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Austin: IH 35 rebuild

Started by MaxConcrete, April 25, 2019, 12:03:01 AM

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MaxConcrete

#150
Bids were opened today for work in north Austin. This project mainly adds a managed lane in each direction, and also multiple frontage road intersection bypasses (allowing frontage road traffic to avoid intersections)  and some auxiliary lanes on the main lanes. This is separate from the expensive and controversial central project.

http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/08033057.htm

This project is expensive. The estimate is $571 million and the low bid is $607 million, but the estimate is vastly higher than what I remember seeing a few weeks ago, which was between three and four hundred million.

County:   TRAVIS   Let Date:   08/03/22
Type:   WIDEN ROAD - ADD LANES   Seq No:   3057
Time:   1791 WORKING DAYS   Project ID:   F 2022(437)
Highway:   IH 35   Contract #:   08223057
Length:   7.600   CCSJ:   0015-10-062
Limits:   
From:   SH 45N   Check:   $100,000
To:   FM 1825   Misc Cost:   
Estimate   $570,810,419.19   % Over/Under   Company
Bidder 1   $606,855,894.98   +6.31%   PULICE CONSTRUCTION, INC.
Bidder 2   $698,272,090.74   +22.33%   WEBBER, LLC
Bidder 3   $789,422,652.19   +38.30%   WILLIAMS BROTHERS CONSTRUCTION CO., INC.
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com


thisdj78

Quote from: MaxConcrete on August 03, 2022, 07:07:36 PM
Bids were opened today for work in north Austin. This project mainly adds a managed lane in each direction, and also multiple frontage road intersection bypasses (allowing frontage road traffic to avoid intersections)  and some auxiliary lanes on the main lanes. This is separate from the expensive and controversial central project.

http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/08033057.htm

This project is expensive. The estimate is $571 million and the low bid is $607 million, but the estimate is vastly higher than what I remember seeing a few weeks ago, which was between three and four hundred million.

County:   TRAVIS   Let Date:   08/03/22
Type:   WIDEN ROAD - ADD LANES   Seq No:   3057
Time:   1791 WORKING DAYS   Project ID:   F 2022(437)
Highway:   IH 35   Contract #:   08223057
Length:   7.600   CCSJ:   0015-10-062
Limits:   
From:   SH 45N   Check:   $100,000
To:   FM 1825   Misc Cost:   
Estimate   $570,810,419.19   % Over/Under   Company
Bidder 1   $606,855,894.98   +6.31%   PULICE CONSTRUCTION, INC.
Bidder 2   $698,272,090.74   +22.33%   WEBBER, LLC
Bidder 3   $789,422,652.19   +38.30%   WILLIAMS BROTHERS CONSTRUCTION CO., INC.

I wonder if that work will include completing the south end direct connectors from I35 to 45 toll. It would make sense to do that all at the same time.

Duke87

Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 06, 2022, 05:23:15 PM
Developers pull that crap all the time, build a housing development in a location directly in the path of where a future freeway or toll road is planned.

And from a business perspective there is relatively little reason not to. Freeway construction/expansion projects get canceled or indefinitely punted on all the time, so you may well be holding off on building on account of a project that never comes to fruition. And if the project does move forward... well, then the state will have to buy the building from you so you'll recoup your investment either way.

It is for this reason that states used to begin the ROW acquisition process for roads sometimes years before they planned to start actually trying to build them, to stop the land from being built on and becoming more expensive to purchase. But it's not really feasible to do this anymore since the nature of the EIS process now makes it such that the routing is never finalized until the project is about to begin.

If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

MaxConcrete

Quote from: thisdj78 on August 04, 2022, 09:57:48 AM
I wonder if that work will include completing the south end direct connectors from I35 to 45 toll. It would make sense to do that all at the same time.
I have the schematic from March 2021 and it shows no improvements at the SH 45 intersection. I agree, it would be desirable to get the south side of the interchange built, but it's not in this project.
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

MaxConcrete

Kirk Watson won the Austin mayoral runoff tonight over Celia Israel with a very thin margin. Watson is a former mayor and former state Senator, and is more like a traditional Democrat. He has been a proponent of the I-35 project. I don't know Israel's position, but she is a progressive Democrat.

So this is good news for the project.

Maybe someone in Austin who knows more about Watson's level of support for the project can comment.
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

thisdj78

Quote from: MaxConcrete on December 14, 2022, 12:55:27 AM
Kirk Watson won the Austin mayoral runoff tonight over Celia Israel with a very thin margin. Watson is a former mayor and former state Senator, and is more like a traditional Democrat. He has been a proponent of the I-35 project. I don't know Israel's position, but she is a progressive Democrat.

So this is good news for the project.

Maybe someone in Austin who knows more about Watson's level of support for the project can comment.

He supports the TXDOT project. I'm not in the city of Austin but I remember him as mayor during my college days and was hoping he would pull off a win:

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/south-texas-el-paso/news/2022/12/08/i35-expansion-mayoral-election

MaxConcrete

A public meeting for the DEIS is scheduled Feb 9
https://www.txdot.gov/projects/hearings-meetings/austin/i35-capital-express-central-project-02-09-22.html

There were two options still being considered: Alternative 2 and Modified Alternative 3. Modified Alternative 3 has the boulevard-style design downtown and is somewhat smaller in certain locations. MA3 includes a lot of modifications requested by City of Austin, and from that perspective is more politically acceptable.

The recommended alternative is Modified Alternative 3. This is expected, and should enable the project to get full City of Austin support.

The main casualties of Modified Alternative 3 vs Alternative 2 are

  • No managed lane connections to US 290 on the north side
  • Only two managed lanes (one each way) north of 51st Street
  • Woodland Avenue does not cross over the freeway, and main lanes are reduced at this location compared to Alternative 2.
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

Echostatic

I think you have to compromise somewhat with the city if only to cut down on the number of inevitable lawsuits this project will spawn. MA3 is clearly a massive improvement over the current highway, and it accomplishes almost all of the traffic relief goals.
Travelled in part or in full.

longhorn

Where is the additional lanes? The same amount of lanes now, four lanes each way.

MaxConcrete

Quote from: longhorn on December 30, 2022, 10:17:37 AM
Where is the additional lanes? The same amount of lanes now, four lanes each way.

The new lanes are the managed lanes. Some sections have long auxiliary lanes, making it 5x5 for substantial lengths, for example around Dean Keaton street. There are multiple instances of frontage road bypass lanes, especially downtown, which will relieve the main lanes. But you are correct that the main lanes count remains mostly the same.
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

Bobby5280

The configuration reminds me of some of the 2x2x2x2 nonsense along I-820 that ended up being built on the North side of Fort Worth.
:-/

sprjus4

Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 30, 2022, 09:46:00 PM
The configuration reminds me of some of the 2x2x2x2 nonsense along I-820 that ended up being built on the North side of Fort Worth.
:-/
How.. exactly?

The schematics for Modified Alternative 3 shows 4 general purpose lanes and 2 express lanes in each direction... for a layout of 4x2x2x4, along with auxiliary lanes and frontage road bypass ramps in areas.

Bobby5280

I was under the impression they removed more lanes from the scope of the project.

Even if they do manage to maintain a 4x2x2x4 configuration, the 11' wide lanes thing throughout the project stinks. Even in a normal sized sedan like a Nissan Altima skinny lanes will make you feel like you're danger close to trading paint with vehicles in the adjacent lanes. So many of us drive full sized pickup trucks and SUVs, which makes those 11' lanes feel even more cramped.

sprjus4

^ That I certainly agree with, the FHWA should not sign off on allowing TxDOT to reduce interstate design standards on virtually every urban widening project nowadays it seems. Especially on a corridor that handles a large amount of truck traffic... it is very dangerous and compromises safety.

CtrlAltDel

#164
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 30, 2022, 10:44:48 PM
I was under the impression they removed more lanes from the scope of the project.

Even if they do manage to maintain a 4x2x2x4 configuration, the 11' wide lanes thing throughout the project stinks. Even in a normal sized sedan like a Nissan Altima skinny lanes will make you feel like you're danger close to trading paint with vehicles in the adjacent lanes. So many of us drive full sized pickup trucks and SUVs, which makes those 11' lanes feel even more cramped.

I was under the impression that 11-foot lanes do not increase accidents by all that much. Going less than that does, but 11 is essentially good enough. I can't find the cite right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if something like that is what justified it here.

The best I can do for now is from here, which shows what happens when n 12-foot lanes are replaced with n + 2 11-foot lanes (one more for each direction), the number of collisions often increases but, as a result of the increased throughput, the collision rate often decreases. I'm not sure if something like that is at play here, though.
Interstates clinched: 4, 57, 275 (IN-KY-OH), 465 (IN), 640 (TN), 985
State Interstates clinched: I-26 (TN), I-75 (GA), I-75 (KY), I-75 (TN), I-81 (WV), I-95 (NH)

Bobby5280

All I know is I really hate driving in 11' wide lanes as opposed to the normal 12' lanes. It's no fun at all in busy traffic. Portions of I-35E going North of Dallas have these skinny lanes. I make it a point to just avoid that route if I can do so when in the DFW metroplex. It can turn into too much of a cramped, white knuckle experience as opposed to other freeways in that area. The TX-114/TX-121 mix-master in Grapevine is pretty huge, but I think it's a breeze to drive through compared to I-35E.

MaxConcrete

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 31, 2022, 12:45:15 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 30, 2022, 10:44:48 PM
I was under the impression they removed more lanes from the scope of the project.

Even if they do manage to maintain a 4x2x2x4 configuration, the 11' wide lanes thing throughout the project stinks. Even in a normal sized sedan like a Nissan Altima skinny lanes will make you feel like you're danger close to trading paint with vehicles in the adjacent lanes. So many of us drive full sized pickup trucks and SUVs, which makes those 11' lanes feel even more cramped.

I was under the impression that 11-foot lanes do not increase accidents by all that much. Going less than that does, but 11 is essentially good enough. I can't find the cite right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if something like that is what justified it here.

The best I can do for now is from here, which shows what happens when n 12-foot lanes are replaced with n + 2 11-foot lanes (one more for each direction), the number of collisions often increases but, as a result of the increased throughput, the collision rate often decreases. I'm not sure if something like that is at play here, though.

I was surprised and disappointed to see the 11-foot-wide lanes for I-35, especially since it is a major truck route.

As CtrlAltDel mentions, I think 11-foot-wide lanes do not increase the accident rate and probably lower the accident rate. I don't know this for a fact and don't have time to investigate this subject right now. My speculation is that the reason is because driving in narrow lanes is more stressful, causing drivers to drive more slowly and attentively.

With TxDOT's push to lower highway deaths, a lower accident rate for 11-foot-wide lanes is a sufficient excuse to use the narrow lanes, even if they don't meet standards.

Unfortunately, every freeway with 11-foot-wide lanes being built will be in service for a very long time, maybe even to year 2100 in cases like I-35.
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

J N Winkler

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 31, 2022, 12:45:15 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 30, 2022, 10:44:48 PMI was under the impression they removed more lanes from the scope of the project.

Even if they do manage to maintain a 4x2x2x4 configuration, the 11' wide lanes thing throughout the project stinks. Even in a normal sized sedan like a Nissan Altima skinny lanes will make you feel like you're danger close to trading paint with vehicles in the adjacent lanes. So many of us drive full sized pickup trucks and SUVs, which makes those 11' lanes feel even more cramped.

I was under the impression that 11-foot lanes do not increase accidents by all that much. Going less than that does, but 11 is essentially good enough. I can't find the cite right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if something like that is what justified it here.

The best I can do for now is from here, which shows what happens when n 12-foot lanes are replaced with n + 2 11-foot lanes (one more for each direction), the number of collisions often increases but, as a result of the increased throughput, the collision rate often decreases. I'm not sure if something like that is at play here, though.

I don't know if Ezra Hauer's literature reviews (prepared, I think, as part of the work that ultimately led to the IHSDM) are still online, but one of them summarizes what research has to say about the unit lane width that minimizes injury accidents.  It lies between 11 feet and 12 feet but is actually closer to the former--I think the specific width is around 11.3 feet.

As a driver, though admittedly not of large or high vehicles, I've found 11-foot lanes are pretty hard to tell apart from 12-foot lanes unless one passes through a transition from one to the other that involves abrupt bends in lane stripes (example).  Do we know for a fact that I-35E actually uses 11-foot lanes and not a smaller unit lane width?  (In the case of the example linked to, I have actual construction plans from the 1980's and 1990's that show 11-foot lanes on one segment and 12-foot lanes on the next.)
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

CtrlAltDel

#168
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 31, 2022, 12:16:04 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 31, 2022, 12:45:15 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 30, 2022, 10:44:48 PMI was under the impression they removed more lanes from the scope of the project.

Even if they do manage to maintain a 4x2x2x4 configuration, the 11' wide lanes thing throughout the project stinks. Even in a normal sized sedan like a Nissan Altima skinny lanes will make you feel like you're danger close to trading paint with vehicles in the adjacent lanes. So many of us drive full sized pickup trucks and SUVs, which makes those 11' lanes feel even more cramped.

I was under the impression that 11-foot lanes do not increase accidents by all that much. Going less than that does, but 11 is essentially good enough. I can't find the cite right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if something like that is what justified it here.

The best I can do for now is from here, which shows what happens when n 12-foot lanes are replaced with n + 2 11-foot lanes (one more for each direction), the number of collisions often increases but, as a result of the increased throughput, the collision rate often decreases. I'm not sure if something like that is at play here, though.

I don't know if Ezra Hauer's literature reviews (prepared, I think, as part of the work that ultimately led to the IHSDM) are still online, but one of them summarizes what research has to say about the unit lane width that minimizes injury accidents.  It lies between 11 feet and 12 feet but is actually closer to the former--I think the specific width is around 11.3 feet.

As a driver, though admittedly not of large or high vehicles, I've found 11-foot lanes are pretty hard to tell apart from 12-foot lanes unless one passes through a transition from one to the other that involves abrupt bends in lane stripes (example).  Do we know for a fact that I-35E actually uses 11-foot lanes and not a smaller unit lane width?  (In the case of the example linked to, I have actual construction plans from the 1980's and 1990's that show 11-foot lanes on one segment and 12-foot lanes on the next.)

I believe a summary of that research might be the first result here.
Interstates clinched: 4, 57, 275 (IN-KY-OH), 465 (IN), 640 (TN), 985
State Interstates clinched: I-26 (TN), I-75 (GA), I-75 (KY), I-75 (TN), I-81 (WV), I-95 (NH)

thisdj78


sprjus4

Unless they have a plan to buy out the tolls on SH-130, I don't think re-routing truck traffic is going to be a feasible option. If they officially ban thru truck traffic, and truck traffic desires to avoid the toll road, it's either going to result in truck traffic ignoring the restriction and using I-35 anyways, or using alternative rural routes around the area, causing safety issues on those routes.

They also call for lower frontage road speed limits. While I understand the idea, the problem is with the way frontage roads work in Texas, frontage roads often serve as the final portion of an off-ramp for traffic exiting the freeway, and traffic often spills onto them at highway speeds. Being faced immediately with a 25 mph speed limit after coming off a 60 mph freeway ramp, if the ramp is not long enough to adequately slow down, will cause issues with traffic quickly braking, resulting in a ripple effect that, if traffic is too heavy, will spill back on the freeway.

Plutonic Panda


MaxConcrete

The lawsuit against the project has been dropped by the anti-project plaintiffs.

However, this is probably not the end of legal challenges. Anti-project folks are considering different legal approaches.

https://twitter.com/KUTnathan/status/1671178537930313731
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

MaxConcrete

The FEIS and ROD are officially released today. I have not yet studied any of the documents, but I think changes since the DEIS are minimal.

https://my35capex.com/final-environmental-impact-statement-eis-and-record-of-decision-rod/
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

thisdj78




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