Control Cities in California

[mrsman]

I-605 south could be Long Beach, but traffic on I-605 north is mostly just connecting to another freeway heading someone else; I don't think a control city of Duarte would mean anything outside of being technically correct.

I wouldn't suggest Long Beach for I-605 south, since traffic on I-605 isn't anywhere near downtown Long Beach and is not heading in that direction. Imagine coming in from the east -- would the suggested route to Long Beach be I-605 south to I-405 north (and then likely to I-710 south), or to continue until you reach I-710 south in the first place?

Long Beach is more than just downtown. I take 605 south all the time to get to Cal State, Naples, and the various other neighborhoods on the east side of the city.

Even for downtown traffic 605 to 7th Street is a much more direct route than that freeway loop you suggested, especially if you're coming from the SGV and points east and don't want to deal with the ridiculous truck traffic on the 710.

I believe that the control cities listed on highways should direct people towards the downtowns of their respective cities.  That is certainly the way it is in California.  In fact, you will commonly see a control in California that is used, even while you are in the city limits.  With regards to Long Beach you can see this at the 405/710 interchange, well within LB city limits but still directing you south to reach Long Beach.  And of course there are countless examples in LA of the same thing.

If everything else were equal, the best way to reach Downtown LB from the east would be to continue on 10,60, or 91 to 710.*  Of course, if there is a traffic problem, it may be better to take 605 to 7th street as you suggested.  But, if traffic is moving well, we shouldn't direct traffic along 4 miles of surface street with traffic signal unnecessarily.

You are correct that LB is more than just Downtown, the same way LA is more than just Downtown.  But I would never use LA as a control on 405, even though there are many important LA destinations in the Westside.  The convention is that a "Los Angeles" control if followed to its conclusion from whereever you are will lead you to the 4 level interchange.  The "Long Beach" control leads you to Downtown and the Port.

* Of course, the 210 does not connect with the 710, so a trip to Long Beach from the 210 east would start with the 605 and then probably a transfer to the 105 or 91 to the 710.  But that is not enough justification for using a Long Beach control, even at the 210.

[bing101]

In the Sacramento area CA-99 and I-5 will have different control cities for the south bound directions I-5 South in Sacramento has Los Angeles as the control city and CA-99 south has Fresno as the control city and CA-99 and I-5 Meets again at the south end of the San Joaquin Valley.

[AndyMax25]

D7 still refers to this 1982 map, with reference to 1964, when working on sign projects in 2019. Go figure.

When discussing the new signs along the Hollywood and Santa Ana (US-101) freeways in downtown they decided to remove Hollywood and put Ventura.

[pdx-wanderer]

Sacramento on 405 and 210 have to be some of the farther 3di control cities out there.

[Techknow]

Just saw a video about the opening of the Sepulveda Pass portion of I-405 back at 1962. Apparently the control city at that part of the interstate was Bakersfield at the time. It's at 4:21

[nexus73]

Watching that video made me think if there was a need for 8 lanes at that time, we might just need 16 now.  With the new flexsteel, building an overhead set of lanes that can cope with a SoCal earthquake might be the way to use the space available.

Loved the US 99 mention too.

Rick

[djsekani]

Watching that video made me think if there was a need for 8 lanes at that time, we might just need 16 now.  With the new flexsteel, building an overhead set of lanes that can cope with a SoCal earthquake might be the way to use the space available.

Loved the US 99 mention too.

Rick

IIRC they knew it was underbuilt at the time, so the plan was for another freeway through the Laurel Canyon area. That's one of many L.A. freeways that was never built for reasons.

[pdx-wanderer]

Just saw a video about the opening of the Sepulveda Pass portion of I-405 back at 1962. Apparently the control city at that part of the interstate was Bakersfield at the time. It's at 4:21

Some of the I-5 Grapevine exits still have old Bakersfield signs at the on-ramps. Before there was a complete "West Side Freeway," Bakersfield would be the obvious NB 405 control city.

[AndyMax25]

Some of the I-5 Grapevine exits still have old Bakersfield signs at the on-ramps. Before there was a complete "West Side Freeway," Bakersfield would be the obvious NB 405 control city.

There are still several in Burbank:

https://goo.gl/maps/6ViV6saAFjz


Fixed quoting. –Roadfro

[mrsman]

I feel slightly conflicted about i-5 control City.  It made perfect sense to use Bakersfield originally because that was the next major city along u.s. 99.  And it also matches with the LA custom of using a control into the next county such as the Ventura Santa Ana and San Bernardino.  And because of cost considerations if it were up to me I would have left the controls alone even once I 5 was built along the west side of the valley.

but given my general preference for using larger cities as controls I do like having Sacramento there because it's very clear that using a road with a Sacramento control take you far to the North and then reach the north side of the city and beyond.     In my opinion it is proper for the northbound control of 405 and 170 to match the northbound control by 5 so Sacramento's appropriate even though 405 and 170 don't go nearly as far.  With respect to the 210 I am sad to see that they are getting rid of San Fernando for Sacramento, I don't feel this changes necessary or warranted.

Nexus 5X

[mrsman]

In the Sacramento area CA-99 and I-5 will have different control cities for the south bound directions I-5 South in Sacramento has Los Angeles as the control city and CA-99 south has Fresno as the control city and CA-99 and I-5 Meets again at the south end of the San Joaquin Valley.

IIRC, Fresno is the control only in the immediate Sacramento and Stockton areas only to distinguish I-5 from CA-99.  In other areas, even well north of Fresno, Los Angeles is the southbound control for south 99.

Here is a picture from Lodi:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.1162336,-121.2585635,3a,75y,79.49h,77.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJeSjjuA01ZX1SZAvPL0XaA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

So, if I had to qualify it, I would say that the control cities for both 99 and I-5 in the Central Valley are Sacramento and Los Angeles.  In areas where both are present (Wheeler Ridge, Stockton, Sacramento)  CA 99 will use Bakersfield and/or Fresno instead to distinguish.

A similar situation exists with 101 and 280.  For all intents and purposes, the controls on both highways between their two junctions (southern SF and southern SJ) are SF and San Jose.  But to distinguish the two highways, occasionally I-280 will see a control of "Daly City" or "Downtown San Jose".

And finally, within the San Fernando Valley, the control cities for both I-5 and CA-170 are Sacramento - Los Angeles for both of them.  To distinguish between them at the 5/170 split, 170's southbound control is Hollywood.  But it is only used there.  At every on-ramp onto southbound CA-170 from a surface street, Los Angeles is the control to the extent that it is signed.

Here's an example at Roscoe Blvd:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.2216067,-118.4109758,3a,75y,78.3h,82.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWgWQdFP4-ZlVZz8mf1jxOw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Contrast that with how US 101 treats Hollywood.  Until recent sign changes, Hollywood was the official first control city on US 101 north from Downtown LA.   You'd see Hollywood used at on-ramps in surface streets Downtown, at the 4-level, at some of the entrances to surface streets in Echo Park area, and surprisingly on the 110 at the I-10 interchange* nearly three miles away from the 101 ramp.  See:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0298217,-118.2742833,3a,75y,354.65h,96.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP1CfciZ_BLOZGfB2oCyEwQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Of course, there is a movement to replace all Hollywood signs with Ventura as Hollywood is not a real control city in D7's eyes.  At some point soon, the only place you'd see Hollywood on a freeway sign would be at the 5/170 split.

* If it were up to me, I would sign Downtown LA - Pasadena instead of Pasadena - Hollywood here.  IMO, while you are close to Downtown at this point, you are not yet in Downtown until you reach the exits for 4th, 6th, and 9th streets.

[nexus73]

Hollywood is not famous enough to be a control city.  So says Caltrans...LOL! 

Rick

[Occidental Tourist]

Hollywood is not famous enough to be a control city.  So says Caltrans...LOL! 

Rick

Or has a large enough population (77,000). But Ventura (110,000) apparently does.  While in the process of "updating"  signs and control cities, D7 also ignores that Oxnard is now the biggest city in Ventura County with 210,000.

[mrsman]

Hollywood is not famous enough to be a control city.  So says Caltrans...LOL! 

Rick

Or has a large enough population (77,000). But Ventura (110,000) apparently does.  While in the process of "updating"  signs and control cities, D7 also ignores that Oxnard is now the biggest city in Ventura County with 210,000.

101 only skirts the edge of Oxnard.  101 goes through the heart of Ventura.

[DTComposer]

Hollywood is not famous enough to be a control city.  So says Caltrans...LOL! 

Rick

Or has a large enough population (77,000). But Ventura (110,000) apparently does.  While in the process of "updating"  signs and control cities, D7 also ignores that Oxnard is now the biggest city in Ventura County with 210,000.

101 only skirts the edge of Oxnard.  101 goes through the heart of Ventura.

And size notwithstanding, Ventura is the county seat, the historic and cultural center of the region, and the bigger tourist draw. Same reason they wouldn't (and shouldn't) replace San Francisco with San Jose.

[Occidental Tourist]

101 only skirts the edge of Oxnard.  101 goes through the heart of Ventura.

The 60 barely touches Pomona's southern border. I-10 goes through more of Pomona. And Downtown Pomona is the same distance from the 60 as Downtown Oxnard is from the 101. Downtown Pomona is closer to the 10.  Yet Pomona is the control city on the 60.

And size notwithstanding, Ventura is the county seat, the historic and cultural center of the region, and the bigger tourist draw. Same reason they wouldn't (and shouldn't) replace San Francisco with San Jose.

The county seat argument is the only one consistent with Caltrans signing history.  For example, Indio–where the courthouse and county offices for the region are located–gets signed on I-10 even though Palm Springs is the historic and cultural center of the Coachella Valley. 

[DTComposer]

101 only skirts the edge of Oxnard.  101 goes through the heart of Ventura.

The 60 barely touches Pomona's southern border. I-10 goes through more of Pomona. And Downtown Pomona is the same distance from the 60 as Downtown Oxnard is from the 101. Downtown Pomona is closer to the 10.  Yet Pomona is the control city on the 60.

And size notwithstanding, Ventura is the county seat, the historic and cultural center of the region, and the bigger tourist draw. Same reason they wouldn't (and shouldn't) replace San Francisco with San Jose.

The county seat argument is the only one consistent with Caltrans signing history.  For example, Indio–where the courthouse and county offices for the region are located–gets signed on I-10 even though Palm Springs is the historic and cultural center of the Coachella Valley. 

It's a fair point, but I would argue that Indio/Palm Springs is more the exception rather than the rule. Compare that to the continued use of San Luis Obispo vs. Santa Maria (or even Santa Barbara vs. Santa Maria). And like Oxnard/Ventura, I-10 goes directly into Indio, as opposed to skirting 5 miles north of Palm Springs.

I'm not going to defend Caltrans' signing practices, but if you were to have a checklist of a) population, b) governmental center, c) cultural/tourism center, d) proximity to route, then Ventura "wins" over Oxnard, Indio "wins" over Palm Springs, San Luis Obispo "wins" over Santa Maria. San Jose maybe "ties" San Francisco, but that's only recently, and San Francisco's dominance as a governmental and cultural center way overshadows San Jose's higher population. Santa Ana "won" over Anaheim when I-5 (née US-101) was built, but Anaheim has since overtaken Santa Ana on at least two of those categories, and I've always been in favor of switching that control.

[TheStranger]

101 only skirts the edge of Oxnard.  101 goes through the heart of Ventura.

The 60 barely touches Pomona's southern border. I-10 goes through more of Pomona. And Downtown Pomona is the same distance from the 60 as Downtown Oxnard is from the 101. Downtown Pomona is closer to the 10.  Yet Pomona is the control city on the 60.

I think in part this is because I-10 (but in particular US 70/99 east of Kellogg Hill) was given the "San Bernardino Freeway" name early on, with the old 60 route splitting off to go to Pomona (via Route 71/Mission Boulevard).  It almost feels like "Pomona Freeway" got its name simply to differentiate it from the San Bernardino corridor, though really neither name is super accurate for the ultimate destinations of both routes (see below).

Having said that, 210 is the route that actually gets into the heart of San Bernardino!  But it didn't exist in any form in that city until the 1990s.  I-10 barely skirts the San Bernardino city limits; I recall that 215 north of Colton was originally also part of the "San Bernardino Freeway" route though I don't think that name was ever used much by the public for that stretch of road.

[mrsman]

101 only skirts the edge of Oxnard.  101 goes through the heart of Ventura.

The 60 barely touches Pomona's southern border. I-10 goes through more of Pomona. And Downtown Pomona is the same distance from the 60 as Downtown Oxnard is from the 101. Downtown Pomona is closer to the 10.  Yet Pomona is the control city on the 60.

I think in part this is because I-10 (but in particular US 70/99 east of Kellogg Hill) was given the "San Bernardino Freeway" name early on, with the old 60 route splitting off to go to Pomona (via Route 71/Mission Boulevard).  It almost feels like "Pomona Freeway" got its name simply to differentiate it from the San Bernardino corridor, though really neither name is super accurate for the ultimate destinations of both routes (see below).

Having said that, 210 is the route that actually gets into the heart of San Bernardino!  But it didn't exist in any form in that city until the 1990s.  I-10 barely skirts the San Bernardino city limits; I recall that 215 north of Colton was originally also part of the "San Bernardino Freeway" route though I don't think that name was ever used much by the public for that stretch of road.

The names of most of the freeways in the LA area that have been in use until relatively recently are based on their destination.  Hence, Santa Ana Fwy, San Bernardino Fwy, Santa Monica Fwy.  During this era, it made perfect sense for the outbound control city to match the name of this highway.  And this is what is done.  As mentioned earlier, I-10 has a San Bernardino control even though the 210 goes more directly there.  But 210's extension to SB is recent.  So even though 10 only skirts the edge of SB, and signage directs you to continue on 215 north to reach the heart of SB, it is still the SB Fwy with a SB control on eastbound I-10 from Downtown LA until the 215.

In an earlier era of freeway planning, the name of the highway was not the destination, but the name of the street that is closely paralleled.  There are references to the unbuilt Normandie Parkway for example.  The SM Fwy was known as the Olympic Pkwy, The SBFwy as the Ramona Pkwy.  The 60 Freeway parallels a street known as Pomona Blvd in East Los Angeles.  It already had the planning name of Pomona Fwy for a very long time, even though as mentioned I-10 goes more directly to Pomona then the 60.  As an even more recent example, I-105 as the Century Fwy. after Century Blvd.  AFAIK, it was never known as the Airport Fwy.  Its official name of Glenn Anderson, after a local congressman who helped with the funding.

There are other sources of confusion because of this.  The unbuilt CA-2 Beverly Hills Fwy was known as the Santa Monica Pkwy as it parallels SM Blvd, in the era that I-10 was known as the Olympic Pkwy.  Some times it takes a little bit of insight to determine whether CA-2 or I-10 is referenced in some old documents referring to the Santa Monica Fwy.

Likewise, there are some inaccuracies with the names used, as others have mentioned:

I-210 is more direct than I-10 for San Bernardino (yet I-210 does not reach Downtown LA).  Perhaps the 210 should've been the SB Fwy.

I-10 is more direct than 60 for Pomona.   Perhaps I-10 should've been Pomona Fwy.  Perhaps SB should not even be a control on I-10 and Indio should be used east of Pomona.

60 connects LA to Riverside.  91 connects the South Bay and OC to Riverside.  Should 60 be the Riverside Fwy instead?  Should Riverside be the only EB control on 60 from Downtown LA? 

The western part of 91 is already known as the Artesia Fwy, Artesia is a very small city, but the freeway (west of I-5) does parallel Artesia Blvd.  The freeway east of I-5 came first though.  Perhaps this should've been the Anaheim Fwy. 

57 is the Orange Fwy, yet has a control of Santa Ana.  It only reaches the SA city limits, but traffic can continue directly from 57 to I-5 south.  (A different control like Huntington Beach may have been used if this freeway was ever extended south of the 57/5/22.)  It also only skirts the Orange city limits.  Perhaps this should have been the Anaheim Fwy, or named after a nearby road as it doesn't head to LA, like Brea Canyon Fwy.

I-210 goes through more of Pasadena then the 110.  But since the 110 connects LA to Pasadena, the name Pasadena Fwy is appropriate.  It is no longer used as it is now known as the Arroyo Seco Pkwy.

CA-2 only skirts the eastern edge of  Glendale.  CA-134 heads to the heart of Glendale and probably would've been better named as the Glendale Fwy instead of the Ventura Fwy.  (Yes, I know that it connects directly with 101, but technically you are exiting 101 when taking the 134, so they should be different freeways by name as well.)

And why o why is the I-405 the San Diego Fwy.  I know that the name hops onto I-5 south of El Toro, and San Diego is a good control south of Long Beach, but I've always had problems with the name, particularly in LA County.  I preferred the old name of Sepulveda Pkwy.

[ClassicHasClass]

Having said that, 210 is the route that actually gets into the heart of San Bernardino!

I'm not sure I buy that. The Crosstown Fwy segment is really through the residential areas north of the city centre and the only highway that goes by the downtown is the 215 (and the rump remainder routing of CA 66). Historically this makes sense anyway: modern I-215 had all the regional through routes on it at one point, i.e., CA 18/US 66/US 91/US 395, which is what you would expect rather than the relatively minor routing CA 30 was back then.

I saw a map at one point that even signed the San Bernardino Fwy designation from I-10 north into San Bernardino along US 395, and then switched to the Barstow Fwy designation after crossing CA 30. I don't think this was ever common public understanding, though.

[SoCal Kid]

For US 101 went it reaches CA-170's southern terminus and CA-134's western terminus, its control city is Ventura. I feel like it could also include something like Thousand Oaks, or Oxnard, or maybe a city in between CA-134's western terminus and I-405 interchange. Then again, it's called the Ventura Freeway

[djsekani]

Hollywood is not famous enough to be a control city.  So says Caltrans...LOL! 

Rick

Or has a large enough population (77,000). But Ventura (110,000) apparently does.  While in the process of "updating"  signs and control cities, D7 also ignores that Oxnard is now the biggest city in Ventura County with 210,000.

No one's going to bring up the little detail that Hollywood is not a city?

[SoCal Kid]

Hollywood is not famous enough to be a control city.  So says Caltrans...LOL! 

Rick

Or has a large enough population (77,000). But Ventura (110,000) apparently does.  While in the process of "updating"  signs and control cities, D7 also ignores that Oxnard is now the biggest city in Ventura County with 210,000.

No one's going to bring up the little detail that Hollywood is not a city?

I still think Hollywood can be a control city. Like Ventura Freeway, the Hollywood Freeway and Hollywood as the control city kind of just make sense and go well. I heard in other places counties are used as control cities! Hollywood is a big and famous district in LA so Hollywood would be appropriate as a control city as most motorists will recognize it and know where they are heading. Control cities dont always have to be an actual city, they can be a region or a district.

[TheStranger]

Hollywood is not famous enough to be a control city.  So says Caltrans...LOL! 

Rick

Or has a large enough population (77,000). But Ventura (110,000) apparently does.  While in the process of "updating"  signs and control cities, D7 also ignores that Oxnard is now the biggest city in Ventura County with 210,000.

No one's going to bring up the little detail that Hollywood is not a city?

Doesn't this also apply to control destinations that were formerly but aren't separate cities now, i.e. Brooklyn/Staten Island?  Granted, both districts geographically are WAY more substantial than Hollywood, though Hollywood is of equal or higher renown nationally.

[SeriesE]

I-605: other beach cities/other valley cities