First doghouse

[traffic light guy]

There's a reason why I got so excited over those eagle flatback doghouses, it's probably because I'm so used to seeing boring modern McCains. I've said this numerous times, think I'm exaggerating: go on Google maps, drag your mouse, and do street view at any random point in the Philadelphia area, and tell me what you see.

Why?

Cause why not!?!?!?!?

[MNHighwayMan]

The first time I saw the term, I was amused by it as we have towers here in Illinois and Wisconsin.  Michigan only recently started using them here and there, having previously used the flashing red ball for a permitted left turn, and now going whole-hog into the FYA.  Locally, only Indiana and Ohio use them extensively, and Ohio more-so than Indiana (which seems to favor protected only lefts for some reason).

I was delighted to learn there was a term for it, as I grew up in Minnesota (where the five-section stack rules supreme) and moved to Iowa (which uses a mixture, depending on age, but mostly doghouses) only after I became an adult. I've seen a few rare Minnesota doghouses (like here) pop up in the last ~five years, or so, but the overwhelming majority of new/upgraded installations use four-section FYAs.

Wait, hold up. I previewed my post, and I'm just now noticing that the picture I linked is of a five-section FYA signal. That makes it even more unusual than I thought. Huh.

[jakeroot]

Wait, hold up. I previewed my post, and I'm just now noticing that the picture I linked is of a five-section FYA signal. That makes it even more unusual than I thought. Huh.

I'm also curious why it was decided to post a doghouse on a signal mast like that. Even in areas that predominantly use doghouses overhead, 5-section towers are posted on the signal mast (California, Colorado, Nevada(?)).

Spokane, WA is the only city that I know of which, currently and previously, posts doghouses both on the mast and mast arm: https://goo.gl/Jz4hEG (although, 5-section towers are used for right turn filters -- not sure why)

[US 89]

Wait, hold up. I previewed my post, and I'm just now noticing that the picture I linked is of a five-section FYA signal. That makes it even more unusual than I thought. Huh.

I'm also curious why it was decided to post a doghouse on a signal mast like that. Even in areas that predominantly use doghouses overhead, 5-section towers are posted on the signal mast (California, Colorado, Nevada(?)).

Spokane, WA is the only city that I know of which, currently and previously, posts doghouses both on the mast and mast arm: https://goo.gl/Jz4hEG (although, 5-section towers are used for right turn filters -- not sure why)

Utah doesn't put lights on the signal pole that often. But when it does, they're usually doghouses, for all applications (although pole-mounted left-turn signals are not commonly used). 5-section towers are very rare in Utah; I can only think of two intersections off the top of my head with them.

If you ask me, I like the practice of doghouses overhead and 5-section towers on the side. IMO, a 5-section tower on a mast arm looks a little strange especially when it's next to a regular 3-section signal, and doghouses mounted to a pole look large and bulky.

[Signal]

I've answered this question for you before, so I'll do it again.
Doghouses were approved by the MUTCD in 1971. The MUTCD does not just invent new standards for signals, nor is any municipality technically required to follow it (it is just a strongly encouraged set of guidelines). It only includes new revisions after they have become well practiced and thoroughly experimented with for many years prior. Those eagle flatbacks are not the earliest doghouse out there, they are at least 20 years late. You can be sure that the first doghouses and 5-section signals were definitely not 12" . The Econolite bullseye/long-groove doghouse (you've posted my picture of it before) is from the mid-1950s. As Cameron says, he had a Marbelite doghouse from the 1960s. There are still some Crouse-Hinds type M doghouses in use in Baltimore that date back to the early 1960s. Those inline 5-section type Ds in use here may not be original (they could have been put together from parts later on), but they would date back to the 1940s.
It's impossible to pinpoint the first doghouse ever made, because we don't have street view going back through all of time (though it would be really nice if we did). Standards were a lot more ambiguous back then, and the signal practices varied much more widely across the country than they do today, so we don't know who was the first to try them. But 12"  flatbacks are definitely not the earliest. Yellow arrows were in use, albeit much less commonly, for several decades before the 1970s. By the 1970s, as you see with the prevalence of those doghouses in your area, they were already very common — so they had to have started gradually building popularity earlier on.

Here's an extremely rare early model of 8"  yellow arrow lens I have in my collection (Kopp #4706):

[traffic light guy]

I've answered this question for you before, so I'll do it again.
Doghouses were approved by the MUTCD in 1971. The MUTCD does not just invent new standards for signals, nor is any municipality technically required to follow it (it is just a strongly encouraged set of guidelines). It only includes new revisions after they have become well practiced and thoroughly experimented with for many years prior. Those eagle flatbacks are not the earliest doghouse out there, they are at least 20 years late. You can be sure that the first doghouses and 5-section signals were definitely not 12" . The Econolite bullseye/long-groove doghouse (you've posted my picture of it before) is from the mid-1950s. As Cameron says, he had a Marbelite doghouse from the 1960s. There are still some Crouse-Hinds type M doghouses in use in Baltimore that date back to the early 1960s. Those inline 5-section type Ds in use here may not be original (they could have been put together from parts later on), but they would date back to the 1940s.
It's impossible to pinpoint the first doghouse ever made, because we don't have street view going back through all of time (though it would be really nice if we did). Standards were a lot more ambiguous back then, and the signal practices varied much more widely across the country than they do today, so we don't know who was the first to try them. But 12"  flatbacks are definitely not the earliest. Yellow arrows were in use, albeit much less commonly, for several decades before the 1970s. By the 1970s, as you see with the prevalence of those doghouses in your area, they were already very common — so they had to have started gradually building popularity earlier on.

Here's an extremely rare early model of 8"  yellow arrow lens I have in my collection (Kopp #4706):

Thanks for the info signal. If you're curious, the signals in my photos have permits dating to 1973, acording to an E-Mail that I had received from PennDOT. You are right about them not being the oldest doghouses. Around Philadelphia's region however, those 12" Flatbacks are the earliest among the other doghouses within the area. I'll pull up the e-mail, and show it to you soon.

[jakeroot]

How many times are you going to repeat this information? We know the signals date to the early 70s. Isn't this thread about finding the first doghouse? It's been established that this isn't it.

[traffic light guy]

How many times are you going to repeat this information? We know the signals date to the early 70s. Isn't this thread about finding the first doghouse? It's been established that this isn't it.

With those e-mails, I was providing an official source confirming a more specific date for those signals, that way there are no misconceptions. I don't want complaints that i'm pulling these dates outta my ass. At the time of the post, those were the oldest doghouses that I was aware of. Now I know that there's earlier equipment. Not to mention, like I've said several times, those are the oldest doghouses still serving within my area, not the entire country.

[traffic light guy]

I need to find more old doghouses within the Philadelphia area (At least 40 years old)

[Signal man619]

I need to find more old doghouses within the Philadelphia area (At least 40 years old)

I think by now you've found them all.

[traffic light guy]

I need to find more old doghouses within the Philadelphia area (At least 40 years old)

I think by now you've found them all.

Unfortunately

[traffic light guy]

There are three more really old doghouses in the Levittown section of Bristol Township, Just like Lower Merion, these are 12" Eagle flatbacks. As far as I know, these signals were installed at some point during the seventies:

12-inch Eagle Flatback Doghouse traffic signal by thesignalman, on Flickr

Eagle Flatback Doghouse, Econolite Buttonback, and an 8" Eagle flatback by thesignalman, on Flickr

Eagle flatback doghouse, a TCT, an 8" eagle flatback, and an eaglelux by thesignalman, on Flickr

[TheArkansasRoadgeek]

I like that doghouse.

[traffic light guy]

I like that doghouse.

Which one, there are three of them

[TheArkansasRoadgeek]

I like that doghouse.

Which one, there are three of them

Oops. I was not clear - was I? I was referring to the bottom photo with the doghouse mounted atop the mast arm.

Sorry about that!

[traffic light guy]

I like that doghouse.

Which one, there are three of them

Oops. I was not clear - was I? I was referring to the bottom photo with the doghouse mounted atop the mast arm.

Sorry about that!

My favorite is the first one, with the weird smooshed bracket (The one mounted on the side)

[TheArkansasRoadgeek]

I like that doghouse.

Which one, there are three of them

Oops. I was not clear - was I? I was referring to the bottom photo with the doghouse mounted atop the mast arm.

Sorry about that!

My favorite is the first one, with the weird smooshed bracket (The one mounted on the side)

I am just assuming that yellow on blue street blades means county road or is that just by choice?

[traffic light guy]

I like that doghouse.

Which one, there are three of them

Oops. I was not clear - was I? I was referring to the bottom photo with the doghouse mounted atop the mast arm.

Sorry about that!

My favorite is the first one, with the weird smooshed bracket (The one mounted on the side)

I am just assuming that yellow on blue street blades means county road or is that just by choice?

It's by choice, PennDOT uses different street blades for each Township. Although major cities like Philly have their own.

[TheArkansasRoadgeek]

I like that doghouse.

Which one, there are three of them

Oops. I was not clear - was I? I was referring to the bottom photo with the doghouse mounted atop the mast arm.

Sorry about that!

My favorite is the first one, with the weird smooshed bracket (The one mounted on the side)

I am just assuming that yellow on blue street blades means county road or is that just by choice?

It's by choice, PennDOT uses different street blades for each Township. Although major cities like Philly have their own.

That's neat!

[jakeroot]

Interesting that the mounting bracket for the overhead doghouse is curved. The ones I'm familiar with all have straight corners.

[traffic light guy]

Interesting that the mounting bracket for the overhead doghouse is curved. The ones I'm familiar with all have straight corners.

PennDOT used curved brackets for their older signal installs.

[jakeroot]

Interesting that the mounting bracket for the overhead doghouse is curved. The ones I'm familiar with all have straight corners.

PennDOT used curved brackets for their older signal installs.

That's very cool. The attention to detail for some of the older setups is remarkable. Of course, aesthetics is subjective, but I don't know of any agency that would use curved brackets just for fun these days. Maybe there was a reason for the current the brackets, but I can't think of one.

[traffic light guy]

I’ve answered this question for you before, so I’ll do it again.
Doghouses were approved by the MUTCD in 1971. The MUTCD does not just invent new standards for signals, nor is any municipality technically required to follow it (it is just a strongly encouraged set of guidelines). It only includes new revisions after they have become well practiced and thoroughly experimented with for many years prior. Those eagle flatbacks are not the earliest doghouse out there, they are at least 20 years late. You can be sure that the first doghouses and 5-section signals were definitely not 12”. The Econolite bullseye/long-groove doghouse (you’ve posted my picture of it before) is from the mid-1950s. As Cameron says, he had a Marbelite doghouse from the 1960s. There are still some Crouse-Hinds type M doghouses in use in Baltimore that date back to the early 1960s. Those inline 5-section type Ds in use here may not be original (they could have been put together from parts later on), but they would date back to the 1940s.
It’s impossible to pinpoint the first doghouse ever made, because we don’t have street view going back through all of time (though it would be really nice if we did). Standards were a lot more ambiguous back then, and the signal practices varied much more widely across the country than they do today, so we don’t know who was the first to try them. But 12” flatbacks are definitely not the earliest. Yellow arrows were in use, albeit much less commonly, for several decades before the 1970s. By the 1970s, as you see with the prevalence of those doghouses in your area, they were already very common – so they had to have started gradually building popularity earlier on.

Here’s an extremely rare early model of 8” yellow arrow lens I have in my collection (Kopp #4706):

Here are a few things that I've gotta say:

*You're correct about the fact that the doghouse wasn't approved by the MUTCD until 1971.

*That long groove/bullseye doghouse, is not from the mid-1950s. That's excruciatingly early for a signal configuration that advanced. (The 1950s were a time where 4-Ways were still very common) The square-door bullseye didn't begin production until 1963, so that long-groove doghouse may have not been original. It may have been rearranged from different parts when the Bullseye section went it.  That long groove doghouse has got to be from the early-60s at the very least.

*8-8-8-8-8 Marbelite Doghouses were most likely the earliest Doghouses that didn't derive from older parts

*Delaware and Pennsylvania did their Doghouses around the same time (Hence the fact that their earliest recorded Doghouses are eagle flatbacks) You've said that Eagle Flatback Doghouses are "Not particularly rare" and "they were already pretty common in the 1970s" I wouldn't say doghouses were already common in Pennsylvania during the seventies, as many of their setups, that derive from that era, lack Doghouses. You could be partially right, since they might have been more common in other states at the time. Plus, the US is a huge country, only God knows how many of those doghouses there are. Now, about those Flatback Doghouses not being too common in my area, well, this is because PA is very behind when it comes to their signals, it was one of the last states to use yellow traps and the red arrow. An example being the fact that Philadelphia didn't convert all their old signals to LEDs until 2011. The fact that Pennsylvania is a little bit behind when it comes to their signals, has to do with the fact that, there were most likely, 20 doghouses within the area in 1977. What if they've all been replaced, well, here's your answer; over a decade ago, before the upgrades, when I moved from New Jersey to PA, Eagle flatbacks were very common, all the setups I've seen thus far, lacked these "flatback era" doghouses. I didn't know that Eagle flatback doghouses existed until a few years ago, when I accidentally stumbled upon one in Lower Merion.  The first official legal Doghouses were Deleware's 12-8-8-8 eagle flatbacks, which are slightly older than the Doghouses in my area, maybe by a year or two. (They were most likely the first to be installed after they were given the MUTCD's stamp of approval) As for Pennsylvania, I honestly don't think the state had Doghouses before those 12" Eagle flatbacks. Since you've also gotta keep in mind that doghouses were still relatively new during the 70s, so of course they're not gonna be very common. It's just like how yellow traps still aren't very common in certain parts of the U.S.

*I'll give you credit, you are more experienced than I am when it comes to traffic lights, so I could be wrong. But this is coming from my standpoint.

LG-M327

[traffic light guy]

As of now, the two doghouses on Bristol Oxford Valley Road got replaced 

[steviep24]

This is about as old as they get.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dsQ5vFQGuI