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Extending I-45 to Oklahoma?

Started by US71, March 07, 2018, 08:56:54 PM

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Plutonic Panda

Quote from: 1 on November 26, 2018, 06:54:41 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 26, 2018, 04:50:06 PM
There should also be laws requiring speed limits to be set at the 85th percentile.

"I'll drive more slowly so that the speed limit will go down." And the inverse.
There should speed limit minimums(which I think there usually are). If you want to drive the minimum but do it in right lane.


intelati49

Quote from: 1 on November 26, 2018, 06:54:41 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 26, 2018, 04:50:06 PM
There should also be laws requiring speed limits to be set at the 85th percentile.

"I'll drive more slowly so that the speed limit will go down." And the inverse.

Ahh, my favorite ouroboros.  :pan:

Bobby5280

Quote from: Plutonic PandaThere should speed limit minimums(which I think there usually are). If you want to drive the minimum but do it in right lane.

Oklahoma does have a law for that on the books, passed just in the last year or so, IIRC. The law applies to divided highways, especially the Interstates and turnpikes. You can't camp out in the left lane driving at or below the speed limit blocking others from being able to pass in the left lane. It is a ticket-able offense all on its own without any other factors, such as expired tags or anything else.

Technically it's against the law to not drive with the flow of traffic, such as driving 25mph in a 45mph zone like I see all the freaking time here in Lawton along arterials such as Cache Road. Lawton has some of the most constipated slow drivers I've ever seen. They'll whip out in front of you without much warning and then go slooowwwwwwwww. Combine that with the dummies who can't leave their phones alone at a traffic signal, "oh don't worry about that green light; just keep up the road block until you finish your tweet."

I consider slow and inattentive drivers every bit as much a hazard (if not more so) as speeders. I have to get all Zen-like to keep from getting angry over it.

bugo

Oklahoma drivers are terrible in general The drivers here are the worst I've ever seen. They are slow and rude. They will cut across 3 lanes of traffic to get to an exit ramp. They park in the left lane at 10 under. They will pull right out in front of you on a two lane road and go 20 under, even if there is nothing behind you for a mile. They suck.

US71

Quote from: bugo on November 27, 2018, 07:39:04 AM
Oklahoma drivers are terrible in general The drivers here are the worst I've ever seen. They are slow and rude. They will cut across 3 lanes of traffic to get to an exit ramp. They park in the left lane at 10 under. They will pull right out in front of you on a two lane road and go 20 under, even if there is nothing behind you for a mile. They suck.

Sounds like I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

Bobby5280

I make jokes from time to time with local friends about a fictional organization called the "Obstructionist League of Drivers" or the "O.L.D." They have their early morning roll call at Leo and Ken's truck stop. They get their daily routes of which avenues to clog and exchange tips. "When making a left turn don't use your turn signal, or just use your right blinker and keep it blinking for the next 5 miles. Another useful tip: always drive with your brights on full blast. When other people flash their lights it just means they're saying hello."

Brian556

In cites, Oklahoma drivers are incredibly rude. I don't understand how they can drive that slow. In the country, the seem to drive correctly. On Interstates, they drive better than in other states, probably because OK installed the signs reminding them to not block the left lane

Bobby5280

It had to be 20 or 30 years since I first saw it, but Louie Anderson had a great stand-up comedy bit about slow drivers. IIRC, he was joking about his dad or grandfather driving really slow on purpose, referring to him as "the keeper of the speed." There's definitely a bunch of those here in this town.

sparker

^^^^^^^^
Around these parts, they're referred to as "road boulders". 

edwaleni

Quote from: sparker on November 29, 2018, 04:54:21 PM
^^^^^^^^
Around these parts, they're referred to as "road boulders".

A friend of mine went to Scandanavia on vacation and rented a Volvo to travel.

But he forgot about his lanes and drove the speed limit in the passing lane for about 20-25km.

People however are much more courteous there, no honking, no passing on the shoulder. After he finally saw the car behind him flash his lights, he pulled into the left lane. It is illegal to overtake in the left lane so everyone backed up behind him.

As everyone passed him they gave him a toot of the horn and waived their hands to him to say thanks.

The backup was 3km long!!

No drama. No videos to upload. Just a large quantity of patience.

kphoger

Quote from: edwaleni on December 04, 2018, 01:01:16 PM
As everyone passed him they gave him a toot of the horn and waived their hands to him to say thanks.

The backup was 3km long!!

No drama. No videos to upload. Just a large quantity of patience.

That explains Minnesota a lot.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

capt.ron

Quote from: bugo on November 27, 2018, 07:39:04 AM
Oklahoma drivers are terrible in general The drivers here are the worst I've ever seen. They are slow and rude. They will cut across 3 lanes of traffic to get to an exit ramp. They park in the left lane at 10 under. They will pull right out in front of you on a two lane road and go 20 under, even if there is nothing behind you for a mile. They suck.
"They park in the left lane at 10 under"
I concur! 9 times out of 10 when I see a slow driver on I-40 (esp. westbound, Little Rock westward), it has Oklahoma plates. Left lane? You bet!! And to add to the subject of slow traffic in the left lane in Arkansas, the Arkansas State Police only do a half hearted attempt to enforce the law "slow traffic keep right".
Getting back to the subject or I-45, It would make sense to at least extend it to the TX/OK boarder and then sign it as "future I-45" in OK via US 75 and US 69 until reaching I-40.

Road Hog

Quote from: capt.ron on December 29, 2018, 11:20:40 AM
Quote from: bugo on November 27, 2018, 07:39:04 AM
Oklahoma drivers are terrible in general The drivers here are the worst I've ever seen. They are slow and rude. They will cut across 3 lanes of traffic to get to an exit ramp. They park in the left lane at 10 under. They will pull right out in front of you on a two lane road and go 20 under, even if there is nothing behind you for a mile. They suck.
"They park in the left lane at 10 under"
I concur! 9 times out of 10 when I see a slow driver on I-40 (esp. westbound, Little Rock westward), it has Oklahoma plates. Left lane? You bet!! And to add to the subject of slow traffic in the left lane in Arkansas, the Arkansas State Police only do a half hearted attempt to enforce the law "slow traffic keep right".
Getting back to the subject or I-45, It would make sense to at least extend it to the TX/OK boarder and then sign it as "future I-45" in OK via US 75 and US 69 until reaching I-40.

I think once the Sherman upgrade is complete, you'll see a push to do exactly that, at least up to the US 69 junction just south of the bridge.

Bobby5280

Whether it gets signed as I-45 or not I fully expect US-69 to be brought up to Interstate quality through Durant. The road surface of US-69 and its shoulders would need some improvements. And some of that is already taking place.

A freeway upgrade to US-69 is planned for the town of Calera, possibly in response to growth related to the Choctaw Casino resort nearby. Unfortunately the plan I saw for the upgrade didn't include a new exit to remove the traffic light at Hollis Roberts Road at the main entrance to the casino. But there is plenty of room to remove that at-grade intersection and build slip ramps to frontage roads. That intersection really needs to be a freeway exit due the traffic load. There's an incredible amount of truck traffic on that route. And there's a lot of traffic visiting that casino. It's not quite as busy as WinStar on I-35 (the largest casino in the US), but it's a big casino nonetheless.

The other at-grade intersections between Colbert and Calera can be removed relatively easily since a bunch of properties along US-69 are behind partial frontage roads.

North of Durant "future I-45" could easily be built as far as Tushka. But North of there is where we wind up with all the anti-freeway trouble in Atoka and Stringtown. They're like the "Breezewoods" in Pennsylvania. But nobody really wants to move to those towns and they're not doing well at keeping young people around. At some point those towns will shrivel up enough that they become a non-issue at blocking a freeway upgrade. The US-69 freeway upgrade in McAlester and freeway bypass in Muskogee will probably get built meanwhile.

sparker

^^^^^^^^
If ODOT really wanted to pursue an Interstate corridor up to at least I-40, they've had the federal "green light" to do so for 27 years (ISTEA section 1174).  They could cut some sort of compensation deal with the towns along US 69(/75) and actually get it done if they (a) had the funds to complete the corridor and (b) could amass the political will to spend those funds on this specific project.  There might be some local sniveling, but eventually feathers will be smoothed and the project would proceed.  It's not like VA, with its "commonwealth" approach which functionally means local veto power for such things -- these towns are like the "Black Knight" in Holy Grail, with undoubtedly some avenue of communication with their state legislators to run interference for them -- but with little power of their own.  The bottom line is that ODOT and their political handlers just don't want to spend $$ on upgrading that corridor; Stringtown et. al are simply convenient excuses to avoid addressing the issue of too much traffic (particularly commercial) for the configuration of the present facility. 

Bobby5280

For whatever reason the people in Atoka and Stringtown are just as much a Monty Python "Black Knight" character as any NIMBY town in the country. But I would agree the state legislature could push a very win-able eminent domain case and get new bypasses built around Tushka & Atoka as well as upgrade US-69 thru Stringtown (there's hardly any town there really). The OK state legislature simply doesn't want to spend highway money on projects there. They would prefer to sink that money into Tulsa first, OKC second and then throw table scraps at other locations in the state.

If the federal government was more involved in planning, maintaining and funding national highway networks like the Interstate system we would probably already see US-69 vastly more upgraded to Interstate standards in Oklahoma than it is now. It is a very important route to the overall national highway network. But it does bypass OKC and Tulsa on its way from Texas to the Northeastern US.

Regardless of what happens it won't be too long before I-45 could be signed up into Oklahoma, at an unceremonious end at the US-70 bypass around Durant. It would be a lot like how I-44 ends in Wichita Falls, only a dozen miles past the state line.

Plutonic Panda

Bobby, that's interesting you mention Tulsa. I was always under the impression that OkDOT favors OKC over Tulsa for Highway money but OTA favors Tulsa.

Bobby5280

I don't understand why, but the Tulsa area just seems to have more political clout than any other part of the state. OKC isn't far behind though.

bugo

I see the opposite. OKC gets most of the good stuff when Tulsa gets leftovers.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: bugo on December 30, 2018, 01:48:17 PM
I see the opposite. OKC gets most of the good stuff when Tulsa gets leftovers.
Tulsa has George Kaiser which a god send for the city. OKC has Aubrey but he died. Unfortunately that means OKC no longer has a big philanthropist like Tulsa does.

As far as government goes, I agree the government favors OKC even though they seem to fight the city on a lot of progress they try and make like fixing abandoned property laws and laws protecting the gays from bigoted landlords. The state has or tried to overturn progressive laws moving the city forward. As far as capital projects go, I'd agree the state favors OKC.

bugo

I find Tulsa is a much nicer city than OKC. A large part of OKC is a slum.

rte66man

Quote from: bugo on December 30, 2018, 03:37:46 PM
I find Tulsa is a much nicer city than OKC. A large part of OKC is a slum.

"...a large part of OKC is a slum..." What?  Having lived for decades in each city I can say with certainty that OKC is no more and no less a slum than is Tulsa. Cite some specific examples and show how they constitute "a large part".
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

rte66man

Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 29, 2018, 01:45:06 PM
A freeway upgrade to US-69 is planned for the town of Calera, possibly in response to growth related to the Choctaw Casino resort nearby. Unfortunately the plan I saw for the upgrade didn't include a new exit to remove the traffic light at Hollis Roberts Road at the main entrance to the casino. But there is plenty of room to remove that at-grade intersection and build slip ramps to frontage roads. That intersection really needs to be a freeway exit due the traffic load. There's an incredible amount of truck traffic on that route. And there's a lot of traffic visiting that casino. It's not quite as busy as WinStar on I-35 (the largest casino in the US), but it's a big casino nonetheless.

The other at-grade intersections between Colbert and Calera can be removed relatively easily since a bunch of properties along US-69 are behind partial frontage roads.

ROW acquisition and Utility relocation is scheduled on the 8 Year Plan for the stretch south from Calera to near the Red River
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: bugo on December 30, 2018, 03:37:46 PM
I find Tulsa is a much nicer city than OKC. A large part of OKC is a slum.
Tulsa has more scenic beauty. Tulsa is a nice city but I don't like it. I prefer OKC and think OKC is a nicer city with more to offer. OKC also has a much brighter future than Tulsa. I think Tulsa has a lot of potential that is squandered due to a dysfunctional government.

In_Correct

Especially with the past decade of minimal road projects, if any local area refuses road upgrades, ODOT will usually oblige and focus on other areas that want upgrades. (There are plenty of areas that want them.)
Drive Safely. :sombrero: Ride Safely. And Build More Roads, Rails, And Bridges. :coffee: ... Boulevards Wear Faster Than Interstates.



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