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Traffic signal

Started by Tom89t, January 14, 2012, 01:01:45 AM

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JoePCool14

Quote from: fwydriver405 on April 06, 2021, 12:03:43 AM
I forgot to take a picture when I went to New Jersey back in January 2021, but I spotted this unusual red left turn arrow in Newark. What kind of red arrow shap is this? This seems to be a recent installation because the previous GSV's from October 2021 and prior shows this post-mounted signal used to have a circular red indication.

Looks like they tried to take a standard MUTCD arrow design (not sure which) and stick it in a traffic light.

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SkyPesos

#4051
Since this got buried at the bottom of the previous page, I'll repost.

Not sure how common this is, but I found overhead bicycle signals while on a college campus visit yesterday.

kphoger

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 06, 2021, 12:22:50 PM
Since this got buried at the bottom of the previous page, I'll repost.

Not sure how common this is, but I found overhead bicycle signals while on a college campus visit yesterday.



To me, that looks like bulbs that are partially burnt out or otherwise obscured.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

jakeroot

^^^
I would really like to see the overall setup at that intersection. I strongly dislike pedestrian and cycling infrastructure mounted overhead, so something like the above makes me vomit a bit in my mouth.

SkyPesos

#4054
Quote from: jakeroot on April 06, 2021, 04:59:49 PM
^^^
I would really like to see the overall setup at that intersection. I strongly dislike pedestrian and cycling infrastructure mounted overhead, so something like the above makes me vomit a bit in my mouth.
This is a recent change, so it's not on GSV yet, but 3rd Street between Martin Jischke Dr and University St got turned into a pedestrian zone, with bike lanes running through it and tables/seating (probably as study areas) on the (former) roadway. They kept the mast arms from when it had motor vehicles, and refitted the lights on the pedestrian only area of 3rd Street as bicycle lights for the bike lanes. Pedestrian crossings on both sides of 3rd street were also kept, despite it's more like a single large pedestrian crossing now.

Here's a comparison on GSV with the image I posted above. It's what the intersection looked like before the street closed to motor vehicles.

ErmineNotyours


fwydriver405

Quote from: JoePCool14 on April 06, 2021, 10:57:34 AM
Quote from: fwydriver405 on April 06, 2021, 12:03:43 AM
I forgot to take a picture when I went to New Jersey back in January 2021, but I spotted this unusual red left turn arrow in Newark. What kind of red arrow shap is this? This seems to be a recent installation because the previous GSV's from October 2021 and prior shows this post-mounted signal used to have a circular red indication.

Looks like they tried to take a standard MUTCD arrow design (not sure which) and stick it in a traffic light.

Closeup of the arrow. It also appears it has also made it to the opposing directions mast arm as well for the left turn signal. I have a feeling it may be a Type D arrow as shown in Figure 2D-2 of the 2009 MUTCD:


kphoger

I'm betting it has nothing to with the MUTCD.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

hotdogPi

Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2021, 03:52:02 PM
I'm betting it has nothing to with the MUTCD.

Some mistakes are caused by overapplication of the MUTCD, like the three-fourths error.
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jakeroot

Arrows like that one in New Jersey have been seen elsewhere.

One example near me for a U-turn signal: https://goo.gl/maps/yLMjCFDep1bYUQDp6

Amtrakprod

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 06, 2021, 12:22:50 PM
Since this got buried at the bottom of the previous page, I'll repost.

Not sure how common this is, but I found overhead bicycle signals while on a college campus visit yesterday.

They look nice! Good visibility.


iPhone
Roadgeek, railfan, and crossing signal fan. From Massachusetts, and in high school. Youtube is my website link. Loves FYAs signals. Interest in Bicycle Infrastructure. Owns one Leotech Pedestrian Signal, and a Safetran Type 1 E bell.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Amtrakprod on April 11, 2021, 10:23:26 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 06, 2021, 12:22:50 PM
Since this got buried at the bottom of the previous page, I'll repost.

Not sure how common this is, but I found overhead bicycle signals while on a college campus visit yesterday.

They look nice! Good visibility.


iPhone

From a stopped position, looking at a close photo, maybe. From a moving car, not so much.

Scott5114

Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 11, 2021, 12:10:01 PM
From a stopped position, looking at a close photo, maybe. From a moving car, not so much.

Good thing it's installed in a pedestrian-only area then, huh?
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 11, 2021, 12:16:56 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 11, 2021, 12:10:01 PM
From a stopped position, looking at a close photo, maybe. From a moving car, not so much.

Good thing it's installed in a pedestrian-only area then, huh?

That FedEx truck seems to indicate otherwise.

SkyPesos

Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 11, 2021, 12:54:34 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 11, 2021, 12:16:56 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 11, 2021, 12:10:01 PM
From a stopped position, looking at a close photo, maybe. From a moving car, not so much.

Good thing it's installed in a pedestrian-only area then, huh?

That FedEx truck seems to indicate otherwise.
Pedestrian only area ends past the signal.

mrsman

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 11, 2021, 01:10:45 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 11, 2021, 12:54:34 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 11, 2021, 12:16:56 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 11, 2021, 12:10:01 PM
From a stopped position, looking at a close photo, maybe. From a moving car, not so much.

Good thing it's installed in a pedestrian-only area then, huh?

That FedEx truck seems to indicate otherwise.
Pedestrian only area ends past the signal.

This is in West Lafayette, IN near Purdue University campus.  It seems that 3rd street was originally a regular street and now the section behind the traffic signal is for bikes only, so they simply replaced the RYG signals with bike signals.  Jakeroot is correct that most of these bike signal installations would not put the bike signals overhead, since it is way over the normal sightline of bikes and is normally where auto signals go - so to avoid confusion of car drivers, it is best to not put bike signals there.  However, in this case, it is not so critical, since only bicycles will see this light, since the street is otherwise closed to cars.

In many cases, bike signals are used at intersections to give bikes a protected phase of some sort, often by restricting some turns during the bicycle green light.  At those intersections, it is critical that drivers are aware which signal is theirs and not to be confused by the bike lights.  But that is not the case here.  In fact, I would say, there is no need to even have a bicycle filter over these signals and a regular RYG would be well enough, even though it is only bikes who travel through.  The bike signals are only truly necessary where they need to control bikes where drivers can also see the lights.

Here is another college town with bike lights on a mast arm.  This intersection is a T-intersection, but the bike path goes through the T.  Only bikes see this signal.  Russell and Sycamore in Davis, CA.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5462744,-121.7617925,3a,37.5y,343.81h,86.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCSN_rDOpiOWStSEjoumNcg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

The bike signal is critical here because in the opposite direction cars and bikes on Sycamore have separate phases.  One phase allows cars on Sycamore to make protected lefts and rights on Russell.  The other phase is for bikes and peds to cross and to turn at this corner.  A Barnes dance for bikes and peds.  Many bikes coming off the bike path continue north on Sycamore and many also make a left turn onto the Russell northside sidewalk (which is a shared ped/bike path).  When campus is in session, the number of bikes that pass through here is intense.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5463992,-121.7618175,3a,75y,165.21h,76.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKACjEr0wnDFHvMuMEWBhQQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Here's an article about it:

http://www.pedbikesafe.org/BIKESAFE/case_studies/casestudy.cfm?CS_NUM=702

Amtrakprod

Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 11, 2021, 12:10:01 PM
Quote from: Amtrakprod on April 11, 2021, 10:23:26 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 06, 2021, 12:22:50 PM
Since this got buried at the bottom of the previous page, I'll repost.

Not sure how common this is, but I found overhead bicycle signals while on a college campus visit yesterday.

They look nice! Good visibility.


iPhone

From a stopped position, looking at a close photo, maybe. From a moving car, not so much.
Cars shouldn't see them they're for bikes (:


iPhone
Roadgeek, railfan, and crossing signal fan. From Massachusetts, and in high school. Youtube is my website link. Loves FYAs signals. Interest in Bicycle Infrastructure. Owns one Leotech Pedestrian Signal, and a Safetran Type 1 E bell.

Amtrakprod

Quote from: mrsman on April 11, 2021, 02:57:22 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 11, 2021, 01:10:45 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 11, 2021, 12:54:34 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 11, 2021, 12:16:56 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 11, 2021, 12:10:01 PM
From a stopped position, looking at a close photo, maybe. From a moving car, not so much.

Good thing it's installed in a pedestrian-only area then, huh?

That FedEx truck seems to indicate otherwise.
Pedestrian only area ends past the signal.

This is in West Lafayette, IN near Purdue University campus.  It seems that 3rd street was originally a regular street and now the section behind the traffic signal is for bikes only, so they simply replaced the RYG signals with bike signals.  Jakeroot is correct that most of these bike signal installations would not put the bike signals overhead, since it is way over the normal sightline of bikes and is normally where auto signals go - so to avoid confusion of car drivers, it is best to not put bike signals there.  However, in this case, it is not so critical, since only bicycles will see this light, since the street is otherwise closed to cars.

In many cases, bike signals are used at intersections to give bikes a protected phase of some sort, often by restricting some turns during the bicycle green light.  At those intersections, it is critical that drivers are aware which signal is theirs and not to be confused by the bike lights.  But that is not the case here.  In fact, I would say, there is no need to even have a bicycle filter over these signals and a regular RYG would be well enough, even though it is only bikes who travel through.  The bike signals are only truly necessary where they need to control bikes where drivers can also see the lights.

Here is another college town with bike lights on a mast arm.  This intersection is a T-intersection, but the bike path goes through the T.  Only bikes see this signal.  Russell and Sycamore in Davis, CA.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5462744,-121.7617925,3a,37.5y,343.81h,86.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCSN_rDOpiOWStSEjoumNcg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

The bike signal is critical here because in the opposite direction cars and bikes on Sycamore have separate phases.  One phase allows cars on Sycamore to make protected lefts and rights on Russell.  The other phase is for bikes and peds to cross and to turn at this corner.  A Barnes dance for bikes and peds.  Many bikes coming off the bike path continue north on Sycamore and many also make a left turn onto the Russell northside sidewalk (which is a shared ped/bike path).  When campus is in session, the number of bikes that pass through here is intense.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5463992,-121.7618175,3a,75y,165.21h,76.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKACjEr0wnDFHvMuMEWBhQQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Here's an article about it:

http://www.pedbikesafe.org/BIKESAFE/case_studies/casestudy.cfm?CS_NUM=702
Separation of bike and vehicle signals is a big issue. My town of Arlington used louvers and it typically works well.

From right turn lane:


From bike lane:



iPhone
Roadgeek, railfan, and crossing signal fan. From Massachusetts, and in high school. Youtube is my website link. Loves FYAs signals. Interest in Bicycle Infrastructure. Owns one Leotech Pedestrian Signal, and a Safetran Type 1 E bell.

SkyPesos

I like how they painted the bike lane green in the Arlington example. What I normally see is that they're left unpainted and you have to look for it from the bicycle symbol on the pavement.

Big John

From the prior 2 examples, did the requirement of labeling bike signals go away?

roadman65

https://goo.gl/maps/89qY1MBmGiyhag6N8
This one in NJ gets me wondering.  Why is not the overhead heads also double red as well as the two side mounts?

In addition prior to the signal there is an overhead flashing warning of the signal indicating that this is a problem intersection with red light jumpers.  However, being three signals are immediately behind this one intersection, I find that one hard to believe that someone would miss this particular signal yet they do.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

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SkyPesos

Quote from: roadman65 on April 14, 2021, 01:13:14 PM
https://goo.gl/maps/89qY1MBmGiyhag6N8
This one in NJ gets me wondering.  Why is not the overhead heads also double red as well as the two side mounts?

In addition prior to the signal there is an overhead flashing warning of the signal indicating that this is a problem intersection with red light jumpers.  However, being three signals are immediately behind this one intersection, I find that one hard to believe that someone would miss this particular signal yet they do.
What are the double red signals even used for? I have never seen one before.

jakeroot

Quote from: SkyPesos on April 14, 2021, 01:17:21 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 14, 2021, 01:13:14 PM
https://goo.gl/maps/89qY1MBmGiyhag6N8
This one in NJ gets me wondering.  Why is not the overhead heads also double red as well as the two side mounts?

In addition prior to the signal there is an overhead flashing warning of the signal indicating that this is a problem intersection with red light jumpers.  However, being three signals are immediately behind this one intersection, I find that one hard to believe that someone would miss this particular signal yet they do.

What are the double red signals even used for? I have never seen one before.

Double red signals are usually reserved for intersections where a municipality has somewhat regular issues with signal compliance (typically, lots of red light running). I only knew of two signals in Washington with double reds, but they've been removed.

As to the signals in New Jersey: my guess is that the double red signals were used at the stop line to more clearly indicate to approaching traffic exactly where the stop line is. With the curve, it might also be the case that the near side signals are the first ones visible. It's possible that the overhead near side mast arm was not strong enough to support a fourth signal head, so only the post-mounted signals received double reds.

kphoger

Here's a similar one in Illinois.  The post-mounted signals have double reds, but the overhead ones do not.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

jmacswimmer

Here's one from US 158/Croatan Highway on the Outer Banks.  I remember being surprised when I first saw it driving by last summer, so interesting to see some discussion about this being a thing in multiple locations.
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"Is Ditka driving?"
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"Then I like da Bear buss."
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