Poll
Question:
When were the first doghouses installed
Option 1: The 1960s
votes: 9
Option 2: 1970, 1971, or 1972
votes: 3
Option 3: 1973 or 1974
votes: 1
Option 4: 1975 or 1976
votes: 0
Option 5: 1977
votes: 0
I made a few topics like these before, but now this has got me scratching my head. When were the first doghouses installed? The oldest I could find within my area were these 12" Eagle flatbacks in Lower Merion, PA. These are the oldest doghouses that I've ever seen in person. As far as I know, these signals were installed at some point during the seventies:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1930/44252677225_04c8964d52_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2aqsxcx)Eagle Signals on a silver pole w/old doghouse mounted on the side (https://flic.kr/p/2aqsxcx) by thesignalman (https://www.flickr.com/photos/144426590@N04/), on Flickr
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1930/44365530215_7306f9ae87_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2aAqWsK)Eagle Flatback Doghouse (https://flic.kr/p/2aAqWsK) by thesignalman (https://www.flickr.com/photos/144426590@N04/), on Flickr
Illinois does not do doghouses, but 5 light towers have existed at least as far back as the early 1970s, if not into the '60s. They seem to have been concurrent with the adoption of the aluminum truss Illinois used up until the 1980s.
Example, now gone, at 55th and Cass in Westmont: https://goo.gl/maps/5XKTPUTmzNx
The oldest doghouse I've encountered, was a Parallelogram Logo Marbelite 8in from Oberlin and Clark in Raleigh NC. I've since sold this light, but its the oldest green and amber protected left turn light I've encountered.
Quote from: Signal man619 on February 26, 2018, 06:10:43 PM
The oldest doghouse I've encountered, was a Parallelogram Logo Marbelite 8in from Oberlin and Clark in Raleigh NC. I've since sold this light, but its the oldest green and amber protected left turn light I've encountered.
......1960s? Anyways, what about the guy who has this in their garage: http://www.kbrhorse.net/signals/marbdh.html. That's probably older than my Lower Merion doghouses.
Quote from: traffic light guy on February 26, 2018, 07:12:18 PM
Quote from: Signal man619 on February 26, 2018, 06:10:43 PM
The oldest doghouse I've encountered, was a Parallelogram Logo Marbelite 8in from Oberlin and Clark in Raleigh NC. I've since sold this light, but its the oldest green and amber protected left turn light I've encountered.
......1960s? Anyways, what about the guy who has this in their garage: http://www.kbrhorse.net/signals/marbdh.html. That's probably older than my Lower Merion doghouses.
Oh Willis Lamm, a personal good friend of mine, hes extremely knowledgeable. Mine looked identical to his, same hardware and everything. Finding the oldest doghouse signal is a very difficult task, because jurisdictions experimented with different configurations, who knows where the idea of the doghouse originated from. A doghouse signal only requires 5 single section heads and a two way connector bracket. Southern Autoflow experimented something called a "Phasing Red" also called the "Type T" because it was shaped like a "T", it had a modified two way bracket with three red ball signal indications with a single amber and green on the bottom. Kinda hard to describe but I think you get the idea.
Quote from: Signal man619 on February 26, 2018, 08:43:16 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on February 26, 2018, 07:12:18 PM
Quote from: Signal man619 on February 26, 2018, 06:10:43 PM
The oldest doghouse I've encountered, was a Parallelogram Logo Marbelite 8in from Oberlin and Clark in Raleigh NC. I've since sold this light, but its the oldest green and amber protected left turn light I've encountered.
......1960s? Anyways, what about the guy who has this in their garage: http://www.kbrhorse.net/signals/marbdh.html. That's probably older than my Lower Merion doghouses.
Oh Willis Lamm, a personal good friend of mine, hes extremely knowledgeable. Mine looked identical to his, same hardware and everything. Finding the oldest doghouse signal is a very difficult task, because jurisdictions experimented with different configurations, who knows where the idea of the doghouse originated from. A doghouse signal only requires 5 single section heads and a two way connector bracket. Southern Autoflow experimented something called a "Phasing Red" also called the "Type T" because it was shaped like a "T", it had a modified two way bracket with three red ball signal indications with a single amber and green on the bottom. Kinda hard to describe but I think you get the idea.
It's like kinda T-bone traffic light. And is Willis Lamm on this site?
Quote from: traffic light guy on February 26, 2018, 08:49:21 PM
Quote from: Signal man619 on February 26, 2018, 08:43:16 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on February 26, 2018, 07:12:18 PM
Quote from: Signal man619 on February 26, 2018, 06:10:43 PM
The oldest doghouse I've encountered, was a Parallelogram Logo Marbelite 8in from Oberlin and Clark in Raleigh NC. I've since sold this light, but its the oldest green and amber protected left turn light I've encountered.
......1960s? Anyways, what about the guy who has this in their garage: http://www.kbrhorse.net/signals/marbdh.html. That's probably older than my Lower Merion doghouses.
Oh Willis Lamm, a personal good friend of mine, hes extremely knowledgeable. Mine looked identical to his, same hardware and everything. Finding the oldest doghouse signal is a very difficult task, because jurisdictions experimented with different configurations, who knows where the idea of the doghouse originated from. A doghouse signal only requires 5 single section heads and a two way connector bracket. Southern Autoflow experimented something called a "Phasing Red" also called the "Type T" because it was shaped like a "T", it had a modified two way bracket with three red ball signal indications with a single amber and green on the bottom. Kinda hard to describe but I think you get the idea.
It's like kinda T-bone traffic light. And is Willis Lamm on this site?
Not quite sure what a T-bone traffic signal is. I don't know if he is on this site or not, I doubt it. He does not get online that often, he posts rarely on Highway Divides.
Quote from: Signal man619 on February 26, 2018, 08:57:04 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on February 26, 2018, 08:49:21 PM
Quote from: Signal man619 on February 26, 2018, 08:43:16 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on February 26, 2018, 07:12:18 PM
Quote from: Signal man619 on February 26, 2018, 06:10:43 PM
The oldest doghouse I've encountered, was a Parallelogram Logo Marbelite 8in from Oberlin and Clark in Raleigh NC. I've since sold this light, but its the oldest green and amber protected left turn light I've encountered.
......1960s? Anyways, what about the guy who has this in their garage: http://www.kbrhorse.net/signals/marbdh.html. That's probably older than my Lower Merion doghouses.
Oh Willis Lamm, a personal good friend of mine, hes extremely knowledgeable. Mine looked identical to his, same hardware and everything. Finding the oldest doghouse signal is a very difficult task, because jurisdictions experimented with different configurations, who knows where the idea of the doghouse originated from. A doghouse signal only requires 5 single section heads and a two way connector bracket. Southern Autoflow experimented something called a "Phasing Red" also called the "Type T" because it was shaped like a "T", it had a modified two way bracket with three red ball signal indications with a single amber and green on the bottom. Kinda hard to describe but I think you get the idea.
It's like kinda T-bone traffic light. And is Willis Lamm on this site?
Not quite sure what a T-bone traffic signal is. I don't know if he is on this site or not, I doubt it. He does not get online that often, he posts rarely on Highway Divides.
A t-bone traffic light is this:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rock+Hill+Rd+%26+Conshohocken+State+Rd,+Bala+Cynwyd,+PA+19004/@40.0182907,-75.2402591,3a,75y,348.07h,81.03t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLZu8i-Cu-AxCblWEpdJbsg!2e0!5s20120501T000000!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c6b8ae38e9e4d1:0xbfcccbd769c681b7!8m2!3d40.0182455!4d-75.2401663
Look at the head on the far left
Its a fairly common configuration
Here are the doghouses in Bristol, although I couldn't get any pictures, I know where they are on Google Maps. These doghouses are slightly newer than the ones in Lower Merion, but still pretty old, these were also installed during the 1970s:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1189177,-74.8641729,3a,75y,105.75h,77.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn2oE_dlsgVmJmCO00LiyQA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1423913,-74.8460061,3a,75y,155.41h,87.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scLiyG65-eXPfxQiRM2CkYg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0
Not sure if these are still up, the other signalgeeks in my area might know.
Ohio has/had some impressively old doghouses.
And Delaware loves the T-bone. I'd hedge to say they have more of them than any other state.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 26, 2018, 10:22:06 PM
Ohio has/had some impressively old doghouses.
And Delaware loves the T-bone. I'd hedge to say they have more of them than any other state.
What brand were they, Marbelite. And are they older or newer than the Lower Merion, PA doghouses
No clue. They simply appeared much older than most other signals.
I wanna show you guys where the other two really old doghouses were, I just gotta dig it up on google maps. The first one got replaced in 2009, the second one got replaced in 2012.
I know I've seen older doghouses but the only ones I can remember of the top of my head are on Tualatin Sherwood Road where I think only one remains (I'll look tomorrow on Google maps).
Washington State's standard operating procedure for many years, as far as I can tell, was basically to go from fully permissive to fully protected. I can't think of any solidly-old doghouses anywhere in the state. They'd probably be in Spokane, if I had to guess, since of the largest cities in the state (usually the ones with the oldest roads), they're the only one that regularly uses them. Seattle seldom uses doghouses, preferring FYAs these days but formerly a flashing yellow orb, aka "Seattle left turn signal". Tacoma has always used tower setups, attaching a green and yellow arrow to the bottom of the farthest-left green signal when pro-per operation became necessary (like here (https://goo.gl/74QPrK)). Vancouver might have some old doghouses, but I'm not sure. Bellevue has always used bimodal signals (until switching to FYA completely a few years ago).
Based on the age of the intersection, I would guess that this doghouse is probably one of the oldest in Pierce County. The interchange was built in the 60s, but I have no clue if this dates to then: https://goo.gl/EG99FT
Another relatively old signal Puyallup, WA: https://goo.gl/dPmzx9 -- the back has 9 distinct sides. A bit odd.
This old doghouse also has large bumps on the back of each head: https://goo.gl/QyXSGJ
Here's a Washington example of a "t-bone" traffic light (Fife, WA) (very rare up here)
https://goo.gl/9vb1tZ
(https://i.imgur.com/BPuRwVJ.png)
Quote from: jakeroot on February 27, 2018, 02:49:56 AM
Washington State's standard operating procedure for many years, as far as I can tell, was basically to go from fully permissive to fully protected. I can't think of any solidly-old doghouses anywhere in the state. They'd probably be in Spokane, if I had to guess, since of the largest cities in the state (usually the ones with the oldest roads), they're the only one that regularly uses them. Seattle seldom uses doghouses, preferring FYAs these days but formerly a flashing yellow orb, aka "Seattle left turn signal". Tacoma has always used tower setups, attaching a green and yellow arrow to the bottom of the farthest-left green signal when pro-per operation became necessary (like here (https://goo.gl/74QPrK)). Vancouver might have some old doghouses, but I'm not sure. Bellevue has always used bimodal signals (until switching to FYA completely a few years ago).
Based on the age of the intersection, I would guess that this doghouse is probably one of the oldest in Pierce County. The interchange was built in the 60s, but I have no clue if this dates to then: https://goo.gl/EG99FT
Another relatively old signal Puyallup, WA: https://goo.gl/dPmzx9 -- the back has 9 distinct sides. A bit odd.
This old doghouse also has large bumps on the back of each head: https://goo.gl/QyXSGJ
Here's a Washington example of a "t-bone" traffic light (Fife, WA) (very rare up here)
https://goo.gl/9vb1tZ
(https://i.imgur.com/BPuRwVJ.png)
Those doghouses don't look quite as old as mine, I think Pennsylvania takes the cake. Ian however, has pictures of impressively old doghouses that are found in Delaware. Just like mine, they were made by the same company; Eagle Signal. The only difference is, they're hung on span wires, mine are on montotubes. Ian's Delaware doghouses might be even older than mine, just maybe by two or three years. My doghouses are all fully 12-inches, his have a 12-inch read, with 8" yellow and green sections on either side.
The large bumps on the back of that doghouse, are because it's made by a specific company. Each model of signals have a different design on the back. That particular signal was made by the Indiactor Controls Co. (ICC).
That last doghosue, that's shaped like a diamond, was made by Econolite.
I call those "T-bone" traffic lights "Upside-down Ts" personally, though most collectors seem to refer to them as "Dolly Partons". I've seen "4-section Doghouses" used to refer to them as well.
Also, I want to say somewhere up in the northeast (I think it was Delaware), someone found a 12-8-8-8-8 doghouse that had a square-door Econolite bullseye section for the red, which could date it all the way back to 1963 at the earliest.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 27, 2018, 09:25:17 AM
I call those "T-bone" traffic lights "Upside-down Ts" personally, though most collectors seem to refer to them as "Dolly Partons". I've seen "4-section Doghouses" used to refer to them as well.
Also, I want to say somewhere up in the northeast (I think it was Delaware), someone found a 12-8-8-8-8 doghouse that had a square-door Econolite bullseye section for the red, which could date it all the way back to 1963 at the earliest.
You mean this (photo taken by signals unlimited, not me)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7354/12213207283_71ddd86141_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/jBeT2n)12-8-8-8-8 Econolite Long-groove / square door Bullseye doghouse signal (https://flic.kr/p/jBeT2n) by Signals Unlimited (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94611454@N02/), on Flickr
That econolite doghouse is very simular to Ian's 12-8-8-8-8 Delaware Eagle flatbacks:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4006/4179867718_8476761fd3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/7nmV3N)Old DelDOT Style Eagle Signals (1) (https://flic.kr/p/7nmV3N) by Ian Ligget (https://www.flickr.com/photos/iccdude/), on Flickr
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7357/9473800573_dfac622d64_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/fraGRc)DSC_0078 (https://flic.kr/p/fraGRc) by Ian Ligget (https://www.flickr.com/photos/iccdude/), on Flickr
I just found two more really old doghouses, they're also eagle flatbacks, in Harrisburg. Unlike the setups in the eastern side of PA, these are hung on wires:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2596024,-76.8398728,3a,75y,126.74h,116.06t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s5pqBzXY9-PtpOP9KKYDbQg!2e0!5s20170701T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0
I also believe that Pittsburgh might have some econolite bull's eye doghouses (The square door versions), who knows, besides, old doghouses look more interesting when they're on monotubes, not wires.
Nice find, what I find unique about this intersection is the abandon signal head on the NW corner, and the Marbalite 8in green indications on the cross streets.
Here are some aluminum econolite diamondback doghouses from NJ (These are from the 1980s) (This is special because NJ no longer uses doghouses) Another one of Ian's pics:
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3040/2741365511_7c4e92aecb_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/5bfdsB)NJ Econolite Buttonbacks!!! (https://flic.kr/p/5bfdsB) by Ian Ligget (https://www.flickr.com/photos/iccdude/), on Flickr
Any guesses on how old the older doghouse clusters are? And what brand?
From LI, NY. The type of doghouse on the left cluster, up until NYSDOT started using FYA, is/was the standard left turn signal on LI. The other older type is rarely seen.
https://goo.gl/maps/YuvC9fN8dGo
Quote from: traffic light guy on February 27, 2018, 09:22:50 PM
Here are some aluminum econolite diamondback doghouses from NJ (These are from the 1980s) (This is special because NJ no longer uses doghouses)
Just a note: NJ does use doghouses, but very sparingly. One was just installed last year on US 30 near I-295. I point this intersection out because NJDOT managed to use traditional 3 section lights, the 4 section Jersey Special with bimodal green/yellow arrow, a 5 section tower, and a traditional doghouse all within the same intersection! https://goo.gl/maps/VjaZTaY6FUz
Another was installed on Fellowship Rd at the exit for a new Walmart. Not sure why, as they used a 4 section Jersey Special elsewhere in the overall project.
Some counties in NJ use them more than others as well.
(and yeah, I just made up the Jersey Special term. I know they're used elsewhere on occasion)
Quote from: RestrictOnTheHanger on February 27, 2018, 10:24:15 PM
Any guesses on how old the older doghouse clusters are? And what brand?
From LI, NY. The type of doghouse on the left cluster, up until NYSDOT started using FYA, is/was the standard left turn signal on LI. The other older type is rarely seen.
https://goo.gl/maps/YuvC9fN8dGo
Google Maps is a bit fuzzy, I'd say either TCT or ICC. These aren't too old these are most likely from the nineties.
Quote from: traffic light guy on February 27, 2018, 10:41:41 PM
Quote from: RestrictOnTheHanger on February 27, 2018, 10:24:15 PM
Any guesses on how old the older doghouse clusters are? And what brand?
From LI, NY. The type of doghouse on the left cluster, up until NYSDOT started using FYA, is/was the standard left turn signal on LI. The other older type is rarely seen.
https://goo.gl/maps/YuvC9fN8dGo
Google Maps is a bit fuzzy, I'd say either TCT or ICC. These aren't too old these are most likely from the nineties.
Yea, definitely ICC doghouse signals and seconded on the date they are likely from.
Philly, at one point had a motherload of old doghouses, they're now history. Now, Philly never has old doghouses, the only doghouses you'll ever see in Philly are Siemens, Peek, and McCain. Here's an old Philly picture from 1988, if you look closlely you can see what appears to might be an econolite bull's-eye square door doghouse. I believe these were installed around 1975. Now they're gone. If these were still up, I'd bet your ass I'd be down there within an hour to get pictures of it:
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2729/4498317927_863627ec9b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/7Rv4cD)19880622 12 SEPTA PCC Girard Ave. (https://flic.kr/p/7Rv4cD) by David Wilson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwilson1949/), on Flickr
Photo taken by Dave Wilson
How old would something like this be?
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8879856,-77.2816697,3a,37.5y,148.43h,93.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEcheAhAV7sEBdBU9oh7CTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
This is a doghouse signal using 8 in. balls and 12 in. arrows.
Quote from: steviep24 on February 28, 2018, 05:15:49 PM
How old would something like this be?
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8879856,-77.2816697,3a,37.5y,148.43h,93.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEcheAhAV7sEBdBU9oh7CTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
This is a doghouse signal using 8 in. balls and 12 in. arrows.
Not too old, the 8in sections are LFE poly heads, and the 12in are poly Traffic Control Technologies heads, only a handful of years old.
Quote from: steviep24 on February 28, 2018, 05:15:49 PM
How old would something like this be?
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8879856,-77.2816697,3a,37.5y,148.43h,93.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEcheAhAV7sEBdBU9oh7CTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
This is a doghouse signal using 8 in. balls and 12 in. arrows.
Not too old, mid-1990s at the earliest, 2002 at the latest. Not impressively old like my Lower Merion doghouses, or signal man's marbelites. When I mean old doghouses, I'm looking from something that's at least forty years old.
Quote from: traffic light guy on February 28, 2018, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: steviep24 on February 28, 2018, 05:15:49 PM
How old would something like this be?
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8879856,-77.2816697,3a,37.5y,148.43h,93.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEcheAhAV7sEBdBU9oh7CTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
This is a doghouse signal using 8 in. balls and 12 in. arrows.
I'm looking from something that's at least forty years old.
As said before, many people are learning, to an untrained eye, they do look old and warn out, because they are. The intersection does have a mix of manufactures.
Quote from: Signal man619 on February 28, 2018, 07:08:36 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on February 28, 2018, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: steviep24 on February 28, 2018, 05:15:49 PM
How old would something like this be?
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8879856,-77.2816697,3a,37.5y,148.43h,93.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEcheAhAV7sEBdBU9oh7CTQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
This is a doghouse signal using 8 in. balls and 12 in. arrows.
I'm looking from something that's at least forty years old.
As said before, many people are learning, to an untrained eye, they do look old and warn out, because they are. The intersection does have a mix of manufactures.
True True, the signals themselves look way older than they actually are. It's especially harder to tell when a setup has multiple brands. This is why I prefer monotubes over span wires.
Here's one, yeah there used to be some awesome kick-ass eagles hanging from the poles, now they're replaced by yours truly:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0033198,-75.2281303,3a,90y,359.15h,107.39t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s0njLl3SgNb-truLl0Zwimw!2e0!5s20071001T000000!7i3328!8i1664?hl=en&authuser=0
I don't understand why they replaced that, but they kept the doghouses in my pictures up. Move, the timeline to 2007 to see the old doghouse; On the split-end of the intersection you can see a right turn doghouse mounted on the side of the pole. Again, why'd they replace these, there was nothing wrong with the original setup.
The other old doghouse was not too far from this, but sadly it got replaced by my favorite thing in 2009:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0064383,-75.2324661,3a,37.5y,63.33h,97.45t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sPSw67A4Xr2mo06utXdTvOQ!2e0!5s20071001T000000!7i3328!8i1664?hl=en&authuser=
Something weird to note about this isntall, the mast-arm was never replaced, instead it was moved further along the intersection. Which is pretty dumb, PennDOT could've easily waited until they had the money for a pole-replacement. Instead those old double-arched mast-arms are teasing me, since they remind me so much of the old signals.
Based on the title of this thread, I inferred that it was about trafficlightguy's first doghouse for his pet! :-D :banghead:
Quote from: TheArkansasRoadgeek on March 01, 2018, 03:53:20 PM
Based on the title of this thread, I inferred that it was about trafficlightguy's first doghouse for his pet! :-D :banghead:
Yeah hahahahaha really funny, it's "doghouse" as is the name for a 5-light traffic light with two columns for yellow and green sections on either side. One colum for the green and yellow balls, and the other column for the yellow and green arrows. The term is "doghouse" because the traffic light's shape resembles a doghouse, due to the red being on top, in the middle.
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 04:16:06 PM
Quote from: TheArkansasRoadgeek on March 01, 2018, 03:53:20 PM
Based on the title of this thread, I inferred that it was about trafficlightguy's first doghouse for his pet! :-D :banghead:
Yeah hahahahaha really funny, it's "doghouse" as is the name for a 5-light traffic light with two columns for yellow and green sections on either side. One colum for the green and yellow balls, and the other column for the yellow and green arrows. The term is "doghouse" because the traffic light's shape resembles a doghouse, due to the red being on top, in the middle.
Sir, I am very aware of what a doghouse is relating to traffic control. Thanks for the definition! It was a joke...
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 04:16:06 PM
Quote from: TheArkansasRoadgeek on March 01, 2018, 03:53:20 PM
Based on the title of this thread, I inferred that it was about trafficlightguy's first doghouse for his pet! :-D :banghead:
Yeah hahahahaha really funny, it's "doghouse" as is the name for a 5-light traffic light with two columns for yellow and green sections on either side. One colum for the green and yellow balls, and the other column for the yellow and green arrows. The term is "doghouse" because the traffic light's shape resembles a doghouse, due to the red being on top, in the middle.
The first time I saw the term, I was amused by it as we have towers here in Illinois and Wisconsin. Michigan only recently started using them here and there, having previously used the flashing red ball for a permitted left turn, and now going whole-hog into the FYA. Locally, only Indiana and Ohio use them extensively, and Ohio more-so than Indiana (which seems to favor protected only lefts for some reason).
Quote from: Brandon on March 01, 2018, 04:23:14 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 04:16:06 PM
Quote from: TheArkansasRoadgeek on March 01, 2018, 03:53:20 PM
Based on the title of this thread, I inferred that it was about trafficlightguy's first doghouse for his pet! :-D :banghead:
Yeah hahahahaha really funny, it's "doghouse" as is the name for a 5-light traffic light with two columns for yellow and green sections on either side. One colum for the green and yellow balls, and the other column for the yellow and green arrows. The term is "doghouse" because the traffic light's shape resembles a doghouse, due to the red being on top, in the middle.
The first time I saw the term, I was amused by it as we have towers here in Illinois and Wisconsin. Michigan only recently started using them here and there, having previously used the flashing red ball for a permitted left turn, and now going whole-hog into the FYA. Locally, only Indiana and Ohio use them extensively, and Ohio more-so than Indiana (which seems to favor protected only lefts for some reason).
Fort Smith is more FYA and Protected Lefts.
Now, back to Google maps, I gotta find more old doghouses
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 08:16:13 PM
Now, back to Google maps, I gotta find more old doghouses
Why...?
Quote from: Signal man619 on March 01, 2018, 08:44:28 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 08:16:13 PM
Now, back to Google maps, I gotta find more old doghouses
Why...?
Who knows, maybe I can find a Crouse-Hinds Art Deco doghouse
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 11:58:24 PM
Quote from: Signal man619 on March 01, 2018, 08:44:28 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 08:16:13 PM
Now, back to Google maps, I gotta find more old doghouses
Why...?
Who knows, maybe I can find a Crouse-Hinds Art Deco doghouse
Closest I've seen pictures of was an inline-5 Crouse-hinds Art-deco signal, which is now gone (IIRC).
Quote from: freebrickproductions on March 03, 2018, 01:39:00 AM
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 11:58:24 PM
Quote from: Signal man619 on March 01, 2018, 08:44:28 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 08:16:13 PM
Now, back to Google maps, I gotta find more old doghouses
Why...?
Who knows, maybe I can find a Crouse-Hinds Art Deco doghouse
Closest I've seen pictures of was an inline-5 Crouse-hinds Art-deco signal, which is now gone (IIRC).
You know what would've been 10x better, a 12-inch Crouse-Hinds Type M doghouse, with all the lights left incandescent! Or, an old Eagle tower signal with 5 lights
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 04, 2018, 02:31:50 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on March 03, 2018, 01:39:00 AM
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 11:58:24 PM
Quote from: Signal man619 on March 01, 2018, 08:44:28 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 08:16:13 PM
Now, back to Google maps, I gotta find more old doghouses
Why...?
Who knows, maybe I can find a Crouse-Hinds Art Deco doghouse
Closest I've seen pictures of was an inline-5 Crouse-hinds Art-deco signal, which is now gone (IIRC).
You know what would've been 10x better, a 12-inch Crouse-Hinds Type M doghouse, with all the lights left incandescent! Or, an old Eagle tower signal with 5 lights
Eagle inline 5 sections are pretty common in the midwest.
Quote from: Signal man619 on March 04, 2018, 06:32:27 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 04, 2018, 02:31:50 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on March 03, 2018, 01:39:00 AM
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 11:58:24 PM
Quote from: Signal man619 on March 01, 2018, 08:44:28 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 08:16:13 PM
Now, back to Google maps, I gotta find more old doghouses
Why...?
Who knows, maybe I can find a Crouse-Hinds Art Deco doghouse
Closest I've seen pictures of was an inline-5 Crouse-hinds Art-deco signal, which is now gone (IIRC).
You know what would've been 10x better, a 12-inch Crouse-Hinds Type M doghouse, with all the lights left incandescent! Or, an old Eagle tower signal with 5 lights
Eagle inline 5 sections are pretty common in the midwest.
I meant a really old flatback tower. You might be thinking of Durasig or Alusigs towers
I'm not talking about Alusigs, Inline 5 section signal heads have been around for a while. Before the Alusig days. Most Midwestern states uses alot of Eagle, well probably because the company was from the Quad cities in Iowa and Illinois.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on March 03, 2018, 01:39:00 AM
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 11:58:24 PM
Quote from: Signal man619 on March 01, 2018, 08:44:28 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 08:16:13 PM
Now, back to Google maps, I gotta find more old doghouses
Why...?
Who knows, maybe I can find a Crouse-Hinds Art Deco doghouse
Closest I've seen pictures of was an inline-5 Crouse-hinds Art-deco signal, which is now gone (IIRC).
Signals Unlimited has photos
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 04, 2018, 07:27:22 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on March 03, 2018, 01:39:00 AM
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 11:58:24 PM
Quote from: Signal man619 on March 01, 2018, 08:44:28 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 01, 2018, 08:16:13 PM
Now, back to Google maps, I gotta find more old doghouses
Why...?
Who knows, maybe I can find a Crouse-Hinds Art Deco doghouse
Closest I've seen pictures of was an inline-5 Crouse-hinds Art-deco signal, which is now gone (IIRC).
Signals Unlimited has photos
it is still in service, I saw it a few months back.
There's a reason why I got so excited over those eagle flatback doghouses, it's probably because I'm so used to seeing boring modern McCains. I've said this numerous times, think I'm exaggerating: go on Google maps, drag your mouse, and do street view at any random point in the Philadelphia area, and tell me what you see.
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 04, 2018, 07:39:27 PM
There's a reason why I got so excited over those eagle flatback doghouses, it's probably because I'm so used to seeing boring modern McCains. I've said this numerous times, think I'm exaggerating: go on Google maps, drag your mouse, and do street view at any random point in the Philadelphia area, and tell me what you see.
Why?
Quote from: Signal man619 on March 04, 2018, 08:21:59 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 04, 2018, 07:39:27 PM
There's a reason why I got so excited over those eagle flatback doghouses, it's probably because I'm so used to seeing boring modern McCains. I've said this numerous times, think I'm exaggerating: go on Google maps, drag your mouse, and do street view at any random point in the Philadelphia area, and tell me what you see.
Why?
Cause why not!?!?!?!?
Quote from: Brandon on March 01, 2018, 04:23:14 PM
The first time I saw the term, I was amused by it as we have towers here in Illinois and Wisconsin. Michigan only recently started using them here and there, having previously used the flashing red ball for a permitted left turn, and now going whole-hog into the FYA. Locally, only Indiana and Ohio use them extensively, and Ohio more-so than Indiana (which seems to favor protected only lefts for some reason).
I was delighted to learn there was a term for it, as I grew up in Minnesota (where the five-section stack rules supreme) and moved to Iowa (which uses a mixture, depending on age, but mostly doghouses) only after I became an adult. I've seen a few rare Minnesota doghouses (like here (https://i.imgur.com/baM8Ijx.jpg)) pop up in the last ~five years, or so, but the overwhelming majority of new/upgraded installations use four-section FYAs.
Wait, hold up. I previewed my post, and I'm just now noticing that the picture I linked is of a five-section FYA signal. That makes it even more unusual than I thought. Huh.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on March 04, 2018, 11:36:54 PM
Wait, hold up. I previewed my post, and I'm just now noticing that the picture I linked is of a five-section FYA signal. That makes it even more unusual than I thought. Huh.
I'm also curious why it was decided to post a doghouse on a signal mast like that. Even in areas that predominantly use doghouses overhead, 5-section towers are posted on the signal mast (California, Colorado, Nevada(?)).
Spokane, WA is the only city that I know of which, currently and previously, posts doghouses both on the mast and mast arm: https://goo.gl/Jz4hEG (although, 5-section towers are used for right turn filters -- not sure why)
Quote from: jakeroot on March 05, 2018, 01:22:58 AM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on March 04, 2018, 11:36:54 PM
Wait, hold up. I previewed my post, and I'm just now noticing that the picture I linked is of a five-section FYA signal. That makes it even more unusual than I thought. Huh.
I'm also curious why it was decided to post a doghouse on a signal mast like that. Even in areas that predominantly use doghouses overhead, 5-section towers are posted on the signal mast (California, Colorado, Nevada(?)).
Spokane, WA is the only city that I know of which, currently and previously, posts doghouses both on the mast and mast arm: https://goo.gl/Jz4hEG (although, 5-section towers are used for right turn filters -- not sure why)
Utah doesn't put lights on the signal pole that often. But when it does, they're usually doghouses, for all applications (although pole-mounted left-turn signals are not commonly used). 5-section towers are very rare in Utah; I can only think of two intersections off the top of my head with them.
If you ask me, I like the practice of doghouses overhead and 5-section towers on the side. IMO, a 5-section tower on a mast arm looks a little strange especially when it's next to a regular 3-section signal, and doghouses mounted to a pole look large and bulky.
I've answered this question for you before, so I'll do it again.
Doghouses were approved by the MUTCD in 1971. The MUTCD does not just invent new standards for signals, nor is any municipality technically required to follow it (it is just a strongly encouraged set of guidelines). It only includes new revisions after they have become well practiced and thoroughly experimented with for many years prior. Those eagle flatbacks are not the earliest doghouse out there, they are at least 20 years late. You can be sure that the first doghouses and 5-section signals were definitely not 12" . The Econolite bullseye/long-groove doghouse (you've posted my picture of it before) is from the mid-1950s. As Cameron says, he had a Marbelite doghouse from the 1960s. There are still some Crouse-Hinds type M doghouses in use in Baltimore that date back to the early 1960s. Those inline 5-section type Ds in use here may not be original (they could have been put together from parts later on), but they would date back to the 1940s.
It's impossible to pinpoint the first doghouse ever made, because we don't have street view going back through all of time (though it would be really nice if we did). Standards were a lot more ambiguous back then, and the signal practices varied much more widely across the country than they do today, so we don't know who was the first to try them. But 12" flatbacks are definitely not the earliest. Yellow arrows were in use, albeit much less commonly, for several decades before the 1970s. By the 1970s, as you see with the prevalence of those doghouses in your area, they were already very common — so they had to have started gradually building popularity earlier on.
Here's an extremely rare early model of 8" yellow arrow lens I have in my collection (Kopp #4706):
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180306/dea026725ffb7b810552afe034511f72.jpg)
Quote from: Signal on March 06, 2018, 01:04:58 AM
I've answered this question for you before, so I'll do it again.
Doghouses were approved by the MUTCD in 1971. The MUTCD does not just invent new standards for signals, nor is any municipality technically required to follow it (it is just a strongly encouraged set of guidelines). It only includes new revisions after they have become well practiced and thoroughly experimented with for many years prior. Those eagle flatbacks are not the earliest doghouse out there, they are at least 20 years late. You can be sure that the first doghouses and 5-section signals were definitely not 12" . The Econolite bullseye/long-groove doghouse (you've posted my picture of it before) is from the mid-1950s. As Cameron says, he had a Marbelite doghouse from the 1960s. There are still some Crouse-Hinds type M doghouses in use in Baltimore that date back to the early 1960s. Those inline 5-section type Ds in use here may not be original (they could have been put together from parts later on), but they would date back to the 1940s.
It's impossible to pinpoint the first doghouse ever made, because we don't have street view going back through all of time (though it would be really nice if we did). Standards were a lot more ambiguous back then, and the signal practices varied much more widely across the country than they do today, so we don't know who was the first to try them. But 12" flatbacks are definitely not the earliest. Yellow arrows were in use, albeit much less commonly, for several decades before the 1970s. By the 1970s, as you see with the prevalence of those doghouses in your area, they were already very common — so they had to have started gradually building popularity earlier on.
Here's an extremely rare early model of 8" yellow arrow lens I have in my collection (Kopp #4706):
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180306/dea026725ffb7b810552afe034511f72.jpg)
Thanks for the info signal. If you're curious, the signals in my photos have permits dating to 1973, acording to an E-Mail that I had received from PennDOT. You are right about them not being the oldest doghouses. Around Philadelphia's region however, those 12" Flatbacks are the earliest among the other doghouses within the area. I'll pull up the e-mail, and show it to you soon.
How many times are you going to repeat this information? We know the signals date to the early 70s. Isn't this thread about finding the first doghouse? It's been established that this isn't it.
Quote from: jakeroot on March 06, 2018, 04:26:10 PM
How many times are you going to repeat this information? We know the signals date to the early 70s. Isn't this thread about finding the first doghouse? It's been established that this isn't it.
With those e-mails, I was providing an official source confirming a more specific date for those signals, that way there are no misconceptions. I don't want complaints that i'm pulling these dates outta my ass. At the time of the post, those were the oldest doghouses that I was aware of. Now I know that there's earlier equipment. Not to mention, like I've said several times, those are the oldest doghouses still serving within my area, not the entire country.
I need to find more old doghouses within the Philadelphia area (At least 40 years old)
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 27, 2018, 07:00:53 PM
I need to find more old doghouses within the Philadelphia area (At least 40 years old)
I think by now you've found them all.
Quote from: Signal man619 on March 27, 2018, 08:27:50 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on March 27, 2018, 07:00:53 PM
I need to find more old doghouses within the Philadelphia area (At least 40 years old)
I think by now you've found them all.
Unfortunately
There are three more really old doghouses in the Levittown section of Bristol Township, Just like Lower Merion, these are 12" Eagle flatbacks. As far as I know, these signals were installed at some point during the seventies:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/943/41012116025_11e8cf9e7d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25u6PfH)12-inch Eagle Flatback Doghouse traffic signal (https://flic.kr/p/25u6PfH) by thesignalman (https://www.flickr.com/photos/144426590@N04/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1788/29177608378_de91e20f35_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LsjSrq)Eagle Flatback Doghouse, Econolite Buttonback, and an 8" Eagle flatback (https://flic.kr/p/LsjSrq) by thesignalman (https://www.flickr.com/photos/144426590@N04/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/826/41012123815_d108625f30_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25u6Rz2)Eagle flatback doghouse, a TCT, an 8" eagle flatback, and an eaglelux (https://flic.kr/p/25u6Rz2) by thesignalman (https://www.flickr.com/photos/144426590@N04/), on Flickr
I like that doghouse.
Quote from: traffic light guy on May 05, 2018, 05:09:47 PM
Quote from: TheArkansasRoadgeek on May 05, 2018, 03:15:05 PM
I like that doghouse.
Which one, there are three of them
Oops. I was not clear - was I? I was referring to the bottom photo with the doghouse mounted atop the mast arm.
Sorry about that!
Quote from: TheArkansasRoadgeek on May 05, 2018, 05:17:05 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on May 05, 2018, 05:09:47 PM
Quote from: TheArkansasRoadgeek on May 05, 2018, 03:15:05 PM
I like that doghouse.
Which one, there are three of them
Oops. I was not clear - was I? I was referring to the bottom photo with the doghouse mounted atop the mast arm.
Sorry about that!
My favorite is the first one, with the weird smooshed bracket (The one mounted on the side)
Quote from: traffic light guy on May 05, 2018, 05:19:24 PM
Quote from: TheArkansasRoadgeek on May 05, 2018, 05:17:05 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on May 05, 2018, 05:09:47 PM
Quote from: TheArkansasRoadgeek on May 05, 2018, 03:15:05 PM
I like that doghouse.
Which one, there are three of them
Oops. I was not clear - was I? I was referring to the bottom photo with the doghouse mounted atop the mast arm.
Sorry about that!
My favorite is the first one, with the weird smooshed bracket (The one mounted on the side)
I am just assuming that yellow on blue street blades means county road or is that just by choice?
Quote from: TheArkansasRoadgeek on May 05, 2018, 05:44:18 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on May 05, 2018, 05:19:24 PM
Quote from: TheArkansasRoadgeek on May 05, 2018, 05:17:05 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on May 05, 2018, 05:09:47 PM
Quote from: TheArkansasRoadgeek on May 05, 2018, 03:15:05 PM
I like that doghouse.
Which one, there are three of them
Oops. I was not clear - was I? I was referring to the bottom photo with the doghouse mounted atop the mast arm.
Sorry about that!
My favorite is the first one, with the weird smooshed bracket (The one mounted on the side)
I am just assuming that yellow on blue street blades means county road or is that just by choice?
It's by choice, PennDOT uses different street blades for each Township. Although major cities like Philly have their own.
Quote from: traffic light guy on May 05, 2018, 06:56:42 PM
Quote from: TheArkansasRoadgeek on May 05, 2018, 05:44:18 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on May 05, 2018, 05:19:24 PM
Quote from: TheArkansasRoadgeek on May 05, 2018, 05:17:05 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on May 05, 2018, 05:09:47 PM
Quote from: TheArkansasRoadgeek on May 05, 2018, 03:15:05 PM
I like that doghouse.
Which one, there are three of them
Oops. I was not clear - was I? I was referring to the bottom photo with the doghouse mounted atop the mast arm.
Sorry about that!
My favorite is the first one, with the weird smooshed bracket (The one mounted on the side)
I am just assuming that yellow on blue street blades means county road or is that just by choice?
It's by choice, PennDOT uses different street blades for each Township. Although major cities like Philly have their own.
That's neat!
Interesting that the mounting bracket for the overhead doghouse is curved. The ones I'm familiar with all have straight corners.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 09, 2018, 12:50:00 PM
Interesting that the mounting bracket for the overhead doghouse is curved. The ones I'm familiar with all have straight corners.
PennDOT used curved brackets for their older signal installs.
Quote from: traffic light guy on May 09, 2018, 02:54:14 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 09, 2018, 12:50:00 PM
Interesting that the mounting bracket for the overhead doghouse is curved. The ones I'm familiar with all have straight corners.
PennDOT used curved brackets for their older signal installs.
That's very cool. The attention to detail for some of the older setups is remarkable. Of course, aesthetics is subjective, but I don't know of any agency that would use curved brackets just for fun these days. Maybe there was a reason for the current the brackets, but I can't think of one.
Quote from: Signal on March 06, 2018, 01:04:58 AM
I’ve answered this question for you before, so I’ll do it again.
Doghouses were approved by the MUTCD in 1971. The MUTCD does not just invent new standards for signals, nor is any municipality technically required to follow it (it is just a strongly encouraged set of guidelines). It only includes new revisions after they have become well practiced and thoroughly experimented with for many years prior. Those eagle flatbacks are not the earliest doghouse out there, they are at least 20 years late. You can be sure that the first doghouses and 5-section signals were definitely not 12”. The Econolite bullseye/long-groove doghouse (you’ve posted my picture of it before) is from the mid-1950s. As Cameron says, he had a Marbelite doghouse from the 1960s. There are still some Crouse-Hinds type M doghouses in use in Baltimore that date back to the early 1960s. Those inline 5-section type Ds in use here may not be original (they could have been put together from parts later on), but they would date back to the 1940s.
It’s impossible to pinpoint the first doghouse ever made, because we don’t have street view going back through all of time (though it would be really nice if we did). Standards were a lot more ambiguous back then, and the signal practices varied much more widely across the country than they do today, so we don’t know who was the first to try them. But 12” flatbacks are definitely not the earliest. Yellow arrows were in use, albeit much less commonly, for several decades before the 1970s. By the 1970s, as you see with the prevalence of those doghouses in your area, they were already very common – so they had to have started gradually building popularity earlier on.
Here’s an extremely rare early model of 8” yellow arrow lens I have in my collection (Kopp #4706):
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180306/dea026725ffb7b810552afe034511f72.jpg)
Here are a few things that I've gotta say:
*You're correct about the fact that the doghouse wasn't approved by the MUTCD until 1971.
*That long groove/bullseye doghouse, is not from the mid-1950s. That's excruciatingly early for a signal configuration that advanced. (The 1950s were a time where 4-Ways were still very common) The square-door bullseye didn't begin production until 1963, so that long-groove doghouse may have not been original. It may have been rearranged from different parts when the Bullseye section went it. That long groove doghouse has got to be from the early-60s at the very least.
*8-8-8-8-8 Marbelite Doghouses were most likely the earliest Doghouses that didn't derive from older parts
*Delaware and Pennsylvania did their Doghouses around the same time (Hence the fact that their earliest recorded Doghouses are eagle flatbacks) You've said that Eagle Flatback Doghouses are "Not particularly rare" and "they were already pretty common in the 1970s" I wouldn't say doghouses were already common in Pennsylvania during the seventies, as many of their setups, that derive from that era, lack Doghouses. You could be partially right, since they might have been more common in other states at the time. Plus, the US is a huge country, only God knows how many of those doghouses there are. Now, about those Flatback Doghouses not being too common in my area, well, this is because PA is very behind when it comes to their signals, it was one of the last states to use yellow traps and the red arrow. An example being the fact that Philadelphia didn't convert all their old signals to LEDs until 2011. The fact that Pennsylvania is a little bit behind when it comes to their signals, has to do with the fact that, there were most likely, 20 doghouses within the area in 1977. What if they've all been replaced, well, here's your answer; over a decade ago, before the upgrades, when I moved from New Jersey to PA, Eagle flatbacks were very common, all the setups I've seen thus far, lacked these "flatback era" doghouses. I didn't know that Eagle flatback doghouses existed until a few years ago, when I accidentally stumbled upon one in Lower Merion. The first official legal Doghouses were Deleware's 12-8-8-8 eagle flatbacks, which are slightly older than the Doghouses in my area, maybe by a year or two. (They were most likely the first to be installed after they were given the MUTCD's stamp of approval) As for Pennsylvania, I honestly don't think the state had Doghouses before those 12" Eagle flatbacks. Since you've also gotta keep in mind that doghouses were still relatively new during the 70s, so of course they're not gonna be very common. It's just like how yellow traps still aren't very common in certain parts of the U.S.
*I'll give you credit, you are more experienced than I am when it comes to traffic lights, so I could be wrong. But this is coming from my standpoint.
LG-M327
As of now, the two doghouses on Bristol Oxford Valley Road got replaced :no:
This is about as old as they get.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dsQ5vFQGuI
Quote from: steviep24 on July 04, 2018, 11:36:05 AM
This is about as old as they get.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dsQ5vFQGuI
I say you're correct. I can't find anything earlier than 8" Marbelite doghouses
What about the 5 section signals common on Long Island:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7464959,-73.1699227,3a,16.8y,170.16h,99.27t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1s_cJ4KnqCYSaWnhgCuigD7Q!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D_cJ4KnqCYSaWnhgCuigD7Q%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D187.6723%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7308545,-73.4593765,3a,26.9y,214.21h,102.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sA8IaS38xACs9PETHSugt4A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: Amtrakprod on July 14, 2018, 11:07:52 AM
What about the 5 section signals common on Long Island:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7464959,-73.1699227,3a,16.8y,170.16h,99.27t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1s_cJ4KnqCYSaWnhgCuigD7Q!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D_cJ4KnqCYSaWnhgCuigD7Q%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D187.6723%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7308545,-73.4593765,3a,26.9y,214.21h,102.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sA8IaS38xACs9PETHSugt4A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
The configuration screams "old", but the lamp size indicates that it's newer.
Didn't Long Island use 8-inch signals back in the day (if not, still)?
These signals are modern, they look like Econolites
LG-M327
Quote from: traffic light guy on July 14, 2018, 04:06:01 PM
These signals are modern, they look like Econolites
Which Econolite? They look like McCain's to me.
Quote from: jakeroot on July 14, 2018, 02:35:39 PM
Quote from: Amtrakprod on July 14, 2018, 11:07:52 AM
What about the 5 section signals common on Long Island:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7464959,-73.1699227,3a,16.8y,170.16h,99.27t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1s_cJ4KnqCYSaWnhgCuigD7Q!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D_cJ4KnqCYSaWnhgCuigD7Q%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D187.6723%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7308545,-73.4593765,3a,26.9y,214.21h,102.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sA8IaS38xACs9PETHSugt4A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
The configuration screams "old", but the lamp size indicates that it's newer. Didn't Long Island use 8-inch signals back in the day (if not, still)?
That doghouse configuration is still being installed on LI by state and local agencies. Its been the norm for decades. But FYA is slowly appearing there.
8 inch signals are being phased out there too, looks like this installation was put in around 5 years ago, just before 8 inch signals fell out of favor
Quote from: RestrictOnTheHanger on July 14, 2018, 11:45:37 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 14, 2018, 02:35:39 PM
Quote from: Amtrakprod on July 14, 2018, 11:07:52 AM
What about the 5 section signals common on Long Island:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7464959,-73.1699227,3a,16.8y,170.16h,99.27t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1s_cJ4KnqCYSaWnhgCuigD7Q!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D_cJ4KnqCYSaWnhgCuigD7Q%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D187.6723%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7308545,-73.4593765,3a,26.9y,214.21h,102.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sA8IaS38xACs9PETHSugt4A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
The configuration screams "old", but the lamp size indicates that it's newer. Didn't Long Island use 8-inch signals back in the day (if not, still)?
That doghouse configuration is still being installed on LI by state and local agencies. Its been the norm for decades. But FYA is slowly appearing there.
8 inch signals are being phased out there too, looks like this installation was put in around 5 years ago, just before 8 inch signals fell out of favor
I've always preferred that "side by side" 5-section layout, versus a doghouse (at least when used overhead). It bothers me when the distance between the signal orbs is different depending on the state of the signal, so I prefer for the RYG orbs to all be in a line. I see that style in Colorado too, though it looks more professional with backplates and a normal perpendicular mast arm.
Quote from: jakeroot on July 14, 2018, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on July 14, 2018, 04:06:01 PM
These signals are modern, they look like Econolites
Which Econolite? They look like McCain's to me.
It's the current style that Econolite does for their aluminum signals. Oftenly called the "McCain style". One easy way to tell without looking at the logo is that a McCain has the hinges and latches extend past the door, while an Econolite has them within the door like a Durasig.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on July 15, 2018, 03:47:22 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 14, 2018, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on July 14, 2018, 04:06:01 PM
These signals are modern, they look like Econolites
Which Econolite? They look like McCain's to me.
It's the current style that Econolite does for their aluminum signals. Oftenly called the "McCain style". One easy way to tell without looking at the logo is that a McCain has the hinges and latches extend past the door, while an Econolite has them within the door like a Durasig.
Never bothered to think of the differences being in the hinge design. I'll have to keep an eye out for that in the future. Maybe more Econolite's around here than I realized.
Come to think of it, the Econolite looks to have a slightly narrower backside. Or am I crazy?
Quote from: jakeroot on July 15, 2018, 03:48:41 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on July 15, 2018, 03:47:22 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 14, 2018, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on July 14, 2018, 04:06:01 PM
These signals are modern, they look like Econolites
Which Econolite? They look like McCain's to me.
It's the current style that Econolite does for their aluminum signals. Oftenly called the "McCain style". One easy way to tell without looking at the logo is that a McCain has the hinges and latches extend past the door, while an Econolite has them within the door like a Durasig.
Never bothered to think of the differences being in the hinge design. I'll have to keep an eye out for that in the future. Maybe more Econolite's around here than I realized.
Come to think of it, the Econolite looks to have a slightly narrower backside. Or am I crazy?
I'd have to check, though I wouldn't be surprised.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on July 16, 2018, 08:44:33 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 15, 2018, 03:48:41 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on July 15, 2018, 03:47:22 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 14, 2018, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on July 14, 2018, 04:06:01 PM
These signals are modern, they look like Econolites
Which Econolite? They look like McCain's to me.
It's the current style that Econolite does for their aluminum signals. Oftenly called the "McCain style". One easy way to tell without looking at the logo is that a McCain has the hinges and latches extend past the door, while an Econolite has them within the door like a Durasig.
Never bothered to think of the differences being in the hinge design. I'll have to keep an eye out for that in the future. Maybe more Econolite's around here than I realized.
Come to think of it, the Econolite looks to have a slightly narrower backside. Or am I crazy?
I'd have to check, though I wouldn't be surprised.
Speaking of doghouses, I know that there's a Marbelite doghouse in your area, which was installed around the same time as my Eagle flatback doghouses. Do you know where it is, I wonder if it's still in service. Two of the five Eagle flatback doghouses already got taken out of service, and another one is on Pennsylvania's replacement grant list. I'm glad God allowed me to document them before they were replaced.
freebrickproductions gave me the link to the doghouse via flickr, something to note about the doghouse is that it's extremely wide, not sure if it's older or newer than PA's eagle flatback doghouses. This is at Tuscaloosa, AL:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2062092,-87.5254173,3a,75y,320.06h,86.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sm1IHro8gW7Akx9atrUVs9g!2e0!5s20071101T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: traffic light guy on July 17, 2018, 12:10:26 AM
freebrickproductions gave me the link to the doghouse via flickr, something to note about the doghouse is that it's extremely wide, not sure if it's older or newer than PA's eagle flatback doghouses. This is at Tuscaloosa, AL:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2062092,-87.5254173,3a,75y,320.06h,86.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sm1IHro8gW7Akx9atrUVs9g!2e0!5s20071101T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Cute! It's trying to intimidate us.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on July 17, 2018, 12:52:59 AM
Quote from: traffic light guy on July 17, 2018, 12:10:26 AM
freebrickproductions gave me the link to the doghouse via flickr, something to note about the doghouse is that it's extremely wide, not sure if it's older or newer than PA's eagle flatback doghouses. This is at Tuscaloosa, AL:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2062092,-87.5254173,3a,75y,320.06h,86.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sm1IHro8gW7Akx9atrUVs9g!2e0!5s20071101T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Cute! It's trying to intimidate us.
It could be in a horror film called "The Doghouse Signal"
Tuscaloosa isn't really in my "immediate area"...
Here is an Eagle flatback doghouse that was taken by Steve, this was in Municie, Indiana. These were installed around the same time as my doghouses:
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3211/2363016514_ccd74031e8.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/4AP5u3)Muncie traffic signals (https://flic.kr/p/4AP5u3) by Steve (https://www.flickr.com/photos/mycrazyhobby/), on Flickr
I have a very keen interest in old doghouses, unfortunately, these were replaced over a decade ago, they were most likely installed in the early-to-mid 70s. As I said, this isn't the first doghouse ever, but it's giving us more clues to the history of doghouses
Yuck, google maps has images of the trash that replaced the doghouses on Bristol Oxford Valley Road:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1187638,-74.8643387,3a,15y,98.68h,93.98t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sbpjQjPiMzmXeiFtIPAhZmw!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 08, 2018, 07:03:19 PM
Yuck, google maps has images of the trash that replaced the doghouses on Bristol Oxford Valley Road:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1187638,-74.8643387,3a,15y,98.68h,93.98t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sbpjQjPiMzmXeiFtIPAhZmw!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0
I have no opinion on the age of the old signals, but the signal placement was better before.
Quote from: jakeroot on October 08, 2018, 08:33:24 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 08, 2018, 07:03:19 PM
Yuck, google maps has images of the trash that replaced the doghouses on Bristol Oxford Valley Road:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1187638,-74.8643387,3a,15y,98.68h,93.98t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sbpjQjPiMzmXeiFtIPAhZmw!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0
I have no opinion on the age of the old signals, but the signal placement was better before.
Yeah, the original placement was better, the new signals were installed while the old ones were still up, so they had to squeeze them into the intersection somehow.
I just found another old doghouse, this is in Ohio. And holy shit, this is a good find:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0607113,-80.6308504,3a,30.4y,299.15h,104.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYxLHlBo5s8yyhQIE6VD0Ig!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Sorry that I can't find any other old doghouses besides eagle flatbacks, but I think the doghouse on the opposite end of the intersection may be a Crouse-hinds type R
Well, I'll give you credit. That whole setup looks fuckin' ancient. The green is barely visible, and the paint is wearing off like no other.
Quote from: jakeroot on October 10, 2018, 01:37:05 AM
Well, I'll give you credit. That whole setup looks fuckin' ancient. The green is barely visible, and the paint is wearing off like no other.
Both Doghouses are ancient. One is an Eagle flatback and the one with the paint chips might be a.....crouse hinds? Ironically, the Eagle flatback is the older doghouse
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 09, 2018, 08:17:20 PM
I just found another old doghouse, this is in Ohio. And holy shit, this is a good find:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0607113,-80.6308504,3a,30.4y,299.15h,104.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYxLHlBo5s8yyhQIE6VD0Ig!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Sorry that I can't find any other old doghouses besides eagle flatbacks, but I think the doghouse on the opposite end of the intersection may be a Crouse-hinds type R
Are those doghouses used for split phasing? Not sure how else a doghouse in each direction without turning lanes could be used.
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 01:40:34 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 09, 2018, 08:17:20 PM
I just found another old doghouse, this is in Ohio. And holy shit, this is a good find:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0607113,-80.6308504,3a,30.4y,299.15h,104.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYxLHlBo5s8yyhQIE6VD0Ig!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Sorry that I can't find any other old doghouses besides eagle flatbacks, but I think the doghouse on the opposite end of the intersection may be a Crouse-hinds type R
Are those doghouses used for split phasing? Not sure how else a doghouse in each direction without turning lanes could be used.
Good observation. I think that's exactly the case. 4-section tower might not have allowed enough clearance, so a doghouse was used instead.
Quote from: jakeroot on October 10, 2018, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 01:40:34 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 09, 2018, 08:17:20 PM
I just found another old doghouse, this is in Ohio. And holy shit, this is a good find:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0607113,-80.6308504,3a,30.4y,299.15h,104.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYxLHlBo5s8yyhQIE6VD0Ig!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Sorry that I can't find any other old doghouses besides eagle flatbacks, but I think the doghouse on the opposite end of the intersection may be a Crouse-hinds type R
Are those doghouses used for split phasing? Not sure how else a doghouse in each direction without turning lanes could be used.
Good observation. I think that's exactly the case. 4-section tower might not have allowed enough clearance, so a doghouse was used instead.
Were four-section towers with the green arrow on the bottom (or the upside-down T signals) used back then?
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 03:37:56 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 10, 2018, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 01:40:34 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 09, 2018, 08:17:20 PM
I just found another old doghouse, this is in Ohio. And holy shit, this is a good find:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0607113,-80.6308504,3a,30.4y,299.15h,104.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYxLHlBo5s8yyhQIE6VD0Ig!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Sorry that I can't find any other old doghouses besides eagle flatbacks, but I think the doghouse on the opposite end of the intersection may be a Crouse-hinds type R
Are those doghouses used for split phasing? Not sure how else a doghouse in each direction without turning lanes could be used.
Good observation. I think that's exactly the case. 4-section tower might not have allowed enough clearance, so a doghouse was used instead.
Were four-section towers with the green arrow on the bottom (or the upside-down T signals) used back then?
No, this paticular intersection doesn't have split phasing, still that setup is pretty impressive. I don't have a weird obsession with Eagle flatback doghouses, although they're not the first doghouses ever, I find them fascinating because when it comes to their age, they're so far removed from other doghouses! Same goes for other old doghouses. My next mission is to find those so-called Crouse-Hinds Type M doghouses that signals unlimited told me about.
Yes the t-bone signals did exsist back then:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1948/45139458492_f9d298babb_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bLPwnJ)T-bone Eagle Signal (https://flic.kr/p/2bLPwnJ) by thesignalman (https://www.flickr.com/photos/144426590@N04/), on Flickr
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 10, 2018, 04:08:51 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 03:37:56 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 10, 2018, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 01:40:34 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 09, 2018, 08:17:20 PM
I just found another old doghouse, this is in Ohio. And holy shit, this is a good find:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0607113,-80.6308504,3a,30.4y,299.15h,104.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYxLHlBo5s8yyhQIE6VD0Ig!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Sorry that I can't find any other old doghouses besides eagle flatbacks, but I think the doghouse on the opposite end of the intersection may be a Crouse-hinds type R
Are those doghouses used for split phasing? Not sure how else a doghouse in each direction without turning lanes could be used.
Good observation. I think that's exactly the case. 4-section tower might not have allowed enough clearance, so a doghouse was used instead.
Were four-section towers with the green arrow on the bottom (or the upside-down T signals) used back then?
No, this paticular intersection doesn't have split phasing, still that setup is pretty impressive.
How is it set up, then?
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 04:11:37 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 10, 2018, 04:08:51 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 03:37:56 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 10, 2018, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 01:40:34 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 09, 2018, 08:17:20 PM
I just found another old doghouse, this is in Ohio. And holy shit, this is a good find:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0607113,-80.6308504,3a,30.4y,299.15h,104.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYxLHlBo5s8yyhQIE6VD0Ig!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Sorry that I can't find any other old doghouses besides eagle flatbacks, but I think the doghouse on the opposite end of the intersection may be a Crouse-hinds type R
Are those doghouses used for split phasing? Not sure how else a doghouse in each direction without turning lanes could be used.
Good observation. I think that's exactly the case. 4-section tower might not have allowed enough clearance, so a doghouse was used instead.
Were four-section towers with the green arrow on the bottom (or the upside-down T signals) used back then?
No, this paticular intersection doesn't have split phasing, still that setup is pretty impressive.
How is it set up, then?
Most signal geeks use the phrase "set up", as a nickname for a signalized intersection
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 10, 2018, 04:15:27 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 04:11:37 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 10, 2018, 04:08:51 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 03:37:56 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 10, 2018, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 01:40:34 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 09, 2018, 08:17:20 PM
I just found another old doghouse, this is in Ohio. And holy shit, this is a good find:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0607113,-80.6308504,3a,30.4y,299.15h,104.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYxLHlBo5s8yyhQIE6VD0Ig!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Sorry that I can't find any other old doghouses besides eagle flatbacks, but I think the doghouse on the opposite end of the intersection may be a Crouse-hinds type R
Are those doghouses used for split phasing? Not sure how else a doghouse in each direction without turning lanes could be used.
Good observation. I think that's exactly the case. 4-section tower might not have allowed enough clearance, so a doghouse was used instead.
Were four-section towers with the green arrow on the bottom (or the upside-down T signals) used back then?
No, this paticular intersection doesn't have split phasing, still that setup is pretty impressive.
How is it set up, then?
Most signal geeks use the phrase "set up", as a nickname for a signalized intersection
No, he's curious to know how the signal timing works, if it's not split-phased. I can't find any street view where both sides have green orbs simultaneously. If the arrows came on separately, that would induce yellow trap. Doesn't mean that it couldn't be the case, but why no Street View images of simultaneous green orbs?
Quote from: jakeroot on October 10, 2018, 06:47:51 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 10, 2018, 04:15:27 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 04:11:37 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 10, 2018, 04:08:51 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 03:37:56 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 10, 2018, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 01:40:34 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 09, 2018, 08:17:20 PM
I just found another old doghouse, this is in Ohio. And holy shit, this is a good find:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0607113,-80.6308504,3a,30.4y,299.15h,104.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYxLHlBo5s8yyhQIE6VD0Ig!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Sorry that I can't find any other old doghouses besides eagle flatbacks, but I think the doghouse on the opposite end of the intersection may be a Crouse-hinds type R
Are those doghouses used for split phasing? Not sure how else a doghouse in each direction without turning lanes could be used.
Good observation. I think that's exactly the case. 4-section tower might not have allowed enough clearance, so a doghouse was used instead.
Were four-section towers with the green arrow on the bottom (or the upside-down T signals) used back then?
No, this paticular intersection doesn't have split phasing, still that setup is pretty impressive.
How is it set up, then?
Most signal geeks use the phrase "set up", as a nickname for a signalized intersection
No, he's curious to know how the signal timing works, if it's not split-phased. I can't find any street view where both sides have green orbs simultaneously. If the arrows came on separately, that would induce yellow trap. Doesn't mean that it couldn't be the case, but why no Street View images of simultaneous green orbs?
Not sure, most intersections are wired to have split phasing
LG-M327
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 11, 2018, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 10, 2018, 06:47:51 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 10, 2018, 04:15:27 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 04:11:37 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 10, 2018, 04:08:51 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 03:37:56 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 10, 2018, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 10, 2018, 01:40:34 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 09, 2018, 08:17:20 PM
I just found another old doghouse, this is in Ohio. And holy shit, this is a good find:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0607113,-80.6308504,3a,30.4y,299.15h,104.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYxLHlBo5s8yyhQIE6VD0Ig!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Sorry that I can't find any other old doghouses besides eagle flatbacks, but I think the doghouse on the opposite end of the intersection may be a Crouse-hinds type R
Are those doghouses used for split phasing? Not sure how else a doghouse in each direction without turning lanes could be used.
Good observation. I think that's exactly the case. 4-section tower might not have allowed enough clearance, so a doghouse was used instead.
Were four-section towers with the green arrow on the bottom (or the upside-down T signals) used back then?
No, this paticular intersection doesn't have split phasing, still that setup is pretty impressive.
How is it set up, then?
Most signal geeks use the phrase "set up", as a nickname for a signalized intersection
No, he's curious to know how the signal timing works, if it's not split-phased. I can't find any street view where both sides have green orbs simultaneously. If the arrows came on separately, that would induce yellow trap. Doesn't mean that it couldn't be the case, but why no Street View images of simultaneous green orbs?
Not sure, most intersections are wired to have split phasing
LG-M327
I guess it's ultimately how the wiring was done, and what the controller has the capability of doing. Modern controllers are just like any other computer system. Sure, you can put a controller in that's designed to handle the most complex signal configurations at every intersection, but why spend the money when it's unlikely it'll ever be needed? If in the rare instance they'll change the phasing at a signal, they can install a new controller. But also in most cases, changing the phasing also changes the infrastructure around the light (additional lanes, changing signal heads), so the controller and/or controller box will be moved or modified anyway.
Here's a pretty old one in Denver, at the intersection of Louisiana & Downing in the Wash Park neighborhood:
https://goo.gl/maps/mQhjZhHQgsH2
Quote from: Mark68 on October 11, 2018, 01:23:59 PM
Here's a pretty old one in Denver, at the intersection of Louisiana & Downing in the Wash Park neighborhood:
https://goo.gl/maps/mQhjZhHQgsH2
Looks like the arrow sections are Bullseyes
LG-M327
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 11, 2018, 02:33:20 PM
Quote from: Mark68 on October 11, 2018, 01:23:59 PM
Here's a pretty old one in Denver, at the intersection of Louisiana & Downing in the Wash Park neighborhood:
https://goo.gl/maps/mQhjZhHQgsH2
Looks like the arrow sections are Bullseyes
And they look to be in pretty good shape, too. The arrows might be newer...up close shot: https://goo.gl/v13Xnp -- note the use of arrows overhead but not on the side. That may mean they were a later addition.
Quote from: jakeroot on October 11, 2018, 04:32:54 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 11, 2018, 02:33:20 PM
Quote from: Mark68 on October 11, 2018, 01:23:59 PM
Here's a pretty old one in Denver, at the intersection of Louisiana & Downing in the Wash Park neighborhood:
https://goo.gl/maps/mQhjZhHQgsH2
Looks like the arrow sections are Bullseyes
And they look to be in pretty good shape, too. The arrows might be newer...up close shot: https://goo.gl/v13Xnp -- note the use of arrows overhead but not on the side. That may mean they were a later addition.
The arrows were made by the "Bullseye", and the actual signal heads are Marbelites. The Bullseyes ceased production shorty before 1980. So I think the arrows are just as old as the rest of the intersection.
LG-M327
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 11, 2018, 04:35:08 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 11, 2018, 04:32:54 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 11, 2018, 02:33:20 PM
Quote from: Mark68 on October 11, 2018, 01:23:59 PM
Here's a pretty old one in Denver, at the intersection of Louisiana & Downing in the Wash Park neighborhood:
https://goo.gl/maps/mQhjZhHQgsH2
Looks like the arrow sections are Bullseyes
And they look to be in pretty good shape, too. The arrows might be newer...up close shot: https://goo.gl/v13Xnp -- note the use of arrows overhead but not on the side. That may mean they were a later addition.
The arrows were made by the "Bullseye", and the actual signal heads are Marbelites. The Bullseyes ceased production shorty before 1980. So I think the arrows are just as old as the rest of the intersection.
I see. You're probably right. It's possible the arrows were leftover and not used until later, but that's not very likely.
I've noticed something odd about the old doghouses in my area, they have a bizarre sequence in which the green arrow is lit during the transition from the yellow orb to red. Not sure if these signals still had this funky sequence back when they were being operated mechanically. I've never seen this on a modern doghouse, only on these old Eagles:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1911/45166121141_d55fbacfb2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bPbbfz)Eagle flatback Doghouse (incandescent yellow) (https://flic.kr/p/2bPbbfz) by thesignalman (https://www.flickr.com/photos/144426590@N04/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/943/41039426125_f1310409f8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25wvMAv)Eagle flatback doghouse (https://flic.kr/p/25wvMAv) by thesignalman (https://www.flickr.com/photos/144426590@N04/), on Flickr
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 14, 2018, 02:18:11 PM
I've noticed something odd about the old doghouses in my area, they have a bizarre sequence in which the green arrow is lit during the transition from the yellow orb to red. Not sure if these signals still had this funky sequence back when they were being operated mechanically. I've never seen this on a modern doghouse, only on these old Eagles:
Nothing innately bizarre about that. I'd guess the signal is running a right turn overlap between the adjacent through green phase to the complimentary left turn on the side road. (In most similar installations in Nevada, the green arrow wouldn't be on during the adjacent through phase–but I could see the green arrow being used if there is not a walk activation during the cycle or peds were prohibited.)
I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.
Quote from: jakeroot on October 14, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.
In my opinion, the arrows should only be lit when the intersection is in an all red interval.
LG-M327
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 15, 2018, 11:45:04 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 14, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.
In my opinion, the arrows should only be lit when the intersection is in an all red interval.
I understand the right arrow coming on after a few moments, as that's usually when the complementary/parallel left turn has their green arrow ("filter signal") but definitely not before that. I understand the original idea: traffic had a green light, but they'd have to momentarily stop before the green arrow would come on...may as well leave the arrow on during that gaps. But that doesn't work with permissive left turns.
NY has a lot of yellow ball green right arrow signals like that still, but they are slowly disappearing
Quote from: jakeroot on October 14, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.
That phasing doesn't work. That kind of phasing used to be common with Illinois signals. Eventually they caught on to the problem and starting removing the arrows (by replacing the five section with a three section) until they had the technology and/or the smarts to not light the arrow during the yellow cycle. That phasing now only exists at older installations or protected left only installations.
Quote from: jakeroot on October 14, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.
Thank you for bringing that up because that makes me completely livid. It happens at this intersection (https://goo.gl/maps/4vweLLFBREk) in IL all the time and I have to make a note not to turn right until the light is fully red, since oncoming cars turning left will be escaping the box. In fact, GSV shows the right arrow as the yellow ball is visible!! You can see the bullshit in action (https://goo.gl/maps/4vweLLFBREk)!! Infuriating! :pan: :pan: :pan: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :thumbdown:
Quote from: Super Mateo on October 16, 2018, 09:20:52 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 14, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.
That phasing doesn't work. That kind of phasing used to be common with Illinois signals. Eventually they caught on to the problem and starting removing the arrows (by replacing the five section with a three section) until they had the technology and/or the smarts to not light the arrow during the yellow cycle. That phasing now only exists at older installations or protected left only installations.
I think it is kinda dangerous to have the arrows lit alongside the yellow orb. I think it's a very bizzare signal sequence. That's why I don't see it on modern Doghouses
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 16, 2018, 09:54:38 PM
Quote from: Super Mateo on October 16, 2018, 09:20:52 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 14, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.
That phasing doesn't work. That kind of phasing used to be common with Illinois signals. Eventually they caught on to the problem and starting removing the arrows (by replacing the five section with a three section) until they had the technology and/or the smarts to not light the arrow during the yellow cycle. That phasing now only exists at older installations or protected left only installations.
I think it is kinda dangerous to have the arrows lit alongside the yellow orb. I think it's a very bizzare signal sequence. That's why I don't see it on modern Doghouses
It is only dangerous where there is a conflict. If the next signal phase is a leading protected left turn for cross traffic, green arrow + yellow would be OK so long as there is no pedestrian conflict or conflict with opposing left turns. In most cases, if pedestrians could cross there, they face a solid hand (DON'T WALK) when yellow comes on, so that would not normally be the problem. Jakeroot properly identified the conflict with opposing permissive left turns that could exist. But in situations where there is no conflict (opposing left prohibited, opposing left restricted to protected only, or no opposing left [T-intersections]), this is actually helpful to keep traffic flowing.
There is an example near me that does this. T-intersection, so no opposing left turn. Also, pedestrians are prohibitied from making this crossing. FWIW, the green arrow also comes on during the green orb phase as well.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0471586,-77.048495,3a,75y,5.11h,87.98t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sjaD908dt8uz0G_gPEl3cgg!2e0!5s20151001T000000!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: roadfro on October 14, 2018, 03:14:08 PM
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 14, 2018, 02:18:11 PM
I've noticed something odd about the old doghouses in my area, they have a bizarre sequence in which the green arrow is lit during the transition from the yellow orb to red. Not sure if these signals still had this funky sequence back when they were being operated mechanically. I've never seen this on a modern doghouse, only on these old Eagles:
Nothing innately bizarre about that. I'd guess the signal is running a right turn overlap between the adjacent through green phase to the complimentary left turn on the side road. (In most similar installations in Nevada, the green arrow wouldn't be on during the adjacent through phase–but I could see the green arrow being used if there is not a walk activation during the cycle or peds were prohibited.)
Quote from: jakeroot on October 14, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.
Not sure if this was directed at me or not, but I assume it was (since it was right after my post).
In my phasing above, I probably wasn't abundantly clear with what I was describing. Let's use the westbound approach of Flamingo Road at Las Vegas Blvd (street view) (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1148055,-115.1725158,3a,75y,273.76h,88.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scWOANQATlt7FHVZgYLMrZg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) as an example. Note that this is a protected/permitted right turn, and that the intersection has protected left turns on all approaches with U-turns are prohibited (both are essential to the premise).
The street view shows westbound Flamingo through traffic having a green, but let's say it was also was showing a green right arrow simultaneously (which is completely feasible here since there is no pedestrian crossing at street level). Pretend the next movement phase is the southbound left turn–this would be the "complementary" left turn to the westbound right (since there's no U-turn conflict).
If the westbound right turn arrows were programmed with an overlap, this could lead to a situation in which the westbound yellow orb and green right arrow can display at the same time–westbound through phase is ending and southbound left begins, but there is no need to terminate the westbound right turn during this transition.
Quote from: Super Mateo on October 16, 2018, 09:20:52 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 14, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
I don't understand that phasing. How is traffic turning left going to clear if the oncoming right turn has a green arrow? They should stop to allow them to finish turning.
That phasing doesn't work. That kind of phasing used to be common with Illinois signals. Eventually they caught on to the problem and starting removing the arrows (by replacing the five section with a three section) until they had the technology and/or the smarts to not light the arrow during the yellow cycle. That phasing now only exists at older installations or protected left only installations.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on October 16, 2018, 09:53:54 PM
Thank you for bringing that up because that makes me completely livid. It happens at this intersection (https://goo.gl/maps/4vweLLFBREk) in IL all the time and I have to make a note not to turn right until the light is fully red, since oncoming cars turning left will be escaping the box. In fact, GSV shows the right arrow as the yellow ball is visible!! You can see the bullshit in action (https://goo.gl/maps/4vweLLFBREk)!! Infuriating!
Quote from: traffic light guy on October 16, 2018, 09:54:38 PM
I think it is kinda dangerous to have the arrows lit alongside the yellow orb. I think it's a very bizzare signal sequence. That's why I don't see it on modern Doghouses
Definitely a dangerous situation with permissive lefts. In Paul's GSV link, the oncoming car (Honda Civic) is not turning during the end of the cycle, which is very unusual in IL. Perhaps they recognize the awkward phasing, too.
Quote from: mrsman on October 19, 2018, 01:37:32 PM
It is only dangerous where there is a conflict. If the next signal phase is a leading protected left turn for cross traffic, green arrow + yellow would be OK so long as there is no pedestrian conflict or conflict with opposing left turns. In most cases, if pedestrians could cross there, they face a solid hand (DON'T WALK) when yellow comes on, so that would not normally be the problem. Jakeroot properly identified the conflict with opposing permissive left turns that could exist. But in situations where there is no conflict (opposing left prohibited, opposing left restricted to protected only, or no opposing left [T-intersections]), this is actually helpful to keep traffic flowing.
I have no problems with right-turn overlap phasing at protected lefts (with prohibited U-turns), or at intersections without any other conflict. Hell, I'd rather see a permanently-burning green arrow (like here (https://goo.gl/rhBQrD) -- protected-only lefts) at all installations with protected lefts, when there isn't any other traffic that would interfere. If the ped-signal came up, it would turn off. And any time the oncoming left or traffic from left went, it would turn off. But otherwise, no reason for deactivation. There's no other conflict.
Quote from: roadfro on October 19, 2018, 08:59:18 PM
If the westbound right turn arrows were programmed with an overlap, this could lead to a situation in which the westbound yellow orb and green right arrow can display at the same time–westbound through phase is ending and southbound left begins, but there is no need to terminate the westbound right turn during this transition.
Makes total sense. See my above reply to
mrsman.
I think I've found the suposed Crouse-hinds type M doghouses that signals unlimted told me about. Here it is:
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/busman_49/media/bWVkaWFJZDoyMzgyMTQyMg==/?ref=1
Here it is on google maps:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/E+N+Broadway+%26+Silver+Dr,+Columbus,+OH+43224/@40.0310793,-82.9955117,3a,15y,253.78h,104.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSmTGhTEG74ayOLR-R6x27g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x88388c0a2977aeb9:0x4ea2e22dac465885!8m2!3d40.0310412!4d-82.9955374
I've finally found a doghouse older than the 12" Eagle flatbacks in my area! This thing isn't even twelve inch.
Here's another old doghouse:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/W+Main+St+%26+N+Cleveland+Ave,+Westerville,+OH+43081/@40.1247289,-82.9481386,3a,75y,265.02h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siRIE33LlXZFUaT0OY5CL7w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x8838f51d3271a841:0x21cefd51d7f37f16!8m2!3d40.1247667!4d-82.9481392
Another Eagle Flatback Doghouse found in Youngstown Ohio:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/3593+Kirk+Rd,+Youngstown,+OH+44511/@41.0685653,-80.7108527,3a,30y,182.6h,103.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfEQzaYlXPDmorbX29LJDeQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x8833e4ad7cbf5755:0x18f366868212173c!8m2!3d41.0682325!4d-80.7106348
This is the oldest I could ever find. I didn't take this photo:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48390239352_ad4ebfcdca_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gJ5CgA)8 inch Eagle Flatback Doghouse Traffic signal (https://flic.kr/p/2gJ5CgA) by bastian.steele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/146747096@N04/), on Flickr
Here's another:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48284428527_bd707e3478_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gyJjp2)Eagle Flatback Doghouse! (https://flic.kr/p/2gyJjp2) by bastian.steele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/146747096@N04/), on Flickr