Wacky 360-degree loop combined with curved and sloped tunnel along with weird bi-level corridor: https://goo.gl/maps/lElra
Crazy all-elevated traffic circle in the middle of a valley with double-decked cliffside approach road: https://goo.gl/maps/btw9z
In fact, that whole city (Catanzaro) has a nutso array of viaducts, bridges, tunnels, inclines, etc. amongst its highway system. (Check out the Google Earth view.)
I can't think of anything this inventive with respect to terrain in the U.S. Other examples, whether in Italy or other countries?
The 360 loop with overpass is also in Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
Quote from: Sykotyk on July 28, 2015, 07:40:16 PM
The 360 loop with overpass is also in Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
Yeah, but that's kids' play compared to the Italian example with its tunnel and all.
Quote from: empirestate on July 28, 2015, 06:59:00 PM
I can't think of anything this inventive with respect to terrain in the U.S. Other examples, whether in Italy or other countries?
The thing of it is, Italy has lots of little towns shoved into the sides of hills among rugged terrain, the locations of which were generally chosen for their ease of defense from invaders and their lack of usefulness as farm land. This sort of development pattern doesn't really exist on this side of the Atlantic. There are certainly parts of the US where the terrain is just as rugged, but in these areas the towns tend to be located in the bottoms of valleys rather than on the slopes of hills, and the roads tend to follow valleys rather than twisting through the hills. Compare West Virginia (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0658532,-80.6676554,14.84z/data=!5m1!1e4) to Italy (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6897408,12.9683022,14.87z/data=!5m1!1e4).
Then there's also simply a question of what sort of functionality is sought. The road through the loop tunnel serves as a bypass of an older road, but then only bypasses half the town and dumps traffic directly into the other half. In the US a road like that would never be built in any type of terrain, either the whole town would be completely bypassed or none of it would. And no one would consider going through such expense to build a bypass road without making it straighter and designed for higher speeds, either.
Chicago's triple decker streets are cooler.
Quote from: empirestate on July 28, 2015, 06:59:00 PMI can't think of anything this inventive with respect to terrain in the U.S. Other examples, whether in Italy or other countries?
There are at least four expressway loops in China: One on the G30 Lianyungang-Faraway (i.e. Khorgas) expressway near the Sayram lake in Xinjiang Uyghur, another one on G85
Chongqing Yinchuan-Kunming expressway in Northeastern Yunnan province, and the remaining two on the G5 Beijing-Kunming expressway South of 'Asbestos' (Shimian) in South central Sichuan province.
I forgot another loop, which I have clinched. It's on NA-137 right at the Spain/France border.
Quote from: empirestate on July 28, 2015, 07:56:17 PM
Quote from: Sykotyk on July 28, 2015, 07:40:16 PM
The 360 loop with overpass is also in Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
Yeah, but that's kids' play compared to the Italian example with its tunnel and all.
Actually the helix in the Smokies uses a tunnel to go under itself, though as I recall there's not much of a direction change in the tunnel itself.
Quote from: vtk on July 29, 2015, 08:13:59 PM
Quote from: empirestate on July 28, 2015, 07:56:17 PM
Quote from: Sykotyk on July 28, 2015, 07:40:16 PM
The 360 loop with overpass is also in Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
Yeah, but that's kids' play compared to the Italian example with its tunnel and all.
Actually the helix in the Smokies uses a tunnel to go under itself, though as I recall there's not much of a direction change in the tunnel itself.
If I can ever figure out how to edit and upload video I will post my last trip through there in May. I seem to remember that there was still some curve left in the road as I went through the tunnel, but obviously no where near as tight as the loop preceding it.
Quote from: slorydn1 on July 29, 2015, 08:38:41 PM
Quote from: vtk on July 29, 2015, 08:13:59 PM
Quote from: empirestate on July 28, 2015, 07:56:17 PM
Quote from: Sykotyk on July 28, 2015, 07:40:16 PM
The 360 loop with overpass is also in Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
Yeah, but that's kids' play compared to the Italian example with its tunnel and all.
Actually the helix in the Smokies uses a tunnel to go under itself, though as I recall there's not much of a direction change in the tunnel itself.
If I can ever figure out how to edit and upload video I will post my last trip through there in May. I seem to remember that there was still some curve left in the road as I went through the tunnel, but obviously no where near as tight as the loop preceding it.
Exactly; you have to really stretch to describe the U.S. version as even approaching the spiffiness of the Italian one.
That's not a criticism of the U.S. or anything; I'm just looking for things with a bit more of a "wow" factor than the Smokies loop. If such can be found in the U.S., great!
iPhone
I imagine you'd have to look at railroads to get any US similarities to the Italian roads.
Quote from: Bickendan on July 30, 2015, 03:41:14 PM
I imagine you'd have to look at railroads to get any US similarities to the Italian roads.
Right, that's why I suggested looking in Italy and other countries. Haven't had any hits as of yet; surely there's other cool stuff out there?
Spiral loops (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_(railway)) are employed by railways around the world to climb hills. There seem to be a few in the U.S., but Italy takes the cake.
The most famous of these might be the Brusio spiral viaduct (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brusio_spiral_viaduct) in Switzerland:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/RhB_ABe_4-4_III_Kreisviadukt_Brusio.jpg/1024px-RhB_ABe_4-4_III_Kreisviadukt_Brusio.jpg)
The closest I can think of in the US is the helix approach to the Lincoln Tunnel
Quote from: bzakharin on July 31, 2015, 07:22:13 PM
The closest I can think of in the US is the helix approach to the Lincoln Tunnel
OK, can you think of anything in another country?
iPhone
The NYC side of the George Washington Bridge?
Wiki might have a handy list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_bridge
OK, perhaps I wasn't clear...
I gave a couple of examples from Italy, and I'm interested in seeing examples of other similarly outrageous designs from around that country. And if you know of examples from another country that are comparable feats of engineering, I'd be interested in those too. Perhaps elsewhere in Europe, such as the Alpine countries, or there must be something pretty wild in China or Japan, maybe?
Now as I said, there's not a whole lot in the U.S. that's this elaborate in how it deals with terrain–so I'm not looking for examples from the U.S. If there is one that's not occurring to me, great, let's see it, but otherwise you don't need to go looking for whatever comes the closest in the U.S. Just skip the whole country and try another.
Also, while one of the examples I gave was a spiral, the other was not–so I'm not looking for a collection of spirals. Again, if there is one that has the added multi-plane tunnel feature or is similarly intricate in another way, that's cool, but a plain old unadorned 360-degree loop is just too vanilla to compete here. How about another example of an entire interchange elevated above a valley, or in tunnels beneath a mountaintop city? Or best yet–half-and-half?
So for another example, here we have an interchange with roundabout inside a tunnel in Monaco (with some apparently unrelated tunnels intermingled): https://goo.gl/maps/OFx5X
Quote from: empirestate on July 31, 2015, 11:26:32 PM
Now as I said, there's not a whole lot in the U.S. that's this elaborate in how it deals with terrain–so I'm not looking for examples from the U.S. If there is one that's not occurring to me, great, let's see it, but otherwise you don't need to go looking for whatever comes the closest in the U.S.
I think the Trans-Manhattan Expressway comes pretty close, if it's not actually more complicated roadwise (but simpler terrainwise).
Quote from: NE2 on August 01, 2015, 12:14:31 AM
Quote from: empirestate on July 31, 2015, 11:26:32 PM
Now as I said, there's not a whole lot in the U.S. that's this elaborate in how it deals with terrain–so I'm not looking for examples from the U.S. If there is one that's not occurring to me, great, let's see it, but otherwise you don't need to go looking for whatever comes the closest in the U.S.
I think the Trans-Manhattan Expressway comes pretty close, if it's not actually more complicated roadwise (but simpler terrainwise).
Yeah, I think that's more in the neighborhood, including the whole stretch from the GWB to the Highbridge Interchange.
Also, the Big Dig in terms of underground complexity. I believe Australia has some stuff along these lines, too?
iPhone
Quote from: empirestate on August 01, 2015, 02:55:56 PM
Also, the Big Dig in terms of underground complexity. I believe Australia has some stuff along these lines, too?
- Sydney has a system of tunnels beneath the CBD.
- Brisbane also has quite an extensive system of tunnels between the CBD and the airport. Near Herston, three tunnels rise from the underground to meet an overground motorway.
Perth and Melbourne also have tunnels, but they aren't as complex.
Quote from: empirestate on August 01, 2015, 02:55:56 PM
Also, the Big Dig in terms of underground complexity. I believe Australia has some stuff along these lines, too?
As does Montreal. Check out A-720 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4978744,-73.5638963,14.67z). It's a lot like the Big Dig except a few decades older.
Also in Montreal, you have Pont Victoria (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4942125,-73.5169623,811m/data=!3m1!1e3)... which at its eastern end has two alternate routes both for trains and for cars. The bridge passes over a lock in the Saint Lawrence seaway. The gate to the lock that is open is accompanied by a lift bridge in the raised position. When a ship passes through the lock, one bridge raises and the other lowers, and traffic is rerouted.
Old thread I know, but California has some pretty wild engineering along Route 18.
Here's a diamond interchange in the middle of a switchback curve in a side canyon:
https://goo.gl/maps/dtZn8xvs5sfD2Vn88
At the intersection of CA 18 and CA 138. the terrain is too steep to make a right turn directly from 18 to 138, so this movement is accommodated with a spiral of sorts:
https://goo.gl/maps/3tK1SUEMVbcTXRRr7
Quote from: roadiejay on September 21, 2019, 12:10:26 PM
At the intersection of CA 18 and CA 138. the terrain is too steep to make a right turn directly from 18 to 138, so this movement is accommodated with a spiral of sorts:
https://goo.gl/maps/3tK1SUEMVbcTXRRr7
This interchange reminds me of some interchanges in/on Madeira.
Or, in the case of the OP, it looks particularly Italian!
US 16A south of Mt. Rushmore has some pretty zany features. 3 helices, including one where a bridge leads directly into a tunnel, plus two bifurcations.
Quote from: Ga293 on September 23, 2019, 01:16:05 AM
US 16A south of Mt. Rushmore has some pretty zany features. 3 helices, including one where a bridge leads directly into a tunnel, plus two bifurcations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFsNLQJ9kLM
The Durango-Mazatlan highway is nuts, both the old and the new one. It has a lot of bridges that lead right into tunnels. I've GSV'd the whole thing and it's really something to behold. It has 115 bridges and 63 tunnels, eight of those bridges being over 890 feet tall.
The old drainage tunnels, now roads, in Guanajuato are pretty cool. Nothing designed as an interchange per se.
Quote from: Ga293 on September 23, 2019, 01:16:05 AM
US 16A south of Mt. Rushmore has some pretty zany features. 3 helices, including one where a bridge leads directly into a tunnel, plus two bifurcations.
The pigtail bridges!
In perhaps the best example I can think of for Arizona, which pales in terms of Zaniness, there's the intersection of State Route 88 and State Route 188 at Government Hill/Roosevelt. The road used to go over the top of the old masonry dam and through tunnels to reach the bottom of the canyon. In its present (post 1992) form, SR 88 winds up the side canyons and around the hill points, nearly touching SR 188 before curving around a point, going over a side canyon, and cutting through another point before it intersects 188 on top of a curved bridge:
https://goo.gl/maps/ZRDP1ac6sE8SPSMK6
Quote from: roadiejay on September 28, 2019, 03:06:24 PM
In perhaps the best example I can think of for Arizona, which pales in terms of Zaniness, there's the intersection of State Route 88 and State Route 188 at Government Hill/Roosevelt. The road used to go over the top of the old masonry dam and through tunnels to reach the bottom of the canyon. In its present (post 1992) form, SR 88 winds up the side canyons and around the hill points, nearly touching SR 188 before curving around a point, going over a side canyon, and cutting through another point before it intersects 188 on top of a curved bridge:
https://goo.gl/maps/ZRDP1ac6sE8SPSMK6
Where were/are those tunnels now?
Quote from: empirestate on September 28, 2019, 05:19:19 PM
Quote from: roadiejay on September 28, 2019, 03:06:24 PM
In perhaps the best example I can think of for Arizona, which pales in terms of Zaniness, there's the intersection of State Route 88 and State Route 188 at Government Hill/Roosevelt. The road used to go over the top of the old masonry dam and through tunnels to reach the bottom of the canyon. In its present (post 1992) form, SR 88 winds up the side canyons and around the hill points, nearly touching SR 188 before curving around a point, going over a side canyon, and cutting through another point before it intersects 188 on top of a curved bridge:
https://goo.gl/maps/ZRDP1ac6sE8SPSMK6
Where were/are those tunnels now?
Underneath present-day Apache Trail/SR 88 on one end, at grade with the highway at the other side of the point:
https://goo.gl/maps/ZRDP1ac6sE8SPSMK6
https://goo.gl/maps/cnk8EkQKKNPehS2i7
Although I just realized, it makes more sense that the tunnel would have been built around 1992 along with the raising of the dam, in order to allow SRP access to the top of the dam for maintenance. The apparent age of the doors and concrete support this idea.
Judging by the terrain and images of the old dam, it looks like the road over the dam was reached by two bridges that connected to the small, disused trails on either side of the dam (but which don't quite reach the dam), labelled as "Apache Trail" on the southern side, and "Roosevelt Lake Bridge" on the northern side.
The capacity of the dam must have been ridiculously low, based on the images that I'm seeing, and the fact that the road was single-track for what appears to be a very long distance. I hope passing areas were provided!
Edit: image...
(https://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/programs/Roosevelt/imgs/P25-300-01277.jpg)
(image from Department of the Interior)
Quote from: jakeroot on September 29, 2019, 01:32:41 AM
Judging by the terrain and images of the old dam, it looks like the road over the dam was reached by two bridges that connected to the small, disused trails on either side of the dam (but which don't quite reach the dam), labelled as "Apache Trail" on the southern side, and "Roosevelt Lake Bridge" on the northern side.
The capacity of the dam must have been ridiculously low, based on the images that I'm seeing, and the fact that the road was single-track for what appears to be a very long distance. I hope passing areas were provided!
Edit: image...
(https://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/programs/Roosevelt/imgs/P25-300-01277.jpg)
(image from Department of the Interior)
Great find. Thanks for sharing the pic! I'm told that the custom in pre-bridge days was to simply take turns crossing the top of the dam, one vehicle at a time. SR 188 as a whole didn't have nearly the design speed or capacity back then as it does now, and daily traffic counts were much lower.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 29, 2019, 01:32:41 AM
Judging by the terrain and images of the old dam, it looks like the road over the dam was reached by two bridges that connected to the small, disused trails on either side of the dam (but which don't quite reach the dam), labelled as "Apache Trail" on the southern side, and "Roosevelt Lake Bridge" on the northern side.
Yup, I can see the old abutment to the bridge on the northern side in this view:
https://goo.gl/maps/dfzKDL5B1Ps84wAa6