Virginia

[Rothman]

If someone is coming from the west and wants to connect to one of the major cities in the Northeast Corridor, guess what highway they are going to take.... I-81. Granted I don't have experience with I-81 in VA, but I have driven the road further north in PA and its pretty damned busy. One of the highways that splits off and heads east with a bulk of the freight traffic is I-78 and nobody is going to say that isn't a busy/major trucking route!

And I'm also on this side. I'm not the only person I know who will use I-81 from NC to NJ/NY/New England (via 78-287 or 84) to avoid I-95.

I think one's origin/destination matters as well as one being willing to spend more hours bypassing than they would just staying on I-95.

NC is a big place.  Starting off in the Outer Banks and heading out to I-81 is pretty severe.

[Alps]

If someone is coming from the west and wants to connect to one of the major cities in the Northeast Corridor, guess what highway they are going to take.... I-81. Granted I don't have experience with I-81 in VA, but I have driven the road further north in PA and its pretty damned busy. One of the highways that splits off and heads east with a bulk of the freight traffic is I-78 and nobody is going to say that isn't a busy/major trucking route!

And I'm also on this side. I'm not the only person I know who will use I-81 from NC to NJ/NY/New England (via 78-287 or 84) to avoid I-95.

I think one's origin/destination matters as well as one being willing to spend more hours bypassing than they would just staying on I-95.

NC is a big place.  Starting off in the Outer Banks and heading out to I-81 is pretty severe.

It is barely longer for me to go - let's just say I-287, I-78, I-81, I-77 from CT to Charlotte vs. I-95. So yes it depends.

[1995hoo]

From Fairfax County I've used the I-66 to I-81 to I-77 route to get to Charlotte two times, both of them because I was bored with the I-95 to I-85 route. Both times I-77 was worse than I-81 was, but both times that was also because of big wrecks (and, the first time, it was also because I was stupid and didn't account for the fact that the football game for which I was heading to Charlotte was against West Virginia, so seemingly the entire population of said state was on I-77 giving everyone from Virginia the finger, throwing debris out the window at us, etc.). Nowadays I'd use US-29 to Greensboro instead. It's the opposite of both Interstates, at least once you're south of I-64. Next to nobody on the road.

Most people I know actively avoid I-81 when giving directions and will say, when asked, that I-81 may look faster but is just plain unpleasant to drive.

[VTGoose]

From Fairfax County I've used the I-66 to I-81 to I-77 route to get to Charlotte two times, both of them because I was bored with the I-95 to I-85 route. Both times I-77 was worse than I-81 was, but both times that was also because of big wrecks (and, the first time, it was also because I was stupid and didn't account for the fact that the football game for which I was heading to Charlotte was against West Virginia, so seemingly the entire population of said state was on I-77 giving everyone from Virginia the finger, throwing debris out the window at us, etc.). Nowadays I'd use US-29 to Greensboro instead. It's the opposite of both Interstates, at least once you're south of I-64. Next to nobody on the road.

Most people I know actively avoid I-81 when giving directions and will say, when asked, that I-81 may look faster but is just plain unpleasant to drive.

I-77 south of I-81 is another Southwest Va. interstate that needs some love. At a minimum, there are several sections (especially southbound) that need a truck-climbing lane. Two trucks micro-passing can back up traffic for a mile. I-77 in North Carolina is a whole 'nother thing. Apparently there is something in the state constitution that requires some portion of the highway to be under construction at all times. There have been multiple sections where the pavement was replaced down to the sub-base, then there was the years of construction around Charlotte to add the express lanes. Current fun is at Statesville with the massive rebuild of the I-40 interchange and [needed] addition of a third lane south of I-40 through Statesville.

I-81 is a schizophrenic highway -- sometimes even on the same day. At times it behaves and traffic moves right along. Other days can see multiple wrecks with long tie-ups because there is no good alternative way around them. I've driven in the middle of a slug of traffic and a few miles down the road am almost alone on the highway. It is also a bit seasonal, with flatland tourists who don't know what to do when faced with the up-and-down hills, plus the mess at Thanksgiving when all the college students are going home at the same time and returning at the same time.

Bruce in Blacksburg

[74/171FAN]

I-81 is a schizophrenic highway -- sometimes even on the same day. At times it behaves and traffic moves right along. Other days can see multiple wrecks with long tie-ups because there is no good alternative way around them. I've driven in the middle of a slug of traffic and a few miles down the road am almost alone on the highway. It is also a bit seasonal, with flatland tourists who don't know what to do when faced with the up-and-down hills, plus the mess at Thanksgiving when all the college students are going home at the same time and returning at the same time.

Virginia Tech has historically been off the entire Thanksgiving week so at least there is some discrepancy in regard to the college students leaving, but they do all return at the same time.

[1995hoo]

....

I-81 is a schizophrenic highway -- sometimes even on the same day. At times it behaves and traffic moves right along. ....

I think in some ways it's just a crapshoot as to what other traffic you happen to be near on the road. I've had perfectly pleasant trips on I-81 when I've managed to travel between the "clumps" of traffic that result from the trucks. The trick there, I think, is to try to adjust your speed to avoid catching the clump ahead of you (even if doing so means perhaps going a bit slower than you might prefer) while not going too slowly to allow yourself to be caught by the clump behind you. But sometimes you just plain can't avoid it and then you almost always wind up getting stuck.

The level of stupidity displayed by some car drivers never ceases to make me shake my head. I recall one trip on I-81 when we were descending one of the steeper grades and some woman in a Civic pulled out in to pass a truck, but in doing so she pulled in front of another truck in the left lane that was going a lot faster than she was, and she didn't speed up. If there's anywhere I will always try to avoid pulling in front of a truck, it's on a significant downhill grade. Thankfully, the faster truck driver was able to avoid a collision and was also able to avoid having to take to the shoulder. I have no doubt that sort of thing is one of the more common reasons for the big wrecks of the sort you mention in the part of your comment that I've omitted in the quote above.

[hbelkins]

If someone is coming from the west and wants to connect to one of the major cities in the Northeast Corridor, guess what highway they are going to take.... I-81. Granted I don't have experience with I-81 in VA, but I have driven the road further north in PA and its pretty damned busy. One of the highways that splits off and heads east with a bulk of the freight traffic is I-78 and nobody is going to say that isn't a busy/major trucking route!

And I'm also on this side. I'm not the only person I know who will use I-81 from NC to NJ/NY/New England (via 78-287 or 84) to avoid I-95.

I think one's origin/destination matters as well as one being willing to spend more hours bypassing than they would just staying on I-95.

NC is a big place.  Starting off in the Outer Banks and heading out to I-81 is pretty severe.

It is barely longer for me to go - let's just say I-287, I-78, I-81, I-77 from CT to Charlotte vs. I-95. So yes it depends.

From Fairfax County I've used the I-66 to I-81 to I-77 route to get to Charlotte two times, both of them because I was bored with the I-95 to I-85 route. Both times I-77 was worse than I-81 was, but both times that was also because of big wrecks (and, the first time, it was also because I was stupid and didn't account for the fact that the football game for which I was heading to Charlotte was against West Virginia, so seemingly the entire population of said state was on I-77 giving everyone from Virginia the finger, throwing debris out the window at us, etc.). Nowadays I'd use US-29 to Greensboro instead. It's the opposite of both Interstates, at least once you're south of I-64. Next to nobody on the road.

Most people I know actively avoid I-81 when giving directions and will say, when asked, that I-81 may look faster but is just plain unpleasant to drive.

All good points. I would certainly consider US 29 as a viable alternative route from the DC area to the Triad or beyond, given that I prefer surface routes to interstates. And a route involving I-81 and I-77 to Charlotte is equivalent to I-95 and I-85.

The Outer Banks? This is where US 13/CBBT is handy for traffic from Wilmington/Philly/NJ/NYC. Going to Washington or Baltimore? US 17 to US 301 works.

There are instances where I-81 might be a good alternative to I-95, depending on your origin and destination. But for local or regional traffic, it makes no sense. If I'm in Charleston or Savannah and I want to drive to NYC, I doubt very seriously that I'm going to use any part of I-81. And definitely not if I'm in Rocky Mount and trying to get to Baltimore.

[Takumi]

The only time I've used 81 as an alternative to 95 was at the peak of Springfield Interchange construction 20 years ago, going to Harrisburg. 95 to 17 to 66 to 81.

[bluecountry]

Moreover, many use 81 to avoid 95, if 95 were the way it should be then fewer would be on 81.

No they don't. I-81 is NOT an alternate route for I-95. It's too far out of the way and serves different places. If 95 is congested, you won't save any time and will spend more in gas trying to find a route over to 81 and then making your way back to 95.

The real alternative to 95 in that area is US 301. A secondary alternate is US 13 and the CBBT.

And this whole argument reeks of something I hate. The "haves" continue to benefit while the "have-nots" are ignored. There's been all kinds of money pumped in to work on 95 from Fredericksburg north to solve congestion issues. And here you are wanting to spend even more on that road when there are definite needs elsewhere, 81 being the most glaring of them. Keep throwing money at NOVA and I-95 and just let I-81 be a complete mess with micropassing trucks, short acceleration lanes, and all the other issues it has.

We get the same thing in Kentucky. All kinds of money being spent in Louisville and northern Kentucky and you can't even get to some places without going way out of your way, or taking a torturous two-lane mountain route. Draw a straight line from Harlan to Richmond or Lexington, and then look at what the best, most modern route is.

You are wrong.
Ask anybody from NY/NE going long distance to NC and points south, like FL.  They absolutely use I-81 to avoid the 95 BS in VA.

many use 81 to avoid 95

This may be one of the most asinine things I've ever seen on this forum.

Clearly you don't venture much beyond the Mason-Dixon line.

[bluecountry]

And this whole argument reeks of something I hate. The "haves" continue to benefit while the "have-nots" are ignored. There's been all kinds of money pumped in to work on 95 from Fredericksburg north to solve congestion issues. And here you are wanting to spend even more on that road when there are definite needs elsewhere, 81 being the most glaring of them. Keep throwing money at NOVA and I-95 and just let I-81 be a complete mess with micropassing trucks, short acceleration lanes, and all the other issues it has.

We get the same thing in Kentucky. All kinds of money being spent in Louisville and northern Kentucky and you can't even get to some places without going way out of your way, or taking a torturous two-lane mountain route. Draw a straight line from Harlan to Richmond or Lexington, and then look at what the best, most modern route is.

This kind of thinking can be dangerous, though, and it is often a catch-22.  Yes, the more rural areas certainly have needs, and the needs along I-81 have been well documented.  But on the flip side, the "haves" (as you put it) are often the economic engines that support the rest of the state...Fairfax County alone produces ~15% of state sales tax and ~20% of state income tax revenue for Virginia.  Traffic congestion can and does negatively impact that economic engine.

Yea, Bruce wants to spite the hand that feeds him, and the country.

[1995hoo]

"You're wrong because I say you're wrong" is not a convincing style of argument.

As I said earlier, you're one of those people who digs in your heels and acts as though your opinion is fact and anyone who dares disagree is uninformed. You still haven't even attempted to rebut that statement; all you've done is reinforce its accuracy.

[VTGoose]

"You're wrong because I say you're wrong" is not a convincing style of argument.

As I said earlier, you're one of those people who digs in your heels and acts as though your opinion is fact and anyone who dares disagree is uninformed. You still haven't even attempted to rebut that statement; all you've done is reinforce its accuracy.

Cheeky little guy, isn't he? He just told hbelkins he is wrong -- not someone to pick a fight with. I've "known" hbelkins since misc.transport.road days and I respect his comments and opinion. I wonder where on Goggle Maps one finds details about New Yorkers using I-81 to avoid I-95?

[hbelkins]

"You're wrong because I say you're wrong" is not a convincing style of argument.

As I said earlier, you're one of those people who digs in your heels and acts as though your opinion is fact and anyone who dares disagree is uninformed. You still haven't even attempted to rebut that statement; all you've done is reinforce its accuracy.

Cheeky little guy, isn't he? He just told hbelkins he is wrong -- not someone to pick a fight with. I've "known" hbelkins since misc.transport.road days and I respect his comments and opinion. I wonder where on Goggle Maps one finds details about New Yorkers using I-81 to avoid I-95?

And even had lunch with you (and Rush Wickes) when I spent a week in Blacksburg for a training session back in 2003.

He said ask "anybody." Well, Steve (from NJ but might as well be the metro NYC area) said he uses I-81 if he's going to specific places in NC, but who in general would go that far out of their way if they were going to, say, Jacksonville? Those folks are more likely to use US 13 or US 301.

[1995hoo]

Based on my observations over the years, I think if you ask "anybody," the vast majority won't know any route other than the immediate I-95 corridor. People always used to be astonished when the Washington Post's Dr. Gridlock ran a column discussing the various alternate routes to New York, including heading to Harrisburg and using I-78 (which, I guess, does involve a short distance on I-81, so there you go). People didn't know those other routes existed. That doesn't surprise me, either. Consider how many people think the New Jersey Turnpike is I-95 for its full length.

With that said, sometime I might like to use the I-81/I-26 combination on a trip to or from Florida because I understand the highway between Asheville and I-81 is extremely scenic. But the extra time and distance makes it impractical, especially if Ms1995hoo is with me (she would be exceptionally vocal about it). I do get it on a southbound trip–it's 380 miles to the Tennessee state line via I-81 versus 173 miles via I-95 (a little more if we take I-295 around Richmond). I understand why mentally it feels like you're not getting anywhere if you're still in Virginia over five hours after leaving home when normally you've reached North Carolina about two and a half hours after leaving.

Edited to add: To be clear, in the scenario posed in that second paragraph, it's not that I would "like" to use I-81 so much as it is that I want to drive that segment of I-26 and I-81 is by far the most practical route to use between here and there–though I might cut across to or from US-29 either from Roanoke/Lynchburg on US-460 or further north on I-64.

[AlexandriaVA]

because I understand the highway between Asheville and I-81 is extremely scenic.

It is, although I wouldn't want to it in icy or snowy conditions (even rain). I found it comparable to some of the very steep stretches of I-68, such as right after Sideling Hill.

[AlexandriaVA]

This is getting off topic, but I'm reminded of an article I read a number of years back talking about how New Yorkers knew their "regular" subway route pretty well, but once it came time to going somewhere else, or trying an alternate route (if relevant), their knowledge and confidence dropped off considerably. Mind you that this included regular riders, not first-time tourists.

I think it speaks to the fact that people know "their" route, particularly if they picked it up from their youth, or word-of-mouth. I still remember routes that we took to family in western and eastern PA growing up, and my "mental GPS" still reverts to those, unless I find objective reasons to divert from it.

Plus, throw in the fact that many people simply wouldn't think to consider alternate routes unless explicitly advised to do so (much less consider alternate routes simply for it being "scenic" or "different" or anything else).

[1995hoo]

This discussion made me curious about travel time. It generally takes us about ten hours of driving, 11 hours total, to go the 690 miles from home to the JAX Airport exit in Florida using I-95 the whole way except for around Richmond and Petersburg (I-295 there). So I decided to compare the travel time to the same location if I used I-66 west to I-81.

Via I-81 to I-77 to I-26 near Columbia, picking up I-95 directly from I-26 in South Carolina, Google Maps quotes 11:50 of driving time (without stops), 795 miles. That's not necessarily horrible, but it's not really any better as to travel time than taking US-29 to Greensboro and then dropping south via Rockingham and Cheraw to pick up I-95 at Florence, and the US-29 route is a far more pleasant drive than I-81 is.

Via I-81 to I-26, again picking up I-95 directly from I-26 in South Carolina, Google Maps estimates 13:45 of driving time (without stops), 902 miles.

If I drag the route to use I-75 in Tennessee (I-81 to I-40 to I-75), Google has me head to Macon, then onto I-16 and then various state and US highways to pick up I-95 near Brunswick, Georgia. Total driving time of 15:31 (without stops), 1019 miles.

Not hard at all to see why, regardless of what bluecountry purports to think, I-81 is not a reasonable alternative to I-95 for a trip to Florida. It just plain goes too far west. Even if I were headed to Florida's west coast, I-81 is still out of the way.

[AlexandriaVA]

I think it may have been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, but I suppose the main advantage would be from motorists who are already west of I-81, and can use it to find their nearest connector to shoot east. But at that point, that isn't even really a shortcut or secret route.

It's probably fair to concede, however, that I-81 could be a useful, limited contingency route in lieu of I-95. I'm thinking in instance of hurricanes or a HAZMAT issue near one of the coastal ports, where major stretches of the highway are flat-out shut down.

Obviously that runs into the issue of
1) Bad weather could also affect I-81 itself
2) I-81 could not absorb nearly all of I-95's throughput
3) There are alternatives to I-95 itself. Not just US-1/13/301, but also regional bypasses, such as the B-W Parkway, the NYC area Parkways, etc, that could all be strung together.

I will say that - I went up to Vermont the other week, and I had initially figured I would use I-81 to both shunpike and avoid traffic, but at the last second I topped off my EZ-Pass and did the gauntlet up the NJ Turnpike and NYS Thruway. I really didn't hit anything bad, and I'm now concluding that my tolls helped pay for a faster trip.

EDIT: I finally bothered to pull up a map, and really once you get to I-64 in VA, and points south, the two Interstates really start to diverge. It gets increasingly hard to justify the routing the further south you go. Whereas a truck taking on cargo at the port of Baltimore only needs to go about 75 miles west to pick up I-81.

[VTGoose]

This discussion made me curious about travel time. It generally takes us about ten hours of driving, 11 hours total, to go the 690 miles from home to the JAX Airport exit in Florida using I-95 the whole way except for around Richmond and Petersburg (I-295 there). So I decided to compare the travel time to the same location if I used I-66 west to I-81.

Via I-81 to I-77 to I-26 near Columbia, picking up I-95 directly from I-26 in South Carolina, Google Maps quotes 11:50 of driving time (without stops), 795 miles. That's not necessarily horrible, but it's not really any better as to travel time than taking US-29 to Greensboro and then dropping south via Rockingham and Cheraw to pick up I-95 at Florence, and the US-29 route is a far more pleasant drive than I-81 is.

Via I-81 to I-26, again picking up I-95 directly from I-26 in South Carolina, Google Maps estimates 13:45 of driving time (without stops), 902 miles.

If I drag the route to use I-75 in Tennessee (I-81 to I-40 to I-75), Google has me head to Macon, then onto I-16 and then various state and US highways to pick up I-95 near Brunswick, Georgia. Total driving time of 15:31 (without stops), 1019 miles.

Not hard at all to see why, regardless of what bluecountry purports to think, I-81 is not a reasonable alternative to I-95 for a trip to Florida. It just plain goes too far west. Even if I were headed to Florida's west coast, I-81 is still out of the way.

Getting to the west coast of Florida is a challenge for anyone east of Atlanta. There is no good way to get there from the north. For 5 years we traveled to Apollo Beach (southeast of Tampa right off I-75), then shifted to St. Petersburg in December when the kids moved back there from Baton Rouge. The most direct route (at least for us on the good side of the state) is I-81 to I-77 to Columbia, then the slog down I-26 and I-95 through S. Carolina and into Georgia where 95 opens up into three lanes. After trying I-4 a couple of times in both directions (and giving up on that route), we were routed on I-295 to I-10 to U.S. 301 at Baldwin to run south to Ocala and I-75. On a whim coming home on trip, I stayed on U.S. 301 and discovered that Google/Garmin was missing a great route. It is a wide-open 4-lane highway that runs right to I-95 at Yulee and avoids Jacksonville.

Despite what Google and Garmin (the Honda nav system) say, it is near impossible to complete the trip in the 12 hours both systems claim -- mainly due to traffic. The only time in all our travels that we did the trip in 11:45 was two years ago returning home after our grandson was born. The pandemic lockdown had just kicked in so on that Sunday we cruised up I-4 and the rest of the route with little to no traffic. Otherwise it is 14 hours (including stops) and has been longer due to standstill traffic in South Carolina. I contend that I-77 needs to be extended south, running concurrent with I-20 from Columbia to Augusta, then cutting south to Valdosta, Ga. and I-75. But Georgia seems to be stuck on adding more lanes to "fix" Atlanta and doesn't seem to want to offer better alternative.

[AlexandriaVA]

An 8-hour drive time itinerary is really 9 for me (see below). 10 hours would probably stretch to 11.5. I think anything more than that is stretching the bounds of reasonability.

2 hours
[5 minute bathroom and stretch break]
2 hours
[30 minutes for lunch]
2 hours
[5 minute break]
2 hours
[20+ minutes for traffic, contingencies, etc]

[froggie]

Ask anybody from NY/NE going long distance to NC and points south, like FL.  They absolutely use I-81 to avoid the 95 BS in VA.

I asked my wife, who last year went from VT down to FL and back.  Took I-95.  Guess where she had problems (hint:  it *WASN'T* VA)

I will say that - I went up to Vermont the other week, and I had initially figured I would use I-81 to both shunpike and avoid traffic, but at the last second I topped off my EZ-Pass and did the gauntlet up the NJ Turnpike and NYS Thruway. I really didn't hit anything bad, and I'm now concluding that my tolls helped pay for a faster trip.

My preferred route from DC to Vermont went by way of Baltimore-York-Lancaster-Redding-Allentown-Delaware Water Gap-Newburgh-Albany.  If I didn't feel like slogging along 209 between Stroudsburg and Milford I'd take 78-287.  Given that most (if not all) of the passing zones on 209 no longer exist and there's no longer a good connection between River Rd and 209 (I'd use River Rd to avoid the signals and tourist traffic on 209 between Stroudsburg and Bushkill), I'd probably stick with the Interstates now.

But never touched 81.  No need to when there are adequate 4-lane or mostly-4-lane corridors between 81 and 95.

[sprjus4]

Ask anybody from NY/NE going long distance to NC and points south, like FL.  They absolutely use I-81 to avoid the 95 BS in VA.

I asked my wife, who last year went from VT down to FL and back.  Took I-95.  Guess where she had problems (hint:  it *WASN'T* VA)

When did she go through DC? Because while yes there are other priorities than I-95, I-95 is definitely not perfect, especially south of the Beltway.

[1995hoo]

Back in 2019 when we took a trip north, our first overnight stop was in Schenectady and I took US-50 over the Bay Bridge, US-301 north to DE-1, I-95 north to I-476, I-476 to I-81, and I-81 to I-88 up to Schenectady. The main reasons for that route were to drive the new US-301 in Delaware, to drive the Northeast Extension since I'd previously used only a small piece of its southern end, and to clinch I-88 because I'd never used it before. Aside from a slowdown on I-95 in Pennsylvania and some washboard pavement on I-88, it was an excellent route and I would use that route if we were to head that way again, tolls notwithstanding. The Northeast Extension was empty and quiet for a lot of the drive, much more enjoyable than I-81 between Harrisburg and Scranton.

[bluecountry]

That's great.  As somebody from NYC/NE I can tell you many many do take 81 to avoid 95 when going to the Carolina's and FL, this is just a fact.
This is also tangential to what was the main subject, that I-95 in Northern VA and Fredericksburg is wholly inadequate, that the current improvements are laughably insufficient, and that this road needs to given the proper width that it warrants given:
-It is the only interstate N-S route for the DC to Northeast and DC to FL/SE
-That the outer beltway bypass was never built, nor was an I-97 extension

The traffic is arguably worse on Saturdays and Sundays in this corridor, and it is frustrating when you see a huge median and both sides of the road filled with trees; this is not like southern CT where it is going through Stamford/Norwalk/the Gold Coast, the room is there.

VT Goose was making the old 'there are other parts of VA with issues, 95 has had enough, time for us to get our share,' and I really object to that kind of backwards thinking.

Bottom line, 95 sucks in Northern VA, and we need a real improvement, not the 'joke' of one way HOT lanes, a small auxiliary 4th lane to the PWC PKWY SB, and the local/thru that ends before Route 1 with no direct exit to Rt 17.  That is such a joke.

95 needs:
1.  4 GP lanes from the Beltway to 234
2.  Bi-directional 3 HOT lanes from the Beltway to Rt 610
3.  The local/thru configuration to extend to exit 126 with the following:
       A.  Exit 130 being able to access both the local and thru
       B.  Exit 126 being split into
                 i. Exit C for access from 95 NB/SB to Rt 1 SB
                ii. Exit B for access from 95 NB/SB to Rt 1 N
                iii. Exit A for access from 95 NB/SB to Rt 17S

And this needs to be the top priority statewide.  NJ did it right with the NJTP, and VA must as well.
I would go further and argue (knowing this is so so far fetched) that

1. From exit 126 to 295, 95 should be 4 GP in each direction, and if needed, tolled. 
I would rather it be 4 GP with tolls then have 3 GP free.
You could make this argument that this stretch is very rural, long distance traffic not unlike Central NJ, so this would be equity.
Moreover, there is an alternate with Rt 1.

I mean, the Mass Pike is tolled in a similar stretch from 84 to 495, and they have likewise Rt 20.
Va needs a real solution, and this takes importance over SW VA, I don't believe in 'NOVA has gotten their spoils, time for us to get ours,' sorry no.  It's what is the biggest priority and that would be the economic engine and spine of Megalopolis.  Not fringe Appalachia.

[VTGoose]

That's great.  As somebody from NYC/NE I can tell you many many do take 81 to avoid 95 when going to the Carolina's and FL, this is just a fact.

You have a valid citation for this "fact"? "Because I said so" isn't valid.

Va needs a real solution, and this takes importance over SW VA, I don't believe in 'NOVA has gotten their spoils, time for us to get ours,' sorry no.  It's what is the biggest priority and that would be the economic engine and spine of Megalopolis.  Not fringe Appalachia.

"fringe Appalachia"? Again, FU. Smarter people than you don't agree with this northern sentiment and set out a few years ago to fix things (just like they did for Tidewater, which you seem to ignore as another important part of the Commonwealth). Both areas are paying an additional gas tax with the funds going to fix problems on I-81 and in Tidewater. Given your rants, it seems this is a waste of money and all those funds should accrue to your pet hang-up, fixing I-95 to your standards. Like I said before, it's a good thing you aren't in charge.