I-27 vs US 84

[texaskdog]

Is the traffic count higher for US 84 south of Lubbock than I-27 north of Lubbock? Thinking with all the westbound traffic staying on 84 that it would be.  Curious then why the freeway was built north instead of south.

[adventurernumber1]

I don't understand why Interstate 27 was never built all the way to I-20 in the Midland/Odessa area.

Certainly doesn't set the traffic counts in stone, but I went on a few sections of US 84 southeast of Lubbock on Google Street View, and there was not a car in sight either bound.

[NE2]

Is the traffic count higher for US 84 south of Lubbock than I-27 north of Lubbock?

No. I-27 bottoms out at 7821 (around Tulia), while US 84 drops to 7419 (at Southland). Remember that there are three four-lane routes roughly south out of Lubbock (all of which get below 7500) but only two north.
http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/tpp/traffic_counts/2013/lbb_base.pdf
http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/tpp/traffic_counts/2013/abl_base.pdf

Long-haul truck volumes show a similar picture: http://www.ops.fhwa.dot.gov/Freight/freight_analysis/nat_freight_stats/nhsavglhft2011.htm

[texaskdog]

Is the traffic count higher for US 84 south of Lubbock than I-27 north of Lubbock?

No. I-27 bottoms out at 7821 (around Tulia), while US 84 drops to 7419 (at Southland). Remember that there are three four-lane routes roughly south out of Lubbock (all of which get below 7500) but only two north.
http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/tpp/traffic_counts/2013/lbb_base.pdf
http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/tpp/traffic_counts/2013/abl_base.pdf

Long-haul truck volumes show a similar picture: http://www.ops.fhwa.dot.gov/Freight/freight_analysis/nat_freight_stats/nhsavglhft2011.htm

dang work firewall doesn't like it.  will see at home.  I can't wait!

[longhorn]

There is plenty of traffic south of Lubbock. A lot of 84 is divided highway so upgrading to interstate status would not be too hard. Its an interesting drive, with some of o the landscape looking a lot like the Mars surface and traversing through HUNDREDS OF WINDMILLS closer to I-20. 

[txstateends]

I don't understand why Interstate 27 was never built all the way to I-20 in the Midland/Odessa area.

Years back I'd heard stories of squabbles over whether I-27 should come to/through Midland-Odessa or Big Spring.  I don't know how much of that was true.  Still odd to this day that an interstate within a state like Texas can't span more than ~125 miles.

[texaskdog]

yeah its the way we always take out west from austin

[bugo]

I don't understand why Interstate 27 was never built all the way to I-20 in the Midland/Odessa area.

Years back I'd heard stories of squabbles over whether I-27 should come to/through Midland-Odessa or Big Spring.  I don't know how much of that was true.  Still odd to this day that an interstate within a state like Texas can't span more than ~125 miles.

They can't agree on that but they build I-69E and I-69C along basically the same corridor.

[Grzrd]

I don't understand why Interstate 27 was never built all the way to I-20 in the Midland/Odessa area.

Years back I'd heard stories of squabbles over whether I-27 should come to/through Midland-Odessa or Big Spring.  I don't know how much of that was true.

They can't agree on that but they build I-69E and I-69C along basically the same corridor.

A map from the November 20, 2014 I-27 Corridor Extension Study Presentation that was presented to the Texas Transportation Commission suggests that the current thinking may be to have suffixed I-27 corridors for both Midland/Odessa and Big Spring (page 6/8 of pdf).  Here is a snip from the map:

[NE2]

No, the thick green is the Ports to Plains. The thin green for I-27 only takes the shorter east route.

[Grzrd]

No, the thick green is the Ports to Plains. The thin green for I-27 only takes the shorter east route.

Page 4/8 of the presentation purports to show the Ports-to-Plains Corridor.  Why does the map on that page include both corridors as part of the Ports-to-Plains Corridor? 

[NE2]

No, the thick green is the Ports to Plains. The thin green for I-27 only takes the shorter east route.

Page 4/8 of the presentation purports to show the Ports-to-Plains Corridor.  Why does the map on that page include both corridors as part of the Ports-to-Plains Corridor?

Because both are the Ports to Plains...
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/national_highway_system/high_priority_corridors/hpcor.cfm#l38

Note that there are also two more four-lane corridors south of Lubbock (US 385 to Odessa and US 84 to Roscoe). US 385 is unnecessary given the SH 349 spur of the Ports to Plains, but US 84 is its own corridor with more traffic than the Ports to Plains.

[Grzrd]

Because both are the Ports to Plains...
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/national_highway_system/high_priority_corridors/hpcor.cfm#l38

Precisely.  Your earlier post was muddled on that point:

No, the thick green is the Ports to Plains. The thin green for I-27 only takes the shorter east route.

[NE2]

Both are thick green. Though, since that map doesn't actually purport to show I-27, I don't know why the east route also has a thin white (oops, not green).

[Grzrd]

Here's part of an oral description of the I-27 extension:

This Oct. 22 article:

we could tie in ... I-20 at Midland Odessa and Big Spring

(above quote from Ports-to-Plains Corridor update thread)

It's all pretty much a pipe dream, but it looks like the Midland Odessa option is still in the dream.

[texaskdog]

I don't understand why Interstate 27 was never built all the way to I-20 in the Midland/Odessa area.

Years back I'd heard stories of squabbles over whether I-27 should come to/through Midland-Odessa or Big Spring.  I don't know how much of that was true.

They can't agree on that but they build I-69E and I-69C along basically the same corridor.

A map from the November 20, 2014 I-27 Corridor Extension Study Presentation that was presented to the Texas Transportation Commission suggests that the current thinking may be to have suffixed I-27 corridors for both Midland/Odessa and Big Spring (page 6/8 of pdf).  Here is a snip from the map:

1) Sad that Texas will become known for stupid suffixes.  2) I would still think 84 to the SE is far more travelled than these 2 routes, with all the central & east Texas traffic coming up that way.

[Bobby5280]

IMHO, it makes the most sense to extend I-27 down to Big Spring, since it would open the possibility for I-27 to be grown into a larger, more important corridor. It's a straight shot from Big Spring to San Angelo, one of the largest cities in the mainland 48 states not connected to the Interstate highway system either by an Interstate numbered route or a limited access route connecting to the Interstate system.

An I-27 extension from Lubbock to Big Spring, through San Angelo and down to Junction (and I-10) would create a direct San Antonio to Amarillo corridor. That could then push I-27 farther north into Colorado towards Denver.

If I-27 was extended SE along US-84 to Roscoe (and I-20) that is where I-27 would permanently end. Likewise, I see the same result for an I-27 extension to Midland-Odessa. If it went there I-27 would never go South of I-20.

At least there are logical options for I-27 if it is at least extended to Big Spring and San Angelo. Pushing I-27 towards San Antonio by way of Junction is one idea. Pushing I-27 directly South from San Angelo to Del Rio and the Mexican border is another logical idea. Roscoe and Midland-Odessa are both out of the way for either one of those corridor ideas.

They can't agree on that but they build I-69E and I-69C along basically the same corridor.

There's a lot more people living down at the far South end of Texas than the combined populations of Lubbock and Midland-Odessa. The Southern most part of Texas doesn't have any huge standalone cities along the lines of El Paso or Austin, but that strip down there is home to more than 1.5 million people. I think that's enough to justify two North-South Interstates, whether they're suffixed or carry unique numbers.

[texaskdog]

27 to Austin would be nice

[NE2]

There's a lot more people living down at the far South end of Texas than the combined populations of Lubbock and Midland-Odessa. The Southern most part of Texas doesn't have any huge standalone cities along the lines of El Paso or Austin, but that strip down there is home to more than 1.5 million people. I think that's enough to justify two North-South Interstates, whether they're suffixed or carry unique numbers.

It wouldn't necessarily, but unfortunately there's no way to reasonably connect both San Antonio to McAllen and Houston to Brownsville without the redundancy.

The stupid thing is that these need to be full freeways. There is no reason to get rid of all the farm access road intersections.

[Henry]

27 to Austin would be nice

I could also see it going to Laredo one day. Although their hands are already full with I-69W and a possible future extension of I-2...

[adventurernumber1]

I've always highly rooted for an I-27 extension to the Midland/Odessa area, but some good points have been made. I now agree Big Spring may very well be a better choice than Midland/Odessa, for if I-27 went to Big Spring, then as said, it'd be a good chance for I-27 to continue to San Angelo and eventually I-10. Also, if I-27 is extended to Big Spring, it's nothing to cry about that you could just take I-20 for a short distance from Big Spring to the Midland/Odessa area if you wished to get there from Lubbock. It would also give a slightly more direct connection from Lubbock to Abilene, DFW, and all east of that. I do like the idea of I-27 going to Big Spring.

[NE2]

Also, if I-27 is extended to Big Spring, it's nothing to cry about that you could just take I-20 for a short distance from Big Spring to the Midland/Odessa area if you wished to get there from Lubbock.

Actually you'd just take SH 349 from Lamesa, since there's a good chance that'll be upgraded to four-lane divided.

[Bobby5280]

I-27 extended down through Big Spring, San Angelo and terminated at Junction would be one logical choice.

However, the Ports to Plains Corridor design would have I-27 turning South from San Angelo to Del Rio and then down to Laredo. That would be a significantly longer extension, but could ultimately be better with a possible extension of I-2 up to Laredo. A big part of the Rio Grande border area would be covered.

[texaskdog]

Why is 385 a divided highway from Lubbock to Odessa?  It's faster to go from Lubbock to Odessa or Midland via TX 349, the 2-lane road.  Does anyone drive on this road?

[froggie]

Straying into fictional territory here, but why not I-27 to Big Spring and an I-x27 to Midland/Odessa?