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Illinois notes

Started by mgk920, September 12, 2012, 02:19:57 PM

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inkyatari

In a nutshell, three laning I-55 through Springfield would do more to facilitate a good route to KC (that bypasses St. Louis) than 110.

Three laning 55 should be the next high priority item on IDOT's list, if money ever presents itself.
I'm never wrong, just wildly inaccurate.


I-39

Quote from: inkyatari on June 26, 2017, 03:32:47 PM
Three laning 55 should be the next high priority item on IDOT's list, if money ever presents itself.

That and rebuilding the I-39/US 20 corridor in Rockford. Those are (arguably) the two biggest bottlenecks outside of the Chicago area. Also, the I-57/74 interchange should be right under those as well.

ilpt4u

I-57 between I-24/Marion and I-64/Mount Vernon needs 6 laned also (partially done). Very heavy truck traffic, with the SW/NE bound traffic from I-57 (Memphis-Chicago, and points beyond) and the SE/NW bound traffic from I-24/I-64 (Atlanta-St Louis, and points beyond).

Two separate commercial truck routes converge on that small section of I-57

Of course, the other way to fix that would be to build I-24 directly to I-255 on the SE corner of the STL Beltway, but thats certainly not happening any time soon, if ever, and would cost just a little bit more...


sparker

Quote from: ilpt4u on June 27, 2017, 12:48:48 AM
I-57 between I-24/Marion and I-64/Mount Vernon needs 6 laned also (partially done). Very heavy truck traffic, with the SW/NE bound traffic from I-57 (Memphis-Chicago, and points beyond) and the SE/NW bound traffic from I-24/I-64 (Atlanta-St Louis, and points beyond).

Two separate commercial truck routes converge on that small section of I-57

Of course, the other way to fix that would be to build I-24 directly to I-255 on the SE corner of the STL Beltway, but thats certainly not happening any time soon, if ever, and would cost just a little bit more...



Actually, six-laning I-57, particularly if the additional lanes are built in the median, would cost much,much less than a new-terrain extension of I-24 into greater St. Louis primarily because of property acquisition cost.  Even six-laning both I-57 from I-24 to I-64 and I-64 west of there all the way to ESL would in all likelihood be less than a 24 extension.   

ilpt4u

Yes, it would be much more expensive to build I-24 directly to the I-255 Beltway of STL...I was using a bit of *sarcasm* saying that it would be just a bit more to build/extend I-24 to relieve some of the truck traffic on I-57 between Marion and Mount Vernon

IDOT has already 6-laned some portions, and I believe it is in their plans to upgrade the entire I-57 corridor between I-24 and I-64 to 6 lanes, and it, almost certainly, has to be considerably cheaper than building a new terrain Freeway

Once you get to I-64 West to STL/I-57 North to Chicago gore point in Mount Vernon, it really doesn't need it, because each route is back to its normal traffic level -- its just the "Multiplexed" SE<->NW and SW<->NE routes on that section of I-57 that has a very high truck travel volume, due to it serving 2 separate routes, despite only being signed I-57 (duplexing I-24 over I-57 and I-64 to STL doesn't prove a whole lot, so its not done)

I also selfishly want the fantasy I-24 extension, because it would cut my travel time to STL to about 1 hour, instead of 2, but I don't have the millions laying around to build it privately (and if I did, I'd just get a helicopter, anyway)

dvferyance

Quote from: I-39 on June 24, 2017, 02:36:52 PM
Does the average person even realize 110 exists? I don't think there really is any benefit to it. Most people want to take Interstates, so they will take I-55/72/US 36 or I-55/70 to get to Kansas City. The whole thing is kind of stupid if you ask me.
I never really thought Chicago to KC was a very popular connection anyways. It's certainly not like Chicago to NYC or Chicago to LA.

Finrod

Quote from: dvferyance on June 27, 2017, 02:36:56 PM
Quote from: I-39 on June 24, 2017, 02:36:52 PM
Does the average person even realize 110 exists? I don't think there really is any benefit to it. Most people want to take Interstates, so they will take I-55/72/US 36 or I-55/70 to get to Kansas City. The whole thing is kind of stupid if you ask me.
I never really thought Chicago to KC was a very popular connection anyways. It's certainly not like Chicago to NYC or Chicago to LA.

My ex has family in Chicago, Kansas City and Dallas.  When they wanted to save money going to Kansas City, they drove one time, and I believe they went I-55 to I-70.  I-88 was a non-starter because of the toll.
Internet member since 1987.

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Brandon

Quote from: Finrod on June 27, 2017, 03:08:09 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 27, 2017, 02:36:56 PM
Quote from: I-39 on June 24, 2017, 02:36:52 PM
Does the average person even realize 110 exists? I don't think there really is any benefit to it. Most people want to take Interstates, so they will take I-55/72/US 36 or I-55/70 to get to Kansas City. The whole thing is kind of stupid if you ask me.
I never really thought Chicago to KC was a very popular connection anyways. It's certainly not like Chicago to NYC or Chicago to LA.

My ex has family in Chicago, Kansas City and Dallas.  When they wanted to save money going to Kansas City, they drove one time, and I believe they went I-55 to I-70.  I-88 was a non-starter because of the toll.

From here, I've found I-55 to I-72/US-36 and then down I-35 to be the least stressful of all the routes I've used.  I-70, to put it bluntly, sucks.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

I-39

Quote from: Brandon on June 27, 2017, 03:46:31 PM
Quote from: Finrod on June 27, 2017, 03:08:09 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 27, 2017, 02:36:56 PM
Quote from: I-39 on June 24, 2017, 02:36:52 PM
Does the average person even realize 110 exists? I don't think there really is any benefit to it. Most people want to take Interstates, so they will take I-55/72/US 36 or I-55/70 to get to Kansas City. The whole thing is kind of stupid if you ask me.
I never really thought Chicago to KC was a very popular connection anyways. It's certainly not like Chicago to NYC or Chicago to LA.

My ex has family in Chicago, Kansas City and Dallas.  When they wanted to save money going to Kansas City, they drove one time, and I believe they went I-55 to I-70.  I-88 was a non-starter because of the toll.

From here, I've found I-55 to I-72/US-36 and then down I-35 to be the least stressful of all the routes I've used.  I-70, to put it bluntly, sucks.

Even with I-70 being a controlled-access freeway vs. the US 36 expressway with at-grade intersections? How fast can you go on US 36?

Brandon

Quote from: I-39 on June 27, 2017, 06:11:45 PM
Quote from: Brandon on June 27, 2017, 03:46:31 PM
Quote from: Finrod on June 27, 2017, 03:08:09 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 27, 2017, 02:36:56 PM
Quote from: I-39 on June 24, 2017, 02:36:52 PM
Does the average person even realize 110 exists? I don't think there really is any benefit to it. Most people want to take Interstates, so they will take I-55/72/US 36 or I-55/70 to get to Kansas City. The whole thing is kind of stupid if you ask me.
I never really thought Chicago to KC was a very popular connection anyways. It's certainly not like Chicago to NYC or Chicago to LA.

My ex has family in Chicago, Kansas City and Dallas.  When they wanted to save money going to Kansas City, they drove one time, and I believe they went I-55 to I-70.  I-88 was a non-starter because of the toll.

From here, I've found I-55 to I-72/US-36 and then down I-35 to be the least stressful of all the routes I've used.  I-70, to put it bluntly, sucks.

Even with I-70 being a controlled-access freeway vs. the US 36 expressway with at-grade intersections? How fast can you go on US 36?

The limit is 65, but it's easy to do 70-75 with little trouble.  The only traffic light is at I-35, and the busier roads US-36 crosses have interchanges.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

I-39

Quote from: Brandon on June 27, 2017, 07:05:08 PM
Quote from: I-39 on June 27, 2017, 06:11:45 PM
Quote from: Brandon on June 27, 2017, 03:46:31 PM
Quote from: Finrod on June 27, 2017, 03:08:09 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 27, 2017, 02:36:56 PM
Quote from: I-39 on June 24, 2017, 02:36:52 PM
Does the average person even realize 110 exists? I don't think there really is any benefit to it. Most people want to take Interstates, so they will take I-55/72/US 36 or I-55/70 to get to Kansas City. The whole thing is kind of stupid if you ask me.
I never really thought Chicago to KC was a very popular connection anyways. It's certainly not like Chicago to NYC or Chicago to LA.

My ex has family in Chicago, Kansas City and Dallas.  When they wanted to save money going to Kansas City, they drove one time, and I believe they went I-55 to I-70.  I-88 was a non-starter because of the toll.

From here, I've found I-55 to I-72/US-36 and then down I-35 to be the least stressful of all the routes I've used.  I-70, to put it bluntly, sucks.

Even with I-70 being a controlled-access freeway vs. the US 36 expressway with at-grade intersections? How fast can you go on US 36?

The limit is 65, but it's easy to do 70-75 with little trouble.  The only traffic light is at I-35, and the busier roads US-36 crosses have interchanges.

Interesting. I bet it gets more traffic when I-70 eventually undergoes reconstruction.

Brandon

Well, today is it.  We'll see if IDOT can continue to pay contractors to do road work, or if they just stop dead at midnight.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

triplemultiplex

The outcome could affect my own schedule in the coming month.  My employer has an active contract with IDOT so we've had to plan contingencies for their budget impasse.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

Revive 755

Quote from: inkyatari on June 20, 2017, 09:25:58 AM
Forgottonia wouldn't stop complaining about the lack of state funds used in the area.

The push from the towns along the IL 336 corridor appear to be why IL 336 managed to be one of the supplemental freeway corridors that managed to be mostly built in some form.


And now for a couple tidbits based on the old EIS's for I-155:

* The corridor would have been built sooner had the original EIS survived a court challenge

* One of the reasons the corridor was built as a full freeway was due to the number of trucks expected to use the corridor as a connector between I-74 and I-55.  Also, one of the later EIS's indicates that most of the corridor was going to need to be a freeway (particularly the section near I-74), plus the section for the Mackinaw River Bridge replacement had been built as a freeway, so it was decide to built the whole corridor as a freeway the first time around.




I'm also wondering if the expressway-like sections of US 66 across Illinois had a bad safety record, which lead to a dislike of expressways in Illinois for a bit compared to full freeways.

Rick Powell

Quote from: Revive 755 on July 08, 2017, 08:29:19 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on June 20, 2017, 09:25:58 AM
Forgottonia wouldn't stop complaining about the lack of state funds used in the area.

The push from the towns along the IL 336 corridor appear to be why IL 336 managed to be one of the supplemental freeway corridors that managed to be mostly built in some form.


And now for a couple tidbits based on the old EIS's for I-155:

* The corridor would have been built sooner had the original EIS survived a court challenge

* One of the reasons the corridor was built as a full freeway was due to the number of trucks expected to use the corridor as a connector between I-74 and I-55.  Also, one of the later EIS's indicates that most of the corridor was going to need to be a freeway (particularly the section near I-74), plus the section for the Mackinaw River Bridge replacement had been built as a freeway, so it was decide to built the whole corridor as a freeway the first time around.




I'm also wondering if the expressway-like sections of US 66 across Illinois had a bad safety record, which lead to a dislike of expressways in Illinois for a bit compared to full freeways.

As a former IDOT technician who worked on the original construction of I-55, the one we always heard about was the traffic signal at US66 and IL-47 at Dwight. First signalized intersection south of Chicago, and lots of stories about bad wrecks and fatalities. My dad (who also worked at IDOT) rebuilt a railroad grade crossing at Chenoa before I-55 was opened and a truck ran the barricade and messed everything up (I think the driver survived).

Lyon Wonder

Quote from: Revive 755 on July 08, 2017, 08:29:19 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on June 20, 2017, 09:25:58 AM
Forgottonia wouldn't stop complaining about the lack of state funds used in the area.

The push from the towns along the IL 336 corridor appear to be why IL 336 managed to be one of the supplemental freeway corridors that managed to be mostly built in some form.


And now for a couple tidbits based on the old EIS's for I-155:

* The corridor would have been built sooner had the original EIS survived a court challenge

* One of the reasons the corridor was built as a full freeway was due to the number of trucks expected to use the corridor as a connector between I-74 and I-55.  Also, one of the later EIS's indicates that most of the corridor was going to need to be a freeway (particularly the section near I-74), plus the section for the Mackinaw River Bridge replacement had been built as a freeway, so it was decide to built the whole corridor as a freeway the first time around.




I'm also wondering if the expressway-like sections of US 66 across Illinois had a bad safety record, which lead to a dislike of expressways in Illinois for a bit compared to full freeways.

Then, after completing most of the interstates, IDOT went on to upgrade US 51 from Decatur to Bloomington into a 4 lane divided expressway complete with at-grade intersections with other state highways and an at-grade railroad crossing too. I guess IDOT thought the corridor from Decatur to Bloomington wasn't as important as what became I-39 from Normal to Rockford.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Lyon Wonder on July 16, 2017, 09:05:09 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 08, 2017, 08:29:19 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on June 20, 2017, 09:25:58 AM
Forgottonia wouldn't stop complaining about the lack of state funds used in the area.

The push from the towns along the IL 336 corridor appear to be why IL 336 managed to be one of the supplemental freeway corridors that managed to be mostly built in some form.


And now for a couple tidbits based on the old EIS's for I-155:

* The corridor would have been built sooner had the original EIS survived a court challenge

* One of the reasons the corridor was built as a full freeway was due to the number of trucks expected to use the corridor as a connector between I-74 and I-55.  Also, one of the later EIS's indicates that most of the corridor was going to need to be a freeway (particularly the section near I-74), plus the section for the Mackinaw River Bridge replacement had been built as a freeway, so it was decide to built the whole corridor as a freeway the first time around.




I'm also wondering if the expressway-like sections of US 66 across Illinois had a bad safety record, which lead to a dislike of expressways in Illinois for a bit compared to full freeways.

Then, after completing most of the interstates, IDOT went on to upgrade US 51 from Decatur to Bloomington into a 4 lane divided expressway complete with at-grade intersections with other state highways and an at-grade railroad crossing too. I guess IDOT thought the corridor from Decatur to Bloomington wasn't as important as what became I-39 from Normal to Rockford.


Because it isn't?

paulthemapguy

All this talk of "Forgottonia" has gotten me thinking...Is this just an Illinois-specific thing?  Are there regions in other states that have whined equally loudly about the lack of state funds applied to their region?  And then the DOT responded and gave them a useless expressway without any regard for logistics?
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Brandon

Quote from: paulthemapguy on July 18, 2017, 11:29:39 AM
All this talk of "Forgottonia" has gotten me thinking...Is this just an Illinois-specific thing?  Are there regions in other states that have whined equally loudly about the lack of state funds applied to their region?  And then the DOT responded and gave them a useless expressway without any regard for logistics?

See:"Ada, Oklahoma" in the Central States section.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

silverback1065

Quote from: Brandon on July 18, 2017, 01:45:19 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on July 18, 2017, 11:29:39 AM
All this talk of "Forgottonia" has gotten me thinking...Is this just an Illinois-specific thing?  Are there regions in other states that have whined equally loudly about the lack of state funds applied to their region?  And then the DOT responded and gave them a useless expressway without any regard for logistics?

See:"Ada, Oklahoma" in the Central States section.
:-D that stupid 2 lane toll road. what the hell were they thinking?  also, click on the city when you're on google maps, it has bizarre boarders, those can't be right can they?

GeekJedi

Quote from: inkyatari on June 20, 2017, 09:25:58 AM
Quote from: I-39 on June 18, 2017, 08:39:50 PM

Of course, if they hadn't wasted tons of $$$ on the Illinois 336 corridor, they just might have been able to four lane US 67 between Jacksonville and Macomb by now.

Forgottonia wouldn't stop complaining about the lack of state funds used in the area.

Speaking of "Forgottonia's", how's the US 20 Galena bypass coming along?  :spin:
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"

triplemultiplex

"Forgottonia" = low population area that wants more than its fair share of resources.  Apparently, induced demand is a fallacy in the suburbs, but sound government policy in the sticks.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

rte66man

Quote from: silverback1065 on July 18, 2017, 02:05:49 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 18, 2017, 01:45:19 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on July 18, 2017, 11:29:39 AM
All this talk of "Forgottonia" has gotten me thinking...Is this just an Illinois-specific thing?  Are there regions in other states that have whined equally loudly about the lack of state funds applied to their region?  And then the DOT responded and gave them a useless expressway without any regard for logistics?

See:"Ada, Oklahoma" in the Central States section.
:-D that stupid 2 lane toll road. what the hell were they thinking?  also, click on the city when you're on google maps, it has bizarre boarders, those can't be right can they?

That true for most of OK.  The rural folks are always whining about OKC and Tulsa getting all the dollars while Tulsa whines about OKC getting all the dollars.

Not that OTA gave the Chickasaw to ODOT, there is no change of it ever:
(1) - getting four laned from Roff to Sulphur, or
(2) - getting extended to I-35 at the Turner Falls exit.
since those were the original goals when the road was first built.  As it is, OK1 is an abomination from Roff to Ada.
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

skluth

Quote from: paulthemapguy on July 18, 2017, 11:29:39 AM
All this talk of "Forgottonia" has gotten me thinking...Is this just an Illinois-specific thing?  Are there regions in other states that have whined equally loudly about the lack of state funds applied to their region?  And then the DOT responded and gave them a useless expressway without any regard for logistics?

It seems to be pretty common in the Midwest. I grew up in Wisconsin and you hear the same complaints NW of a line from Green Bay to Madison. The Michigan UP and a few of the northern "mitten" counties at one time wanted to separate from the rest of the state and have their own state of Superior, which would be more a welfare state than West Virginia. I live in Missouri now and I hear the same complaints about areas outside of KC and STL, even Springfield which gets plenty of support. Illinois south of I-70 also complains about their state's domination by the Chicago region. I don't know if this is true in other parts of the country, but I can imagine it in Georgia, Oregon, and other states with a dominant economic region.

silverback1065

Quote from: skluth on July 19, 2017, 11:28:30 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on July 18, 2017, 11:29:39 AM
All this talk of "Forgottonia" has gotten me thinking...Is this just an Illinois-specific thing?  Are there regions in other states that have whined equally loudly about the lack of state funds applied to their region?  And then the DOT responded and gave them a useless expressway without any regard for logistics?

It seems to be pretty common in the Midwest. I grew up in Wisconsin and you hear the same complaints NW of a line from Green Bay to Madison. The Michigan UP and a few of the northern "mitten" counties at one time wanted to separate from the rest of the state and have their own state of Superior, which would be more a welfare state than West Virginia. I live in Missouri now and I hear the same complaints about areas outside of KC and STL, even Springfield which gets plenty of support. Illinois south of I-70 also complains about their state's domination by the Chicago region. I don't know if this is true in other parts of the country, but I can imagine it in Georgia, Oregon, and other states with a dominant economic region.

i feel like this is true for every state.  here in indiana, the government pretends NW indiana doesn't exist



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