Roads where same-direction traffic is split by another road

[jakeroot]

Please read this post. It explains the subject line. I hate starting new topics, but I can't find another topic to cram this into.

I normally like to give port areas the benefit of the doubt, but I'm having trouble defending this setup at the Port of Tacoma in WA: https://goo.gl/XrTNLQ

Ostensibly, we are looking (westbound) at three through lanes, with a barrier separating the #1 and #2 lanes; the right two lanes are actually coming at the camera (eastbound), not away from it. They are lanes for trucks waiting to load/unload at one of the various docks in the area. The lane immediately to the right of the double yellow is the only lane heading away from the camera (westbound). The far left is obviously for traffic coming towards the camera (eastbound).

The only indication that the right side of the median isn't for westbound traffic, is the stop line painted on the ground. A dashed yellow line suggests a turning angle, but those don't explicitly prohibit turning into the other lanes. A "do not enter" or "keep left" sign would be pretty damn helpful! Evidently, the intended route for westbound traffic is so unclear, the GSV camera car (in the above link) actually goes down the wrong way, as I did once before. Luckily no trucks that day.

This has been this way for about three years. The old setup (second image) had a white line separating the two directions with yellow flexible bollards. Was the white line the right edge of the two directions, or the middle of the road? Clearly they didn't know as they combined to the two colors: https://goo.gl/guhqU5

2017 GSV:


2015 GSV:


Realistically, this is probably a rare setup. I doubt another situation like this exists. If one does, even if it's properly signed, feel free to share.

[Scott5114]

What is even the point of that setup? Why would you not just restripe it so that the one lane going westbound was all the way to the right?! I tried to scroll around and see if I could find a justification for having the trucks driving on the left and I can't see it. Granted I don't know anything about how the port operates, but it still seems like a massive safety issue for very little benefit.

I'm equally flummoxed as to where the other end of the reversed setup is. I sure can't find any guidance for where the cars following the correct westbound path are supposed to go when the barrier stops.

[Roadsguy]

Proving the point of how poorly the one-way eastbound truck carriageway is signed, the 2017 Street View is of the Google car turning left onto it in the wrong direction! Seems he switched it off when he saw a truck turn into it facing him.

[SectorZ]

Trying to figure out, taking the same path as the Google car, how you're supposed to know that the truck only side is not the side of the road you're supposed to be on. It's like someone set it up with the assumption that "It's only the truckers that drive around there, and they know what to do".

[kphoger]

Contra-flow setups with a frontage road like this one in the heart of Oaxaca can lead to a similar situation.  Nearby that last GSV, the frontage road is absent, and turning traffic from this road has no indication they must turn onto the left side of the divider.

[US 89]

Not sure if it's quite what you're after, but this was the first thing that came to mind:

6200 South at Redwood Rd, southwest of Salt Lake City

It's really just a CFI, but I can easily see a driver accidentally going westbound down the dual EB-NB left turn lanes, especially the westbound through movement. The lines on the pavement should theoretically help the NB-WB left turn movement, but lane discipline on left turns seems to be lacking in many drivers (see every dual left turn ever).

[NE2]

http://www.google.com/maps/@47.2650293,-122.4091314,3a,75y,334.36h,70.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfhJTbBAgy87Gr7IvO4k-VA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Trucks going northbound on Thorne Road and accessing Olympic Container Terminal or Husky were (in June 2015) directed to turn left onto a gravel road that came out on 11th Street just east of the railroad crossing. There they would cross 11th Street into the contraflow lanes for queueing.

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2650451,-122.4090275,3a,75y,250.98h,79.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFZosSgWXKMhXUe2YR3WD3A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
The gravel road was closed by August 2017. But the August 2017 view posted above shows that the contraflow setup was still in place. Maybe the gravel road is only used during high traffic periods.

Perhaps it had something to do with the 11th Street Bridge being closed.

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2649601,-122.4122694,3a,42.4y,89.6h,87.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIfL5-b5Afl94rgSHCKzg0A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Here's an August 2017 view at the west end of the setup. That's at least handled reasonably.

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2591261,-122.4035893,3a,34.8y,7.41h,87.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spsgTO0KiL7lnGk1uKAR33A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.huskyterminal.com/yard-map/
There's now a queueing lot on Thorne Road farther south. It's not clear how long it's been there.


https://matterhornwab.co.pierce.wa.us/publicgis/ has aerial photography from after the Jersey barrier was installed. It shows the gravel road closed and a break in the barrier at Thorne Road. As best as I can tell, trucks going to Husky are required to go up Thorne Road to the queueing lot, then back onto Thorne Road to the end and right into the contraflow lanes on 11th Street.


tl;dr: the point is to keep queueing trucks from clogging up the roads.

[vdeane]

What is even the point of that setup? Why would you not just restripe it so that the one lane going westbound was all the way to the right?! I tried to scroll around and see if I could find a justification for having the trucks driving on the left and I can't see it. Granted I don't know anything about how the port operates, but it still seems like a massive safety issue for very little benefit.

I'm equally flummoxed as to where the other end of the reversed setup is. I sure can't find any guidance for where the cars following the correct westbound path are supposed to go when the barrier stops.

It looks like they're trying to keep trucks bound for the inspection booths separate from other traffic, though why it's not on the other side of the road is a good question.

[jakeroot]

Had a bit of a busy day...appreciate all the responses. Glad I'm not the only one flummoxed by the design. To be clear, I understand the need for the queue area, but I'm still not impressed by the setup.

I went and took some photos late in the day yesterday. It's quite obvious that, following the closure of the East 11th St Bridge and Viaduct (due west), there was an opportunity for improving the queue situation for trucks with all the extra capacity. NE2 sums up the flow of the area pretty well (note the drawn message in the first image), though trucks are still required to cross over the westbound lane to enter the queue.

Bit of history on 11th St/Port of Tacoma area if any are interested:

Up until 2005, the bridge completed a light and heavy vehicle connection of 11th St between Downtown Tacoma and Port of Tacoma Road. In 2005, severe weight restrictions were put in place on the then-94-year-old structure, prohibiting >10 ton vehicles. This was the main traffic; AADT in the area dropped to 2000. Eventually the structure was completely closed off in 2014. When the state moved WA-509 from 11th to the new freeway south of the Port of Tacoma, in 1995, they handed the structure over to the ill-equipped city of Tacoma, who allowed this structure (and the neighboring Murray Morgan Bridge) to deteriorate. Granted, they were old, but the maintenance was too much to handle. The Murray Morgan Bridge closed for six years in 2007, with rehab occurring near the end of that stretch.

There are currently no plans for the East 11th St Bridge and Viaduct, but the city invested heavily into completely rebuilding Port of Tacoma Road. That road was formerly a pot-hole-ridden mess which often required drivers to swerve all over the road, straddling lane lines and sometimes driving into oncoming traffic, to avoid destroying their suspension (still the case on many other port roads in the area). This improvement was needed first, but it might be signalling the city's lack of interest in rebuilding that connection (instead maintaining a better connection directly to the 5 and 509 to the south). Even if they did rebuilding the connection, 11th ends at Port of Tacoma Road. The bridge that carried 11th from POT Rd to Alexander Ave was demolished in 1997 due to frequent collisions caused by ever-larger cargo ships (plus it was replaced as an arterial by the new 509).

Based on the city's interest in preserving examples of old infrastructure (Murray Morgan Bridge) and maintaining existing connections (Eells St Bridge over the Puyallup River close by), I think the bridge and viaduct will eventually be replaced, but probably not for a while, since it would cost $40 million instead of $10 million for demolition. I do see a possibility for demolition, though. Hyundai/Kia's arrival facility/lot straddles the viaduct west of Milwaukee Ave (take note of the "Port of Entry" on the Monroney sticker next time you check out a Hyundai/Kia). I'm sure they'd be willing to step up some cash for demolition if it meant a better connection between those lots.

Cool fact: the now-closed bridge and viaduct contain the last-remaining examples of Tacoma's old streetcar network. In the photo below, you can see where the tracks used to be, filled in by concrete (look behind the signs). The streetcar shut down in 1938.



Here are some other photos. The orange sign in the first photo is the city's attempt to ensure drivers go down the left side of the barrier.

[ErmineNotyours]

That does explain the signing at the east end of 11th.  I guess this still counts as through lanes getting two signal heads and the right only getting one.

Traffic light at E 11th and Port of Tacoma Road by Arthur Allen, on Flickr

[jakeroot]

That does explain the signing at the east end of 11th.  I guess this still counts as through lanes getting two signal heads and the right only getting one.

I noticed that issue too. I think two signal heads would still be required, as the right and left turns from that lane should be considered primary movements.

[kphoger]

Sounds like everybody is required to signal.

[UCFKnights]

In Orlando, at UCF, while they were rebuilding the entry side (not in this street view) of the road that exits on the left side of this street view, they configured the center lane (that is marked to turn both left and right) to move the opposite direction and lead to the left, not into the parking garage.. They painted a double yellow line where it is now a double white line (prior to the construction, that was just a single white line) and closed the right lane of the exit of the garage. It was closed for about a month or so during the Summer A session, the most off-peak time possible. The signage was really bad the first day I went through it, and by the second day they added signs to each lane indicating the usage, and also stationed a police officer there full time to help direct traffic until the parking garage (and thus the right 2 lanes) was closed at night. The traffic light was also turned off and the intersection was controlled by an all way stop during that time period as well.
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.6018963,-81.1946144,3a,75y,264.87h,85.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3TWwVbJel8t45uvc2zOTZw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[MantyMadTown]

Not sure I can think of any true examples, but the closest thing I can think of off the top of my head is where MN-13 turns off right before the interchange with US 169 near Savage. The actual intersection is physically separated from the rest of the roadway, with a barrier separating the westbound roadway and the intersection and an overpass separating the intersection and the eastbound roadway.

[jakeroot]

Not sure I can think of any true examples, but the closest thing I can think of off the top of my head is where MN-13 turns off right before the interchange with US 169 near Savage. The actual intersection is physically separated from the rest of the roadway, with a barrier separating the westbound roadway and the intersection and an overpass separating the intersection and the eastbound roadway.

That's basically just a Seagull intersection, but I don't see that setup used in conjunction with freeway interchanges too often! Still cool.

That link also reminds me, once again, how good Minnesota is at signal placement.

[MantyMadTown]

Not sure I can think of any true examples, but the closest thing I can think of off the top of my head is where MN-13 turns off right before the interchange with US 169 near Savage. The actual intersection is physically separated from the rest of the roadway, with a barrier separating the westbound roadway and the intersection and an overpass separating the intersection and the eastbound roadway.

That's basically just a Seagull intersection, but I don't see that setup used in conjunction with freeway interchanges too often! Still cool.

That link also reminds me, once again, how good Minnesota is at signal placement.

At the time I was posting it I didn't know what a seagull intersection was. Still, the turn lanes are physically separated from the rest of the roadway and I thought that was unusual.

[kphoger]

Not sure I can think of any true examples, but the closest thing I can think of off the top of my head is where MN-13 turns off right before the interchange with US 169 near Savage. The actual intersection is physically separated from the rest of the roadway, with a barrier separating the westbound roadway and the intersection and an overpass separating the intersection and the eastbound roadway.

That's basically just a Seagull intersection, but I don't see that setup used in conjunction with freeway interchanges too often! Still cool.

Somewhat common in Mexico.  Some seagull interchanges I can easily recall driving through in Coahuila are here south of Monclova, and here south of Nueva Rosita, and here north of Saltillo.

(Note:  Botts dots on steroids, rather than a Jersey barrier)

[jakeroot]

and here north of Saltillo.

I think that one's just a left exit.

At the time I was posting it I didn't know what a seagull intersection was. Still, the turn lanes are physically separated from the rest of the roadway and I thought that was unusual.

I was looking more for roads where, for example, left turn lanes and through lanes were split by another road or lane going the opposite direction. It's a very unusual situation, and I wasn't really expecting any responses.

[kphoger]

and here north of Saltillo.

I think that one's just a left exit.

Here's a better one just down the road, then.

[jakeroot]

and here north of Saltillo.

I think that one's just a left exit.

Here's a better one just down the road, then.

OT: Mexico's signals remind me of Europe, with that white reflective tape around the edge instead of yellow (US and Canada).

[sbeaver44]

I don't know if this counts, but in Lebanon, PA, US 422 West runs one way on Cumberland.  However, for one block, the end of PA 897 North runs the opposite way with a concrete barrier physically separating the two so that North 897 can get to 5th Ave.

I've always been fascinated by this intersection.

470 Benjamin Franklin Hwy
https://goo.gl/maps/URDhv8erRVr

[jakeroot]

I don't know if this counts, but in Lebanon, PA, US 422 West runs one way on Cumberland.  However, for one block, the end of PA 897 North runs the opposite way with a concrete barrier physically separating the two so that North 897 can get to 5th Ave.

I've always been fascinated by this intersection.

470 Benjamin Franklin Hwy
https://goo.gl/maps/URDhv8erRVr

It doesn't quite fit what I had in mind. BUT, that is indeed a very unusual contraflow setup there, so I do appreciate you posting it!

[paulthemapguy]

Wouldn't the layout of the carriageways of I-790 and I-90 count for this?  It fits the title, but not the exact Tacoma airport situation.  I-790 eastbound and westbound carriageways are separated by I-90 in between.  https://goo.gl/maps/7svx9rFxm2L2

[vdeane]

Wouldn't the layout of the carriageways of I-790 and I-90 count for this?  It fits the title, but not the exact Tacoma airport situation.  I-790 eastbound and westbound carriageways are separated by I-90 in between.  https://goo.gl/maps/7svx9rFxm2L2

Except the carriageways aren't going the same direction.  One is going eastbound and the other is going westbound.

[kphoger]

I don't know if this counts, but in Lebanon, PA, US 422 West runs one way on Cumberland.  However, for one block, the end of PA 897 North runs the opposite way with a concrete barrier physically separating the two so that North 897 can get to 5th Ave.

I've always been fascinated by this intersection.

470 Benjamin Franklin Hwy
https://goo.gl/maps/URDhv8erRVr

It doesn't quite fit what I had in mind. BUT, that is indeed a very unusual contraflow setup there, so I do appreciate you posting it!

How is that a contraflow setup?  From what I'm seeing, traffic still drives on the right.