CA 99 - The Final Countdown

[mrsman]

IMO, I would have preferred keeping it as US 99.  The signange had already existed and it was long enough to meet AASHTO's requirements for an intrastate US highway.  I would say only to the north of Wheeler Ridge all the way to Canada.  There will be relatively few multiplexes.

I think that the singnage at Wheeler Ridge would direct traffic appropriately.  US 99 to Bakersfield and Fresno is a more local route, even though you could take it all the way to Canada.  I-5 to SF and Sac, which is the long distance bypass routing.

[jakeroot]

I think that the singnage at Wheeler Ridge would direct traffic appropriately.  US 99 to Bakersfield and Fresno is a more local route, even though you could take it all the way to Canada.  I-5 to SF and Sac, which is the long distance bypass routing.

It would now, but perhaps not back in the day. Downgrading US-99 to a state highway lessened confusion for traffic heading north, who may not have fully understood which route went north (US-99 or I-5), even with ample signage.

[sparker]

Having conversed with Caltrans planners & engineers back in the '80's when doing a survey about 99 upgrades, it seems like the more senior of these -- who had been around during the phases of I-5 construction north to at least Stockton (1963-72) -- had every intention of ensuring that I-5 would be perceived as the "through route" north & south through the Valley; they seemed actually relieved that the original pre-'58 plan that marched I-5 right up US 99 had been dropped.  This allowed them, for the time being, to approach the 99 facility as if it were a regional server rather than a main artery (despite the fact that it remained that until I-5 was completed) -- upgrading it a piece at a time -- with district priorities, various local political pressures, and the availability of funding (it remained a FAP route, so it at least got some federal aid) determining the location and scope of those upgrades.  "Demoting" US 99 to a state-signed route dovetailed right into those plans; the fact that the late-1966 signage change occurred some six years prior to the completion of I-5 as far north as Stockton didn't deter them in the least (one engineer actually stated that if drivers insisted on a US route connecting north to south, they always had 101!).  Because much of the 99 freeway had been planned & constructed prior to the establishment of Interstate criteria, Caltrans/Division of Highways realized that an Interstate alignment along that route would not only require the deployment of new segments, but also the rehabilitation of the many substandard sections, requiring demolishing more than a few structures as well as the acquisition of additional property along those sections.  Besides, moving I-5 to the West Valley route meant that the existing plans for converting 99 to a freeway could remain as they were -- with narrower shoulders and bridges, the famous oleander-bush median barriers, retaining older narrow RR underpasses as part of the upgrades, and so forth -- all money-saving measures.  Much of that concept can still be seen on CA 99 between Delano and Tulare, although some safety-related upgrades have been since installed:  thrie-beam barriers flanking the oleander bushes, chip-seal extension of the inside median up to those barriers, and the widening of the outside breakdown lane (except on some older bridges) -- as well as the posting of under-16' overheads with the actual clearance.  It could be said that the term "leisurely" could describe Caltrans' historic approach to 99 upgrading.       

[texaskdog]

The answer I was looking for, thanks!

[Thunderbyrd316]

It just seems to me to be the weirdest recommissioning ever.  The only reason I could think was to get more people to drive on I-5, but it wasn't finished yet.

I don't believe Oregon completely decommissioned US-99 until 1972 (when -99, 99E, and -99W became OR-). I'm pretty sure the 5 was completed throughout most of Oregon by then, but I could be wrong.

Granted, you could also just be talking about just California (judging by the chosen regional board), but you haven't specified otherwise.

   Oregon was indeed the last state to decommission U.S. 99, U.S. 99E and U.S. 99W, all in 1972. And Interstate 5 was indeed a complete border to border freeway as far back as 1966. (Oregon's Interstate 5 actually had the distinction of being the very first "border to border" Interstate highway completed, though a few sections would have been considered sub standard by todays standards.)

   Personally, I would like to see U.S. 99 recommissioned from Wheeler Ridge to Portland as follows: Follow the existing S.R. 99 from Wheeler Ridge to Red Bluff except following S.R. 70 and S.R. 149 through Marysville and Oroville. (The segment of S.R. 99 through Yuba City I would post as U.S. 99A or Alternate.) From Red Bluff to Ashland, possibly excepting S.R. 273 and S.R. 263 and perhaps the "Historic" U.S. 99 segment through the Weed, Mt. Shasta, Dunsmuir area, could be silently multiplexed with I-5. In Oregon, U.S. 99 would primarily follow Oregon 99 from I-5 exit 11 at Ashland to Junction City then follow Oregon 99W from Junction City through Corvallis and McMinnville ending at the junction with I-5 at exit 294. Oregon 99E would not warrant being recommissioned as it follows I-5 closely enough not to justify a separate U.S. highway routing. U.S. 99 would NOT be recommissioned in any part of Washington state for the same reason.

[Exit58]

It would be awesome to see US 99 make a comeback, but it seems Caltrans has it's heart set on making the 99 an Interstate. Hopefully then Fresno will stop complaining.

[Quillz]

It would be awesome to see US 99 make a comeback, but it seems Caltrans has it's heart set on making the 99 an Interstate. Hopefully then Fresno will stop complaining.

Is it really Caltrans? I was under the impression they are interesting in upgrading the 99 for traffic optimization/safety, but have no particular interest in any renumbering. Seems any such pressure is external.

Either way, CA-99 is still quite a ways off from even being qualifiable for an interstate conversion. And given any lack of interest in any potential extension of I-40 and I-210, I realistically don't think CA-99 will probably get resigned, either. And I'm fine with that, "99" is an old and historic number as far as California highways go, it should stick around.

[Exit58]

I completely agree with keeping the 99 number around, but Caltrans did publish a plan that included bring SR-99 to Interstate standards and be included in the system as either I-7 or I-9 (I-9 would be a nice nod to it's grandparent, US 99, like US 80 and I-8).

[Avalanchez71]

Why don't you get your reps on board and then get them to have Caltrans petition AASHTO.

[cahwyguy]

Let's ask this question: You have a route that already has a working and well known number. You face declining gas tax revenue, increased need for infrastructure repair and maintainance, plus increased funding for transit, bikeways, and other improvements. Should you spend your money -- and the money of numerous cities that would have to re-sign -- and numerous businesses that might need to redo advertising -- just to change a number because it makes a system make better sense to someone.

That, in a nutshell, is why you are likely to see the number remain as it is.

[sparker]

Pretty much every CA poster, plus a good helping of others, has already kicked the shit out of the CA-99/US 99/I-whatever subject/controversy in this thread, plus at last count 5 pages of the "CA 99-The Final Countdown" thread.  I don't think there's been a POV that hasn't been elucidated, nor a rationale that hasn't been dissected at length.  I'm certainly not suggesting that this subject go away or be ignored, just that posters try to not simply reiterate what's already been stated -- if not beaten to death!  To that end, I humbly suggest that roadfro merge the threads -- if only to locate all the previous comments & references in one, easy-to-scroll-through format.  Might save a lot of re-hashing!



Good idea. With all the new threads lately, I forgot the CA 99 thread existed. Topics merged. –Roadfro

[coatimundi]

I would like to advocate that the freeway section of CA 120, and CA 99 south from there to its southern terminus, be renumbered to I-205 and be decked and elevated for its entirety...

[sparker]

Now THAT belongs in Fictional!  The whole concept of folks taking HSR next to 99, looking over and seeing a double-deck freeway next to them in the middle of nowhere (sorry, Livingston and Ceres!) is at once totally ironic and patently ludicrous!  But I guess if you're going to upgrade a road, might as well go all the way from the get-go!

[flowmotion]

Just two more bits on 99, since this was semi-alluded to. There were supposedly "powerful land interests" who opposed highway expansion until relatively recently.

(One thing odd about CA is the occasional journalistic reference to "powerful land interests", which cannot be named.)

[sparker]

There were rumors that the reason that the last section of 99 to be completed as a full freeway -- Chowchilla to Merced -- was subject to years of delay by the unwillingness of the local almond farmers' cooperative to give up any of the land adjacent to the original expressway, which "hugged" the adjoining UP tracks closely.  Apparently they fought eminent domain proceedings tooth & nail for at least two decades before an agreement was cobbled together that exchanged land for the deployment of an access/frontage road that would allow their equipment to move freely between groves.

My late former father-in-law was an attorney for several large Valley agribusinesses -- in that area they tend to get their way more often than not!

[sdmichael]

Regarding US 99 - My website, which has a tour of US 99 from Downtown Los Angeles to Bakersfield, is getting longer. Originally, the tour was only to go from Newhall Pass to Bakersfield. Later, it was extended to DTLA (well, close to it). Now, I'm extending it north. Right now, it terminates at 7th Standard Road, having ended at the Kern River before. I plan to extend the tour to at least Delano, with the possibility of Fresno (or maybe past the "Pine and the Palm"), but we shall see. I know the alignments, I just don't have the photos as yet for the bulk of the "stops" on the tour. I may take a trip up that way in the not-too-distant future, depending on temperatures. Motorcycle leathers aren't exactly the coolest to wear when it is 95F.

http://socalregion.com/highways/us_99/

[BakoCondors]

How would 104º feel in leathers? That was today's high in the Big Bad Bakopatch.

Seroiusly though, love your site.

[sdmichael]

It would be sweaty and uncomfortable. I've ridden in my leathers in that heat before... not good.