to the ballast; that segment may need more than the usual asphalt cap; it may need a total from-the-ground-up rebuild (which MODOT can ill afford!).

There have been a few spot reconstructions on I-44.  About 10 years ago now the section through Eureka was rebuilt from the subgrade up, and I seem to recall a rebuild of the westbound lanes near Cuba.

[Buffaboy]

NYS can't even upgrade NY 17 to I-86, let alone build new highways/freeways. The last freeway that I can recall personally being built from scratch is the U.S. 219 extension, a paltry 4 mile upgrade.

Maintenance is hit or miss. The Thruway is in immaculate conditions, while I-88 for example (from what I've heard here) is a mess. Parkways are also abysmal, and I can't speak for downstate at all, even though I wish I could.

[webny99]

The last freeway that I can recall personally being built from scratch is the U.S. 219 extension, a paltry 4 mile upgrade.

There have been two other new freeway projects in the last decade; NY's portion of I-99 from Presho to the PA Line (6 miles) and I-781 (4 miles). Prospect Mountain and the new Tappan Zee bridge are both noteworthy infrastructure projects, involving new construction per se but not a new route designation.

On the other hand, the list of long-overdue projects is much more extensive. Completion of I-86, completion of the US 219 freeway, extensions of I-990 and NY 531, improvements to (if not freeway bypasses of) the US 20A, US 11, NY 13 and NY 104 corridors, to name a few.

NY doesn't seem to consider the four-laning rural of State Routes, as has become routine in other states. This should be considered more often; NY 104 between Williamson and Wolcott is one example of a super-2 with plenty of right-of-way that couldn't be too expensive to widen.

[RobbieL2415]

NYS can't even upgrade NY 17 to I-86, let alone build new highways/freeways. The last freeway that I can recall personally being built from scratch is the U.S. 219 extension, a paltry 4 mile upgrade.

Maintenance is hit or miss. The Thruway is in immaculate conditions, while I-88 for example (from what I've heard here) is a mess. Parkways are also abysmal, and I can't speak for downstate at all, even though I wish I could.

Im guessing it had to do with what DOT region you're in. On the contrary I think 75% of NYS parkways are in good shape. Robert Moses SP and the north end of the TSP are the only two stretches that i know need some love.

[webny99]

On the contrary I think 75% of NYS parkways are in good shape. Robert Moses SP and the north end of the TSP are the only two stretches that i know need some love.

Lake Ontario State Parkway west of Hamlin Beach needs a lot more than love. It's in a state of utter disrepair, to the point of being undriveable, though there has been supposed repair work going on (and a long-term eastbound closure, if I recall correctly) for the past several summers.

Fortunately, the LOSP (as with many state parkways, the Taconic being the notable exception) doesn't provide a crucial connection to the motoring public. It is most used by those looking for a scenic summer drive, and hardly ever used by necessary long-distance traffic. What little of that there is can choose between the smoother and more straightforward NY 18 and NY 104 corridors.

[Rothman]

I am pretty sure there have been a couple of recent projects on the LOSP.  Unfortunately, I will not be able to confirm until I return from vacation on the 16th.

[bugo]

Was I-44 ever signed on what is now Route Z through the Hooker Cut?

[vdeane]

My understanding is that the LOSP had a paving project last year from Rochester to NY 19 and then this year from NY 19 to NY 237.  Nothing planned west of their as far as I know.

[Bobby5280]

Oklahoma builds decent rural freeways, but they are still stuck in a time when cloverleafs were considered acceptable. They don't often upgrade cloverleafs to proper interchanges even when the cloverleafs are functionally obsolete and are bottlenecks that cause traffic jams. Back in the 1970s, they built freeways with tons of left exits and entrances and used substandard designs that would have been obsolete in the 1940s. For example, I-244 in Tulsa is 15.75 miles long and has 23 left exits and entrances. That is just plain piss poor design. There are nearly 1 1/2 left exits or entrances per mile on this freeway. The downtown section, part of the IDL (Inner Dispersal Loop) is terrible and quite dangerous. I hate driving downtown because the IDL is so scary. Why they ever thought that these interchanges were acceptable is beyond me.

It kind of sucks that Oklahoma is right next door to Texas. Pretty much anything Texas is doing right with building their freeways just shows how Oklahoma is doing it wrong.

Oklahoma likes building cloverleaf interchanges because they are cheap compared to the cost of a 4 or 5 level direct-connect stack interchange. Oklahoma has no true stack interchanges in its freeway/turnpike system. The nearest thing to it is the I-40 & I-44 interchange in OKC. Two interchanges along I-244 in downtown Tulsa have no cloverleaf ramps, but the ramp geometry has some ramps turning so tight they might as well be cloverleaf ramps!

Probably my biggest gripe by far with Oklahoma is the state is laughably, pathetically, stupidly BAD at planning for the future. One good example is the Kilpatrick Turnpike extension from I-40 on South via a very curvy alignment to merely Airport Road. This extension should have gone directly South along Sara Road down to I-44 to meet up with the H.E. Bailey Turnpike extension and then go East to I-35. That would have been the correct thing to do. If this road building situation had been in Texas it would have been executed properly.

Long ago Texas got into the habit of securing future freeway corridors by way of building surface streets with wide medians or taking other steps acquiring ROW well in advance. Oklahoma has hardly any examples of this kind of future-proof planning, if there are any examples at all. Texas isn't perfect by any stretch. Certain cities have some difficult road planning issues. For instance in Austin it's pretty obvious US-290 will need to be upgraded to a freeway completely out of the Western fringes of metro Austin and over to I-10. It's not going to be easy to do that. But TX DOT still may get the job done.

Meanwhile here in Oklahoma we can't seem to do squat. They've been working on the I-44/I-235/Broadway Extension freeway interchange upgrade project for a full decade now. And they're still years away from being finished with it. The end result will feature two damned cloverleaf ramps along with other more direct-connect ramps.

Overall, no states are perfect at planning and building freeways anymore. And that's because each state on its own has limited resources. The situation for freeways and highways in general was much better when the federal government was far more involved.

[ipeters61]

Overall, no states are perfect at planning and building freeways anymore. And that's because each state on its own has limited resources. The situation for freeways and highways in general was much better when the federal government was far more involved.

NIMBYism also makes things difficult in the northeast.  One of my biggest gripes about visiting family is that all the roads in suburban Philadelphia are a nightmare.

I remember moving from CT to DE and thinking things were nuts in DE, but our roads at least don't have as much traffic as in PA.

Speaking of which, some nutjob hit me and ran earlier today on US-13 because he decided not to stop at a stop sign... 

[DJStephens]

It kind of sucks that Oklahoma is right next door to Texas. Pretty much anything Texas is doing right with building their freeways just shows how Oklahoma is doing it wrong.
   Long ago Texas got into the habit of securing future freeway corridors by way of building surface streets with wide medians or taking other steps acquiring ROW well in advance. Oklahoma has hardly any examples of this kind of future-proof planning, if there are any examples at all. Texas isn't perfect by any stretch.
   Overall, no states are perfect at planning and building freeways anymore. And that's because each state on its own has limited resources. The situation for freeways and highways in general was much better when the federal government was far more involved.

El Paso district shows where it is going wrong.  A lot of money spent, but enormous blunders committed.   Some include:
a] So called "Go 10"  Failure to address and geometrically fix I-10 by shifting West.   Obsession with Loop "completion" instead.   
b) Failure to get an Interstate route to the NM state line, directly aiming at Anthony Gap.  Which would force New Mexico to complete it, creating a true bypass, (I-210), not a mountain parkway (loop 375) which is not Class A trucking friendly. 
c) Loop 375 mish-mash.  Some sections near or at Interstate grade, while others are built to a lower standard, or even downgraded such as near Fort Bliss (Spur 601) "connection" with a hideous shift N of there.   
d) I-10 piecemeal interchange replacements and "improvements"  A twenty year pattern of mistakes - from the Zaragosa interchange (1997), to lane shifts at Raynolds (2000), to Redd Road (2002), Anthony exit 0 (2001) and Vinton (2003) and its later hideous add a U Turn. 
Nothing fits together, or appears to be planned as part of a general effort to widen and modernize.

---quote fix --sso   

[Buffaboy]

It kind of sucks that Oklahoma is right next door to Texas. Pretty much anything Texas is doing right with building their freeways just shows how Oklahoma is doing it wrong.
   Long ago Texas got into the habit of securing future freeway corridors by way of building surface streets with wide medians or taking other steps acquiring ROW well in advance. Oklahoma has hardly any examples of this kind of future-proof planning, if there are any examples at all. Texas isn't perfect by any stretch.
   Overall, no states are perfect at planning and building freeways anymore. And that's because each state on its own has limited resources. The situation for freeways and highways in general was much better when the federal government was far more involved.

El Paso district shows where it is going wrong.  A lot of money spent, but enormous blunders committed.   Some include:
a] So called "Go 10"  Failure to address and geometrically fix I-10 by shifting West.   Obsession with Loop "completion" instead.   
b) Failure to get an Interstate route to the NM state line, directly aiming at Anthony Gap.  Which would force New Mexico to complete it, creating a true bypass, (I-210), not a mountain parkway (loop 375) which is not Class A trucking friendly. 
c) Loop 375 mish-mash.  Some sections near or at Interstate grade, while others are built to a lower standard, or even downgraded such as near Fort Bliss (Spur 601) "connection" with a hideous shift N of there.   
d) I-10 piecemeal interchange replacements and "improvements"  A twenty year pattern of mistakes - from the Zaragosa interchange (1997), to lane shifts at Raynolds (2000), to Redd Road (2002), Anthony exit 0 (2001) and Vinton (2003) and its later hideous add a U Turn. 
Nothing fits together, or appears to be planned as part of a general effort to widen and modernize.   

It's not something I noticed when I was younger, but I ask myself why upstate NY cities like Buffalo, which in the 1950s had little growth beyond I-90/I-290, didn't do the same thing. Today, we are stuck with NY-78, "Transit Road," a 30 or so mile 4-6 lane surface highway which connects the city of Lockport with I-90 and the "Southtowns." The problem with this is that even with all of the expansions its had over the years, it remains an overloaded collector road at peak times, has a lot of businesses, communities and neighborhoods that feed into it, and lots of vacant land that will likely be developed in the coming decade. Not to mention the fact that the Eastern Hills Mall will be closing to be replaced with a "lifestyle center."

If the planners made Transit Road a pair of frontage roads, OR built frontage roads 1/4-1/8 mile to the east, this would make commuting around that area much easier. As many people here can attest, it isn't.

Something tells me there are worse examples out there.

quote fix --sso

[Beltway]

It's not something I noticed when I was younger, but I ask myself why upstate NY cities like Buffalo, which in the 1950s had little growth beyond I-90/I-290, didn't do the same thing. Today, we are stuck with NY-78, "Transit Road," a 30 or so mile 4-6 lane surface highway which connects the city of Lockport with I-90 and the "Southtowns." The problem with this is that even with all of the expansions its had over the years, it remains an overloaded collector road at peak times, has a lot of businesses, communities and neighborhoods that feed into it, and lots of vacant land that will likely be developed in the coming decade. Not to mention the fact that the Eastern Hills Mall will be closing to be replaced with a "lifestyle center."
If the planners made Transit Road a pair of frontage roads, OR built frontage roads 1/4-1/8 mile to the east, this would make commuting around that area much easier. As many people here can attest, it isn't.
Something tells me there are worse examples out there.

I despise Transit Road.  I have used it many times when visiting friends in the area around East Aurora.