Seafood Quick Service Restaurants.

[TheKnightoftheInterstate]

While searching for restaurants chains, (a hidden passion of mine) I noticed that compared to the hamburger, pizza, subs, or chicken chains, the seafood branch of fast food is limited.

According to the great wiki there are precious few including Long John's Silver, Captain D's, H. Salt. Arthur Treachers is nearly gone with only around 45 at last count in 2008.

I know that seafood chains don't perform well in areas where real and fresh seafood is harvested (New England, coastal areas, Florida etc) but the low numbers of chains and units still shocks me. I suppose that ocean fish doesn't sell in the Midwest or LJS has such a grip on the market that all would be competition gave up. I might be missing some small regional chains I apologize for that please fill me in than on their existence.

What's your opinion on this? 

[A.J. Bertin]

This bothers me too. I like seafood, and I tend to eat at a lot of fast-food restaurants.

However, this topic should be posted in the Off Topic board.

[TheKnightoftheInterstate]

sorry about that. would a moderator please move it?

[djsinco]

I agree with you, TKofI. I think it the reason fast food fish is not popular is because it costs to much to actually deliver a decent product. More accurately, it costs more than most people want to pay to deliver a decent product.

IMO Arthur Treacher's is easily the best of this bunch, and Long John Silver's as the worst, I can further state that neither of these are offering the same quality they once did. Of course, that is true of all fast food, and ultimately in all food as well.

Most people don't want to pay an extra 20% or so for quality, hence the proliferation of the Golden Arches. Way back when, even there food tasted pretty good.

OTOH, Arthur Treacher's still tastes good; unfortunately for me, their closest franchise is 1200 miles from my home. When I go to the east, I always try to stop for a bite. LJS introduced "Thick-Cut Cod," and it is actually quite good. It costs a couple of dollars more than the minced mix of dreg fish that is their standard fare; so I expect it will be off their menu soon. 

[jeffandnicole]

A good reference for this type of item is QSR (Quick Service Restaurant) Magazine.

http://www.qsrmagazine.com/reports/qsr50-2012-top-50-chart?sort=avg_sales&dir=desc

Using the chart linked above, which fairly details sales per unit, you'll have to scroll down pretty far in the list to find one of the 2 main fast food seafood restaurants.

Seafood just isn't one of those things that people want in the drive-thru, and when it does, the item or two offered at the main restaurants (McDonalds has the Fish Filet, for example) satisfies the craving.  At the combo Taco Bell/Long John Silver restaurant near me, at least from what I've seen there, nearly all the orders are for the Taco Bell items.

[agentsteel53]

the combo Taco Bell/Long John Silver restaurant near me

which one is the primary restaurant in this case?  where I live, KFC/Taco Bell is popular, and KFC definitely is the main restaurant, with Taco Bell an afterthought.  the place has KFC livery and decor, and most of the wall space dedicated to menus.  furthermore, the meals are numbered 1-n, where the Taco Bell meals are numbered T1-Tn.

[Landshark]

I know that seafood chains don't perform well in areas where real and fresh seafood is harvested (New England, coastal areas, Florida etc)

Or they have their own local based chains, such as Ivar's and Skippers in the Seattle area. 

[djsinco]

A good reference for this type of item is QSR (Quick Service Restaurant) Magazine.

http://www.qsrmagazine.com/reports/qsr50-2012-top-50-chart?sort=avg_sales&dir=desc

Using the chart linked above, which fairly details sales per unit, you'll have to scroll down pretty far in the list to find one of the 2 main fast food seafood restaurants.

Seafood just isn't one of those things that people want in the drive-thru, and when it does, the item or two offered at the main restaurants (McDonalds has the Fish Filet, for example) satisfies the craving.  At the combo Taco Bell/Long John Silver restaurant near me, at least from what I've seen there, nearly all the orders are for the Taco Bell items.

This pretty much reinforces my point about how "value" is more important than "taste," or "quality." If people really knew what was in most fast food, (Taco Bell being the worst of the worst,) they would not have been able to put tens of thousands of decent places to eat out of business.

[1995hoo]

I know of one Arthur Treacher's in Northern Virginia (Fairfax City near the traffic circle), but it's kind of sketchy-looking and I've never eaten there.

If you don't equate "quick service" with "fast food," there are two places in Northern Virginia that specialize in fish and chips, both under the name "Eamonn's: A Dublin Chipper" (both owned by an Irishman named Cathal Armstrong and his wife; they also own the five-star Restaurant Eve in Alexandria and some other places). The Alexandria location of Eamonn's only seats 20 people. It's not quite the "fast food" model in that the fish and chips are not already made up and being kept warm under lights, but it's still "quick service" compared to most sit-down restaurants.

I think most people just don't think of seafood as being "fast food."

[cpzilliacus]

I know of one Arthur Treacher's in Northern Virginia (Fairfax City near the traffic circle), but it's kind of sketchy-looking and I've never eaten there.

There is also one off of Md. 4 (Pennsylvania Avenue) on Donnell Drive in Forestville, Prince George's County (GSV here).

I've stopped there once or twice - it's not bad.

[hbelkins]

H. Salt's still around? I remember it (faintly) from my childhood. Wasn't bad, as best I can remember.

[djsinco]

I know of one Arthur Treacher's in Northern Virginia (Fairfax City near the traffic circle), but it's kind of sketchy-looking and I've never eaten there.

There is also one off of Md. 4 (Pennsylvania Avenue) on Donnell Drive in Forestville, Prince George's County (GSV here).

I've stopped there once or twice - it's not bad.

Ummm, your GSV pulled up a Long John Silvers, not Arthur Treachers...

[TheKnightoftheInterstate]

H. Salt's still around? I remember it (faintly) from my childhood. Wasn't bad, as best I can remember.

According to their website they are limited to California http://www.hsalt.com/Locations_01.htm



Or they have their own local based chains, such as Ivar's and Skippers in the Seattle area. 

I wonder if those local chains expanded if they would succeed in other markets? I doubt it. Usually local chains need to drop the local charm to attach new customers.

the combo Taco Bell/Long John Silver restaurant near me

which one is the primary restaurant in this case?  where I live, KFC/Taco Bell is popular, and KFC definitely is the main restaurant, with Taco Bell an afterthought.  the place has KFC livery and decor, and most of the wall space dedicated to menus.  furthermore, the meals are numbered 1-n, where the Taco Bell meals are numbered T1-Tn.

Yep. Usually one of the brands gets the short end of the stick. I stopped at a cobranded Taco Bell/Pizza Hut near Lebanon Valley (the college) and the whole menu was Taco Bell except for one option for Pizza Hut. Near where I lived the combined KFC/Taco Bell/Pizza Hut didn't even have the Crunchwrap Supreme!. I can understand not having obscure items at the cobranded restaurants but the Crunchwrap is a staple.

[/quote]

A good reference for this type of item is QSR (Quick Service Restaurant) Magazine.

http://www.qsrmagazine.com/reports/qsr50-2012-top-50-chart?sort=avg_sales&dir=desc

Using the chart linked above, which fairly details sales per unit, you'll have to scroll down pretty far in the list to find one of the 2 main fast food seafood restaurants.

Thanks for the link!

Seafood just isn't one of those things that people want in the drive-thru, and when it does, the item or two offered at the main restaurants (McDonalds has the Fish Filet, for example) satisfies the craving.  At the combo Taco Bell/Long John Silver restaurant near me, at least from what I've seen there, nearly all the orders are for the Taco Bell items.
[/quote]

I agree with you, TKofI. I think it the reason fast food fish is not popular is because it costs to much to actually deliver a decent product. More accurately, it costs more than most people want to pay to deliver a decent product.

IMO Arthur Treacher's is easily the best of this bunch, and Long John Silver's as the worst, I can further state that neither of these are offering the same quality they once did. Of course, that is true of all fast food, and ultimately in all food as well.

Most people don't want to pay an extra 20% or so for quality, hence the proliferation of the Golden Arches. Way back when, even there food tasted pretty good.

OTOH, Arthur Treacher's still tastes good; unfortunately for me, their closest franchise is 1200 miles from my home. When I go to the east, I always try to stop for a bite. LJS introduced "Thick-Cut Cod," and it is actually quite good. It costs a couple of dollars more than the minced mix of dreg fish that is their standard fare; so I expect it will be off their menu soon. 

I agree on the 20%. If Central PA had a Hardee's, I would definitely spend the extra to go there. LJS is ok. Around where I live the LJS is cobranded with A&W so I normally ordered A&W instead. Never had Arthur's to my great regret but apparently most are attached to Nathan's. I remember an old faded wooden sign for Arthur's before you go over the hill to Breezewood.

Also, the decline in quality probably wasn't helped by the Cod Wars. Lower standards stick around easier than high standards.

[jeffandnicole]

the combo Taco Bell/Long John Silver restaurant near me

which one is the primary restaurant in this case?  where I live, KFC/Taco Bell is popular, and KFC definitely is the main restaurant, with Taco Bell an afterthought.  the place has KFC livery and decor, and most of the wall space dedicated to menus.  furthermore, the meals are numbered 1-n, where the Taco Bell meals are numbered T1-Tn.

In this case, the restaurant was built new about 5 years ago, and always intended to be a dual TB/LJS, with the relevant building decor for both restaurants.  There is more item space inside for the Taco Bell menu items, although that comes down to the simple fact that there's more offerings available from the Taco Bell menu.  (LJS hasn't come out with a Dorito-crusted fish filet.  Yet.)

It's the only dual TB/LJS in the area.  There was a dual KFC/A&W burger restaurant nearby as well, but that is now solely a KFC.  Dual KFC/Taco Bells are the most common dual restaurants though.

[thenetwork]

There were only two (that I know of) that were in Western Colorado.  One was in Montrose (as an A&W/LJS combo in a Conoco station) and the other in Rifle (as a TB/LJS tandem).

The one in Rifle has been gone for nearly 3-4 years, while the Montrose store is the lone wolf West of the Rockies in Colorado.  Supposedly, the reason I heard from the manager of the now-only Taco Bell store is that some of the seafood choices took a while to make, so to reduce wait times, a limited amount of food had to be already made and placed in reserves (heat lamps).  He claimed that the seafood had a shorter heat-lamp shelf life than other fast foods (burgers, fried chicken,...) so they lost quite a bit of their "stand-by" food if there were no customers. 

I kind of find this a little hard to believe. What I believe moreso is that they were too lazy to make it -- one time I hit their drive thru in Rifle when they opened at 10AM, and was told they didn't start serving LJS food until 11:30!!!  That was probably the last time I went there.

Another reason why LJS and other really good store chains don't pop up in Western Colorado is because it makes little sense for a company supply truck to pay a driver do make a 10-hour round trip just to make a 45-minute delivery to a single store 4-hours from the next closest location.   

[corco]

Part of the reason why A&W and LJS are disappearing from those combo stores is that Yum! Foods which owns KFC/Pizza Hut/Taco Bell sold off A&W and LJS in 2010 or so, which I suspect to be the final bullet in the LJS chain. Those combo restaurants aren't opting to renew their franchise agreements with the new company for whatever reason, so it's plummeting.

[hbelkins]

Part of the reason why A&W and LJS are disappearing from those combo stores is that Yum! Foods which owns KFC/Pizza Hut/Taco Bell sold off A&W and LJS in 2010 or so, which I suspect to be the final bullet in the LJS chain. Those combo restaurants aren't opting to renew their franchise agreements with the new company for whatever reason, so it's plummeting.

Since LJS is a native Kentucky franchise, and Yum is headquartered in southern Indiana, this situation has gotten a lot of press here. My understanding is that the situation is hurting A&W moreso than LJS.

[djsinco]

Part of the reason why A&W and LJS are disappearing from those combo stores is that Yum! Foods which owns KFC/Pizza Hut/Taco Bell sold off A&W and LJS in 2010 or so, which I suspect to be the final bullet in the LJS chain. Those combo restaurants aren't opting to renew their franchise agreements with the new company for whatever reason, so it's plummeting.

Since LJS is a native Kentucky franchise, and Yum is headquartered in southern Indiana, this situation has gotten a lot of press here. My understanding is that the situation is hurting A&W moreso than LJS.

I always found it a bit odd that a seafood chain was headquartered in landlocked KY!

[kphoger]

Part of the reason why A&W and LJS are disappearing from those combo stores is that Yum! Foods which owns KFC/Pizza Hut/Taco Bell sold off A&W and LJS in 2010 or so, which I suspect to be the final bullet in the LJS chain. Those combo restaurants aren't opting to renew their franchise agreements with the new company for whatever reason, so it's plummeting.

Since LJS is a native Kentucky franchise, and Yum is headquartered in southern Indiana, this situation has gotten a lot of press here. My understanding is that the situation is hurting A&W moreso than LJS.

I always found it a bit odd that a seafood chain was headquartered in landlocked KY!

You do realize that fish also live in rivers and lakes, right?

[US71]

Since LJS is a native Kentucky franchise, and Yum is headquartered in southern Indiana, this situation has gotten a lot of press here. My understanding is that the situation is hurting A&W moreso than LJS.

I though A&W was dead?

Van Buren, AR had a Captain D's until 3-4 years ago, but it's now Zaxby's Chicken.

Joplin, MO had one, but it closed. Springfield still has one, but I don't like them: cheaper and greasier than LJS, IMO.

[djsinco]

Part of the reason why A&W and LJS are disappearing from those combo stores is that Yum! Foods which owns KFC/Pizza Hut/Taco Bell sold off A&W and LJS in 2010 or so, which I suspect to be the final bullet in the LJS chain. Those combo restaurants aren't opting to renew their franchise agreements with the new company for whatever reason, so it's plummeting.

Since LJS is a native Kentucky franchise, and Yum is headquartered in southern Indiana, this situation has gotten a lot of press here. My understanding is that the situation is hurting A&W moreso than LJS.

I always found it a bit odd that a seafood chain was headquartered in landlocked KY!

You do realize that fish also live in rivers and lakes, right?

Not the garbage that LJS serves. I have a good friend in the seafood business. LJS buys all the excess trim from better grades of fish, and blends this with fish that is mostly fit to use as bait, (or was, until LJS came along.) They mix it all together and serve it up to the millions of folks who wouldn't know a good piece of fish if it bit them in the behind. It is more or less the dog food of fish.

[corco]

I though A&W was dead?

A&W seems to be stronger in the western states. It's one of two fast food restaurants where I live now, and it's going very strong. I don't even know when the last time I saw a Long John Silvers was (hence thinking the chain was basically dead)- I know the franchisee in Tucson closed all his down right after I moved there, which would have been just after the turnover from Yum!

[djsinco]

Sorry to be such an old sentimentalist, but I remember when A&W made a great burger, as did Dairy Queen (the Brazier food.)  A&W still makes pretty good root beer (on tap in my local A&W,) and of course DQ still makes tasty ice cream creations, but the quality and flavor of the meat is abysmal.

[A.J. Bertin]

I don't even know when the last time I saw a Long John Silvers was (hence thinking the chain was basically dead)- I know the franchisee in Tucson closed all his down right after I moved there, which would have been just after the turnover from Yum!

Long John Silvers is still fairly active. There are several stand-alone locations all over western Michigan that are still open.

[cpzilliacus]

Ummm, your GSV pulled up a Long John Silvers, not Arthur Treachers...

Damn, you are right.

Last time I was through there (obviously several years ago), it was an Arthur Treacher's.