Oddities that defy conventional wisdom - POPULATION edition

[Takumi]

When the Triangle and the Triad do eventually merge, I propose they call it what rural Tar Heels will love and more liberal ones will hate.

______?

Tobacco Road?

Piedmont Crescent, and keep the name once that area merges with the Charlotte area

Call that monstrosity the Carolina Triplex.

[dvferyance]

I agree with your sentiment but I think what you're saying is that NY needs another large city. Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, and Albany are all pretty clearly mid-sized cities/metro areas IMO.

Depends on what you consider a "medium sized" city. For me, any city below 350-400K is midsized, but interpretations vary.

St Louis, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh are "mid-sized" while El Paso, Mesa AZ and Aurora CO are "large" then?

I know this is kind of off topic I know St Louis is completely surrounded by cities but why doesn't Cincinnati simply annex all the unincorporated areas of Hamilton County? That could boost their population by another 150,000-200,000.

Would the added tax base offset the need to provide services to all of that area? If the population density is low enough, you spend more money running water and sewer lines out to the new places than you can recover in taxes (this is a problem Oklahoma City has had in annexing vast swaths of rural Oklahoma County).

Much of unincorporated Hamilton County is pretty urban. The only exceptions would be far west to northwest. There are many Ohio cites that have lost population that are adjacent to unincorporated developed areas like Dayton. Youngstown, Akron and Canton.

[Road Hog]

When the Triangle and the Triad do eventually merge, I propose they call it what rural Tar Heels will love and more liberal ones will hate.

______?

The Six Pack! 

[kphoger]

In each of the maps below, the population size is approximately the same between blue and yellow.

[jgb191]

The city of Corpus Christi, Texas has more people than those of several sports cities like Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Green Bay, Orlando, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and Salt Lake City.

My home state of Texas has nearly a dozen cities which are greater than a quarter-million (counting a couple of suburbs).  Texas has more than seventy cities larger than the largest city of West Virginia.

Pasadena, Texas is larger than Pasadena, California; yet not very many people seem to be aware of the larger of the two.

[kirbykart]

^The Corpus Christi one is the craziest. I would have figured it was about the size of Buffalo, maybe a bit smaller.


   What shocks me is, the second-most populated state capital is Austin.

   Also, many people don't know that Columbus, OH is more populated than Cleveland and Cincinnati.

[kalvado]

The city of Corpus Christi, Texas has more people than those of several sports cities like Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Green Bay, Orlando, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and Salt Lake City.

My home state of Texas has nearly a dozen cities which are greater than a quarter-million (counting a couple of suburbs).  Texas has more than seventy cities larger than the largest city of West Virginia.

Pasadena, Texas is larger than Pasadena, California; yet not very many people seem to be aware of the larger of the two.

While looking at the core cities only is pretty popular; MSAs are telling a different story. My understanding this partially due to the way cities and suburbs, and their annexation, work.
Buffalo MSA - #49, 1.16 million, principal city is 278k, 24%
Corpus Christie MSA -  #132, 423 k, principal city is 326k, 77%

[ran4sh]

Plus, the sports teams actually care about media markets rather than MSAs. Because media markets is how the league divides the country into each team's territory, plus allows rural people to contribute to the popularity of their team by watching on TV.

And this is what I was told when I tried to edit the Wikipedia article about sports teams and their MSAs and media markets.

But there is a good video on Youtube by Geography King that explains that some western metro areas have grown large enough to support their own team while some Rust Belt areas have shrunk and they only have teams because they were able to get them in the past.

[J N Winkler]

I'm not sure how up to date this still is--I first heard it about 20 years ago:  50% of the US population lives within 50 miles of a seacoast.

[NWI_Irish96]

Plus, the sports teams actually care about media markets rather than MSAs. Because media markets is how the league divides the country into each team's territory, plus allows rural people to contribute to the popularity of their team by watching on TV.

And this is what I was told when I tried to edit the Wikipedia article about sports teams and their MSAs and media markets.

But there is a good video on Youtube by Geography King that explains that some western metro areas have grown large enough to support their own team while some Rust Belt areas have shrunk and they only have teams because they were able to get them in the past.

The largest MSAs that don't have major sports teams are all adjacent to or very near larger MSAs that do:

#12 Riverside is adjacent to #2 LA
#23 Orlando is adjacent to #18 Tampa
#28 Austin is triangulated by #4 Dallas, #5 Houston and #24 San Antonio

The existing franchise owners in these areas would block any new or relocated franchises this close to theirs.

The largest MSA that really doesn't have any major teams nearby is #37 Virginia Beach.

If you suddenly gave every fan in every sport a very specific amnesia where they forget what teams they're a fan of (but not what sports), and then re-allocated the existing franchises based only on market size and research, I don't think very many, if any of the older cities would lose franchises.

You might get an NBA team in Columbus instead of Cleveland. Jacksonville's NFL team might end up in Portland, Virginia Beach, or a 2nd team in Chicago.

[jgb191]

^

Orlando has the Magic (NBA); but yeah you could count Orlando/Tampa-St. Petersburg as Central Florida, Jacksonville is North Florida, and Miami/Ft. Lauderdale as South Florida -- three separate areas

Also If the Greater LA area must have two teams, move one of them to Riverside, Anaheim, or Long Beach.  But I see no reason why any single MSA/CSA should have a plural number of teams; keep it singular.

How far is Norfolk to Washington in terms of straight-line distance?  In a straight line, Austin to San Antonio is 74 miles; Austin to Dallas-Ft. Worth is over 180 miles, Austin to Houston is almost 150 miles.

It doesn't seem like Washington to Baltimore to Philadelphia is spaced all that far out between each.  The Texas cities look to be much more spaced apart.

While looking at the core cities only is pretty popular; MSAs are telling a different story. My understanding this partially due to the way cities and suburbs, and their annexation, work.
Buffalo MSA - #49, 1.16 million, principal city is 278k, 24%
Corpus Christie MSA -  #132, 423 k, principal city is 326k, 77%

I can try something else here:  The Brownsville and McAllen MSAs (which might as well be one larger CSA put together) is comparable to Buffalo-Niagra area.  The Rio Grande Valley area is almost 1.4 million could be closing in on 2 million by the end of this decade.

[Rothman]

Plus, the sports teams actually care about media markets rather than MSAs. Because media markets is how the league divides the country into each team's territory, plus allows rural people to contribute to the popularity of their team by watching on TV.

And this is what I was told when I tried to edit the Wikipedia article about sports teams and their MSAs and media markets.

But there is a good video on Youtube by Geography King that explains that some western metro areas have grown large enough to support their own team while some Rust Belt areas have shrunk and they only have teams because they were able to get them in the past.

The largest MSAs that don't have major sports teams are all adjacent to or very near larger MSAs that do:

#12 Riverside is adjacent to #2 LA
#23 Orlando is adjacent to #18 Tampa
#28 Austin is triangulated by #4 Dallas, #5 Houston and #24 San Antonio

The existing franchise owners in these areas would block any new or relocated franchises this close to theirs.

The largest MSA that really doesn't have any major teams nearby is #37 Virginia Beach.

If you suddenly gave every fan in every sport a very specific amnesia where they forget what teams they're a fan of (but not what sports), and then re-allocated the existing franchises based only on market size and research, I don't think very many, if any of the older cities would lose franchises.

You might get an NBA team in Columbus instead of Cleveland. Jacksonville's NFL team might end up in Portland, Virginia Beach, or a 2nd team in Chicago.

Bring back the Syracuse Nationals.

[Bruce]

#12 Riverside is adjacent to #2 LA
#23 Orlando is adjacent to #18 Tampa
#28 Austin is triangulated by #4 Dallas, #5 Houston and #24 San Antonio

Orlando and Austin both have MLS teams, so they're covered. Austin-San Antonio is generally considered a single combined market for sports leagues, hence why the former's MLS bid meant the latter's was doomed.

You might get an NBA team in Columbus instead of Cleveland. Jacksonville's NFL team might end up in Portland, Virginia Beach, or a 2nd team in Chicago.

Portland is unlikely to get an NFL team, as there is no suitable stadium or a plan to build one.

[formulanone]

When the Triangle and the Triad do eventually merge, I propose they call it what rural Tar Heels will love and more liberal ones will hate.

______?

Tobacco Road?

Piedmont Crescent, and keep the name once that area merges with the Charlotte area

Call that monstrosity the Carolina Triplex.

The Tri-Oval

[index]

New York is the only state besides Hawaii where the majority of its population lives on an island (50.8%).

Legally speaking, NYC + Long Island is a peninsula and is treated as such by the courts and the government, but also legally speaking, pizza is a vegetable and cannabis has no accepted medical purpose, so that doesn't mean very much.

[hotdogPi]

I can confirm that it's accurate, but how does it defy conventional wisdom?

[Rothman]

New York is the only state besides Hawaii where the majority of its population lives on an island (50.8%).

Legally speaking, NYC + Long Island is a peninsula and is treated as such by the courts and the government, but also legally speaking, pizza is a vegetable and cannabis has no accepted medical purpose, so that doesn't mean very much.

I don't think an island works.  The four counties on Long Island only total about 8 million.  You have to add in other islands to go over 50%.

[vdeane]

pizza is a vegetable

That's a pretty awesome legality.

[freebrickproductions]

pizza is a vegetable

That's a pretty awesome legality.

Wouldn't be surprised to find-out it's related to the fact that, here in the US, tomatoes are legally considered vegetables, mainly for tax/customs purposes.

[CtrlAltDel]

New York is the only state besides Hawaii where the majority of its population lives on an island (50.8%).

Legally speaking, NYC + Long Island is a peninsula and is treated as such by the courts and the government, but also legally speaking, pizza is a vegetable and cannabis has no accepted medical purpose, so that doesn't mean very much.

I don't think an island works.  The four counties on Long Island only total about 8 million.  You have to add in other islands to go over 50%.

I really don't know anyone who lives on two islands.

[Rothman]

New York is the only state besides Hawaii where the majority of its population lives on an island (50.8%).

Legally speaking, NYC + Long Island is a peninsula and is treated as such by the courts and the government, but also legally speaking, pizza is a vegetable and cannabis has no accepted medical purpose, so that doesn't mean very much.

I don't think an island works.  The four counties on Long Island only total about 8 million.  You have to add in other islands to go over 50%.

I really don't know anyone who lives on two islands.

Would owning property on multiple islands count?

[Max Rockatansky]

I can confirm that it's accurate, but how does it defy conventional wisdom?

With Hawaii you could say that Oahu bucks the trend given it was not the traditional population center of the Hawaiian kingdom.  American development post-Kingdom period centered around Pearl Harbor and Honolulu Harbor. 

[kalvado]

New York is the only state besides Hawaii where the majority of its population lives on an island (50.8%).

Legally speaking, NYC + Long Island is a peninsula and is treated as such by the courts and the government, but also legally speaking, pizza is a vegetable and cannabis has no accepted medical purpose, so that doesn't mean very much.

I don't think an island works.  The four counties on Long Island only total about 8 million.  You have to add in other islands to go over 50%.

I really don't know anyone who lives on two islands.

Would owning property on multiple islands count?

Commute from one island to another should count.

[kphoger]

Wouldn't be surprised to find-out it's related to the fact that, here in the US, tomatoes are legally considered vegetables, mainly for tax/customs purposes.

Tomatoes should be considered a vegetable.  That's how we use them.  It shouldn't only be stems and leaves and roots that are considered vegetables.

Or do you also think zucchini, cucumbers, peapods, okra, and jalapeños should be legally considered fruits?

[Takumi]

Wouldn't be surprised to find-out it's related to the fact that, here in the US, tomatoes are legally considered vegetables, mainly for tax/customs purposes.

Tomatoes should be considered a vegetable.  That's how we use them.  It shouldn't only be stems and leaves and roots that are considered vegetables.

Or do you also think zucchini, cucumbers, peapods, okra, and jalapeños should be legally considered fruits?

We can take this even further.