Interstate 11

[CoolAngrybirdsrio4]

And that is exactly what is needed.  The main purpose of I-11 is to get truck traffic between Las Vegas (and eventually Reno) and the Mexican border, while bypassing Phoenix (and Tucson, if the west option is built). 

That's not what we were told.  We were told Phoenix to Vegas.

We?  You're in New York.  Did you live in Arizona at one time?  I do, and have for close to 30 years.  I don't remember any guarantee of a direct Phoenix-to-Vegas interstate.  We were told that it would be a metro Phoenix-to-Vegas route (and this barely qualifies).  We were also told that truck traffic to and from I-8, 10, 40, and the Mexican border was priority. 

There is no physical way to build I-11 inside the city limits of Phoenix without a whole slew of Eminent Domain and the destruction of a major thoroughfare (Grand Avenue/US 60) that also runs through the downtowns of Glendale, Peoria, Sun City, El Mirage, and Surprise.  That proposal was shot down years ago as impractical and politically impossible.

There is no need whatsoever for another freeway in Phoenix, other than the Tres Rios Fwy/AZ 30, which is funded.  Existing freeways' maintenance needs (upgrades to the I-10/Broadway Curve and the Loop 303 at I-17, for example) must take precedence.

This is perhaps why Interstate 11 is being built west of Phoenix in Buckeye instead in addition to bypassing Wickenburg to the west as indicated from the approved corridor. However, it will still be within the Phoenix MSA with it running in Buckeye.

I'm still surprised it's being built so far west.  I would have thought that it would have been routed over AZ 85 between I-8 and I-10, then concurrent with I-10 to Sun Valley Pkwy.  Then north on Sun Valley to where it turns east (which could be a connector between I-11 and Loop 303, to what was proposed as Loop 404, around Wickenburg to US 93.  But that was not to be.

I thought it would go west and south of Wickenburg to AZ 85 from US 60 and AZ 303 myself.

There is no physical way to build I-11 inside the city limits of Phoenix without a whole slew of Eminent Domain and the destruction of a major thoroughfare (Grand Avenue/US 60) that also runs through the downtowns of Glendale, Peoria, Sun City, El Mirage, and Surprise.  That proposal was shot down years ago as impractical and politically impossible.

Who has been saying any of that nonsense? Just about all the people wanting a proper Vegas to Phoenix route simply want US-60 to be 100% Interstate quality between Wickenburg and Loop 303. That isn't too much to ask. This I-11 thing doesn't manage that at all. South of Wickenburg I-11 turns into a North-South route clear on the other side of the mountains away from Phoenix. Anyone driving Vegas to Phoenix is just going to stay on US-60.

US 60 would have to be upgraded regardless whether or not it goes to Wickenburg or Loop 303.

[vdeane]

And that is exactly what is needed.  The main purpose of I-11 is to get truck traffic between Las Vegas (and eventually Reno) and the Mexican border, while bypassing Phoenix (and Tucson, if the west option is built). 

That's not what we were told.  We were told Phoenix to Vegas.

We?  You're in New York.  Did you live in Arizona at one time?  I do, and have for close to 30 years.  I don't remember any guarantee of a direct Phoenix-to-Vegas interstate.  We were told that it would be a metro Phoenix-to-Vegas route (and this barely qualifies).  We were also told that truck traffic to and from I-8, 10, 40, and the Mexican border was priority. 

There is no physical way to build I-11 inside the city limits of Phoenix without a whole slew of Eminent Domain and the destruction of a major thoroughfare (Grand Avenue/US 60) that also runs through the downtowns of Glendale, Peoria, Sun City, El Mirage, and Surprise.  That proposal was shot down years ago as impractical and politically impossible.

There is no need whatsoever for another freeway in Phoenix, other than the Tres Rios Fwy/AZ 30, which is funded.  Existing freeways' maintenance needs (upgrades to the I-10/Broadway Curve and the Loop 303 at I-17, for example) must take precedence.

"We" as in the people of the US when this corridor was first proposed.  Everything said was Phoenix-Vegas.  Vegas-Reno was only discussed as a possibility, and I don't remember much of anything on Mexico-Phoenix.

IMO metro Phoenix qualifies, but as you said, this route barely qualifies.  And I was responding to the assertion that the main purpose was Vegas-Mexico truck traffic, with the Phoenix-Vegas connection in and of itself being unimportant, which is quite odd, given how the interstate system is used to connect metro areas, and how the Phoenix-Vegas connection being what was used to sell the rest of the nation on I-11.  I guess Arizona and Nevada must have been more honest with the people in their own states than they were everyone else - similar to how NCDOT sold the feds on this idea of connecting Raleigh and Hampton Roads, while in reality the plan was always to build an interstate serving Elizabeth City.

[CoolAngrybirdsrio4]

It turns out a portion of US 93 is a super two with an interchange at AZ 71.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.124746,-112.9487358,2719m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en&authuser=0

[KeithE4Phx]

There is no physical way to build I-11 inside the city limits of Phoenix without a whole slew of Eminent Domain and the destruction of a major thoroughfare (Grand Avenue/US 60) that also runs through the downtowns of Glendale, Peoria, Sun City, El Mirage, and Surprise.  That proposal was shot down years ago as impractical and politically impossible.

Who has been saying any of that nonsense? Just about all the people wanting a proper Vegas to Phoenix route simply want US-60 to be 100% Interstate quality between Wickenburg and Loop 303. That isn't too much to ask. This I-11 thing doesn't manage that at all. South of Wickenburg I-11 turns into a North-South route clear on the other side of the mountains away from Phoenix. Anyone driving Vegas to Phoenix is just going to stay on US-60.

As I and others who actually live here have said numerous times:  US 60 is not going to be upgraded to a freeway.  Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.  The 1980s proposal to do that has been shot down.  It is an urban highway and will remain so.

I drive that route a couple times a year.  I-11 will get the trucks off of US 60, other than local business, leaving 60 for car traffic.  It would be very nice to upgrade the 60/303 bottleneck... er, I mean... interchange, but it's too built-up in that area now.  Lots of homes would have to be demolished, and that just isn't going to happen.

[KeithE4Phx]

It turns out a portion of US 93 is a super two with an interchange at AZ 71.

That's going to be rebuilt, once funding is approved for the Joshua Tree Parkway segment of 93.  Same goes for the semi-interchange at AZ 89.  That section, at about 25 miles, is the longest two-lane section that still exists.  There are a very few remaining north of there, but they should be finished in the next couple years, hopefully including new ramps at I-40.  They still don't know what they're going to do with the part through Wickieup, though.

[kernals12]

Yeesh.  Everything south of I-10 is just a developer pork project rather than one designed to further the transportation needs of regional travelers.  Why not just send it down AZ 85 to I-8 and terminate there?  That would fill in a genuine gap in the interstate system and not put in pointless extra mileage.  And why does it need to overlap or replace I-19?  If I-19 were to be replaced by something, I'd rather it be I-17 so that I-17's numbers would at least (appear to - they'd still be off by ~20 miles) make sense.  Is this some back-door way to force I-19 away from metric?

The purpose of I-11 is to get trucks from Nogales to Las Vegas, while bypassing Phoenix.

That's not what we were told back when I-11 proponents were trying to get traction to get the project started.

I don't think you realize just how much Arizona is projected to grow in the future. If that growth happens in existing cities, it will mean more congestion and less livability. Sprawl means that existing communities aren't faced with the burdens of more people.

But west of the White Tank Mountains?  Who is going to live all the way the hell out there when there is no direct access over that range over than slogging all the way down to I-10?  The most practical path I-11 could have took was down US 60 and AZ 303 to reach I-10.  At least if I-11 went down to I-8 via AZ 85 it would serve as a long haul bypass of Phoenix from the Tucson and border areas around Nogales.

As a matter of fact, they're planning two freeways in that area.

That map is close to 15 years old -- ancient and obsolete.  It's so old that it calls the Gateway Fwy AZ 802 (it's AZ 24), and the Tres Rios Fwy AZ 801 (it will be AZ 30),  With the route of I-11 going so far west, I don't know when or if they'll ever build the Loop 404, which was supposed to be taken over by I-11.

The Gateway Fwy is currently being expanded, but only the ramps and the ground-level pavement, similar to the original construction of AZ 51, 40 years ago.  There's no funding yet to upgrade it to a full freeway.

The Tres Rios is being fast-tracked, from what I've heard, because of the extreme overload on I-10 in the West Valley.  It's still many years away from completion.

The Pinal North/South Fwy has just been approved, but it also is not funded.  There is also funding to complete the Loop 303 as a full freeway in Peoria, including full ramps at I-17.  AZ 85 will also be upgraded to a full freeway between I-10 and I-8, but when it happens is anybody's guess.

Those are the only freeways that are guaranteed to get built in the next decade.  I-11 will eventually get done, but it will remain US 93 for the unforeseeable future, even after 4-laning is complete.

You can throw away every other freeway proposal.  Not gonna happen in my lifetime (and I'm 66).

There's enough planned development up there to justify a freeway connecting I-11 to Loop 303.

And ADOT has issued an EIS for the Pinal North South Freeway

The Great Recession delayed a lot of growth for the Phoenix area, but now it's back on track and they need to prepare for an extra 2-3 million people by the middle of the century. Most of these extra people will be living in the West Valley and Pinal County.

There's not enough water for that many more people.

Yeah there is. Arizona has enough water to sustain a large cotton industry, it has enough water for millions and millions of new residents

i sincerely doubt this, water levels continue to decrease and the drought isn't subsiding. now they are instituting cuts. unless i see evidence otherwise.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-environment/2019/02/12/arizona-water-usage-state-uses-less-now-than-1957/2806899002/

Arizona uses less water now than it did in 1957 and 74% of their water use is for agriculture and irrigation. When a cotton field is replaced by a subdivision, particularly one with desert landscaping, water use goes down.

[DenverBrian]

It turns out a portion of US 93 is a super two with an interchange at AZ 71.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Las+Vegas+Indian+Colony,+NV+89124/@36.1859286,-115.1444253,570m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c8927e3ae79d83:0xedc83622358772fd!8m2!3d36.3554674!4d-115.3370959?hl=en&authuser=0

It turns out a portion of US 93 is a super two with an interchange at AZ 71.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Las+Vegas+Indian+Colony,+NV+89124/@36.1859286,-115.1444253,570m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c8927e3ae79d83:0xedc83622358772fd!8m2!3d36.3554674!4d-115.3370959?hl=en&authuser=0

That actually points to midtown Las Vegas.

[CoolAngrybirdsrio4]

It turns out a portion of US 93 is a super two with an interchange at AZ 71.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Las+Vegas+Indian+Colony,+NV+89124/@36.1859286,-115.1444253,570m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c8927e3ae79d83:0xedc83622358772fd!8m2!3d36.3554674!4d-115.3370959?hl=en&authuser=0

It turns out a portion of US 93 is a super two with an interchange at AZ 71.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Las+Vegas+Indian+Colony,+NV+89124/@36.1859286,-115.1444253,570m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c8927e3ae79d83:0xedc83622358772fd!8m2!3d36.3554674!4d-115.3370959?hl=en&authuser=0

That actually points to midtown Las Vegas.

Thanks for pointing it out. Fixed it

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.124746,-112.9487358,2719m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en&authuser=0

[kkt]

This is why climate change hysteria and other woke nonsense is taught as a political religion, to make it a crisis excuse so that logic  and actual facts are ignored.
.

Can't take you seriously, dude. Sorry.

I don't think a single fuck is given about your opinion so there you go.

Well, evidently enough of one for you to chime in.

It is hard to take someone seriously that thinks man-made climat change can be ignored because of logic and facts.

Ah yes, the tired trope of "you must care because you spent 3 seconds out of your day to comment on something you claim not to care about."  *on a discussion board*

Whelp, continue to support turning freeways into boulevards and claiming man made climate change is a fact. One of those I agree with and the other not so much. I'm sure you are smart enough to figure out which is which.

And I'll repeat this, no one gives a fuck about your opinions. Cry about it or don't I don't care. Make sure to I said I don't care.

This forum is filled with opinions.  If you don't care about them, one wonders why you spend your time on here.

Blah blah blah

I know I come here for the high quality conversation, the reasoned opinions...

[Rothman]

This is why climate change hysteria and other woke nonsense is taught as a political religion, to make it a crisis excuse so that logic  and actual facts are ignored.
.

Can't take you seriously, dude. Sorry.

I don't think a single fuck is given about your opinion so there you go.

Well, evidently enough of one for you to chime in.

It is hard to take someone seriously that thinks man-made climat change can be ignored because of logic and facts.

Ah yes, the tired trope of "you must care because you spent 3 seconds out of your day to comment on something you claim not to care about."  *on a discussion board*

Whelp, continue to support turning freeways into boulevards and claiming man made climate change is a fact. One of those I agree with and the other not so much. I'm sure you are smart enough to figure out which is which.

And I'll repeat this, no one gives a fuck about your opinions. Cry about it or don't I don't care. Make sure to I said I don't care.

This forum is filled with opinions.  If you don't care about them, one wonders why you spend your time on here.

Blah blah blah

I know I come here for the high quality conversation, the reasoned opinions...

No, you don't.

[Bobby5280]

As I and others who actually live here have said numerous times:  US 60 is not going to be upgraded to a freeway.  Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.  The 1980s proposal to do that has been shot down. It is an urban highway and will remain so.

I've lived in Arizona before, so don't use that trump card on me. Again, US-60 is not an urban surface street at Loop 303. It's a rural highway on the edge of the Phoenix metro. From Loop 303 going Northwest US-60 would be fairly easy to convert into a freeway. It's not like I'm asking for something insane like converting US-60 to a freeway inside the 101 loop.

I drive that route a couple times a year.  I-11 will get the trucks off of US 60, other than local business, leaving 60 for car traffic.  It would be very nice to upgrade the 60/303 bottleneck... er, I mean... interchange, but it's too built-up in that area now.  Lots of homes would have to be demolished, and that just isn't going to happen.

Not all trucks using US-60 are headed to/from Mexico. Phoenix is a big enough magnet on its own for commercial truck traffic. Commercial and personal vehicles driving between Phoenix and Vegas are going to take the most direct route to get from point A to point B. And that's US-60. This weird concept of I-11 might shave off some long distance truck traffic, but it's not going to do much to ease overall existing traffic levels on US-60/Grand Ave. Those traffic levels are just going to keep getting worse despite what ever convenience I-11 provides to other people driving clear on the other side of the White Tank Mountains.

As for the interchange with Loop 303 and US-60, there is enough room to build an off-center directional stack interchange without taking any existing properties. The existing half cloverleaf interchange takes a pretty big footprint on its own. The SE corner is the only problem. Some creative ramp design and utilization of the open area on the NE side can solve that problem.

[Sub-Urbanite]

As I and others who actually live here have said numerous times:  US 60 is not going to be upgraded to a freeway.  Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.  The 1980s proposal to do that has been shot down. It is an urban highway and will remain so.

I've lived in Arizona before, so don't use that trump card on me. Again, US-60 is not an urban surface street at Loop 303. It's a rural highway on the edge of the Phoenix metro. From Loop 303 going Northwest US-60 would be fairly easy to convert into a freeway. It's not like I'm asking for something insane like converting US-60 to a freeway inside the 101 loop.

I drive that route a couple times a year.  I-11 will get the trucks off of US 60, other than local business, leaving 60 for car traffic.  It would be very nice to upgrade the 60/303 bottleneck... er, I mean... interchange, but it's too built-up in that area now.  Lots of homes would have to be demolished, and that just isn't going to happen.

Not all trucks using US-60 are headed to/from Mexico. Phoenix is a big enough magnet on its own for commercial truck traffic. Commercial and personal vehicles driving between Phoenix and Vegas are going to take the most direct route to get from point A to point B. And that's US-60. This weird concept of I-11 might shave off some long distance truck traffic, but it's not going to do much to ease overall existing traffic levels on US-60/Grand Ave. Those traffic levels are just going to keep getting worse despite what ever convenience I-11 provides to other people driving clear on the other side of the White Tank Mountains.

As for the interchange with Loop 303 and US-60, there is enough room to build an off-center directional stack interchange without taking any existing properties. The existing half cloverleaf interchange takes a pretty big footprint on its own. The SE corner is the only problem. Some creative ramp design and utilization of the open area on the NE side can solve that problem.

I do think they should have split the difference and routed it on 60-303. But anything inside of 303 on 60 is preposterous in terms of expense, political capital and pollution impacts on neighborhoods.

[kernals12]

As I and others who actually live here have said numerous times:  US 60 is not going to be upgraded to a freeway.  Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.  The 1980s proposal to do that has been shot down. It is an urban highway and will remain so.

I've lived in Arizona before, so don't use that trump card on me. Again, US-60 is not an urban surface street at Loop 303. It's a rural highway on the edge of the Phoenix metro. From Loop 303 going Northwest US-60 would be fairly easy to convert into a freeway. It's not like I'm asking for something insane like converting US-60 to a freeway inside the 101 loop.

I drive that route a couple times a year.  I-11 will get the trucks off of US 60, other than local business, leaving 60 for car traffic.  It would be very nice to upgrade the 60/303 bottleneck... er, I mean... interchange, but it's too built-up in that area now.  Lots of homes would have to be demolished, and that just isn't going to happen.

Not all trucks using US-60 are headed to/from Mexico. Phoenix is a big enough magnet on its own for commercial truck traffic. Commercial and personal vehicles driving between Phoenix and Vegas are going to take the most direct route to get from point A to point B. And that's US-60. This weird concept of I-11 might shave off some long distance truck traffic, but it's not going to do much to ease overall existing traffic levels on US-60/Grand Ave. Those traffic levels are just going to keep getting worse despite what ever convenience I-11 provides to other people driving clear on the other side of the White Tank Mountains.

As for the interchange with Loop 303 and US-60, there is enough room to build an off-center directional stack interchange without taking any existing properties. The existing half cloverleaf interchange takes a pretty big footprint on its own. The SE corner is the only problem. Some creative ramp design and utilization of the open area on the NE side can solve that problem.

I do think they should have split the difference and routed it on 60-303. But anything inside of 303 on 60 is preposterous in terms of expense, political capital and pollution impacts on neighborhoods.

Also, it would add new bottlenecks to Interstates 10 and 17.

[kdk]

As I and others who actually live here have said numerous times:  US 60 is not going to be upgraded to a freeway.  Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.  The 1980s proposal to do that has been shot down. It is an urban highway and will remain so.

I drive that route a couple times a year.  I-11 will get the trucks off of US 60, other than local business, leaving 60 for car traffic.  It would be very nice to upgrade the 60/303 bottleneck... er, I mean... interchange, but it's too built-up in that area now.  Lots of homes would have to be demolished, and that just isn't going to happen.

Not all trucks using US-60 are headed to/from Mexico. Phoenix is a big enough magnet on its own for commercial truck traffic. Commercial and personal vehicles driving between Phoenix and Vegas are going to take the most direct route to get from point A to point B. And that's US-60. This weird concept of I-11 might shave off some long distance truck traffic, but it's not going to do much to ease overall existing traffic levels on US-60/Grand Ave. Those traffic levels are just going to keep getting worse despite what ever convenience I-11 provides to other people driving clear on the other side of the White Tank Mountains.

As for the interchange with Loop 303 and US-60, there is enough room to build an off-center directional stack interchange without taking any existing properties. The existing half cloverleaf interchange takes a pretty big footprint on its own. The SE corner is the only problem. Some creative ramp design and utilization of the open area on the NE side can solve that problem.

Don't forget the future improvements of AZ-74 (Carefree Hwy) as an alternative that will eventually be a freeway into the northern side of Phoenix from I-11 to I-17.  That will also take a lot of truck traffic off that is heading to the more central/eastern portion of the metro area. 

Where I live which is near the Phoenix/Scottsdale border, it's almost the same distance for me to take I-10 west to 303 to 60 versus I-17 up to AZ 74 to 60.  I prefer still the 303 and 60 route but only because most of AZ 74 is only two lanes and the traffic volumes make it difficult to pass slow truck and boat traffic (because of the lake).  An AZ-74 freeway is a game changer for this.

[brad2971]

As I and others who actually live here have said numerous times:  US 60 is not going to be upgraded to a freeway.  Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.  The 1980s proposal to do that has been shot down. It is an urban highway and will remain so.

I've lived in Arizona before, so don't use that trump card on me. Again, US-60 is not an urban surface street at Loop 303. It's a rural highway on the edge of the Phoenix metro. From Loop 303 going Northwest US-60 would be fairly easy to convert into a freeway. It's not like I'm asking for something insane like converting US-60 to a freeway inside the 101 loop.

I drive that route a couple times a year.  I-11 will get the trucks off of US 60, other than local business, leaving 60 for car traffic.  It would be very nice to upgrade the 60/303 bottleneck... er, I mean... interchange, but it's too built-up in that area now.  Lots of homes would have to be demolished, and that just isn't going to happen.

Not all trucks using US-60 are headed to/from Mexico. Phoenix is a big enough magnet on its own for commercial truck traffic. Commercial and personal vehicles driving between Phoenix and Vegas are going to take the most direct route to get from point A to point B. And that's US-60. This weird concept of I-11 might shave off some long distance truck traffic, but it's not going to do much to ease overall existing traffic levels on US-60/Grand Ave. Those traffic levels are just going to keep getting worse despite what ever convenience I-11 provides to other people driving clear on the other side of the White Tank Mountains.

As for the interchange with Loop 303 and US-60, there is enough room to build an off-center directional stack interchange without taking any existing properties. The existing half cloverleaf interchange takes a pretty big footprint on its own. The SE corner is the only problem. Some creative ramp design and utilization of the open area on the NE side can solve that problem.

I do think they should have split the difference and routed it on 60-303. But anything inside of 303 on 60 is preposterous in terms of expense, political capital and pollution impacts on neighborhoods.

ADOT could end at least a portion of that future freeway threat by relinquishing the inner portion between 101 and I-17 to Peoria, Glendale, and Phoenix. All three cities could afford to take their respective portion of US60/Grand Ave, and ADOT could terminate US60 at a more sensible place like the I-10/Superstition Freeway interchange.

[KeithE4Phx]

ADOT could end at least a portion of that future freeway threat by relinquishing the inner portion between 101 and I-17 to Peoria, Glendale, and Phoenix. All three cities could afford to take their respective portion of US60/Grand Ave, and ADOT could terminate US60 at a more sensible place like the I-10/Superstition Freeway interchange.

We're getting perilously close to Fictional Highways, but the portion of US 60 between the 303 and I-10 (near the Colorado River) is still a viable state highway.  If US 60 were to end at I-10 in Tempe, a new number would have to be assigned  (AZ 60?).

[Occidental Tourist]

All opinions aside, a corridor was approved last month including the extension to Tucson and Nogales:
https://www.pinalcentral.com/maricopa_monitor/news/final-route-for-the-proposed-i-11-selected/article_fc8bca2a-4811-56ad-bb03-3b1a0afcd390.html

So if I read the approved routing correctly, somewhere south of Casa Grande on I-10, you'll be at a junction where you have the option of taking I-10 west or I-11 north. If you choose I-10 west, you'll travel the northern route away from the junction and if you choose I-11 north, you'll take the western route away from the junction. Am I missing something?

[DenverBrian]

If this goes through, wouldn't 1-19 be re-signed to I-11? Absolutely no need to duplex such an interstate.

[Bobby5280]

There is zero need to have two Interstate highways going down to Nogales. Out of all the pork barrel proposals for highways being floated nationwide, that's one of the most needless. Existing I-19 is 2 lanes in each direction nearly its entire length. It could be widened from a 2x2 to a 4x4 or even 5x5 configuration within the existing ROW.

I could maybe see I-11 being extended down to the Tucson area in part as a relief route for I-10 and bypass around Tucson to I-19. But since there is generally so much anti-roads opposition in the Tucson area why even bother with any of that. Let Tucson suffocate in stoplight hell as their city continues to sprawl. Divert the highway funding to more worthwhile efforts.

[vdeane]

There is zero need to have two Interstate highways going down to Nogales. Out of all the pork barrel proposals for highways being floated nationwide, that's one of the most needless. Existing I-19 is 2 lanes in each direction nearly its entire length. It could be widened from a 2x2 to a 4x4 or even 5x5 configuration within the existing ROW.

I could maybe see I-11 being extended down to the Tucson area in part as a relief route for I-10 and bypass around Tucson to I-19. But since there is generally so much anti-roads opposition in the Tucson area why even bother with any of that. Let Tucson suffocate in stoplight hell as their city continues to sprawl. Divert the highway funding to more worthwhile efforts.

Perhaps Arizona saw the New Jersey Turnpike, decided it wanted its own, and plans to make I-19 2x2x2x2 with one set of lanes as I-19 and the other as I-11?

[machias]

There is zero need to have two Interstate highways going down to Nogales. Out of all the pork barrel proposals for highways being floated nationwide, that's one of the most needless. Existing I-19 is 2 lanes in each direction nearly its entire length. It could be widened from a 2x2 to a 4x4 or even 5x5 configuration within the existing ROW.

I could maybe see I-11 being extended down to the Tucson area in part as a relief route for I-10 and bypass around Tucson to I-19. But since there is generally so much anti-roads opposition in the Tucson area why even bother with any of that. Let Tucson suffocate in stoplight hell as their city continues to sprawl. Divert the highway funding to more worthwhile efforts.

As a Tucson resident, it doesn't really feel like stoplight hell here. Things move fairly well in my experience. That being said, a relief route would be nice to have.

[Bobby5280]

Perhaps Arizona saw the New Jersey Turnpike, decided it wanted its own, and plans to make I-19 2x2x2x2 with one set of lanes as I-19 and the other as I-11?

The difference with the New Jersey Turnpike is it dodges around a highly populous complex of cities (Philadelphia, Trenton, Camden, etc) from Wilmington on the way to the NYC area. The last time I checked there isn't any giant metro between Tucson and Nogales to bypass.

Additionally, the New Jersey Turnpike served as a surrogate "thru" version of I-95 because the signed version of I-95 going into Philadelphia came to a dead end in Trenton. Now there is a halfway decent connection to make I-95 a technically "thru" route. Yet the New Jersey Turnpike is a much more straight shot.

If people in AZ are planning on making I-19 and I-11 twinned into some 2x2x2x2 thing they must be smoking some special kind of "rope." A couple of the massive road improvement projects in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex ended up in 2x2x2x2 configurations and those SUCK.

[aboges26]

The I-11 proposal/plan in Arizona is nothing about a Phoenix or Tucson bypass for the local/regional population like AZDOT or other public officials are trying to sell it.  For everyone saying "we were told only Phoenix to Vegas", you need to Google "Canamex Corridor".  Look for the maps and research when the corridor was first PUBLICLY proposed.  I-11 from Phoenix to Vegas was the bait and switch for a new superhighway/interstate to further facilitate the overall NAFTA agenda.  McCain and other politicians have been planning since the 90s to have an interstate run from Nogales to Vegas to connect to I-15 and ultimately to the Canadian border for corporate interests.

When you see the overall picture, the Record of Decision makes perfect sense: I-11 is not about being a new part of the interstate system connecting two close large metropolitan areas, but a NAFTA superhighway connecting Mexico and Canada.  The NAFTA name has since gone by the wayside but the intent is still the same by globalist aligned politicians in BOTH parties who play us like fiddles.  We can only trust politicians to lie to us and serve the interests that make them money, and we need to understand that this extends to transportation planning along with nearly every facet of our lives.  If you think this is opinion, then you are not paying attention and need to wake up.

I-11 running from Vegas to Reno is merely a tangent by NVDOT and not necessarily a part of the overall globalist agenda.  At the time of the Canamex Corridor proposal the plan by the globalists was the integration of the North American countries to form the North American Union, and connecting superhighways were a major part of this serving future business interests via paid off politicians pushing things like this in the interim.  We can debate whether this is still a plan that is no longer publicly talked about, but when we see governments across the world working in lockstep to overblow COVID in order to take away our rights for assumed ends, we should be able to see the real enemy and put our political differences aside to figure out what the hell is really going on. 

Back on track, it is logical that if the full proposal comes to fruition in Pima County then the I-19 designation would be dropped and we will likely see the only 3DI in Arizona for the remainder of I-19 running from I-11 to I-10.  If this happens the metric system signage would likely be dropped with the resigning to I-11.  In doing so, I-11 would connect to the most access-controlled / superhighway route to Mexico City from the western US, and THAT is the whole point of the ROD routing.

[sprjus4]

^ There's still little need south of Phoenix / I-10 west of the city. I-10 and I-19 already exist, and will be / can be expanded to 6-8 lanes to accommodate growing volumes. There's no need to have two parallel highways.

Despite what you say, the main utility of I-11 will still be Vegas to Phoenix traffic.

[CoolAngrybirdsrio4]

There is zero need to have two Interstate highways going down to Nogales. Out of all the pork barrel proposals for highways being floated nationwide, that's one of the most needless. Existing I-19 is 2 lanes in each direction nearly its entire length. It could be widened from a 2x2 to a 4x4 or even 5x5 configuration within the existing ROW.

I could maybe see I-11 being extended down to the Tucson area in part as a relief route for I-10 and bypass around Tucson to I-19. But since there is generally so much anti-roads opposition in the Tucson area why even bother with any of that. Let Tucson suffocate in stoplight hell as their city continues to sprawl. Divert the highway funding to more worthwhile efforts.

I am not sure why Interstate 11 is going to Nogales though despite it being a part of the CANAMEX corridor. In fact I'd rather prefer one to Lukeville, although there is no need for such.