Birmingham

[BamaZeus]

I found this from Tuesday where the ALDOT guy basically shoots down any chance of moving 20/59 from downtown to Finley.  It's a long read, but very thorough.

http://weldbham.com/blog/2013/11/26/end-of-the-road/

[codyg1985]

Looks like the plan to replace the I-20/59 bridges through downtown is still on track for 2016: http://www.myfoxal.com/story/24465129/aldot-meets-with-birmingham-leaders-over-i-2059-bridge-replacement?utm_content=buffere81cd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[Tourian]

In the mayor's state of the city address he said he had decided not to fight ALDOT about it.

[codyg1985]

Another public meeting was held last night with some updated plans for replacing the I-20/59 bridge in downtown Birmingham: http://www.myfoxal.com/story/24948905/residents-updated-on-i-2059-bridge-replacement-project

At the end of the video, Brian Davis with ALDOT said that it would take 30 years to do a buried tunnel for I-20/59, and it would cost over $1B to relocate I-20/59.

[froggie]

He might be right on the relocation cost, but the "30 years to do a buried tunnel" is pure shenanigans...

[BamaZeus]

In the last week, they announced they had more holes in one of the overhead sections of 20/59 that needed to be fixed. 

http://www.abc3340.com/video?clipId=9925581&autostart=true

[codyg1985]

More comments about plans to replace the I-20/59 viaduct in downtown Birmingham: http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2014/08/interstate_2059_fountain_heigh.html

[codyg1985]

Even more comments on replacing the I-20/59 viaduct in downtown Birmingham. The project will also include a lot of flyover ramps from the I-20/59/65 interchange to 11th Ave N, and from I-20/59 east of the viaduct from 25th St. http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2015/04/aldot_gets_earful_on_i-2059_br.html

[Charles2]

Wonder what the plans are for the detour of 20/59 once construction (finally) begins?  Obviously, 459 is going to come into play in a major way.  What is going to be dicey is the amount of additional traffic  that will be ferried onto an already overcrowded I-65 through Hoover, Homewood and Southside.

Is it just me, or is it time to reroute I-20 onto 459 to divert some of the through traffic out of downtown?  I don't know how much it would really help, but it surely wouldn't hurt that much.  My proposal for the new route number of what is now I-20 between the I-59 split and I-459 would be either I-620 or I-659.

[froggie]

I'd hazard a bet that the amount of I-20 "through traffic" that could potentially be diverted is on the order of 4-digits, not 5.  Because of that, I doubt rerouting I-20 would help much.

[codyg1985]

I-20 and I-59 through traffic would most likely just use I-459 to their respective junctions. The only traffic that would have to use I-65 between I-20/59 and I-459 would be the movement between I-65 North and I-20 East (or I-59 North).

[codyg1985]

Federal lawsuit seeks halt of project to replace I-20/59 bridges through downtown Birmingham: http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2015/10/federal_lawsuit_seeks_halt_of.html

The lawsuit asks that a judge order ALDOT and the Federal Highway Administration to take a "hard look" to all reasonable alternatives to the current project and conduct a new environmental assessment that includes a look at the economic impact it could have on Birmingham's recently revived downtown.

[codyg1985]

ALDOT is moving forward with the I-20/59 viaduct replacement. The massive project to revamp the I-20/59/65 interchange is going to bet let on January 22nd. It will be in the neighborhood of $200 million. The project will add ramps to access 11th Avenue directly from I-20/59 and I-65, as well as ramps to directly access 17th Street from both I-20/59 and I-65. It will also widen the brief stretch of I-20/59 west of I-65 where it necks down to three lanes in each direction between Arkadelphia and I-65.

It will be a huge mess, and Malfunction Junction will live up to its name even more once this is finished.

The main part of the project, which will replace the I-20/59 viaduct, is scheduled to bet let in May.

[codyg1985]

ALDOT responds to lawsuit seeking to halt I-20/59 bridge replacement: http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/01/highway_officials_respond_to_l.html

[The Ghostbuster]

ALDOT should go foward with their new design. The lawsuit will likely only prolong the inevitable, and that is the reconstruction of the Interstate. Surely, they could put MOVE2059's park to the north of the freeway in between 11th Ave N and 12th Ave N.

[froggie]

The lawsuit would not prevent ALDOT from redecking the existing bridge, which would solve the existing structural problems.  But ALDOT doesn't want to do just that because they want to widen the bridge.  That's where the disagreement comes in.

[Charles2]

A response from the director of ALDOT:

http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/01/aldot_director_plan_for_i-2059.html#incart_river_home

[codyg1985]

I wonder if a cut-and-cover tunnel or depressing the interstate below grade was considered?

[froggie]

It was.  ALDOT didn't like that option, either.

[Grzrd]

I wonder if a cut-and-cover tunnel or depressing the interstate below grade was considered?

Here's an old thread on the possibility of doing so:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3148.msg69511#msg69511

This September 12, 2010 article that was linked in the above thread indicated that depressing the interstate was feasible, but had a price tag of $700 million:

Engineers and proponents of a $700 million plan to sink Interstate 20/59 below street level through downtown Birmingham are ready for the next step in making the ambitious project come true.
More than a year ago, a feasibility study showed the plan was viable. The Alabama Department of Transportation has since made changes and agrees the plan to sink the interstate would work.
Now, New York-based engineering firm Parsons Brinckerhoff Inc. must demonstrate through actual traffic simulation models that the promise of the design on paper will be fulfilled in reality ....
The study is being funded through a $20,000 grant from the Community Foundation of Greater Birmingham, which was used to secure $80,000 in federal grants through the Regional Planning Commission of Greater Birmingham, according to Chris Hatcher, vice president of planning at Operation New Birmingham.
"This next phase will analyze if the design truly works," Hatcher said.
Computer models will be built that replicate the engineering plans and will provide views of the proposed changes from a variety of perspectives, he said.
Hatcher said the traffic model study, which should be complete by early 2011, is another in several steps needed to move the project to a position that will get it on the federal transportation plan for funding.
"There is a lot of work to try to get done to get the project into the federal funding cycle," he said.
Bill Foisy, director of planning for the Regional Planning Commission of Greater Birmingham, said the I-20/59 project is on the official long-term plan for the region, slated for 2035 as a "visionary" project, meaning it's a worthwhile project but does not have a source of funding.
"We as planners are in favor of the plan," Foisy said. "We want to help get to the ultimate step where you have a huge engineering study, environmental study and everything else. It's all a prelude to becoming a formal project that DOT takes on as a formal project."
Hatcher said getting the Alabama Department of Transportation to deem the plan feasible was no easy task.
"ALDOT was very skeptical going into it," he said. "After we made some changes they pointed out, they agreed the engineering is sound and the plan would work."
The engineers at Parsons Brinckerhoff already had a good idea it would, having done similar, more complex engineering for the Fort Washington Way reconfiguration project in Cincinnati. The firm also worked with similar projects in Cleveland and Columbus, Ohio, and Asheville, N.C., where cities were split by interstates built in the 1960s under looser design standards than today's.Parsons Brinkerhoff's study of the stretch of interstate through downtown Birmingham from "malfunction junction," as it is often called, agreed with the consensus traffic engineers have had for years, concluding the road has too much traffic and design flaws that require mandatory lane crossovers.
Engineers say the new plan would eliminate the problem of drivers crossing multiple lanes to reach exits on that part of the interstate. Those lane crossings require drivers to weave, brake and merge continuously through the junction. Merge lanes in the junction are too short for the amount of traffic in the interchange, according to the feasibility study.
Instead of exit ramps, local traffic would access the interstate through a series of access roads roads in the redesigned roadway. The lowered interstate system would better meet Federal Highway Administration and Alabama Department of Transportation regulations, Parsons Brinckerhoff's study said.

I have not seen any recent articles about the concept; I suppose the $700 million price tag (2010 dollars) has effectively killed the idea.

ALDOT responds to lawsuit seeking to halt I-20/59 bridge replacement: http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/01/highway_officials_respond_to_l.html

In responding to the lawsuit, ALDOT denies that it failed to analyze or consider a "sinking the route" alternative:

-   ALDOT denies that it failed to analyze or consider a "sinking the route" alternative to its plans for the continued elevated roadway. "ALDOT admits that both it and the city recognize that the referenced I-59/20 bridge is reaching the end of its design life, and has many vintage characteristics that do not represent current design practices and safety considerations."
Move I 20/59 has said that when ALDOT first presented its plans for the project in 2012, it was a $100 million emergency repair calling for re-decking. However, local and county officials asked that the scope of the project be expanded to address other concerns and that more than quadrupled the original cost to more than $400 million, the group states.

$400+ million cost for the project vs. $700 million for "sinking the route".  "Sinking the route"  may well be worth the extra $300 million.  What's the estimated cost for the entire Northern Beltline?

A response from the director of ALDOT:
http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/01/aldot_director_plan_for_i-2059.html#incart_river_home

Interestingly, Director Cooper's letter does not address the "sinking the route" alternative.

[froggie]

What's the estimated cost for the entire Northern Beltline?

$5 billion and change.

[Grzrd]

$400+ million cost for the project vs. $700 million for "sinking the route".  "Sinking the route"  may well be worth the extra $300 million.  What's the estimated cost for the entire Northern Beltline? ....

A response from the director of ALDOT:
http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/01/aldot_director_plan_for_i-2059.html#incart_river_home

Interestingly, Director Cooper's letter does not address the "sinking the route" alternative.

What's the estimated cost for the entire Northern Beltline?

$5 billion and change.

This February 10 TV video reports on an ALDOT "invitation only" meeting to discuss what to put in the currently fenced-off area under the I-59/20 bridges and includes interviews with Move I 20/59 officials:

New details tonight, about what could go under the Interstate 59/20 bridges downtown once the replacement project is complete.
On January 27, David Fleming, president of REV Birmingham told ABC 33/40 rumors of a "park" in that location were false. Since then, we've learned an "invitation only" meeting was held to discuss that very space.
ALDOT confirmed consultants were brought in to offer ideas. While nothing is set in stone, ABC 33/40 is told the plan is to make this area more "walkable" and "connected."
"We've had lots of conversations about the lack of connectivity," said Gail Andrews, director of the Birmingham Museum of Art.
Andrews is one of the stakeholders who attended last Thursday's meeting.
She says this question kept coming up, "What can we do to create a more welcoming presence? (And) increase our connectivity?"
Some of the other stakeholders include the Alabama School of Fine Arts, the BJCC, and the City of Birmingham.
Andrews explains, "It really is a group of us saying 'alright, this could go forward,' what are we going to do to make the situation better?"
"I wouldn't have found out about (the meeting) had it not been for another neighborhood officer who forwarded an email to me," says Darrell O'Quinn. O'Quinn is the executive director of Move I 20/59.
"(The meeting) was actually in the BJCC," O'Quinn said. "You wouldn't have been able to find it without very specific instructions."
O'Quinn is part of a federal lawsuit to stop the bridge replacement project. We asked him what he gathered from the stakeholder meeting.
"All the information gathering should have happened on the front end, with the community (involved)," said O'Quinn. "It looks like it's designed to fail."
Gail Andrews has this message for naysayers. "We have to do something. This is blocked off, it's not a good environment right now," she said. "We're wasting the space. No one is walking through. Nobody can walk through. I think we have to take advantage of every opportunity we have."
Right now, ALDOT is waiting on the consultants and stakeholders to come back with a plan that "could" go under the newly replaced Interstate 59/20 bridges.

At the risk of repeating myself, when I compare the additional $300 million cost to "sink the route" and improve the overall business and cultural climate for Birmingham in the short term, which in economic terms could dwarf the $300 million figure, to the $5 billion+ cost to build a Northern Beltline which by all appearances will do a poor job of bypass connections, even in the long term .......... 

[codyg1985]

I think the park under the new bridges is a good idea. The current configuration has left entrances and exits onto the viaduct above, and the new bridges won't be any ramps to get in the way, so that will free up some space. It isn't ideal, but it is certainly better than nothing.

[codyg1985]

Here are some renderings of the interchanges with I-65 and US 31/280 will look like when the project is finished: http://abc3340.com/news/local/gallery/aldot-director-john-cooper-speaks-with-abc-3340

[Rothman]

That's the cheeriest park-under-an-interchange I've ever seen.  Might as well make the homeless/vagrants that'll settle there comfortable.