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Historic traffic flow to Stemmons Freeway

Started by theline, November 24, 2013, 08:39:53 PM

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theline

Banish me to "Off Topic" if you must, but I think my question belongs here, because I'm asking about traffic flow.

Some JFK assassination conspiracists have latched onto the odd route of the motorcade near the Texas School Book Depository, with the 2 tight turns at Dealey Plaza. They also (wrongly) contend that the route was changed, offering as "proof" a map from the Dallas Morning News that omitted the turns. The map was actually a simplified diagram, which omitted the turns due to lack of space to show them clearly.

My question is, with the road alignment existing in 1963, whether is was essential for the motorcade to turn from Main onto Houston and then on Elm to reach the Stemmons Freeway?

Checking the Goog, it looks like the current alignment prohibits traffic from Main, passing under the Triple Underpass to reach the Stemmons ramp. Is there anyone out there as old as me, who can verify whether the alignment was the same 50 years ago?


NE2

Yes, the barrier was there back in 1958 (and even in 1952 before the ramps were built - back then the triple underpass was three side-by-side two-way roads!).
http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=3&lat=32.778&lon=-96.81&year=1958
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

theline

It's hard to see the barrier, at least to these old eyes. I'll take your word for it though.

Thanks.

NE2

Quote from: theline on November 24, 2013, 11:45:10 PM
It's hard to see the barrier, at least to these old eyes. I'll take your word for it though.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

lordsutch

It does beg the question (hindsight being 20-20) why the motorcade didn't just use Elm through downtown rather than going down Main Street, particularly given the Secret Service's concern that the turns would make the car an unacceptably slow target.

NE2

Quote from: lordsutch on November 25, 2013, 03:44:37 AM
It does beg the question (hindsight being 20-20) why the motorcade didn't just use Elm through downtown rather than going down Main Street, particularly given the Secret Service's concern that the turns would make the car an unacceptably slow target.
The Warren Commission report covers both questions: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/route.htm
and includes some old sign porn: http://books.google.com/books?id=uSywAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA35
QuoteElm Street, parallel to Main Street and one block north, was not used for the main portion of the downtown part of the motorcade because Main Street offered better vantage points for spectators.

To reach the Trade Mart from Main Street the agents decided to use the Stemmons Freeway (Route No. 77), the most direct route. The only practical way for westbound traffic on Main Street to reach the northbound lanes of the Stemmons Freeway is via Elm Street, which Route No. 77 traffic is instructed to follow in this part of the city. Elm Street was to be reached from Main by turning right at Houston, going one block north and then turning left onto Elm. On this last portion of the journey, only 5 minutes from the Trade Mart, the President's motorcade would pass the Texas School Book Depository Building on the northwest corner of Houston and Elm Streets. . . .

The Elm Street approach to the Stemmons Freeway is necessary in order to avoid the traffic hazards which would otherwise exist if right turns were permitted from both Main and Elm into the freeway. To create this traffic pattern, a concrete barrier between Main and Elm Streets presents an obstacle to a right turn from Main across Elm to the access road to Stemmons Freeway and the Dallas-Fort Worth Turnpike. This concrete barrier extends far enough beyond the access road to make it impracticable for vehicles to turn right from Main directly to the access road. A sign located on this barrier instructs Main Street traffic not to make any turns. In conformity with these arrangements, traffic proceeding west on Main is directed to turn right at Houston in order to reach the Dallas-Fort Worth Turnpike, which has the same access road from Elm Street as does the Stemmons Freeway.

Next up: was George Soros in charge of the freeway plans that included the barrier?
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Urban Prairie Schooner

Quote from: NE2 on November 24, 2013, 09:29:28 PM
Yes, the barrier was there back in 1958 (and even in 1952 before the ramps were built - back then the triple underpass was three side-by-side two-way roads!).
http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=3&lat=32.778&lon=-96.81&year=1958


Somewhere on YouTube there is a video of Dallas in the 1950s which showed the Main/Elm/Commerce confluence in action before Elm and Commerce were made one-way streets. From what can be seen in the video, channelizing the routes into the current setup definitely improved traffic flow.

SquonkHunter

Quote from: Urban Prairie Schooner on November 25, 2013, 08:57:52 AM
Quote from: NE2 on November 24, 2013, 09:29:28 PM
Yes, the barrier was there back in 1958 (and even in 1952 before the ramps were built - back then the triple underpass was three side-by-side two-way roads!).
http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=3&lat=32.778&lon=-96.81&year=1958


Somewhere on YouTube there is a video of Dallas in the 1950s which showed the Main/Elm/Commerce confluence in action before Elm and Commerce were made one-way streets. From what can be seen in the video, channelizing the routes into the current setup definitely improved traffic flow.

This is it: Report to Dallas - 1955 
http://www.texasarchive.org/library/index.php?title=Report_to_Dallas&p=video1&b=0&e
According to Report to Dallas, "Traffic is the lifeblood of the city. Slow down the traffic, and the heartbeat slows down. Stop it, and the city dies." Due to rapid growth during the 1950s, traffic congestion became a critical issue facing Dallas. In response, city planners and the Dallas Citizens Traffic Commission worked to keep traffic moving safely and efficiently; their efforts are documented in this film. The Dallas Citizens Traffic Commission was formed in 1936 and, by the 1950s, included citizens from every Dallas civic organization. Their mission was to improve traffic safety and efficiency for Dallas citizens.




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