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Started by mgk920, May 30, 2012, 02:33:31 AM

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tribar

Quote from: msunat97 on October 16, 2018, 05:28:34 PM
https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/10/09/outagamie-officials-seek-brown-county-support-41-speed-limit/1565346002/

What does everyone think about this article?  Seems like a Band-Aid solution to this problem.

What a terrible idea. 55 mph on a rural stretch of freeway is ridiculous. 70 is low enough.


mgk920

It is a very fast highway - one of the, if not the, fastest highways in the entire state - flowing at much the current speed in clear traffic for several decades now.

As is fairly commonly known in here - 'Speed limit ≠ average speed of clear traffic'.

Mike

MantyMadTown

Quote from: mgk920 on October 16, 2018, 03:53:50 PM
WisDOT is confident on the latest environmental review (the FHWA just signed off on it) and is planning on a spring 2019 start for four lane upgrades to the remaining two lane part of WI 23 between Fond du Lac and Sheboygan (the part west of about WI 67).  Completion is expected in 2023.

https://wtaq.com/news/articles/2018/oct/16/attention-on-dangerous-stretch-of-highway/

:cheers:

Mike

Yes! I've been wanting that for a long time.

Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 16, 2018, 05:41:59 PM
Quote from: msunat97 on October 16, 2018, 05:28:34 PM
https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/10/09/outagamie-officials-seek-brown-county-support-41-speed-limit/1565346002/

What does everyone think about this article?  Seems like a Band-Aid solution to this problem.


I live in the area, and I-41 can be pretty fast and full of traffic between WI-15 and Scheuring Road.  It is definitely in need of an expansion.

That being said, 55mph is a joke.  If they want to reduce it to 65 mph between WI-15 and County J (northernmost Kaukauna exit), I would be fine with that.  I could even go for 60 mph.  But as the article states, between Kaukauna and DePere the traffic counts go down.

Yeah I don't think lowering the speed limit between Kaukauna and De Pere would be a good idea. Setting it to 55 won't make drivers any slower. If anything, it'll just unnecessarily slow travel times between Green Bay and Appleton.

I do think I-41 should be expanded though.
Forget the I-41 haters

Revive 755

Quote from: tribar on October 16, 2018, 05:44:26 PM
Quote from: msunat97 on October 16, 2018, 05:28:34 PM
https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/10/09/outagamie-officials-seek-brown-county-support-41-speed-limit/1565346002/

What does everyone think about this article?  Seems like a Band-Aid solution to this problem.

What a terrible idea. 55 mph on a rural stretch of freeway is ridiculous. 70 is low enough.

I think those county officials need to drive the work zone on I-39/I-90 and few times and see how well the 55 mph limit is obeyed when there is not a cop around.

paulthemapguy

#2279
Quote from: Revive 755 on October 16, 2018, 10:12:46 PM
Quote from: tribar on October 16, 2018, 05:44:26 PM
Quote from: msunat97 on October 16, 2018, 05:28:34 PM
https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/10/09/outagamie-officials-seek-brown-county-support-41-speed-limit/1565346002/

What does everyone think about this article?  Seems like a Band-Aid solution to this problem.

What a terrible idea. 55 mph on a rural stretch of freeway is ridiculous. 70 is low enough.

I think those county officials need to drive the work zone on I-39/I-90 and few times and see how well the 55 mph limit is obeyed when there is not a cop around.

Amateurs.

Amateurs are the only people who would propose a speed limit reduction as a safety measure on a rural freeway.  Either that or extortionists. 

I say this having just completed two speed studies at work today LOL
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Big John

Would be odd going 70 in an urban area going to 55 in a rural area.  Opposite of what is expected.

MantyMadTown

Quote from: Big John on October 17, 2018, 12:42:29 AM
Would be odd going 70 in an urban area going to 55 in a rural area.  Opposite of what is expected.

I think they would slow it down in Green Bay too.
Forget the I-41 haters

peterj920

As a frequent I-41 driver between Green Bay and Appleton, the biggest problem by far is people hogging the left lane.  It's either older people who don't care that they're slowing traffic or younger people using their phones and not knowing that they're driving slower and holding up traffic.  There's days I pass more on the right than the left.

The state patrol should emphasize enforcement in ticketing drivers who stay in the left lane without attempting to pass and camp out in that lane.  That would help cut down on the root of the problem with I-41.  The speed limit isn't an issue at all.

SSOWorld

Quote from: peterj920 on October 17, 2018, 05:11:04 AM
As a frequent I-41 driver between Green Bay and Appleton, the biggest problem by far is people hogging the left lane.  It's either older people who don't care that they're slowing traffic or younger people using their phones and not knowing that they're driving slower and holding up traffic.  There's days I pass more on the right than the left.

The state patrol should emphasize enforcement in ticketing drivers who stay in the left lane without attempting to pass and camp out in that lane.  That would help cut down on the root of the problem with I-41.  The speed limit isn't an issue at all.
Say that a little louder to them so they'll listen...

Oh wait, they won't. Not profitable.
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: peterj920 on October 17, 2018, 05:11:04 AM
As a frequent I-41 driver between Green Bay and Appleton, the biggest problem by far is people hogging the left lane.  It's either older people who don't care that they're slowing traffic or younger people using their phones and not knowing that they're driving slower and holding up traffic.  There's days I pass more on the right than the left.

The state patrol should emphasize enforcement in ticketing drivers who stay in the left lane without attempting to pass and camp out in that lane.  That would help cut down on the root of the problem with I-41.  The speed limit isn't an issue at all.


Part of the problem is the truck traffic as well.  That slows everyone down because you have trucks going 70 mph and people passing them going 72.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: MantyMadTown on October 17, 2018, 01:01:42 AM
Quote from: Big John on October 17, 2018, 12:42:29 AM
Would be odd going 70 in an urban area going to 55 in a rural area.  Opposite of what is expected.

I think they would slow it down in Green Bay too.


There is zero reason to slow it down in Green Bay.  The three lanes with exit lanes means traffic is moving just fine even at the height of rush hour.

mgk920

Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 17, 2018, 08:57:38 AM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on October 17, 2018, 01:01:42 AM
Quote from: Big John on October 17, 2018, 12:42:29 AM
Would be odd going 70 in an urban area going to 55 in a rural area.  Opposite of what is expected.

I think they would slow it down in Green Bay too.

There is zero reason to slow it down in Green Bay.  The three lanes with exit lanes means traffic is moving just fine even at the height of rush hour.

Most of I-41 in the Green Bay area is FOUR through lanes in each direction, roomy as all get-go and with free-flowing traffic even after Packer games.  The big post-game backups are now where it condenses from three to two southbound lanes just southwest of Scheuring Rd and on to the Appleton area, normally backing up to about the final on-ramp merge at Ashland Ave.

Mike

Roadguy

Quote from: msunat97 on October 16, 2018, 05:28:34 PM
https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/10/09/outagamie-officials-seek-brown-county-support-41-speed-limit/1565346002/

What does everyone think about this article?  Seems like a Band-Aid solution to this problem.

Seems like the forest is on fire and they are filling the gas can to fuel it more. If anything they are tearing the band aid off and making the wound worse :eyebrow:

Artificially lowering the speed limit by using signage will do nothing.  If anything it will create a larger speed differential... more crashes are guaranteed as the rule followers will do 60 and the rule breakers (They won't be able to enforce it enough to bring down these drivers to 60) will do 70 weaving in and out between lanes to pass slower drivers.  These maneuvers only cause more crashes.

They only way they slow drivers down to 55 from 70 is by changing roadway context and that is not going to happen on a rural freeway section.  One thing to consider would be more low cost ITS technologies: additional message boards, ramp meters to create gaps in traffic entering 41 (drivers are bad at merging, this spreads them out), if permissible by state law consideration of variable speed limits set by DOT, and lane control designation signs to help when incidents occur.  Pair that with enforcement (add some hidden enforcement pads as they did with the 41 projects in Winnebago & Brown counties) of existing speeding issues, tailgating, and slow drivers in the left lane rules and they would see much better results.

peterj920

I-43 is finally smoothed out in Northern Ozaukee County with the latest diamond grind.  No dowel bar retrofit so how long will it last?  Also interesting that the short freeway section of Wis 57 isn't getting worked on. 

SEWIGuy

Quote from: msunat97 on October 16, 2018, 05:28:34 PM
https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/10/09/outagamie-officials-seek-brown-county-support-41-speed-limit/1565346002/

What does everyone think about this article?  Seems like a Band-Aid solution to this problem.


So the Outagamie County Board did pass a resolution last night.  It is requesting a 55 mph zone from County BB (Prospect Ave.) outside of Appleton to County J near Kaukauna. 

dvferyance

#2290
Quote from: FightingIrish on October 15, 2018, 09:24:46 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 15, 2018, 08:58:19 AM
It would be a good opportunity to decommission WI-241 and end WI-36 at I-41/43/894.
Unlikely. WIS 241 is a pretty major road on the south side. Also lots of newer development there. Plus, the counties typically hold on to state route mileage until needed for other projects (such as WIS 794 replacing WIS 62, or Waukesha County dropping WIS 74 to complete the US 18 bypass). If any state route mileage leaves Milwaukee County, I would expect WIS 24 or parts of WIS 57 to go first.
I thought 74 was dropped because Menomonee Falls wanted it. It had nothing to do with the Waukesha bypass as 18 inside the bypass was turned over to the city of Waukesha that was already the tradeoff with the bypass. Why would you want 241 decommissioned? Aside from it being a major route on the southside haven't we had more than enough of that already? I know many disagree with me on this but I think the 74 decommissioning was a huge mistake it being once the major route between I-41 and the Sussex Pewaukee area. Now that Menomonee Falls owns the road they put that stupid truck weight limit on it while the Sussex Pewaukee areas has a lot of major industries including Quad Graphics. Now trucks have to take major detours to get to them. It was unfair that the falls got what they wanted but Sussex and Pewaukee had no say in it. We had to screw up industry just so the falls could make their downtown perfect not very smart.

SEWIGuy

#2291
Quote from: dvferyance on October 24, 2018, 12:15:54 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on October 15, 2018, 09:24:46 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 15, 2018, 08:58:19 AM
It would be a good opportunity to decommission WI-241 and end WI-36 at I-41/43/894.
Unlikely. WIS 241 is a pretty major road on the south side. Also lots of newer development there. Plus, the counties typically hold on to state route mileage until needed for other projects (such as WIS 794 replacing WIS 62, or Waukesha County dropping WIS 74 to complete the US 18 bypass). If any state route mileage leaves Milwaukee County, I would expect WIS 24 or parts of WIS 57 to go first.
I thought 74 was dropped because Menomonee Falls wanted it. It had nothing to do with the Waukesha bypass as 18 inside the bypass was turned over to the city of Waukesha that was already the tradeoff with the bypass. Why would you want 241 decommissioned? Aside from it being a major route on the southside haven't we had more than enough of that already? I know many disagree with me on this but I think the 74 decommissioning was a huge mistake it being once the major route between I-41 and the Sussex Pewaukee area. Now that Menomonee Falls owns the road they put that stupid truck weight limit on it while the Sussex Pewaukee areas has a lot of major industries including Quad Graphics. Now trucks have to take major detours to get to them. It was unfair that the falls got what they wanted but Sussex and Pewaukee had no say in it. We had to screw up industry just so the falls could make their downtown perfect not very smart.


WI-74 was decommissioned when WI-318 came about. And 318 is much more important than WI-74.

And I want WI-241 decommissioned because I don't see much purpose to state highways on major city streets.  Unless they aid navigation, why even have them?

So I would have all highways end at WI-100 in Milwaukee.  I would reroute US-151 in Madison to the freeways.  The only route that would survive in Green Bay is US-141, etc.  That doesn't mean that they would go without state funding.  Just no longer signed. 

The Ghostbuster

As a remnant of US 41's former route, I think the STH-241 designation has merit. As for US 151 being rerouted to the freeways around Madison, I doubt that will ever happen. Maybe someday, Chris Bessert will find the time to update his Wisconsin Highways website to include STH-318 in the Routes 200-399 page.

DaBigE

Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 24, 2018, 01:10:16 PM
...And I want WI-241 decommissioned because I don't see much purpose to state highways on major city streets.  Unless they aid navigation, why even have them?...

Out of curiosity, what constitutes a "major city street"? Should WIS 23 disappear within Fond du Lac? WIS 125 in Appleton? While I can see merit to a few of them (e.g., US 151 in Madison, but based on volume), I see the potential for a lot of unnecessary multiplexes or black holes in routing. Other than a few extra signs, I don't see what they're hurting.
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

triplemultiplex

Quote from: dvferyance on October 24, 2018, 12:15:54 PM
I know many disagree with me on this but I think the 74 decommissioning was a huge mistake it being once the major route between I-41 and the Sussex Pewaukee area. Now that Menomonee Falls owns the road they put that stupid truck weight limit on it while the Sussex Pewaukee areas has a lot of major industries including Quad Graphics. Now trucks have to take major detours to get to them. It was unfair that the falls got what they wanted but Sussex and Pewaukee had no say in it. We had to screw up industry just so the falls could make their downtown perfect not very smart.

I don't think WI 74 was the best truck route to get to Quad Graphics from I-41 anyway.  But I do agree there were more worth state highway demotions in that region that could've been used instead.  (Like WI 57 south of Port; or at least south of Capitol Dr)




I drove the two-lane WI 23 just last week and I'm still convinced there are better places for WI to spend money than on four-laning that road.  Hold the R/W, for sure, but I've never seen the volume to justify it every time I go there.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

JREwing78

Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 24, 2018, 01:10:16 PM
So I would have all highways end at WI-100 in Milwaukee.  I would reroute US-151 in Madison to the freeways.  The only route that would survive in Green Bay is US-141, etc.  That doesn't mean that they would go without state funding.  Just no longer signed. 

There's a purpose to the US-151 routing through downtown Madison. Personally, I'd would reroute US-151 to the Beltline and I-39/90, but then sign a new Hwy 1 on John Nolen Drive from the Beltline, then over the current US-151 routing back to I-39/90/94.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: JREwing78 on October 24, 2018, 07:31:24 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 24, 2018, 01:10:16 PM
So I would have all highways end at WI-100 in Milwaukee.  I would reroute US-151 in Madison to the freeways.  The only route that would survive in Green Bay is US-141, etc.  That doesn't mean that they would go without state funding.  Just no longer signed. 

There's a purpose to the US-151 routing through downtown Madison. Personally, I'd would reroute US-151 to the Beltline and I-39/90, but then sign a new Hwy 1 on John Nolen Drive from the Beltline, then over the current US-151 routing back to I-39/90/94.


What is the purpose?  It's not the direct route through downtown, especially on the west side.  It sends drivers down Park Street, which is the long way to get anywhere.

MantyMadTown

Quote from: JREwing78 on October 24, 2018, 07:31:24 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 24, 2018, 01:10:16 PM
So I would have all highways end at WI-100 in Milwaukee.  I would reroute US-151 in Madison to the freeways.  The only route that would survive in Green Bay is US-141, etc.  That doesn't mean that they would go without state funding.  Just no longer signed. 

There's a purpose to the US-151 routing through downtown Madison. Personally, I'd would reroute US-151 to the Beltline and I-39/90, but then sign a new Hwy 1 on John Nolen Drive from the Beltline, then over the current US-151 routing back to I-39/90/94.

I like the John Nolen Drive idea. It seems like a much better fit for the route than Park St.
Forget the I-41 haters

paulthemapguy

Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 24, 2018, 09:19:12 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on October 24, 2018, 07:31:24 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 24, 2018, 01:10:16 PM
So I would have all highways end at WI-100 in Milwaukee.  I would reroute US-151 in Madison to the freeways.  The only route that would survive in Green Bay is US-141, etc.  That doesn't mean that they would go without state funding.  Just no longer signed. 

There's a purpose to the US-151 routing through downtown Madison. Personally, I'd would reroute US-151 to the Beltline and I-39/90, but then sign a new Hwy 1 on John Nolen Drive from the Beltline, then over the current US-151 routing back to I-39/90/94.
What is the purpose?  It's not the direct route through downtown, especially on the west side.  It sends drivers down Park Street, which is the long way to get anywhere.

Trucks.  Trucks need a truck route into places.  Using Indianapolis as an example for a place with no state or US routes, I don't understand how we allow state DOTs to abandon their responsibility to maintain a thorough network of truck routes.  Now that Indianapolis canceled every US and state route inside of I-465, I haven't the foggiest idea where you would be allowed to drive a truck.  Of course, there ARE still truck routes, but they aren't maintained by the state.  Madison has more truck routes too, other than US151, but I don't see why a municipality would want to maintain the truck routes, since they're the most heavily damaged by far, and thus the costliest to maintain.
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mgk920

There is traffic that transits the Madison area between US 151 to the northeast and US 151 to the southwest and it is difficult to describe the 'best' routing (the interstate and the Beltline) to some of those drivers, who are unfamiliar with the area.  This is very similar to what the situation WRT US 41 through Milwaukee County was for travelers between Chicagoland and the Fox Valley (Appleton, Oshkosh, etc) before I-41 was marked.  For that reason, I would reroute US 151 to follow that all-freeway routing and give the current through town route a new number.

As for US 141, I'd decommission it south of the Abrams interchange (US 41 split north of metro Green Bay).

Mike



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