Control Cities in California

[Evillangbuildsmc]

Any ideas for control cities on california freeways?

The 91 Westbound has Beach Cities, Los Angeles, Artesia and Thru Traffic control city. While 91 Eastbound has Thru Traffic, and Riverside.

A portion of 91 was deleted between SR-1 and Vermont Avenue in 2003.

The 605 put up Thru Traffic and no control cities since its opening.

The 710 Northbound has Pasadena control city South of SR-60 and Valley Boulevard control city North of SR-60.

The 710 is incomplete between I-10 and I-210. The project was scrapped last year.

Source for the 710 gap scrapped: https://www.pasadenastarnews.com/2018/11/14/la-metro-committee-approves-500m-in-710-freeway-gap-closure-dollars-for-local-road-improvements/

The 60 Eastbound control cities are Pomona, Riverside and Indio. While 60 Westbound control cities are Riverside and Los Angeles.

[ilpt4u]

Maybe Cali should take a cue from IL...and use "Suburbs"  for a Control on I-605 (I-355 says hello!)

Also, Pacific Ocean or Hawaii, Nevada, and Arizona should be used as Controls, as needed, too, to keep the IL theme going.../sarcasm

[TheStranger]

I recall it being discussed in several threads before, but it does feel like pre-1970s CalTrans/CDOH really liked using local control cities as much as possible (much of which has made it to the present day, i.e. in downtown and east LA), as opposed to how other states tend to sign long-distance destinations even from downtown interchanges.  Part of it has to do with how freeways were originally completed within urban areas first before becoming part of longer-distance corridors, such as the San Bernardino Freeway being a local segment of US 60/70/99 before being incorporated into a transcontinental I-10.  Part of it is also an emphasis on major local road junctions (i.e. "Bay Bridge/Oakland" signage for I-80 in SF instead of "Sacramento")

When I-5 was completed on the West Side alignment in the 1970s, this changed somewhat: the original US 99 Golden State Freeway control city of Bakersfield within San Fernando Valley and LA was supplanted by "Sacramento" to reflect I-5 going there and not continuing on the Golden State route.

[michravera]

Any ideas for control cities on california freeways?

The 91 Westbound has Beach Cities, Los Angeles, Artesia and Thru Traffic control city. While 91 Eastbound has Thru Traffic, and Riverside.

A portion of 91 was deleted between SR-1 and Vermont Avenue in 2003.

The 605 put up Thru Traffic and no control cities since its opening.

The 710 Northbound has Pasadena control city South of SR-60 and Valley Boulevard control city North of SR-60.

The 710 is incomplete between I-10 and I-210. The project was scrapped last year.

Source for the 710 gap scrapped: https://www.pasadenastarnews.com/2018/11/14/la-metro-committee-approves-500m-in-710-freeway-gap-closure-dollars-for-local-road-improvements/

The 60 Eastbound control cities are Pomona, Riverside and Indio. While 60 Westbound control cities are Riverside and Los Angeles.

The big problem in both the LA-OC and Bay Area is that it is often difficult to pick a place to which a road goes that is both meaningful and differentiates that road from others. For instance, both US-101 and I-5 are routes that will eventually get you to San Francisco, but posting "San Francisco" for either one is unhelpful and potentially misleading (since either might be faster depending upon a number of factors that can't be readily determined at the time that one would have to make the choice).
I-5 is the GtFooH route from LA to the north, so signing "Sacramento" is reasonable. Anyone remotely familiar with California geography will understand that "Sacramento" is a surrogate for "anywhere north of the Basin that one probably wants to go".
I-10 serves a similar function to the east. You can sign it "San Bernardino" or "Phoenix" and it will work fine. Once again, anyone remotely familiar with California geography will understand "anywhere east of the Basin one probably wants to go".
It would make sense to sign other eastbound and northbound roads with more local destinations to help one differentiate between Ventura and Pasadena.
If you are headed south, you have choices even from Downtown LA. So, most of the freeways are signed with more local destinations. That may not help anyone choose between El Centro and San Diego, but it will help pick between Disneyland and Pasadena.
If you are headed west, any westbound road (and even many north- and southbound roads) will eventually take you to the Pacific Ocean, so it makes sense to sign more local destinations.
I won't claim that CalTrans does the best job possible, but it could be a lot worse.

Similar things happen in the Bay Area, but things are more clear. "San Jose" is "anywhere south". "Los Angeles" is "anywhere south" because the alternative routes to LA don't present themselves until Gilroy, 50 km south of San Jose. Local destinations are often preferred for everything except US-101 and I-80.

[bing101]

Any ideas for control cities on california freeways?

The 91 Westbound has Beach Cities, Los Angeles, Artesia and Thru Traffic control city. While 91 Eastbound has Thru Traffic, and Riverside.

A portion of 91 was deleted between SR-1 and Vermont Avenue in 2003.

The 605 put up Thru Traffic and no control cities since its opening.

The 710 Northbound has Pasadena control city South of SR-60 and Valley Boulevard control city North of SR-60.

The 710 is incomplete between I-10 and I-210. The project was scrapped last year.

Source for the 710 gap scrapped: https://www.pasadenastarnews.com/2018/11/14/la-metro-committee-approves-500m-in-710-freeway-gap-closure-dollars-for-local-road-improvements/

The 60 Eastbound control cities are Pomona, Riverside and Indio. While 60 Westbound control cities are Riverside and Los Angeles.

US-101 North in the Los Angeles Area would have the control city of San Jose. Its just like US-101 South in San Jose would have Los Angeles as a control city.


Yes its similar to Southbound I-5 in Sacramento having Los Angeles as a control city and I-5 North in the Los Angeles area having Sacramento as a control city.


Reno and South Lake Tahoe appears in the Sacramento area as being anywhere East of Sacramento on US-50 or I-80.


Interestingly at the Northbound CA-99 @ I-5 Interchange in Kern County I-5 has Sacramento and San Francisco as the control cities and CA-99 North has Bakersfield and Fresno though and CA-99 @ I-5 meets again in Downtown Sacramento though.


https://www.aaroads.com/california/i-005ni_ca.html

[nexus73]

My favorite one is at the half-interchange of US 101 and US 199: Oregon Coast!

Rick

[GaryA]

Let's not forget "Indio / other Desert Cities" on I-10 East (with that capitalization!).

Caltrans used to be very reluctant to use out-of-state control cities.  I used to think that towns like Truckee, Needles, and Blythe must be important, because they were on so many highway signs.  They've gotten somewhat better -- at least they sign "Las Vegas" on I-15 from I-10.

[mrsman]

Maybe Cali should take a cue from IL...and use "Suburbs"  for a Control on I-605 (I-355 says hello!)

Also, Pacific Ocean or Hawaii, Nevada, and Arizona should be used as Controls, as needed, too, to keep the IL theme going.../sarcasm

Don't forget Mexico!   

[mrsman]

Let's not forget "Indio / other Desert Cities" on I-10 East (with that capitalization!).

Caltrans used to be very reluctant to use out-of-state control cities.  I used to think that towns like Truckee, Needles, and Blythe must be important, because they were on so many highway signs.  They've gotten somewhat better -- at least they sign "Las Vegas" on I-15 from I-10.

I love a good control city discussion thread.  Especially when discussing my home state.

I think what you say is correct, the control cities chosen favor local cities and disfavor any cities out of state.  Ideally, IMO, I prefer the midwestern style (MO, IL outside of Chicagoland, IN, etc.) where control cities on the interstates are to other cities of national reputation as opposed to local suburbs.  But the explanations here are very reasonable.

IMO, the current signage is definitely OK on most of the freeways.  I-5's NB control city should be Los Angeles in southern Orange County and not Santa Ana (but I'm not opposed to signing both Santa Ana and Los Angeles if there is room).  The control city on I-10 EB should be San Bernardino, then Indio, and then Phoenix.  All Ii-15 NB signage with Barstow that still exists should be replaced with Las Vegas.  I-40's eastbound control should be Flagstaff.

Some of the local ones, I know we've discussed before, but the preference has to be towards what is helpful. 

Anaheim is a bad control city for CA-55 NB but a great one for CA 91 WB in place of Beach Cities.  West of CA-55, the proper control is Gardena, even though it's not that big of a city.  If the freeway extended to Redondo Beach, that would make more sense, but it doesn't.  I would use Anaheim as an EB control between 110 and I-5, instead of Riverside.

I say bring back I-710 NB to LA.  (It's never going to Pasadena).  north of I-5, the control can be I-710 to CA 60 and I-10 without the use of a city.  Alhambra may be OK as well.

[hotdogPi]

I should incorporate a city named Thru Traffic.

[nexus73]

I should incorporate a city named Thru Traffic.

Try "Rome" instead.  All roads lead to there...LOL!

Rick

[RZF]

I kinda think they go with local destinations because the Greater LA area has grown so large. So that's why "Ventura" is the control city for US-101 North from DTLA. That's also why we have control cities like "Indio" and "Barstow" (although I would say it's a bit of a stretch to call those two cities suburbs of LA).

Also, I don't think the US-101 North control city should be San Jose in Downtown LA at all. At that point, I-5 is the better/faster route to points North, including the Bay Area.

[ClassicHasClass]

Let's not forget "Indio / other Desert Cities" on I-10 East (with that capitalization!).

Caltrans used to be very reluctant to use out-of-state control cities.  I used to think that towns like Truckee, Needles, and Blythe must be important, because they were on so many highway signs.  They've gotten somewhat better -- at least they sign "Las Vegas" on I-15 from I-10.

They've got Phoenix in a few places on I-10 as well. US 395 shows Reno when you get sufficiently north of Bishop (and Susanville/points south). But it's certainly the exception rather than the rule.

[Max Rockatansky]

On CA 99 I noticed theme tends to be the next major city and next two minor locales past each junction for control cities.

[nexus73]

Let's not forget "Indio / other Desert Cities" on I-10 East (with that capitalization!).

Caltrans used to be very reluctant to use out-of-state control cities.  I used to think that towns like Truckee, Needles, and Blythe must be important, because they were on so many highway signs.  They've gotten somewhat better -- at least they sign "Las Vegas" on I-15 from I-10.

They've got Phoenix in a few places on I-10 as well. US 395 shows Reno when you get sufficiently north of Bishop (and Susanville/points south). But it's certainly the exception rather than the rule.

Reno, did you say Reno?  Here's a strange one for you.  Central Oregon, by LaPine, is where US 97 intersects SR 31.  A sign indicating Reno as a destination is placed approaching the intersection....right in the middle of Oregon...LOL!

Going along I-5. does Sacramento get any love?  Nope.  San Francisco gets mentioned heading south of Klamath Falls on US 97 unless there has been a changing of signs since I saw this one but no mention of Sacramento.  Drive along US 101 and the only California city mentioned is Crescent City with the first sign (unless since removed) being just south of Gold Beach.

Since Caltrans uses Oregon control cities much farther away from the border than Oregon does other than the US 97/SR 31 exception, I do wish that ODOT would respond in kind.  The world does not end at the border after all.  However prices for everything do go up considerably, especially gas!

Rick

[ClassicHasClass]

US 395 shows Reno when you get sufficiently north of Bishop (and Susanville/points south). But it's certainly the exception rather than the rule.

Reno, did you say Reno?  Here's a strange one for you.  Central Oregon, by LaPine, is where US 97 intersects SR 31.  A sign indicating Reno as a destination is placed approaching the intersection....right in the middle of Oregon...LOL!

Actually, there's a reason for this, however tenuous. OR 31 terminates at US 395 in Valley Falls, which (surprise surprise) goes to Reno. In the reverse direction from Valley Falls NB OR 31 is signed for Bend.

https://www.floodgap.com/roadgap/395/u18/#img_30

[Mark68]

Let's not forget "Indio / other Desert Cities" on I-10 East (with that capitalization!).

Caltrans used to be very reluctant to use out-of-state control cities.  I used to think that towns like Truckee, Needles, and Blythe must be important, because they were on so many highway signs.  They've gotten somewhat better -- at least they sign "Las Vegas" on I-15 from I-10.

My guess on the I-15 north control cities is that there really is nothing between Barstow and Vegas. I can certainly see including signage for Barstow, as that is a major junction (with I-40), but anything north of there would have to be Vegas. I just can't see Baker ever being a control city (I guess you could say Baker/Death Valley, but that would be a stretch).

As has been mentioned previously, I think the control cities were indicative of early freeway development, as in LA, the freeways were like spokes in a wheel with the East LA interchange and downtown in the center.

Want to go east? Take the Pomona or San Bernardino Freeways toward those two cities. Southeast? Santa Ana Freeway. South? Harbor Freeway. West? Santa Monica Freeway. Northwest? Hollywood Freeway. North? Golden State Freeway. The original freeways got you in the direction of the cities the freeways were named for (except the Golden State, which would get you...every non-coastal city of any importance going north).

Now that the use of freeway nomenclature has changed, it's understandable that the original control cities are not necessarily helpful to new residents or tourists who aren't necessarily familiar with the geography of the Southland.

I'm actually looking into moving back to my home state and while I know the geography very well, I'd have to give my New England born-and-raised wife a crash course in the lay of the land (even though we've been there several times).

[GaryA]

My guess on the I-15 north control cities is that there really is nothing between Barstow and Vegas. I can certainly see including signage for Barstow, as that is a major junction (with I-40), but anything north of there would have to be Vegas. I just can't see Baker ever being a control city (I guess you could say Baker/Death Valley, but that would be a stretch).

If I recall correctly, Baker was indeed the control city on I-15 north of Barstow.  Past there, I don't recall whether they used Las Vegas or just "I-15 North".

[pdx-wanderer]

My guess on the I-15 north control cities is that there really is nothing between Barstow and Vegas. I can certainly see including signage for Barstow, as that is a major junction (with I-40), but anything north of there would have to be Vegas. I just can't see Baker ever being a control city (I guess you could say Baker/Death Valley, but that would be a stretch).

If I recall correctly, Baker was indeed the control city on I-15 north of Barstow.  Past there, I don't recall whether they used Las Vegas or just "I-15 North".

At the NB on-ramp for the Lenwood Rd Barstow exit, there is a Helvetica BGS for Las Vegas. Salt Lake City (three states away!) is on several mileage signs north of Baker.  With that in mind, there should be an Albuquerque sign on I-40!

I remember seeing a few Portland signs on US 199. Coos Bay is on US 101. Even Burns and Lakeview, OR appear on Us 395. Las Vegas on SR 58. Portland on I-5 from Redding north. Reno on SR 14. California is very good at signing the long distance out of state destinations.

[djsekani]

Any ideas for control cities on california freeways?

The 91 Westbound has Beach Cities, Los Angeles, Artesia and Thru Traffic control city. While 91 Eastbound has Thru Traffic, and Riverside.

A portion of 91 was deleted between SR-1 and Vermont Avenue in 2003.

The 605 put up Thru Traffic and no control cities since its opening.

The 710 Northbound has Pasadena control city South of SR-60 and Valley Boulevard control city North of SR-60.

The 710 is incomplete between I-10 and I-210. The project was scrapped last year.

Source for the 710 gap scrapped: https://www.pasadenastarnews.com/2018/11/14/la-metro-committee-approves-500m-in-710-freeway-gap-closure-dollars-for-local-road-improvements/

The 60 Eastbound control cities are Pomona, Riverside and Indio. While 60 Westbound control cities are Riverside and Los Angeles.

A lot of the freeways are just suburban connectors, so I can't think of a control city that would mean anything in many cases.

I-605 south could be Long Beach, but traffic on I-605 north is mostly just connecting to another freeway heading someone else; I don't think a control city of Duarte would mean anything outside of being technically correct.

CA-91 west technically ends in Artesia, but traffic there is all going to the Beach Cities (Manhattan, Redondo, Hermosa) anyway. There could be a regional control of South Bay, but I can't think of what city out of the group would be more "important" than any other to be a suitable control city.

I-710 north could still work with Pasadena as a control if the proposed surface street upgrades (the alternate to the 710 tunnel) are ever completed.

[GaryA]

I-605 south could be Long Beach, but traffic on I-605 north is mostly just connecting to another freeway heading someone else; I don't think a control city of Duarte would mean anything outside of being technically correct.

I wouldn't suggest Long Beach for I-605 south, since traffic on I-605 isn't anywhere near downtown Long Beach and is not heading in that direction. Imagine coming in from the east -- would the suggested route to Long Beach be I-605 south to I-405 north (and then likely to I-710 south), or to continue until you reach I-710 south in the first place?  If there must be a control city allocated to I-605 south, I'd suggest Seal Beach, though only moderately well known, and although I-605 doesn't quite reach it, the next exit on I-405 is Seal Beach Blvd.  In fact I-605 still extends on paper to Seal Beach, although any actual construction is extremely unlikely.

[DTComposer]

US-101 North in the Los Angeles Area would have the control city of San Jose. Its just like US-101 South in San Jose would have Los Angeles as a control city.

Except that I-5 to CA-152 is shorter and (90% of the time) faster than US-101 for everyone in L.A. County except perhaps Malibu and Agoura Hills. This will become even more so if/when they upgrade CA-152 to four lanes between Casa de Fruta and Gilroy.

The difference the other direction is that everyone leaving San Jose will use US-101 to start to Los Angeles, then you can decide between staying on US-101 or going CA-152 to I-5.

I-605 south could be Long Beach, but traffic on I-605 north is mostly just connecting to another freeway heading someone else; I don't think a control city of Duarte would mean anything outside of being technically correct.

I wouldn't suggest Long Beach for I-605 south, since traffic on I-605 isn't anywhere near downtown Long Beach and is not heading in that direction. Imagine coming in from the east -- would the suggested route to Long Beach be I-605 south to I-405 north (and then likely to I-710 south), or to continue until you reach I-710 south in the first place?  If there must be a control city allocated to I-605 south, I'd suggest Seal Beach, though only moderately well known, and although I-605 doesn't quite reach it, the next exit on I-405 is Seal Beach Blvd.  In fact I-605 still extends on paper to Seal Beach, although any actual construction is extremely unlikely.

When going back and forth from downtown Long Beach to Claremont, I always used I-710/I-105/I-605 (unless traffic dictated otherwise).

I've always been OK with two control cities (one local, one distant) or the use of regions (although "Beach Cities" is a little vague given that almost every city between Santa Monica and the San Diego County line ends in "Beach").

On I-605 north, I would use "Whittier/San Gabriel Valley" until Whittier Boulevard, then "West Covina/El Monte" until I-10. I would use them as secondary controls for I-10 (i.e., "El Monte/Los Angeles" and "West Covina/San Bernardino"). North of there on I-605 I would be OK with "To I-210."

Southbound, I'd be OK with using Long Beach until I-710 or CA-91, then have supplemental signs saying "Downtown Long Beach use CA-91 west to I-710" or something like that. South of there on I-605 I would be OK with "To I-405," "Orange County Beaches," or even "Irvine/San Diego" if the I-405 signage gets more consistent.

[mrsman]

With regards to control cities I believe 605 controls should be seal Beach and duarte
Agree with comments that Long Beach is confusing since 6:05 does not go near downtown.  While duarte is small it is at least well-known locally for City of Hope hospital.

For a long time I assumed beach cities referred to Manhattan Hermosa and Redondo, but it could just as easily refer to Huntington and Newport.  Keep in mind that 55 north control City for a long time is Riverside so the converse is that the highway leading away from Riverside leads to Newport Beach.  none-the-less beach cities is only signed in the inland empire to distinguish between 91 + the other highways that go directly towards Los Angeles.  Once you are in Orange county 91 westbound control is Los Angeles.  I think using Anaheim instead of beach cities is far better.

Nexus 5X

[mrsman]

US-101 North in the Los Angeles Area would have the control city of San Jose. Its just like US-101 South in San Jose would have Los Angeles as a control city.

Except that I-5 to CA-152 is shorter and (90% of the time) faster than US-101 for everyone in L.A. County except perhaps Malibu and Agoura Hills. This will become even more so if/when they upgrade CA-152 to four lanes between Casa de Fruta and Gilroy.

The difference the other direction is that everyone leaving San Jose will use US-101 to start to Los Angeles, then you can decide between staying on US-101 or going CA-152 to I-5.

I-605 south could be Long Beach, but traffic on I-605 north is mostly just connecting to another freeway heading someone else; I don't think a control city of Duarte would mean anything outside of being technically correct.

I wouldn't suggest Long Beach for I-605 south, since traffic on I-605 isn't anywhere near downtown Long Beach and is not heading in that direction. Imagine coming in from the east -- would the suggested route to Long Beach be I-605 south to I-405 north (and then likely to I-710 south), or to continue until you reach I-710 south in the first place?  If there must be a control city allocated to I-605 south, I'd suggest Seal Beach, though only moderately well known, and although I-605 doesn't quite reach it, the next exit on I-405 is Seal Beach Blvd.  In fact I-605 still extends on paper to Seal Beach, although any actual construction is extremely unlikely.

When going back and forth from downtown Long Beach to Claremont, I always used I-710/I-105/I-605 (unless traffic dictated otherwise).

I've always been OK with two control cities (one local, one distant) or the use of regions (although "Beach Cities" is a little vague given that almost every city between Santa Monica and the San Diego County line ends in "Beach").

On I-605 north, I would use "Whittier/San Gabriel Valley" until Whittier Boulevard, then "West Covina/El Monte" until I-10. I would use them as secondary controls for I-10 (i.e., "El Monte/Los Angeles" and "West Covina/San Bernardino"). North of there on I-605 I would be OK with "To I-210."

Southbound, I'd be OK with using Long Beach until I-710 or CA-91, then have supplemental signs saying "Downtown Long Beach use CA-91 west to I-710" or something like that. South of there on I-605 I would be OK with "To I-405," "Orange County Beaches," or even "Irvine/San Diego" if the I-405 signage gets more consistent.

Having the control for southbound 605 as San Diego south of the 91 is very interesting.  It reminds me of the control for 680 North being Sacramento.  However for obvious reasons it only works well south of i-5 because I thought I would be more direct if you are north of i-5.

Nexus 5X

[djsekani]

I-605 south could be Long Beach, but traffic on I-605 north is mostly just connecting to another freeway heading someone else; I don't think a control city of Duarte would mean anything outside of being technically correct.

I wouldn't suggest Long Beach for I-605 south, since traffic on I-605 isn't anywhere near downtown Long Beach and is not heading in that direction. Imagine coming in from the east -- would the suggested route to Long Beach be I-605 south to I-405 north (and then likely to I-710 south), or to continue until you reach I-710 south in the first place?

Long Beach is more than just downtown. I take 605 south all the time to get to Cal State, Naples, and the various other neighborhoods on the east side of the city.

Even for downtown traffic 605 to 7th Street is a much more direct route than that freeway loop you suggested, especially if you're coming from the SGV and points east and don't want to deal with the ridiculous truck traffic on the 710.