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Author Topic: PA Turnpike News  (Read 876811 times)

famartin

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2850 on: December 03, 2022, 04:03:14 PM »

The Pennsylvania Turnpike should be 3 lanes in each direction the entire length, especially west of Exit 201 and east of Exit 226. It's way too windy and weavy to be any narrower. It needs widening to be a safe road.

I don't see any sign of backups along the entire road, so such a widening is unnecessary. Certain sections do need widening, but what I've seen suggests they are actually the 3-lane sections of 276 which need it the most.
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famartin

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2851 on: December 03, 2022, 04:39:01 PM »

Not because of the traffic, but because of how dangerously curvy it is west of Exit 201. Drivers need more room to navigate those sharp turns through the terrain without flipping their cars over.

Curves are solved by straightening, banking, or by lowering the speed limit. Widening doesn't help all that much and is considerably more costly compared to the better solutions.
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davewiecking

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2852 on: December 03, 2022, 04:46:03 PM »

Not because of the traffic, but because of how dangerously curvy it is west of Exit 201. Drivers need more room to navigate those sharp turns through the terrain without flipping their cars over.

I feel like I wandered into the wrong theater at the multiplex, but I meant to watch something I HAVENíT ALREADY SEEN.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2853 on: December 03, 2022, 06:30:21 PM »

Not because of the traffic, but because of how dangerously curvy it is west of Exit 201. Drivers need more room to navigate those sharp turns through the terrain without flipping their cars over.

I'm sure we've asked in the past, but how many crashes have you been in or seen the aftermath of in this area of roadway?

If I were to answer this myself, my current number is 0.
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Crown Victoria

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2854 on: December 03, 2022, 08:25:37 PM »

Quick trip to western PA this weekend...and can confirm removal of the church steps in New Baltimore is in progress as part of reconstructing MP 126-130.

Not surprising. There was no safe parking for the stairs and the widening was just going to exacerbate the problem. Achieving ADA compliance would have also been tricky, requiring long ramps, and the new Findley Street bridge was built without a sidewalk.

Not to mention the federal government would never allow the steps to remain. It's a miracle they made it this long!

Drove through the construction west of Somerset this week.  It looked like some of the new alignments were awaiting final paving, and there was paving on the eastbound side of the roadway.  However, I didn't see much done on the westbound side, which would make it difficult to switch to reconstructing the inner roadway.

Yeah I noticed that myself. There were a few short stretches with pavement on the westbound side, but most of it is not paved. At this point in the year, I doubt much else will happen until springtime.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 08:36:49 PM by Crown Victoria »
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seicer

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2855 on: December 03, 2022, 10:59:21 PM »

Not because of the traffic, but because of how dangerously curvy it is west of Exit 201. Drivers need more room to navigate those sharp turns through the terrain without flipping their cars over.

Accident statistics prove otherwise.

MASTERNC

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2856 on: December 04, 2022, 08:00:56 PM »

The Pennsylvania Turnpike should be 3 lanes in each direction the entire length, especially west of Exit 201 and east of Exit 226. It's way too windy and weavy to be any narrower. It needs widening to be a safe road.

I don't see any sign of backups along the entire road, so such a widening is unnecessary. Certain sections do need widening, but what I've seen suggests they are actually the 3-lane sections of 276 which need it the most.

The sections west of Valley Forge are quite busy and can use the third lane (I know they are working on one section, with work on another starting in a few months).  The section between Somerset and Breezewood can get quite congested, especially around holidays, given the I-70 overlap.  Unfortunately, the one section east of Somerset will likely be the last to be widened because it was one of the first to be reconstructed about 20 years ago.
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famartin

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2857 on: December 04, 2022, 08:45:34 PM »

The Pennsylvania Turnpike should be 3 lanes in each direction the entire length, especially west of Exit 201 and east of Exit 226. It's way too windy and weavy to be any narrower. It needs widening to be a safe road.

I don't see any sign of backups along the entire road, so such a widening is unnecessary. Certain sections do need widening, but what I've seen suggests they are actually the 3-lane sections of 276 which need it the most.

The sections west of Valley Forge are quite busy and can use the third lane (I know they are working on one section, with work on another starting in a few months).  The section between Somerset and Breezewood can get quite congested, especially around holidays, given the I-70 overlap.  Unfortunately, the one section east of Somerset will likely be the last to be widened because it was one of the first to be reconstructed about 20 years ago.

Busy is one thing... but are there actual backups?  Daily slowing down to 20-30 mph is typical along portions of 276, I don't see much sign of that occurring (holidays or otherwise) on the mainline further west. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the widening money COULD be better spent elsewhere (though I know they are also doing full reconstruction to interstate standards, something they didn't bother with when they 6-laned 276, so at least there's that).
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MASTERNC

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2858 on: December 04, 2022, 08:54:45 PM »

The Pennsylvania Turnpike should be 3 lanes in each direction the entire length, especially west of Exit 201 and east of Exit 226. It's way too windy and weavy to be any narrower. It needs widening to be a safe road.

I don't see any sign of backups along the entire road, so such a widening is unnecessary. Certain sections do need widening, but what I've seen suggests they are actually the 3-lane sections of 276 which need it the most.

The sections west of Valley Forge are quite busy and can use the third lane (I know they are working on one section, with work on another starting in a few months).  The section between Somerset and Breezewood can get quite congested, especially around holidays, given the I-70 overlap.  Unfortunately, the one section east of Somerset will likely be the last to be widened because it was one of the first to be reconstructed about 20 years ago.

Busy is one thing... but are there actual backups?  Daily slowing down to 20-30 mph is typical along portions of 276, I don't see much sign of that occurring (holidays or otherwise) on the mainline further west. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the widening money COULD be better spent elsewhere (though I know they are also doing full reconstruction to interstate standards, something they didn't bother with when they 6-laned 276, so at least there's that).

There are often stop & go backups during holiday weekends (especially Thanksgiving) on the I-70 overlap section in the areas I mentioned.  Elsewhere the issue is more trucks and slower vehicles clogging the left lane.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2859 on: December 04, 2022, 09:12:30 PM »

The Pennsylvania Turnpike should be 3 lanes in each direction the entire length, especially west of Exit 201 and east of Exit 226. It's way too windy and weavy to be any narrower. It needs widening to be a safe road.

I don't see any sign of backups along the entire road, so such a widening is unnecessary. Certain sections do need widening, but what I've seen suggests they are actually the 3-lane sections of 276 which need it the most.

The sections west of Valley Forge are quite busy and can use the third lane (I know they are working on one section, with work on another starting in a few months).  The section between Somerset and Breezewood can get quite congested, especially around holidays, given the I-70 overlap.  Unfortunately, the one section east of Somerset will likely be the last to be widened because it was one of the first to be reconstructed about 20 years ago.

Busy is one thing... but are there actual backups?  Daily slowing down to 20-30 mph is typical along portions of 276, I don't see much sign of that occurring (holidays or otherwise) on the mainline further west. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the widening money COULD be better spent elsewhere (though I know they are also doing full reconstruction to interstate standards, something they didn't bother with when they 6-laned 276, so at least there's that).

There are often stop & go backups during holiday weekends (especially Thanksgiving) on the I-70 overlap section in the areas I mentioned.  Elsewhere the issue is more trucks and slower vehicles clogging the left lane.

Gotta justify the need for a widening for more than a handful of days a year. Nearly every road needs a widening based on that criteria.

If it was congested multiple times each weekend all summer long, then it's worth looking into a widening.
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VTGoose

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2860 on: December 05, 2022, 10:52:59 AM »

Not because of the traffic, but because of how dangerously curvy it is west of Exit 201. Drivers need more room to navigate those sharp turns through the terrain without flipping their cars over.

Or people could just actually drive for the conditions and not have to worry about "flipping their cars over." If someone is that reckless then perhaps they shouldn't be on the road.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2861 on: December 05, 2022, 12:50:51 PM »

Not because of the traffic, but because of how dangerously curvy it is west of Exit 201. Drivers need more room to navigate those sharp turns through the terrain without flipping their cars over.

Or people could just actually drive for the conditions and not have to worry about "flipping their cars over." If someone is that reckless then perhaps they shouldn't be on the road.

But most of those curves can't even handle the speed limit.

That's not unusual.  That's why God invented advisory speeds.
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kphoger

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2862 on: December 05, 2022, 12:57:21 PM »

The Pennsylvania Turnpike should be 3 lanes in each direction the entire length, especially west of Exit 201 and east of Exit 226. It's way too windy and weavy to be any narrower. It needs widening to be a safe road.

Who let this troll in the thread?


Not because of the traffic, but because of how dangerously curvy it is west of Exit 201. Drivers need more room to navigate those sharp turns through the terrain without flipping their cars over.

Curves are solved by straightening, banking, or by lowering the speed limit. Widening doesn't help all that much and is considerably more costly compared to the better solutions.

This.  All another lane would add is a paved place for the flipped car to land.
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J N Winkler

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2863 on: December 05, 2022, 01:11:56 PM »

Gotta justify the need for a widening for more than a handful of days a year. Nearly every road needs a widening based on that criteria.

If it was congested multiple times each weekend all summer long, then it's worth looking into a widening.

This is why the starting point for a decision as to how much capacity to add is the number of lanes required to accommodate the design hour volume at a target LOS that is often specified as LOS B for rural freeways and LOS D for urban freeways.  (The justification for using an inferior LOS in urban areas is that congestion is more tolerable in small doses.)  DHV is traditionally defined as the 30th highest hour in the design year, but in special circumstances (e.g., very high cost to widen and extreme seasonality of traffic) can be something like the 100th highest hour.

On this forum, we tend to discuss whether widenings are justified or not in terms of very crude present-day AADT warrants (e.g., 10,000 VPD in flat country for widening from two-lane to four-lane divided, or 30,000 VPD for freeway widening from four to six lanes) because that is the only form of traffic data that is conveniently available from most state DOTs.  The traffic modeling on which most actual widening decisions are based tends to be more closely held.
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MultiMillionMiler

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2864 on: December 05, 2022, 01:19:17 PM »

Not because of the traffic, but because of how dangerously curvy it is west of Exit 201. Drivers need more room to navigate those sharp turns through the terrain without flipping their cars over.

Or people could just actually drive for the conditions and not have to worry about "flipping their cars over." If someone is that reckless then perhaps they shouldn't be on the road.

But most of those curves can't even handle the speed limit.

That's not unusual.  That's why God invented advisory speeds.

Well given the speed limit already drops to 50 or 55 around those curves, the advisory speed is likely 40-45 mph.
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jmacswimmer

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2865 on: December 05, 2022, 01:35:07 PM »

^

It was already discussed in your now-locked thread that the only locations where the speed limit drops from 70 to 55 (excluding tunnels & toll plaza approaches) is the stretch east of the Allegheny Mountain Tunnel & the stretch east of Bensalem.  I don't see any curve advisory speeds on the stretch east of the Allegheny Mountain Tunnel (meaning 55 is appropriate for those curves), and from a quick GSV sampling 55-60 seems to be the typical curve advisory speed elsewhere.

If you're going to keep beating this dead horse, at least do it in your containment thread & stop polluting legitimate threads with this car-flipping nonsense.
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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2866 on: December 07, 2022, 07:57:53 AM »

This is why the starting point for a decision as to how much capacity to add is the number of lanes required to accommodate the design hour volume at a target LOS ... .   DHV is traditionally defined as the 30th highest hour in the design year, but in special circumstances (e.g., very high cost to widen and extreme seasonality of traffic) can be something like the 100th highest hour.

"LOS"?  "DHV"?
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zzcarp

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2867 on: December 07, 2022, 09:30:16 AM »

This is why the starting point for a decision as to how much capacity to add is the number of lanes required to accommodate the design hour volume at a target LOS ... .   DHV is traditionally defined as the 30th highest hour in the design year, but in special circumstances (e.g., very high cost to widen and extreme seasonality of traffic) can be something like the 100th highest hour.

"LOS"?  "DHV"?

These are traffic engineering terms.

LOS is Level of Service, generally graded from "A" in the free-flowing condition to "F" in the constant traffic jam/demand>capacity scenario.

DHV is the Design Hourly Volume, as defined above.
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kalvado

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2868 on: December 07, 2022, 08:26:01 PM »

Not because of the traffic, but because of how dangerously curvy it is west of Exit 201. Drivers need more room to navigate those sharp turns through the terrain without flipping their cars over.

Or people could just actually drive for the conditions and not have to worry about "flipping their cars over." If someone is that reckless then perhaps they shouldn't be on the road.

But most of those curves can't even handle the speed limit.

That's not unusual.  That's why God invented advisory speeds.
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qguy

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2869 on: December 09, 2022, 06:47:56 AM »

^^^^^
That's priceless! :-D
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ARMOURERERIC

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2870 on: December 23, 2022, 10:18:43 PM »

Looks like the mainline mp 308 to 312 is next up on the reconstruction hit parade.  Bids open 2/1/23
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MASTERNC

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2872 on: January 08, 2023, 09:18:09 PM »

The question is why they still need to round tolls up to the next dime when cash is no longer collected. It makes the toll increase percentage meaningless because the actual increase is often more than advertised. E-ZPass and Toll by Plate can bill in one cent increments.
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kalvado

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2873 on: January 08, 2023, 09:21:02 PM »

The question is why they still need to round tolls up to the next dime when cash is no longer collected. It makes the toll increase percentage meaningless because the actual increase is often more than advertised. E-ZPass and Toll by Plate can bill in one cent increments.
Because this allows for slightly more cash under same PR and regulation stack?
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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2874 on: January 08, 2023, 09:52:35 PM »

The question is why they still need to round tolls up to the next dime when cash is no longer collected. It makes the toll increase percentage meaningless because the actual increase is often more than advertised. E-ZPass and Toll by Plate can bill in one cent increments.
Because this allows for slightly more cash under same PR and regulation stack?

Yeah, I feel like it has to be to get slightly more revenue out of each increase with how deep in the hole they are from the Act 44/89 payments. I remember the increases did use to round each E-ZPass amount to the nearest penny and each cash amount to the nearest nickel, as recently as 2018 I want to say? (I remember the first time I used the NE Extension after opening my E-ZPass account in 2018, I paid $3.89 from Mid-County to Lehigh Valley.)
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