Interstate 11

[SoCal Kid]

Apple Maps how Interstate 11 all the way up to an interchange north of the Hoover Dam, I assume that's how much of I-11 has been completed. However, I-11 is not highlighted in yellow on Apple Maps to indicate it's a freeway.

[Roadwarriors79]

Apple seems to take longer to update their maps than others (specifically Google Maps or Waze). Look how long it took to update the completed I-95 in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Anyway, in the field, I-11 signage starts northbound just past the bridge crossing from Arizona.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_11

[SoCal Kid]

Apple Maps how Interstate 11 all the way up to an interchange north of the Hoover Dam, I assume that's how much of I-11 has been completed. However, I-11 is not highlighted in yellow on Apple Maps to indicate it's a freeway.

Show, not how. Typo, apologies for that

[Roadwarriors79]

From looking at the corridor alternatives, it's good to see that there is at least one option of using existing parts of AZ 85, I-19, I-8, and I-10. Realistically it will be really hard for ADOT to build any new alignments south of Casa Grande. Also interesting to note is that ADOT doesn't want to use any part of current US 60 for I-11, so the idea of Grand Ave ever becoming a freeway should be put to rest.

[SoCal Kid]

Apple seems to take longer to update their maps than others (specifically Google Maps or Waze). Look how long it took to update the completed I-95 in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Anyway, in the field, I-11 signage starts northbound just past the bridge crossing from Arizona.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_11

Yea Apple is a bit slow. Thanks for the info!

[sparker]

From looking at the corridor alternatives, it's good to see that there is at least one option of using existing parts of AZ 85, I-19, I-8, and I-10. Realistically it will be really hard for ADOT to build any new alignments south of Casa Grande. Also interesting to note is that ADOT doesn't want to use any part of current US 60 for I-11, so the idea of Grand Ave ever becoming a freeway should be put to rest.

IIRC, there was never any consideration given to simply upgrading Grand Avenue to Interstate standards; the level of businesses and housing, along with the parallel BNSF rail line made that concept exceptionally difficult if not impossible (both logistically and politically).  If anything, one of the considerations aside from the Hassayampa alignment was a facility parallel to Grand/US 60 and extending to at least Loop 303.  But for the last few years most of the information released indicates that the N-S Hassayampa corridor to the west is all but a "done deal"; AZDOT, the local MPO, and most other regional players in this process have tended to favor an alignment that diverts traffic away from central Phoenix rather than directly toward it; whether such a corridor ends up on AZ 85 down to Gila Bend and I-8 or cuts across diagonally, per published plans, toward Casa Grande (likely on the wish list of Maricopa-area developers) has yet TBD.  It seems they're utilizing "horseshoe" rules here -- intersecting I-10 out in Buckeye is effectively a "leaner"; close enough to Phoenix even though not a direct hit! 

[The Ghostbuster]

Interstate 11's southern terminus should be at Interstate 8. Is there really a traffic need for the Interstate to go beyond Interstate 8? Any Interstate 11 extension south of Interstate 8 appears to go through sparsely populated areas, which hardly need an Interstate connection.

[Sub-Urbanite]

Interstate 11's southern terminus should be at Interstate 8. Is there really a traffic need for the Interstate to go beyond Interstate 8? Any Interstate 11 extension south of Interstate 8 appears to go through sparsely populated areas, which hardly need an Interstate connection.

Novel concept:

• Don't spend $2-4 billion building a new freeway between West Phoenix and Tucson
• Connect Tucson and Phoenix with reliable, fast rail transit
• Toll any driver who gets on I-10 between Empirita and Tangerine, and exits anywhere between 587 and 85, or vice-versa.
• Let through traffic enjoy reduced volumes and congestion and charge drivers for the convenience of going by car and the expense of the congestion that goes with it

[kdk]

I agree that anything south of I-8 seems unnecessary, but it's being planned right now just for the corridor preservation.  There is a lot of new residential planned and in the works SW of Tucson- along the Irvington and Valencia corridors stretching west from I-19 for about 10 miles right now.  That trend will continue through the next few cycles.  While I don't see much happening between I-8 and the Avra Valley along that part of the corridor in the next 30 years, the areas closer to Tucson will likely develop and if/when the need arises for an I-10 reliever as the two metros develop and begin to merge together the option will be there.

[splashflash]

I agree that anything south of I-8 seems unnecessary, but it's being planned right now just for the corridor preservation.  There is a lot of new residential planned and in the works SW of Tucson- along the Irvington and Valencia corridors stretching west from I-19 for about 10 miles right now.  That trend will continue through the next few cycles.  While I don't see much happening between I-8 and the Avra Valley along that part of the corridor in the next 30 years, the areas closer to Tucson will likely develop and if/when the need arises for an I-10 reliever as the two metros develop and begin to merge together the option will be there.

There is a lot of resistence in the Avra Valley to the I-11 project.  In their opposition they could easily pick up on the grandiosity of two parallel interstates in locations between but far from Phoenix or Tucson.  I-11 should terminate at I-8, the closer to SR-85, the better.  The Tucson south-west, south ring-road bypass should be made a separate project, probably an I-410 project, and perhaps bundled together with the Sonoran Corridor Freeway.

The I-10 in Phoenix has a garganuan amount of traffic, 200,000+ /hr where the South Mountain Freeway will interchange.  The proposed SR-30 routing of I-11 makes sense, basically providing redundancy to I-10; the environmental review is in progress.  The southward connection from the SR-30 segment of the route, linking 303L south of CR85 to follow the Hassayumpa Freeway corridor (segment I2) should be contentious.  Segment 'J', the western-most noth-south connection between the Hassayumpa freeway corridor and I-8 was dropped and not included in the three chosen options.  Miles of parallel I-11 and I-8 is the result.

[sparker]

Interstate 11's southern terminus should be at Interstate 8. Is there really a traffic need for the Interstate to go beyond Interstate 8? Any Interstate 11 extension south of Interstate 8 appears to go through sparsely populated areas, which hardly need an Interstate connection.

Novel concept:

• Don't spend $2-4 billion building a new freeway between West Phoenix and Tucson
• Connect Tucson and Phoenix with reliable, fast rail transit
• Toll any driver who gets on I-10 between Empirita and Tangerine, and exits anywhere between 587 and 85, or vice-versa.
• Let through traffic enjoy reduced volumes and congestion and charge drivers for the convenience of going by car and the expense of the congestion that goes with it

Slapping full-facility tolls on existing roads in Arizona?  Haven't seen any pigs with wings anywhere in the vicinity!  Down the line tolled express lanes may be a possibility (and even probability) -- but that's about as far as the political sensibilities of that state will go.  Now -- having said that, I could see the parallel-to-I-10 facility, on the off-chance it gets past the discussion stage, being a dedicated tolled road, functionally the oft-cited "Lexus Lanes", giving those willing (& able) to pay the ability to bypass I-10 traffic.   AZ is if anything a state prone to libertarian urges -- and those often can and do include favoring direct user fees over general taxes for infrastructure development.   But any future tolled facility development would need to be framed in such a way as to provide a choice to the driving public rather than a simple requirement that if one goes between points "A" and "B", a toll/fee will be involved.  AZ has given no indication that its policies should or will focus on the demand side of traffic management; the historic -- and likely long-term -- approach will be to address changing demand by augmenting or upgrading the facilities under their jurisdiction.         

[Plutonic Panda]

Interstate 11's southern terminus should be at Interstate 8. Is there really a traffic need for the Interstate to go beyond Interstate 8? Any Interstate 11 extension south of Interstate 8 appears to go through sparsely populated areas, which hardly need an Interstate connection.

Novel concept:

• Don't spend $2-4 billion building a new freeway between West Phoenix and Tucson
• Connect Tucson and Phoenix with reliable, fast rail transit
• Toll any driver who gets on I-10 between Empirita and Tangerine, and exits anywhere between 587 and 85, or vice-versa.
• Let through traffic enjoy reduced volumes and congestion and charge drivers for the convenience of going by car and the expense of the congestion that goes with it

Novel concept:

Spend 2-4 billion dollars building the freeway understanding drivers ALREADY pay to drive WITHOUT TOLLS!

Offer HSR between Tucson and Phoenix as an alternative

Do NOT toll any interstates with the exception of HO/T lanes with a mandatory two free GP lanes added for a single tolled lane.

This gives people choice but as we know if people are offered great rail service or great infrastructure that allows them to drive cars they will choose cars. That is what the pro transit and bike crowd are afraid of.

[jakeroot]

This gives people choice

But at a huge cost. I highly doubt current income could pay for a $2-4B freeway and a proper HSR line, not least without tolling the new freeway or raising taxes, or some combination of the two.

[MantyMadTown]

I had no idea ADOT was planning for I-11 to completely bypass Phoenix. Still, we don't need to build a completely new parallel route for it. We can use already existing or planned corridors instead.

[sparker]

I had no idea ADOT was planning for I-11 to completely bypass Phoenix. Still, we don't need to build a completely new parallel route for it. We can use already existing or planned corridors instead.

At least now ADOT is even considering utilizing AZ 85 -- which is readily upgradeable except for a Gila Bend bypass.  Maybe the fiscal reality of what was originally considered is starting to sink in -- or perhaps the stranglehold that developers have had regarding what is to be placed on the ground is loosening somewhat.  At least the "winnowing down" process regarding the corridor's alignment and configuration is proceeding; maybe construction will commence within the next decade.

[Anthony_JK]

Interstate 11's southern terminus should be at Interstate 8. Is there really a traffic need for the Interstate to go beyond Interstate 8? Any Interstate 11 extension south of Interstate 8 appears to go through sparsely populated areas, which hardly need an Interstate connection.

Novel concept:

   
• Don't spend $2-4 billion building a new freeway between West Phoenix and Tucson
• Connect Tucson and Phoenix with reliable, fast rail transit
• Toll any driver who gets on I-10 between Empirita and Tangerine, and exits anywhere between 587 and 85, or vice-versa.
• Let through traffic enjoy reduced volumes and congestion and charge drivers for the convenience of going by car and the expense of the congestion that goes with it

Even noveller concept:

   
• Terminate I-11 at I-8 in Gila Bend using an upgraded AR 85 and a freeway connection with I-8.
• Build a bypass of Tucson, but using an I-x19 designation; otherwise, widen I-19 through Tucson.
• Improve Amtrak service between Phoenix and Tucson, or implement some form of commuter rail.

Cheaper, and no tolls needed.

[splashflash]

I had no idea ADOT was planning for I-11 to completely bypass Phoenix. Still, we don't need to build a completely new parallel route for it. We can use already existing or planned corridors instead.

At least now ADOT is even considering utilizing AZ 85 -- which is readily upgradeable except for a Gila Bend bypass.  Maybe the fiscal reality of what was originally considered is starting to sink in -- or perhaps the stranglehold that developers have had regarding what is to be placed on the ground is loosening somewhat.  At least the "winnowing down" process regarding the corridor's alignment and configuration is proceeding; maybe construction will commence within the next decade.

The mention of tolls is interesting, as in 2016 ADOT bandied about the concept for SR-30, only for that to seemingly be subsequently dropped.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2016/09/27/exclusive-adot-ready-to-start-planning-first-az.html

Perhaps tolls could be used to construct the US 93 to I-10 link, together with development fees?

[MantyMadTown]

Interstate 11's southern terminus should be at Interstate 8. Is there really a traffic need for the Interstate to go beyond Interstate 8? Any Interstate 11 extension south of Interstate 8 appears to go through sparsely populated areas, which hardly need an Interstate connection.

Novel concept:

   
• Don't spend $2-4 billion building a new freeway between West Phoenix and Tucson
• Connect Tucson and Phoenix with reliable, fast rail transit
• Toll any driver who gets on I-10 between Empirita and Tangerine, and exits anywhere between 587 and 85, or vice-versa.
• Let through traffic enjoy reduced volumes and congestion and charge drivers for the convenience of going by car and the expense of the congestion that goes with it

Even noveller concept:

   
• Terminate I-11 at I-8 in Gila Bend using an upgraded AR 85 and a freeway connection with I-8.
• Build a bypass of Tucson, but using an I-x19 designation; otherwise, widen I-19 through Tucson.
• Improve Amtrak service between Phoenix and Tucson, or implement some form of commuter rail.

Cheaper, and no tolls needed.

I really like the idea of a high-speed rail line between Phoenix and Tucson.

[Plutonic Panda]

This gives people choice

But at a huge cost. I highly doubt current income could pay for a $2-4B freeway and a proper HSR line, not least without tolling the new freeway or raising taxes, or some combination of the two.

I am 100 percent against tolling roads with an interstate designation. It wouldn't be cheap but in the end would likely give the best possible product.

I like the parallel freeway to I-10 because it offers another option in case I-10 is shut down for whatever reason. Tucson and Phoenix are two major cities fairly close to each other. A world class and resilient transportation corridor is more of what projects in this country need and less of half assing things.

There might need to be a modest increase in taxes. The United States already pays some pretty low taxes when it comes to the "developed"  world. I'm not advocating for outrageous taxes with that being said.

As far as HSR, I suspect it could be built for a reasonable price mainly along I-10 ROW. The terrain isn't that bad and it is a fairly straight shot.

I firmly believe overbuilding capacity isn't a bad thing especially a crucial link between two major cities. I also think any efforts should be as followed:

First tackle Hoover Dam to I-40 then I-40 to Phoenix. Once that is done then worry about going further south.

[nosrac52]

Bring I-11 to Idaho. Boise and the state of Idaho need the Economic opportunity and safety!

[NE2]

Bring I-11 to Idaho. Boise and the state of Idaho need the Economic opportunity and safety!

I-11 will allow potatoes to leave the state in droves. Keep I-11 out!

[hotdogPi]

Bring I-11 to Idaho. Boise and the state of Idaho need the Economic opportunity and safety!

Welcome to the forum!

[nexus73]

Bring I-11 to Idaho. Boise and the state of Idaho need the Economic opportunity and safety!

I-11 will allow potatoes to leave the state in droves. Keep I-11 out!

Actually the deal on transporting potatoes is that instead of using droves, the farms use trucks.  Droves are so 19th century...LOL!

Rick

[Verlanka]

Bring I-11 to Idaho. Boise and the state of Idaho need the Economic opportunity and safety!

I-11 will allow potatoes to leave the state in droves. Keep I-11 out!

Actually the deal on transporting potatoes is that instead of using droves, the farms use trucks.  Droves are so 19th century...LOL!

Rick

That is so true.

[sparker]

It's probably likely something, regardless of number, will eventually connect the Treasure Valley/Boise region with I-80 to expedite travel to CA and other southwest points.  But the most efficient path to do so remains US 95 -- with the reality that OR will have to be brought into the process on a route that really doesn't provide much benefits to them -- more of a "pass-through", so to speak.  They'll likely expect -- and strongly suggest if not outright demand -- considerable contribution from outside to even consider upgrading their portion of such a corridor.  That in itself might be a principal factor in any decision as to where a continuation of I-11 will go. 

And I doubt that they'll take that contribution in potatoes!