Football (North America: NFL, CFL, Arena Football, minor leagues)

[Stephane Dumas]

I taught of starting a general topic about the football in North America who talk about the NFL, CFL, Arena Football and minor leagues.

I spotted this news via City-Data forums http://www.city-data.com/forum/cleveland/1650217-cleveland-browns-being-sold.html who mentionned then the current Cleveland Browns are sold to a new owner. http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/27/browns-owner-randy-lerner-sell-team-negotiations/?section=si_latest

Will the Cleveland Browns end their curse?

And there a new attempt to revive the USFL, this time as a developmental minor league for Spring 2013. http://espn.go.com/nfl/conversations/_/id/7916459/usfl-return-fred-biletnikoff-advisers

[mgk920]

With the chaos that the NCAA seems to be steadily turning into, perhaps we'll ultimately see a baseball-style minor league system for the NFL.

Mike

[golden eagle]

I doubt it. The NFL uses the NCAA as a de facto minor league system. Look at all the money the save by not having their own developmental league. They did have NFL Europe, but it went by the wayside.

[nexus73]

My idea for NFL Spring Football would be a 16 team affair.  An AFC team would be paired with an NFC team to stock the roster and provide the coaches.  Since there are 32 teams, getting to 16 for NFL Spring Football is workable.

Four divisions.  Four division champs plus two wild cards for playoffs, which makes for three weeks of playoffs.  Have the championship game on the weekend closest to the 4th of July.  That way the players have time to rest up a bit before heading off to the regular season training camp. 

Move the NFL Draft to the week after the Super Bowl.  Start the NFL spring season two weeks later, which is enough time to get the majority of drafted players signed.  No pre-season games, just regular season and the playoffs.  That gives enough time to play a 16 game spring season.  Play the divisional opponents twice for 6 of those games.  Play 10 of the other 12 teams for the balance of the schedule. 

Good locations abound.  LA has wanted pro football for so long!  San Antonio and Syracuse have domed stadiums.  Birmingham and Orlando have had non-NFL pro football.  Honolulu would be nice, especially in the first month, as a hosting team while the winter recedes.  Las Vegas, Portland, Sacramento...all would be encouraged to come up with pro-grade stadiums and whoever ponies up gets the NFL Spring team as well as a good look when the NFL chooses to expand.  Orlando has a nice stadium and is the former home of a non-NFL pro team.  Memphis was the original Tennessee Titans location. 

Major cities with an NFL team like NYC, Chicago, Philly and Houston will likely make good candidates for a spring team.  There's already stadiums in place in those cities, which makes these cities good places to look at.

The NFL's name recognition is so high that there will be no problem with them getting network contracts and they would have the NFL Network to fill in the broadcast schedule.  TV money is what makes the sports world go 'round after all and the NFL can get plenty for their product!

Year-round football.  Three cheers for that!

Rick

[1995hoo]

Spring football existed for three years in the early 1980s under the name "USFL." The NFL tried it in the early 1990s with the WLAF, but it only lasted two years before they shut it down and relaunched it later as an all-European league.

San Antonio had a USFL team (the Gunslingers) and it proved disastrous due to a lack of financing. The new stadium is a lot nicer than the old one was and their CFL team was slightly more successful than the Gunslingers were, although they only lasted one season before all the American teams folded (except the Baltimore Stallions, who moved to Montreal).

In terms of non-NFL cities in the USA–other than Los Angeles–that have had teams in major pro leagues since 1970: Birmingham (WFL, USFL, WLAF, CFL, XFL); Columbus (WLAF); Honolulu (WFL); Las Vegas (CFL, XFL); Memphis (WFL, USFL, CFL, XFL); Orlando (WFL, USFL, WLAF, XFL); Portland (WFL, USFL); Raleigh-Durham (WLAF); Sacramento (WLAF; CFL); San Antonio (WFL, USFL, WLAF, CFL); Shreveport (WFL); Tulsa (USFL)

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

I spotted this news via City-Data forums http://www.city-data.com/forum/cleveland/1650217-cleveland-browns-being-sold.html who mentionned then the current Cleveland Browns are sold to a new owner. http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/27/browns-owner-randy-lerner-sell-team-negotiations/?section=si_latest

Will the Cleveland Browns end their curse?

The curse of Ernie Davis.
Nope, no part time owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers from Tennessee will change the fortunes of Cleveland.
Not in their lifetime it will.

[realjd]

Aren't the CFL and AFL the de facto pro development leagues - other than college that is. I'm more of a college football fan myself. The play isn't as precise and sterile IMO. There is just enough sloppiness to make it interesting while maintaining a high level of play.

It seems like every year or two there is talk of an international NFL expansion team - usually London. Do you guys think it's a good idea or not?

[Alps]

Aren't the CFL and AFL the de facto pro development leagues - other than college that is. I'm more of a college football fan myself. The play isn't as precise and sterile IMO. There is just enough sloppiness to make it interesting while maintaining a high level of play.

It seems like every year or two there is talk of an international NFL expansion team - usually London. Do you guys think it's a good idea or not?

CFL is a separate league, with separate rules, and I've noticed very little crossover. By AFL I assume you mean Arena, as Australian football is even more different than Canadian. Arena seems to be where ex-NFLers wind up when they're not talented enough to make the pro roster. In general, it seems that most football players make the squad coming out of college through the draft, and very few players transition from other leagues.

London: Bad idea. The only thing worse than every team getting jet-lagged going to and from there would be the amount of jet lag the London team would experience.

[mgk920]

I can see the NFL setting up shop in Toronto, one or two western Canadian cities and perhaps even a couple of Mexican cities within my lifetime.  *NO* expansion outside of North America, though.

Mike

[english si]

NFL certainly put in a bid for the Olympic Stadium to have as an American Football stadium post-games - which suggests that they want more than one game, else renting Wembley would be enough (and it's a bigger stadium).

Quite right about the jet lag though.

Might see a Superbowl over here.

[texaskdog]

I really enjoyed the USFL last time.  Would have been a great league had Trump not destroyed it with the stupid fall move.  Much more exciting football than the boring NFL.  Will give me something to augment my enjoyment of college football.  But they'll have to try hard to follow the original USFL model and not wind up being more like the UFL.

[texaskdog]

I can see the NFL setting up shop in Toronto, one or two western Canadian cities and perhaps even a couple of Mexican cities within my lifetime.  *NO* expansion outside of North America, though.

Mike

Only cities really big enough are Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver, but I think they could make a go in all of them.  CFL is very different.

[realjd]

I can see the NFL setting up shop in Toronto, one or two western Canadian cities and perhaps even a couple of Mexican cities within my lifetime.  *NO* expansion outside of North America, though.

Mike

Only cities really big enough are Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver, but I think they could make a go in all of them.  CFL is very different.

That's not true. Calgary, Ottawa, and Edmonton all have over 1 million people in their metro areas. If a small city like Buffalo, Green Bay,  Pittsburgh, or Charlotte can support a team, I fail to see why other large Canadian cities couldn't.

[english si]

Surely, however, there's only 32 NFL teams that they plant somewhere? If you give LA or Toronto or wherever a team, then you are taking it away from somewhere else.

Though you could double the number of teams by having a second tier, with 4th place from each top division swapping with the 1st place in the respective 2nd tier division. This also gives the drama of relegation.

[1995hoo]

Toronto's biggest problem is stadium size. It's simply too small (around 54,000) and it results in very high ticket prices when the Buffalo Bills play a home game there each year. Olympic Stadium in Montreal is more realistic at around 66,000 for football, but it's a terrible stadium. The Alouettes don't normally play there except for playoff games and occasional big games during the regular season.

I believe the provincial and national governments have resisted allowing American football leagues into Toronto for fear of harming the Argonauts. The World Football League back in the mid-1970s wanted to put a team in Toronto but backed down when the Trudeau Administration introduced a bill in Parliament that would have banned foreign-based football leagues from playing in Canada.

The Montreal franchise in the WLAF presumably didn't meet the same opposition because that league's schedule ran from March through June, which doesn't overlap the CFL's schedule. Compare to the original World Football League, which played a 20-game schedule from early July to mid-November, i.e. concurrent with the CFL schedule.

[texaskdog]

I can see the NFL setting up shop in Toronto, one or two western Canadian cities and perhaps even a couple of Mexican cities within my lifetime.  *NO* expansion outside of North America, though.

Mike

Only cities really big enough are Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver, but I think they could make a go in all of them.  CFL is very different.

That's not true. Calgary, Ottawa, and Edmonton all have over 1 million people in their metro areas. If a small city like Buffalo, Green Bay,  Pittsburgh, or Charlotte can support a team, I fail to see why other large Canadian cities couldn't.

Green Bay is it's own animal, Pittsburgh is successful, some of the NFL markets though like Buffalo & Jacksonville are pretty marginal.   Oddly Cities like Birmingham, Tampa, Jacksonville, and Memphis were some of the USFL's most successful, while they failed in LA & Chicago

[triplemultiplex]

I spotted this news via City-Data forums http://www.city-data.com/forum/cleveland/1650217-cleveland-browns-being-sold.html who mentionned then the current Cleveland Browns are sold to a new owner. http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/27/browns-owner-randy-lerner-sell-team-negotiations/?section=si_latest

Will the Cleveland Browns end their curse?

Hey they've got Matt Flynn at QB now, and that will certainly help things.

[Alps]

Surely, however, there's only 32 NFL teams that they plant somewhere? If you give LA or Toronto or wherever a team, then you are taking it away from somewhere else.

Though you could double the number of teams by having a second tier, with 4th place from each top division swapping with the 1st place in the respective 2nd tier division. This also gives the drama of relegation.

Problem with relegation in America is that people will only support top-tier teams with their money. (People support minor leagues, but not to the same extent, and far cheaper to get tickets.) What if you're a star and your team got relegated? It works in soccer where each town or neighborhood has a strong attachment to its own team, such that there's no switching of allegiance during relegation.
Anyway, I don't see the NFL moving into Canada beyond Toronto. Of what you mentioned, Vancouver is close to Seattle, Montreal is too French*, and other cities already have the CFL.
* Quebec just treats sports differently. They loved the Expos, but never came out after the 1994 strike-shortened season. I can't see them getting behind the NFL.

[nexus73]

I spotted this news via City-Data forums http://www.city-data.com/forum/cleveland/1650217-cleveland-browns-being-sold.html who mentionned then the current Cleveland Browns are sold to a new owner. http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/27/browns-owner-randy-lerner-sell-team-negotiations/?section=si_latest

Will the Cleveland Browns end their curse?

Hey they've got Matt Flynn at QB now, and that will certainly help things.

How is Matt Flynn going to help Cleveland?  He's a Seahawk.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82ae17dd/article/matt-flynn-tarvaris-jackson-in-seahawks-qb-race

Rick

[texaskdog]

Cleveland Browns can keep their curse after the joke of a "gap".  It's one of those cities that once a team leaves, they become good.

[formulanone]

Though you could double the number of teams by having a second tier, with 4th place from each top division swapping with the 1st place in the respective 2nd tier division. This also gives the drama of relegation.

College football essentially has a multi-tier system; you're either in a BCS division or not, or in a different division: FCS (old 1-A), rather than FBS (old 1-AA). Every couple of years, an FCS team jumps up to the FBS level, although it's rare to hear of a school going in the opposite direction.

[texaskdog]

Though you could double the number of teams by having a second tier, with 4th place from each top division swapping with the 1st place in the respective 2nd tier division. This also gives the drama of relegation.

College football essentially has a multi-tier system; you're either in a BCS division or not, or in a different division: FCS (old 1-A), rather than FBS (old 1-AA). Every couple of years, an FCS team jumps up to the FBS level, although it's rare to hear of a school going in the opposite direction.

Some FBS teams really need to drop down to the FCS.  Eastern Michigan is the best example.  Kent State and others haven't been to a bowl in years and barely avg 15,000 per game.

[triplemultiplex]

How is Matt Flynn going to help Cleveland?  He's a Seahawk.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82ae17dd/article/matt-flynn-tarvaris-jackson-in-seahawks-qb-race

Rick

Whoops, total brain fart right there.
Derp!

[pianocello]

Speaking of college football, preseason coaches' rankings are released (as if it matters at all). Looks like this will be another dominating year for the SEC. 

[texaskdog]

Sounds like Florida State & USC will be the teams to beat.