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Chicago-Kansas City Expressway

Started by MantyMadTown, April 26, 2018, 01:12:15 AM

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Lyon Wonder

Driving on the C-KC corridor will be more bearable now since the IL-336 bypass around Macomb is now open to traffic.  The bypass is only a "super 2" since what's supposed to be southbound lanes haven't been paved yet.

http://tspr.org/post/macomb-bypass-now-open-traffic



bugo

How is IL 336 going to run between its current end at US 67 to the US 67 expressway north of Good Hope? Will it cross 67 just north of Macomb, then turn north, bypass Good Hope to the east then veer into the current expressway just north of Good Hope?

ilpt4u

#102
I thought IL 336 was destined to end @ I-474 in Peoria, utilizing the unnumbered 4 lane freeway @ 474 Exit 3A that presently serves as a long ramp from 474 to IL 116

That route is supposed to connect to the new Macomb Bypass @ US 67, I believe

From billburmaster.com

sparker

Quote from: ilpt4u on June 03, 2018, 06:27:12 PM
I thought IL 336 was destined to end @ I-474 in Peoria, utilizing the unnumbered 4 lane freeway @ 474 Exit 3A that presently serves as a long ramp from 474 to IL 116

That route is supposed to connect to the new Macomb Bypass @ US 67, I believe

From billburmaster.com


IIRC, that plan was proposed in the early 2000's but postponed indefinitely until funding is identified.  But the corridor's existence indicates just why both 110 and 336 are co-signed on the segment between Quincy and Macomb (plainly the corridors' point of divergence).

ilpt4u

#104
Yup, no funding, and doubtful Tolls would pay for it, either. And with the State of IL financial situation, who knows if/when this corridor will be realized

It is still planned, and the first mile or two in Peoria has already been built. Plenty more miles needed to bridge the gap between Peoria and Macomb

bugo

I haven't gotten a satisfactory answer as to why US 136 wasn't rerouted to the IL 336 bypass of Colchester. It follows the expressway then hops off and follows the old route from Tennessee to just east of Colchester. It would make more sense to follow 336 all the way.

ilpt4u

Quote from: bugo on June 04, 2018, 10:18:33 PM
I haven't gotten a satisfactory answer as to why US 136 wasn't rerouted to the IL 336 bypass of Colchester. It follows the expressway then hops off and follows the old route from Tennessee to just east of Colchester. It would make more sense to follow 336 all the way.
No promise of satisfaction, but I would assume US 136 stays on the Thru Town Route, as it was before the Bypass, and the 336 Peoria-Quincy and 110 CKC are routed on the new Bypass, as an Express/Bypass around the towns

edwaleni

Not to muddy the waters but IDOT long term plans include a US67 bypass of Macomb on the east side.

It will intersect north of Macomb where the west bypass meets the existing US67 today.

So if IL-336 does come to a reality in our lifetime between Peoria and Macomb, I would assume it would intersect with US67 east of Macomb and bypass to the north to join the existing IL-336.

edwaleni

Quote from: bugo on June 04, 2018, 10:18:33 PM
I haven't gotten a satisfactory answer as to why US 136 wasn't rerouted to the IL 336 bypass of Colchester. It follows the expressway then hops off and follows the old route from Tennessee to just east of Colchester. It would make more sense to follow 336 all the way.

Not sure if this meets your needs, but re-routing a federal highway would require renumbering the mileage markers from Dillsburg IL to Keokuk IA. All because a bypass would add 2, maybe 3 miles?

Seems kind of straight forward to me.

bugo

Quote from: edwaleni on June 05, 2018, 06:26:49 PM
Quote from: bugo on June 04, 2018, 10:18:33 PM
I haven't gotten a satisfactory answer as to why US 136 wasn't rerouted to the IL 336 bypass of Colchester. It follows the expressway then hops off and follows the old route from Tennessee to just east of Colchester. It would make more sense to follow 336 all the way.

Not sure if this meets your needs, but re-routing a federal highway would require renumbering the mileage markers from Dillsburg IL to Keokuk IA. All because a bypass would add 2, maybe 3 miles?

Seems kind of straight forward to me.

Not really. They reroute highways all the time. And this is technically an AASHTO violation as the US routes are supposed to follow the best route between two points.

ilpt4u

Quote from: bugo on June 06, 2018, 12:59:25 AM
Quote from: edwaleni on June 05, 2018, 06:26:49 PM
Quote from: bugo on June 04, 2018, 10:18:33 PM
I haven't gotten a satisfactory answer as to why US 136 wasn't rerouted to the IL 336 bypass of Colchester. It follows the expressway then hops off and follows the old route from Tennessee to just east of Colchester. It would make more sense to follow 336 all the way.

Not sure if this meets your needs, but re-routing a federal highway would require renumbering the mileage markers from Dillsburg IL to Keokuk IA. All because a bypass would add 2, maybe 3 miles?

Seems kind of straight forward to me.

Not really. They reroute highways all the time. And this is technically an AASHTO violation as the US routes are supposed to follow the best route between two points.
The whole City of Indy is an AASHTO violation then...US 31, 36, 40, 52, and 421 routing on the Beltway is not the best route between 2 points

Scott5114

Quote from: edwaleni on June 05, 2018, 06:26:49 PM
Quote from: bugo on June 04, 2018, 10:18:33 PM
I haven't gotten a satisfactory answer as to why US 136 wasn't rerouted to the IL 336 bypass of Colchester. It follows the expressway then hops off and follows the old route from Tennessee to just east of Colchester. It would make more sense to follow 336 all the way.

Not sure if this meets your needs, but re-routing a federal highway would require renumbering the mileage markers from Dillsburg IL to Keokuk IA. All because a bypass would add 2, maybe 3 miles?

Seems kind of straight forward to me.

Two words: Milepost equation.

Quote from: ilpt4u on June 06, 2018, 01:35:20 AM
The whole City of Indy is an AASHTO violation then...US 31, 36, 40, 52, and 421 routing on the Beltway is not the best route between 2 points

AASHTO considers a freeway to be a better route than a more direct surface alignment.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

ilpt4u

#112
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2018, 01:52:50 AM
Quote from: ilpt4u on June 06, 2018, 01:35:20 AM
The whole City of Indy is an AASHTO violation then...US 31, 36, 40, 52, and 421 routing on the Beltway is not the best route between 2 points
AASHTO considers a freeway to be a better route than a more direct surface alignment.
Maybe some of the time. Certainly not all the time.

Tho there are plenty of counter-examples. US 41 vs the Pennyrile Pkwy, US 231 vs the Natcher Pkwy, US 62 vs both the Western KY and Bluegrass Pkwys (sure, the KY Pkwys used to be Toll Roads, but not anymore), US 40 vs I-70 for a good portion of their respective lenghts

Scott5114

I think you are misinterpreting what I am saying.

AASHTO considers a freeway route to be a better route than a surface route. That does not mean that it is, in actuality, the best route to take. However, they will approve a move of a US route to a freeway, if a state applies to do so, under the assumption this is a better route. If a US route follows a surface route, and the state does not apply to move the US route to an available freeway, AASHTO will not have an opinion because nothing is brought to them to approve or reject. AASHTO will usually reject a move of a US route from a freeway to a surface route.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

NE2

Someone at AASHTO should have realized that I-65 is a better route for US 31 through Indy than I-465 around halfway.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

skluth

Quote from: bugo on June 04, 2018, 10:18:33 PM
I haven't gotten a satisfactory answer as to why US 136 wasn't rerouted to the IL 336 bypass of Colchester. It follows the expressway then hops off and follows the old route from Tennessee to just east of Colchester. It would make more sense to follow 336 all the way.

I wonder if it's a bargaining chip. Illinois saying we'll remove this highway from the national road network in exchange for adding something else. I don't know AASHTO's rules regarding highway responsibility and maintenance.

NE2

Quote from: skluth on June 06, 2018, 11:56:51 AM
I don't know AASHTO's rules regarding highway responsibility and maintenance.
There are none.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

hbelkins

Quote from: bugo on June 04, 2018, 10:18:33 PM
I haven't gotten a satisfactory answer as to why US 136 wasn't rerouted to the IL 336 bypass of Colchester. It follows the expressway then hops off and follows the old route from Tennessee to just east of Colchester. It would make more sense to follow 336 all the way.

Wonder if this one of those things that IDOT is just dragging its feet on?

I drove a segment of US 136 across Illinois several years ago, and I remember construction paralleling that route somewhere along the line. I'm presuming that's what's being discussed here.

I agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense to keep a US route on an older alignment if a new alignment has a state route number.

In a case like US 460 in Kentucky, I can understand why the US route hasn't been put on the new four-lane alignment yet because it has not been finished. I actually don't look for US 460 to go onto the under-construction Corridor Q until the entire route is finished between Pikeville and Grundy. I don't even think it will be signed when the route is completed to Elkhorn City.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

ilpt4u

Quote from: NE2 on June 06, 2018, 11:38:29 AM
Someone at AASHTO should have realized that I-65 is a better route for US 31 through Indy than I-465 around halfway.
US 52 as well for I-65 vs I-465

I-70 is a better choice for US 40 and US 36 vs I-465 as well

US 421 using I-465, I am ok with

skluth

Quote from: NE2 on June 06, 2018, 02:02:01 PM
Quote from: skluth on June 06, 2018, 11:56:51 AM
I don't know AASHTO's rules regarding highway responsibility and maintenance.
There are none.

Thanks. I had wondered if the federal government limited the number of road miles they would help maintain much like some states limit total number of state-maintained highway miles. (E.g., Wisconsin limits their support to highways to something like 12K miles in their state law.)

hbelkins

Quote from: skluth on June 07, 2018, 10:43:39 AM
Quote from: NE2 on June 06, 2018, 02:02:01 PM
Quote from: skluth on June 06, 2018, 11:56:51 AM
I don't know AASHTO's rules regarding highway responsibility and maintenance.
There are none.

Thanks. I had wondered if the federal government limited the number of road miles they would help maintain much like some states limit total number of state-maintained highway miles. (E.g., Wisconsin limits their support to highways to something like 12K miles in their state law.)

Keep in mind that AASHTO is not a regulatory agency like FHWA. It's a voluntary organization of state DOTs and has no enforcement power.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Highway63

Quote from: hbelkins on June 07, 2018, 03:27:40 PM
Keep in mind that AASHTO is not a regulatory agency like FHWA. It's a voluntary organization of state DOTs and has no enforcement power.
Right. Its power lies in harnessing the unchecked rage of roadgeeks and channeling it into nonsensical interstates in North Carolina.

sparker

Quote from: Highway63 on June 12, 2018, 05:47:52 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 07, 2018, 03:27:40 PM
Keep in mind that AASHTO is not a regulatory agency like FHWA. It's a voluntary organization of state DOTs and has no enforcement power.
Right. Its power lies in harnessing the unchecked rage of roadgeeks and channeling it into nonsensical interstates in North Carolina.

The only problem is that FHWA, which does have regulatory power, often simply rubber-stamps the AASHTO/SCOURN decisions.  I guess they figure that the more they can "farm out" to other entities, the less work they have to do!

Beltway

Quote from: Highway63 on June 12, 2018, 05:47:52 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 07, 2018, 03:27:40 PM
Keep in mind that AASHTO is not a regulatory agency like FHWA. It's a voluntary organization of state DOTs and has no enforcement power.
Right. Its power lies in harnessing the unchecked rage of roadgeeks and channeling it into nonsensical interstates in North Carolina.

It is listed in the DSM-V as "Interstate insanity".
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

3467

Found this old thread to let you know the section to Peoria is pretty much dead. Canton IL cut a deal to 4 lane US 24 instead so there would have to be a new study between there and Macomb. More details in Southern Illinois notes in Ohio Valley of anyone cares. ....



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