Poor shifting to the suburbs

[Stephane Dumas]

I was referred to an article of the Chicago Tribune from the Skyscraperpage forum http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=177820
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/ct-met-suburban-poverty-20100122,0,4848664.story

[Truvelo]

That makes a change. Wasn't it always the case of the poor living in the inner suburbs and the wealthy moving out to outer suburbs?

[Scott5114]

In college I took a 100-level class about urban planning and how cities work and one of the first things we covered is that the standard model most of us think of (poorest downtown, middle class in the suburbs, rich on the periphery) is really only found in the U.S. In a lot of other societies (I believe Mexico was one of them) the wealthy elite prefer to be "in the heart of the action" downtown, with decreasing affluence resulting in increasing distance from the core, until it blends seamlessly with the poorer agricultural settlements in the rural areas. Maybe the U.S. is starting to trend towards that. (Although in the U.S. agriculture really isn't the domain of the poor...)

[Chris]

Paris is a good example. Expensive downtown with a lot of upscale housing, neglected and decayed social housing suburbs around that, and then a third ring of regular suburbs for the upper and middle class.

What always amaze me is the lack of social housing apartments in most U.S. cities, poor neighborhoods are still detached homes, although such areas of detached housing are usually seen as upscale in Europe. In the Netherlands rowhouses are by far the most common form of residential housing. Few can afford detached housing, as they are usually in the $ 700,000 + range (except in villages). Texas-style homes are usually in the $ 1 - 1.5 million + range in suburban developments. (0.2 acre lots).

[yanksfan6129]

In Texas, you can buy a house that has around 5000 square feet of living space and 100 acres of land for practically nothing...much less than $700,000.

It's interesting (yet not surprinsing) that the trend of the rich in the suburbs is reversing...it seems to me that much of the island of Manhattan is now affluent, all you see going up are luxury condos/apartments (although since the recession it has slowed a bit). Obviously, this doesn't hold true in all cities (I'm looking at you, Detroit).

[Stephane Dumas]

It's interesting (yet not surprinsing) that the trend of the rich in the suburbs is reversing...it seems to me that much of the island of Manhattan is now affluent, all you see going up are luxury condos/apartments (although since the recession it has slowed a bit). Obviously, this doesn't hold true in all cities (I'm looking at you, Detroit).

Add also some areas who was once bad, beginned to see gentrification in some areas of Brooklyn for example like Williamsburg 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfyycHoqDRA

As for Detroit, there the Midtown who's on a roll from what I read at
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=177933
http://www.detnews.com/article/20100125/METRO/1250372/1001/Detroit-s-Midtown-district-is-on-a-roll and there was in the Spring of 2009, some articles about an artist colony installing in Detroit http://detnews.com/article/20090313/LIFESTYLE/903130306/Detroit-s-hard-edge----and-dirt-cheap-real-estate----attract-artists-from-around-the-world
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/03/17/artists-buying-cheap.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7123194&page=1

[mightyace]

I know this is true in Nashville that there is a lot of construction of upscale apartments and condos in/near downtown Nashville.  Now, one place that I can think of is an abandoned factory/warehouse that is being converted.  (that previously was not an affluent neighborhood)

So, if upscale residences are displacing lower scale ones, then the poorer people have to go somewhere.  And, the closer suburbs in U.S. cities may be getting older and with the economy more houses are being foreclosed/abandoned and apartments going empty then the property owners are more desperate for anyone to occupy them.  Hence, the poor moving in.

[WillWeaverRVA]

This tends to be a result of the gentrification of inner city areas. This is trying to happen in Richmond, though the poorer residents are for the most part staying put despite the city's efforts to revitalize the downtown area. Still, a good number of poorer people have moved to Henrico County or at least to the southern part of Richmond (which is extremely economically depressed).

[mightyace]

^^^^

That's what I was trying to say, but I think you said it better. 

[mgk920]

Paris is a good example. Expensive downtown with a lot of upscale housing, neglected and decayed social housing suburbs around that, and then a third ring of regular suburbs for the upper and middle class.

What always amaze me is the lack of social housing apartments in most U.S. cities, poor neighborhoods are still detached homes, although such areas of detached housing are usually seen as upscale in Europe. In the Netherlands rowhouses are by far the most common form of residential housing. Few can afford detached housing, as they are usually in the $ 700,000 + range (except in villages). Texas-style homes are usually in the $ 1 - 1.5 million + range in suburban developments. (0.2 acre lots).

The USA tried 'social housing apartment' complexes during the middles part of the 10th century - they were an incredible DISASTER.  Most are now long gone and they were a major factor in that now reversing upside-down rich/poor urban mix that this thread is about.

Mike

[Scott5114]

I don't think the USA was trying anything in the mid-10th century

[Chris]

The USA tried 'social housing apartment' complexes during the middles part of the 10th century - they were an incredible DISASTER.  Most are now long gone and they were a major factor in that now reversing upside-down rich/poor urban mix that this thread is about.

Well, I can't say the European social housing flats are a success. They basically do what they have to do; shack up a lot of poor people and do nothing more than that. They are generally seen as the most rundown neighborhoods of almost any city.

This is different in former communist Europe, where not only the poor, but the middle class was living in apartments (commieblocks) as well. Apartment housing is generally not seen as very bad there, just a cheap way to live until you've made a good career. For instance, one Bratislava, Slovakia flat neighborhood houses over 100,000 people but it isn't even the worst part of the city.

Nicolas Oran has a good set on Flickr showing the Paris housing.

Europeans tend to ridicule America's social problems, but take a look at this:







In 2005 a large unrest broke out in many of France's social housing suburbs resulting in thousands of cars burnt across the country. Normally, in France, 140 cars are set on fire every night on average.

[vdeane]

It's better than having them live on the street at least.

[Brandon]

Chris, those pictures remind me of the former Stateway Gardens, Robert Taylor Homes, or Cabrini-Green here in Chicagoland.

[Nexis4Jersey]

The poor are shifting to the Suburbs becuz the Rich and middle class are moving back to the inner city areas, i name a few reasons why.  Its cheaper in taxes , depending on the part safer , and you don't need to use a car, Mass Transit usually better , at least in New Jersey.  Alot of new Developments in Newark , The NJ Gold Coast , Elizabeth are aimed towards the Middle-Class & Rich.  Slowly the NJ Gold Coast poor , poor population is moving away and the crime with it.

~Corey

[mgk920]

Ever since the high-rise public housing buildings along and east of the Dan Ryan Expressway (I-90/94) in Chicago were removed during the late 1990s and into the early 2000s, the neighborhoods in that area (Kenwood, especially, and on northward all the way to downtown) have been *BOOMING* with market-based redevelopment - old buildings being rehabbed, vacant lots being built on, etc.  It's almost like an entirely new city has been built there.

And this area was a real no-mans' land, even by day, as late as the mid-1990s.

Mike

[Brandon]

This isn't a new phenomenon, and the Trib should know better with suburbs like Ford Heights and Harvey in its own backyard.  To be quite honest, having poor folks in the suburbs is nothing new.  What I've noticed is that some shifting around seems to occur from time to time.  However, suburbs like Dolton, Harvey, Ford Heights have never been rich places, and went downhill back in the 60s and early 70s.  We also have had poor in the satellite cities (different than the commuter suburbs) such as Waukegan, Elgin, Aurora, and Joliet for as long as they have been cities.

Corey, I haven't noticed richer folks moving back into those inner city areas.  It is much pricier in Chicago to move into the city than to move out to a Collar County (especially Will, Kendall, Grundy, Kane, or McHenry, or even Lake County, Indiana for that matter).  The mass transit may be better, but the parking situation (with King Richard II) sucks.  However, in some of the suburbs (especially the satellite cities), we have good mass transit access to Chicago with none of the praking problems (and you wonder why Joliet and Aurora grew so fast in the 1990s and 2000s).

[Nexis4Jersey]

Its mostly happening in NJ and a few parts of CT, but i know alot of rich & middle class people that have moved to Jersey City & Elizabeth form Western Jersey to save on the taxes and a few have given up there cars.  The people who move form Newark are mainly form NYC, mostly singles.  Since Newark's bad image is turning around a suction cup has been placed on NYC and other areas.  There is a growing Art disrect and younger diverse areas.

[mgk920]

NYS and NYC have both been majorly turning the screws on taxation on upper-end income earners over the past few years - and because of that they have been fleeing, especially the city, in DROVES.  To them, even though New Jersey is one of the overall more expensive states in the USA to live in, it is still a tax and living-expense 'island'.

Mike

[Stephane Dumas]

I dust-off the old topic, I spotted 2 new topic, a bit related to this one, about young white going from suburbs to cities http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=181569 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/09/suburbs-losing-young-whit_n_569226.html

[Brandon]

^^
I call BS on the articles.  Sure, Lincoln Park and Wrigleyville attract young white professionals here in Chicagoland, but so do Evanston, Hinsdale, and other non-city areas.  Call me once Englewood or Lawndale has young white professionals moving in to displace the gangbangers.  Then it'll be a story.