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Westbound CA 91 to be widened from Green River Rd to CA 241

Started by MarkF, December 15, 2018, 02:56:53 AM

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MarkF



sparker

Quote from: MarkF on December 15, 2018, 02:56:53 AM
This would up the number of general purpose lanes in the stretch to six, could be completed in 2021:
https://www.ocregister.com/2018/12/12/new-91-freeway-westbound-lane-okd-from-western-corona-to-241-toll-road/

But still no (a) direct connections between the 91 Express lanes and the tolled CA 241 or (b) a flyover from CA 91 east to CA 71 north.  Maybe it's just D8 and D12 not being on the same page, but those are improvements that are way overdue, particularly since the Chino area has grown by leaps & bounds over the past 15 years largely as a commuter "bedroom community" for O.C.  One additional WB lane will only yield marginal results, but won't come close to addressing the other issues.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: sparker on December 21, 2018, 04:02:33 PM
Quote from: MarkF on December 15, 2018, 02:56:53 AM
This would up the number of general purpose lanes in the stretch to six, could be completed in 2021:
https://www.ocregister.com/2018/12/12/new-91-freeway-westbound-lane-okd-from-western-corona-to-241-toll-road/

But still no (a) direct connections between the 91 Express lanes and the tolled CA 241 or (b) a flyover from CA 91 east to CA 71 north.  Maybe it's just D8 and D12 not being on the same page, but those are improvements that are way overdue, particularly since the Chino area has grown by leaps & bounds over the past 15 years largely as a commuter "bedroom community" for O.C.  One additional WB lane will only yield marginal results, but won't come close to addressing the other issues.
I was under the impression that the 241 toll road to 91 express lane connector was underway or soon to be. Is this not the case?

As for GP lanes, they need to add more lane 3 more GP lanes in each direction and they need to be looking at new passenger rail alternatives for the area. I also wonder if a built Irvine to corona tunnel would relieve 91 traffic at all. But that's just dreaming at this point.

sparker

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on December 26, 2018, 01:49:11 PM
Quote from: sparker on December 21, 2018, 04:02:33 PM
Quote from: MarkF on December 15, 2018, 02:56:53 AM
This would up the number of general purpose lanes in the stretch to six, could be completed in 2021:
https://www.ocregister.com/2018/12/12/new-91-freeway-westbound-lane-okd-from-western-corona-to-241-toll-road/

But still no (a) direct connections between the 91 Express lanes and the tolled CA 241 or (b) a flyover from CA 91 east to CA 71 north.  Maybe it's just D8 and D12 not being on the same page, but those are improvements that are way overdue, particularly since the Chino area has grown by leaps & bounds over the past 15 years largely as a commuter "bedroom community" for O.C.  One additional WB lane will only yield marginal results, but won't come close to addressing the other issues.
I was under the impression that the 241 toll road to 91 express lane connector was underway or soon to be. Is this not the case?

As for GP lanes, they need to add more lane 3 more GP lanes in each direction and they need to be looking at new passenger rail alternatives for the area. I also wonder if a built Irvine to corona tunnel would relieve 91 traffic at all. But that's just dreaming at this point.

If the direct 91/Toll to 241/Toll connection is in the works, I haven't heard about it -- the last thing I did hear is the agencies (91/Toll is a joint effort of OCTA and Riverside County, while the 241/261/133 toll roads are a separate entity with OCTA as a partner; conflicts apparently have delayed any such connector plans.  I don't know where they'd put 3+3 GP lanes unless a new facility sited on a viaduct over the Santa Ana River and/or the BNSF tracks were to be built.  And the long-discussed tunnel wasn't to go directly into central Corona, but was to be between 241 near the 261 junction and I-15 near Cajalco Road between Corona and Lake Elsinore.   Again, nothing but rumor and speculation about that undertaking.   

Plutonic Panda

Last thing I heard about the tunnel is it dead in the water at this point. I try my best to remain optimistic about such endeavors as the 710 tunnel and just hold onto the fact it "could"  be bought back one day.

Here is the website regarding the express lane connector to the 241: https://thetollroads.com/about/projects/241-91-connector

Quick overview of the project says it's still in the beginning stages. For some reason I thought it was further along.

sparker

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on December 26, 2018, 05:40:09 PM
Last thing I heard about the tunnel is it dead in the water at this point. I try my best to remain optimistic about such endeavors as the 710 tunnel and just hold onto the fact it "could"  be bought back one day.

Here is the website regarding the express lane connector to the 241: https://thetollroads.com/about/projects/241-91-connector

Quick overview of the project says it's still in the beginning stages. For some reason I thought it was further along.

According to the site, it looks like the 91/241 toll connector is immersed in the environmental process right now.  That'll mean mayhem on 91 while it's being built (I lived in Anaheim Hills when the main interchange was opened back in '98, and remember -- but not fondly -- the mess heading east through the construction zone).  As that was the last part of 241 to open to traffic, the sheer number of vehicles added to the EB 91 mix from 241 resulted, as would be expected, in a 2nd congestion point (after the merge from CA 55) as 241 traffic integrated into the 91 GP lanes.  No doubt about it, Santa Ana Canyon has been and will in all likelihood continue to be one of SoCal's most feared chokepoints.   

MarkF

Regarding a direct connect from CA241 to the 91 toll lanes, see this thread from 2017, the OCTA was against it:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=21761.msg2283862#msg2283862

Don't know if the TollRoads website data is older than this.


sparker

Quote from: MarkF on December 29, 2018, 02:52:33 AM
Regarding a direct connect from CA241 to the 91 toll lanes, see this thread from 2017, the OCTA was against it:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=21761.msg2283862#msg2283862

Don't know if the TollRoads website data is older than this.



OCTA took over the formerly PPP 91 Express Lanes several years back -- although they had assiduously avoided doing so for as long as possible until such time as the PP corporation threatened to shut down the lanes if a buyout couldn't be negotiated.  But now that they've got control, they act like "helicopter parents" about their "baby" -- they resisted a direct extension into Riverside County because (a) they were afraid of combining agency "missions" and (b) they claimed that their customers primarily were residents of Corona or SW Riverside, the two closest areas along CA 91 to OC, and that combining the rate structure with Riverside County would increase the cost of ridership.  It took extensive public comment -- which clearly showed that Riverside County residents who commuted to OC were overwhelmingly willing to spend a few extra bucks to stay within the express lanes as long as feasible.  Originally the Riverside County 91 express lanes only extended between I-15 and Arlington Ave. in Riverside; for many years there was a gap through Corona all the way to the OC county line, where OC's express lanes started.  Now there's continuous lanes from CA 55 to downtown Riverside.  But OCTA is a bit of a conundrum -- they fight any change to the systems they control -- but once it becomes apparent that such change is inevitable, they not only get on board but try to control the entire process!   

djsekani

Quote from: MarkF on December 29, 2018, 02:52:33 AM
Regarding a direct connect from CA241 to the 91 toll lanes, see this thread from 2017, the OCTA was against it:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=21761.msg2283862#msg2283862

Don't know if the TollRoads website data is older than this.

I always wondered why this was never a thing. During the afternoon commute from Irvine to Riverside, taking the 241 north is a waste of money since you're sitting in traffic for 30+ minutes trying to merge onto the regular 91 lanes; taking the non-tolled 55 HOV lane instead is a significantly faster option that's robbing the TCA of revenue.

Plutonic Panda




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