News:

The AARoads Wiki is live! Come check it out!

Main Menu

US 69 Improvements in Oklahoma

Started by I-39, June 10, 2017, 06:46:20 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

rte66man

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 29, 2020, 01:57:10 PM
I don't think you can reasonably predict what ODOT will do based on any sort of past action. It's like watching a Roomba. While you can tell internally it has some sort of plan, and the job usually gets done eventually, the route it takes is hard to predict and makes no apparent sense to an untrained observer.

Politics is still king.  There is no one who will stand up for ODOT when they make what we believe to be the best decision even when politically unpopular. Hence the complete cave to Muskogee on the bypass.  You can't ram these decisions through without a threat to a large portion of your funding. We have a history of diverting dedicated road funds to non-road purposes. Many of the pressure groups have the stroke to make that happen. Not saying its right, it's just the way it has always been.
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra


Ned Weasel

#176
Quote from: rte66man on July 29, 2020, 07:20:57 PM
Politics is still king.  There is no one who will stand up for ODOT when they make what we believe to be the best decision even when politically unpopular. Hence the complete cave to Muskogee on the bypass.  You can't ram these decisions through without a threat to a large portion of your funding. We have a history of diverting dedicated road funds to non-road purposes. Many of the pressure groups have the stroke to make that happen. Not saying its right, it's just the way it has always been.

I know there are some threads I've skipped, so I'm definitely missing something.  But, Muskogee Bypass?  It's mostly there already.  The only part that isn't a freeway is OK 165 between US 69 and the OK 351/Muskogee Turnpike.  And frankly, that non-freeway portion of OK 165 looks a lot easier to upgrade than several other parts of US 69 in the state, since it has very few driveways directly connecting to it, a fair amount of frontage roads, and businesses set back a good distance.  Even if ODOT didn't want to go full-freeway with it, they could still upgrade it for better access management and signalization with Michigan Lefts and/or jughandles, since there still seems to be enough space to do that.  (I know I'm treading on Fictional Highways territory, but I wanted to step in and at least pose the question.)
"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

Scott5114

ODOT wanted to build a purpose-built US-69 bypass around the west side of Muskogee, but all the NIMBYs came out because they were afraid their McDonaldses and such on current US-69 would go under.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

US71

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 30, 2020, 12:02:14 PM
ODOT wanted to build a purpose-built US-69 bypass around the west side of Muskogee, but all the NIMBYs came out because they were afraid their McDonaldses and such on current US-69 would go under.

Muskogee isn't a wealthy town to begin with. The only thing they really have going for them is the "castle", and Jefferson Highway
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

Scott5114

uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

DJStephens

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 30, 2020, 12:02:14 PM
ODOT wanted to build a purpose-built US-69 bypass around the west side of Muskogee, but all the NIMBYs came out because they were afraid their McDonaldses and such on current US-69 would go under.

Was under belief that that bypass was set in stone.  So kibosh on it?   Enough room to upgrade current alignment?  Not an expert on the corridor, been on it perhaps twice, driving across country. Most I-45 backers seem to have been in support of an upgraded route all the way north to Big Cabin.  Any one ever support a US - 75 routing direct to Tulsa?   Am guessing more trucks stay on the US - 69 corridor to bypass it.   

Scott5114

Yeah, I think it's been cancelled.

I don't think there's been much of a call to use a US-75-based route, since 75 hasn't been upgraded much south of I-40. Definitely a decent chunk of two-lane there.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

DJStephens

Okay.  Indian Nation Tpke.  A two lane road?   

Scott5114

US-75 isn't on the Indian Nation Turnpike; it has its own independent routing to the west between Atoka and Henryetta.

The Indian Nation Turnpike was built to 1950s OTA specs, which are great for a good laugh but don't come close to meeting Interstate specs. So there'd be a decent amount of money that would have to be invested to get an I-45 designation there. And then you'd have to either get the tolls pulled off of it (hard sell, since that's the only segment of the INT that actually makes any appreciable amount of money) or find a way around FHWA's reluctance to designate toll roads as Interstates.

That would get I-45 to I-40. Getting it up to Tulsa would require bypasses of Henryetta and Okmulgee, where you'd presumably run into the same problem that you had in Muskogee.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

DJStephens

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 12:45:14 PM
US-75 isn't on the Indian Nation Turnpike; it has its own independent routing to the west between Atoka and Henryetta.

The Indian Nation Turnpike was built to 1950s OTA specs, which are great for a good laugh but don't come close to meeting Interstate specs. So there'd be a decent amount of money that would have to be invested to get an I-45 designation there. And then you'd have to either get the tolls pulled off of it (hard sell, since that's the only segment of the INT that actually makes any appreciable amount of money) or find a way around FHWA's reluctance to designate toll roads as Interstates.

That would get I-45 to I-40. Getting it up to Tulsa would require bypasses of Henryetta and Okmulgee, where you'd presumably run into the same problem that you had in Muskogee.

Great pic, it appears very similar to many of New Mexico's original four lane jobs.  Mainly non-Interstate.  US 70, US 285, early I-25 sections, etc.  Have to wonder if someone from Pennsylvania/New Jersey moved there and were responsible for the design.   Narrow median, doesn't even have a cable or Jersey barrier.   Guessing low traffic counts, and little to no long haul trucking the original concrete is still uncovered.  Thanks for the insight have always found Oklahoma's highways interesting while passing through. 

Ned Weasel

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 12:45:14 PM
US-75 isn't on the Indian Nation Turnpike; it has its own independent routing to the west between Atoka and Henryetta.

The Indian Nation Turnpike was built to 1950s OTA specs, which are great for a good laugh but don't come close to meeting Interstate specs. So there'd be a decent amount of money that would have to be invested to get an I-45 designation there. And then you'd have to either get the tolls pulled off of it (hard sell, since that's the only segment of the INT that actually makes any appreciable amount of money) or find a way around FHWA's reluctance to designate toll roads as Interstates.

That would get I-45 to I-40. Getting it up to Tulsa would require bypasses of Henryetta and Okmulgee, where you'd presumably run into the same problem that you had in Muskogee.

Are there even plans to upgrade US 69 to a freeway between Texas and then Indian Nations Turnpike?  That alone is a far bigger challenge than upgrading the Indian Nations Turnpike, since you have to find a way to get a freeway through or around Atoka somehow.  Swapping out the Indian Nation Turnpike's grass median for a Jersey Barrier would be a piece of cake.

[Fictional Highways]I had another idea for a northward extension of I-45 from Dallas, which would be to route it east on I-30 to TX 24 to WB TX 286 to EB US 82 to NB US 271 to the Indian Nations Turnpike, which it would follow to I-40.  That whole route is mostly four-lanes-divided already.  I wouldn't be surprised if someone else has already thought of the same idea, and I missed that page of whatever thread it's on.  Texas might not go for it for the sole reason that they've already invested so much in US 75, however.[/Fictional Highways]
"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

Scott5114

Quote from: DJStephens on August 04, 2020, 01:02:55 PM
Great pic, it appears very similar to many of New Mexico's original four lane jobs.  Mainly non-Interstate.  US 70, US 285, early I-25 sections, etc.  Have to wonder if someone from Pennsylvania/New Jersey moved there and were responsible for the design.   Narrow median, doesn't even have a cable or Jersey barrier.   Guessing low traffic counts, and little to no long haul trucking the original concrete is still uncovered.  Thanks for the insight have always found Oklahoma's highways interesting while passing through. 

You're welcome. The thing to keep in mind when looking at the Oklahoma turnpike system is that the turnpikes are all "cross-pledged" against each other. That means that all toll money goes to the same pot that OTA can use toward maintenance or construction bonds for any toll road it pleases. Since the Turner and Will Rogers bring in far more money than it costs to maintain them, OTA has been called in to build turnpikes where traffic counts don't necessarily justify it, either as a rural-access initiative (like the Appalachian corridors) or as a safety improvement (the Cherokee was built to replace a section of old SH-33 that ODOT couldn't afford to upgrade).

Quote from: stridentweasel on August 04, 2020, 01:10:29 PM
Are there even plans to upgrade US 69 to a freeway between Texas and then Indian Nations Turnpike?  That alone is a far bigger challenge than upgrading the Indian Nations Turnpike, since you have to find a way to get a freeway through or around Atoka somehow.  Swapping out the Indian Nation Turnpike's grass median for a Jersey Barrier would be a piece of cake.

I don't believe there's any hard plans to do so at the moment, no, other than a sense of inevitability that it must happen someday. Believe it or not, the real barrier to progress in this stretch is Stringtown, which holds a weird amount of sway over the process for such a little town.

I think the upgrades needed would be a tad more expensive than just plopping down a Jersey barrier; you would need to move the lanes outward a bit to accommodate a left shoulder of requisite width. Further north, OTA made an attempt at fixing it. Emphasis on attempt.

Quote from: stridentweasel on August 04, 2020, 01:10:29 PM
[Fictional Highways]I had another idea for a northward extension of I-45 from Dallas, which would be to route it east on I-30 to TX 24 to WB TX 286 to EB US 82 to NB US 271 to the Indian Nations Turnpike, which it would follow to I-40.  That whole route is mostly four-lanes-divided already.  I wouldn't be surprised if someone else has already thought of the same idea, and I missed that page of whatever thread it's on.  Texas might not go for it for the sole reason that they've already invested so much in US 75, however.[/Fictional Highways]

If you build it, they won't come–AADT is only 1,831 between Hugo and Antlers. For reference, that's less than I-180 in Illinois.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kphoger

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 01:22:00 PM
If you build it, they won't come–AADT is only 1,831 between Hugo and Antlers.

but fritz
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Scott5114

Quote from: kphoger on August 04, 2020, 01:24:08 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 01:22:00 PM
If you build it, they won't come–AADT is only 1,831 between Hugo and Antlers.

but fritz

Oh, well, never mind then.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

sparker

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 01:22:00 PM
Quote from: DJStephens on August 04, 2020, 01:02:55 PM
Great pic, it appears very similar to many of New Mexico's original four lane jobs.  Mainly non-Interstate.  US 70, US 285, early I-25 sections, etc.  Have to wonder if someone from Pennsylvania/New Jersey moved there and were responsible for the design.   Narrow median, doesn't even have a cable or Jersey barrier.   Guessing low traffic counts, and little to no long haul trucking the original concrete is still uncovered.  Thanks for the insight have always found Oklahoma's highways interesting while passing through. 

You're welcome. The thing to keep in mind when looking at the Oklahoma turnpike system is that the turnpikes are all "cross-pledged" against each other. That means that all toll money goes to the same pot that OTA can use toward maintenance or construction bonds for any toll road it pleases. Since the Turner and Will Rogers bring in far more money than it costs to maintain them, OTA has been called in to build turnpikes where traffic counts don't necessarily justify it, either as a rural-access initiative (like the Appalachian corridors) or as a safety improvement (the Cherokee was built to replace a section of old SH-33 that ODOT couldn't afford to upgrade).

Quote from: stridentweasel on August 04, 2020, 01:10:29 PM
Are there even plans to upgrade US 69 to a freeway between Texas and then Indian Nations Turnpike?  That alone is a far bigger challenge than upgrading the Indian Nations Turnpike, since you have to find a way to get a freeway through or around Atoka somehow.  Swapping out the Indian Nation Turnpike's grass median for a Jersey Barrier would be a piece of cake.

I don't believe there's any hard plans to do so at the moment, no, other than a sense of inevitability that it must happen someday. Believe it or not, the real barrier to progress in this stretch is Stringtown, which holds a weird amount of sway over the process for such a little town.

I think the upgrades needed would be a tad more expensive than just plopping down a Jersey barrier; you would need to move the lanes outward a bit to accommodate a left shoulder of requisite width. Further north, OTA made an attempt at fixing it. Emphasis on attempt.

Quote from: stridentweasel on August 04, 2020, 01:10:29 PM
[Fictional Highways]I had another idea for a northward extension of I-45 from Dallas, which would be to route it east on I-30 to TX 24 to WB TX 286 to EB US 82 to NB US 271 to the Indian Nations Turnpike, which it would follow to I-40.  That whole route is mostly four-lanes-divided already.  I wouldn't be surprised if someone else has already thought of the same idea, and I missed that page of whatever thread it's on.  Texas might not go for it for the sole reason that they've already invested so much in US 75, however.[/Fictional Highways]

If you build it, they won't come–AADT is only 1,831 between Hugo and Antlers. For reference, that's less than I-180 in Illinois.

I have regularly used the INT as part of my route to visit my relatives in the Broken Bow area; much of the traffic -- including virtually all truck traffic -- exits at the US 69 interchange.  From there south there is scant traffic, with a good portion of what there actually is exiting at OK 3 at Antlers (including myself, of course).  So that AADT is probably spot on, and maybe 20-25% higher north of Antlers.  That's what happens with a road clearly intended to politically placate a sparsely populated portion of the state.  I'd speculate on what actions might boost the traffic count (TX extension to an actual traffic generator!?) -- but that's a subject for Fictional discussion.

bwana39

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 12:45:14 PM
US-75 isn't on the Indian Nation Turnpike; it has its own independent routing to the west between Atoka and Henryetta.

The Indian Nation Turnpike was built to 1950s OTA specs, which are great for a good laugh but don't come close to meeting Interstate specs. So there'd be a decent amount of money that would have to be invested to get an I-45 designation there. And then you'd have to either get the tolls pulled off of it (hard sell, since that's the only segment of the INT that actually makes any appreciable amount of money) or find a way around FHWA's reluctance to designate toll roads as Interstates.

That would get I-45 to I-40. Getting it up to Tulsa would require bypasses of Henryetta and Okmulgee, where you'd presumably run into the same problem that you had in Muskogee.

As to the road: You put a jersey barrier down the median and put a seal coat of asphalt down and it would probably meet muster.  BTW, if I am not mistaken, this stretch used to have asphalt over the top. I think this was just milled down to the original concrete.  The tolls are entirely a different issue. 

I think the more useful route is US-69 to Indian Nation Turnpike. From the end of INT to Tulsa follow US 62-75 to Tulsa, then follow US-169 north to US-59 and follow US-59 to I-70 at Lawrence or  keep following US-169 to I-35 in Olathe. The bottom line is there are a lot of freeway and rural divided highway along this route in Kansas.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

rte66man

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 12:45:14 PM
US-75 isn't on the Indian Nation Turnpike; it has its own independent routing to the west between Atoka and Henryetta.

The Indian Nation Turnpike was built to 1950s OTA specs, which are great for a good laugh but don't come close to meeting Interstate specs. So there'd be a decent amount of money that would have to be invested to get an I-45 designation there. And then you'd have to either get the tolls pulled off of it (hard sell, since that's the only segment of the INT that actually makes any appreciable amount of money) or find a way around FHWA's reluctance to designate toll roads as Interstates.

That would get I-45 to I-40. Getting it up to Tulsa would require bypasses of Henryetta and Okmulgee, where you'd presumably run into the same problem that you had in Muskogee.

Agree about Okmulgee but it wouldn't be that hard to run it through Henryetta just where it is.  Parclo at Main St, close off Holly Rd and Industrial Rd with frontage road access (plenty of room for that), interchange near Bollinger with frontage road access to the sawmill, and a full interchange at US266 with frontage roads allowing other crossovers to be closed. That will get you almost to Schulter.

I hope ODOT is still going to eliminate the at-grade intersection at Preston.
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

In_Correct

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 12:45:14 PM
US-75 isn't on the Indian Nation Turnpike; it has its own independent routing to the west between Atoka and Henryetta.

The Indian Nation Turnpike was built to 1950s OTA specs, which are great for a good laugh but don't come close to meeting Interstate specs. So there'd be a decent amount of money that would have to be invested to get an I-45 designation there. And then you'd have to either get the tolls pulled off of it (hard sell, since that's the only segment of the INT that actually makes any appreciable amount of money) or find a way around FHWA's reluctance to designate toll roads as Interstates.

That would get I-45 to I-40. Getting it up to Tulsa would require bypasses of Henryetta and Okmulgee, where you'd presumably run into the same problem that you had in Muskogee.

Quote from: bwana39 on August 04, 2020, 06:38:59 PMAs to the road: You put a jersey barrier down the median and put a seal coat of asphalt down and it would probably meet muster.  BTW, if I am not mistaken, this stretch used to have asphalt over the top. I think this was just milled down to the original concrete.  The tolls are entirely a different issue. 

I think the more useful route is US-69 to Indian Nation Turnpike. From the end of INT to Tulsa follow US 62-75 to Tulsa, then follow US-169 north to US-59 and follow US-59 to I-70 at Lawrence or  keep following US-169 to I-35 in Olathe. The bottom line is there are a lot of freeway and rural divided highway along this route in Kansas.

Install a glare screen??
Drive Safely. :sombrero: Ride Safely. And Build More Roads, Rails, And Bridges. :coffee: ... Boulevards Wear Faster Than Interstates.

sparker

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 12:45:14 PM
US-75 isn't on the Indian Nation Turnpike; it has its own independent routing to the west between Atoka and Henryetta.

The Indian Nation Turnpike was built to 1950s OTA specs, which are great for a good laugh but don't come close to meeting Interstate specs. So there'd be a decent amount of money that would have to be invested to get an I-45 designation there. And then you'd have to either get the tolls pulled off of it (hard sell, since that's the only segment of the INT that actually makes any appreciable amount of money) or find a way around FHWA's reluctance to designate toll roads as Interstates.

That would get I-45 to I-40. Getting it up to Tulsa would require bypasses of Henryetta and Okmulgee, where you'd presumably run into the same problem that you had in Muskogee.

Don't think getting I-45 to I-40 would be a problem along US 69, since the alignment north of McAlester is already a freeway (albeit one that would require some spot fixes to meet standards); rerouting it up the INT north of the US 69 interchange wouldn't be necessary unless it was desired to head directly to Tulsa.  More of a problem: overcoming bypass objections rife with political implications from Stringtown and Atoka -- but those would exist regardless of where the northern terminus would be located.   

Ned Weasel

Quote from: sparker on August 05, 2020, 05:04:54 AM
More of a problem: overcoming bypass objections rife with political implications from Stringtown and Atoka -- but those would exist regardless of where the northern terminus would be located.   

I kind of hate this, but unless there's an Oklahoma state law against this, they could probably use eminent domain to acquire plots of land right next to the proposed freeway and give them to Love's and Pilot for new, more convenient locations.  It's not my favorite Supreme Court decision, and I'm not a big fan of the American Planning Association for supporting it, but Kelo vs. New London upheld the right to use eminent domain for corporate welfare--I mean--"economic development."  Of course, the precedent was already set by Berman vs. Parker in 1954.

Urban planning school taught me next to jack that I find useful in terms of what I'm really interested in, but at least there's a bit of case law that I know by heart without being a lawyer.

When it comes to business locations, I think there's a significant difference between catering to car traffic and catering to truck traffic.  If you're driving a big-rig, you're probably going to want to get off the freeway as little as possible, which is why I hated having assigned fuel stops that strongly incentivized me by company policy to use US 69 instead of I-35 to get from Dallas to Topeka or Kansas City.  But if you're in a car, it's much easier to take a business loop to get to McDonald's, the gas station, Walmart, Super 8, or whatever.
"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

captkirk_4

Quote from: DJStephens on August 04, 2020, 12:23:22 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 30, 2020, 12:02:14 PM
ODOT wanted to build a purpose-built US-69 bypass around the west side of Muskogee, but all the NIMBYs came out because they were afraid their McDonaldses and such on current US-69 would go under.

Was under belief that that bypass was set in stone.  So kibosh on it?   Enough room to upgrade current alignment?  Not an expert on the corridor, been on it perhaps twice, driving across country. Most I-45 backers seem to have been in support of an upgraded route all the way north to Big Cabin.  Any one ever support a US - 75 routing direct to Tulsa?   Am guessing more trucks stay on the US - 69 corridor to bypass it.   

The routing would have to go from Dallas to Big Cabin as I-44 is the end point of a lot of the traffic. When I drove it I made fairly good time coming up from Texas until I got to Muskogee. The Muskogee to Big Cabin portion is most in need of an upgrade because of the frequent stop lights and dinosaur routing right through towns instead of bypass. All those "speed zone ahead" 45 then 35 then 30 etc where you have to watch for Barney Fife running a highway man revenue scam take all the momentum out of your journey.

Scott5114

Quote from: bwana39 on August 04, 2020, 06:38:59 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 12:45:14 PM
US-75 isn't on the Indian Nation Turnpike; it has its own independent routing to the west between Atoka and Henryetta.

The Indian Nation Turnpike was built to 1950s OTA specs, which are great for a good laugh but don't come close to meeting Interstate specs. So there'd be a decent amount of money that would have to be invested to get an I-45 designation there. And then you'd have to either get the tolls pulled off of it (hard sell, since that's the only segment of the INT that actually makes any appreciable amount of money) or find a way around FHWA's reluctance to designate toll roads as Interstates.

That would get I-45 to I-40. Getting it up to Tulsa would require bypasses of Henryetta and Okmulgee, where you'd presumably run into the same problem that you had in Muskogee.

As to the road: You put a jersey barrier down the median and put a seal coat of asphalt down and it would probably meet muster. 

From the looks of it, once you put the Jersey barrier down, you still have too little clearance between it and the left lane. You'd have to extend the outer edge of the roadbed a few feet so you can shift the lanes outward.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Ned Weasel

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 05, 2020, 12:45:17 PM
From the looks of it, once you put the Jersey barrier down, you still have too little clearance between it and the left lane. You'd have to extend the outer edge of the roadbed a few feet so you can shift the lanes outward.

Ah, the great American Interstate!  They just don't make 'em like they used to!  https://goo.gl/maps/L4jd47cHkALWc2wC7
"I was raised by a cup of coffee." - Strong Bad imitating Homsar

Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

bwana39

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 04, 2020, 01:24:08 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 01:22:00 PM
If you build it, they won't come–AADT is only 1,831 between Hugo and Antlers.

but fritz

Oh, well, never mind then.

Hugo and Antlers. The Hugo to Antlers is part of the miss DFW and go from I-40 to the Texas Gulf Coast. Even the traffic that adopted this route skip the first part of the turnpike. There is a MOSTLY 4 lane route using US69 from Beaumont to Greenville (TX) Then a short juke on I-30 to SH24. 24 to Paris then 271 to Hugo. Then there is the rub.  271 runs virtually alongside the Turnpike to Antlers and is rural full speed highway. People skip that leg of the turnpike because it gains very little for the expense. 
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

rte66man

Quote from: bwana39 on August 05, 2020, 06:29:54 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on August 04, 2020, 01:24:08 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 04, 2020, 01:22:00 PM
If you build it, they won't come–AADT is only 1,831 between Hugo and Antlers.

but fritz

Oh, well, never mind then.

Hugo and Antlers. The Hugo to Antlers is part of the miss DFW and go from I-40 to the Texas Gulf Coast. Even the traffic that adopted this route skip the first part of the turnpike. There is a MOSTLY 4 lane route using US69 from Beaumont to Greenville (TX) Then a short juke on I-30 to SH24. 24 to Paris then 271 to Hugo. Then there is the rub.  271 runs virtually alongside the Turnpike to Antlers and is rural full speed highway. People skip that leg of the turnpike because it gains very little for the expense. 

Still have to go through Antlers.  I'd rather pay the extra 50 cents to avoid that.
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.