Football (North America: NFL, CFL, Arena Football, minor leagues)

[1995hoo]

Parliament passed some kind of law to protect the CFL that essentially kept the WFL out of Toronto (the team instead played in Memphis). Wonder if they'd do the same if the NFL tried to expand or move a team there.

[oscar]

Expansion poses a mathematical problem. There currently are 32 teams: four teams for each of four divisions in two conferences. If the league adds teams, they will have to do so in a way that preserves the mathematical balance.

The league could add four teams and realign into two conferences with three divisions each with six teams each. That would accommodate London, Mexico City, Toronto and one more team. I think this is more likely to happen than for  London, Mexico City, and Toronto to all get existing teams,.

Currently each team plays each team in its division twice (home and away), each team in a different division in the same conference, each team in one division in the other conference, and two other teams, for 16 games per team per season. In the expanded, realigned league, each team would play 10 games within the division and most likely the other 6 games among a divisional rotation.

If you have six-team divisions, that guarantees a majority of games will be intra-division, and also that teams would face at most all the teams in only one other division. One beauty of the current structure (related to the number of teams being a power of two) is that each team plays every team in two other divisions (one in each conference) in a season, and will play every other team in the league at least once every four seasons. That diversifies teams' exposure to the rest of the league, rather than limiting their experience largely to intra-division games.

As for Toronto or other Canadian expansion:

-- the NFL tries to avoid competing with other football "leagues", such as no overlapping games with Friday night high school football and Saturday college games. To some extent, the CFL is also a talent feeder to the NFL, and so the NFL would prefer not to mess with it. True, Buffalo played some "home" games in Toronto, but I recall that experiment was structured to minimize stepping on the CFL's toes.

-- Toronto at least has an indoor stadium. Other Canadian cities don't, so playing NFL games in winter weather coming earlier than in the U.S. would complicate scheduling.

[bing101]

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160207/NEWS/160209874/arena-football-league-is-biting-the-bullet-downsizes-for-2016-season?X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

Arena football downsizes.

[Stephane Dumas]

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160207/NEWS/160209874/arena-football-league-is-biting-the-bullet-downsizes-for-2016-season?X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

Arena football downsizes.

Arena Football league to be precise.  I won't be surprised if some teams of AFL will move to the IFL like the Iowa Barnstormers and Spokane (who was forced to change its name due to the AFL keeping all the name trademarks rights of Spokane team) althought the IFL saw some of its teams moving to other leagues as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoor_Football_League#Left_for_another_league  It might be premature to talk of a merger between the AFL and IFL.

[Desert Man]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Football

OH  another failed "semi-pro" sports league.  They want to be another success like Arena football which is second-tier. I betcha high school football games will have more fans than this upcoming league.

[triplemultiplex]

A true "minor league" football league will only succeed in America with the backing of pro teams.  Some idealistic owner(s) will need to invest in a few farm teams to nurture nascent talent as a way to bypass the NCAA's bullshit.  But that will only happen when the NCAA's bullshit exceeds the NFL's tolerance for their bullshit.  And that is going to take a LOT of bullshit to overcome the free labor model the NCAA currently operates under.

As it stands now, everyone except the players benefits from the NCAA -> NFL model.  The NFL gets pro-caliber athletes that are 'seasoned' for free (to them) on NCAA teams.  Pro athletes are obligated by THE professional league to wait three years from high school to be eligible for the NFL draft which allows NFL teams to scrutinize players for viability at no expense to themselves in terms of player development.  With the market saturated with college teams, athletes effectively have no choice but to play for an NCAA school until they are eligible for the NFL.

The easy window for minor league football closed when cable sports channels turned college football from a regional interest to a national obsession.  With all the national media attention on the college teams, it's virtually impossible to kick-start minor leagues the way baseball did a century ago.  In baseball, very few people give a shit about the college level because minor leagues were well established long before the sport took off collegiately.

In football, it's the opposite problem.  We have decades of entrenched interest in the college level and virtually no consideration for a minor league.  50 years ago, that college education you got for playing football for free was a good deal.  Today, not so much.  You major in "communications" and get handed easy classes because the only thing that matters is that your physically talented ass is out there on Saturday making alumni cheer and getting TV audiences to watch Bud Light commercials.

A football minor league is up against tremendous odds because of a stupid status quo that includes a habituated fan base.  Those fans are going to need be utterly and completely appalled by the NCAA-NFL relationship before they will pivot toward a pro sports business model that is closer to MLB baseball or European soccer.

[Stephane Dumas]

A football minor league is up against tremendous odds because of a stupid status quo that includes a habituated fan base.  Those fans are going to need be utterly and completely appalled by the NCAA-NFL relationship before they will pivot toward a pro sports business model that is closer to MLB baseball or European soccer.

There's also hockey, who use a farm system more or less similar to baseball with the AHL and ECHL.

[jbnv]

A football minor league is up against tremendous odds because of a stupid status quo that includes a habituated fan base.  Those fans are going to need be utterly and completely appalled by the NCAA-NFL relationship before they will pivot toward a pro sports business model that is closer to MLB baseball or European soccer.

There's also hockey, who use a farm system more or less similar to baseball with the AHL and ECHL.

And, as with baseball, very few people care about college hockey.

[Pete from Boston]

A football minor league is up against tremendous odds because of a stupid status quo that includes a habituated fan base.  Those fans are going to need be utterly and completely appalled by the NCAA-NFL relationship before they will pivot toward a pro sports business model that is closer to MLB baseball or European soccer.

There's also hockey, who use a farm system more or less similar to baseball with the AHL and ECHL.

And, as with baseball, very few people care about college hockey.

It's popular here, and it's a much more affordable way to see hockey than the NHL, but the regions where this is true are very limited (New England, Michigan, Minnesota, etc.).  Hockey is big enough here that even smaller colleges (UMass Lowell comes to mind) field nationally competitive teams.

- - - - - - - - - -

As for MLF, this discussion further underscores my puzzlement that teams are being considered for so many areas dominated by the college game.

[triplemultiplex]

After moving to the Madison area this year, I have discovered there a quite a few college hockey fans around here.
And they are all pissed the Big Ten has forced them to play in a Big Ten only league.  Because that eliminated most of the good competition.  Apparently, Wisconsin and Minnesota are usually the big fish flopping around on a very small, frozen pond.

[Henry]

So here's where we stand on the L.A. situation:

-The Rams are officially back! (sorry, St. Louis)
-The Raiders will play in Oakland next season
-The Chargers will play in San Diego next season, but may move there after that, barring some miracle deal that gives them a new stadium (let's hope for that)

[Buck87]

MLFB is pushing back its inaugural season until 2017, and is launching a "development season" for 2016

http://www.mlfbmedia.com/mlfb-to-launch-2016-development-season/

[ET21]

NFL Draft may move after Chicago this year. Cities in mind include Atlanta and Denver

[Henry]

The Raiders are holding a meeting in Las Vegas about possibly relocating there; it'll be interesting to see whether it's allowed to happen.

[Alps]

The Raiders are holding a meeting in Las Vegas about possibly relocating there; it'll be interesting to see whether it's allowed to happen.

Would that make them the smallest market by population, in terms of overall spread? I can't see them getting beyond the border of Nevada. The only other team that might approach that is the Ravens.

[texaskdog]

The Raiders are holding a meeting in Las Vegas about possibly relocating there; it'll be interesting to see whether it's allowed to happen.

Would that make them the smallest market by population, in terms of overall spread? I can't see them getting beyond the border of Nevada. The only other team that might approach that is the Ravens.

If you count Green Bay as a statewide team....but vegas could draw all over Nevada.

[Alps]

The Raiders are holding a meeting in Las Vegas about possibly relocating there; it'll be interesting to see whether it's allowed to happen.

Would that make them the smallest market by population, in terms of overall spread? I can't see them getting beyond the border of Nevada. The only other team that might approach that is the Ravens.

If you count Green Bay as a statewide team....but vegas could draw all over Nevada.

Green Bay draws across the country. I don't think the Raiders are going to do that.

[Desert Man]

The Raiders are holding a meeting in Las Vegas about possibly relocating there; it'll be interesting to see whether it's allowed to happen.

Would that make them the smallest market by population, in terms of overall spread? I can't see them getting beyond the border of Nevada. The only other team that might approach that is the Ravens.

If you count Green Bay as a statewide team....but vegas could draw all over Nevada.

Green Bay draws across the country. I don't think the Raiders are going to do that.

Put a NFL team in Fresno then (the Raiders, both have fan bases in Nor and Sou halves of CA), then Fresno is a poor place for a pro or major league sports team (of course, minor leagues and lesser leagues will do okay). Fresno the largest CA city without a major league team. Give them a MLS team to play in Fresno State University football stadium...and name them the "Farmers". xD

[74/171FAN]

The Raiders are holding a meeting in Las Vegas about possibly relocating there; it'll be interesting to see whether it's allowed to happen.

Would that make them the smallest market by population, in terms of overall spread? I can't see them getting beyond the border of Nevada. The only other team that might approach that is the Ravens.

If you count Green Bay as a statewide team....but vegas could draw all over Nevada.

Green Bay draws across the country. I don't think the Raiders are going to do that.

Put a NFL team in Fresno then (the Raiders, both have fan bases in Nor and Sou halves of CA), then Fresno is a poor place for a pro or major league sports team (of course, minor leagues and lesser leagues will do okay). Fresno the largest CA city without a major league team. Give them a MLS team to play in Fresno State University football stadium...and name them the "Farmers". xD

I feel like the Raiders going to Las Vegas is almost a certainty with the NHL putting an expansion franchise there.

[Desert Man]

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160207/NEWS/160209874/arena-football-league-is-biting-the-bullet-downsizes-for-2016-season?X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

Arena football downsizes.

Arena Football league to be precise.  I won't be surprised if some teams of AFL will move to the IFL like the Iowa Barnstormers and Spokane (who was forced to change its name due to the AFL keeping all the name trademarks rights of Spokane team) althought the IFL saw some of its teams moving to other leagues as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoor_Football_League#Left_for_another_league  It might be premature to talk of a merger between the AFL and IFL.

Sports historians look at Arena Football similar to WNBA and World Team Tennis to succeeded in their smaller size. WTT had teams in Springfield MO, Springfield IL, Wichita KS and Boise ID. and the WNBA ranks as the world's top women's major league: the Tulsa Shock relocated to Dallas-Fort Worth, renamed the Wings, but this was Tulsa OK's first major league sports team. For arena football to kept going since its inception about 30 years ago (1987 or 88?) created by ESPN planners for cable TV telecast purposes, the league might grew or shrunk repeatedly, but they're selling games, attracted fans to the stands and made a profit out of attention and advertisers.

Edit: Since I support women in sport, the Legends Football League (formerly the Ladies' Lingerie League) is where women play their hearts out on the gridiron. In Southern CA, the L.A. Legends play in the Citizens Business Bank Arena near the Ontario airport. And the Women's Football League has the L.A. Amazons and the disbanded Santa Ana Winds.

[Brandon]

A football minor league is up against tremendous odds because of a stupid status quo that includes a habituated fan base.  Those fans are going to need be utterly and completely appalled by the NCAA-NFL relationship before they will pivot toward a pro sports business model that is closer to MLB baseball or European soccer.

There's also hockey, who use a farm system more or less similar to baseball with the AHL and ECHL.

And, as with baseball, very few people care about college hockey.

Maybe in Louisiana.  Come to Michigan and say that.  There's NCAA Division I college hockey teams at colleges that usually play in Division II.  There are 7 in the state, including 4 schools that play in Division II otherwise (MTU, NMU, LSSU, FSU + MSU, UM, and WMU).

[jp the roadgeek]

A football minor league is up against tremendous odds because of a stupid status quo that includes a habituated fan base.  Those fans are going to need be utterly and completely appalled by the NCAA-NFL relationship before they will pivot toward a pro sports business model that is closer to MLB baseball or European soccer.

There's also hockey, who use a farm system more or less similar to baseball with the AHL and ECHL.

And, as with baseball, very few people care about college hockey.

Maybe in Louisiana.  Come to Michigan and say that.  There's NCAA Division I college hockey teams at colleges that usually play in Division II.  There are 7 in the state, including 4 schools that play in Division II otherwise (MTU, NMU, LSSU, FSU + MSU, UM, and WMU).

And Boston is a College Hockey hotbed with the 4 Beanpot schools (BC, BU, Harvard, and Northeastern).  Of all places, New Haven, CT is becoming one as well; the National Championship game in 2014 was Quinnipiac vs. Yale.

The only way an NFL minor league will work is if they play their games on Tuesday or Wednesday nights.  Or if they play in the spring.

[jbnv]

And, as with baseball, very few people care about college hockey.

Maybe in Louisiana.  Come to Michigan and say that.  There's NCAA Division I college hockey teams at colleges that usually play in Division II.  There are 7 in the state, including 4 schools that play in Division II otherwise (MTU, NMU, LSSU, FSU + MSU, UM, and WMU).

Gladly. When college hockey gets the amount of attention, press and airplay that college football and basketball gets, I'll eat those worlds. (FYI, LSU has multiple baseball championships. UL-Lafayette is a perennial contender in both baseball and softball. But the race for the College World Series is no Bowl Series or March Madness.)

[ET21]

One week until the first college football weekend, and two weeks till Week 1 of the NFL

[Sean Lawson]

Fan Broncos present here!!!!